November Letter From New Square Leadership Calls For Hasidm To Eject Dissident From Village

"But to all our sorrow, there is one individual…who even after the members of the congregation warned him time after time to uproot his dwelling from the village… he is still pushing us off and upholding his decision [to pray elsewhere], therefore it is upon us to publicize that not only was the right to live here in the village taken from him, along with [the right] to send his sons to our institutions, we are also prohibiting him from entering public buildings, for example the synagogue, the ritual bath, hall of song and prayer, etc, and you have to stop him from the entering."

Where did the violence in New Square come from?

Perhaps the following letter issued in November 2010 against another New Square dissident:

[Emphasis added to part of the letter's translation – Shmarya.]

Righteous Rabbinical Court                                                                                                                                       
of Holy Congregation of Square Village

Congregation Tzemach David   
of Square Village

Under the leadership of the Holy Grand Rabbi should he live good and long years

With the help of God blessed should be his name.

Tuesday to the week of Toldot 5771
(11/2/2010)

With regard to the ruling in this holy village that was set by the holy grand rabbi, blessed be he and his holiness in the life of the world to come, that people should pray only in one congregation for the prayers of the Shabbat and Holidays, that the rabbis the sages members of the Righteous Rabbinical Court sat with the members of the Congregation to judge the matter, and they made aware privately [this ruling to] those individuals that prayed in another congregation because they didn't know the severity of this matter, and they actually accepted the [ruling] and they stopped to pray there.

But to all our sorrow, there is one individual, ________________ , who even after the members of the congregation warned him time after time to uproot his dwelling from the village, because he is breaking the laws and the rulings of the village "in multiple ways," and he is still pushing us off and upholding his decision [to pray elsewhere], therefore it is upon us to make public that not only was the right to live here in the village taken from him and [the right] to send his sons to our institutions, we are also prohibiting him from entering public buildings, for example the synagogue, the ritual bath, hall of song and prayer, etc, and you have to stop him from entering.

And we will conclude with a prayer that we all should merit to uphold the rulings of the village and her foundations, and to raise our children in the ways of the Torah and fear of God with strength and peace and everything good forever.

Members of the Righteous Rabbinical Court

Board of the Congregation

[Hat Tip: Yochenen.]

Comments

[Common Sense]

Since I don't have my head shaved, and there is some "excess" hair in the front (aka a 'chup' in the chassidishe circles), I wasn't allowed to be chazan at shul by Viznitz, on my fathers yurtziet. After this experience, reading such letters from chassidishe leaders don't surprise me. This isn't religion, it's fanaticism. Damn shame these f jobs give hassy's a bad name, but it's time to put an end to this breed of dip $hits.

[Apikorus Al Ha'esh]

This one isn't signed, either.

[S]

It has the officail stamps at the bottom.

[Rochel]

New Square isn't a private, gated community (or is it?) so they cannot throw someone out - there is still a division of church and state in this country. These people need to get a life and find something better to do with their time than micromanage everyone's minyan habits. I hate to say this, but I think it is time that they get the Waco treatment - this is really starting to resemble a frightening insular insane sect/cult that needs to be broken up. The news coming out of New Square these last few days has really been angering me.

[Shmarya]

New Square isn't a private, gated community (or is it?) so they cannot throw someone out - there is still a division of church and state in this country.

That's why I highlighted those parts of the letter.

The feds need to investigate this.

[Adam Neira]

To Rochel,

"These people need to get a life and find something better to do with their time than micromanage everyone's minyan habits."

Correct.

Ostracism is a nasty punishment. Seems like the man wanted to maintain some connection to the community but had disagreements on certain points with the leadership. Groupthink can be very toxic and dangerous. We must always try and avoid limiting, constricting, downwardly spiralling groupthink whether in a family, workplace, religious sect or community. Sometimes we suspend our individual mind to join in the group mind like when supporters go to a football game. As long as we aware of why we are thinking in a certain way at a certain time that is the main thing.

