Government Response To Rubashkin Bail Motion

The litany of reasons why the government believes Sholom Rubashkin should not get bail.

Here is the entire response as a PDF file:

Download Government's Response To Rubashkin Bail Motion 6-23-11

[Hat Tip: Norm.]

Comments

[CHAIM36]

It would be a mitsvah to remove this picture of a jew with a HAT and beard. It just increases the huge chilul hashem in the eyes of the goyim.

[Gevezenr Chusid]

that's a hat? It looks more like the collars that vets put around dogs who have had ear operations to prevent them from scratching themselves.

How did ridiculous looking fedoras become Jewish, anyhow?

[treif]

yes, they should remove all religious privileges all of them, what hiprocrites.

[seymour]

FM

You really need to change to heading off this article

to
Government Response To Harov hagoen Rubashkin Bail Motion.

you discredit this heiligie Jew by just calling him by his name only

Have you no respect for a holy yiddin

[The Real Joe]

your constantly bashing the frum news publications for making big news story's out of the defense lawyers filling documents etc well your doing the same thing I mean whats the big surprise here of course the prosecution will fight the bail request Shmarya the day that you will see Sholom M Rubashkin walking out a free man wearing his hat and jacket is closer then you think

[Satmar Rebbe]

He did the crime, he must do the time. Had he not committed a crime, he would not be in prison. Simple. If he is quiet for a bit, they may be more sympathetic towards poi=ssible sentence reduction. Right now all it screams is "woe is me". All prisoners are innocent, didn't you know?

[Shmarya]

our constantly bashing the frum news publications for making big news story's out of the defense lawyers filling documents etc well your doing the same thing I mean whats the big surprise here of course the prosecution will fight the bail request Shmarya the day that you will see Sholom M Rubashkin walking out a free man wearing his hat and jacket is closer then you think

Posted by: The Real Joe | June 24, 2011 at 10:45 AM

Idiot.

I also posted Rubashkin's motion for bail.

Do try to process that.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Yes indeed, closer then you think, just like with this guy:

108-Year-Old Prisoner Freed After Serving 24 Years In Prison

http://weirdnews.aol.com/2011/06/20/108-year-old-
prisoner-freed_n_880568.html

[effie]

If the convictions were reversed by the COA, they would remand the case back to the trial court. The AG would refile and the trial court would be the one to set bail.

[effie]

The AG would refile and the trial court would be the one to set bail...or deny it.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Off topic, but a joke I just read:

I don’t believe in gay marriage because I’m a Torah Jew, and I believe in the Bible. I believe marriage is between a man and a young woman sold by her parents in exchange for cattle, crops, and village safety.

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

This almost sounds like one of those, "Mr. Lawyer, get my son out of prison" pleas.

[Alex]

What, in actuality is central to the governments argument? Projection. Namely, if they were sentenced to a draconian punishment, essentially a life sentence, they sure as heck would flee.

[Shmarya]

What, in actuality is central to the governments argument? Projection. Namely, if they were sentenced to a draconian punishment, essentially a life sentence, they sure as heck would flee.

Posted by: Alex | June 24, 2011 at 01:45 PM

That isn't projection. Judges rarely grant bail after a long sentence is imposed.

Past that, the response lists a few of the crimes Rubashkin committed when he was out on bail, and you conveniently forgot to mention those.

[Isa]

Ha-Shem gets pissed when you...

torture animals neednessly
Screw over non-Jews as if they are sub-humans or something
oh oh sorry I forgot...
The Tanya [the holy work of Chabad] says non-Jews are not human

[Simple Jew]

B"H

Shmarya

Why don't you look at how non jews were treated when they had long sentences on white collar crimes and filed appeals.

Compare that with what is happening here.

Most of us do recall that the Judge and Prosecutor did indeed say or agree that SMR was a flight risk because he was jewish and Israel has a law of return.

So if your name is Timothy Rigas (Adelphia communications) and you get a 20 year jail sentence and file an appeal.... somehow you get out of jail while appeal is pending. But if you are jewish especially frum then you are denied.

I know this sounds cynical.

Maybe someeone who knows more than average guy like me or Shmarya can shed some light on how common for bail pending appeal request in non violent white collar crimes is.

