Setting The Record Straight On Agudath Israel Of America And Child Sexual Abuse

The Jewish Star has an erroneous report on Agudath Israel of America's recent conference that misrepresents Agudah's position on reporting child sexual abuse to police.

 

The Jewish Star reports as follows:

On the topic of abuse, Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zwiebel, executive vice president of Agudath Israel, spoke in support of reporting abuse to authorities. “The Torah approves reporting abuse to authorities,” said Rabbi Flink. “It’s about preventing opportunities for abuse from happening.”

While this seems straightforward, it is a complete misrepresentation of Agudah's position and of what Rabbi Zwiebel actually said.

How do I know this?

I have it on tape, and I posted that tape on Wednesday so you could hear it.

Agudah had Rabbi Gottesman give a one hour class – for CLE credit, I'm told – for mandatory reporters on reporting child sexual abuse.

Rabbi Gottesman's conlusion was that reporting is often difficult under Jewish law, even though it is also very often necessary.

And therefore, according to Gottesman and Agudah the decision to report abuse to police is not straightforward.

Gottesman's and Agudah's guidelines for reporting child sexual abuse are as follows:

• In cases of absolute knowledge of the sexual abuse – you come home early, say, and walk in on Mr. X performing fellatio on a 7 year old boy – you can in theory (but are not absolutely mandated to in practice) report the abuse directly to police or the government's child welfare agency.

• In all other cases – for example, cases where there are no witnesses or where the only witness is a young victim child– you must go to a senior rabbi (or better yet, he said, a bit din, religious court, made up of senior rabbis knowledgeable in these issues) to get permission to report the alleged abuse to police.

Going to a rabbi or beit din first before reporting suspected child sexual abuse – or the abuse of vulnerable adults, and all other types of abuse covered under mandatory reporting laws – violates mandatory reporting laws in many, if not all, states. Therefore, Agudah was telling its members to violate the law, no matter Agudah's spin is.

And what is Agudah's spin?

After Gottesman finished he turned the microphone over to Agudah's executive vice president Rabbi Chaim David Zwiebel, who briefly discussed differences in definitions of suspected abuse. In effect, the definition of suspected abuse sets the standard for when a report must be made.

States have their definitions of suspected abuse codified with their mandatory reporting laws, and professional associations amd boards also have their own definitions.

Zwiebel attempted to use the slight differences between these definitions to justify Agudah's position that in most cases of abuse, 'Da'as Torah,' a senior rabbi or a rabbinic cournt made up of senior rabbis, must be consulted before suspected abuse is reported. These rabbis are often the same rabbis who have erred in (or covered up) previous cases of child sexual abuse.

You can hear the enitre lecture and Zwiebel's remarks here.

The Jewish Star's erroneous report:

Agudath professionals conference draws hundreds
By Sergey Kadinsky • The Jewish Star

Seeking to balance their professions alongside Torah guidelines, hundreds of participants attended Agudath Israel’s Halacha Conference for Professionals and the Business Community on May 15 in Brooklyn.

Topics such as wills and estates, organ donation, taxation and accounting, and abuse reporting were addressed in pairs with Agudath rabbis presenting alongside moderators accredited in medicine, law, family therapy, and accounting.

Noting the contrast that sometimes appears between Torah views and conventional judgment, Agudath Israel board chairman Rabbi Gedaliah Weinberger quoted an example from famed prewar rosh yeshiva Rabbi Chaim Ozer Grodzinski, who argued that in certain life-saving situations, an older person would receive precedence over someone younger. ““We have to make our community aware of the rulings of da’as Torah on those issues that impact on our daily lives,” Rabbi Weinberger said.

Speaking on end-of-life care, Rabbi Gedaliah Weinberger described the unprecedented legal challenges of following Torah guidelines in medical treatment of the elderly. “The conference addressed on how you and your loved ones should be treated according to Torah and not be left to languish and die,” said Rabbi Chaim Flink of Kew Gardens, who attended the conference. “Death should not be hastened.”

On the topic of abuse, Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zwiebel, executive vice president of Agudath Israel, spoke in support of reporting abuse to authorities. “The Torah approves reporting abuse to authorities,” said Rabbi Flink. “It’s about preventing opportunities for abuse from happening.”