[Yechiel]

The first two lines of the letter is THE source of the current unrest in New Square.
The sheeple there accept the תקנה as תורה מסיני. The leaders of the community are not to blame; they too believe so.
I personally know the victim who is a hard working individual (a real job!) and a mensch. However, he picked and chose what to follow and what not to; a big no no in New Square.
Anyone here remembers what went on there 30 years ago? Anyway, 'nough said.
I wish Chaim Aaron a speedy recovery.

[Flatbusher]

They want their cake and eat it too. 'Take' Millions $$$$ from all branches of Govt. by hooker or crooker, but thumb their noses at the establishment clause. They feel they have the politicos in their pocket by block voting.

But watch what happens when the FBI gets involved, the media screams Taliban, and these fair weather political friends throw them under the bus.

[A E ANDERSON]

To organise in a concerted manner to ban somebody from the public streets, from real estate occupancy and ownership and all the details that go with this, on grounds of religion, raises serious civil and criminal civil rights issues. Not only should the Justice Department consider an investigation, but the clearly injured victim would be well advised to seek counsel with an eye toward recovery of substantial damages from the organised Skverer conspiracy.

That Skver schools and institutions receive substantial public monies for their operation would seem, in my mind, to diminish their ability even to ban this individual even from what would otherwise be, in the absence of public funding, private, consensual activities and facilities.

Simply put, neither Rebbe Skver nor the Bhagwan nor the Rubashkin can descend en masse on a town, swamp its electoral roles, and declare a theocracy to the exclusion of the rights of individuals.

Obviously, they have constituted themselves a powerful electoral bloc, thereby avoiding scrutiny and regulation at the NY state level. Perhaps the federal courts will feel less friendly towards this religion racket.

[A E ANDERSON]

N.B. - The vituperation and venom which inspires and infuses these Skverer conspirators against civil rights in my mind removes them from the normal degree of respect and consideration afforded to genuine religious groups and denominations. The recent outbreak of violence suggests that they may well have acted out of a degree of hate approaching that of the Ku Klux Klan in times past.

I wouldn't be surprised if the victims are already deluged by solicitations from tort lawyers. Their pockets seem deep even without that tantalising taxing district.

[Seraphya]

Feds? Wouldn't it be more of a thing for state police to investigate?

[Shlomo]

Something has been missed here. In the first reports it was said there were 2 or 3 perps involved and that 2 got away and only one caught. What happened the the other two and who are they.
Another site commentator says that the bocher was elsewhere because he didn't want to police to know and so he went to the skver first aid centre which regularly deals with assaulted spouses/children and doesn't have mandatory reporting.
This whole episode should wake up the chassidic community w\to what complete isolation and blind allegiance leads to

[A. Nuran]

Violations of even more of his civil rights.

These bastards are not Cossacks who can expel people from their homes. They live in a country where that's illegal. I'm thinking RICO here. Synagogue Board, Beis Din, the whole shooting match.

[Jeff]

I think it is time that they get the Waco treatment - this is really starting to resemble a frightening insular insane sect/cult that needs to be broken up

I agree. As someone else said, this is the reason these communities shouldn't be allowed to exist. If nothing else, the perpetuation of their way of life constitutes child abuse.

[soso]

was this letter addressed to the victim of the arson attack, or is there no connection?

[David]

New Square isn't a private, gated community (or is it?)

My understanding is that it is an incorporated village BUT I have been told that the Skverer Rebbe owns all, or most of the land and people pay rent to him. Does anyone know if that is true?

[Rachel]

Yes David the land is owned by the cong and it Sells its members with conditions that they will abide by the cong bylaws. Therefore they feel that they have a right to enforce what the person signed when he or she bought land to built upon thru have the best council money can buy. They have utilized this tactic many times in 30 plus years of the village exsistance

[jancsipista]

yechiel- is aron rottenberg the son of aizik who was killed in australia last year in an accident? if he is his father and i worked toghether over 35 years ago.

