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July 17, 2011

Rabbi During The Leiby Kletzky Search: Call Rabbis, Not Police, To Report Child Abuse

Agudah logo red Speaking Tuesday night in Flatbush in the Bostoner beit midrash at the Irgun Shiurei Torah conference as the search for Leiby Kletzky was in full frantic swing, the vice-president of Agudath Israel of America's Moetzet Gedolei HaTorah, Supreme Council of Rabbinic Sages, Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetzky says child sexual abuse must be reported to rabbis, not police.

Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetzky

Rabbi Shmuel Kamentizky, the vice-president of Agudath Israel of America's Moetzet Gedolei HaTorah, Supreme Council of Rabbinic Sages, is considered to the the most favorable of all the senior Agudah rabbis to child sexual abuse victims. Kamenetsky (sometimes spelled Kamenetzky) is the rosh yeshiva of the Yeshiva Gedola of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

He says child sexual abuse must be reported to a "rov" (rabbi) and the rabbi(s) will investigate and determine if police should be called. He said this as the search for Leiby Kletzky was in it's second day, with thousands of volunteers combing Borough Park and neighboring areas for the 8-year-old boy. But Leiby Kletzky had already been murdered and dismembered by Levi Aron, a known stalker of young boys, who abducted him off a Borough Park street corner late Monday afternoon.

Rabbi Kamenetzky was repeating Agudath Israel of America's official policy banning ultra-Orthodox Jews from reporting child sexual abuse to police.

On the bright side, Rabbi Kamenetzky, surprised that rabbis and community activists have allegedly threatened victims and witnesses forcing them to remain silent, agreed that these rabbis and activists would also be endangering children. But like his ruling regarding child sexual abusers, Rabbi Kamenetzky wants those threatened victims to report the threats to rabbis, not police.

This clip runs 4 minutes. Please click the gray bar to listen:

R' Shmuel Kaminetsky_About Molesters

Related Post: Agudath Israel of America Tells Mandated Reporters They Cannot Report Suspected Child Sexual Abuse To Police – They Must Instead Report The Suspected Crimes To Rabbis.

[Hat Tip: Nuchem.]

 

Comments

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What crap is this fool saying
not to be hasty in reporting
to the police first.

after dear leibby....and he's STILL saying that?
unbelievable..............

what does he think people are tottal idiots in the past thats what they did went to rabbis untold times and it was an exercise in futility they think they the rebbe can fool all of the people all of the time this is too much no shame no morals vus toigt er of der vert what is this rabbi good for in this world? please someone answer me

how many more leibys do we have to sacrifice for those rabbis to finally get it


thanks shmyara for this report

I like how the question was asked. The questioner implied that those who protect the perpetrators and harass and threaten the victims should also prosecuted.

I agree. Not only should those hurting children be arrested, but those protecting the abusers should also be arrested for conspiracy

Honestly, I think the rav just doesn't understand the psychological makeup of pedophiles. This is an urge that never goes away....just as an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic. To think that a few rabbis or even a committee of Jews formed to keep tabs on "persons of interest" in the community will be able to adequately monitor a pedophile is very naive. Sadly, more children will be hurt or killed if this attitude continues. I really don't think that the rabbis who try and police these misanthropes are bad people - they simply lack information and underestimate the magnitude of the behavior and urges of these individuals.

lack- but they use their position to further a failed policy and that is rishes they should not talk when they are ignorant and they arent because if they are then they are evil to see no evil hear no evil doesn not make a good rabbi

I hope we don't have to wait for reform until victims start suing Agudath Israel and the other enablers like the victims of priestly pedophiles have sued the Catholic Church.

not sure whats bugging you...he acknowledge the mandated reporter problem rabbis have...its just party line he is the best f them all

this is the problem. the alchoholic can be 'cured' but only by admitting they are powerless and going to a recovery plan.

Is there 12 step groups for pedophiles? I am not sure.

THese guys have to have the same type of groups.

My question is was this murderer really gay but couldn't face it being that the community does not allow for a gay person,
and it came out this way?

Because you need to get to the root of the problem. you can put all kinds of alarms in place the pedophile will always find a way.

We must treat the source of the character defect.

Why does everyone always pick on the yidden? The irish go to their priests first and the colored have a saying "dont snich". So how is this different? Everyone does the same. What do we need to do now? Pray harder to Hashem to send us Moshiach NOW!

powerless over alchohol that is.

I know a sex addict for example,
that is not allowed to be alone with the internet.This is a person who brought shame and scandal to his family and children.

They have to take action. He doesn't go out much in the summertime when clothes are more revealing. His is really trying to succeed.

If people like Simon Taub wouldn't throw his money around, molestersw ould be in prison where they belong. Instead, we have innocents like Kelner being framed for the sole purpose of Simon Taub humoring the system.

W$M, community behavious, no matter how reprehensible is a social issue. Making it official policy by persons in religious and political important positions is criminal.

When a Preist, Rabbi, Politician, Doctor, or any other person in a position of professional, legal, or moral authority tries to co-opt the legal system in such a way should be prosecuted for abeting, or even conspiracy after the fact if they do anything material to sheild guilty parties.

There is a deeper problem here, however. Being in a position where are the primary recipient of information in your community that gives you power over that community by either inside information, or information that may be useful for blackmail makes a person loathe to give up that kind of power.

I don't think you folks understand the haredi mentality... these people are sometimes so thick and daft that they consult their rabbis on everything: from what to serve for dinner to when to service their wives. It stands to reason that such intellectually challenged people would need a fortiori to consult their rabbi(s) about whether to and how to proceed when confronted with a potentially reportable instance of child endangerment. They need their rabbis like blind people need their guide dogs: they are utterly and totally incapable of functioning in society without the constant guidance of their rabbis.

So I really can't see what bothers people here that a handicapped person, as haredim have in effect become, need the assistance of their rabbis in determining whether to perform, and actually performing, reporting activities.

I suspect most rabbis would quiz the congregant, and when it becomes evident that there is substance to the matter, would tell him or her to contact the authorities.

There is, and likely cannot be, any law in the United States that bars a person from practicing his or her religion, including posing a question about one's legal or moral obligations, to a minister of religion when a question of great public importance arises.

That this blog and its authors invariably twist every manifestation of religious practice into something evil and malign is really out of step with the broader nature of the American people as essentially religious in outlook and sentiment.

Posted by: A E ANDERSON | BROOKLYN, NY 11213 | July 17, 2011 at 04:50 PM

You're an ignoramus.

