The Scandal Of Hasidic Education

In the hasidic and ultra-Orthodox communities, there is a lack of secular education, which negatively impacts those who choose to enter mainstream America. They face cultural disorientation and isolation, coupled with a lack of practical and marketable skills. In hasidic schools, many English studies teachers can barely string together a grammatically correct sentence of English. When government tests aretaken, the teachers read the questions and answer options out loud, reading the correct choice in a louder tone so that students would pass the tests.

 

Think All American Jews are Over-Educated? Think Again
Lani Santo • PresenTense Group 

The lore around the American Jewish immigrant story generally goes something like this: “Since at least the 1930s, American Jews, like other ethnic minorities, have taken it for granted that a college or university education is necessary for economic success, social advancement and meaningful civic participation,” as a November 12, 2010 Jewish Week article stated.

While this is true in most parts of the American Jewish community, in the Hassidic and Ultra-Orthodox communities, there is a lack of secular education, which negatively impacts those who choose to enter mainstream America. They face cultural disorientation and isolation, coupled with a lack of practical and marketable skills.

Footsteps, a NYC-based nonprofit, supports those seeking to explore the world beyond the ultra-religious communities in which they were raised. Founded in December 2003, Footsteps has helped over 600 individuals access educational, vocational, and social support, in the belief that all people have the right to education, to earn an income, and to religious freedom.

As executive director, I have the opportunity to meet individuals who undergo this challenging process. Avrum grew up in Borough Park and comes from a Bobov family of 17 children. Avrum always wanted to study psychology and read English literature. However, his family and community discouraged him. At age 19, after returning from a year of study in Israel, he secretly signed up for college instead of going to kollel, hiding it from his family and community. Although he did not have a high school diploma, Avrum was able to sign up for Touro College, and subsequently advanced to another university.

Avrum does not have his family’s support to attend university – he works full days to get by financially and attends school in the evenings. He also receives an academic scholarship from Footsteps. Avrum explains that although he has accomplished a lot, he feels as though he is always going to be catching up and is sure that he’ll “always feel like an outsider.” Yet at Footsteps he can find other people who have gone through similar experiences to support him emotionally as well as practically as he navigates a new world.

Avrum has taken on the issue of access to secular education in Hasidic schools in New York City, sending letters to city and state officials and seeking representation from various legal entities. He says that he would like the schools to follow state laws, which require that all children, including those educated in nonpublic schools or at home, receive the equivalent of an eighth-grade public school education, as stated in the New York State Department of Education Guidelines.

Yet from Avrum’s experience, many of his English studies teachers could barely string together a grammatically correct sentence of English. When government tests were issued, Avrum explains that the teachers read the questions and answer options out loud, reading the correct choice in a louder tone so that students would pass the tests.

Malkie Schwartz, who founded Footsteps after leaving her Lubavitch upbringing in Crown Heights, observes, “I would do whatever I could to avoid being in an Upper West Side living room when a Jewish twelfth-grade student announces to his family that he will not be heading to college as originally planned. At the same time, just a borough away–in Brooklyn–it takes a brave Ultra-Orthodox young adult to walk into their living room and disclose the horrifying reality that he or she will be heading to college.” Schwartz notes that, while not a judgment between these two perspectives, the discrepancy in values leads to economic discrepancies as well.

The lack of secular education poses a significant barrier for those raised Ultra-Orthodox communities wishing to explore life beyond their communities. As an American Jewish community increasingly paying attention to social justice issues inspires us protect those marginalized, we cannot forget to look internally.

Avrum’s name has been changed to protect his identity.

Lani Santo is the executive director of Footsteps.

[Hat Tip: Joel Katz.]

Comments

[Jewdo]

This is a pressing issue, not just for individuals who want to leave the community or explore more open forms of Orthodoxy, but for those living in the shtetl.
It is also not just a Chassidic problem as it effects members of the 'Litvish' whose haskafa shuns secular studies or work in general. Instead of raising ba'al habatim they are raising moochers or under-earners.
While Ms. Santo and people like myself may have similar points or criticism organizations like Footsteps will always be met with skepticism in the heimishe world as they help people 'leave' the community rather than stay in it and advocate for change.

