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April 13, 2011

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ZZB

Come on, any frum girl should not be dressed in public like she is in the picture.
If she thought it would be fine, she wasn't thinking.

Alter Kocker

She wasn't Haredi, just observant. The school has no business in the girl's private life. A visit to the school with a lawyer in tow might change the principal's mind, especially if his ruling may backfire on his status.

Althelion

Ms. Mader is better off living without the oppression of the draconian rabbi overlords. If she is an outstanding student, she should pursue her dreams, whatever they are, and not be sentenced to a life of breeding and housework.

effie

Yep. The expulsion is an opportunity. Take it and run. She looks great, by the way.

Dave

If that's really the picture of Ms. Mader, well she is not less modestly dressed than women in the days of the Temple (1st or 2nd Temples). But hey, we're more frum than Miriam Hanaviah or Moshe Rabbenu, aren't we?(sarcasm!)

tooclose2detroit

beautiful?-she has a nose the size of NJ-I would slap myself in the morning.

A E ANDERSON | Christchurch, New Zealand

This is a good opportunity for the Israeli Education Ministry to take a stand limiting educational institutions to acting on instructional rather than extraneous social, political or religious matters. Separation of synagogue and state has to begin somewhere.

state of disgust

What's next?
Do they want to check her virginity?
Where does this stop!
What she does outside the classroom is her business. Any interference in matters outside of school should result in a lawsuit. IF Bibi can sue for libel, she can sue for damages to her reputation.

Garnel Ironheart

It's the school's loss. And if she goes OTD, they'll have to answer for it in shamayim.
But who are you kidding? She didn't think there was a problem with the dress in the photo?

Althelion

tooclose2-

Ms. Mader is a beautiful young women. The size of her nose!?! Are you serious!?!

I bet you're a real catch yourself.

Dude, why would you insult a teenage girl's appearance?

BronxJew

I guess the principal would have had a fit back in the olden days, when Jewish girls would go out to the vineyards dressed in white, dancing and singing in order to win a suitor. There is a Baraita that says that the pretty girls would emphasize their beauty while singing to the boys, saying, "Tenu Eyneychem LeYofi, She'Eyn Ha'Isha Ela Le'Yofi" (idiomatic translation: "Consider beauty, for that is the essence of womanly virtue").
For the psychosexual health of our People, I think we need to return to our ancient, more open attitude toward physical beauty and love.

BronxJew

By the way, that courtship ceremony took place on the fifteenth of Av, which along with Yom Kippur was considered the best (i.e. happiest) day on the calendar.

maven

It took place both on Yom Kippur and the Fifteenth of Av.

tooclose2detroit

Dude, why would you insult a teenage girl's appearance?
Althelion

I am ugly as sin, but I didnt run and win in any beauty contests-although, with the judges that judged this one, I think I couldve done pretty well.-this chick could run advertisements on the side of her nose, and she may get carpal tunnel syndrome from applying the 12 pounds of lipstick on her lips-cmon dude, liten up.

Loshon Hora

If she is so beautiful, at least it won't affect her shidduch.
I guess many will chase her, & she will take the exams at home privatly, or in the non-religious school.
I guess she made a mistake, will correct it & they should forgive her.
Had she not won it would be a non-issue.
If we are accepted by G-d with tshuvah so should she be.

tooclose2detroit

I guess she made a mistake, will correct it & they should forgive her.
Had she not won it would be a non-issue.
If we are accepted by G-d with tshuvah so should she be.

Posted by: Loshon Hora | April 13, 2011 at 10:46 AM

LH-a "mistake" is if you buy skim milk when you meant to buy regular milk,not a deliberate thought out action--and in any case, from what I can see, SHE doesnt think she did anything wrong, so doesnt look like she is going to be asking the Big Guy in da Sky to forgive her anytime soon.-If she wants to be a beauty queen, then be a beauty queen.

ah-pee-chorus

i wonder if the hundreds of whores king david had in his stable would have been rebuked for entering a beauty contest.
maybe we can look to the fine amora in the gemara who was said to have slept with every single hooker in the world and would make a point to have sex with any new ones he became aware of.
the current rabbinical stance of sexual repression has no basis in jewish history.