As you have been told MANY times by MANY different people, what haredi rabbis most often do is tell people NOT to report child sexual abuse.

Case after case after case of this obstruction of justice is documented, buy A. Engler Anderson can't process.

You either have a mental disorder or you're intentionally covering up for criminals.

Either way, you're sick.

a.e.anderson i must say you are truly insane,and that is the reason you accept insane behaviour in others.

I suspect most rabbis would quiz the congregant, and when it becomes evident that there is substance to the matter, would tell him or her to contact the authorities.

Your suspicions are 100% wrong. How many cases have the rabbis referred to the authorities? Hardly any. That is why we have this festering plague.

There is, and likely cannot be, any law in the United States that bars a person from practicing his or her religion, including posing a question about one's legal or moral obligations, to a minister of religion when a question of great public importance arises.

When that misapplication of religious law endangers the general public, then the government must step in and pass laws to protect its citizens.

That this blog and its authors invariably twist every manifestation of religious practice into something evil and malign is really out of step with the broader nature of the American people as essentially religious in outlook and sentiment.

Protecting child molesters from the law is not a religious practice. It is a perverse misapplication of the halacha of mesira. It is not only evil but is beyond evil. Your attempt at defending this stubborn stance that some of these rabbis have taken only exacerbates the situation. The rabbis of Baltimore had already declared that these cases must be handled only by the police and that rabbis are not equipped to investigate such matters. Unfortunately, certain rabbis like Rabbi Kaminetzky are insisting on pulling us backwards to the days of handling these matters internally.

Shomrim in BP admitted there are at least 15 names of neighborhoods creeps and weirdos that they keep on eye on, but will not reveal those names to the police. What are they waiting for?

the police dept. should give shomrim the ultimatum. that if shomrim will continue to hide info from the cips they will get an order from the feds to shut them down because they are simply playing with the justice system.

The Shomrim will not share their radio frequency with the police, in order to prevent cops from knowing where their calls are. It's a nice way of covering up crimes committed by frumma.

No, don't listen to him, he couldn't investigate his way out of a wet paper bag. He is in no way qualified to conduct investigations, gather evidence, or interrogate subjects. I, on the other hand, am well qualified to do all that is necessary to to ferret out of abuse and crime.
An essential component of my training has been a focus on the classic sources of investigative techniques: observation, interviewing, analysis, and marksmanship.
All of this knowledge was transmitted to me directly from the masters:

Mannix
McCloud
Cannon
Columbo
Kojak
Baretta
Quincy M.E.
Rockford Files

Inasmuch as I have watched each episode of these shows at least once, I might be overqualified. Maybe I could be put to use as a consultant.

>I suspect most rabbis would quiz the
>congregant, and when it becomes
>evident that there is substance to the
>matter, would tell him or her to
>contact the authorities.

Really? Name some examples. It's a lie.

When it comes to Agudath Israel Of America we now how many times its affiliated beis dins have reported and/or given permission to report to the police....zero.


Part of the problem is that Agudath Israel Of America talks from both sides of its mouth.

See: http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2007/02/rabbi_dovid_fei.html

July 2006 quote from the Jewish Voice:
...
In general, Rabbi [Dovid] Feinstein says, it is a good idea for would-be
accusers in the Jewish community to take their charges to a beit din
before going to the police. “If the person is found guilty, the beit
din would tell the accuser to go to the police; if the person is found
not guilty, the beit din would tell the accuser to forget it,” he
says. Asked if he knows of any instances in which a beit din referred a
case to the civil authorities, Rabbi Feinstein says he does not.
...

Which contradicts what Agudath's mouth piece says:

What the rabbi said
Jerusalem Post
January 24, 2006
Sir, - Readers of the Jewish Telegraphic Agency's recent series on clergy sexual abuse may have been misled by the report's assertion that the meaning of words spoken by a respected rabbinic authority at last year's Agudath Israel of America national convention is, as the article put it, "open to interpretation." The rabbinic authority, the article asserted, admitted "that haredim are indeed guilty of sweeping things under the carpet."
The writer of the series has acknowledged to me that he had not at the time listened to a recording of the speech.
Rabbi Salomon's words, however, could not have been clearer. He pointed out how some people like to accuse the haredi community of "sweeping things under the carpet." They are right, he went on to explain, but not in the way they mean. "Do they know how many perpetrators" of sins against others "have been dealt with?" No, he averred, because when actions are taken against individuals who have proven themselves untrustworthy, Orthodox leaders do not trumpet their actions. And even as they take what steps are necessary to protect others, he added, they also seek to protect human dignity.
Moreover, Rabbi Salomon declared that when crimes are asserted but not proven, Jews must be guided not by a mob mentality but by the Torah.
The JTA article may well be right that "several Web site and blog contributors" chose to interpret Rabbi Salomon's remarks as an admission that "haredi officials often look the other way when clergy sex abuse takes place in their midst." But that says something only about those Web site and blog contributors, and nothing at all about what Rabbi Salomon actually said.
RABBI AVI SHAFRAN
Director of Public Affairs
Agudath Israel of America

I would remind people that Rav Reuven
Feinstein (Rav Dovid Feinstein's brother) is a Presidium (board) member of Agudath Israel of America Inc. So when Agudath Israel through its spokesperson Avi Shafran says:

>"Rabbi Salomon's words, however,
>could not have been clearer. He
>pointed out how some people like
>to accuse the haredi community
>of "sweeping things under the
>carpet." They are right, he went
>on to explain, but not in the way
>they mean. "Do they know how many
>perpetrators" of sins against
>others "have been dealt with?" No,
>he averred, because when actions
>are taken against individuals who
>have proven themselves untrustworthy,
>Orthodox leaders do not trumpet their
>actions. And even as they take what
>steps are necessary to protect others,
>he added, they also seek to protect
>human dignity.

We know thanks to Rav Dovid Feinstein exactly how many child molesters "have been dealt with". ZERO, not one.

>"Asked if he knows of any
>instances in which a beit din
>referred a case to the civil
>authorities, Rabbi Feinstein says
>he does not.

And they are who we rely on to protect our children at their camps and in institutions?

Agudath Israel is distorting halacha, obstructing justice, silencing the voices of survivors of abuse and protecting the pedophiles. Yet they lie and claim the opposite.

