Satmar Hatzaloh Member Gets 21 Traffic Tickets For Reckless Driving
A Kiryas Joel ambulance corps member faces charges of reckless driving for allegedly running a patrol officer and other motorists off the road in a frantic dash to get to a traffic accident where other ambulances were already on scene. Officers arrested Menachem Kramer and cited him for 21 violations of vehicle and traffic laws in the Feb. 18 incident. He is scheduled to appear in village court April 7.
Kiryas Joel ambulance driver cited for 21 traffic violations
By John Sullivan • Times Herald-Record
CHESTER — A Kiryas Joel ambulance corps member faces charges of reckless driving for allegedly running a patrol officer and other motorists off the road in a frantic dash to get to a traffic accident on Route 17.
Officers arrested Menachem Kramer and cited him for 21 violations of vehicle and traffic laws in the Feb. 18 incident. He is scheduled to appear in village court April 7.
According to a police report, Kramer's gray 1999 Chevrolet Tahoe sped head-on toward a Village of Chester patrol officer on Brookside Avenue, forcing the officer to quickly maneuver his vehicle out of the way.
Kramer had his lights and sirens on in an apparent attempt to get to a Route 17 rollover that already was in the process of being cleared by Chester rescue workers, according to the report.
The victims in that rollover also had been determined to be uninjured, and they had refused medical attention, the police report said.
It was unclear Tuesday who had made the call to Kiryas Joel Ambulance, but it is well known that EMS workers from the Hasidic village rush to calls from members of their religion, even if other first responders already are at the scene tending to the wounded.
According to the report, Kramer drove at excessive speeds, as well as down the center of Brookside Avenue, forcing cars in the turning lanes to quickly veer out of the way — some into the path of oncoming traffic.
The Hasidic EMS worker then went through the red light at the intersection of Brookside and Summerville Way, where he made a left to get to the Route 17 Exit 126 on-ramp, the report said.
The pursuing Village of Chester officer called ahead to State Police, who were at the scene of the rollover, and asked them to detain Kramer upon his arrival.
Kramer was given 15 different traffic tickets by Chester village police, as well as an additional six tickets from state police, whose troopers also cited Kramer for driving recklessly.
Kramer and his attorney declined comment. Calls to the Kiryas Joel Ambulance Corps, known as Hatzolah in its community, went unreturned.
[Hat Tip: SW.]
dont the police understand that a frum jews life is all that matters? who cares if this guy put hundreds of other people at risk? they were probably not jewish or satmar.
Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | March 21, 2011 at 01:54 PM
take the product of a first kuz marrying a first kuz, give him a car and a siren, and whaddya get?? ambulance drivers with single digit iq's.
Posted by: tooclose2detroit | March 21, 2011 at 01:58 PM
ah the satmerers they are the pits alot of them belong in the insane asylem not only because of their looks but the way they behave no law applies to them they can molest steal cheat you name it.
Posted by: jancsipista | March 21, 2011 at 02:05 PM
Satmar Hatzaloh Member Gets 21 Traffic Tickets For Recless Driving
Beware of reckless spellers.
Posted by: Office of the Chief Rabbi | March 21, 2011 at 02:25 PM
I would love to meet the misfits that are so virulent and hateful toward the frum community. Unfortunately, I have seen both sides. The people who are so venomous and hateful are generally people who didn't make it.
They missed out in both worlds, not in the frum world and not in the secular world. They earn less, they have fewer decent friends that are not of the same ilk which are disenfranchiesed and hateful. Loners. It is not the hasid and frum that need help. It is these others who always see the cup as half empty as it refers to the frum.
Posted by: Been there done that | March 21, 2011 at 02:28 PM
Wehave failed these hateful people when they were young and simply not succesful in yeshiva. We should have done much more. Because someone is not successful in school (Boys or Girls) they should still be part of us. Not everyone can excel at the same level. These venomous people towards the frum are now so because of their resentment to the times that they felt ostracized.
Please read every one of the comments and you will see one theme. They gloat and have great satisfaction when the frum do something wrong. They are even happier than when an arab terrorist is caught. It is an inner hate that they have because of their own distasteful experiences. I feel bad for them, living a life of pure hate.