[Shmarya]

That is simply false.

Any sitting federal judge will tell you what I told you: convicted criminals with long sentences almost never get bail on appeal.

And indicted people who destroy evidence and obstruct justice when on bail rarely, if ever, get bail again.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Simple Jew, a lot of frumma criminals do indeed jump bail and run away to Israel. It's a simple fact, not antisemitism.

[sarah]

So it’s a simple fact that it’s mainly (frum) Jews who jump bail and flee the county. All other “normal” people in the world would never doo that…. Is that what you are saying?

The question is simple, do people sitting for white crimes commonly get bail pending appeal?

Shmarya routinely presents himself as an expert in US law as well as Halacha. He always makes unequivocal statements as: “Any sitting federal judge will tell you what I told you” or “ask any Dayan” and he will tell you.

Usually, when you investigate a little you will realize that Shmarya likes talking “big” and usually has no better idea of the facts then the average Joe on the street.

Shabbat shalom!

[effie]

No, it's a simple fact that this frum Jew [SMR] is a flight risk. The response lists all the reasons why bail should be denied. Try reading it. The COA is not going to grant bail. This is what is called "client control" i.e., the atty is only filing the motion to please a difficult client. The court knows this and accepts the fact that sometimes defense attys have to make frivolous motions.

[The Real Joe]

So I see some of self hating Jews have stepped to a new level agreeing with the decision not to grant Rubashkin bail before trial when even judge Reade ended up granting it

[seymour]

It seems that many have not read the whole case file here

the reason SMR will not get bail is because simply there is prove he paid for a plane ticket for a crucial wittiness to go to Israel

Now you understand

[Norm]

When the Court of Appeals heard oral argument it was obvious that there was more than the usual security in the Courthouse and Courtroom. I suspect that Judge Reade received some inappropriate annonymous comunciations from the Frum community which are probably not going to affect the COA but certainly won't help him on the appeal or this motion. (I certainly hope she doesn't think that the Frum community is representative of our tribe especially since Mr. Lewin says that he entire Frum community supports him and his actions.)

Let me ask the frum readers. If you were a federal judge would you consider the flight to Israel argument legitimate in view of the people like "Crazy Eddie" of the Syrian comunity who evaded prosecution for years-among others. Yes, I know that SMR surrendered his passport-but how difficult would it be for him to take a private charter-or go to Toronto and use another hasid's passport?

[BeenThereDoneThat]

that's a hat? It looks more like the collars that vets put around dogs who have had ear operations to prevent them from scratching themselves.

How did ridiculous looking fedoras become Jewish, anyhow?

Posted by: Gevezenr Chusid | June 24, 2011 at 10:23 AM

It's actually a black halo

[A E ANDERSON]

There are many reasons not to release Rubashkin at this stage of his appeal. Risk of flight is not one of them. There is a fairly rigorous extradition regime in place with Israel, which is most unlikely to stick its neck out over a a financial criminal like Rubashkin. Moreover, the sureties that would be required are so extensive that many people would be pauperised and homeless if bail were forfeit: even that Chabad insiders do not do to or tolerate from each other.

Moreover, Lewin's name would be mud, and he would never allow that to happen. He wouldn't even suggest bail if there were the most remote chance of the famed Lewin reputation being besmirched.

The result of Rubashkin fleeing bail would be an unending effort by the USMS and other agencies to apprehend him. It would become one of those sticky issues that diplomats raise at key face to face meetings.

I cannot imagine that any country, not Israel, not Uruguay, would want the headache of harbouring him. The countries that might be induced to take him (Venezuela or Cuba come to mind) hardly want American miscreants and wrongdoers from the exploitative capitalist system they so hate.

I think the prosecutors should begin to deal with the likelihood that Rubashkin's sentence will be severely reduced to a level reflecting Rubashkin's relatively minor (but consequential) misdeeds, if creating false documents to mislead a bank over a multimillion dollar loan, even if the intent was to repay, can be diminutively portrayed merely as a peccadillo or misdeed.

