Does Agudath Israel Of America Set The Brooklyn D.A.'s Policy On Reporting Child Sex Abuse?

New York State law says that mandatory reporters who suspect a child has been sexually abused have to report that suspicion to police or to child services. Agudah says Jewish mandatory reporters should not follow New York law, and a spokesperson for the Brooklyn DA refuses to say the DA will enforce the law against mandatory reporters who follow Agudah's dictate rather than the law.

 

The Forward has a new piece on Agudath Israel of America's position on reporting child sexual abuse to police or government child welfare services.

As I reported last week, Agudah held a halakha conference that granted CLE credits. At that conference, Agudah's position on reporting child sexual abuse was that in all cases of suspected child sexual abuse you must first ask a rabbi before reporting the suspected abuse to police.

In other words, except in cases where there is absolutely no doubt sexual abuse took place – for example, you walk into a room and find Rabbi X raping a 7-year-old – a rabbi (or, better yet, Agudah said, a beit din, religious court) has to give you permission to report the abuse to law enforcement or government child welfare services. And this holds true even if you are a legally mandated reporter.

The Forward picked up on this. (The Forward does not cite me or any other source, which hopefully means their reporter was at the conference and not that their reporter took the relevant information from my blog, like the audio of that conference session I posted, or from some other site without crediting us.)

The Forward's reporter called Agudah's executive VP Rabbi Chaim David Zwiebel for comment.

Here is what Zwiebel told him:

“If somebody just comes and makes a claim, that’s not a sufficient basis to invoke the tikkun olam [benefit to society] reason for overriding the general prohibition against mesirah,” Zwiebel elaborated in a telephone interview with the Forward. There must first be “some circumstantial evidence or something that would appear to bolster the claim.”

Zwiebel said that only rabbis who are specialists in the area of abuse should be consulted, though he acknowledged that no registry or designation of such rabbis currently exists. He said Agudah is “looking into developing, at least internally, some sort of database” that could be useful under such circumstances.

“We are dealing with a community that has standards established a millennia ago,” Zwiebel said. “At the end of the day, as a community that feels itself bound by Torah, it still is the case that we have to think about questions like mesirah [informing on a Jew to non-Jewish authorities] and about the relevance of Halacha in determining these kinds of issues.”

To be clear, what Zwiebel is saying is that the standard signs of sexual abuse used by therapists and law enforcement to identify potential victims and begin investigations to determine if abuse took place would not be enough for Zwiebel's rabbis to permit reporting suspected abuse to police.

In the same way, a young child who says, "Rabbi X pulled off my pants and rubbed my schmekel," would not warrant calling police, because there is no physical or circumstantial evidence and the child is, a) a child and therefore not a valid witness, and b) falls under Zwiebel's statement, "If somebody just comes and makes a claim, that’s not a sufficient basis…"

In other words, cases where there are semen stains on the child's clothes, bleeding from the child's anus, or a neighbor witnessing the abuse in progress could be authorized by rabbis and then reported to police.

But most cases, the vast majority of cases, could not be reported. And that is true even though of these cases, the vast majority would lead to proof of guilt and a conviction.

What Zwiebel and his rabbinic backers have done is to preclude most law enforcement investigations and therefore keep most child sexual abusers out of prison – in some cases, keep them out of prison and in haredi schools as teachers, rebbes, and, sometimes, rosh yeshivas.

All this to honor a Jewish law, the prohibition of mesira, informing, that was meant to save Jews from unjust punishment at the hands of non-democratic, antisemitic governments. It was never meant to be used to protect child rapists or other Jewish criminals who hurt defenseless people.

Agudah is making a choice. It has chosen to protect child rapists but not protect children.

In New Jersey, where many conference participants live, this choice of Agudah's is against the law:

Marlene Lynch Ford, the Ocean County prosecutor whose jurisdiction includes the large strictly Orthodox enclave of Lakewood, said that the advice given at the Agudah conference could violate New Jersey law.

“It sounds like the rabbi is functioning as a gatekeeper,” Ford said. “While I realize many people want to consult with a rabbi or a minister in a confidential relationship, the law is incumbent on [all involved], if they have grounds for reasonable suspicion, to make disclosures.”

