A Hasidic Cult
"When I go to Joseph's Tomb, I know that something is liable to happen to me, but I believe in the rabbi [Berland, pictured at right] and I have a sense of security. I call this the adrenaline of holiness. You enter a city where there are terrorists - and we have already encountered gunfire - but you enter with faith, pray at the tomb and understand that by means of faith and prayer it is possible to change even nature.…One [Beslov hasid] was injured [doing this] and he has been in a vegetative state since 2003, and one, Ben-Yosef [Livnat], was [just] killed. With all the grief - both were my friends - you have to view it in relation to the level of risk and you understand that it's nothing, it's beyond nature."
'Religious macho'
For the community of Bratslaver Hasidim living under the leadership of Rabbi Eliezer Berland, the shooting of a student at Joseph's Tomb in Nablus last month only serves as an impetus to undertake additional risky missions.
By Yair Ettinger • Ha’aretz
Just three days ago, the Hasidim of the Shuvu Banim Yeshiva, situated in the Muslim Quarter of Jerusalem's Old City, were informed that their rabbi, Eliezer Berland, would be returning today from the United States in time to light the traditional Lag Ba'omer bonfire and celebrate with them on Mount Meron. Until now they hadn't known why he had made the trip or when he would be coming back. Nor do they know if he will lead the two mass convoys that will be visiting Joseph's Tomb in Nablus - with the authorization of the Israel Defense Forces - in the coming weeks. The purpose of knowledge is that we should not know, said Rabbi Nachman of Bratslav.
Berland is an extreme mystic who aspires to be a tzaddik, a righteous person, in the image of Rabbi Nachman. His Shuvu Banim community of Bratslavers numbers more than 700 families. At Pesach one of the students, Ben-Yosef Livnat, was shot to death by Palestinian policemen near Nablus. Livnat's death (he and his friends had gone to visit Joseph's Tomb without IDF coordination or permission) did not deter the Hasidim. Rather, they promised to make more such visits, a pledge on which they are making good, with the support of the "hilltop youths" - young settlers, most of whom live in the so-called illegal outposts - and the encouragement of the rabbis of the settlements. Since Livnat's killing, there have been at least two visits to the tomb.
Not long after Livnat's death, Rabbi Berland apparently went to Miami, Florida, together with his wife and one of his assistants. According to one of his close followers, they went "to a place that specializes in alternative treatments." Berland, 74, had already been to the clinic in the past for treatment intended to help him get through the long fasts he imposes on himself - three days to a week at a time with no solid food - as a "ta'anit yahid" (a personal abstinence ).
Last November, the rabbi rebelled and fled from the "jail" in which he had been held for years, far from his flock, surrounded by mediators who supervised his movements and controlled him. Possibly they also got their hands on the donations that flowed into the yeshiva, to the tune of millions of shekels a year. The confining apparatus was controlled by the rabbi's son, Nachman, and grandson, Natan. "They chained me and suffocated me, and they also declared that I was mentally ill," Rabbi Berland told his followers. He dismissed the directorate of the yeshiva institutions and distanced his son and grandson, but afterward brought them back. According to N., one of the rabbi's closest followers, "Access to the rabbi is far easier today. People come to him, things get done. He proved that everything is under his complete control."
During the period of the struggle, the rabbi and his wife left Jerusalem and lived in Tiberias. From there he went on wild all-night excursions to the tombs of tzaddikim as hundreds of Hasidim raced after him in their cars. On the eve of the end of Passover, when he returned to his home in Jerusalem, his student Ben-Yosef Livnat was killed. A few days after the funeral, Berland paid a condolence call to the Livnat family, which lasted until 5 A.M. The next day he left for the United States.
The Israeli press has often described Berland as a radical nationalist and a messianic. After Livnat's death, members of the Shuvu Banim community said the rabbi had ordered them not to risk trips to the tombs of tzaddikim during the period of the counting of the Omer (the 49 days between Pesach and Shavuot ), which is considered a time of calamities. But no one denies that Berland has for years urged the Hasidim to visit Joseph's Tomb and other dangerous places in the West Bank.
