While Thousands Prayed Worldwide, A Catholic Doctor Operated On A 101 Year Old Rabbi
Thousands of Orthodox Jews gathered on Sunday night at Jerusalem's Western Wall to offer prayers for the speedy recovery of 101-year-old Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, who was undergoing vascular surgery just a few miles away. But the fate of the rabbi, who is considered to be one of the greatest living experts on Jewish law, did not ultimately fall to his devoted followers, or even his Israeli doctors – it was in the hands of Catholic surgeon flown in from the US, Dr. Daniel Clair.
While thousands pray in Israel, Cleveland Clinic doctor operates on influential rabbi
Teresa Chin • The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio — Thousands of Orthodox Jews gathered on Sunday night at Jerusalem's Western Wall to offer prayers for the speedy recovery of 101-year-old Rabbi Shalom Yosef Elyashiv, who was undergoing vascular surgery just a few miles away. But the fate of the rabbi, who is considered to be one of the greatest living experts on Jewish law, did not ultimately fall to his devoted followers, or even his Israeli doctors -- it was in the hands of Cleveland Clinic surgeon Dr. Daniel Clair.
Clair, chairman of the Clinic's Department of Vascular Surgery, flew nearly 6,000 miles to operate on the rabbi, who is the highest profile leader of the Lithuanian stream of Ultra-Orthodox Judaism.
The doctor arrived in Jerusalem on Sunday night with Clinic radiology technician Bryan Kolar. They brought the basic equipment necessary for the unnamed vascular procedure with them. The pair were met by hundreds of the rabbi's supporters and family members, and several leaders of the Orthodox Jewish community. "We truly felt like rock stars," said Clair.
The four-hour surgery took place a few hours after the team's arrival at the Shaare Zedek Medical Center in Jerusalem. While the procedure itself was not "particularly debilitating," said Clair, the patient's advanced age put him at a higher risk.
Clair declined to provide details as to the type of procedure, but said similar, successful surgeries at the Cleveland Clinic that had been performed on elderly patients -- including a few over the age of 100.
As of Tuesday night, Clair reported that Elyashiv was recovering at home with his family.
This was not the first time that Clair had treated Elyashiv for a vascular issue. The doctor was the rabbi's surgeon seven years ago when Elyashiv needed an operation to correct a life-threatening condition involving his aorta. At that time, a number of other physicians had refused to treat the rabbi before Clair -- then a doctor at New York-Presbyterian Hospital -- agreed to perform the procedure, which was ultimately successful.
Clair said that he had been in communication with the rabbi's doctors since that initial surgery and a few weeks ago they decided that Clair should fly back to Israel to perform Sunday's procedure. Elyashiv and his supporters paid for the surgical team's transportation.
"It's unusual [for a surgeon to travel this far], but the decision was impacted by the nature of the individual," Clair said. "He's very important to the Orthodox community and to Jews throughout the world."
Clair, who is Catholic, described Elyashiv as "a very pious and special individual," who was still studying scripture up to a few hours before his surgery.
Elyashiv's importance as a Jewish leader was evident to Clair and Kolar after Israel's President, Shimon Peres, visited to thank them.
"[Peres] said that we needed to understand the gravity of what we were doing," said Clair, "not just to Jews in Israel or worldwide, but to the state of Israel itself. He said we were setting an example for peace."
In a phone interview from the airport before his return flight on Tuesday night, Clair said that the Clinic was supportive of his trip.
"Our clinicians are used to seeing high-profile patients, or patients that have really complicated situations," he said. "We pride ourselves in being the best in the world."
"But the fate of the rabbi, who is considered to be one of the greatest living experts on Jewish law, did not ultimately fall to his devoted followers, or even his Israeli doctors – it was in the hands of Catholic surgeon flown in from the US, Dr. Daniel Clair."
Wrong!! The fate of the Rabbi was in the hands of Hashem!!
Posted by: fyge | June 22, 2011 at 06:18 PM
Posted by: fyge | June 22, 2011 at 06:18 PM
If it was really only in Gods hand, then why fly in this doctor, any mohel could have done the Job.
Posted by: OMG | June 22, 2011 at 06:26 PM
Hishtadlus
Posted by: momma | June 22, 2011 at 07:03 PM
if hishtadlus is what is important then why are most charedim collecting from the government and collecting money in america, door to door. GET A JOB because its HISHTADLUS !
Posted by: deremes is sheker | June 22, 2011 at 07:27 PM
why didnt they get the Rambam to perform the surgery. Isnt he a doctor or something?
