Two Monsey Rabbis Say They Gave Rabbi Samuel Kellner Permission To Turn In Rabbi Baruch Lebovits

The rabbis, Chaim Avrohom Dovber Flohr and Elimelech Yechezkel Shraga Gold, say Kellner acted correctly and righteously, and that it is forbidden to hurt him or trouble him or, even more so, to inform on him.

Update 4:30 am CST 4-24-11 – Now another letter bearing the signatures of Rabbis Flohr and Gold has been released. The new letter claims the old letter is a forgery. It was circulated by email with the following message above it:

I was advised By Rabbi Chaim Flohr Shlit"a And by Rabbi Elimilech Gold Shlit"a To Forward to all my contacts his Letter regarding the Issue of Shloma Ahron Kelner.

Sorry about My Previous email last week Regarding this Issue,
and as I got More involved in this case I realized The Rishas and False Masirah on Lebovits Karmarna Rabbi which was done by the Musir Shloma Ahron Kelner.

(sorry for sending this on Chol Hamoad. But as Rabbi Flohr Pointed out to me that Even he never sign papers on chol Hamoed but he Made an exception on this Important issue and to announce about the False letter signed by his name last week)


PLEASE FORWARD TO ALL YOUR CONTACTS


Rabbi Yisocher Klein

[Hat Tip for the update: Burich.]

Comments

[Jewdo]

A Gutt Voch All,

Can we please get a full translation? I recognize these names these are hard core Chassidic Rabbis, these guys don't play! Plus look at the date 13 of Nissan this year, they wrote this letter after Kellner's arrest date.

[Yechiel]

Jewdo:
These names mean a lot to many haredim. These rabbis are known to be extremists but they play no games. I hope the people heed to the ruling accordingly. Lebovitz is a known problem to anyone that lives not in denial. So let's get off Kellner's back.
(Is the letter is authentic???)

[introspection-time]

I don't get it- are they condoning extortion?

[Yoily Weiss]

Here is my translation of this letter:

Sunday, Week of Kedoshim, 13 Nissan 5770 [April 17, 2011]
I hereby announce to the public, regarding the righteous man Rabbi Shlomo Aaron Kellner, that what he did in respect to reporting to the authorities was done only after asking a Halachic question [from a qualified Rabbi], and that he did it in accordance with the views of our holy Torah (as clearly stated in response from prominent poskim – Halachic authorities). He has listened to the views of the Torah as is proper and according to the law, and: It is forbidden to cause him distress or to humiliate him, and certainly to inform about him [to the government]. On the contrary: it is proper to use all avenues to help him and to save him [from prosecution].
And he who transgresses on this will suffer Divine retribution.
The writer and signer for truth and justice:

Chaim Avraham Duber Flohr

We, too, join in emphasizing the words of the above great Rabbi, and it is a great mitzvah (Torah commandment) to save the victim from his oppressors!
And on this we come to sign on the above date:

Elimelech Yechezkel Shraga Gold

[moshy]

this rabbi flohr should be arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit extortion

[ultra orthodox]

here's a tweet i got from a friend claiming this letter is FALSE the real letter is that kellner is a criminal check out the link below:

RT @SamLevine1: @yidpundit This new letter Rabbi Gold sent in the name of Rabbi Flohr, against Kelner. http://plixi.com/p/95418844

[anuran]

Witness tampering, obstructing justice, extortion, soliciting false testimony and all with the permission of his rabbis.

I'm glad to see that studying Torah and keeping mitzvot makes the most observant Jews a Light unto the Nations.

[monsey jew]

i heard that rabbi flohr and rabbi gold were also involved in rabbi yisroel wiengatren sex rape case.

[moshy]

there is a new letter why dont you post it?

[Kamarna Rabbi]

baruch lebovits is becaming a big rabbi he opend up a shul in his house called
"bies hamedrash hiechal baruch karmarna"
he has this yom tov over 200 people pray there with him, last night was a kumzits with stichiner rabbi, thursday was a tish at his house led by his brother the nikolsburg rabbi from monsey, sunday night yom tov will be a big tish at 12 oclock as a seudas hoduah to celebrate yetzias mitzrayim kriyat yam suf with his own mirricale being freed from prison

[Jewdo]

The Lebowits family could have settled this matter in Bais Din but choose not to. Any one who is familiar with the details of the case knows that. Which is exactly why R' Flohr and R' Gold wrote the above letter.