And people are just starting to realize this. I and others have been saying this now for many years:

1) The distorted self-serving view of halacha at Sunday's Agudah conference
by Rabbi Daniel Eidensohn
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2011/05/distorted-self-serving-view-of-halacha.html
...
But perhaps his biggest failure was to [not] address the betrayal of the abuse victims by the rabbis and community and the severe psychological & religious damage this betrayal causes. It is commonly observed by those who work with off the derech children that most of these children have been abused. So yes - there is a legitimate halachic problem of how to deal with mesira - but in reality the issue of abuse is not primarily about how to preserve rabbinic authority - but how to protect our children.
...

2) http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2011/05/orthodox-social-worker-may-be-called-as-witness-against-alleged-haredi-child-abuser-judge-rules-456.html
...
But the beit din process broke down, the beit din was disbanded (leaving Kolko unsupervised), and the father of the alleged victim reported the alleged abuse to police. The victim's father was then harassed by Kolko supporters, at least one of whom is now facing criminal charges for witness tampering as a result, and Lakewood rabbis issued a proclamation against the father
...

Agudath Israel continues to mislead and lie as to its true position and how abuse is really dealt with in the community.

Are the police in New York still as ineffective as they were in the 70's and 80's when I was in yeshiva in Borough Park? Perhaps the Shom'rim are a more effective police department and the horrific outcome would have been the same whether the police were involved or not? I'm speaking out of ignorance here since I haven't returned to Brooklyn since 1986....

Effectively, once you go the rabbonim of Agudath Israel Of America Inc. the pedophile is now safe because they will give permission to go to the police because they never have and never do.

How Agudath Israel Of America Inc. Rabbonim really deals with pedophiles. They protect pedophiles and silence the children that are abused and their families. They prevent the reporting of crimes to the police and obstruct justice. You don't have to take my word. This is from Rav Dovid Feinstein's interview in a July 2006 interview with the Jewish Voice and Opinion on reporting abuse to the authorities (note Rav Dovid Cohen recruited Rav Dovid Feinstein to the 2nd bais din on the Rabbi Hafner sexual abuse case):
...
Rav Dovid Feinstein of the Lower East Side, in whose office the beit din was held, says the rabbinic court was called at the behest of the (removed) family who, somewhat belatedly, decided they wanted halachic approbation to call in the secular authorities. In fact, according to Rabbi Feinstein, this was not the first beit din that was called to adjudicate the matter. He maintains that, before going to the police in the first place, the (removed) had asked a beit din to decide what they should do. “When the beit din ruled that the family should not go to the police, the family decided the beit din was biased against them, and allowed the secular courts to take over,” says Rav Feinstein, who did not participate in that first beit din.

Personally Recruited
According to Rabbi Rottenberg, the second beit din consisted of five rabbis who were all personally recruited by Rabbi Cohen.
“He wanted to find the five best rabbis he could to sit on this beit din, because he wanted no arguments about the ruling,” says Rabbi Rottenberg, adding that when he hesitated to join, Rabbi Cohen called Rabbi Rottenberg’s parents to convince him to take part.
...
In general, Rabbi Feinstein says, it is a good idea for would-be accusers in the Jewish community to take their charges to a beit din before going to the police. “If the person is found guilty, the beit din would tell the accuser to go to the police; if the person is found not guilty, the beit din would tell the accuser to forget it,” he says. Asked if he knows of any instances in which a beit din referred a case to the civil authorities, Rabbi Feinstein says he does not.
...

Before we all 'flip out' at what THIS Rav says, I would like to point out that there are OTHER Rabbanim who disagree. While there is nothing wrong with questioning THIS Rav's rationale, there seems to be nothing wrong with following the Psak of Rabbonim who actually seem to "get it"- unless you are a Talmid of Phily, I don't why anyone would feel the need to follow his Psak, over another Posek who disagrees.

It should be "because they will NEVER give permission" in the first line of my last post.

Any Agudath defenders or apologists can't get around this. Rav Feinstein is clear in his interview. He knows of NO instance in which a beit din (Agudath Israel affiliated) referred a case to the civil authorities.

Not one. None. Zero.

Anyone claiming differently has either failed to become informed on this issue or is lying to protect Daas Torah.

efore we all 'flip out' at what THIS Rav says, I would like to point out that there are OTHER Rabbanim who disagree. While there is nothing wrong with questioning THIS Rav's rationale, there seems to be nothing wrong with following the Psak of Rabbonim who actually seem to "get it"- unless you are a Talmid of Phily, I don't why anyone would feel the need to follow his Psak, over another Posek who disagrees.

Posted by: Common Sense | July 17, 2011 at 05:45 PM

Because, as I CLEARLY wrote in my post, Agudath Israel of America's official position is the same – calls rabbis, not cops.

Does this clear it up for you?

Shmarya-

I read Fred Rosners book on Shabbos which clearly stated that Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach states one should call the authorities in cases of abuse. This is in direct disagreement with the Agudah and Reb Shmuel. I don't think ANYONE thinks Reb Shmuel is a bigger halachik authority than R. Shlomo Zalman, so again, as far as I'm concerned, the Psak of Agudah is overruled by a bigger Posek.

>lying to protect Daas Torah.

Lying to protect what they wrongly believe is Daas Torah.

Daas Torah is about protecting the small and vulnerable something Agudath Israel Of America Inc. has not done and does not do when it comes to protecting survivors of abuse.

They are the silencers of abuse survivors. They prevent the reporting of abusers to police and their "investigations" contaminate and compromise any potential future investigation by the experts, police and social workers.

I read Fred Rosners book on Shabbos which clearly stated that Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach states one should call the authorities in cases of abuse. This is in direct disagreement with the Agudah and Reb Shmuel. I don't think ANYONE thinks Reb Shmuel is a bigger halachik authority than R. Shlomo Zalman, so again, as far as I'm concerned, the Psak of Agudah is overruled by a bigger Posek.

Posted by: Common Sense | July 17, 2011 at 05:58 PM

It doesn't matter what YOU think – it matters what American haredim think.

Inasmuch as I have watched each episode of these shows at least once, I might be overqualified. Maybe I could be put to use as a consultant.

Posted by: Nigritude Ultramarine | July 17, 2011 at 05:32 PM
======================================

I like your style!

OK guys. Here are the facts. I know of several cases personally where permission was given to go to the police. Period.
The reason the rabbis are so firm about reporting to a halachic authority is because they recognize that any such accusation will destroy the accuseds life. Period. This is the easiest baseless accusation to make up - as revenge or whatever encourages the "victim" and literally destorys a person life. If someone is a too strict with a kid he is carpooling home...perhaps he insists the boy put on his seatbelt ..the kid can just go home and say "so and so touched me" and his word is gold. Parents are told to discuss the issue with their kids so the kids all now know how serious an issue it is and enough details to make it plausible. ( I completely agree with talking to kids about abuse- do not get me wrong..but it does raise the danger of "planting ideas")
Therefore, by going to a halachic authority 1st who can investigate more discreetly, these cases are screened out. For every true case of abuse, there are many that are fabricated (against too strict rebbeim, dueling business partners etc)
And dont be moronic. The rabbis know exactly whats going on and definitely do report cases.
Sorry to burst your bubbles

>OK guys. Here are the facts. I know of
>several cases personally where
>permission was given to go to the
>police.