According to Dr. Zvi Mark, a scholar of Judaism and an expert on the Bratslav doctrine at both Bar-Ilan University and the Shalom Hartman Institute, Berland wants his followers to visit Joseph's Tomb precisely because it is dangerous, and not in spite of the danger. "Even people who view highly dangerous backpacking trips by their children to all corners of the globe as a healthy outlet of youthful energies, accuse the Bratslav community of being adventurers," Mark notes. "This is based on the concept of a separation between the vibrant secular way of life and religiously observant life, which must be spiritual and mystical, without earthly passions. Let them pray quietly in the synagogue and not disturb us during the siesta. But that dichotomy is remote from the Bratslav religiosity."
The Shuvu Banim community describes Berland reverently as the spearhead of the visits to the tomb of Rabbi Nachman in Uman, Ukraine, that began in the 1980s - with the aid of forged passports and the ability to give the KGB the slip. The Soviet authorities offered a reward of thousands of dollars to anyone with information that would lead to Berland's arrest. A similar mythology sprang up about his trips with followers to the graves of the patriarchs in the territories during the second intifada, under fire, and was bolstered by the more recent high-speed night rides across highways in northern Israel.
Some of the Hasidim said that Berland had instructed them to elude "dinnim," negative forces that try to stop their motion, such as traffic lights, road signs and policemen. According to N., Berland taught him that "the moment you undertake a practical endeavor that entails a certain risk, it connects you with the tzaddik at a higher level." And in the case of Nablus, with the biblical figure Joseph.
Another Hasid, Benny Mahleb, one of the organizers of the visits to Nablus, said: "When I go to Joseph's Tomb, I know that something is liable to happen to me, but I believe in the rabbi [Berland] and I have a sense of security. I call this the adrenaline of holiness. You enter a city where there are terrorists - and we have already encountered gunfire - but you enter with faith, pray at the tomb and understand that by means of faith and prayer it is possible to change even nature."
How many Hasidim have been hurt on the way to Joseph's Tomb?
"One was injured and he has been in a vegetative state since 2003, and one, Ben-Yosef [Livnat], was killed. With all the grief - both were my friends - you have to view it in relation to the level of risk and you understand that it's nothing, it's beyond nature."Drawn to the Haredi world
The Haifa-born Berland is a product of the state-religious education system and the Bnei Akiva youth movement. He met his wife, Tehila, the daughter of the late Rabbi Shalom-Avraham Shaki - a Knesset member from the National Religious Party in the first half of the 1960s - when they were both members of a settlement group in the Nahal paramilitary brigade, bound for a religious kibbutz. Berland was already drawn to the Haredi world then, and no one was surprised when he entered an ultra-Orthodox Lithuanian yeshiva instead of the IDF.
Dr. Mark, who met Rabbi Berland a few years ago, says: "He has great knowledge. He interweaves material from different aspects of culture. In the course of a conversation he opens an encyclopedia and explains how storms happen and then switches to expert talk about a kabbalah manuscript. That is quite impressive." Mark adds that, in contrast to other Bratslav rabbis who saw themselves, at least implicitly, as reincarnations of Rabbi Nachman, "I did not find any such claim in Rabbi Berland. On the other hand, I have never seen another Bratslaver rabbi whose demeanor is so close to that of Rabbi Nachman. If you ask yourself how the Hasidic movement started, what it was that people looked for in the tzaddikim, why people went to them, suddenly you have a powerful living example of just that."
Mark points out that "some Bratslav Hasidim see Rabbi Nachman as being a saintly figure removed from them. Rabbi Berland sees him as a role model. He suddenly goes to Tiberias, suddenly goes to the United States - that is a very familiar pattern to those who know the behavior of Rabbi Nachman. Part of Rabbi Nachman's ethos was always to renew himself and to change. If you are drawn to something, take action, go with what you feel. 'Flow.' Rabbi Berland is exactly that kind of character. If he feels the need to do something in the middle of the night, he will not put it off until morning but will go and do it immediately."
Mark's book on revelation in the writings of Rabbi Nachman, which is forthcoming from Magnes Press (in Hebrew ), deals in part with the strong messianic affinity for Joseph in the esoteric writings of Rabbi Nachman, some of which are published for the first time in the book. Rabbi Nachman identified with the biblical Joseph and believed that they had both undergone similar experiences. So much so that he viewed his life as a "tikkun," a spiritual correction, for Joseph's flaws. This entails constant readiness to die a martyr's death. "As a boy, Rabbi Nachman prayed he would die as a martyr to God," Mark says. "He lived in Bratslav, but toward the end of his life said he wanted to die in Uman, because thousands of Jews who were martyred in pogroms were buried there. The whole ethos of Joseph and his devotion is interwoven in Rabbi Nachman's life from beginning to end, and is also interwoven in the life of Rabbi Berland - from his trips to Uman when it was under Soviet rule, to his forays to Joseph's Tomb."