Posted by: Been there done that | March 21, 2011 at 02:36 PM
Doesn't surprise me. I once was at the scene of an accident in Toronto, in the middle of a frum district. You could see/hear the approaching regular ambulance. A Hatzolah volunteer, driving an SUV equipped with ear-splitting sirens and multiple flashing lights, came careering down the wrong side of the road, mounted a sidewalk and drove along the sidewalk to avoid a traffic signal, and screeched to a halt at the scene of the accident. The real paramedica arived about fifteen seconds later. It was a disgusting exhibition, but I am sure the Hatzalah driver felt really big......
Posted by: Toronto | March 21, 2011 at 02:38 PM
Beentheredonethat
although the tone here is definitely balanced towards beanie bashing, as someone living inside the frum world, I do wonder how so many frum people wound up on the wrong side of the sanity stick-as it is in every community (for example, blacks will NEVER become educated if they continue to see appreciation of education as imitating whitey), if crazy behavior in the frum community isnt criticized from the outside, it cannot improve.
Posted by: tooclose2detroit | March 21, 2011 at 02:43 PM
Just for the gang of few who are delighted when they see even a tiny negative reporting on "frum crime" and who also think that life in the frum community is only what they read on FM,it will be fair for them to report how many of the thousands of frum people who got drunk on Purim were involved in car accidents,how many knifed each others,how many mugging and oh yes how many were raped and molested.
Come on and start digging and get your sources to report on the crimes and mischief that frum Jews did on Purim and lets see how big they were.
Posted by: Deremes | March 21, 2011 at 02:44 PM
Come on and start digging and get your sources to report on the crimes and mischief that frum Jews did on Purim and lets see how big they were.
Posted by: Deremes | March 21, 2011 at 02:44 PM
St. Patrick's Day is a very big celebration where I live and thousands and thousands of people got very drunk.
In your twisted, bigoted, little mind, you think there were hundreds of rapes, knifings, and related crimes. But there were not.
So does that make Catholicism correct?
Posted by: Shmarya | March 21, 2011 at 02:48 PM
been there done tha-you were never there and you never have done it, you cant be more wrong di shoite youre hate is more intense then the people you ostresize you fool farrikter golem
Posted by: jancsipista | March 21, 2011 at 03:00 PM
I want this bloke on my team for the upcoming Rebel Rabbi Rally. He sounds like he has great untapped driving potential that needs to be directed. He is obviously stuck in the wrong field. A bit like Michelangelo starting out as a fence painter.
Just reminding everyone of that white poster which is still nailed to a light pole in Tzfat...
"Don't miss the upcoming Rosh Hashanah Rabbinical Rally of 2011. It will be a rock and rollicking day of fun. Watch the Satmar Chief Rabbi battle the Chabadniks. Witness the death defying feats of the Bad Breslov Boys busting up the countryside. Marvel at the Super Skver Rally Team as they attempt a bridge jump a-la 'The Dukes of Hazard'. All ages welcome but we recommend you stay well away from the guard rails. Our special guest Rabbi Eliezer Berland will conduct midnight prayers for the night leg of the 24 hour rally. Please bring your tallit as we may run out of marshall's flags. Contact www.rebelrabbirally2011.com for more information."
Posted by: Adam Neira | March 21, 2011 at 03:00 PM
In your twisted, bigoted, little mind, you think there were hundreds of rapes, knifings, and related crimes. But there were not.
Shmarya
Shmarya-what the fuck, man?-I mean, everyone's starting to get along better these days-me, woolie, ah-pee----showin that its possible to disagree without goin apeshit on people-try it-its very cleansing.
Posted by: tooclose2detroit | March 21, 2011 at 03:09 PM
Regarding Hatzolah...I have an old school friend who I have known for thirty two years. He lives on the fringes of the ghetto (Not a pejorative term here) in a nice suburb with his Jewish, non-observant wife and their two children. His twelve year son was out playing a few months ago in the street and was knocked down by a car. Thank G-d it was only a minor incident as the speed of the car was neglible. Anyway some vigilant neighbours saw what happened and acted immediately. One Jewish lady called Hatzolah. One non-Jewish man called the Ambulance Service. The Hatzolah van came within about six minutes and the ambulance took about twenty minutes. Everything worked out fine. True story !