Really?

Give us specifics.

Rav Feinstein was clear in his interview a few years ago:

...
In general, Rabbi Feinstein says, it is a good idea for would-be accusers in the Jewish community to take their charges to a beit din before going to the police. “If the person is found guilty, the beit din would tell the accuser to go to the police; if the person is found not guilty, the beit din would tell the accuser to forget it,” he says. Asked if he knows of any instances in which a beit din referred a case to the civil authorities, Rabbi Feinstein says he does not.
...

Posted by: truth be told | July 17, 2011 at 06:09 PM

Please.

We know what cases are being prosecuted, who has been arrested and much more.

And those cases prove that haredi rabbis are NOT referring cases to police.

We can list cases: Rabbi Yehuda Kolko, his nephew, others, where haredi rabbis repeatedly forbade reporting to police.

The only known case where a haredi rabbi agreed to report to police happened a month ago.

Haredi rabbis are not qualified to investigate claims of sexual abuse.

Their track record is horrible.

Hundreds of children have been molested because of them.

And you are delusional.

Truth Be Told-
That would work if the rabbonim actually have a strong reputation for reporting all criminals. How many cover ups have there been?? As such, the same people (so called leaders) who have protected abusers are also the ones deciding who to report or not. Until they establish a positive track record, and call out ALL abusers, the trust is broken. This is the issue we are having. If they never protected or covered up, no one would have issue with seeking them out first.

Shmarya, their track record is not just horrible. It is also clear. Not one case referred to the police, not one.

Not my words. The words of Rav Feinstein.

And to my knowledge he has never retracted or stated anything contrary to his Jewish Voice and Opinion interview.

What basis is there for consulting with a rabbi before reporting a crime against children to the authorities? The rabbonim have no expertise in these matters.

Their involvement with these matters has been limited to protecting offenders and intimidating victims.

Its high time people like Harav Shmuel were arrested and charged with obstruction of justice. He and his Moetzes buddies will change their tune but quick.

Besides the name calling, no one responded to the primary theme of my post. The fact is that cases of abuse have been made up right and left . Shmarya - I know it sounds very exciting for your crusade of haredi bashing to say hundreds of kids have been abused but that is nonsense.
DOnt tell me I am delusional> i have been in the system and know more than you. Period. You are so overly consumed with your hatred that you are completely handicapped from seeing the facts. Here we go- let me hear how I am narrow and closed and blind...you can let that all loose..but like I said I went through many years of the system. you didnt

>The rabbonim have no expertise in
>these matters.

How could they?

No Agudath Israel Of America Inc. beis din has ever referred even one case to the police? What experience could they have?

People look at the facts. Stop the speculation and make believe.

Rav Feinstein is clear not one case referred to the police. Zero.

I guess then one must ask the Rabbis to call the police if they are informed about sexual abuse! The lay people may be too afraid to go to the police even if they are told by the Rabbis to go to the police. The time delay between people calling the police directly or speaking to the Rabbi and having him call the police would be a delay of less than an hour. Remember we are speaking about a set of people who go to their Rabbis for many questions involving all aspects of their lives.

Given the audio comments of the president of Agudath Israel of America's Moetzet Gedolei HaTorah, Supreme Council of Rabbinic Sages, Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetzky and Rav Feinstein's statements it should be clear that no one has less experience with matters of abuse than Agudath Israel Of America Inc. and its rabbonim. Except those trying to spin for Agudath Israel Of America Inc. in the comments here.

Rav Kamenetzky is not aware that there are Rabbonim who intimidate and silence survivors of abuse??? Perhaps he should read the public RCA Lanner report or research the Kolko cases before he opens his mouth and exposes his ignorance.

What a complete disgrace.

i 100% agree that a molester should not only go to jail but the victim or victims should be given the right to castrate however levi aaron was unknown pedafilla dont see how this hurt the case??

meaning this speach has nothing to do with the story

>I guess then one must ask the Rabbis
>to call the police if they are
>informed about sexual abuse! The lay
>people may be too afraid to go to the
>police even if they are told by the
>Rabbis to go to the police. The time
>delay between people calling the
>police directly or speaking to the
>Rabbi and having him call the police
>would be a delay of less than an hour.
>Remember we are speaking about a set >of people who go to their Rabbis for >many questions involving all aspects
>of their lives.

One hour?

Leah, you are as uninformed as Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetzky.

Agudath Israel Of America Inc. has never had any of its beis din's forward one case to the police. Zero.

That's a fairly long one hour. Where did you come up with that fairy tale?

Read the quote above from Rav Feinstein and try to process that. Can anyone here actually process facts instead of making up facts and scenarios that are devoid of any basis in reality?

I'm sure Leah you are a very nice person you just can't be bothered to do any research.

Truth be Told,

You know of many cases involving false accusations. Interesting that they aren't known to the public.

In fact, other than in custody disputes, false accusations of sexual abuse within our community are unheard of.

This "false accusation" canard falls into the category of "ain raglayim l'dovor." It is simply baseless and used as an excuse to cover-up unspeakable crimes against children.

And as a means for people like Harav Shmuel to protect predators.

Besides the name calling, no one responded to the primary theme of my post. The fact is that cases of abuse have been made up right and left . Shmarya - I know it sounds very exciting for your crusade of haredi bashing to say hundreds of kids have been abused but that is nonsense.
DOnt tell me I am delusional> i have been in the system and know more than you. Period. You are so overly consumed with your hatred that you are completely handicapped from seeing the facts. Here we go- let me hear how I am narrow and closed and blind...you can let that all loose..but like I said I went through many years of the system. you didnt

Posted by: truth be told | July 17, 2011 at 06:29 PM

About 1% of abuse cases are false.

What happens in child custody cases in divorce court is another matter.

But DAs are very careful bringing cases of child sexual abuse to court because they are very difficult.

And none of this changes the FACT that rabbis are not trained to do forensic child sexual abuse investigations and they are wholly unsuited to judge cases related to child sexual abuse.

Hundreds of children HAVE been molested because these rabbis screwed up.