Do the Bratslav Hasidim consider the Palestinians, or the IDF soldiers stationed around Nablus, as "dinnim," who need to be evaded or perhaps confronted?
"They don't throw stones and don't hurt anyone," Mark says, about the Bratslavers. "According to their ethos, if someone takes a knife with him, he is harming the faith. It is an ethos of confidence in God or in the tzaddik. They take a chance and rely on Rabbi Berland, but they have no intention of hurting a living soul. It's religious macho, not military macho. They say, 'We go about without weapons, defenseless, and place our lives in God's providence.'"
What makes it a cult? Why can't it be a new religious movement or a revivalist moment? Why do you need to add weasel words and pejorative language rather than describe the phenomena such as it is?
Posted by: skeptical | May 20, 2011 at 07:34 AM
If you ask yourself how the Hasidic movement started, what it was that people looked for in the tzaddikim, why people went to them, suddenly you have a powerful living example of just that."
Interesting insight into how cults originate, sometimes becoming full-blown religions in the long term.
Meanwhile, this running around frantically, escaping from "jail" only to return, reminds me of "The Prisoner", the TV show from the sixties.
When he tries to escape, do they send a huge vat of cholent after him?
Posted by: Jeff | May 20, 2011 at 07:46 AM
as a chareidi jew myself,i must admit these are criminaly insane ignorant
savages,all of them including their so called rabbi,should be locked up in a insane asylum for the criminally insane
Posted by: chaim | May 20, 2011 at 08:19 AM
What makes it a cult? Why can't it be a new religious movement or a revivalist moment? Why do you need to add weasel words and pejorative language rather than describe the phenomena such as it is?
Posted by: skeptical | May 20, 2011 at 07:34 AM
Jeff
Why don't you look up the meaning of the word. And then see how it is used with regard to new religious movements. Concentrate on the term "destructive cults."
That will answer your question.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 20, 2011 at 10:45 AM
i call them mindless morons or automatons robots:)
Posted by: jancsipista | May 20, 2011 at 11:13 AM
From http://www.shuvubonim.org/yort.html , a shiur given by R. Eliezer Berland:
“The Tzaddik really is the Holy One descended in the form of a human being. This is what we learn from that Midrash [on Vayikra]…The Tzaddik is the Holy One who has descended in the form of a human being. In section #21, the Midrash Rabbah says that the true Tzaddik is the Holy One descended in human form, and that is why he can atone for all of the sins of the Jewish people.”
A quasi-Christian cult.
Posted by: Michael | May 20, 2011 at 11:14 AM
jeff- they even put kishkes with flanken to entice the prisoner to lure him back.
Posted by: jancsipista | May 20, 2011 at 11:16 AM
Shmarya, was that addressed to skeptical or to me?
Posted by: Jeff | May 20, 2011 at 11:46 AM
you are incapable of not passing value judgments. why not just show rather than tell?do you really gain much by fulminating all day long?
Posted by: skeptical | May 20, 2011 at 12:47 PM
In other words, the facts are against you.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 20, 2011 at 01:07 PM
Stop with the demagoguery-- You are constantly denigrating phenomena based on twits and blogposts. Have you met Rabbi Berland or his followers? Have you seriously looked at Breslov? At the very least the latter is a vital and creative current amongst the generally stale current crop of Hasidic groups. While there may be excesses and crazy people, it takes some gumption to turn every Rabbi with a little bit of eccentricity into a cult leader.
Posted by: skeptical | May 20, 2011 at 02:04 PM
Please.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Past that, have I met any of Berland's students?
Of course I have.
Have I seriously looked at Breslov?
Yes – far more seriously than you ever have.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 20, 2011 at 02:15 PM
Shamarya
Its not a pissing contest. Its a matter of tonality.
Posted by: skeptical | May 20, 2011 at 02:28 PM
Well, so far, the facts supporting my "tonality" appear to be winning.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 20, 2011 at 02:31 PM
I see we are at the argumentation level of charlie sheen. Winning!