Posted by: netflix | June 22, 2011 at 07:52 PM
"Clair, who is Catholic, described Elyashiv as "a very pious and special individual," who was still studying scripture up to a few hours before his surgery."
How touching. Its good to see jews, especially one so highly placed to be so free from prejudice as to put his own life into the hands of a Catholic. We could learn alot from his example.
You would be surprised as to how many jews would only want to go to a jewish doctor or lawyer.
Posted by: Leah | June 22, 2011 at 08:03 PM
"You would be surprised as to how many jews would only want to go to a jewish doctor or lawyer.
Posted by: Leah"
I am very religious, and I don't know any Jews like that, religious or not. Jews, overwhelmingly, will do their very best to find the BEST doctor, and are not concerned with whether or not that doctor is Jewish.
I don't see shmarya's point. It's no big deal that Rabbi Elyashiv was operated on by a Catholic
Posted by: nice Jewish doctor | June 22, 2011 at 08:16 PM
I hope that these hareidim who think nothing of cheating non-Jews and permit it according to their "Torah Law" (forgetting of course the commandment given at Sinai about stealing), have ha-kores-ha-tov to this fine surgeon and perhaps change their filthy and inexcusable behavior because of Dr. Clair's saving the life of their hero. Hopefully, we'll soon be seeing Elyahiv's smiling, pleasant personality back at whatever the hell he does.
Posted by: Robert Wisler | June 22, 2011 at 08:40 PM
what if the very best doctor had been a woman? What then?
Posted by: Dovit | June 22, 2011 at 09:03 PM
Being a Jewish Doctor myself, I will suggest to you that many of the non Jewish physicians are extremely well regarded (of course) and one should consider whomever your Creator seems to send you to visit in life. But that said, this guy is a real hero. Vascular medicine is a really tough field and no doubt this could have been a tedious operation depending on its nature. If any of you are so inclined to wish to offer a token of appreciation, I recommend giving a donation to the Cleveland Clinic. Its a nice way to repay the favor done by their organization and surgeon. And clealry a catholic physician can be a very spiritually chosen healer. God works in many ways. Be safe with your physicians and fret not their welfare and religion. Say if they were perhaps a psychiatrist would there be more inclination to choose one who is a Jew, but even in that situation just an understanding physician should be able to understand or listen to your sensitivities and learn from you as well as you heal from him or her.
Posted by: western jew | June 22, 2011 at 09:04 PM
"I am very religious, and I don't know any Jews like that, religious or not. Jews, overwhelmingly, will do their very best to find the BEST doctor, and are not concerned with whether or not that doctor is Jewish. "
In my neighborhood there was a GP who my husband went to quite a bit. One day a shomer shabbos Dr opened up and the non-jewish Dr lost quite a bit of his patients to him from the neighborhood. He was bitter and told it to my husband. After a while he moved his practice - so it does happen.
I see this behavior in my husband. One day he needed to see a specialist so I see him log into Blue Cross's web site, enters the specialty that he needed and from the generated list would look for the "Jewish sounding" names and skip the "foreign sounding ones". I straightened him out by telling him to ask for recommendations rather than looking only for names and things like "graduated from Albert Einstein medical school" or affiliated with LI Jewish Medical Center etc... Sometimes he can be such a jerk - but in time he sees things my way :)
Posted by: Leah | June 22, 2011 at 09:25 PM
Hopefully, we'll soon be seeing Elyahiv's smiling, pleasant personality back at whatever the hell he does.
He signs fatwas, I mean bans, against books he never read, authors he never met, musicians he never heard, issues he never personally investigated, and other such issues of vital importance to the lives of Chareidi Jews.
Although he offers no basis or explanations for his rulings, Chareidi Jews, indeed all of worldwide Orthodoxy, is expected to follow his edicts without question. What he says is believed to be prophetic. Questioning what he says is considered herecy. In these ways and others he is like the Pope of worldwide Orthodoxy. His mental capacity and his judgment at his advanced age are not tested or questioned as his word is considered to be a revelation of G-d's will.
His advanced age and presently limited mental capacity is essential to his handlers who manipulate him to promote theirs and other's agendas. Do not be surprised if you find a new ban tomorrow with his signature on it.
What does he do, you ask? He is the "Gadol Hador". He need not do anything since obtaining his "Gadolship". And how dare you even ask what he does. He is the "Gadol Hador".
