Rerouting "Impurity"

Rabbi David Shmidel of the organization said he was concerned that descendants from the ancient Jewish priestly class – typically identified by the last name Cohen – would not be able to ride the tram because of a biblical prohibition against contact with graves. So his group built an above-ground structure around one burial cave, complete with strategically placed concrete slabs and large metal air pipes on both sides. According to his interpretation of Jewish law, the structure would direct the graves' impurity away from passengers.

 

Ynet has a good piece on Jerusalem's new light rail line which is due to be operational next month. It details objections to the project from Palestinians, and delays to completion of the project caused by engineering errors archeology digs – and haredi grave issues:

…Before the tracks were laid, builders encountered a religious dilemma: Two Jewish burial plots, believed to date back 2,000 years, were discovered along the tram route. Tampering with graves at construction sites often ignites the fury of ultra-Orthodox Jews, so the light rail's developers consulted Atra Kadisha, an ultra-Orthodox Jewish organization that cares for old graves.

Rabbi David Shmidel of the organization said he was concerned that descendants from the ancient Jewish priestly class – typically identified by the last name Cohen – would not be able to ride the tram because of a biblical prohibition against contact with graves.

So his group built an above-ground structure around one burial cave, complete with strategically placed concrete slabs and large metal air pipes on both sides. According to his interpretation of Jewish law, the structure would direct the graves' impurity away from passengers. It held up the project for nearly half a year, but light rail developers agreed to reroute the tracks around the structure.…

It would seem to me that under Jewish law, the light rail cars themselves are considered to be separate domains from the ground around them, and therefore no structure, concrete slabs and air pipes would be needed. If not, a simple fence would have created a separate domain for the burial plots and solved the problem.

Instead, haredim delayed the project unnecessarily and put even more financial strain on the downtown businesses that are suffering while the light rail line is being built.

Comments

[dlz]

Thank you for your learned decision, Rabbi Shmaryah. Tell me - how many years have you spent learning the halachos of Tumas Cohanim in depth? Do you have semicha, by any chance?

[Shmarya]

Thank you for your learned decision, Rabbi Shmaryah. Tell me - how many years have you spent learning the halachos of Tumas Cohanim in depth? Do you have semicha, by any chance?

Posted by: dlz | March 29, 2011 at 05:45 AM

I tell you what. Either explain why you believe I'm wrong or admit you don't have the background to judge.

[dlz]

Shmarya:
I admit I don't have the background to judge; I just don't think that you do either, WADR.

[Avi Rosenthal]

Similar potential problem with airplanes flying over cemeteries. What are the cars made of? AFAIK metal doesn't block tum'ah. At least the six classical metals named in Bamidbar 31:22 (gold, silver, copper, iron, tin, lead) don't block tum'ah. IMHO most plausible solution is to delcare the problem limited to those metals and if the cars are made of aluminum there is no problem.

[David]

According to his interpretation of Jewish law, the structure would direct the graves' impurity away from passengers

So if the impurity is directed away from passengers, where is it directed instead, and who else is it likely to affect?

[seymour]

am I the only one who thinks this is nuts cant the cohens wear special hazmat overcoats

[seymour]

the fence should be made of lead even superman could not see through that

[curiousity]

There's something " I can't see the forest for the trees-ish," about this in general, although I understand the pragmatic aspects, the care, importance and magnification of minutiae, as part of the daily rituals as they connect to spiritual life.

[curiousity]

David and Seymour, you're very amusing this morning. Thanks for a morning chuckle!

[effie]

Oh, no!!!1!!!1!!! Dead people cooties!!!!

[Jeff]

AFAIK metal doesn't block tum'ah. At least the six classical metals named in Bamidbar 31:22 (gold, silver, copper, iron, tin, lead) don't block tum'ah.

This is seriously a matter of discussion? There are some metals that will block tumah, and some that won't? I thought it was enough to merely erect a barrier, similar to an eruv. At the cemetery in Queens, the Lubavitchers put up those little pylons with police tape so cohanim can walk through. They used to make them wear a get-up like a sandwich board.

So, let me get this straight - plastic and particle board will block tumah - but lead won't? It's more powerful than kryptonite?

Frum people are stark, raving mad.

[jancsipista]

diz-youre a big big fool this whole kohenet nonsense of tuma is that nonsense you can talk or hypnotize youreself into beleiving anything i am a kohen but dont accept this tuma stuff ans i am religious2. you and youre ubermentch superiority comp-lex with this holier then thou attitude is poppycok

[dlz]

Jancsipista:
If you would like, I can offer you lessons in writing the English language.