Shamarya, I am sorry that I bang ten gram rocks and my veins flow with tiger blood!
Posted by: skeptical | May 20, 2011 at 03:05 PM
Please.
You have done nothing but accuse me of things that are not true.
You have no valid points for me to argue with.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 20, 2011 at 03:16 PM
So you just wrote dispassionate analysis in a monotone without taking sides, just reporting the issues without any fox news like insertions? Cult is just a neutral term in this context and I misunderstood?
Posted by: skeptical | May 20, 2011 at 03:38 PM
Cult is an *accurate* term.
Process that.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 20, 2011 at 03:45 PM
How about for the original Hasidism of the Maggid? Or for the circle of the Ari in Safed? Also cults?
Posted by: skeptical | May 20, 2011 at 04:06 PM
Yes, but not necessarily destructive cults. Berland's group is.
And you clearly have no knowledge of destructive cults, cults, or, for that matter, history.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 20, 2011 at 04:11 PM
When Nahman of Breslov made aliyah he reportedly did not worry much about his wife and daughter because they could find positions as servants in some household. Cult leader?
Posted by: skeptical | May 20, 2011 at 04:35 PM
Yes.
And he was considered as such by the majority of other rebbes and by the entire non-hasidic Jewish Eastern European world.
But that is not the point.
No why not apologize and then go learn about destructive cults and fools like you who alibi for them.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 20, 2011 at 04:39 PM
Why are they destructive, they are just part of the creative ferment of Judaism? More destructive are people like the thugs detailed in Der Nister who go around persecuting others for queer religious beliefs. And those "majority of other rebbes" were something more like corrupt mob bosses!
Posted by: skeptical | May 20, 2011 at 04:53 PM
You don't know history. You do not understand cults or destructive cults. And you are clearly part of one.
Seek help. Get yourself out.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 20, 2011 at 04:56 PM
Which cult am I a part of? The live and let live cult? Or the don't use weasel words in the lede cult? I mean seriously, if its the cult of college comp 101 then I guess count me in.
Posted by: skeptical | May 20, 2011 at 05:10 PM
What makes it a cult?
the way they behave like silly fools on drugs or the idiots on the therapies they should be on. this is not normative judaism. their folly started with reb nachman and continues to these days -among other places on his unkempt sepulchre in far away ukraine.
Why can't it be a new religious movement or a revivalist moment?
there is nothing revivalist about them, they are no different thant idiots hare kreshna disguised as yidden. one can think of them as a potential burial society out to kill judaism.
Why do you need to add weasel words and pejorative language rather than describe the phenomena such as it is?
nothing pejorative they didn't fully earn.
i feel more affinity and understanding to the sufis behaviour than to theirs.
Posted by: Yosef ben Matitya | May 20, 2011 at 06:53 PM
mr/ms skeptical
with your attitude of live and let live, you couldn't possibly hold judaism as important enough to care about it's well being.
Posted by: Yosef ben Matitya | May 20, 2011 at 06:56 PM
Which cult am I a part of? The live and let live cult? Or the don't use weasel words in the lede cult? I mean seriously, if its the cult of college comp 101 then I guess count me in.
Posted by: skeptical | May 20, 2011 at 05:10 PM
Perhaps you're correct.
Maybe you're simply an idiot.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 20, 2011 at 07:32 PM
Well, I for one have a soft spot for these Bratslavers. I do. They seem sincere and truly lit up with some manifestation of holiness. What's not to like about them?
Posted by: yidandahalf | May 20, 2011 at 10:53 PM
I've been calling Lubavitch a cult for years, but this thread has me thinking about all of Hasidism in a different way. We've been taught, even at the academic level, that whatever one may say abut Hasidism's shortcomings, it was a revivalist movement that reinvigorated a stagnant Judaism and gave meaning and purpose to thousands, if not millions.
I'm beginning now to think that the whole thing might never have been anything more than a destructive cult. Frenzied devotion to charismatic leaders believed to possess supernatural abilities, complete submission, surrender of discernment and personal responsibility - the signs are all there, and we see what it's led to, even among the non-Hasidic Haredim, the descendants of the Mitnagdim. They've all become infected with it.