[jancsipista]

what do you expect of them they cheat and steal whenever there is an opportunity to do so its elementary my dear watson:)

[chaim36]

Stop the sect. 8 housing , food stamps ,ssi, medicaid , paperless marriages and then they will be forced to WORK.

[Luke]

I, too, taught in a haredi school and was disheartened and stunned on how the system is manipulated to fain compliance with the New York State Department of Education standards. There is no way that the State observers did not know what was going on. However, obviously, they are told not to pursue the issue. I ultimately left when one day my planner was "edited" by the Rebbe and by edited I mean black marker and removed pages.
Luke

[jancsipista]

luke--its not fain, it is feign, it means to give false appearance

[Luke]

Jan:

I saw that after I sent the message. Sadly, I guess my former students would not have noted my error. Thanks for the check. Good Shabbos. Luke

[jancsipista]

luke- a good shabbas to you and a freilehen pesach:)

[jancsipista]

luke- what you are writing about i see it everyday here in boro park, by the way english is my fifth language i made sure i learn it well im still not satisfied i came here from hungary as an 11 year old .

[Yosef ben Matitya]

as they can hardly be considered as legit jews, maybe we shouldn't be concerned, except for costs incured by the taxpayers & by misguided donors.
let the state sue them into compliance with basic education laws.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

I, too, taught in a haredi school and was disheartened and stunned on how the system is manipulated to fain compliance with the New York State Department of Education standards.

Luke, an acquaintance of mine taught science at a Satmar school in the UK. He believed that he was hired a- as the lesser of 2 evils, being jewish.
b- the parents and management of the school, clearly didn't want the kids to learn sciences. he believes that the kids were directed to misbehave during the lessons to render them inneffective.

[Luke]

Wow, I knew I was not alone. :) Yosef, I feel the State would never intervene because the moment it occurred some politician would be summoned and everything squelched. So the yidden remain ignorant and dependent, just as the Rebbe needs to keep the community funded. So sad, I long for the haredi world of my grandparents' youth; music, art, culture and a profession! Good Shabbos and freilehen Pesach to all.

[tooclose2detroit]

I almost got shechted in Kiryas Yoel once when I was pretending to teach english-the kids asked me if I had any children, and I told them not yet, but my wife was going to give birth any day now-they asked me how I knew, and I showed them a "big belly"-the kids started yapping in yiddish (i dont know yiddish), and realized I had probably stepped in it-the next day, the english principal calls me in and tells me that the men of the town wanted to kill me for telling the kids that, and he had to talk them out of it---And I doubt even the men knew what a fat mama meant.

[tooclose2detroit]

also, I used to love "accidentally" writing a t on the board (without the little curve on the bottom) to drive them crazy screaming "tselem!!!"

[SatmarRebbe]

2 close. You too huh? I taught them too. They talked about me behind my back. I let them for a few days. Then when the time was right, I quietly called them on it by responding in fluent Yiddish. Have you ever seen a bunch of 9 years olds turn white and look scared enough to drop 10 pounds of brown. No problems after that lol

[Yechiel]

"Which negatively impacts those who choose to enter mainstream America".
Precisely.
That is THE reason why we keep secular education very limited; it makes one think twice before he leaves.
To those of you who hate religion; I understand your motives. Those that respect religion may understand that many of our Haredi grandparents who tried to live the American dream lost their children to intermarriage. Again, if you are irreligious and despise religion you have no issue with that, so save your fingers from doing the walking; you need not respond.
I, for one, had the 'bad' education the author becries, yet that never hindered my abilities to learn a trade etc. To me, the sky's the limit. I know plenty more like me who are either tradesmen or professionals. Those who choose to bilk the system will do so regardless. Hint: the African Americans and Hispanics etc. (even third and fourth generations who had proper schooling.)

[Jewdo]

Dear Yechiel,

Please do share what you know about the education discrepancies and obstacles facing social mobility in the African American and Hispanic communities, I am interested to hear your thoughts on the issue.