[jancsipista]

diz-kish my tohas if you want i can offer you lessons in writing the yiddish language.

[effie]

jancsipista: Can you teach him logical thinking instead?

[jancsipista]

effie- i will try my best but he will have to also cooperate with me:)

[who knows]

There is no cohen living in the world today that is tahor and therefore is suitable for service in the temple. Thus any cohen can go anywhere and ride anything, they are all tomei. If machiah comes and service in the temple will be resumed, machiah will have to solve this cohen impurity problem, not rabbi Shmidel.

[A. Nuran]

Words fail me on the level of superstition and plain idiocy.

[A. Nuran]

Seriously, do tinfoil hats reflect tumah? Is that where they came from?

[Raphael Kaufman]

Hey! Don't knock tin foil hats! They really keep the CIA from beaming microwaves into your head.

[Catcher50]

This just shows the nonsense that the Haredim buy into. Diz' response just shows the logical fallacies and errors that they will make in trying to prove that they are right and others, with a greater degree of actual knowledge are wrong. BTW, this also goes for those wearing tin hats, etc. Same mindset.

Wait Engineering errors! Somehow I'd be much more afraid of, say, a bridge constructed without proper support than some imaginary something emanating from a 2000 year old grave.

[larry]

This discusion smells from deep rooted am haratzut on this subjuct. (no offense)

"i am a kohen but dont accept this tuma stuff ans i am religious2", "There is no cohen living in the world today that is tahor and therefore is suitable for service in the temple. Thus any cohen can go anywhere and ride anything, they are all tomei", "Similar potential problem with airplanes flying over cemeteries", "I thought it was enough to merely erect a barrier" etc etc.

The laws of Tumah & Tahara are very complicated and complex. there is an issue of being within 4 cubits (amot of a grave, this can be remedied by making a mechitza of at least 10 tefachim high around the grave.

There is another issue with walking over (ma'ahil) a grave. this cannot be remedied by a simple mechitza but is rather much more complicated to remedie halachicly, thus the time it took to work out the above problem.

By the way, just becose today all (most) kohanim are already tomey does not change the fact that is still inpermisble for a kohen to deliberitly come in contact with tumah

I'm not expert on this issue, but if you looked in the poskim you will find these laws to be complex.

Did you ever hear of "chukim" - halachot which cannot be explaind and retionalised? It only makes sence once you accept that the Torah was given to the jewish people at Har Sinai by Hashem and the laws containd it it are the His devine will. Some laws, eidut - mishpotim can be understood to some extent logicly, while there is another catatagory of laws - chukim which cannnot be explaind. Even Shlomo Hamelech stated that he can understand (almost) all the laws - exept the laws of parah aduma.

By the way, if you were to learn the halachot of constructing the Mizbeach in the Beit Hamikdash, and would be aware how the entire Har Habait was originaly constructed, you would get a little understanding how layers of "air" (empty space) seperating a grave from something, has the ability of stoping tumah from rising. - it's not diverted to somewhere else, rather it stops at the barrier and doesn't spread any further.... just some food for thought...

[Aleksandr Sigalov]

Did you ever hear of "chukim" - halachot which cannot be explaind and retionalised?

Well, some people having hard time mastering logic and reason...

Not too uncommon these days...

[David]

Couldn't they just send in the Ghostbusters to suck up all the impurity?

[Aleksandr Sigalov]

Couldn't they just send in the Ghostbusters to suck up all the impurity?

Great idea, David! You are absolutely right!

[Jeff]

it's not diverted to somewhere else, rather it stops at the barrier and doesn't spread any further.... just some food for thought...

Yes - well, it left me hungry.

[Jeff]

Seriously, do tinfoil hats reflect tumah?

Ha!

[Adam Neira]

The amount of complexity besetting the Holy City is remarkable. The Gordian Knot can be cut but the person who can do it must be supported. I'm happy to come to Jerusalem with my team and oversee the various deliberations required to facilitate peace and unfold the true potential of humankind. With certain conditions obviously. If the best factory in the world was broken how much would you pay the right engineer to fix it ?

“Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.”

“And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it."

- Zecharia 12

[Jeff]

With your "team"? Who is that - the SuperFriends?

Why in the world do you all put up with this man's insanity?

[Rochel]

I thought it was contact with a dead body, not only graves. For example, I thought that no one in the Chevra Kadisha could be a Kohen.