People having a dig at Hatzolah are like punters throwing balls at plates with Mother Theresa's picture on them at a carnival side show alley.
Posted by: Adam Neira | March 21, 2011 at 03:11 PM
tov shilo nivra
Posted by: your worst nightmare | March 21, 2011 at 03:12 PM
"St. Patrick's Day is a very big celebration where I live and thousands and thousands of people got very drunk.
In your twisted, bigoted, little mind, you think there were hundreds of rapes, knifings, and related crimes. But there were not.
So does that make Catholicism correct?"
I am making no comparison.
Were i live after every holiday New years,July4th etc there are reports of how many were killed. Also there are road blocks and they keep on mentioning on the radio how not to drive while drunk.
I haven't seen any road blocks on Purim
According to this blog that is bent to report on "frum crime" and how frum people are in general thief's were almost every family steals from the government( because of lack of education). Most frum Jews according to the posters on this blog are child molesters and if you would think they lie you would ban them.On and on how bad frum jews are.
So being how crime ridden they are and how they have no respect for the law it should be only normal that on Purim when it states that its a mitzvah to get drunk(without getting into that some say that you should not drink) that loads of people got into serious car accidents and some robbed and raped.
You still might get lucky and find dozens of crime. Don't get upset yet
Posted by: Deremes | March 21, 2011 at 03:18 PM
actually, a frum kid was arrested yesterday in tooclose2detroit for public intoxication-ok, he's got his story.
Posted by: tooclose2detroit | March 21, 2011 at 03:21 PM
Nobody calls the police in frumma neighborhoods, they only call Shomrim.
Crimes and drunk-related problems commmitted by frumma are not reported to police.
Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | March 21, 2011 at 03:40 PM
Frumma can't drive at the best of times. Give them an excuse to speed and mayhem such as this is sure to ensue.
Don't these clowns have to take an advanced driving course of some kind before they are allowed to drive an ambulance?
Posted by: David | March 21, 2011 at 04:10 PM
Do they get the same thrill from wreckless driving as they do from wearing pager / radio / cellphone to shul on Shabbos?
Posted by: David | March 21, 2011 at 04:17 PM
People having a dig at Hatzolah are like punters throwing balls at plates with Mother Theresa's picture on them at a carnival side show alley.
Emergency service responders are required to follow safe driving rules exactly because of a history of terrible accidents directly caused by overzealous reckless driving. In this state, emergency vehicles - even when using lights and sirens - must stop at intersections before proceeding if driving against the lights, because failure to do so has caused accidents to vehicles including vans transporting patients to the hospital!
Posted by: Neo-Conservaguy | March 21, 2011 at 04:47 PM
why is everybody in an uproar
here is a story of one lone manic hazthlu driver not sure this proves or says anything about any group just this one guy
Posted by: seymour | March 21, 2011 at 05:19 PM
Seymour, I agree with you, you occasionally see this type of wreckless driving by volunteer responders, both Fire Dept and EMS, all over. It's not just frumma First Aid guys.
Many small towns in the NY/NJ area are covered by volunteer Fire and First Aiders. There's always a case every now and then of a meshugener like this guy in every town.
The vast majority of Fire and First Aid volunteers do drive responsibly on their way to an emergency, but there's some nut job like this every now and then.
Everyone is not required to take a special driving course for this, unless you drive the ambulance or fire truck itself.
You don't have to be a frummer to act like this. This particular case is above and beyond the usual case of such irresponsible behavior you see in small towns.
If you're driving your own vehicle, like this guy was, you DO NOT have any special privileges to break any traffic laws. Your flashing emergency light only allows you to 'ask' other drivers to yield to you; they are not obligated to do so, and you are responsible for anything bad that happens from your driving.
I was a member of my town's volunteer EMS for many years. Safe driving while responding to a call, whether in your own car or if driving the ambulance, is always stressed by the First Aid Squad captain.