That you ignore this, that you lie to cover it up, just shows what a sick, evil person you are.

>You know of many cases involving false
>accusations. Interesting that they
>aren't known to the public.

There are extremely few cases of false allegations. Of the few that I've researched only a few come to mind that involved convictions in regard to the false allegations and they involved false allegations in divorce cases in New York in which Judge Garson was involved. A Rabbi and his daughter were convicted and several husbands were also implicated. This scam was mainly focused on the Orthodox community. Most of the false allegations involved payoffs by husbands or well to do father-in-laws to the Judge and involved other court officials. Judge Garson was convicted.

How do you know there are only a few case??? How do you know percentages?? The fact is that these cases are often very difficult if not impossible to prove yet the accused are always guilty. The verdict is always guilty until proven innocent
The cases of false allegations arent known to the public precisely because the families did not immediately go to the police but rather took the time to actually talk to their child and look into the allegations before runing anothers life
Thanks SHmarya for the name calling.. You are a classic.

just curious all u people commenting what would u do if u were wrongfully accused by a neighbor, your childs friend......... and the police were brought in right away how would you feel? I think your comments would be a bit different.

dave- youre a big fool if someone would be wrongly accused and he didnt do anything why in the world should he feel bad he knows he is innocent and an innocent person does not fear anything especially a lie, what a stupid piece you wrote

Dave- the baseless response is "hundreds of kids were molested without any charges"
Fact is any teacher or better yet one on one lets say tutor is at huge risk because the kids can say whatever they want. Parents go to police Even if police conclude that there is insufficient evidence, the guys name has been dragged through the mud and you havepeople like shmarya calling for his resignation. Better yet, if the kid is proven false (say said teacher is out of town during supposed abuse) the papers fail to publish these facts,..and if they do its buried on page 9 ...Shmarya has been in every bedroom or classroom and knows better then us all what really goes on..
I want to reiterate there are major issues...we need to work it out...but its not as simple as shmarya would like to make it seem.

Agudath Israel Of America Inc. has never had any of its beis din's forward one case to the police. Zero.

That's a fairly long one hour. Where did you come up with that fairy tale?

What I said, or thought that I said, was that it is high time for the rabayim to call the police when they hear that someone is sexually abusing someone else. Then even if someone chooses to speak to their rebbe first the delay should not be significant.

You may say it will never happen - could be - but I may hope that it will happen.

As John Lennon would say "You may say I'm a dreamer ..."

It's a good idea to refer a 21st century problem to someone steeped in the 7th and 15th centuries. They'll come through big time.

Truth be Told,

since they where referred to the police it soi public knowledge so please name them or at least the beis dein who said one may go..
the comment about jying made up is ludicrous for a few reason.

1 in the frum community the victim and their family is harassed look down upon and can affect a shidduch for all their children

That in in slve is a reason no one would just make it up the repercussion of the accusation is too severe

2 the person who just makes it up is not the type who will go to a beis dein anyway

This is why Siterdom is crashing down! HAshem has had enough of these idiots parading around as the spokesmen for him. LONG LIVE THE BAATH JEWISH ALLEGIANCE !

Dave- the baseless response is "hundreds of kids were molested without any charges"

Idiot.

Yehuda Kolko alone has close to 100 victims.

You're a sick, disgusting person.

As for how many were reported to police, that would be pretty close to zero.

Not one case leading to a conviction was reported by rabbis, but every case reported by advocates and victims was opposed by rabbis.

Process that.

truth be told- youre a real mental case you are a very very disturbed person what nonsense youre writing i havent see one case that a child made up in hundreds of cases what in the world are you saying you cant be sane the sooner you get help the better youre a tottal idiot and a deranged fool.

shmaria,all those rabbis are talking crap.they dont want their dirty laundry washed in public.yes,there are jewish frum pedofiles u can find them in the mikvas,yes,there are sexual deviant orthodox jews,yes,there are homos in the orthodox jewery,yes,there are even thieves,mafiosos,amongst the frum jews,go and try to get colorful clothing in boro park.all are dressed in black,try to buy chickens not from hechsher of satmar,it is all one big mafiosos,you must buy their clothing whether it is 120 degrees farnheit or 20 degrees,only black?why? their sick brains dictates them to distort their females body silluets,so no wonder they are sexually deprived men,who seek sex from all 2 legged naked beauties,just because their sickos of rabbis who own the fabric factories do dictate the small stores owners what to sell.well,remember,the pupa rebbe.shame on them.they forgot the gemara where rabbi yishmael cried "oi bnos israel naot hen ela shehaaniut menavaltan".and those sickos in williamsburg or lakewood are simply amaratzim if they forgot this specific gemara,

this moron is no rahboy!
he is a sub- תוֹלַעַת וְלֹא-אִישׁ

does anyone know if kolko to up permanent residence in lakewood?

Question - Is anyone able to confirm the number of predetors that the Rabbonim have reported to the the police over the years.

We know of dozens of cases where families have gone to the Rabbonim

I don't know of any casethen forwarded to the police - can anyone confirm

This idea that by filtering these cases through the rabbis will prevent false accusations from reaching the police is totally ridiculous. If someone is hellbent on destroying another person that he would fabricate a story of sexual abuse, do you think that person/family is waiting for a rabbi's permission to go to the police? I can just picture this, "Rabbi, can you please tell me, in your divine wisdom, is my son a vicious fabricator?" Who in the world would want to label himself a victim of abuse, a tag which will follow him for the rest of his life? That is why the overwhelming majority of cases are never reported. Parents of victims are so worried about their childrens' shidduchim prospects, they will not allow them to be labeled as damaged goods. This idea that the rabbis are protecting the accused from vicious fabricators is a myth that needs to be debunked once and for all. Rabbi Kaminetzky and others need to heed the words of the Baltimore rabbonim and his colleague Rabbi Perlow who stated publicly that they need to do a "Tikkun Haovar", a remedy for past mistakes. Stop pushing this failed policy of handling these matters internally. It has been a miserable failure which has only led to death, destruction and shattered lives.

Why the mikve for men?
There is no halakhic obligation whatsoever!
All they have to do, is shower, yes simple shower with 9 kov of water.
Soap is allowed!
Don't they see the huge mikhsholim they place in front of thousands of people?
What with ולפני עוור?
Bunch of reckless moronic chosidim sheuytim!
I am not yet addressing the physical filth and unhygienic conditions!
Weren't they taught that חמירא סכנתא מאיסורא ? Bunch of filthy idiots! Feh!

