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May 09, 2011

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Evelyn Sacks

Why not have Eric Cantor and the rest of congress, live just the way they want us o live. As a Jewish Senior, I'm frightened for my children, grandchildren and my husband and myself. Shame on him and the rest of the congressman who are NOT willing to compromise.

itchiemayer

Some of you sure have a lot of faith in the Government to spend your money wisely. It's funny how in '08 there was a report on how little charity the Gores and Obamas had given to charity over several years. The heck with charity, just let the Govt. take the money and dole it out to those they think need it, or to those that they think they can buy, or both.
There is nothing wrong with being idealistic, but it is not a practical way to run a successful country.
Frankly, I think this post on Eric Kantor is a little silly. I don't think the Torah deals with a Jew's supporting of illegal aliens and second, third, and fourth generation welfare families whether they be in the dangerous streets of Detroit and St. Louis, or the pure, holy streets of Kiryas Yoel.

Jeff

Cafeteria Catholic -

thanks for the post. its interesting to hear of parallels amongst religions and their adherents.

Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | May 09, 2011 at 06:59 PM

Seconded

Shmarya

A flat tax in the 10% range seems fair. That should cover national and internal security, other essential communal needs, as well as basic staples for the truly needy.
Shmarya,
Would the above be an accurate Torah view?

Posted by: corn popper | May 09, 2011 at 01:21 PM


No.

In practice, a basic system like that was once used, I think, but it was regularly supplemented by special funding requests made to the rich and upper middle class. And it was also supplemented by tzedaka.

A more common system was a tax on all kosher meat supplemented by special appeals to the rich, community-wide fundraising drives, and tzedaka.

Jeff

Shmarya, do you remember what we said several weeks ago about the character of the Jewish community and whether or not it would be advisable to simply allow it to self-destruct? The comments here by knee-jerk right-wingers comprise Exhibit A.

ah-pee-chorus

Cafeteria Catholic -

thanks for the post. its interesting to hear of parallels amongst religions and their adherents.

Cafeteria Catholic

I've been reading this site for about an hour and 1/2. I stumbled on it through the articles about Der Tzitung "disappearing" Hilary Clinton in that photo about the Bin laden mission. Very interesting site, even though much (but less that you would think) is over my head. I find it very soothing, in the misery-loves-company sense. I am Roman Catholic, and oh, boy I feel your pain. While the average Catholic is probably not as knowledgeable about Catholicism/Christianity as the average Jew is about Judiasm, there are so darn many of us that we have blogs and blogs and websites and websites where we can argue and commiserate about our right-wing brethen. We have lots of articles and ads in the NYT we can gnash our teeth on. Catholicism is not fundamentalist (i.e., the world is 5000 years old) but has a long history of fighting with science. Actually has done pretty well compared to much of Christianity. Just like Jews wince when a Jew is in the public eye about some scandal or crime, Catholics wince in our situations. I guess my point is that these discussions seems to be part of the human condition as we wrestle with the nature of God and the world. My best wishes!

Bartley Kulp

Shmarya, I the Torah does not specify how a society should be run on a national level. There are halachot that deal with issues on a municiple level or smaller. Anything greater than that is beyond the scope of specific halacha.

Lamed Vovnik

Yes, the government wastes money that goes to people who may not all deserve it. But, we now spend $2 billion a WEEK on the war in Afghanistan so that Karzai and his friends and family can all buy more property in Dubai at the expense of the American taxpayer. Would you prefer your money goes there instead of Medicare?

nachos

The only thing I know is that I can't make progress saving for higher medicare premiums because Ben Bernanke is artificially depressing interest rates below the rate of inflation to keep the yield curve steep.

For those of you that will not accept higher taxes to pay for the war and Medicare Part D, get used to the decline inthe purchasing power of our currency. Inflation is a tax.

Shmarya

Posted by: YEA | May 09, 2011 at 01:45 PM

You make no sense.

People who are legitimately poor should be helped.

People who choose not to work should not.

When it is unclear what a person is doing, choosing to be idle or really poor, that person must be helped.

YEA

So Shmarya, do you think that the Israeli government taking money from the rich and giving it to poor Charedi families sitting in kollel is a Jewish value? I certainly don't think it is. But I guess that you only think it's a Jewish value when the American government forcibly takes money from the rich people in this country and gives it to people to whom it does not belong with the message of "your'e entitled to it", enabling them to engage in the productive activity of sitting at home and watching the morons on "The View".

nachos

Where are the jobs that the rich have created?

Garnel Ironheart

Oh please. It is a Jewish duty to help the poor but there is no Jewish "value" that says the government must charge high taxes and soak the rich to do it.
If the government cuts taxes, thereby encouraging the rich to create jobs and, at the same time makes being on welfare less lucrative than entry level jobs thereby encouraging the poor to seek out work more aggressively then it is reflecting Jewish values.

corn popper

The failure of Communism and the Kibbutz movement bear out the fact that, not working hard - for yourself - to make a profit, is counterproductive.
In that vein there should be no difference between the able bodied bum or the Kollel guy waiting for his taxpayer sponsored (government coerced) handout.
A flat tax in the 10% range seems fair. That should cover national and internal security, other essential communal needs, as well as basic staples for the truly needy.
Shmarya,
Would the above be an accurate Torah view?

nachos

A flat tax - everyone should pay 10% - sounds Jewish to me.