The subject of volunteer Fire and First AId guys being, well, a bit overimpressed with themselves, the radios, the uniforms, the wacky culture of their little group, is the subject of lots of humor, both in the real world and the frumma velt.
Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | March 21, 2011 at 06:28 PM
I don't want to be too close to Detroit the next time a Professional sports team wins a championship. What the heck...
In my city, people are filled with joy when we win, although it has only happened three times in my adult life, '82, '00, 06.
In Detroit, run for your life.
Posted by: itchiemayer | March 21, 2011 at 07:24 PM
I
ve noticed that Hatzoloh ambs in Manhattan are really ear-splitting. There ought to be a backlash!
Posted by: Dovy | March 21, 2011 at 07:26 PM
++...the next time a professional sports team wins a championship...in Detroit...++
Don't worry Itchie, ain't gonna happen.
St. Louis vs. NY in October? You betcha!
One box of Zabar's rugelach vs. whatever St. Louis has to offer?
http://www.zabars.com/zabars-fresh-baked-rugelach/911000T,default,pd.html?cgid=
Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | March 21, 2011 at 08:28 PM
B"H
Hatzolah is one of the Kiddush Hashems of the frum community.
I have seen first hand how selfless and giving these guys are.
Yes -- I agree sometimes the lights and sirens are a bit much...
Yes-- of course everyone would agree that if the accusations of some anti semitic cops in Monroe are true that the guy deserves to be punished...
But if CH"VS you need medical attention and you live in NYC or the Five Towns or any jewish community that has an active Hatzolah chapter -- you would do well to call them before 911.
911 response time is WAY long compared to Hatzolah.
The last time I called them it was less than 60 seconds until a first responder was at my doorstep. Do you undestand how quick less than 60 seconds is?
Do you know that the medics from the fire department or county would have taken 4-5 minutes on a good day and G-d only knows how long on a bad day.
When I called it was for a choking child.
The relief I felt as a parent when Hatzolah members started showing up within 60 seconds is incredble.
If you think its wrong for them to race to an accident scene or other emergency then you don't understand its because they want to SAVE A LIFE.
Maybe other people think its OK to let someone die while you wait for a light to change.
Posted by: Free Rubashkin! | March 21, 2011 at 08:43 PM
Doesn't surprise me. I once was at the scene of an accident in Toronto, in the middle of a frum district. You could see/hear the approaching regular ambulance. A Hatzolah volunteer, driving an SUV equipped with ear-splitting sirens and multiple flashing lights, came careering down the wrong side of the road, mounted a sidewalk and drove along the sidewalk to avoid a traffic signal, and screeched to a halt at the scene of the accident. The real paramedica arived about fifteen seconds later. It was a disgusting exhibition, but I am sure the Hatzalah driver felt really big......
Posted by: Toronto | March 21, 2011 at 02:38 PM
Toronto Hatzolah volunteers use only green flashing lights, and no sirens at all.
Whoever wrote this is making it up.
Sorry buddy, if you would have picked any other town, you would have been believed, but you had to pick the one town where no one uses sirens!
Posted by: unProfessor | March 21, 2011 at 09:07 PM
UnProfessor, many volunteer Fire Depts and Ambulance Squads only allow a flashing blue light, and no sirens.
However, many volunteers go overboard with outfitting their personal vehicles with sirens and red flashing lights, as part of their ego issues. Police don't usually enforce the rules about this as long as the volunteers don't abuse the driving laws on their way to a scene.
It would not surprise me if a volunteer in Toronto or anywhere in NY or NJ used unauthorized sirens on their way to an emergency call.
Free Rubahskin, do you think emergency responders should obey any laws or drive with any modicum of safety when going to a call, or should they be allowed to disregard anyone in their path, and just drive like lunatics going to the call? Volunteers in their private vehicles are NOT allowed to run red lights. If an accident occurred as a result, they would be 100% liable. Only those in the official ambulance, fire truck, or police car are allowed to go through red lights, and even then they must use caution when approaching the intersection, and are required to take special driver's training for this.
Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | March 21, 2011 at 09:28 PM
re: Toronto 2:38
"Whoever wrote this is making it up.