Truth be Told,

You have no understanding of how a police investigation works. Nor do you comprehend the training and expertise required to discern truth from fiction. This is what the police do best and the NYPD is one of the most highly respected police forces in the world.

On the other hand, rabbis. Insular and ignorant of most things secular in nature. Rife with conflicts of interest and conveniently ignorant of halacha as it relates to reporting predators to the police.

If G-d forbid your child was sexually abused by his rebbe in yeshiva would you ask the school's rosh yeshiva or your rabbi before reporting to the police? If yes, what would you do if they told you not to report?

Yosef ben Matitya- one fool creates a thousand other fools its like mind control going to mikva i wrote before that at the age of 10 i was molested in the mikva by non other then our hailige shoihet and moel he was over 60 and this happened over 50 years ago and in europe not here in usa so you can imagine he was the only hassidishe man therei never told anyone only this past 3 years i started to tell about it those days we went to the mikva because we didnt have indoor plumming .

Posted by: Fact | July 17, 2011 at 08:22 PM

true I know a prosecutor who deal with these case in Brooklyn

1. this is one crime that they are very careful before they make an arrest they know that the mere accusation can ruin a person
2. has a stack of files of open cases that cab be closed but the victims after making a complaint stop cooperating because of the rebbies


>Question - Is anyone able to confirm
>the number of predetors that the
>Rabbonim have reported to the the
>police over the years.
>
>We know of dozens of cases where
>families have gone to the Rabbonim
>
>I don't know of any casethen forwarded
>to the police - can anyone confirm

I keep referring to Rav Feinstein's interview where he confirmed the number. It is zero that is how many predators Agudath Israel Of America Inc. has allowed to be reported to police.

Zero. None.

>What I said, or thought that I said,
>was that it is high time for the
>rabayim to call the police when they
>hear that someone is sexually abusing >someone else. Then even if someone
>chooses to speak to their rebbe first
>the delay should not be significant.

What are you talking about?

Agudath Israel Of America Inc. is clear in its position. You report to your Rabbi and they convene a bais din to hear the case which can take weeks if not months and then they tell you that you can't report to the police.

In the meantime nothing stops the abuser from continuing to molest and intimidate and silence potential witnesses.

And in the meantime, all the evidence and witnesses are compromised and any future investigation by the police will likely be contaminated.

>You may say it will never happen -
>could be - but I may hope that it will
>happen.
>
>As John Lennon would say "You may say
>I'm a dreamer ..."

You may be a dreamer but Agudath Israel Of America Inc. continues to protect the abusers and use the bais din system to silence the children. Your dreams are meaningless in the face of reality.

Anyone else wonder how a gadol of R' Shmuel Kamenetsky's stature can have no idea that there is intimidation and bullying of victims involved in these cases? Isn't a gadol supposed to be clued into the dynamics of the community?

Some interesting materials posted as a result of the current Australian Orthodox abuse scandal:

http://pitputim.wordpress.com/2011/07/14/piskei-din-from-%d7%9e%d7%95%d7%94%d7%a8-%d7%94%d7%a8%d7%91-%d7%a9%d7%9b%d7%98%d7%a8-%d7%a9%d7%9c%d7%99%d7%98%d7%90/

Piskei Din from מוה”ר הרב שכטר שליט”א

Excerpts:
1. The מצווה of ובערת הרע מקרבך implies that there is no so-called time limit against alleged criminal activity. They must be investigated.
2. There is no איסור of חילול השם involved in re-opening and investigating something which happened in the past. On the contrary, especially when the אומות העולם do this as a matter of procedure and process, by not doing so, that of itself is a חילול השם because it gives the impression that their moral system is superior to ours.
3. There is no din of מסירה in cases of a possible public menace. The determination of what is a public menace is guided by the best possible advice from specialists in the field. Since specialists agree that recidivism is the unfortunate norm in some known categories of crime, even if the מלכות של חסד may mean that the punishment is greater than Torah Law and therefore problematic, we must submit the possible public menace to the authorities. וכל ישראל ישמעו ויראו ולא יזידון עוד.
5. On the matter of headlines on blog posts or newspaper posts which used the generic term “Charedim” and then processed to discuss a particular group within the Charedim inside the article, where that group/organisation/members have performed eg revisionism and a hiding of the truth, he said that it was a מצווה to be מוכיח those who distort the truth. He wasn’t sure whether writing “Charedim” in general in a headline and then expanding on the particular group in the body of article was an איסור. He said he would think about it further.

>Anyone else wonder how a gadol of R'
>Shmuel Kamenetsky's stature can have
>no idea that there is intimidation and
>bullying of victims involved in these
>cases? Isn't a gadol supposed to be
>clued into the dynamics of the
>community?

Either he's an idiot discussing issues he has no understanding of/hasn't bothered to research or he is a liar. Either way his words reveal that he is no Godol.

>Anyone else wonder how a gadol of R'
>Shmuel Kamenetsky's stature...

The only thing this current crop of "gedolim" care about is their own hold on power. This hierarchy of political "gedolim" is a new and terrible development in Jewish history, and their clear failure in this area signals the need for change.
Note that when it is one of their own that is guilty of such crimes, they are experts at protecting that individual (cf the case of Ben Zion Sobel) at the expense of the victims.

I did not read all the comments above. As many have already pointed out that there are many poskim that disagree with Rabbi Kamenetsky, including the posek hador (i assume Rabbi Kamenetsky would agree with that) Rav Elyashiv. I find it so intellectualy dishonest that Aguda tries to "revise" what Rav Elyshiv's opinion is by saying he did not explain was reasonable meant. "Reasonable" means just that - make a fair judgment- these fools can't make single judgement on thier own - sometimes what a godal said means just that , "reasonable"- he doesn't realize or imagine that your are so stupid that you can't decide that for yourself. I listened to the recording before finishing this post and Rav Shmuel didn't know about intimidation and he still thinks he's qualified to be a "expert" to rule if an case should be reported to the police he shows that he has very little knowledge of what is going on. I will give him credit that he has guts (or is just you know what) to reaffirm his opinion after events of last week before all the info is out in the open. If we there was ever any concern about L.A. and it was never reported because of a mesira issue I don't know how Aguda will survive Daas Torah being so wrong. The people are already crying for the rabbonim to be brave and lead them but they are not, it seems like the people will need to determine what Daas Torah is and have the rabbonim follow them.