Ford said that failure to report suspicion of abuse could result in a charge of disorderly conduct. She said that she has never prosecuted someone for failure to report. But, she said, “in cases where people were aware of abuse and sat idly by, we have charged them with child endangerment, a third-degree or second-degree crime, depending upon the circumstances.”

Ford said that, for mandated reporters in her state, “it is not a defense… that a person otherwise obligated to report abuse relied upon the advice of some counselor, teacher or rabbi that it was not necessary to report…. The cultural- or religious-based analysis is certainly separate and distinct from the legal obligation to report.”

But the news is less good for haredi children in Brooklyn, New York:

A spokesman for [Charles] Hynes, the Brooklyn district attorney, said that apart from mandated reporters, there is no legal obligation in New York State to report abuse. Asked about Zwiebel’s guidance that even mandated reporters were obliged to consult their rabbis for permission to report abuse to secular authorities, the spokesman, who declined to allow his name to be used, said, “We don’t tell mandated reporters to go to a rabbi first. If anyone asks us, we tell them to call police or the D.A.’s office. I couldn’t really comment on mandated reporters going to a rabbi first because that is not our office’s position.”

That's right. The Brooklyn DA's SPOKESMAN refused to be publicly identified and refused to comment on mandated reporters breaking New York law and going to a rabbi to get permission to report child sexual abuse.

That is probably because Brooklyn's large hasidic communities bloc vote, and if Hynes actually enforced the law and arrested some of these ultra-Orthodox rabbis who illegally meddle in the judicial process, Hynes would not get those votes.

So Agudath Israel of America, whose power base is Brooklyn, essentially decides what the law is, not the Brooklyn DA, and not the State Assembly.

This will probably continue to be the case until the federal government steps in.

If you have a child and live in Brooklyn, that is a day you should be praying for and working for with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might.

Related Post: Don't Call The Cops When You Suspect Child Sexual Abuse, Agudah Says.

Comments

[steve]

Chamor! He and his cohorts decided to be doresh Rav Elyashiv's letter to fit their agenda. Not once in the letter is there a mention of going to a rabbi or beis din! Not once does it mention that a child is not to be believed. Instead of following the lead of the Baltimore rabbis who in 2007 issued an unequivocal mea culpa, the Agudah is still clinging on to hope that they can still handle these matters internally. Now they want to start a DATABASE!! Chamor Betzuras Adom! We need a database of child molesters in the frum community, not a database of inept rabbis who don't know the first thing about investigating violent crimes! Take some mussar from the Baltimore rabbis who stated that the rabbis are not equipped to handle these investigations. THERE IS NO MESIRA WHEN IT COMES TO A RODEF! Rav Elyashiv's letter does not need your drashas. You are not a Maharsha or a Rabbi Akiva Eiger or a Kesef that's going to tell us what the posek really meant. We don't need a rabbi to tell us what raglayim ladavar means. We don't need a rabbi to tell us what constitutes tikkun haolam. If a child is lying, the police can detect it a lot easier than the rabbi. Besides, if the family is looking for revenge, they are not going to a rabbi to ask permission to go to the police. They are not going to the rabbi to determine if they are liars. This stupidity must come to an end already and CDZ's hurtful statements to the press must stop. He has to know when to shut his mouth already as he's caused irreperable harm to thousands of victims already. His "breadwinner" comment was a real winner and now this "mesira" shtus! Shut up already CDZ!

[a]

“If somebody just comes and makes a claim, that’s not a sufficient basis to invoke the tikkun olam [benefit to society] reason for overriding the general prohibition against mesirah,” Zwiebel elaborated in a telephone interview with the Forward. There must first be “some circumstantial evidence or something that would appear to bolster the claim.”

Fucking idiot. A molestor is Chayav Min Hatorah as being a public Mazik, not because of Tikun Olam!!! Tikun Olam is a gaurd against loopholes in D'oraisahs that would cause public contempt, such as Avedas Akum.

[shmuel]

"Zwiebel said that only rabbis who are specialists in the area of abuse should be consulted..."

There isn't a single such rabbi in all the earth. They are all uniformly untrained, ignorant, inept, incompetent and impotent in the face of child sex abuse. They cannot conduct a proper investigation, have no clue about doing scientific testing of body fluids or clothing, don't know and don't care about the integrity of the chain of evidence, nothing. Sorry to say, but in this matter they are useless and good for nothing.
Continue, Zweibel...