Sorry buddy, if you would have picked any other town, you would have been believed, but you had to pick the one town where no one uses sirens!"
Please don't call me a liar. Whatever they do now, this was about 3 yrs ago. The vehicle (a sort of mushroom-grey SUV, as I recall) had no markings, and quite likely had been fitted out by its owner. There was ear-splitting sirens, flashing brifghtlights, and truly lunatic driving. Accident was on the corner outside Kosher City, near Baycrest.
Posted by: Toronto | March 21, 2011 at 10:02 PM
I have seen it too many times: the kid who has chest pains in shul. 15 Hatzola members, 50 Hatzola of Flatbush wannabees, 45 Hockers, and another 35-50 people just plain bored converge on the kid. Four minutes later, a legit paramedic walks in. Three more minutes prying all of the people apart from the tightly wound Hock-crown that has formed around this kid that these 'cool' Hockers would never talk to as he walked by. But no; Hock, excitement, a 'story', and if youre really lucky, the yesheevish Lo Yutzlach kid with his camera will get your face as he gives all of his pictures to Vos Iz Neias (Now; Matzav.)
Agree?
Posted by: cynic | March 21, 2011 at 10:19 PM
Around Borough Park, SOME of the shomrim are a bit self important. I'm awfully glad they don't carry weapons.
Posted by: curiousity | March 21, 2011 at 10:34 PM
I dream of a Cardinals Yankees world series which last happened when I was a newborn. WSC - Perhaps you remember that one...Gibson - three complete game victories, does that ring a bell?
I'm not sure what St. Louis has to offer a sophisticated New Yorker like yourself...
We already gave you Yogi Berra and Elston Howard!
Posted by: itchiemayer | March 21, 2011 at 11:17 PM
cynic -
What are you talking about??? Today, Hatzolo has many paramedics.
In Brooklyn and NYC Hatzala members come to an emergency scene in under a 3rd the time it takes for the city ambulances. If someone stops breathing c”v it could be the difference of making it or not r”l.
Of course you have some wild drivers, but the Hatzolo Service is truly AMAZING!!! I know many members who are very well to do, some are medical doctors, business men etc. all they care about is to try to help save a life. (even in the middle of the night – after a very long day. Or during a Shabbat meal with their family…)
no need to pile on just because they are religious :)
Posted by: larry | March 22, 2011 at 12:28 AM
Statistically correct!! Most of these anti frum, anti hasids are dropouts, flunkies, missed life, they were at the airport when their boat finally arrived. You never made it so you blame the frummy guy. The goy who doesn't make it always blames the dirty jewboy. But what can you do, you are jewish. So you blame the frum guy. He is the cause to all your misery and problems. You are worse than the Gazans. However, just remember, good therapy can help you straighten out not to be such a loser and hater. You will stop hating and see the world a bit brighter by stopping to blame the frum world for your own inner emotional difficulties that you are struggling with. Good Luck.
Posted by: Bin Der, Dun Dat | March 22, 2011 at 12:40 AM
Under the NYS protocols EMS vehicles responding to the scene of emergency have to be driven " with a due regard ". Meaning not to exide posted speed limits, stoping on red light and stop signals and not to endengare live or property.
Regarding being jealous and envy of the orthodox success. Read statistics KJ is the POOREST city in USA with over 65% of the population receiving welfare benefits. I guess honesty and self honor does not exist among Jewish people. Geld took over. Sad. I am not orthodox, I feel sad about orthodox people who live honest lives and have to keep up with all this bullcrap being silent to voice their opinion or be quiet and afraid that their Ultra-orthodox rabbi will deem them jewhater
Posted by: Igor | March 22, 2011 at 02:04 AM
I say leave the first responding to the professionals who are not only qualified, but do it full time for a living. I understand haredim can get sir crazy and suffer from cabin fever cloistered in their little conventicle communities without mass media, or communication with the treife velt. But there are plenty of ways to get fresh air that don't involve threatening the life and health of others.