Posted by: Abracadabra | June 22, 2011 at 10:28 PM
"I don't see shmarya's point. It's no big deal that Rabbi Elyashiv was operated on by a Catholic"
It must be a big deal story, otherwise shmarya wouldn't have posted it on his blog.
Posted by: Visting the sick | June 22, 2011 at 10:39 PM
Abracadabra- true dat.
i hope the kind doctor doesnt find out that if HE was dying on shabbos and nobody was around to help (and have knowledge of what was taking place) besides his recent patient, elyashiv would refuse to save the good doctor.
i hope doc also isnt told that if he needed an organ transplant to save his life, and a follower of elyashiv was killed in a car accident, elyashiv would instruct that followers family not to donate the organ to save the doctors life. after all....hes not jewish.
shhhhhhh....dont tell anyone.
Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | June 22, 2011 at 10:43 PM
previous post should include that the person in the accident suffered brain stem death.
Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | June 22, 2011 at 10:48 PM
@Leah
While obviously the logical thing to do is to seek the best and most competent physician no matter what the ethnicity/religion, similar cultural background and compatibility is a factor for many patients to feel comfortable with their doctors, not only Jewish ones. There is a reason that insurance companies list the languages a physician speaks. It's not an issue for everyone, but it is for some--and of course, it goes without saying again that competence should be the most important factor
Posted by: mikey | June 22, 2011 at 10:50 PM
finding a doctor all relies on hashem just because hes a goy doesnt mean hes a good doctor obviouslt rav eliyashiv was pointed to this doctor by hashem .... he already did a similar operation in the past...i am not frum or chassidish or anything but as i see this is a pious man just getting medical help from a goy some goyiim fallow the so called "noahide laws" i dont see anything wrong with this al pi halacha...so yea what is the complaint here
Posted by: american_hater | June 23, 2011 at 01:49 AM
i meant to say just because this doctor is a goy doesnt mean hes a bad doctor,.......
i respect all opinions as i am outside the haredi circle but honestly ha rav eliyashiv deserves someone that knows his body thats done this before this is the man...its logical stop hating
Posted by: american_hater | June 23, 2011 at 01:51 AM
Actually, generally the charedi community prefers gentile doctors, they find them more "respectable", when the doctor is Jewish they say, eh, who are you, big shot. Ed Koch tells a similar story about the salute to Israel parade.
Posted by: maven | June 23, 2011 at 01:56 AM
Let's get to the real root of the matter. All religious issues aside. How much was Dr. Clair paid for his services and by whom?
Once we know the answer to this, we can decide whether he truly meant what he said about the rabbi. Or if it was for good public relations.
Posted by: Moshe in Israel | June 23, 2011 at 03:41 AM
"If it was really only in Gods hand, then why fly in this doctor, any mohel could have done the Job."
Trust in G-d, but row away from the rocks.
Posted by: Ed Greenberg | June 23, 2011 at 05:15 AM
"Hopefully, we'll soon be seeing Elyahiv's smiling, pleasant personality back at whatever the hell he does."
It might be worthwhile for some of you haters to read this week's Torah portion-- parshas Korach. You'll learn alot.
Posted by: zippy | June 23, 2011 at 06:49 AM
I wonder what kind of massive fee such a specialist commands for these rock-star appearances... in other words, an overseas house call!
Posted by: A. E. ANDERSON | Auckland, New Zealand | June 23, 2011 at 07:22 AM
(to be read in the Church Lady voice)....
Hmmm... let's see "zippy", Korach and his chassidim were punished for trying to make up their own Torah and not abiding by the one the God gave them.
Hmmmmm... who is the cult leader who does that???? hmmmm.... who could it possibly be??? Could it be ELIASHEV????????
When you hareidi bastards show some shame and repentence for your evil behavior, then you'll have the right to quote Torah. Until then, shed your meaningless crocodile tears on Yom Kippur. God ain't listening to your (or Eliashev's) bullshit.
Posted by: Sam's a Moron | June 23, 2011 at 11:03 AM
hareidi bastards lol..... your comments say alot about the type of sick person you are.
Posted by: american_hater | June 23, 2011 at 02:58 PM
I wonder if Dr. Clair would have been so pleased to fly half-way around the world to perform this procedure if he truly understood the biased attitude that Rabbi Elyashiv and his followers have towards goyim. Receive their organs, even if they are only brain stem dead? Absolutely. Donate organs to them under any conditions? No way. Return their lost property? Forget it. Violate Shabbat in order to save their lives? Maybe. The list differentiating how they should act towards their fellow Jews and how they should act towards goyim goes on and on. So on second thought, it's certainly better that the good doctor was not aware of all these distinctions on how one should conduct oneself in the area of "ben adam l'chaveyro".
