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April 21, 2011


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Adam Neira

No worries Ruthie. You have a good day as well.


thank you adam.
i will learn from your wise post.
i also come from the family of king david.
have an amazing day.
thank you again.

Adam Neira

To Aleksandr Sigalov,

Christianity falls down about whether or not Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled the Messianic imperatives. But the three great monotheistic faiths are all routes to the ultimate redemption of humankind where all people will worship the one G-d. The actual redemption has been going on for awhile and could be completed by 2050 if everyone plays their cards right, bizrat hashem.

Adam Neira

To Ruthie,

Seven points...

(1)Sorry I am not a contortionist and cannot manage your first suggestion.

(2)About Michal...

II Samuel 6

16: And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart. 20 : Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel today, who uncovered himself today in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself ! 21 : And David said unto Michal, It was before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play before the LORD. 22 : And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honor. 23 : Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

Michal really cared for King David earlier in the story. There was genuine affection and concern between them. But people, especially men, around her sabotaged her feelings and made her doubt herself. They wanted to destroy the connection she had with King David. They did this for political purposes and because they were jealous of him even though they wouldn’t admit it. They used her as a puppet whilst he wanted to make her his queen. King David went through extreme trials of faith during his life before his sovereignty was realised and this was just another one of them. Michal was also not really courageous. She had just pretended to be righteous. She also sabotaged the healthy friendships he had with other women. Playing with the King’s heart was to be her undoing. Those that sought to undo King David also suffered.

P.S. He is my great grandfather x 100 on the patrlineal line via Solomon.

(3) No idea why you brought up the number of children people have issue. I want two I think, but that is beside the point. It will depend on my wife and G-d.

(4) Re. "Are You Normal ?" tag...

PA Spokesman: Settlers Are not Normal People (INN – 24/04/2011)

This is one of the easiest labels to pin on a person or group to mock, ridicule, undermine or slander them. Adolescents use this pejorative all the time. What is "normal" in today's world pray tell ? Every human being alive occupies some point in the healing/awareness spectrum. I am happy to explain what constitutes wellbeing in the spiritual, sexual, physical, emotional, social and financial realm.

(5) Regarding the possibility of you being transported back to pre-First Temple Era Jerusalem in 960 bce for a possible amorous liaison with the King...I’m sure he would have liked spirited women but not aggressive ones. He would have been attracted to kind, feminine, pretty, wise, strong women. A man must at their core be assertive and a woman receptive. He was a real man so would have preferred a certain dance of attraction, romance, courtship and intimacy.

(6) Re. Knowledge

We all have areas of expertise. You can give people scores based on their skill at certain things. For example with cooking I get an "F". Depends on the time and motivation you have to learn something new. Some people throughout their lives are forced to confront, absorb and deal with new information. It is all about degrees.

(7) You end on a positive note. We all learn something new every day. That is also why we need good people around us like in a team. Only G-d is omniscient.

Aleksandr Sigalov

Orthodox Jews believe in the Twelfth Article of Faith, i.e. Moshiach whilst fundamentalist Christians believe that Jesus of Nazareth will return in a Second Coming.

The word "moshiach" means "an anointed one". Both faith, thus, share the same concept. Not to mention that according to both faith prefered "moshiach" has to be from the line of David.

Its the same faith and concept of beliefs, brah... it pretty much Christianity...


go fuck yourself.
mocked king david.....that woman was stupid...i would have fucked king david...
you are soooooooo stupid. and who wants to have more than 3 or 4 kids....are you normal.?
and i do not profess to "know a lot" as you do.
i, adam, wish i knew as much as i don't.

Adam Neira

Three points for readers to ponder...

(1)Many women who cannot seduce or control a man will end up trying to destroy them. This comes from a place of deep ingrained negative conditioning. Ditto men, reverse, you get my drift. The egocentricity of love versus a more expansive Frommian view.

(2)Correcting a woman does not imply misogyny if the correction is valid. Just like correcting a child does not imply child abuse.

(3) Many lonely singles get close on internet chat forums, even political ones, because of a deep need to get some intimacy. Opinions and positions that may not be corrected are then reinforced. Lowest common denominator stuff prevails. They should get out into the real world more. Nothing beats the zing of face to face meetings. Cyberspace romances are as fulfilling as mouldy matzah.

Adam Neira

To Ruthie,

I "know" quite a lot actually. Be careful who you cast dispersions on. I am little busy right now and I haven't got time to look it up but I just forgot the name of the woman in the Tanach who mocked King David that was left barren. Do you know her name by any chance ?