Here is a hypothetical question:

Say a nephew of this rabbi molests... allegedly... 8 year old came home crying describing what was done to him, and some things were obviously done in the genital area, that NAY NORMAL PARENT CAN SEE.... Right... they'll tell the parents.... SHOULD THEY DARE GO TO THE POLICE THEIR CHILDREN WILL BE EXPELLED~!

So tragic he spoke a few blocks FROM YESHIVA TORAH TEMIMAH the house of Margolis and Kolko HORORS ... where THEY covered it up for 20 YEARS~~!!! DO THEY THINK WE ARE STUPID IN 2011... even the backward ARABS and backward IRISH CHRISTIANS figured it out.... & they think JEWS are stupid!!

The main reason Rabbi Kaminetsky gives for going to the rabbis rather than the police is because he feels that certain molesters don't fall into the category of criminals that need to be locked up. He thinks that there are molesters that can be referred to therapists by certain agencies (read OHEL) and they will be cured. This naive thinking, that molestation through clothing without penetration is not a crime, is what led Rabbi Kaminetsky to relocate Moshe Eiseman after he molested students in Philadelphia. Eiseman went on to molest countless others in Baltimore and the rabbis there covered up for hi as well. This misguided approach has led to hundreds upon thousands of new victims who have become scarred for life at the hands of these "mild" molesters. Had these rabbis consulted with a few psychologists, they would have learned that a victim can suffer as much psychological harm from "through clothing" molestation as one who was anally penetrated. If one listens closely to the audio, its mindboggling how he nonchalantly dismisses molestation as something that is acceptable and curable. From one side of his mouth, he is saying what a danger they pose and from the other side he is saying "sometimes it's not so bad." To trust such rabbis to make decisions as to who is dangerous and who is not puts the lives of all of our children in mortal danger. To allow known child molesters to walk freely is not only negligent and irresponsible, it is downright criminal. The lesson to be learned from the Leiby Kletzky tragedy is that that we must never allow any of these predators to have access to our children. Cover ups, sweeping under the carpet and handling these matters internally will only lead to more korbanos. It's enough already. Dayeinu! RABBIS: WAKE UP. YOU ARE DESTROYING TOO MANY INNOCENT NESHAMOS WITH YOUR STUBBORNNESS!

I wonder how many of Hashem's faithful will jump ship and DEMAND for RESIGNATIONS of all the Rabbis that allowed this to happen... Down with the Heredi Leadership!!! REGIME CHANGE IN EMINENT!

Amazing. Yeshiva Torah Temimah has cleaned up its Wikipedia page. No more mention of the sexual abuse lawsuits, Kolko or Margulies covering up.

In the entry, they have the nerve to call themselves the Harvard of yeshivas and use Bob Kolker's New York Magazine as their source.

Evil.

Oh, and Kolko has homes in both Flatbush and Lakewood.

You guys are completly missing the nuance here. He was asked if the intmidators carry the din of a "rodef". He completly deflected and referred to them as "mazikei rabim".

The catagory of rodef has an exponentially more severe halachik basis than simply being a mazik.

Someone that sideswipes his neighbors' parked car and does not leave a paper with his contact details in the windshield is a mazikei rabim.

Whoever was the moderator was asking some dificult questions but let the good Rabbi deflect and spindoctor his response.

I did not read all the comments above. As many have already pointed out that there are many poskim that disagree with Rabbi Kamenetsky, including the posek hador

This really is not true.

RYSE's position is that if there is raglayim l'davar, you can go to police.

Buthe does not define raglayim l'davar, and the rabbis close to him appear to favor Agudah's approach, which is based on rabbis deciding whether there is, in fact, raglayim l'davar.

All fine and dandy, but these PF in covering up their own footsteps, what will you do when they cut of the raglayim into a cadaver, and freeze away the DAVAR, disseminate in suitcases all over the place,huh?

Shmarya,

Come on. I guess my issue is that i believe i am and give you the same credit -are a reasonable person and would make a well informed decision. That Rav Elyashiv's handlers seem to agree with agudha does that suprise you ? Isn't Rav Elshiv's known to have said don't believe single psak in my name until you hear it from me. Nevertheless, even if Rav Elyashiv's opinion is more nuianced.. there are others that disgree with Rabbi Kamenetsky.. but don't get me started with Daas Torah.. and that you can't disagree. If we understood that this whas halachik matter and just a machlokis haposkim it would be simpler. The right wing makes it all about Daas Torah - and of courses they have a monoply on that.


Rabbi Shmuel Kamentizky isn't from Brooklyn - he's in Philly.

I am sure the rabbis in Brooklyn will modify their stance now that the whole community has been affected by the loss of Leibby.

These are smart, good people who care about each other - they will do the right thing. On Tuesday night, they were all out looking for Leibby together.

Rabbi Shmuel Kamentizky isn't from Brooklyn - he's in Philly.

I am sure the rabbis in Brooklyn will modify their stance now that the whole community has been affected by the loss of Leibby.

These are smart, good people who care about each other - they will do the right thing. On Tuesday night, they were all out looking for Leibby together.

Posted by: Creatshur | July 18, 2011 at 06:01 AM


never ever

one simple reason, how could they admit Dass Torah was in error

dass Torah is supposed to be fool proof

if they admit they erred in this issue
then das torah is fallible.

And that will open a whole can of worms

Posted by: Creatshur | July 18, 2011 at 06:01 AM


never ever

one simple reason, how could they admit Dass Torah was in error

dass Torah is supposed to be fool proof

if they admit they erred in this issue
then das torah is fallible.

And that will open a whole can of worms

Posted by: seymour | July 18, 2011 at 07:55 AM

Dave and Truth Be Told - are you two paedophiles, rapists, or covering up for someone who is? That's the only reason for someone to spout nonsense and lies about how reporting abuse and sex crimes to the police is a bad thing.

So, sex offender, or covering up for a sex offender?

Here's an archive article regarding Rabbi Shmuel Kamentizky and alleged sex offender "rabbi" Yaakov Menkin" from The Awareness Center's web page:

"Rabbi Yaakov Menken confessed to Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky that he had sexual contact with a young religious woman. At the time of the abuse this particular survivor was undergoing “spiritual counseling” by Rabbi Menken. The survivor was bearly out of her teens at the time she was sexually manipulated. Kenneth Menken was nearly in his forties. He was also a married, haredi (orthodox) rabbi."
--------------------------------

CALL TO ACTION: Stop Funding Programs Organized By Alleged Sex Offender Rabbi Yaakov Menken

December 24, 2006

In honor of the survivors of Rabbi Yaakov Menken (AKA: Ken Menken), The Awareness Center is bringing the following information to your attention. The goal is to prevent any more individual from becoming the next victim of a sexual offense.