Posted by: reb chaim | June 23, 2011 at 02:59 PM
american_hater -- so why don't you go back to the Ukraine or Rumania or whatever s***hole your worthless, uneducated, careerless ass crawled out of? Or is that too much work for you baat'lan?
Posted by: american_appreciator | June 23, 2011 at 03:49 PM
I wonder if they told him he has the soul of an animal and won't be going to heaven? Or did they give him a dispensation?
Posted by: Jeff | June 23, 2011 at 05:00 PM
My estimate of the fees:
Dr. Clair- $50,000 plus all expenses
Each member of the tech support team- $1000 plus all expenses
Flying in dozens of cases of medical equipment, and the good doctor and all his staff, on a chartered flight- at least $50,000
Everything was paid in cash.
Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | June 23, 2011 at 05:09 PM
Folks that is the halacha. To get the best doctor period. Short of doc being oveid avodah zorah you get the best doctor not necessarily Jewish period.
And for those who wonder why this article was posted remember the word irony?
Posted by: yudel | June 23, 2011 at 05:14 PM
The Doc gets a free vacation -all expensives paid to the Holy Land as well as his staff that comes
Holy Land-what a lot of christians the State of Israel
Posted by: Isa | June 23, 2011 at 06:47 PM
"Hmmm... let's see "zippy", Korach and his chassidim were punished for trying to make up their own Torah and not abiding by the one the God gave them."
Well... that's part of the story. The main part was Korech's challenge to Moshe's leadership and authority. The chareidi (yeshiva/chasidic) world views it's leaders as having authority in interpreting halacha and in leading their respective communities. By mocking and and insulting these leaders you are simply following in Korech's footsteps, as he also mocked Moshe. This is what I meant.
Posted by: zippy | June 24, 2011 at 05:06 AM
By mocking and and insulting these leaders you are simply following in Korech's footsteps, as he also mocked Moshe. This is what I meant.
Posted by: zippy | June 24
So I guess if the earth doesn't open up and swallow us, that pretty much disproves your belief system.
Posted by: Jeff | June 24, 2011 at 05:46 AM
"zippy"...
And the German people viewed their leader from 1933 to 1944 as having authority to interpret civil law and leading their respective nations (using your exact words).
I might add, (just to prove your utter inability to think for yourself and your Jim Jones-like cult-mentality) that unlike the chassidim (and these "yeshivish" assholes such as Mike Kotler of Lakewood (may his filthy name be erased)) who acccomplished NOTHING on their own, but simply inherited their "power", the Nazi (and Soviet etc) leaders were "elected" with almost the total acclamation of their people.
Posted by: american_appreciator | June 24, 2011 at 07:19 AM
"So I guess if the earth doesn't open up and swallow us, that pretty much disproves your belief system."
Does it? Sadly, a secular Jew, who has a negative connection to his religion will probably not have Jewish great-grandchildren or even grandchildren. This is just a statistical fact (based on Federation studies in the last 20 years). Yes, the earth doesn't swallow up those that rebel against Judaism---history swallows them up instead.
Posted by: zippy | June 26, 2011 at 05:15 AM
"And the German people viewed their leader from 1933 to 1944 as having authority to interpret civil law and leading their respective nations"
Ah...I see. You'd like to equate Torah leadership to the Nazis who planned and executed the final solution---the extermination of the Jews. That's a brilliant comparison!! Yes, when all else fails, calling those you don't like or agree with a Nazi is definitely a conversation stopper. So much for intellectual honesty.
Posted by: zippy | June 26, 2011 at 06:17 AM
Sadly, a secular Jew, who has a negative connection to his religion will probably not have Jewish great-grandchildren or even grandchildren. This is just a statistical fact (based on Federation studies in the last 20 years). Yes, the earth doesn't swallow up those that rebel against Judaism---history swallows them up instead.
Totally irrelevant (if even true). Of course, you have no answer.
Yes, when all else fails, calling those you don't like or agree with a Nazi is definitely a conversation stopper.
He wasn't calling them Nazis, unlike your Haredi bedfellows, who employ that tactic on (literally) a daily basis.
Posted by: Jeff | June 26, 2011 at 06:28 AM
Jeff---I've had exposure to the Haredi world for over 30 years and I've never once heard (or seen in print) the "tactic" of calling other Jews Nazis. I guess I missed out somehow. Literally on a daily basis? Do you have proof to such an allegation?