They need to end the circus, cease the unproven and likely unprovable wild accusations (bribery, etc.) that serve only to defame the already degraded defendant, and get on with prosecuting the serious matters of law that cannot in good conscience remain unaddressed, namely the massive financial fraud and the attendant creation of false business records to support the fraud.

With 20/20 hindsight, the Postville Raid was probably ill advised, and there were better ways to achieve the immigration enforcement goals. I think the defence will make much of how prosecutors wrongly and unfairly conflated the complaints of the anti-Rubashkin camp with the far narrower enforcement issues they sought to address.

I'm sorry, DHS and ICE and later the prosecutors seemed far too cozy with the howling camp of Rubashkin haters, aggrieved Agriprocessors folks, labor union activists, tree huggers and animal rights people, etc., to have done their job properly as impartial investigators. At times, it seems prosecutors, in their absurd fusillade of superseding indictments, seemed to be goaded on by anti-SMR ] in this blog, with all the absurd rhetoric of "Rubashkin crime family," etc. But the fact of the matter is that as public servants, they owed their employers (i.e., the taxpayers) a fair, impartial albeit adversary record to begin with.

Maybe ICE/DHS was a new kid on the block, and lacked the kind of expertise and experience typically displayed more seasoned regulatory and police agencies.

In its formative years, as it floundered with its mission, DHS perhaps lacked the institutional probity it need to take a seat above the fray and act evenhandedly. Indeed, they began at times to behave more like the cowboy agencies (DEA comes to mind), rather than what had become the de facto national police.

[Yossi]

Every time this subject is raised about this convicted criminal it just increases the already massive Chilul Hashem. Every time a new appeal is made it increases the Chilul Hashem for all of us. Go away criminal and do Teshuva in prison. That’s where you belong.

[Yossi]

PS in case you're wondering about the time of this post. It’s already Motzei Shabbos in England, but we also feel the Chilul Hashem here of these criminals.

[sarah]

Yossi, you claim your main issue is “Hilul Hashum”. Do you even know what it means?

Your way of describing a fellow yid, especially one who has done countless acts of good for countless people is the epitome of “Hulul Hashem”. (and I’m not defending his wrongdings).

Did you ever learn Rabbi Akiva’s teaching about “V’ohavto Lreacho Komocha” being the essence of the Torah?

Did you ever learn what Hillel told the person who wanted to convert while learning the entire torah while standing on one foot “"What you hate, don't do to your friend. This is the whole Torah. The rest is explanation.Go and learn."?

I your brother, father or son was in legal trouble would simly say: “Every time a new appeal is made it increases the Chilul Hashem for all of us. Go away criminal and do Teshuva in prison. That’s where you belong.”??? Seems like you are the one creating the real Hilul Hashem by portraying Toarah observant Jews in a very negative light. This is not how our Holy Torah and Chza”l teach us to talk/think about a brother in trouble.

[Mordechi]

Can you please stop looking for every negative thing Rubashkin did, I am sure there is plenty of good that you have not emphasized. Further more he has a family that loves him and wants to see him home. I think they suffered enough. Just think about your loved ones and how they would feel if you were snatched away from them.

27 years is just to much for men whose main course of action was to provide kosher meat not to steal.

Its his first offense.

At least show some love to his kids, instead of badgering their father.

[Yossi]

If a guy parks illegally (e.g. double parking) that is also a Chilul Hashem. He might learn 24/7 and give all his money to charity. But it is still a Chilul Hashem. On the other hand, I wouldn’t expect him to get 27 years in jail for illegal parking.

The assumption is, if this guy has been committed to jail for 27 years by a legal system in a western civilised country, then is he must be guilty of a pretty serious office(s).

[Yossi]

To Sarah and Mordechai

Just had a quick look in the Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Hilchos Yesodei Hatorah, Chapter 5, to say if what you said had any basis. I think you better go back to Cheder and learn the Rambam again.

PS I suggest you don’t make the guy into such a Tzaddik. The Rambam says that the Chilul Hashem increases the more a person is a Tzaddik, and in that case he gets judged as making a Chilul Hashem when a normal person wouldn’t.

[fruma sarah]

to the real joe::;let out free ? much quicker than you ever could have imagined.

[Rhymnsandi]

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