Agudath Israel of America Says Ask Your Rabbi Before Reporting Child Sexual Abuse To Police.

Comments

[jewishwhistleblower]

Part of the problem is that Agudath Israel Of America talks from both sides of its mouth.

See: http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2007/02/rabbi_dovid_fei.html

July 2006 quote from the Jewish Voice:
...
In general, Rabbi [Dovid] Feinstein says, it is a good idea for would-be
accusers in the Jewish community to take their charges to a beit din
before going to the police. “If the person is found guilty, the beit
din would tell the accuser to go to the police; if the person is found
not guilty, the beit din would tell the accuser to forget it,” he
says. Asked if he knows of any instances in which a beit din referred a
case to the civil authorities, Rabbi Feinstein says he does not.
...

Which contradicts what Agudath's mouth piece says:

What the rabbi said
Jerusalem Post
January 24, 2006
Sir, - Readers of the Jewish Telegraphic Agency's recent series on clergy sexual abuse may have been misled by the report's assertion that the meaning of words spoken by a respected rabbinic authority at last year's Agudath Israel of America national convention is, as the article put it, "open to interpretation." The rabbinic authority, the article asserted, admitted "that haredim are indeed guilty of sweeping things under the carpet."
The writer of the series has acknowledged to me that he had not at the time listened to a recording of the speech.
Rabbi Salomon's words, however, could not have been clearer. He pointed out how some people like to accuse the haredi community of "sweeping things under the carpet." They are right, he went on to explain, but not in the way they mean. "Do they know how many perpetrators" of sins against others "have been dealt with?" No, he averred, because when actions are taken against individuals who have proven themselves untrustworthy, Orthodox leaders do not trumpet their actions. And even as they take what steps are necessary to protect others, he added, they also seek to protect human dignity.
Moreover, Rabbi Salomon declared that when crimes are asserted but not proven, Jews must be guided not by a mob mentality but by the Torah.
The JTA article may well be right that "several Web site and blog contributors" chose to interpret Rabbi Salomon's remarks as an admission that "haredi officials often look the other way when clergy sex abuse takes place in their midst." But that says something only about those Web site and blog contributors, and nothing at all about what Rabbi Salomon actually said.
RABBI AVI SHAFRAN
Director of Public Affairs
Agudath Israel of America

I would remind people that Rav Reuven
Feinstein (Rav Dovid Feinstein's brother) is a Presidium (board) member of Agudath Israel of America Inc. So when Agudath Israel through its spokesperson Avi Shafran says:

>"Rabbi Salomon's words, however,
>could not have been clearer. He
>pointed out how some people like
>to accuse the haredi community
>of "sweeping things under the
>carpet." They are right, he went
>on to explain, but not in the way
>they mean. "Do they know how many
>perpetrators" of sins against
>others "have been dealt with?" No,
>he averred, because when actions
>are taken against individuals who
>have proven themselves untrustworthy,
>Orthodox leaders do not trumpet their
>actions. And even as they take what
>steps are necessary to protect others,
>he added, they also seek to protect
>human dignity.

We know thanks to Rav Dovid Feinstein exactly how many child molesters "have been dealt with". ZERO, not one.

>"Asked if he knows of any
>instances in which a beit din
>referred a case to the civil
>authorities, Rabbi Feinstein says
>he does not.

And they are who we rely on to protect our children at their camps and in institutions?

Agudath Israel is distorting halacha, obstructing justice, silencing the voices of survivors of abuse and protecting the pedophiles. Yet they lie and claim the opposite.

And people are just starting to realize this. I and others have been saying this now for many years:

1) The distorted self-serving view of halacha at Sunday's Agudah conference
by Rabbi Daniel Eidensohn
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2011/05/distorted-self-serving-view-of-halacha.html
...
But perhaps his biggest failure was to [not] address the betrayal of the abuse victims by the rabbis and community and the severe psychological & religious damage this betrayal causes. It is commonly observed by those who work with off the derech children that most of these children have been abused. So yes - there is a legitimate halachic problem of how to deal with mesira - but in reality the issue of abuse is not primarily about how to preserve rabbinic authority - but how to protect our children.
...