[catcher50]

This is very disturbing. I grew up in a typical American public school, and went to Hebrew school with a very good program. As a young adult, working in the Jewish Community, I learned to have great respect for those who had gone to full time Hebrew schools and got as good (well, maybe better) a secular education as I did.

What was even more impressive was that they had really learned how to learn (maybe the most important lesson available before college). They attended college (often getting advanced degrees) and still maintained their Jewish identity and remained a significant part of the Jewish community.

In my opinion, the lessons that they learned in Yeshiva were key to their success in the secular world.

BTW, both of my kids went to Jewish Day Schools. Both are well rounded people. Both have advanced degrees. Both are still Jewishly involved.

These Haredi schools, which refuse to acknowledge a larger world are absolutely destructive to Judaism.

I'm glad I'm Jewish and they're not.

[WoolSilkCotton]

++catcher50 | April 22, 2011 at 06:06 PM++

Catcher, that is also my upbringing and my same conclusions, especially about the people I've met over the years who went to full-time Jewish day schools.

[Aleksandr Sigalov]

What was even more impressive was that they had really learned how to learn (maybe the most important lesson available before college).

You are joking, right?

I'm yet to meet someone from a Yeshiva who has at least beasic understanding of critical thinking principles and logical reasoning.

In my opinion, the lessons that they learned in Yeshiva were key to their success in the secular world.

Yeah, sure. They learn how to lie, cheat, con and such. Yeah, these are great lessons from pros, alright...

[WoolSilkCotton]

Aleksandr, you are confusing pseudo-yeshiva haredi brainwashing schools with Jewish Day Schools such as:

http://www.thejec.org/

http://www.jkha.org/

[ah-pee-chorus]

Aleksandr Sigalov and WSC-

i think youre both right in different respects. graduates of yeshiva day schools tend to be fairly well prepared for college in that theyre used to dealing with a double program ,so in certain ways college is easier.they are usually proficient at studying on their own, have self discipline, and are somewhat less exposed to drugs and alcohol, though they are both fairly prevalent. they get a decent secular education, but it is nowhere near as good as that of a public school in a wealthy district. they are generally quite able to achieve success in the business and professional world.
however, almost none of them have ever been taught how to think critically and are discouraged from doing so. the few who do often go "off the derech" . but the haredi schools are of course a completely different story. their graduates are woefully unprepared to do anything but learn a trade or work with fellow haredim.

[WoolSilkCotton]

APC, good points.

A few thoughts and observations about graduates of yeshiva day schools that I've known from college, medical school, and residency:

1. They are great at memorizing tons of arcana and regurgitating it all on exams.

2. They are often troubled by the cultural, social and religious dissonance they encounter outside of the yeshiva/orthodox world.

Socializing in college, medical school, and residency often revolves around Friday night and Saturday. Either they compromise or they end up isolating themselves with other orthodox people on campus.
Typical small-talk conversation among most people each day centers around sporting events, rock/pop music, social plans, movies and TV programs, pop culture, etc. The orthodox have to remain out of the conversation, and I know how left out they feel. I was one of them.

Sports involves practice, workouts, and matches on Friday nights and Saturday, and so again they cannot participate or they try in vain to get the school to change for them.

The medical world has its busiest times and worst emergencies on Friday nights and Saturdays. That's just the way it is. Somebody always has to be on call for every specialty, 24/7. Nobody likes being on call Fridays or Saturdays. Religious guys and gals who ask for a Shomer Shabbos accomodation in medical school or residency or in group practice quickly discover:

a. It cannot be done, especially in a smaller residency or group practice.

b. There needs to be a quid-pro-quo, such as working secular holidays and extra Sundays, which the orthodox don't think they need to have to do; the orthos simply feel that they are entitled to Shabbos and Yom Tov off, including leaving early on erev Shabbos and Yom Tov, and that the non-religious or non-Jewish doctors should simply shut up and work for them. This leads to a LOT of resentment by those non-religious or non-Jewish doctors.

c. The world of medicine is not just a way to make lots of money. There really needs to be devotion and dedication to the calling. (Maybe I'm just old fashioned.) A lot of orthodox docs lack that sense of calling.