And yes, he was making a comparison between Torah leaders who rise through the ranks to lead their communities and the Nazi party, who was elected by the German people. Don't be naive--he meant it. He even personally insulted me, and he doesn't even know me.
I've seen it before---when you can't come up with a cohesive argument--insult your opponent---it's a clever way to win the argument.
And let's see how he insults me now.
Posted by: zippy | June 26, 2011 at 07:26 AM
Posted by: zippy | June 26, 2011 at 07:26 AM
I'm not really following this argument, but to claim that haredim don't regularly compare their opponents to Nazis shows that you are either wholly dishonest or ignorant.
Saturday haredim demonstrated in Jerusalem. The spit on secular Jews, threw rocks at their cars, jumped on their cars, and called police NAZIS.
During the summer haredi riots two years ago, throwing rocks at police and calling them Nazis was the norm.
I'm regularly called a Nazi by haredim (or a kapo, which falls under the same category).
And other Jewish commenters her are compared to Nazis by haredim.
You don't know this? Go learn.
You knew it and 'forgot' to mention it? Stop lying.
Posted by: Shmarya | June 26, 2011 at 07:58 AM
Shmarya---When you say "haredim regularly compare their opponents to Nazis" what you really mean is this: that small fraction of the haredi population (mostly youth) who throw rocks, jump on cars etc. perhaps have in fact called their opponents Nazis. But the vast, vast majority of them, peaceful men women and children, would recoil from such despicable behavior. The truth is, I've personally never seen such a thing, but if you have first hand knowledge, so be it.
Posted by: zippy | June 26, 2011 at 08:40 AM
Please.
Many of those throwing rocks and calling secular Jews and Israeli police Nazis are middle aged.
In fact, if you look at last night's post about one of these incidents, you can see a picture that supports that.
So what I really mean is that you are either lying or ignorant.
Posted by: Shmarya | June 26, 2011 at 08:46 AM
I stand by what I wrote: the vast, vast majority of haredi Jews in the world simply have not and do not do this.
Posted by: zippy | June 26, 2011 at 08:56 AM
I stand by what I wrote: the vast, vast majority of haredi Jews in the world simply have not and do not do this.
Posted by: zippy | June 26, 2011 at 08:56 AM
Israeli haredi government ministers have done it.
You can make any claims you want. But in this case, the facts are against you.
Posted by: Shmarya | June 26, 2011 at 09:06 AM
And by that I mean that these comparisons to the Nazis have been made for years, and no haredi leaders of note have publicly condemned them.
Posted by: Shmarya | June 26, 2011 at 09:07 AM
You can make any claims you want. But in this case, the facts are against you.
Wrong. I have said that the vast, vast majority of hareidim do not do this. I reject the negative characterization of Hareidim much as we would all reject the negative stereotypes of say, blacks. Just because some blacks commit crimes, to say "blacks commit crimes" would be simply a false statement. And an evil one. So too the various accolades about Hareidim too often put forth on this site (take your pick --- corrupt, sex offenders, parasites...the list is endless). Yes, there are individuals who are Hareidi and do bad things. But yes too, it is a gross distortion to label and demonize an entire very diverse community. The vast vast majority of Hareidim in Jerusalem avoid the various ugly protests like the plague. Israeli Hareidi government ministers have used the "N" word...okay, if you say so. But most of this community is not government ministers, nor do they throw stones, spit on police etc on Shabbos. They'd much rather sit home and eat cholent.
Posted by: zippy | June 26, 2011 at 01:17 PM
Wrong. I have said that the vast, vast majority of hareidim do not do this. I reject the negative characterization of Hareidim much as we would all reject the negative stereotypes of say, blacks. Just because some blacks commit crimes, to say "blacks commit crimes" would be simply a false statement.
Lets see.
Calling opponents Nazis is very common in the haredi world. It has been done regularly for at least the past several years, and documented on Israeli TV and in the newspapers.
Yet you do not have major haredi leaders making public statements opposing that language.
There's a halakhic concept you're obviously not familiar with: silence equals acquiescence.
For you to assume a community that runs as a totalitarian theocracy would somehow overlook this prevalent behavior is foolish.
Until haredim distance themselves from it, one must assume they support the analogy.