2) http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2011/05/orthodox-social-worker-may-be-called-as-witness-against-alleged-haredi-child-abuser-judge-rules-456.html
...
But the beit din process broke down, the beit din was disbanded (leaving Kolko unsupervised), and the father of the alleged victim reported the alleged abuse to police. The victim's father was then harassed by Kolko supporters, at least one of whom is now facing criminal charges for witness tampering as a result, and Lakewood rabbis issued a proclamation against the father
...

Agudath Israel continues to mislead and lie as to its true position and how abuse is really dealt with in the community.

[seymour]

daas Torah

basically they use that when it makes no sense.

In all other cases for example, cases where there
are no witnesses or where the only witness is a young victim child
you must go to a senior rabbi (or better yet, he said, a bit din,
religious court, made up of senior rabbis knowledgeable in these
issues) to get permission to report the alleged abuse to police.
Question how many time have they given permission
ZERO
While this seems straightforward, it is a complete
misrepresentation of what Agudah's position is and of what Rabbi
Zwiebel actually said.
This is due to their upbringing..
For example rashi say so-so in bubbha
kama and rashi say so-so in Giten . The same cases yet rashi say two
different things. Changed his mind, NO, maybe a mistake, No
So comes along Rab ahivha egar with an
elaborate explanation that may take a page or two to very
convoluted to explain that there is no conflict.
This is why they can always get out if
stuff like this with an elaborate explanation that it all means the
same thing when is does not

[jewishwhistleblower]

Does anyone still believe the Agudath Israel lies?

See: the truth

http://www.earthbook.tv/religion/channelhome/channelvideos/149/640/

[jancsipista]

seymour- it sounds like a houdini like extraction from a straight jacket but in verbal mode:) if you let they will talk themselfs out of anything twist everything.

[seymour]

seymour- it sounds like a houdini like extraction from a straight jacket but in verbal mode:) if you let they will talk themselfs out of anything twist everything.

Posted by: jancsipista | May 20, 2011 at 09:08 AM

yes,

they where trained that way for as many years they where in yeshiva.

They somehow can explain how when the torah said do not cook a calf with the milk of its mother

to mean two separate sets of dishes and that almost everybody believes so then anything they say will make sense to their sheep

[anonjust4today]

Jewish Star was a great paper which kept tabs on the frum community until they got rid of Orbach.

[seymour]

Does anyone still believe the Agudath Israel lies?

See: the truth

http://www.earthbook.tv/religion/channelhome/channelvideos/149/640/

Posted by: jewishwhistleblower | May 20, 2011 at 09:08 AM

true but unfortunately since the community has been trained to listen to their elders absolutely Dass Torah all the facts and evidence will not matter.

once a leader says the magic words daas torah their followers become impotent of any ration thinking

sort of like the birthers

[seymour]

once a leader says the magic words daas torah their followers become impotent of any rational thinking

[Samuel K]

The real problem is the lost credibility of the religious leaders. They have demonstrated over many years that their empathy lies with the community's reputation rather than the victims.
How can a victim or someone who cares about a victim put his faith in people that prefer nothing to justice?!
Despite the fact that courts fail many times to find the truth, especially in sexual crimes, it is still the only viable option.

[seymour]

TSamuel K

nothing is perfect the courts system is the best we got

[jancsipista]

seymour-i sent you an email did you get it?

[seymour]

yep

I get busy and them not that is when I post.

sometime I post to much and then have to work at night

[DAVID]

these guys are full of garbage

[Shmarya]

Jewish Star was a great paper which kept tabs on the frum community until they got rid of Orbach.

Posted by: anonjust4today | May 20, 2011 at 09:15 AM

Not just Orbach.

Their editor left and he was replaced with a guy who, while famous for one gotcha story he did (Helen Thomas), has no idea how to run a paper or how journalism works.

And then this new editor hired people who are even less qualified than he is and he hired them based on ideology and cronyism.