It's debated whether or not, in destroying European Jewish culture, the Germans actually achieved their goal of destroying Judaism as a whole. I'm wondering now if it wasn't already in a state of steep decline. It may be that by the time the Nazis arrived, Judaism as a belief system was already on its way out the door. Instead of invigorating it, perhaps Hasidism merely accelerated its degeneration.
Posted by: Jeff | May 21, 2011 at 07:24 AM
Or was, itself, a symptom of that degeneration.
Posted by: Jeff | May 21, 2011 at 07:26 AM
in many ways i agree. religions, as memeplexes undergo evolution just like living things, only the processes are different. it makes sense that the strains of religion which have the highest level of fecundity,either through vertical transmission via children or horizontal transmission via either outreach or violent treatment of other such memeplexes would have the greatest chance of long term survival. haredism certainly has that with their high birthrate. and the haredi memeplex also includes rules which isolate its followers from alternative ideologies, thereby having the equivalent of an effective shield against potential rivals in the marketplace of such ideas. and another important factor in the success of the evolution of an idea is accurate reproduction, just as is seen with DNA. because of their requirement that all follow the exact same set of rules, with no deviation permitted, this thought virus has a high level of precise replication. under these conditions, the more isolation that is accepted the higher the reproductive success will be.
it doesnt matter whether or not a specific sect is closely related to prior forms of judaism . what matters is that those who believe this is judaism have a better chance of survival thanks to their rules than those who may in fact be practicing judaism in a way that more closely resembles the judaism of our forefathers. it is classic natural selection as evolution would have predicted this to a tee. religions are highly evolved thought viruses which are very difficult to overcome.
.
Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | May 21, 2011 at 08:29 PM
From merriam-webster:
: formal religious veneration : worship
2
: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3
: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4
: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5
a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
See cult defined for English-language learners
1 : a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous
Ref.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult
Also, cult is a pejorative term, referring a group of people whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre. he word originally denoted a system of ritual practices. The narrower, derogatory sense of the word is a product of the 20th century, especially since the 1980s, and is considered SUBJECTIVE.
BY THE WAY, derogatory term has no currency in academic studies of religions, where "cults" are subsumed under a neutral label of the "new religious movement".
Ref:
Oxford English Dictionary; citing American Journal of Sociology 85 (1980), p. 1377: "Cults..., like other deviant social movements, tend to recruit people with a grievance, people who suffer from a some variety of deprivation."
Richardson, James T. (1993). "Definitions of Cult: From Sociological-Technical to Popular-Negative". Review of Religious Research 34 (4): 348–356.
Richardson, James T. and Introvigne, Massimo (2001). "'Brainwashing' Theories in European Parliamentary and Administrative Reports on 'Cults' and 'Sects'". Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion 40 (2): 143–168
Lewis, James R. (2004). The Oxford handbook of New Religious Movements. Oxford University Press US
Dawson, Lorne L. (2003). Cults and new religious movements: A reader. Wiley-Blackwell.
Posted by: ergo proxy | May 22, 2011 at 05:52 PM
So by definition, ladies and not so many gents...all religions are cults, it is a matter of joining the cult that best satisfies your spiritual needs, personal choice. I rather describe them as clubs. I myself like the Hassid clubs, can't go wrong with the hats and dark suits!
Posted by: ergo proxy | May 22, 2011 at 05:55 PM
So by definition, ladies and not so many gents...all religions are cults, it is a matter of joining the cult that best satisfies your spiritual needs, personal choice. I rather describe them as clubs. I myself like the Hassid clubs, can't go wrong with the hats and dark suits!
Posted by: ergo proxy | May 22, 2011 at 05:55 PM
Now look up the tern "destructive cult," and you'll see you do not understand.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 22, 2011 at 06:06 PM
I think the reason that Scotty is so enamored with the cult talk is that he is looking for a second career deprogramming cultists. So anything that is a cult is good for business. While some of us can see the difference between Lazer Berland and Scientology, Shamarya is going to be taking the calls at 3am and coming in face obscured by balaclava to take these payes framed ex arsim to an undisclosed location where they will be forced to suffer the eye-rape of reading failed messiah for days at a time. You'll thank him later!
Posted by: skeptical | May 22, 2011 at 07:42 PM
Shmarya, did 'Jeff' just say 'degeneration'???