[Rochel]

I wonder if this is the type of thing that the ACLU gets involved in. I am now wondering if the Skerver community will somehow try to intimidate Rottenberg's (the victim's) immediate or extended family from taking any action and just make them silently go away. They are a mafia, plain and simple - it reminds me of some of the Soprano episodes I saw.

I agree Shmarya, the feds need to get involved. I wonder if this is a sexy enough story to get sustained, national news coverage, whether in the mainstream media or the Jewish media.

[seymour]

yes the feds need to be involved since locallt to many are in bed with sker

but how to get this story to the feds or how to get this story to the national press or a TV news

that is my question

[seymour]

a disturbing thought crossed my mind reading this letter

there was a question if hatzolah was called and why did they not show up.
I just figured hatzolah was not called

however after reading this letter I can see the local hatzolah being called and not responding.

Maybe the people who live in the ny area like me can hold a rally in front of the house to support the family

any thoughts

[WoolSilkCotton]

The document shown at the top of this thread, with a translation, can be mailed (or e-mailed) to all the regional NY newspapers, TV news stations, and the state police.

Start with the NY Daily News, the NY Post, the LoHud newspaper website,and the NY State Police.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Look how fast the photo with Hillary erased was spread.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Seymour, Shomrim and Hatzoloh do not give a sh!t about victims who are not part of the 'in' crowd.

Shomrim will not respond, or will not involve the police, if it is a crime committed by holy frumma against 'others'.

I'm sure Hatzoloh wasn't called by anybody, and if they were, that house is probably blacklisted, and they will get no service.

In fact, both groups have fought hard to prevent police from sharing their radio broadcasting frequency, so that the police will not be able to know what Shomrim and Hatzoloh are up to.

[seymour]

The document shown at the top of this thread, with a translation, can be mailed (or e-mailed) to all the regional NY newspapers, TV news stations, and the state police.

Start with the NY Daily News, the NY Post, the LoHud newspaper website,and the NY State Police.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | May 24, 2011 at 07:52 AM

I emailed the NT TImes
Jpost will do more later
washigton post the person who wrote about clinton

[Rochel]

If you email it to a news source, please post the email address here so others can easily and quickly email it too.

[OMG]

Drudge picked up the store

[OMG]

sorry should say "story"

[seymour]

Seymour, Shomrim and Hatzoloh do not give a sh!t about victims who are not part of the 'in' crowd.

Shomrim will not respond, or will not involve the police, if it is a crime committed by holy frumma against 'others'.

I'm sure Hatzoloh wasn't called by anybody, and if they were, that house is probably blacklisted, and they will get no service.

In fact, both groups have fought hard to prevent police from sharing their radio broadcasting frequency, so that the police will not be able to know what Shomrim and Hatzoloh are up to.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | May 24, 2011 at 08:00 AM

These people act like the tribal warlords in Afghanistan.

A little of subject.

When I was frum many years ago a dog was hit by a car on shobbos the driver stopped and asked peole to help him pick up the dog so he can take it to a vet.
All the frummies walk by ignoring him he looked stunned to say the list.

My friend and i walked by to see what was going on. We figured whatever rules someone may come up with it does not apply to this. and anyway we said do you know how bad this looks. So we helped the guy, he was a real mensh and ran off to the vet. PS not his dog.

I can still see the dirty looks.

maybe that was the beginning to finally see how crazy my community was

[seymour]

nytnews@nytimes.com
letters@jpost.com
liat@jpost.com
wpblogpost@gmail.com

might not be the best emails but if they get a few I am sure they will forward it

[seymour]

from the gothamist

Here in NYC, when Hasidim attack, the violence is usually reduced to running goy cyclists off the road or fisticuffs over Satmar schisms. But up in Rockland County, it's all HDP (Hasids Don't Play). An orthodox Jewish father of four is currently hospitalized with third-degree burns over 50 percent of his body after another orthodox Jew allegedly tried to burn his house down—because he started taking his family to a different synagogue.