Posted by: A E ANDERSON | Christchurch, New Zealand | March 22, 2011 at 05:04 AM
I recently spoke to a medic who told me that whilst Hatzoloh have a fast response time, the service they provide is considerably inferior to that provided by properly trained paramedics in fully equipped ambulances. It takes 3 to 4 years fulltime study to degree standard to be a paramedic. I was in school with a kid who dropped out at 16 because he was somewhat dim and is now a member of Hatzola. The guy can barely make a sandwich!
Posted by: Barry | March 22, 2011 at 05:35 AM
Volunteers like Hatzoloh are EMT's, not paramedics. Only ONE person who responds to a Hatzoloh call needs to be an EMT. The rest can just be helpful schleppers and hockers who enjoy the thrill.
The city's paramedics, who are paid, are allowed to perform Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS). EMT's may only perform CPR and First Aid.
A Paramedic outranks an EMT.
Hatzoloh volunteers are not Paramedics. It's an important distinction. Paramedic training is much more complex, lengthy, and requires a secular education (gasp!!).
If a call involves difficulty breathing, loss of consciousness, or chest pain, then the city's paramedics will be called. Such emergencies are beyond the scope of volunteer EMT squads like Hatzoloh, although they can show up and help out.
I salute the efforts of volunteer First Aid Squads like Hatzoloh. I was a member of a similar such volunteer squad for 20 years. Yes, the stereotypes are largely true (many are dimwits, have ego and self-esteem issues, have phallic issues with the big walkie talkies, etc.), but for the most part they're nice helpful people.
Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | March 22, 2011 at 06:55 AM
While the efforts of 'enthusiastic amateurs' should be saluted, the limits of their training must be clear to everyone and they themselves should publicize that cases involves difficulty breathing, loss of consciousness, or chest pain require the services of paramedics. Nothing on the web site of my local Hatzoloh suggests that they recognize that the city paramedics services are more appropriate in serious cases and I doubt that the community they serve are aware that city paramedics may provide more appropriate service in life threatening cases then the businessmen larry refers to.
I fear that ego of some volunteers may delay them calling paramedics in such cases. The medic I spoke to was of the view that calling Hatzolah in many cases delays proper medical attention.
Posted by: Barry | March 22, 2011 at 08:09 AM
Barry, you are right.
Frumma paranoia about calling authorities will always get in the way of common sense. So will the egos of some Hatzoloh blowhards; they will never admit to limitations of what they are allowed to do to a patient.
Similarly, the frumma call Shomrim instead of the real police.
Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | March 22, 2011 at 08:26 AM
I don't want to be too close to Detroit the next time a Professional sports team wins a championship. What the heck...
In my city, people are filled with joy when we win, although it has only happened three times in my adult life, '82, '00, 06.
In Detroit, run for your life.
itchiemeyer
uhh, far be it from me to defend Destroyt, but, ya ever hear of the Red Wings?-they have won a number of Stanley Cups, and the 3 buildings that are still standing in Destroyt were not affected-so there!
Posted by: tooclose2detroit | March 22, 2011 at 08:46 AM
Well, hockey fans are cats of a different breed. Check out what happened when the Pistons won, and I believe all hell breaks loose when the Tigers win as well. And if you recall when the Lions last won....actually I don't remember when the Lions last won anything.
Posted by: itchiemayer | March 22, 2011 at 12:04 PM
"The city's paramedics, who are paid, are allowed to perform Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS). EMT's may only perform CPR and First Aid.
A Paramedic outranks an EMT.
Hatzoloh volunteers are not Paramedics. It's an important distinction. Paramedic training is much more complex, lengthy, and requires a secular education (gasp!!).
If a call involves difficulty breathing, loss of consciousness, or chest pain, then the city's paramedics will be called. Such emergencies are beyond the scope of volunteer EMT squads like Hatzoloh, although they can show up and help out.
I salute the efforts of volunteer First Aid Squads like Hatzoloh. I was a member of a similar such volunteer squad for 20 years. Yes, the stereotypes are largely true (many are dimwits, have ego and self-esteem issues, have phallic issues with the big walkie talkies, etc.), but for the most part they're nice helpful people.
Posted by: WoolSilkCotton |"
Woo I'm surprised at you.Either you became frum and that's why you write lies(remember frum people lie).Or you just have no clue.
Most Hatzolah members in general are EMT's.
