Haredim Demand Jerusalem Withdraw Support From Opera Festival Because Some Performances Held In Churches

Last week the four Jerusalem deputy mayors - three ultra-Orthodox and one Orthodox Zionist - submitted a motion to the city council demanding that the city refrain from initiating or promoting events that could cause Jews to violate religious prohibitions. "Extra caution shall be exercised when holding events in churches and other locations that Jews are forbidden to enter, on pain of death, by virtue of the prohibition against idol worship," the motion stated.

 

Despite Haredi opposition, Barkat lends his voice to operas performed in church
Jerusalem deputy mayors pressure Mayor Nir Barkat to withdraw funding from opera festival; Barkat agrees to remove city's logo from some publicity materials, but program of festival will not be changed.
By Nir Hasson • Ha’aretz

Four of Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat's deputies have asked him to withdraw municipal sponsorship from a June opera festival in the capital because some of the performances will be held in churches, opening up a new front in Jerusalem's religious wars.

Barkat has agreed to consider removing the city's logo from some of the publicity materials, but told religious officials that the program itself will not be changed.

Last week the four deputy mayors - three are ultra-Orthodox and the other is religious Zionist - submitted a motion to the city council demanding that municipal bodies refrain from initiating or promoting events that could cause Jews to violate religious prohibitions.

"Extra caution shall be exercised when holding events in churches and other locations that Jews are forbidden to enter, on pain of death, by virtue of the prohibition against idol worship," the motion stated.

Meretz party representatives on the city council sent a letter to Barkat expressing their displeasure with the motion advanced by their religious colleagues.

"It's time the Haredim realized that Jerusalem is not a city bound by religious law, but rather a free city that lives in compliance with the Declaration of Independence, and that they do not have a monopoly on the Jewish religion," the council members said.

The festival, which will take place June 2-6 and is being produced by the Israeli Opera with the support of the Jerusalem municipality, the Jerusalem Development Authority and other institutions, is to include around 30 performances in various sites around the capital, including several churches.

Some of the performances are scheduled to take place on Shabbat, another bone of contention for Haredim.

In meetings this week with the deputy mayors opposed to the church performances and with the rabbi of the Western Wall, Shmuel Rabinowitz, Barkat made it clear that he had no intention of changing the program of the festival and said similar events had been held in Jerusalem churches, with the city's support, during the term of his Haredi predecessor, Uri Lupolianski.

Nevertheless, Barkat was apparently leaning toward agreeing to remove the city's seal from the few promotional materials for the festival that have not yet been distributed.

"As is known, there are Jews, Christians and Muslims living in the united city of Jerusalem," the municipality said in a statement. "The Jerusalem municipality and the government of Israel are committed to acting with sensitivity and to taking into consideration all of the populations, demographic groups, visitors and tourists in the city."

Comments

[dlz]

on pain of death, by virtue of the prohibition against idol worship," the motion stated.
Whatever "on pain of death" means, it is a mistake. There is no death penalty for simply entering a church, and in case of danger it is permitted to enter a church to save oneself.

[jay]

Remeniscent of the Afghan Taliban- they destroyed magnificent Buddhas that were 1000s of years old.

[the usual chaim]

its a bit simplistic. only the rambam considers christianity actual idolatry. most other medieval writers considered it an erroneous monotheism, but a form of monotheism nonetheless. but we dont follow the rambam 100% so why here, espcially when he could not possibly have based his judgement on personal encounters with christian theologians so as to form an accurate opinion, since there were none in his social millieu

[Adam Neira]

The prophecies state that all people will end up worshipping the one G-d. Jerusalem should be the epicentre of this new global paradigm.

[seymour]

"Extra caution shall be exercised when holding events in churches and other locations that Jews are forbidden to enter, on pain of death, by virtue of the prohibition against idol worship,"

many Jews visit churches and had no pain and still alive

in addition they are going there for a show not to idol worship

In addition as a kabbalist I will make a prediction before it happens.

Withing the next week the herdiem will do something or say something really stupid

[seymour]

its a bit simplistic. only the rambam considers christianity actual idolatry. most other medieval writers considered it an erroneous monotheism, but a form of monotheism nonetheless. but we dont follow the rambam 100% so why here, espcially when he could not possibly have based his judgement on personal encounters with christian theologians so as to form an accurate opinion, since there were none in his social millieu

Posted by: the usual chaim | May 11, 2011 at 06:28 AM

because the heredeim do exactly what they claim the reform does

they pick and choose

[Dave]

Seymour, it's true that haredim and reform both pick and choose.
However, I'm 100% with the Rambam on this one. Entering a church, for purposes other than voting, is giving tacit acceptance to idolatry, in my humble opinion.

[Jeff]

Withing the next week the herdiem will do something or say something really stupid

Oh, Seymour - it won't take that long.

"Extra caution shall be exercised when holding events in churches and other locations that Jews are forbidden to enter, on pain of death, by virtue of the prohibition against idol worship," the motion stated.

Typical. Someone does something we don't like - kill him.

Ladies and gentlemen - Judaism.

If you nurse at the government teat, you don't get to call the shots. They really don't get that, do they?

[Jeff]

Entering a church, for purposes other than voting, is giving tacit acceptance to idolatry, in my humble opinion.

Posted by: Dave | May 11, 2011 at 07:22 AM

Dave, what about for the purpose of giving a talk on Judaism to a group of interested liberal Christians (or any other form of what is now called "interfaith dialogue)? I know an MO rabbi, very strict (almost Haredi) in his observance, who's done that on more than one occasion.

Or, to use a more (to me) odious example - what about Rabbi Eckstein speaking to groups of evangelicals to raise funds for needy Jews?

Frankly, I find it FAR more offensive that my Chabdnik nephew refuses to enter a non-Orthodox shul, even for purposes other than worship.