Aron Rottenberg's family has been subjected to violence ever since they left the village’s main synagogue to worship elsewhere. Six months ago their car windows were smashed, and then earlier this month someone broke windows in their house. For security, they installed surveillance cameras, which is how Rottenberg discovered 18-year-old Shaul Spitzer allegedly pouring flammable liquid around his house, at approximately 4 a.m. Sunday morning.

Rottenberg confronted Spitzer in his backyard, and in the ensuing tussle, a long, improvised fuse in Spitzer's hand sparked flames. Spitzer wound up in a burn unit in NYC, while Rottenberg was taken to Westchester Medical Center, where his family is now gathered because they are terrified to go home. "Doing your own thing, that is not something they can take,” Rottenberg's son-in-law tells CBS 2. “They don’t like that, because it’s showing people can do what they want to do." Reached for comment, former Rockland County resident Katie Sokoler was surprised by the news, and says, "I remember the good old days when they used to just stone you for doing something wrong." (To be fair, Sokoler has been known to dress immodestly.)

[Alan Katan]

Shlomo | May 24, 2011 at 01:00 AM

>>> You are wrong! In NY State, every EMT is a mandated reporter and as such, they did the right thing by not "sweeping this under the rug". Credit goes to them.

[WoolSilkCotton]

++Alan Katan | May 24, 2011 at 09:25 AM++

What are you talking about? Hatzoloh reported nothing about Spitzer. They are indeed 'mandated reporters', a law which they routinely ignore in order to cover for their fellow frumma.

[seymour]

++Alan Katan | May 24, 2011 at 09:25 AM++

What are you talking about? Hatzoloh reported nothing about Spitzer. They are indeed 'mandated reporters', a law which they routinely ignore in order to cover for their fellow frumma.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | May 24, 2011 at 09:30 AM

alan

thing we are that stuoid

Hatzoloh never showed up

what are you talking about

[seymour]

alan

think we are that stupid

Hatzoloh never showed up

what are you talking about

[Devorah]

"My understanding is that it is an incorporated village BUT I have been told that the Skverer Rebbe owns all, or most of the land and people pay rent to him. Does anyone know if that is true"?

Posted by: David

The Shul owns most of the property and sells or rents to the people. No property taxes are paid because the Shul owns the land. Many houses are Section 8 (owned by dummy corporations) which are also owned by the Shul, so the Shul is double dipping. Section 8 housing with granite countertops, marble floors, Bosch and Thermador ovens. Comprende?

[Yankel]

Who will throw the first stone and call the feds?

[LF]

That is some d*mning evidence. Actually, a friend in NS showed me this last year. Looks like a major civil rights case against the Village and its leaders by the victim. The reaction of the local officials borders on collusion. The police records clearly indicate past incidences and videos have been posted all over the internet showing demonstrations at this poor man home with 100's in attendance. Hypocrisy reigns here when you compare this to the recent Airmont decision regarding religious rights. Where is RLUPA to help this man freely practice his religion?

[Leibel Schenkel]

It IS a gated community.

[Gevezener Chusid]

I remember that when the Chernobyl disaster took place in 1986, a joke circulated in the Hassidic community (Skver is descended from the Chernobler chassidic dynasty) Loses something in translation from Yiddish (both linguistically and culturally), but you can get the point:
"When the explosion took place the Skverer Rebbe phoned Gorbachev to thank him for making Chernobyl famous throughout the entire world. Gorbachev, in turn thanked the Rebbe for making totalitarianism known among the Jews."

[Gevezener Chusid]

Someone should do a better translation before sending it to any news media.