Just as they don't register marriages with the state so they can claim to be "single" mothers, does anyone know if they bother to record deaths with the state? Or do their dead just keep on collecting welfare indefinitely? Does any government agency bother to check on these crooks?


meant to write a gitte voch and a gitten moed


wool silk cotton
a gitten voch and a gitten moed to you

couldn't have said it better...

you may write well...you may be educated...but uh....you don't know shit.

pearl of wisdom...
i know they ALL have cleaning ladies...ALL OF THEM...
when i pass new square, i see the cleaning help waiting for the bus. they all have cleaning help...


a what is strange about all this is that the late satmer rebbie was against kollel.

In addition who says they do not educate their children, that is BS. How do you think the new generation learn how to scam the system? on their own? No it is taught from generation to generation.

What is real sickening is that they think they are the real orthodox jews. And sadly we and others just play into that.

we need to speak loudly that they do not represent Judaism in any shape or form and really cut them off as the pagans they are


Ruthie, thanks, and a Gutt Voche and Gutten Moed.



you are completely right.


Adam, you are totally wrong.

There is a difference between 'decent clothes' and wearing a hat or wig that costs $5000, especially if you are living on the taxpayers' dole.

Since you are not in this part of the USA, you continue to give them the benefit of the doubt, but the facts here are otherwise.

Adam Neira

To Ruthie,

Maybe the Satmars and other Jewish groups with similar beliefs are waiting for Moshiach to come along adnd explain a few things to them ? I don't like the idea of anyone or any group being isolated, excluded, marginalised or not made to feel wanted.


I have never visited Kiryas Joel so don't know what level of materialism they enjoy. The report is pretty clear however. But having fine silverware, a beautiful shul and decent clothes seem to be reasonable little luxuries and a bit of class compared to people with Mc Mansions, 56 inch Plasma TV's, four cars in the drive and enough home appliances to drain the energy supplies of Eritrea in a day. Some quality with objects is fine. I am sure the majority of the Satmar community is not interested in materialism for materialism's sake. The would not attach much meaning to objects per se. One of the most redeeming qualities of many orthodox Jewish groups is that they don't suffer from status anxiety like many people in the West.

To Aleksandr Sigalov,

I have no idea what you mean by your statement. Orthodox Jews believe in the Twelfth Article of Faith, i.e. Moshiach whilst fundamentalist Christians believe that Jesus of Nazareth will return in a Second Coming.

Pearl of Wisdom

I find it interesting that this article does not mention New Square. All of the same things are true here. What I really want to know is who is paying for all the illegals who clean the houses in KJ and New Square? When other people are on food stamps and every social welfare program under the sun, they don't hire people to clean their houses. Just drive past the bus stop on RT 45 across from New Square after 6:00 at night. There are droves of Latino people waiting wearily to go home on a bus. You won't find Latino's cleaning the houses where the poor black folks live in Spring Valley. It is so blatant and in your face, like they are daring people to question their lifestyle choices.

Aleksandr Sigalov

Your reference to the Amish is interesting and relevant. It is important to note however that the Satmars believe in the Twelfth Article of Faith, whilst the Amish believe in the Second Coming of Jesus of Nazareth.

Yes, and may I point out that one of these so-called "articles of faith" speak of a belief in the so-called "moshiach".

So yes, you are right. Orthodox Judaism as of today is just another form of Christianity.





yes, very very true.....and they all have social services...pardon, did i write have...i meant TAKE

including lebovic or however you spell his name...biggest real estate family in monsey....lol...when his youngest sister got married the family made her get food stamps...i asked why? they told me they resented paying taxes...and wanted the money back.
and while collecting food stamps...she went shopping with mommy every day. she probably has a house full of kids now...and is getting much more. yeah. and they're religious. hahahahahahahahahahahah


Bantam, good point.

"materialism, status or narcissism" is everything to them. Ultra expensive wigs for the women ($3000 and up), baby strollers for $1500, men's hats, shtreimlech, silk black men's coats, all for 1000's.

Palatial synagogues.

The most elaborate silver on the table at home, both religious items and dining ware. Esrogs for hundreds, even thousands of dollars. Anything less and you're not part of the 'in' crowd.

Thinking the whole world owes them everything, and the US law doesn't apply to them? That's not narcissism?

Adam, please, you're smarter than that.


Adam Neira, you're absolutely right; the main picture is a testimony to "the simple joy in their homes" and perfectly reflects their lack of interest in "materialism, status or narcissism."



i make my own.
try rockland kosher, monsey glatt, or wesley kosher for brand A & B.



Ruthie, this is off topic, but where is the best place to buy gifilte fish? I went to Wesley Kosher last week and bought some, but it does not have the date on it. I used to buy it at Manhattan Kosher Deli in Montvale, but Allen closed the store.


you ask...

What is your opinion on Kethubos 111a ?

Do you know of Mar Samuel ?