Wondering

Is that her hair or a shaitel

BronxJew

If you delete everything from ah-pee-chorus except the vulgar usages, he comes across as a Tourette's sufferer.

RiverdaleApikorus

Hey BronxJew- you still live in our fair boro?

RiverdaleApikorus

I think we all need some Yalili...

..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fXIMUyrw7s

BronxJew

Libi BaBronx Va'Ani BeSof Long Island.

jay

Aifoh b'bronx nolad'tah?

ah-pee-chorus

BronxJew -

which words did you find vulgar? 'whore', 'hooker', 'sex', or 'david'?

BronxJew

You know the South Bronx? "Shu'alim Ketanim Mechablim Keramim"...

ah-pee-chorus

tooclose- i agree with earlier posters that there is no need to insult this girls looks. aside from the fact that she looks beautiful, what relevance does it have to the issue? and would you like it if your 17 year old daughters appearance was fodder for a bunch of internet posters from around the world to pass judgement on?

unProfessor

    And not a single person here is bothered that these "beauty contests" serve to objectify women, and are actually demeaning; not much different than a dog contest or slave sale?!

jay

@BronxJew-
garti b'pelham pkwy

BronxJew

Sham Hayiti Gam Ken.
I don't often communicate in Leshon HaKodesh in English characters. It's sort of like playing the piano with oven mitts on your hands.

tooclose2detroit

and would you like it if your 17 year old daughters appearance was fodder for a bunch of internet posters from around the world to pass judgement on?
apc

i think that a difference here would be that if my 17 yr old daughter entered a beauty contest, then she would open it up for comment-i will give you an analogy-if i am singing alone in the shower, and I suck, then someone would be off if they criticized my singing-if i go on the street and start singing publicly, and I suck, then I would think that I should expect to be criticized-so, if my daughter is walking down the street and someone says she is ugly, that is nice-but if she is ugly, and walks around with a sign saying "look at how beautiful I am", then people are right to say she is ugly, if they think so-I think this girl is far from what I would consider a beauty pageant winner, and seeing it is in Israel, then I wouldnt be surprised if there was corruption involved in her winning anyhow, unfortunately.

tooclose2detroit

And not a single person here is bothered that these "beauty contests" serve to objectify women, and are actually demeaning; not much different than a dog contest or slave sale?!

Posted by: unProfessor

I am not sure, but I didnt see anything about someone putting a gun to any of their heads, or to the heads of the hundreds of thousand of women worldwide that enter these shows-perhaps women arent as bothered by these things as the politically correct would like them to be.

dave

she is hot!

Jon

Posted by: tooclose2detroit | April 13, 2011 at 01:43 PM

Beauty is in the eye of beholder and you sound jealous of the girl. why?

tooclose2detroit

why would be jealous of a girl?-i am a male-ya think i wanna look like a girl? I think she has much too much lipstick on, and anyone that needs that much "red, hot" lipstick is not very pretty-and if I say so, then it is so. and thats that.-and if you disagree with me, then I will pray that your nose get as large as hers.

jay

@bronxjew- farvos nisht? ;-)

ah-pee-chorus

tooclose- yes, she entered a pageant and must accept the methods of judging which she knew would be involved. i'm guessing the scoring is done on paper and is tallied to find the winner. if instead the judges were known to verbalize such comments as "boy is she ugly" or "what a huge nose you have", then many contestants would probably not enter the pageant.
there is a large difference between finding out you got an 8.3 , and hearing directly insulting comments. and when you add the fact that she is probably a minor, theres no need to act as though you have been called on to judge her appearance.
thats where i'm coming from.

tooclose2detroit

yeah, yer right-I am havin a crappy day.---but she has on WAY too much lipstick, and I always thought that much lipstick made a woman look like a streetwalker.