"...though he acknowledged that no registry or designation of such rabbis currently exists."

And never will! But after years of this matter being on the front burner, why is there not already such a registry? Hmm, Zweibel? Because setting up such a "registry" is the furthest thing from the nogooda's mind.

"He said Agudah is “looking into developing, at least internally, some sort of database” that could be useful under such circumstances."
ROTFLMAO.

“We are dealing with a community that has standards established a millennia ago,” Zwiebel said.

Here's a man who knows his Latin! Not. The singular form is millenium---a neuter noun. The plural form is millenia. "A millenia ago" makes no sense. But then, nothing he says makes any sense. Or is legal.

“At the end of the day, as a community that feels itself bound by Torah, it still is the case that we have to think about questions like mesirah [informing on a Jew to non-Jewish authorities] and about the relevance of Halacha in determining these kinds of issues.”

As stated above, greater rabbis than you and yours have already definitively decided that mesirah has no basis in these matters. We have to save little Jewish boys from...their RABBIS, in...YESHIVAS, from...GETTING RAPED in closed rooms and parked cars. And he invokes "mesirah"? This must be ignored at all costs, and those who sent this little shick-yingel up there to spout such nonsense deserve prosecution just as much as he does.

[shmuel]

To answer your question,
"Does Agudath Israel Of America Set The Brooklyn D.A.'s Policy On Reporting Child Sex Abuse?"
Looks like it. Sad to say. Jews of Brooklyn, rise up and kick out Charley Hynes! Get yourself a real DA!

[A E ANDERSON]

If you set aside your a priori assumption that rabbis and Jewish teachers are somehow innately inclined to be pedophiles, it does not seem entirely unreasonable for an average person, hearing for the first time shocking allegations of sexual abuse on a child, to want to discuss that with a spiritual or moral mentor first. The outcome may well be, and probably should be, that reporting is mandatory if only for the safety of the child.

I am no haredi, but I can state for the record that were such allegations brought to my attention, I would certainly discuss them first with trusted advisors, as I would do with any serious legal, moral or business matter. These advisors would likely include various rabbis, and most certainly a lawyer or two.

For a haredi, who calls his rebbe to ask whether to cook rice or kartofelah for dinner, it seems entirely reasonable that this deeply religious man would want to seek spiritual counsel before acting. The "gatekeeper" model is really a rather extreme, even conspiratorial view of what is ordinary, reasonable and indeed thoughtful conduct.

As far as I can fathom, the mandatory reporting laws do not deprive the reporter of access to legal counsel, or indeed of his or her constitutional right to practice religion by discussing one's potential obligations and their ramifications with a minister of religion.

Certainly, an interesting situation would arise were a cleric to advise somebody not to report an instance of possible abuse when the plain wording of a statute appeared to oblige otherwise.

I also wonder, when speaking of an all-encompassing system such as halakha how much room religion so defined leaves for the secular authority, as indeed every human act is claimed to be a halakhic matter. The discussion is easier when religion may be left at the schoolhouse gate, but the Shulchan Arukh, unlike the Nicene Creed, follows the believer even into the toilet.

[Shmarya]

If you set aside your a priori assumption…

No, as usual, you're wrong.

What you meant to say is "If you set aside history…"

Why?

Because hundreds of haredi kids have been molested by the Kolkos and Mondrowitzs of the haredi world, while these very same Agudah rabbis told victims' parents that it was forbidden to call the police and report the crime.

And that's the point that you – characteristically – miss.

You can add to that the law on reporting suspected child sexual abuse and other forms of abuse of children and vulnerable adults.

That law does N-O-T allow a mandated reporter to let his clergyman decide for him whether to follow the law or not, and it does N-O-T excuse people who fail to follow that law because "my rabbi told me not to."

In fact, following the advice of clergy to not report suspected child sexual abuse is a crime for the mandated reporter and for the rabbi.

But of course, when dealing with the obvious and the moral, you are, as always, blind.

[jewishwhistleblower]

>Zwiebel said that only rabbis who are
>specialists in the area of abuse
>should be consulted, though he
>acknowledged that no registry or
>designation of such rabbis currently
>exists. He said Agudah is “looking
>into developing, at least internally,
>some sort of database” that could be
>useful under such circumstances.