If riding a tram over a grave is problematic, then what is the situation in an airplane if the plane is transporting a corpse?

[A E ANDERSON]

I always gargle with Listerine after eating tuna.

Next week, I will stage a live negal vasser drinking contest with video on U-Tube. We'll be taking bets on how long I'll live after drinking an entire kvort of negel vaaser, and whether or not I'll get stomach or aesophogeal cancer.

Send your bets in to my Pay Pal account!

[A E ANDERSON]

I can't let this one go.... the DOM (dirty old man) in me wants to know what tuma one contracts, if any, by going down on a nekayvah. Yes, I know you're not allowed to touch the niddahs, but if you do chap a lick vos vet zayin? Err, make that zayn.

Does that mean you have to wash your mouth out with mikva water, yum? Or kill a bird and sprinkle its blood over an altar?

[Adam Neira]

To Jeff, I dare you to ask anyone that knows me well and who has known me for more than twenty years if they think I am insane. Yes I am unusual like my life story and what I am aware of but not insane. In fact if you met me without knowing who I was you would see me as nothing unusual. It really does depend on how I present myself, what situation I am in and what I am trying to achieve. We all have different roles to play. What is yours ? Again be careful who you cast dispersions on.

P.S. I like the "super friends" tag. I am incredibly blessed to have about fifteen good people around me. They are all extremely talented, ethical, creative, charming and intelligent. I would do almost anything for them as they would also do for me.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

What we are talking about here, is effectively a "force shield" against Tumah ! - Deflecting the unholy and unclean into other dementia ! :)

I was working on this invention for quite a while, but it looks like they got there first.

But, I hold the international patents for the TumahMeter - Which can measure Tumah Exposure Units (TEU) to within +/- 1 microTumah.

It is currently being used in Israel to measure how effective the Tumah shield is.

If the shield is about to fail, it automatically sets off a Tumah Alarm, giving ample time for all those concerned to evacuate the conveyance.

[Adam Neira]

To Who Knows,

Your comments re. Kohanim are interesting. Some people are able to assess others merit score, sincerity of tshuva and chance of redemption better than others. The current battle in the Jewish world is how the command and control structure should work. i.e. Who should give orders and who should receive them. On other spiritual fronts the issue is about job roles, boundaries of responsibilities and remuneration. The role of the Kohen Gadol, the Priests etc. is being negotiated and determined as we speak. All of the pieces of the divine jigsaw puzzle are falling into place.

P.S. Do you think that Moshiach should appoint the Sanhedrin or the Sanhedrin should appoint Moshiach ?

[BeenThereDoneThat]

For those of you wandering what a TEU is.

1 TEU = Enough Tumah to render a Cohen as unclean (Tumah) or "RCT".

Tumah does not go away, it just accumulates, makeing higher and higher TEU background levels as time goes on. But it does follow the Inverse-square law for field intensity (Refer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law)

Current background TEU levels around the world are:
Over the sea (pick any general place): approx 300 µTumah.

Over Central Australia: ~200 µTumah.

Over Israel: ~20,000 µTumah.

Mount Everest (Summit): ~50 µTumah.

Mount Everest General: ~10,000,000 µTumah (at the moment).

New York City: ~5000 µTumah.

San Francisco: ~50,000 µTumah. (Due to earthquakes - esp early last century)

Kosher Mikvah: ~50 µTumah. (absorbed by Mikvah Kedushah)

Unkosher Mikvah: ~50,000,000-100,000000 µTumah extra per day (depends on visits per day).

Thats about all I have measured until now - more to come.

[David]

New York City: ~5000 µTumah.

New York City is relatively low because Ghostbusters cleaned it up in 1984.

[Adam Neira]

Who you gonna call ?

Tumahbusters !

[Adam Neira]

To BeenThereDoneThat,

Thank you for introducing me to a new scientific discpline. I like to learn something new every day. I think the Scientologists sell a similar machine to the "Tumah Geigercounter - Whizz Bang 2011 Model" (Patent Pending for BeenThereDoneThat Enterprises) for auditing purposes.

[Justin Time]

Adam, does your cup of trembling come with a side plate of doom? I hope so. Beverages are not enough - you need to serve nibbles as well.

[Adam Neira]

To Justin Time,

The cup is sometimes good to hold, like a glass of champagne. At other times it is held with shaky hands. The prophetic metaphor is apt. Like a golden source of sustenance and vigour the cup is a precious thing that needs to be held by steady hands.