Why such antipathy towards your Jewish brethren ?
1. let's see they lie, steal and cheat on a massive scale and you want me to take kethubos seriously? seriously adam?
2. i loved loved the hasidim..loved them...until i moved to monsey....and got to know them very well....now i'm shocked at their behavior.
i spit on all their books adam...until they lead by example.

Gefilte Fish

The single mother scam among the Satmar is also tied into the aguna problem. Since many of the women are not married according to NY state (having only a ketuba), they are at the full mercy of their husbands and the Satmar courts.



6) If they are so "religious" why don't they fulfill their Halachic obligation of working and looking after their families and also educating their children so they can one day work? Where in the Torah does it say it is OK to not work and sit in Kollel and drink coffee, smoke and fart all day?


1) With most of them functionally illiterate in English it is a testament to their efficiency as thieves, liars and cheats among government agencies such as social security etc and private individuals/companies that they manage to hide so much real income or otherwise evade their fiscal obligations.

2) Has anyone done the exercise of comparing claimed income in that geographic area with government welfare payments to the same area?

3) I wonder what the average number of identities (i.e. social security numbers) is per KJ resident?

4) KJ should be a rich and productive hunting ground for some young career-minded government investigator that speaks Yiddish and wants to expose and prosecute such anti-Jewish scams by these East European pagans.

5) As a culture of cheats they are much like the Ferengi in Star Trek - The Next Generation.


@YM: I'm well aware of the Amish man. If you note, he took full responsibility and is working with his community to make reparations to them. Compare this to the Haredim we so often hear about who hide or protect their criminals, while persecuting the victims.

Adam Neira

To Ruthie,

What is your opinion on Kethubos 111a ?

Do you know of Mar Samuel ?

Why such antipathy towards your Jewish brethren ?

To Jay...

Your reference to the Amish is interesting and relevant. It is important to note however that the Satmars believe in the Twelfth Article of Faith, whilst the Amish believe in the Second Coming of Jesus of Nazareth.

To Anon,

Thanks for your kind, intelligent, uplifting input on this august forum. Are you related to the Corfu Shul firebombers by any chance ?


I hate these Jews who steal from us. These are the same guys who run Goldman Sachs and destroyed our country. Hitler should have killed every one of you.



Yoel Mechanic

>Posted by: dimlat

Mr Dim, for better or worse, is making a generalization about a limited group of people who post on this blog. The accuracy is rather dubious, and of limited value: nothing more or less.

Rav Ashmadai

SIngle mothers? I don't get it. I'd assume that practically all mothers in KJ are married or divorced. Are there really out of wedlock births?

You are so innocent, they get married by a rabbi but never with the states so they can collect welfare a single mothers. That way you see single mother with names duch as Gitty, Yochi, Bluma and Bassy


SIngle mothers? I don't get it. I'd assume that practically all mothers in KJ are married or divorced. Are there really out of wedlock births?


The Amish represent a much better model of austere living then do the Satmar. They refuse medicaid, food stamps, social security and medicare. With the exception of isolated teenage incidents they tend to be crime free. They work very hard to take care of themselves and each other.


10 million dollars in state and federal grants so new mothers can relax before they go home. No other religious group has this. Why aren't tax payers enraged? If the new mothers need to get away from their families to rest before going home, perhaps they should have their tubes tied.


and in their wacky world of religious self-righteousness they are sure they are doing gods will more than others and rewards await them. delusion is funny that way.


mittlemench- you hit the nail on its head i think.


Single mothers. That's the key. When that scam gets revealed, the entire house of cards should come down. And not just in Kiryas Joel


You all should be so ashamed...these are good people, not all of them are on welfare and not all of them have granite counters in their kitchen. They live, for the most part, modestly and take care of each other. It should be a model to every corner in our country that poverty doesnt need to equal criminal behaviour.


gevezener chusid-so according to youre assersion with which i agree 100 per cent their income is above 100 grands with all the handouts sec8 food stamlos vouches unbeleivable they got it all figured out the whole system i cant blame them but its a gigantic hillel hashem.


dimlat- you dimwitted putz, youre guilty of the thing that youre accusing others of , the self hate by you is even worst then theirs


the vitriol and hatred (Bassy, you are way out of line!!) peddled here is hearsay and rumour. of course there will be welfare cheats in these communities, of course it is wrong, but, on balance, are you guilty of judging people with double standards?? why dont you sad bloggers get a life, and get on with your own lives?? i must admit to a certain morbid fascination with this site (hence my reading it, and occasional posting), but the sad self-hating jews who appear to be the backbone of this site are really something else!!

Gevezener Chusid

they are not really poor - they just work off the books


BASSY-Its not their fault if the system falls for their duping its the systems fault, and its not only hungarian and romanians its others the litvaks for one, i am of hungarian decent please dont put me tothether with them i dont do any of those shtiklerai stuff.


bassy, please ....the holocaust....it's in very bad taste and very vicious. as much as i hate these cheating bastards i would have risked my life to save them from the holocaust.