ah-pee-chorus

you're incorrigible. LOL

jay

@tooclose2detroit. Funny, too much lipstick always reminds me of older Jewish women from Lawng Island who also have on too much makeup, hairspray and have 3 inch nails.

tooclose2detroit

thats it!-the times my parents dragged me to The Concord,(ahh yess, the Concord-)and women would dress up like this-never understood why women do that to themselves-this is what i think of in the morning when i say sha lo asannee eesha---no makeup, no need for a new outfit-just the same stupid white shirt and black pants-

Mohaa

well thats it. She will become on of those that will be taken only for her beauty! this girl will not study in the future. She has something else in her mind!

nobody

How can I get my rabbis in contact with her shadchan?

Leah

Headline is deceiving since I think she would have been expelled even if she did not win the pageant. It was her entry into the pageant that got her expelled not her winning.

A E ANDERSON | Christchurch, New Zealand

I never could figure out how women wore those clothes at the Concord. When I was there, I was so stuffed with their magnificent food that I could hardly do up my trousers, and had to waddle back to my room until the next feed. They used to have like 15 different types of herring at breakfast -- and you could order them all! It was probably owned by cardiologists or funeral directors. And they would thoughtfully issue me with a bag of sandwiches to nosh on the long drive back to the city. At the Concord, to be Jewish was to eat and to eat was to be Jewish. No harediisms, no bull.

A E ANDERSON | Christchurch, New Zealand

Completely off topic and utterly non-kosher (halakhically, not spiritually) is Sammy's Roumanian Steakhouse, 157 Chrystie St (between Delancey & Rivington). There are pitchers of schmaltz on the tables to pour over your food. Which is already laced with shmaltz and gribenes as if they were truffles. The huge Roumanian tenderloin (skirt) steaks overwhelm your plate, the chopped liver is to die-for, the serving shiksas are hot, the vodka is frozen, the music is tacky and the live bar mitzva music gets everybody dancing.

It is not true that NYC health inspectors don't visit the place. When I dined there last, they asked that I put out my cigarette until the two uniformed health inspectors dining at a nearby table finished their dinners.

If you ever want to bribe a politician, this is the place to bring him 'cause the place is so greasy and period that you won't feel out of place or guilty handing over that rumpled paper bag.

tooclose2detroit

I went with my father to the Concord way, way after its heydey, and he cried-I said, why are you crying, dad?-and he said "tooclose2detroit", this was my favorite place on earth, and now its dead-so, i asked,, why the hell did you name me that anyhow?-nah, i didnt ask him that.

flailed

Are we serious here? In Bnei Brak as far back as the early 80's a girl could get expelled from school for wearing her briefcase over her shoulder or not putting her hair into a pony tail. What was this girl thinking? Making this into a shocking story takes away from the truly outrageous things we are witnessing in Orthodox schools.

Dr. Dave

So orthodoxy is upset over the exploitation and objectification of women?

Anyone else find that a little hypocritical?

BTW "...it's a scholarship competition not a beauty pageant" - Miss Congeniality

tooclose2detroit

what is the scholarship for?-"makeup application academy"?

Michael Gaiman

She should be made to join that Haredi Chador-wearing cult, the shonda :)

Western Jew

Too provokative. That said, kicking her out of a school is unorthodox and not a very Torah preserving behavior. She should have been permitted to make her own choice, but that said, one may not have wished to be her acquaintance any longer. I would have asked her to leave the school for a 2 week period and let her continue. That way she gets to stay in the place of education ultimately and she will clearly be seen as someone who has indeed violated our Orthodox Values. To cut her entirely is completely inappropriate and stinks of the trust destroying manners that is so prevalent in many Orthodox Communities. No wonder why children go off the derech and find ways to live besides Torah. This is indeed a very horrible story and it only brings Torah to the bottom of the cabinet of Jewish life. Sad story guys. But she still was in bad form.

Yoel Mechanic

Expulsion was a vast over-reaction. These extreme measures ultimately do more harm than good.

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