This is all Agudath Israel double talk. What it really means is that you can't report allegations of abuse to the proper authorities, the police. There are no known rabbinical experts that Agudath Israel recommends going to that have any established history of allowing reports to the police. In fact any such alleged experts have a history of preventing reporting.

Part of the problem is that Agudath Israel Of America talks from both sides of its mouth.

See: http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2007/02/rabbi_dovid_fei.html

July 2006 excerpts from the Jewish Voice:
...
Rav Dovid Feinstein of the Lower East Side, in whose office the beit din was held, says the rabbinic court was called at the behest of the (removed) family who, somewhat belatedly, decided they wanted halachic approbation to call in the secular authorities. In fact, according to Rabbi Feinstein, this was not the first beit din that was called to adjudicate the matter. He maintains that, before going to the police in the first place, the (removed) had asked a beit din to decide what they should do. “When the beit din ruled that the family should not go to the police, the family decided the beit din was biased against them, and allowed the secular courts to take over,” says Rav Feinstein, who did not participate in that first beit din.

Personally Recruited
According to Rabbi Rottenberg, the second beit din consisted of five rabbis who were all personally recruited by Rabbi Cohen.
“He wanted to find the five best rabbis he could to sit on this beit din, because he wanted no arguments about the ruling,” says Rabbi Rottenberg, adding that when he hesitated to join, Rabbi Cohen called Rabbi Rottenberg’s parents to convince him to take part.
...
In general, Rabbi Feinstein says, it is a good idea for would-be accusers in the Jewish community to take their charges to a beit din before going to the police. “If the person is found guilty, the beit din would tell the accuser to go to the police; if the person is found not guilty, the beit din would tell the accuser to forget it,” he says. Asked if he knows of any instances in which a beit din referred a case to the civil authorities, Rabbi Feinstein says he does not.
...

Which contradicts what Agudath's mouth piece says:

What the rabbi said
Jerusalem Post
January 24, 2006
Sir, - Readers of the Jewish Telegraphic Agency's recent series on clergy sexual abuse may have been misled by the report's assertion that the meaning of words spoken by a respected rabbinic authority at last year's Agudath Israel of America national convention is, as the article put it, "open to interpretation." The rabbinic authority, the article asserted, admitted "that haredim are indeed guilty of sweeping things under the carpet."
The writer of the series has acknowledged to me that he had not at the time listened to a recording of the speech.
Rabbi Salomon's words, however, could not have been clearer. He pointed out how some people like to accuse the haredi community of "sweeping things under the carpet." They are right, he went on to explain, but not in the way they mean. "Do they know how many perpetrators" of sins against others "have been dealt with?" No, he averred, because when actions are taken against individuals who have proven themselves untrustworthy, Orthodox leaders do not trumpet their actions. And even as they take what steps are necessary to protect others, he added, they also seek to protect human dignity.
Moreover, Rabbi Salomon declared that when crimes are asserted but not proven, Jews must be guided not by a mob mentality but by the Torah.
The JTA article may well be right that "several Web site and blog contributors" chose to interpret Rabbi Salomon's remarks as an admission that "haredi officials often look the other way when clergy sex abuse takes place in their midst." But that says something only about those Web site and blog contributors, and nothing at all about what Rabbi Salomon actually said.
RABBI AVI SHAFRAN
Director of Public Affairs
Agudath Israel of America

I would remind people that Rav Reuven
Feinstein (Rav Dovid Feinstein's brother) is a Presidium (board) member of Agudath Israel of America Inc. So when Agudath Israel through its spokesperson Avi Shafran says:

>"Rabbi Salomon's words, however,
>could not have been clearer. He
>pointed out how some people like
>to accuse the haredi community
>of "sweeping things under the
>carpet." They are right, he went
>on to explain, but not in the way
>they mean. "Do they know how many
>perpetrators" of sins against
>others "have been dealt with?" No,
>he averred, because when actions
>are taken against individuals who
>have proven themselves untrustworthy,
>Orthodox leaders do not trumpet their
>actions. And even as they take what
>steps are necessary to protect others,
>he added, they also seek to protect
>human dignity.