[LF]

It is not a gated community. The roads are public roads. This was a huge issue in 1961 when the Village incorporated. The Town insisted that the roads be dedicated before they allowed NS to incorporate. Just read the Times article done in the 70's. It is on-line.

[Rochel]

This article I just found from 2005 tells about banning women from the front seat of a car and compares it to Saudi Arabia. It also mentions other rules and how transgression might lead to expulsion from the community. Here is another edict:

"The recent document in New Square addressed a wide range of prohibitions." (snip) "Another states that exercise groups can be formed only with the permission of a rabbinical court and that they require a mashgiach (religious inspector) to oversee them."

http://www.forward.com/articles/2065/

[David]

Its shocking how these people have perverted the Jewish religion.

[A Yid]

Shmaryah comments:
>>>
New Square isn't a private, gated community (or is it?) so they cannot throw someone out - there is still a division of church and state in this country.

That's why I highlighted those parts of the letter.

The feds need to investigate this.

Posted by: Shmarya | May 23, 2011 at 11:13 PM
<<<
A religious community is not legally prohibited from ostracizing an individual till he is so uncomfortable living there he voluntarily moves out. Likewise they can ban him from synagogues and other religious facilities they control.
Now if one can prove that more than that was going on you may have a case otherwise it is hard to see what US laws were broken by this proclamation of their Beis Din.
PS. If they have some programs funded by the government that contractually obligate them to provide access to everyone such as food distribution or the like they obviously can't ban him from access to those programs and the parts of the buildings where these are located.

[A. Nuran]

A Yid, in the United States it is a crime to keep someone from exercising his civil rights. These include the right to travel freely in public and to associate freely. They very explicitly ordered their people to deny him the right to enter public, not private, buildings. They announced their intention to drive him out of the town in which he resided based on his non-criminal religious practices.

Once again, conspiracy to deny someone his civil rights is a very serious crime.

[A Yid]

B"H
You can't take words out of context and build a federal case based on that.
The complete sentence lists the type of public or rather religious communal buildings they are banning him from shul , mikvah , religious school etc. It's clear that according to US law these buildings are controlled by the leadership of the respective religious corporations governing them and these are likely subordinated to the New Skvere Beis Din based on their corporate bylaws. Thus this letter doesn't by itself have any evidence of a crime on the part of their Beis Din.
In fact one could argue that it is the Sqverers thru their Beis Din are in fact exercising their rights to freely practice their religion as well as the freedom of association.
Of course the arsonist should be condemned and will be prosecuted but this letter doesn't contain any evidence of the Sqverer leadership's complicity in his crimes.

[Gevezener Chusid]

It is not all that different from the Amish or Mormons who "shun" those who choose to swim against the prevailing currents in their communities.

Why anyone would want to live with these nutcases is a mystery to me.

[Jeff]

Why anyone would want to live with these nutcases is a mystery to me.

According to what some have been saying here, it may be that you have to leave everything behind. He might not have been able to afford to leave.

As to why they'd move there in the first place - why were so many people convinced the Rapture was going to happen the other day? Why does anyone do anything? Heredity, environment, desperation - it's all too complicated to parse out. Humanity is collectively insane.

[masortiman]

"The complete sentence lists the type of public or rather religious communal buildings they are banning him from shul , mikvah , religious school etc. "

That in itself would not be civil rights violation. However it adds context to whats happened, showing there was officially expressed and implemented (if legal) hostility to Rotenberg. Add to that the various illegal incidents of harassment that occurred prior to the arson, and the lack of response from the leaders of the Skver community. Its not proof of a civil rights violation - but it seems to me that it certainly warrants an investigation.

[survivor]

so if one cant daven any where else do they at least bring the older ppl to their shul to daven wiht them? or are they left to fend for htemselves? and if so how is that even remotely jewish? as far as i am aware the torah says Kabed es Avicha.....or are they to be left on the streets just like the little children who theydont seem to care about either? what has become of the jewish nation?????
if anyone has an answer i would luv to understand