Posted by: Shmarya | June 26, 2011 at 03:08 PM
"Calling opponents Nazis is very common in the haredi world. It has been done regularly for at least the past several years"
An unsubstantiated distortion. Regularly where? I've never once heard it, and I spend a hell of a lot more time around hareidim than you do in, where do you live? St. Paul Minnesota? Reading newspaper articles does not make you an expert on this, Shmarya. As Mark Twain said, "those who don't read the news are uninformed; those who DO read the news are misinformed." And it's bad journalism to make sweeping generalizations about this community based on some ugly behavior by a bunch of jerks---probably many of these jerks were getting their heads smashed by the police and said the worst word they knew (unlike most of us, they probably don't know the four letter ones).
Actually, I did hear the "N" word used once---at the Kotel, used by a kippah srugah member of the Temple Mount Faithful who was being blocked from entering the Temple Mount. He kept screaming and calling the police Nazis. He was American, and probably did know the four letter words, but nevertheless continued to call them Nazis. I believe everybody there who witnessed this realized the guy was a nut case.
Posted by: zippy | June 27, 2011 at 02:52 AM
An unsubstantiated distortion. Regularly where? I've never once heard it, and I spend a hell of a lot more time around hareidim than you do in, where do you live?
Lets see.
Haredim did it several times per week for an entire summer, coupled with rock throwing, garbage bin burning and other acts of violence, and this still goes on. Haredi MKs did it. The haredi media did it. And no haredi leaders condemned it.
That you are too dishonest to admit this (or too ignorant to know it happened) does not change the fact that it did happen – a lot – and that it still happens – a lot.
Your ridiculous contention appears to be that because we don't know the exact number of haredim who do this in relationship to the total number of haredim, we therefore cannot use the term "haredim called…" because it isn't fair to those haredim – whatever their number may be – who have not yet called an opponent a Nazi.
As I pointed out above, halakha doesn't see it that way.
In halakha, silence is viewed as acquiescence, meaning if you do not object to bad behavior, you endorse bad behavior.
So until haredi leaders and rank and file haredim publicly object to calling Israeli police and soldiers Nazis, and until Chabad and haredi leaders object to calling me and other opponents Nazis and kapos, they are endorsing this behavior.
And that is true whether or not Zippy can wrap her mind around the concept or not.
Posted by: Shmarya | June 27, 2011 at 05:38 AM
"because it isn't fair to those haredim – whatever their number may be – who have not yet called an opponent a Nazi."
Huh? According to you, all hareidim are just chomping at the bit to call other Jews Nazis. Another in a long list of distortions.
Posted by: zippy | June 27, 2011 at 07:22 AM
But i will say this though. If anyone called you a Nazi, kapo etc., that is truly reprehensible and disgusting. Name calling and personal insults are a cheap shot and that is one of the cheapest.
Posted by: zippy | June 27, 2011 at 07:26 AM
"because it isn't fair to those haredim – whatever their number may be – who have not yet called an opponent a Nazi."
Huh? According to you, all hareidim are just chomping at the bit to call other Jews Nazis. Another in a long list of distortions.
Posted by: zippy | June 27, 2011 at 07:22 AM
Yes. Another in a long line of Y-O-U-R distortions.
What I actually wrote puts those words in your mouth, not mine:Your ridiculous contention appears to be that because we don't know the exact number of haredim who do this in relationship to the total number of haredim, we therefore cannot use the term "haredim called…" because it isn't fair to those haredim – whatever their number may be – who have not yet called an opponent a Nazi.
I went on to explain – again – how halakha views silence in the face of that kind of outrageous behavior.As I pointed out above, halakha doesn't see it that way.
In halakha, silence is viewed as acquiescence, meaning if you do not object to bad behavior, you endorse bad behavior.
So until haredi leaders and rank and file haredim publicly object to calling Israeli police and soldiers Nazis, and until Chabad and haredi leaders object to calling me and other opponents Nazis and kapos, they are endorsing this behavior.You see, zippy, there actually is a halakhic position on this, and you are on the wrong side of the halakha.
Posted by: Shmarya | June 27, 2011 at 07:36 AM
You said the words "not yet," not me. Not yet implies.."they have not yet done it, but they will...."
Posted by: zippy | June 27, 2011 at 07:48 AM
You said the words "not yet," not me. Not yet implies.."they have not yet done it, but they will...."
Posted by: zippy | June 27, 2011 at 07:48 AM
They do not and it wouldn't matter anyway.
The halakha is that they have to disassociate themselves from that behavior or they are considered to be endorsing it.
And that's the point.
Posted by: Shmarya | June 27, 2011 at 07:53 AM