[jewishwhistleblower]

How Agudath Israel Of America Inc. Rabbonim really deals with pedophiles. They protect pedophiles and silence the children that are abused and their families. They prevent the reporting of crimes to the police and obstruct justice. You don't have to take my word. This is from Rav Dovid Feinstein's interview in a July 2006 interview with the Jewish Voice and Opinion on reporting abuse to the authorities (note Rav Dovid Cohen recruited Rav Dovid Feinstein to the 2nd bais din on the Rabbi Hafner sexual abuse case):
...
Rav Dovid Feinstein of the Lower East Side, in whose office the beit din was held, says the rabbinic court was called at the behest of the (removed) family who, somewhat belatedly, decided they wanted halachic approbation to call in the secular authorities. In fact, according to Rabbi Feinstein, this was not the first beit din that was called to adjudicate the matter. He maintains that, before going to the police in the first place, the (removed) had asked a beit din to decide what they should do. “When the beit din ruled that the family should not go to the police, the family decided the beit din was biased against them, and allowed the secular courts to take over,” says Rav Feinstein, who did not participate in that first beit din.

Personally Recruited
According to Rabbi Rottenberg, the second beit din consisted of five rabbis who were all personally recruited by Rabbi Cohen.
“He wanted to find the five best rabbis he could to sit on this beit din, because he wanted no arguments about the ruling,” says Rabbi Rottenberg, adding that when he hesitated to join, Rabbi Cohen called Rabbi Rottenberg’s parents to convince him to take part.
...
In general, Rabbi Feinstein says, it is a good idea for would-be accusers in the Jewish community to take their charges to a beit din before going to the police. “If the person is found guilty, the beit din would tell the accuser to go to the police; if the person is found not guilty, the beit din would tell the accuser to forget it,” he says. Asked if he knows of any instances in which a beit din referred a case to the civil authorities, Rabbi Feinstein says he does not.
...

[steve]

Talk about shabby and misleading reporting.

[emmylou]

SICK. The idea that someone would define child sexual abuse by very fine points of law... sick, sick, sick... why would religious people of ANY religion go through the trouble... ? Why? It makes me want to throw up...

[Sergey Kadinsky]

Erroneous? It's a simple brief write-up of an Agudath event, not some in-depth investigation.

This is why you have absolutely no credibility in the local Orthodox community. Your blog may have some facts, but they are clothed in hatred.

And nobody wants to listen to a bigot. Clean up your act.

Sergey Kadinsky
Assistant Editor
The Jewish Star

[Shmarya]

Please.

Your "brief" report is wrong as anyone who listens to the tape recording knows.

Why don't you clean up your "brief" report rather than attacking someone who actually did correctly report the truth?

[A. Nuran]

Would love to see Agudath, the beis dins, the yeshivas, RCA and the rest RICOed for this. Obstruction of Justice, failure of mandated reporters to report rape and suspected child abuse, witness tampering, destruction of evidence, conspiracy to deny people their civil rights, interstate conspiracy to commit all of these and probably aggravated mopery with intent to loiter.

[OMG]

Posted by: Sergey Kadinsky | May 20, 2011 at 04:16 PM

I never knew that in journalism school they taught you that as long the report is brief, you could riddle it with inaccurate information, and if it is pointed out to you, instead of a correction you attack the reporter who points it out. From which school did you graduate?

[Chava Bet Tehvia]

Based on that speech, the ultra-orthodox community should be treated no better than the Yearning for Zion fundies since this amounts to an authorization and license to molest underage children if only a man is powerful enough in the community. This type of corruption, stupidity and hypocrisy is the reason I rejected religious Judaism very early. I think maybe this sector of the Jewish world is breeding itself into stupidity since I cannot see why anyone with 1/2 a brain would stay in this community. Maybe its for the best.

[steve]

I would rather Kadinsky leave it as is and let the oilam think that the Agudah supports going to the police. If this leads to one more arrest, it would be worth the lie to save lives.

[survivor]

well solomon is the man who recieved a suicide note from a mother saying if he allowed her daughter to go out of town for school she would kill herself the very "loving caring and knowledgable...."Rabbi" said to the father u cannot send her.... any sane person would have asked questions an investigation would have accured but nope not in lakewood as that would be a terrible thing...
and im sure there are many others with stories abt these so called rabbis if they are rabbis who are we supposed to look up to?

[Amber]

If these rabbis are often the same rabbis who have blundered in or covered up previous cases of child sexual abuse, then their reports are untrustworthy from the get go.