True , they are POOR on PAPER.This fraud has got to stop. Sect.8 , food stamps , ssi , paperless marriages etc.When this blows up many should go to jail and join the minyan in Bais Ganavim Otissville.

who knows

Bassy, your statement about the Holocaust is vicious and is in a bad taste.


My friend owns a cleaning service there. Many of them own their own homes but put the homes under various corporate names. Then they collect section 8 to pay their own mortgages! None have been caught so far. I hear almost every house has a granite kitchen counter and stainless steel appliances for their gourmet tastes. One family paid 4k for the oven exhaust. (He's on Section 8.) If the Feds read this, please start investigating what's IN the homes, not what's parked in the driveways.

Bassy the Haredi Slayer

They are poor by private income measures but not by government income. Most of their income from government (u & me) and not from working for B & H.

Satmar more than any group is expert in manipulating the system in any way convincible. They actually were able to get a Satmar educated public school district.

Too bad these Hungarian and Romanian pagans survived the holocaust.


ruthie-youre great you say it as is:).

Thinking Jew

Its all cash business, people. Theyre all filing chapter 11, while they are going to Pesach Hotels and buying shaitels for four grand apiece.


"it's a wash."

But that leaves it still as a ripoff of the taxpayers. The satmar community doesn't engage in many of the destructive behaviors of other poor communities. Therefore, the public money that was saved in dealing with those destructive behaviors should be doled out to the satmars for their unwillingness and inability to support themselves and their families.

A wash my ass.

The satmar community leaders oppressively enforce their strict behavioral codes over everyone in their community. Deviations are not permitted.

Who really knows what's going on behind the scenes in Kiryas Yoel?


yes, but kiryas joel has LOTS of money...so they're stealing and making all jews look bad. lying on every single form they fill out for social services....landlord gives a false rent receipt to be submitted...place of employment...false paycheck...they're good at what they do...AND they block vote...so that keeps them out of jail.
great scam.
THAT'S the difference.
granted, no crime....except sexual abuse....but they're lying and stealing...so there is crime....


“You also have no drug-treatment programs, no juvenile delinquency program, we’re not clogging the court system with criminal cases, you’re not running programs for AIDS or teen pregnancy,” he said. “I haven’t run the numbers, but I think it’s a wash.”

maybe they should

and the question is how do so many afford maids


They may be poor, but unlike East New York or South Bronx, Kiryas Joel has no stabbings, drug gangs, or prostitution. It's crime-free poverty. The folks in East LA could learn something from Kiryas Joel.


adam....i'm tryin' believe me, i'm tryin'


Ruthie, I've had dogs that could have been financial advisers if they'd had thumbs. Don't be hatin' on the dogs.


they make me ashamed to be jewish...
so does my friend in monsey.....who is trying to make 2 shidduchim for two of her kids....
she's so gay (i've had to push her away more than once) and loves to come to my house to smoke pot...
but OF COURSE that will not be mentioned while making believe her family is "perfect frum" perfect for shiduchim.
too bad her son is gay too...(not that he's gay...i love him...but that they're going to push him into a marriage.)
and her daughter is so stupid...makes a dog look smart...but she's very pretty.
and yes, this is the wealthy family that supports mrs. rubashkin here in monsey.
they are all full of bulls---
it's almost funny.
i'm beginning to believe that the conservative movement is where it's at.


Dear Adam,

The Kotsker Rebbe said "All that is thought should not be said, all that is said should not be written, all that is written should not be published, all that is published should not be read."

While I fear that the Satmar bashing will begin I am not sure it will be l'shem shmayim, or that it will have a positive result. I will say however that their 'welfare dependency' is not their main issue.

A Gitt Moed to all and hope to see every one at at the Bais Hamikdash in Jerusalem before the end of the chag.

Adam Neira

They sound like they are a fairly righteous community. The main issue is the welfare dependency. Not sure what the intention of the article is. They may have a low household income rating compared to other communities in America, but there is probably a lot of simple joy in their homes. Some people are really not that interested in materialism, status or narcissism.

I hope and pray that all the various Jewish sects will be united in peace in Jerusalem soon. Ditto the rest of humankind. Perhaps the head of the Satmars would like to come to Jerusalem for a visit soon. Might be some very important meetings coming up. We will see what unfolds in the days and weeks ahead...

Rush Limbaugh

here is the video of Joely who called into the Rush Limbaugh show:


Moreover, the person who called into Rush’s show, is probably on some assistance too, and if he is not, than his family are probably on. That goes to show that there is no heart or morality in KJ it is all for themselves.

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