Yes, there are exceptions, and there are a lot of terrific orthodox people I know in the medical world, but there are way too many stinkers who cause a hillul hashem among their colleagues.

Does secular higher education lead to some ortho's going 'off the derech'? Yes. But how strong is the derech if it can't handle competition from a pizza party in the next room, or going to watch your school's football game, or covering emergency admissions on a Friday night?
Is the Jewish orthodox religion so weak that it can only be maintained by remaining isolated in your own little mental and physical ghetto?

There are some ortho people I know who are successful and dedicated docs, religiously strong and devout, and I salute them. And I know a lot of ortho stinkers among religious doctors, too.

The orthodox rules are designed to keep you isolated from the non-ortho and non-Jewish world. You are further taught by your religious leaders that the non-ortho/non-Jewish world is evil, antisemitic, amoral, and your natural enemies.

When you then try to become a part of that world, something has to give- you realize you were misinformed by your religious leaders. You can stay strong with your observance while participating in what you can socially, invite people into your social world, recognize that non-ortho and non-Jewish people are kind and well-meaning, etc., or you can withdraw into a state of isolation at school and live with the psychological consequences.

[Gevezener Chusid]

I have a college diploma (3.8 GPA) and have always had crappy administrative jobs that I detested.

My kid "graduated" from a Hassidic yeshiva, wears a shtreiml on Shabbos, has an important job in a non-Jewish place that he loves, and makes, honestly, 3 times more money than I do. He is highly respected by everyone who knows him, both Jewish and non-Jewish. I am very proud of his accomplishments.

There is education and there is education.

Parnassah comes from God.

[catcher50]

OK, We're coming from different generations.

I'm coming from a situation where there were no Schecter schools. The folks I'm referring to would have started school between '39 & 48. The Haredi plague had not hit the US, yet.

At that point, standard Orthodox schools provided an education that allowed them to succeed in college. Not Harvard or Georgetown, which had quotas, but certainly at public schools, like CCNY (now CUNY), George Washington, etc.

[seymour]

I have a college diploma (3.8 GPA) and have always had crappy administrative jobs that I detested.

My kid "graduated" from a Hassidic yeshiva, wears a shtreiml on Shabbos, has an important job in a non-Jewish place that he loves, and makes, honestly, 3 times more money than I do. He is highly respected by everyone who knows him, both Jewish and non-Jewish. I am very proud of his accomplishments.

There is education and there is education.

Parnassah comes from God.

Posted by: Gevezener Chusid | April 23, 2011 at 08:44 PM

any person who has a college degree already knows that your example in nonsense.

It is like saying do not wear set belt because I know someone who is alive because they did not wear one.

Maybe true but in 490 of 500 cases they would be dead. Maybe you want to play the small odds I will play for the odds that in my favor

[Shmuley Shmiley]

If it is worth knowing, it is in the Torah. If it is not in the Torah, then why waist time learning it?

[Yechiel]

Seymour:
The message that Gevezener is trying to convey is that having a college degree does not guarantee one anything. I have toagree. Many individuals posting rhetoric on this site have college degrees, yet are losers in all aspects. They simply did not make it in life; hence all the bitterness and resentment.
Yes, too many haredim are unscrupulous in money matters... yet there are so many who entered the workforce and are fairly successful. They earn an honest living. There is nothing wrong with that.
No, not everyone needs to study in college rigorously for several years to earn a doctorate etc. For the majority of people a trade works just fine. Many college graduates have nothing to show other than their diplomas... they are struggling to make ends meet.
The mentality of non haredi ego maniacs is that all jews need to be highly educated. That is their sole issue. Haredim, however, understand that what counts is the bottom line and seek the most feasible way to reach that. I do agree that some get to that bottom line thru crookery... but that is definitely not the majority.

[Yechiel]

Jewdo:
I meant to give an example of those who choose to live off the system even when educated thru the public school system. I named 2 groups that are common knowledge to New Yorkers...

Yes, it was an honor to meet individuals from both groups who are very bright and worked their way up the rungs to great success. But if you have some free time, go check the lines at the welfare offices... and see for yourself what I am referring to.