Rabbi Yaakov Menken is the founder and director of Project Genesis, a Kiruv organization (Jewish outreach). He has put together an educational program that is funded by the Jewish Education Enhancement Projects (JEEP), which obtains its funds through the Jewish Federation of Baltimore (The Associated).

The Awareness Center, Inc. is asking that you contact both organizations and demand they stop funding programs connected to Rabbi Yaakov Menken. We are also asking that you contact those who are advertising Menken’s programs. Explain to them that they are putting unsuspecting women at risk of harm.

Rabbi Yaakov Menken confessed to Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky that he had sexual contact with a young religious woman. At the time of the abuse this particular survivor was undergoing “spiritual counseling” by Rabbi Menken. The survivor was bearly out of her teens at the time she was sexually manipulated. Kenneth Menken was nearly in his forties. He was also a married, haredi (orthodox) rabbi.

The young woman describes her experience with Menken as clergy sexual abuse (professional sexual misconduct) During a conversation with Rabbi Kaminetsky, Kenneth Menken stated the young woman “manipulated him into having sexual contact.”

Project Genesis has put together the following lecture series, which is funded by The Associated of Baltimore. Each time this program is advertised puts another unsuspecting woman at risk of harm—by being “counseled” by Rabbi Menken. Please demand that all organizations stop funding activities organized by Yaakov Menken. Also demand that newspapers and magazines refuse to advertise events connected to him. The goal is to prevent one more unsuspecting individual from becoming the next victim of a sex crime.

The Awareness Center is also asking everyone to contact the following speakers. Please help inform them of Rabbi Menken’s past history of alleged clergy sexual abuse (professional sexual misconduct). All inquires of his confession should be directed to Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky. (215) 477-1000.

Please ask Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky make a public statement regarding Rabbi Menken’s confession and require Yaakov to be in therapy with a highly qualified psychotherapist whom specializes in working with sex offenders. The Awareness Center is also asking that Ken Menken financially compensate the survivor for the pain and suffering he has caused her. Click Here: For Entire CALL FOR ACTION

Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetzky

Talmudical Yeshiva of Philadelphia

6063 Drexel Road

Philadelphia, PA 19131

Telephone: (215) 473-1212 Fax: (215) 477-5065

If you or someone you know has had similar experiences, please contact your local rape crisis center and or The Awareness Center, Inc..

This was said earlier, but I need to repeat it because there are idiots in the world who need to hear it more than once.

1 - If someone wants to ruin a person's reputation, they are not going to go to the rabbonim to ask a shaiyla about reporting abuse instead of the police. (How idiotic is that?!) Also, in all likelihood the rabbonim will say NOT to report the abuse to the police, so there is no point to go to rabbonim to ask a shaiylah about a made-up accusation!

2 - If someone wants to ruin a person's reputation, they will not tell their kid to pretend such and such a person molested them and then report it to police (which publicizes it if the accused is arrested), because it will RUIN THEIR OWN CHILD'S REPUTATION - as we all know in the frum world, once it gets out that someone was abused - they are considered to be "damaged goods" for shidduchim purposes.

3 - If someone is SO depraved as to tell their child to lie about being abused simply because they want to try to ruin someone's reputation, the police detectives are highly trained in uncovering such fraud, and it will likely never reach a point where the person being accused is arrested.

4 - And if R' Shmuel (as he is known - as if there is only ONE R' Shmuel - and that of course is "The Gadol Hador R' Shmuel Kaminetzky" of the "Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah") is surprised to hear that victims of abuse are pressured and silenced by rabbonim and other frum Jews trying to protect perpetrators of abuse, then R' Shmuel, "Gadol" status aside, has NO business voicing his ignorant opinion on this subject which is such a vital issue in the lives of frum families today.

(Idiot!)

I hope someone who was abused has the guts to sue the Agudah or these Gedolim for these irresponsible and questionably criminal public statements.

there are also many times when the crime is not punished ... a friend of my daughter's told her therapist that her father had abused her ... only to be told that she had to officially press charges and reveal this in court ... she refused and he was never charged because the young woman refused to testify in court ... it takes a great deal of courage for a child to confront and reveal an abuser ... especially a family member ... publicly and in a secular court ... dealing with this in the discretion of a beis din might sound like protecting the perp but in reality it relieves the victim from the public shame that the secular courts cannot ... my daughter's friend said that if she was able to have this solved in a rabbinic court ... where they would surely have prohibited the father from coming in contact with the daughter ... and possibly give this over to law enforcement after ... she would have felt more comfortable coming forward ...

ddd

serial killers and child molesters are not afraid of RABBIS. they are afraid of being locked up or hurt-thats why the only authority they can "respect" is the prison - since the bet din and jewish community cannot impose such a punishment this idea of going to rabbis is fruitless-they have no authority over a psycho path; and in regards to the claims that all chareidi rabbis will advise you to go to the police- INCORRECT! I personally know more than ni can count on my hand-boys who were molested as youngsters in yeshiva and never advised to report it and it was swept under the rug...the rabbis are happy to sweep a few innocents under the rug for a greater cause -the whole of the community and their reputation as perfect jews. How can we blame them when so many rabbis today are in trouble with the law?
I too want to be given respect and dont want my nation to be shamed or looked down on-after all we are the chosen ones, every think we do is scrutinized-so having a pervert in our midst is not what we want the public knowing. But isnt there a Jewish concept of obeying the law of the land ?

What many are forgetting that clergy in many states of these United States are mandated reporters and as mandated reporters are required by law to present cases of child abuse to the police.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/clergymandated.cfm

Due to these laws, clergy must go to the police and advise them of the abuse even before the Bet Dein takes place. They must go to the police no delay, the longer you delay the longer a crime is left to fester and a perpetrator to get away. Evidence has a better chance of being destroyed and injuries may begin healing which by the time the police get involved makes it harder for a conviction. Whether the injuries are to the perp or the abused.

It is foolish to let non law enforcement individuals be your investigators of crimes. Liars will still lie whether it is the alleged perp or the accuser, liars will lie. But police are better at interrogation and have the means to determine if evidence enters into the picture is valid or invalid.

listen up u have 5 days to tack this down or the JDL will do to the fact thay it has been deemed untrue

Now we know why we make the bracha hashiva shofteinu carishona 3 times a day. By the way, these rabbis also say the bracha. If they are so sure of the positions they take, such as this ridiculous matter of not reporting criminals of the worst kind to police, then they are making a bracha levatala.

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