[Commentator]

Well, there is an issur observed by some on entering churches, and we should surely respect that. BUT -- what is breathtakingly stupid here is the language that these idiots use in a public - civic - resolution! How offensive can you get??????????? and these are the deputy mayors of JERUSALEM, of all places -- you might expect a tiny drop of sensitivity to the city's religious makeup.

I give up.

[masortiman]

My understanding is that the traditional penalty for entering a church (not maintained by Masorti, but I dont have the tshuva handy) is a 40 day fast. Now a 40 day fast would I guess often be fatal - BUT you could override it by going to Siyyum every day, no? Are there really few Siyyums in Jerusalem? Who'd a thunk it?

[masortiman]

"Frankly, I find it FAR more offensive that my Chabdnik nephew refuses to enter a non-Orthodox shul, even for purposes other than worship"

I know a chabad shaliach who entered a Cons shul to eulogize someone who belonged to both congregations. Maybe he had a Heter Kiruv?

[masortiman]

a tshuva for you

http://www.responsafortoday.com/engsums/6_13.htm

[Jeff]

From the responsa: some authorities say that Christianity is not idolatry for Christians, but it is for the Jews.

This last opinion does not seem to make sense. If a certain form of worship is idolatry, it should be forbidden to non-Jews as well, since idolatry is one of the seven Noachide Laws.

Yitz Greenberg has a different take on it. He's spent decades developing a Jewish theology of Christianity. I think he does regard it as idolatry for Jews (certainly impermissible, in any case), but not for the gentiles; he believes it to be God's revelation to them.

Of course, I don't care. I no longer go into either church or shul, but if I did, I'd refuse to allow a group of repressed old men who haven't left their studies in fifty years to tell me where I may or may not go.

[Mike]

Britain's Chief Rabbi J Sacks was present in the church at the recent royal wedding.

[Jeff]

I know a chabad shaliach who entered a Cons shul to eulogize someone who belonged to both congregations. Maybe he had a Heter Kiruv?

I know. They go into frei shuls to teach, for that purpose. I've tried to tell him this. Whatever he does or refuses to do, he has a pronouncement from the Rebbe to back it up. I've suggested it may be only what they tell him the Rebbe said; he claims everything the Rebbe ever said is written down, so no one can fabricate anything.

Go talk to a wall; you'll get farther.

(Perhaps the Conservative guy was a big donor. I'm sure there's a heter for that!)

[Jeff]

Britain's Chief Rabbi J Sacks was present in the church at the recent royal wedding.

Yes, but I think he's supposed to be Modern Orthodox (at least nominally), and, as we all know, they aren't really frum!

[Teddy]

Dave, why do you make an exception for voting? And not, for instance, for visiting a show about the life of a French Jewish artist? I have done both.

[masortiman]

" If a certain form of worship is idolatry, it should be forbidden to non-Jews as well, since idolatry is one of the seven Noachide Laws.

Yitz Greenberg has a different take on it. He's spent decades developing a Jewish theology of Christianity. I think he does regard it as idolatry for Jews (certainly impermissible, in any case), but not for the gentiles; he believes it to be God's revelation to them."

But see if its not idolatry, then why is ENTERING a church (as opposed to believing in Christianity) forbidden. A Jew is forbidden to become a muslim (though famously Ramban allows that for pikuach nefesh) but all authorities (IIUC) allow one to enter a mosque. So why can't I enter a church, not to pray, but to attend an opera, or to show my respects at a funeral?

IIUC the tshuva allows one to enter a church even for a regular service, as long as one does not participate in the prayers. Not having cravings for comparative religion explorations, I am machmir - I only attend a church SERVICE (as opposed to say musical performance) if its a life cycle event of someone I know, or for an interfaith service that advances shalom in the community.

[masortiman]

"(Perhaps the Conservative guy was a big donor. I'm sure there's a heter for that!)"

he was a donor in both communities, and an active volunteer in both communities. An all around mensch.

[Jeff]

But see if its not idolatry, then why is ENTERING a church

Right, that's my point. Yitz doesn't see it as forbidden, but he and his wife, Blu, and Avi Weiss represent the last vestiges of a Modern Orthodoxy that for all practical purposes has ceased to exist - an orthodoxy that embraced secular culture and higher education, and wasn't afraid to reach out to the other. It's gone, now - the Haredim have killed it - and it ain't coming back.

[jay]

I was invited to a wedding in a Catholic Church. It was my first and last time in a Church service. I found it to be extremely uncomfortable. I can't speak for Protestant or Baptist churches, but IMO a Jew doesn't belong in a Catholic Church. They're filled with idols.

[A. Nuran]

jay - and their Kiddush is one cracker and a sip of wine.

[masortiman]

well now as an artlover, I like the idols, if they are well done. Ive been to a couple of big old Catholic or Episcopal cathedrals in the US, and would love to visit some gothic cathedral in europe. (though the idol free congregationalist churches of new england can be charming) Its more the services that bother me. Even the life cycle ones. At a Jewish funeral, we have a couple of prayers, some tehillim, and LOTS of talk about the deceased. At christian services, its jesus this, and heaven that. I realize that death has different theological significance for them, but still.

[tooclose2detroit]

hell, the catholic churches have to be used for something these days-they are closing all over the world, from lack of interest.

[Hank Shrier]

When you don't want to visit a church for a performance, Don't go. You worry about your soul and let the rest of us worry about ours. Now for those interested in a middle ground, perhaps the Churches would consider covering the Crucifixes during the performances. We need to respect the beliefs and religious sensibilities of all of Jerusalem's many citizen. I'm sure some of our neighbors are offended by people burning tires or by people throwing used diapers to express outrage.

People who don't care for the cultural diversity are welcome to find other places to live. I say, Live and let live.