Education or lack thereof is not THE deciding factor.
Many of you are too narrow minded to process that.

[anuran]

Shmuley Shmiley writes:
If it is worth knowing, it is in the Torah. If it is not in the Torah, then why waist time learning it?

Nononononono. You're misquoting. "If these books contain things which are not in the Quran they are heretical. If they contain things which are in the Quran they are redundant. Burn them all." (attributed to the Caliph Omar who ordered the final destruction of the Great Library at Alexandria)

[WoolSilkCotton]

Why 'waist' time learning how to spell and write properly?

[ah-pee-chorus]

WSC- thanks for a thorough analysis @ April 23, 2011 at 04:32 PM

anuran- way to put things in perspective!!

[WoolSilkCotton]

APC, you're welcome.

If you're in the NY area, enjoy the first warm sunny day of the spring!

[WoolSilkCotton]

Yechiel, why are hasidic children forbidden to enter the public libraries in Brooklyn?

[Yoel Mechanic]

>public liberries

Wool Silk Cotton, first, thanks for your informative post on medical school (and it is a example of really useful things that ought to appear on discussion forums since it is based on experience)

I know of kids who are not allowed to use public libraries (aka liberries) to prepare essays (who knows what you might be exposed to?) HOWEVER are encouraged to use internet to look thing up in. The irony is rather striking. And this typifies the poorly thought out educational policies.

[WoolSilkCotton]

You're welcome, Yoel.

Our frumma brethren are woefully behind the times in so many ways, mostly because they are convinced that they are smarter than everyone else, and that the lessons of others don't apply to them. Mix in plenty of paranoia, and they are stuck forever in medieval times.

What did frumma clergy learn from the Catholic clergy child molestation scandals? Nothing. They see nothing relevant to themselves.

Why no real Holocaust education in frumma schools? Talk to any frummer about factual details concerning 1933-45. They know next to nothing. Holocaust education for frumma kids would lead to questions and doubts about God. Mustn't allow that. Better to remain ignorant.

Who runs frumma schools? Nobody with any formal training in teaching or administration. Result? Kids who are not prepared for the real world, and schools bankrupt by corrupt and incompetent leadership.

[seymour]

Yechiel

I agree with you, all I said if one goes to college they have a better chance of succeeding statistically.

The college myth is not only a Jewish one but American one. Not everybody is college material for varies different reason.

Those should be provided with financial aid just like college students to learn trades car mechanic, electrician, HVAC and other stuff. And not put down people who want to enter such fields

[WoolSilkCotton]

Seymour, I agree. The skilled trades you mention require basic English skills in mathematics, reading and writing. The frumma don't even want to learn these basics.
Those frumma who want to learn skilled trades are mocked and looked down upon in the frumma velt. That will not change. Grants are available for such education, but those grants are usually handed over to yeshivas (and into the bank accounts of those who run the yeshiva) before a young man has a chance to consider trade school.

While college is not for everyone, and college does not guarantee success, everyone does need to learn basic English skills, mathematics, and have a plan to be educated as a productive citizen who can support himself and his family. Then, you need to make smart decisions about career choices, jobs you apply for, marketing yourself, etc. That, diligent and honest effort, and a bit of luck will result in help from Above.

If you want to meet successful people, attend an early Shachris minyan. Those who don't show up for Shachris until 10am or later are illustrating why they are unsuccessful.

[Yoel Mechanic]

>Those frumma who want to learn skilled trades are mocked and looked down upon in the frumma velt.

This mockery is something I am really AGAINST.

>That will not change.

Hm... very sad. hope it will change.
It will only change when Roshei Yeshivot
are part-timers so they can manage their
carpentry business in the morning or after
noon. There were Rabbis in the Gemorah
who did this, and it will have to return.

> Grants are available for such education, but those grants are usually handed over to yeshivas (and into the bank accounts of those who run the yeshiva) before a young man has a chance to consider trade school.

Elaborate in detail please: what grants?
handed over to whom?

[catcher50]

@WSC...to quote a now outdated cliche, Right On!