The fact is the Lebowits family and friends not only rodefed all the witness and their families they are the ones who paid witnesses, harassed people and tried to get Kellner kicked out of his shul all while trying to pervert the US criminal justice system . The above Rabbonim did not want to write the letter, but when they saw how crooked the Lebowits side became and that they massered Kellner(who gave them reshus?)they felt they had to do the right thing and yasher koach to them, Hashem should bentch them!

[Yechiel]

Could someone please explain:
A rodef is out on the streets again. A predator is on the loose and chassidim shotim are celebrating?
BTW I hardly believe that any celebrations are really taking place. The post by Kamarna Rabbi is possibly just to get people worked up.
As far as the letters go; I am skeptical that neither are authentic.
Someone may just be making a mockery of these rabbis.
I may be radical but I believe that Lebovits is guilty as guilty can be. It took decades for someone to step up and do something about it. I don't care what methods were used to accomplish that. Anyone with unclouded thinking should appreciate that. Sometimes, there just is no other way. The legal system is in place to protect innocent people, not predators... the turn of events in this case is saddening.
Lebovitz's charisma is what casts a spell on these chassidim shotim. There is more to this... v'hamevin yavin.
Gut Yom Tov

[Jewdo]

Thanks Yoily for the translation.

@Kamara Rebbe-That's great news! How many of his mispallim are under 18? I wish him hatzlacha with the shul-any chance he can teach my bar mitzva bucher lainning? Where do I sign him up?

introspection-time & anuran-The above Rabbi's directed Kellner to go to Bais Din which he was willing but the Lebowits backed out.

@Moshy & ultra orthodox: Shekker is shekker and emes is emes, to quote Koheles "That which is crooked cannot be made straight" we will see who shows up in court and for shure G-d the true judge knows.

@Yechiel-if you doubt the letters why don't you call the Rabbis and ask them?

[seymour]

baruch lebovits is becaming a big rabbi he opend up a shul in his house called
"bies hamedrash hiechal baruch karmarna"
he has this yom tov over 200 people pray there with him, last night was a kumzits with stichiner rabbi, thursday was a tish at his house led by his brother the nikolsburg rabbi from monsey, sunday night yom tov will be a big tish at 12 oclock as a seudas hoduah to celebrate yetzias mitzrayim kriyat yam suf with his own mirricale being freed from prison

Posted by: Kamarna Rabbi | April 24, 2011 at 06:03 AM

this is common for the ultra frum to hold parties for criminals. They have no shame, they are like the mafia when one of their gets out of prison.

we are dealing with a mentally disturbed community to equate freeing of slaves are freeing person who was in prisoner after a trail.

To them saving the life of one criminal is worth more than saving the life hundreds of innocent people.

[A E ANDERSON]

Let us clarify a bit with a hypotheticial.

If you see a boy being buggered by a rabbi in flagrante delicto does any Orthodox authority object to reporting this to the police?

Probably not.

The problem remains with cases of rumour and innuendo, whispering campaigns and the like. "Shul gossip," in other words.

If this is so, it would seem that there is good reason why the leadership of a congregation would direct that reporting of such rumours be filtered through the professional leadership of a congregation. An internal investigation might find that no factual basis exists that even meets mandatory reporting requirements.

Shul gossip does not equal fact.

[Yechiel]

A E
There is more than just shul gossip on this one. It stinks to high heavens. Does everyone have stuffed noses?

[Yechiel]

Seymour:
I doubt that people are actually crazy enough to celebrate. I think Kamarna is pulling our legs.
However, if it is true, then I share your thoughts.

[Jewdo]

AE please- Vaads were created to by pass reporting these issue to the authorities not to 'vet them.' Despite Ohel's 'liberal' mandatory reporting stance the 'real heimise' would not take the chance so the internal Vaad veted the story and the famalies sent kids to people like Webberman to avoid any chance of the story getting reported. Their internal system is grossly inadequate and has endangered children in our communities for decades and it is just coming to light now.

[Yechiel]

Jewdo:
Amen.

[chusid shoyte]

Ive been following this case closely and for some reason i get the feeling there is some secret something else behind all this can anyone help me?

[Dusiznies.blogspot.com]

If you look carefully at the original letter and the follow up letter, and compare the signatures, you will find them exactly alike. Look carefully at the ALEPH in R' Floors signature in the original letter, it has the exact same heavy letter as the follow up, I suspect both letters are forgeries.

[seymour]

"Let us clarify a bit with a hypotheticial.

If you see a boy being buggered by a rabbi in flagrante delicto does any Orthodox authority object to reporting this to the police?