Hatzolah by now has in every community many members who are paramedics.
Every "frum" Hatzolah member who is a paramedic goes through a lengthy complex training.Let it be a member from Flatbush,Lakewood,Boro Park,Williamsburg,Monsey,Kiryas Joel or anywhere.
It is said that to be a Paramedic in the "frum" Hatzoloh organization you must be financially stable because its a lengthy training where you must take lots of time off.And remember they and all volunteers.
If a call involves difficulty breathing, loss of consciousness, or chest pain,a Hatzolah paramedic shows up.Hatzolah response time is unbeatable.
So next time make a fast check before you write anything about volunteers who are not getting paid what they do.
Posted by: Deremes | March 22, 2011 at 12:12 PM
i do wish they wouldnt wear their walkie talkies in shul on shabbos-the constant crackling of the radio totally destroys my daydreams.
re the riots when the Pistons won-didnt really happen-the suckiness of Destroyt has nothing to do with big riots anymore-it has to do with the little things-like a very low school graduation rate, a very high out of wedlock birthrate, and a population that has allowed themselves to be deceived by libbliars like Jesse and Al that nothing that happens is their fault, all the cards are and always will be stacked against them, and they are therefore entitled to demand as much from the government as they can get-when people see nothing wrong with their behavior, they sure as hell aint gonna change it.
Posted by: tooclose2detroit | March 22, 2011 at 12:36 PM
WoolSilkCotton---
A) Hatzolah does have Paramedics. Here's from their website: http://hatzalah.org/organization.php "A civilian army, all volunteers, of over one thousand emergency medical technicians, paramedics, physician assistants and MDs are on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, throughout the Greater NY Metropolitan Area and areas of Upstate NY. All volunteer emergency care providers are also trained in search and rescue."
B) Although it is true that in New Jersey some volunteers who are not authorized use sirens, it is not true in Toronto, as both the Police and Hatzolah of Toronto won't tolerate it.
C) If the vehicle was unmarked with flashing lights and sirens in Toronto, chances are it was a police car. It was definitely not a Hatzolah members car.
What happened, did you get your application to Hatzolah denied???!!!
Would you like some salt with your foot?
Posted by: unProfessor | March 22, 2011 at 11:17 PM
Sorry, I meant to address B and C to "Toronto" not WoolSilkCotton.
I did, however, wish to address the last two lines to WoolSilkCotton.
Posted by: unProfessor | March 22, 2011 at 11:21 PM
I stand corrected about Hatzoloh and the fact that they do have paramedics. No other volunteer group in the NY/NJ area does.
They do blur the line, and some of their actions stretch (if not violate) the laws here in NJ, and that is what leads to confusion.
Hatzoloh declares each member and his car, whether EMT, Paramedic, or schlepper, to be an official 'unit', and so the car is allowed to have lights and sirens. That promotes the reckless driving and flaunting of every parking and motor vehicle law that you see from the frumma 'volunteers'. In NJ, a 'unit' must consist of EMT or paramedic with a trained authorized driver; that's 2 separate people. If you go to a call alone, that is considered your own private vehicle, unless it is registered otherwise. You cannot drive with red lights and sirens, like all the frumma do.
Please explain why a frummer EMT or schlepper helper needs to drive recklessly with his illegal lights and sirens to a call when the city's paramedics are already on the scene and the patient is stable?
Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | March 23, 2011 at 09:28 AM
Ive heard that in NJ,the authorities have a different approach to Hatzolah then in NY were as in NY they are more lenient.
"Please explain why a frummer EMT or schlepper helper needs to drive recklessly with his illegal lights and sirens to a call when the city's paramedics are already on the scene and the patient is stable?"
On most calls only frumma EMT and frumma peramadic show up.The frumma paramedic btw went through extensive training,sorry to disappoint you.
Unless you call a frumma EMT and a frumma paramedic a schlepper.
Very rarely it happens in NY that a city paramedic are on the scene before the frumma volunteers.
Posted by: Deremes | March 23, 2011 at 12:05 PM
Paramedics do NOT show up on most calls, whether Hatzoloh or any other service, because it's unnecessary. Unless there is a call for "difficulty breathing, chest pain, or loss of consciousness" you don't need a paramedic. That is a simple basic fact about emergency calls.