You are absolutely right. Somehow, trades and making an honest living with your hands has become looked down upon. Tevye was a milkman. My forebears were in the tanning business (on the other side they were supposed to have been horse-thieves, but if everyone who makes that "claim" were right, the main occupation in eastern Europe would have been stealing horses from one another).

If we could get over it, and understand that going to JuCo and becoming an electrician or a plumber would guarantee a good living for 40 years, we would all be better off. Also, many more of us would have the time to learn and study. Also, we'd have the time for our families, to become active in the Jewish community, and not allow Judaism, in the eyes of the non-Jewish world, to be co-opted by the Haredim.

But I rant on.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Catcher, there is a guy in my neighborhood who runs a business in which he goes around installing electronic 'invisible' dog fences. This is a suburban neighborhood with one-family homes, and a lot of people have a pet dog. He makes a great living. He has a college degree.

Another guy is a chauffeur, drives a large car and gives people rides to the airport and train station. He is booked full every day, because he is honest, friendly and reliable. No ride is too early or too late for him. He is a religious Christian with 8 children.

Another guy went to trade school, learned to be a car mechanic, got a job at a dealership. After a couple of years, he and 3 other guys who worked in the service department there bought an old run down gas station here in town. It is now a thriving business. If you need help with your car, everybody has his cell phone number, 24/7.

Smart industrious people wake up early, don't turn down work opportunities, look for work doing what people need, look to do what others don't want to do, etc.

How many hasidic bus drivers, cabbies, postal workers, UPS/FedEx delivery men do you see in the NYC area? Zero.

The frumma expect handouts. Work and waking up early are beneath their dignity. Taking welfare is not. Go figure.

[ah-pee-chorus]

WSC- i just got back from 3 hours of biking and basketball. its about time the 7 months of winter ended. i hope you got to enjoy the day also.

[Yoel Mechanic]

>How many hasidic bus drivers, cabbies, postal workers, UPS/FedEx delivery men do you see in the NYC area? Zero.

The question is how many. I know an electrician, I know a mechanic. Have email forwarded to me if you need to get in touch to find out how many. Also check out
in the advertising for Shomer Shabbos plumbing etc.

[WoolSilkCotton]

APC, I also did a good run in the sun! But then I watched the Yankees blow a lead in the 9th against the Orioles, and now there's a rain delay in the 11th. Oy.

Yoel, another issue is the economics of the frum community. Working outside the community and bringing in a paycheck stimulates the frum community's economy far better than working for the shul or yeshiva.

Unfortunately, I doubt if frum tradesmen will come to suburban NJ for repair jobs.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Wishing everyone here a good Yom Tov for the final two days, and looking forward to Tuesday night pizza!

[Yechiel]

WSC
For a change I agree with you...
The success or lack thereof is dependent on what time one shows up to Shaharith. Sleepers do not succeed.

Gut Yom Tov to all

[David]

Nononononono. You're misquoting. "If these books contain things which are not in the Quran they are heretical. If they contain things which are in the Quran they are redundant. Burn them all." (attributed to the Caliph Omar who ordered the final destruction of the Great Library at Alexandria)

Posted by: anuran | April 24, 2011 at 04:01 AM

There is an interesting discussion on the origin of this quote at http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/?p=4936

Unfortunately the attitude of the Charedi imposters is rather similar - to them secular knowledge counts for nothing. It is nothing for them to destroy books - I recall one of the recent FM stories where someone mentioned that they had literally thrown a whole library of rare Yiddish books into a basement and then abused the people that came to try and rescue them.

[Aleksandr Sigalov]

Aleksandr, you are confusing pseudo-yeshiva haredi brainwashing schools with Jewish Day Schools such as:

http://www.thejec.org/

http://www.jkha.org/

Its the same thing, except brainwashing is more "washed out" ;) (pun is intended)

[online writer jobs]

After a couple of years, he and 3 other guys who worked in the service department there bought an old run down gas station here in town. It is now a thriving business.productive citizen who can support himself and his family. Then, you need to make smart decisions about career choices, jobs you apply for, marketing yourself, etc. That, diligent and honest effort, and a bit of luck will result in help from Above.