'The kids youre with at school, keep on singin' you're a fool, cuz ya pick your nose and drool, and you follow all the rules at the school.....Your family is strange, and your pets are all deranged, and they bite at shooting flames, and they lick up all the stains, in yo bed.....rub a dub' :) Courtesy of Rockin' Brochin and Jonny T.
Posted by: sifter | May 22, 2011 at 09:17 PM
Posted by: skeptical | May 22, 2011 at 07:42 PM
Process: Breslov under Berland is a cult without question, most probably a destructive cult. It meets the definition.
As for you, call me Scotty one more time, and I'll ban you.
Do it to my face and you'll spend the rest of your life regretting it.
Got that?
Posted by: Shmarya | May 22, 2011 at 10:31 PM
Whoa, so many threats. What is this, New Square?
Posted by: skeptical | May 23, 2011 at 12:03 AM
It's the law.
You follow it or you're banned.
Got it?
Posted by: Shmarya | May 23, 2011 at 12:06 AM
Whoa, slow down kiddo! Is this Haredi stan that you ban people rather than have discussions? Maybe have a cold one or step out for a smoke, then come back. Just a blog, shefalah!
Posted by: skeptical | May 23, 2011 at 12:46 AM
Please.
I allow free discussion. But I do not allow behavior like yours.
Stick to making fact-based arguments or I'll ban you.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 23, 2011 at 12:49 AM
How come so many threats? Do you really feel so threatened? Im just asking questions like why you need to jump to cult and you call me an idiot and say you want to ban me! Whoa!
Posted by: skeptical | May 23, 2011 at 12:53 AM
Unbelievable. They're never wrong. Never.
Shmarya, this guy seems to be incapable of getting it.
Posted by: Jeff | May 23, 2011 at 12:59 AM
Shmarya, this guy seems to be incapable of getting it.
Posted by: Jeff | May 23, 2011 at 12:59 AM
That's because people like him are fundamentally dishonest.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 23, 2011 at 01:01 AM
How come so many threats? Do you really feel so threatened? Im just asking questions like why you need to jump to cult and you call me an idiot and say you want to ban me! Whoa!
Posted by: skeptical | May 23, 2011 at 12:53 AM
You're not about to be banned for asking questions.
You're about to be banned for H-O-W you ask questions.
Posted by: Shmarya | May 23, 2011 at 01:02 AM
These characters make the most extreme Chabad Messianists look normal.
At least Rabbi Schneerson comes from a serious tradition and not out of no where. BErland, and other Breslover zaddikim are self proclaimed Holy Men.
Posted by: Zalman Alpert | May 23, 2011 at 11:39 AM
religions, as memeplexes undergo evolution.
All is this sociobiology which morphed into evolutionary psychology and memetics isn't so much pseudoscience (although it often has all the earmarks) as you never know, someday fMRI's will come and give some shred of evidence that memes actually exist...the issue is that these fields are all the time mixing up a hypothesis with a "theory"
Posted by: Yoel Mechanic | May 23, 2011 at 11:39 AM
Yoel, the MRI work has already begun: http://www.tikkun.org/article.php/Heilman-neuroscienceandfundamentalism/print
Posted by: Jeff | May 23, 2011 at 04:10 PM
jeff, of course it begun years ago. with the resolutions they have i have no idea when this issue will be resolved. i suspect memetics to be a hypothesis but if you listen to Dawkins, who used to actually know what he was talking about before he switched over to political activism, you would think it is a well supported theory
Posted by: Yoel Mechanic | May 23, 2011 at 04:59 PM
Jeff, thanks for the reference!
btw: I tend to think memetics is some standard social theory dressed up in new vocabularly. When it is social theory the standards of "proof" are quite different then when it is supposed to be a biological issue.
Posted by: Yoel Mechanic | May 23, 2011 at 05:02 PM
yoel-
memetics isnt a biological issue but has tremendous support in the scientific community and can be seen and confirmed through simple observation. it has long been known that languages evolve as well as most other societal and interpersonal constructs.
Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | May 23, 2011 at 05:14 PM
Also, Yoel, while "meme" may be a vaguely-defined concept, my point in providing the link is that the research demonstrating a neurological basis for belief in general, and fundamentalism in particular, is underway.
Posted by: Jeff | May 23, 2011 at 05:31 PM