No service, not even Hatzoloh, has enough paramedics to go to each and every call.
A minimum of one EMT is required for every call. All other responders can be schleppers.
Lots of members of Hatzoloh and other volunteer groups are neither EMT's or paramedics. They only took CPR and First Aid; those are the ones I fondly refer to as the 'schleppers'. They carry the stretcher and bags.
Most of the responders to calls fit into the 'schlepper' category. I was one of them for twenty years.
Paramedics can be called to a scene directly by police if they discover an accident with serious injuries. The local volunteer squad may get there after the paramedics. Hatzoloh may arrive after a local frummer calls them. Since Hatzoloh volunteers are scattered about in frumma neighborhoods, there is often someone nearby around to get to a frumma location quickly, even if on foot.
Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | March 23, 2011 at 01:57 PM
My point was stretching the fact of the existence of "frumma" paramedics.
""Lots of members of Hatzoloh and other volunteer groups are neither EMT's or paramedics. They only took CPR and First Aid; those are the ones I fondly refer to as the 'schleppers'. They carry the stretcher and bags.
Most of the responders to calls fit into the 'schlepper' category. I was one of them for twenty years.""
Are you saying it as a fact and you know how Hatzolah operates?
As far as i know Hatzolah responders are all EMT's.Maybe other volunteer groups have schlepres and that's why you assume Hatzolah is the same.
"Hatzoloh may arrive after a local frummer calls them. Since Hatzoloh volunteers are scattered about in frumma neighborhoods, there is often someone nearby around to get to a frumma location quickly, even if on foot."
It doesn't really matter why and when Hatzolah response time is only 2- 3 minutes.
Also,Hatzolah beats all other groups in patient care.
Posted by: Deremes | March 23, 2011 at 02:31 PM
++existence of "frumma" paramedics++
There are a number of orthodox paramedics who work for EMS in NYC and other large cities in NJ. Some also volunteer for their neighborhood first aid squads, including Hatzoloh.
++As far as i know Hatzolah responders are all EMT's++
That is absolutely false.
++It doesn't really matter why and when Hatzolah response time is only 2- 3 minutes.++
If a volunteer arrives alone, without a full set of equipment as can only be found in a fully-equipped ambulance, it certainly does matter. Just showing up is not therapeutic in and of itself. Some guys have some equipment in their car, and that's good, but calling each individual's private car an 'ambulance' is misleading, and giving each volunteer the right to have a red flashing light and a siren is disingenuous and promotes abuse of the law.
++Hatzolah beats all other groups in patient care++
Wrong. My volunteer ambulance squad kicks your ambulance squad's tuches.
My point, Deremes, is that God should bless all the sincere and wonderful volunteers who put themselves out there on behalf of their fellow citizens, including frumma volunteers.
Please keep in mind though, that being such a volunteer is a privilege and carries responsiblity, including safe and level-headed driving when responding.
I am a fan of Hatzoloh and all other such volunteer groups, but I also know the shenanigans that go on with them.
Stay healthy, zeit gezunt, and send a donation to Hatzoloh regularly.
Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | March 23, 2011 at 03:21 PM
WoolSilkCotton-
You are so amazingly ignorant of how Hatzolah works, as well as of the pertinent laws.
How do you get off speaking with confidence and authority, as if you actually know what you're talking about, when really you're spouting absolute nonsense?!
Posted by: unProfessor | March 24, 2011 at 03:27 AM
My inlaws have personally been helped by Hatzolah. that aside, I think its very positive that haredim, and even satmars, are getting some training in some modern skills. I hope over time that chips away, bit by bit, at Satmars backwardness.
Posted by: notfrumnotme | March 24, 2011 at 08:51 AM
Hatzolah does seem to try hard. They may have one of the same problems that afflicts volunteer fire departments - the business attracts some people who get carried away. It's the job of volunteer emergency services to retrain or weed out those people.
If that's not being done, it's a management failure.
Posted by: John Nagle, Silicon Valley, CA | February 23, 2012 at 11:34 PM