We know thanks to Rav Dovid Feinstein exactly how many child molesters "have been dealt with". ZERO, not one.

>"Asked if he knows of any
>instances in which a beit din
>referred a case to the civil
>authorities, Rabbi Feinstein says
>he does not.

And they are who we rely on to protect our children at their camps and in institutions?

Agudath Israel is distorting halacha, obstructing justice, silencing the voices of survivors of abuse and protecting the pedophiles. Yet they lie and claim the opposite.

And people are just starting to realize this. I and others have been saying this now for many years:

1) The distorted self-serving view of halacha at Sunday's Agudah conference
by Rabbi Daniel Eidensohn
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2011/05/distorted-self-serving-view-of-halacha.html
...
But perhaps his biggest failure was to [not] address the betrayal of the abuse victims by the rabbis and community and the severe psychological & religious damage this betrayal causes. It is commonly observed by those who work with off the derech children that most of these children have been abused. So yes - there is a legitimate halachic problem of how to deal with mesira - but in reality the issue of abuse is not primarily about how to preserve rabbinic authority - but how to protect our children.
...

2) http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2011/05/orthodox-social-worker-may-be-called-as-witness-against-alleged-haredi-child-abuser-judge-rules-456.html
...
But the beit din process broke down, the beit din was disbanded (leaving Kolko unsupervised), and the father of the alleged victim reported the alleged abuse to police. The victim's father was then harassed by Kolko supporters, at least one of whom is now facing criminal charges for witness tampering as a result, and Lakewood rabbis issued a proclamation against the father
...

Agudath Israel continues to mislead and lie as to its true position and how abuse is really dealt with in the community.

[MARK]

AGUDA ISRAEAL has murder on their bloody hands

[Barry]

In 1791 George Hammond, British ambassador to the United Kingdom, somewhat belatedly presented a copy of his credentials to President George Washington thereby confirming to the new United States that Great Britain no longer consider its former colony as being subject to its jurisdiction.

Something similar seems to be happening today. Charles Hynes as Brooklyn's ambassador to Jewland has presented a copy of his credentials to Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zweibel, Jewland's Deputy Secretary of State thereby showing that Brooklyn no longer consider Jewlanders as being subject to its jurisdiction.

[JDoc1]

Agudath Israel lost any sort of relevancy ages ago. They're like the UN of the Jewish world- so blatantly one-sided and self-serving as to make any statement they make dubious and suspect. That being said, I want to thank them for giving the world another window into their souls. For a bunch of rabbis (I know several of them personally) on the Moetzes Gedolai Ha'Sheker to even entertain the notion that they are somehow experts in child sexual abuse is the epitome of arrogance. Thank you Agudath Israel. You have made my job convincing everyone I know who you really are that much easier.

[joeyd]

I just dropped a turd and it resembled the Nominsker rabbi. To my fellow advocates, Its time to get over that we can convince these pieces of scum to do the right thing.

[Over It]

gotta go with joeyd. it won't change and its a waste of time trying to make them do anything differently.

[DON]

their will be no child sex abuse which satan does the crime and jewish people do the time. if the jewish pray to god and jesus that will be considered a full prayer

[Cynthia Lauer]

To Anderson: I've worked for a child protection agency and also represented parents in child protection cases.

The child protection system relies upon mandated reporters to provide accurate and TIMELY reports. It is not the reporters job to decide upon guilt or innocence, but merely to alert the authorities of the concern so that those who have the proper training can do an investigation.

Time is of the essence in any reporting. Physical evidence quickly disappears, and young children don't always have long memories. As well, if a child says something spontaneously, it's important to have the authorities hear that, and not interview a child who has already been grilled and interrogated by others first.

As I lawyer, I don't really want my clients to wait and call me before reporting concerns. I don't want it to seem as though I am either suppressing information or counseling clients to make reports. Instead, I give the same blanket advice to all clients about immediately reporting any disclosure made by a child.

To everyone: I would advise any frum parent to do the following:

1. Specifically ask any school, camp or youth group about policies regarding sexual abuse disclosure, and whether they follow mandatory reporting laws or go through rabbis first.

2. If they get a disclosure or see anything suspicious with their child, take them immediately to a non-Jewish doctor, thus avoiding the whole mesirah issue altogether.