Probably not. "

Posted by: A E ANDERSON | Christchurch, New Zealand | April 24, 2011 at 08:03 AM

do that and you will be kicked out of the community and labeled a mosser and your kids will be kicked out of school

[Yechiel]

After reading both documents up close I am led to believe that they are both forgeries.
The nature of the texts is incoherent with these rabbis.

[jancsipista]

this is what theese hassidim live for to delude distract and falsify everytging they come in contact with, this is the nature of the beast

[What kind of goyishe name is Harold z"l?]

Shmarya, why are you so soft lately? Have you been threatened? Do you no longer feel up to the task that G-d has set forth for you? I sense something is not up to par. I know it is not easy but if you cannot live up to minimal expectations, tell G-d to annoint for us another leader.

Do you need a rabbi or a letter to teach you right and wrong and then another rabbi and letter to clarify or negate the first?

It is totally beyond my comprehension how these sickos are allowed to live. Is there not one person with a conscience and an itchy trigger finger? Give ME an address. I will carry on the legacy of Pinchos and hasten the return of the rebbe shlita (euphamism for the geulah). I can only seriously assume that the neighborhoods they choose to carry out their evil in are just as sick and perverted.

[Whythe Socks]

If the first one is a forgery, who in their right mind would put out a second letter that is given to the same potential for forgery to question th first one? They should at the least have written the second one in their own handwriting, or publish some contact info. Thereore, if the first one is false, then the second one is definitely a forgery. The question is only on the first. However, it is possble that both are either true or false.

[Eppis A. Guy]

I am not sure how this following mistake was made, but I will assume it wasn't with malicious intent.
I read the 2 letters in Hebrew above, and to my utter dismay I discovered that they say PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE OF THAT WHICH IS BEING REPORTED HERE!
the first letter, dated 13 nissan, has rabbis Gold and Flohr DEFENDING Mr. Kellner by stating that he went to court by a rabbinical ruling. Not THEIR ruling, but by an unnamed (by Gold and Flohr) rabbinical advice. (multiple distortions have been made in the article above regarding this.)
In the 2nd letter, dated on the first of chol hammoed, they retract their previous defense, by saying that further investigation has revealed that Mr. Kellner had not consulted with Rabbonim before going to court.
I just want to clarify the facts that were distorted.
I suggest the Moderator reread the two letters and see for himself whether I am right or wrong.

[Forty Eighter]

The first letter might or might not be authentic. But the second one is certainly a fake, and a bad one at that. The language used is unrefined and unscholarly, and it posits rediculous assertions. First of all it states that they condemn Kellner and then it states that the previous letter issused by them is a fake. Even though the letter head and signatures are identical to the first letter (probably copied and pasted from that very letter.) In addition, it ends off with the ridiculous statement "We hereby publicize that from here on out, any letter that shall appear in our name on this subject is a nullity." This is a blatent and silly attempt by the forger to forstall the expected disavowel by the signatories of the silly forgery.

[steinberg]

Rabbi Flohr stated publicly in his shul that he signed the first letter, and that the second letter is a forgery.

[Loshon Hora]

No matter which is forged or if both are forged. What message was the letter revealing & what significance would it have on anyone?
After the VIN ban I think letters have lost significance even if authentic, add the possible forging to the eqasion, and they mean nothing.
A letter must have a purpose, & I cannot see one here, so even if it is legit what difference does it make?
What am I missing?

[Moshe aron kestenbaum,Williamsburg ODA]

Under The Weather Rabbis.One day it rains, the next it snows,the third day it hails then its "Have a nice day". These rabbis only respond to " cash". I can only label these asses as cum stripper hoes and dough bitch pimps

[Aaron]

The 1st letter is true and anybody who has a real need in knowing which one of them are true can ask any person that Davens in any of the shuls in monsey.

These 2 rabonim are very well known in monsey and they keep no secrets and I personally know that they DID write the 1st letter

[Yechiel]

Steinberg:
If what you say is true, I stand to be corrected.

As I stated in an earlier comment, these rabbis don't play games. If they did indeed write the first letter, they gain some more respect and trust from me.
It is important for the haredi community to understand that the only way to get perverts off the streets is by reporting them to legal authorities. We have not the proper know-how, power and institutions to rehabilitate a molester or stop him from striking again. Up until recently sickos of all sorts went on undisturbed in their 'business' comforted by the fact that they will be protected under the 'Chofetz Chaim' clause and other misconceptions in halakha. Thank goodness, those days are over now.

[Yechiel]

Aaron:
My previous comment is addressed to you as well.

[pupa]

these 2 rabbis will be put into JAIL along with kellner and the so-called karmarnar rabbi for influencing somone to bribe false witness to testify! they shud be stoopid to sign such a letter