Posted by: itchiemayer | May 09, 2011 at 12:33 PM

Itchiemeyer:

What about the fact that we are currently fighting a war on three fronts. Two of those fronts President Bush got us into. If the war is worth fighting, then why isn't it worth paying for. Why is it that the ony people that are sacrificing for the war are the guys fighting it?

itchiemayer

Do social programs help the poor or perpetuate the poor? There is lots of evidence for the latter.

itchiemayer

A flat tax - everyone should pay 10% - sounds Jewish to me.

Rav  A.J.

Do people know that the Democrats just passed a sixty million dollar bill to fund the yeshivos for Higher Education.

The funds will be spent to teach students how to prepare a red cow to cleanse a person who is not pure.
Some funds will be used to teach all details of animal sacifices, and exactly which sounds one should make with the Shofar.

Dov Hikind call this a victory for EDUCATION.

The American Tax-Payers really have many Mitzvohs.

Jeff

Krinsky is a farce and a fake and is bringing down the high chasidic standards of this organization.

Seriously? What "high chasidic standards"?

Stop regurgitating the dems talking pont!

Since when did you become an authority on Jewish values?
This is one of the most pathetic political cheap shots you've taken, and that's no small thing.

No, Shmarya is absolutely correct. Care for the poor and downtrodden used to be one of our core values. There was a time at which most of us understood that. Once Reagan got in, everything changed. The economy was artificially inflated for several years, and everyone made money hand over fist. Those of modest means became wealthy; those who were already rich became obscenely so. Suddenly, generations of immigrant experience, of identifying with the disenfranchised, went right out the window.

Cantor certainly does NOT embody Jewish values - unless we're going to redefine "Jewish values" to mean screwing the poor, cozying up to the Christian Right and hanging out with a self-promoting, self-appointed "expert" on ethics and morality.

ah-pee-chorus

since torah values regarding helping your fellow man mostly apply only to fellow jews, it is completely in keeping with these values to cut from all the programs intended to help the poor while ensuring that exceptions are made for predominately haredi enclaves in return for bloc- votes.
so....yes...this would be in keeping with torah values. however since most jews thankfully reject these torah values and tend to be more compassionate to non-jews than is required by the torah, and historically voted democratic, this would NOT be in keeping with 'jewish' values.

David

Since when did you become an authority on Jewish values?
This is one of the most pathetic political cheap shots you've taken, and that's no small thing.
Either argue with the man's views, or ignore them, but don't act like you're the posek ha-dor, and that you've pronounced them incompatible with a religion you no longer even pretend to practice.

uncle sam

Yeah, let's give even more $$ to the poor - in fact let's triple what we give them? No, because there's line drawing between helping out and going bankrupt? So maybe a responsible Jew can draw that line? But clearly not the author of this article.

Stop regurgitating the dems talking pont!

Lamed Vovnik

Eric Cantor the "fiscally responsible deficit hawk" voted for a trillion $ in tax cuts with no way to pay for the lost revenue except by increasing the deficit. Also voted for 2 wars with no way to pay for them except through deficits. But, if we get rid of Medicare it will all be OK. And don't forget his party to ban all abortion, contraception. That's what he stands for....besides his own career.

Moshe

these pictures are a source of major embarassment to Chabad and its shluchim ( for many reasons too difficult to get into without writing a megillah). I understand the position Krinsky may have found himself to be in but that's what differentiates the real people from the weaklings who make money their god.
Krinsky is a farce and a fake and is bringing down the high chasidic standards of this organization. As he said the last time he opened up his trap - gone with the wind - should be the motto of Chabad - get rid of this imbecile who should go back to being a taxi driver.

Rav  A.J.

Well, I was hoping that the writer of the article was sarcastic, when he admires Democrats for giving our money, to young healthy people, without even questioning, "Why don't you have a propper earnings? Why aren't you taking a job?".

seymour

Currently, there are approx 30,000 Kollel Yungerliet who are living on Govt programs.

Food Stamps, Sec 8, Vouchers, Medicaid, HEAP, Earned Income Credit, WIC, Welfare, Etc, add up to about $40,000 annually.

That enables these fathers of many children, to continue to learn peacefully, and with a Geshmak.

Posted by: Rav A.J. | May 09, 2011 at 08:09 AM

I hope you are being sarcastic

Rav  A.J.

Currently, there are approx 30,000 Kollel Yungerliet who are living on Govt programs.

Food Stamps, Sec 8, Vouchers, Medicaid, HEAP, Earned Income Credit, WIC, Welfare, Etc, add up to about $40,000 annually.

That enables these fathers of many children, to continue to learn peacefully, and with a Geshmak.

Norm

I'm all for cuting health and welfare benefits to scam cities like Kiryas Joel and its fellow travelers-I'd like to see a reporter ask Rep Cantor how he feels about cities where the average house price is $300k but have the highest use of food stamps in the county.

seymour

Cantor,

what it view on gay marriage, and other such issues that are very important to some in the frum Jewish society

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