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December 07, 2010

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DBSesq

And yet we sell an Arab the land at Shmittah. Ironic aint it?

Nigritude Ultramarine

"But lately, rabbis are afraid to rule on the basis of what is written because they are afraid of the reaction from the media and the government."

Why would a 'rabbi' be afraid? I guess deep down they recognize these halachos related to not selling or renting to goyim do not reflect the Divine Will. Or perhaps they are more interested in preserving their positions of power and כבוד, hence their reticence to take on an unpopular position.

notsofrumjew

this is so wrong. " fears of intermarriage and blasphemy", then dont walk outside your house. Show me where in the torah is says thou shall not rent your house to an arab. Does this apply to all non jews or just arabs i wonder.

Aleksandr Sigalov

Show me where in the torah is says thou shall not rent your house to an arab.
It does not. These people are completely out of their mind.

They are very sick, and need serious treatment. I don't think there is much to talk about.

mpidiot

There seems to be a contradiction in the reports.

JTA

Top haredi leader Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv also signed.

YNET

The organizers have yet to obtain the signatures of senior haredi rabbis

Oder yo oder nein

Shmarya

There seems to be a contradiction in the reports.

I think Ha'aretz reported RYSE signed.

mpidiot


fm:
I think Ha'aretz reported RYSE signed

mpIDIOT:

I went to Haaretz's english website and
searched for Eliyashiv. Nothing pops up for today.

I did the same for Eliyahu and three or four stories pop up today about the not renting issue.

A correpondesnt may have mistaken the names.

Shmarya

A correpondesnt may have mistaken the names.

Could be. But it is as least as likely that he signed.

mpidiot


FM
But it is as least as likely that he signed.

I disagree. Rav Eliyashiv is very circunspect when it comes to signing things especiallly when it involves relations with non-Jews.
In the past year, the rav told every one who would ask that Netanyahu should do everyting that Obama asked of him. The rav was extremely critical of Rav Yosef when the latter lambasted the Palestinian leadership.

Proof is found above in the Ynet story
Take note of who did not add his name to the statement issued by top haredi Rbaai five years ago.

"The organizers have yet to obtain the signatures of senior haredi rabbis but enclosed a statement issued by leading rabbis five years ago. Rabbis Chaim Kanievsky, Nissim Karelitz, and Aharon Leib Shteinman said at the time that land or homes in Israel cannot be sold to gentiles."

YbM

3 dozs and 50, there is a significant difference. what is the list of at least the first 3 dozs that signed? are they mostly dati leumi? how many chareidim was there?

ruthie

this is just so sad...so wrong

this confuses me greatly. i WANT to have respect for our rabbis.
at this point, i have more respect for my non jewish friends...

mpidiot


Shmarya: Not all Rabbis are the same. You owe RYSE an apology.

Haaretz:

Leading Haredi rabbi refuses to endorse letter forbidding the rental of homes to Arabs
"What if there was a similar call in Berlin against renting properties to Jews?" asks Rabbi Steinman.
By Yair Ettinger
Tags: Israel news ultra-Orthodox
Although the authors of the rabbinical edict forbidding the sale or rental of homes to non-Jews managed to collect the signatures of 39 leading rabbis around the country, they failed to enlist a leading Haredi rabbi, chair of the Degel Hatorah Council of Sages, Aaron Leib Steinman.

Steinman refused an audience with Safed Chief Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu this week, when the latter arrived to pray at the former's courtyard in an attempt to convince the Bnei Brak spiritual leader to sign the letter instructing Jews not to rent or sell property to Arabs or any other non-Jews.

Rabbi Aaron Leib Steinman

Photo by: Moti Milrod

A source that was present at the scene said, "As soon as Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu introduced himself, Rabbi Steinman, who knew why he was being approached, said 'I won't sign,' and immediately left the room." Steinman, who is 96 years old, then discussed the right-wing initiative with members of his inner circle.

One of Steinman's confidants related the rabbi's words to Haaretz: "They are making a fierce nationalistic statement. We will not irritate others, that is not the Haredi way. There are things that should not be done; what if there would be a similar call in Berlin against renting properties to Jews? Where is the public conscience? What will this do to Jews around the world? We must act responsibly."

Some Zionist rabbis also refused to sign the edict. Ramat Gan Chief Rabbi and revered Zionist Torah adjudicator Yaakov Ariel said, "The former Chief Rabbi of Israel, Yitzhak HaLevi Herzog, already adjudicated that, despite the Biblical prohibition 'Thou shalt not give them respite,' in a democratic state you cannot discriminate between citizens. What's more, it will cause discrimination against Jews in other countries."

Maale Gilboa Yeshiva head Rabbi Yehuda Gilad said in response to the rabbis' letter on Tuesday, "This ruling is a serious distortion of the Torah, and contradicts basic human morality."

Gilad continued, "We can only imagine what would be [Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu's] reaction if he would hear of a case outside of Israel where the authorities forbade the rental of homes to Jews."

Shmarya

You owe RYSE an apology.

First of all, Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv has done many nasty things to Jews – like Rabbi Slifkin, for example – and he has NEVER apologized.

Secondly, Rabbi Shteinman doesn't speak for Rabbi Elyahiv.

Thirdly,if you think the JTA made an error, take it up with the JTA – unless you have unequivocal proof, in which case I would make the correction.

Lastly. ask yourself why you rush in to defend Rabbi Elyashiv, but you do not and have not rushed in to defend his victims.

mpidiot


I am not definding RYSE. The Rav does not need me ro defend him. I am defending good journalism in the same manner you tried to do when you criticized NYT for deleting sections of its Mumbai story.

Shmarya

I am not definding RYSE. The Rav does not need me ro defend him. I am defending good journalism in the same manner you tried to do when you criticized NYT for deleting sections of its Mumbai story.

Posted by: mpidiot | December 08, 2010 at 09:47 AM

So ask the JTA to check to see if they made an error and, if so, ask them to correct it.

But until you have solid proof, I have to allow the JTA report to stand – with your comments here as a counterbalance of sorts.

corn popper

From Matzav.com

Maran Rav Shteinman Refuses to Endorse Letter Forbidding the Rental of Homes to Arabs
Wednesday December 8, 2010 11:15 AM

Although the authors of the edict forbidding the sale or rental of homes to non-Jews managed to collect the signatures of 39 rabbis around the country, they failed to enlist Maran Rav Aharon Leib Shteinman, rosh yeshiva of Yeshiva Orchos Torah and chair of the Degel Hatorah Council of Rabbonim.

Rav Shteinman refused an audience with Tzefas Chief Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu this week, when the latter arrived to convince the Bnei Brak gadol to sign the letter instructing Jews not to rent or sell property to Arabs or any other non-Jews.

A source that was present at the scene said, “As soon as Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu introduced himself, Rav Shteinman, who knew why he was being approached, said ‘I won’t sign,’ and immediately left the room.” Rav Steinman, who is 96 years old, then discussed the initiative with members of his inner circle.

One of Rav Shteinman’s confidants related the gadol’s words: “They are making a fierce nationalistic statement. We will not irritate others; that is not the charedi way. There are things that should not be done; what if there would be a similar call in Berlin against renting properties to Jews? Where is the public conscience? What will this do to Jews around the world? We must act responsibly.”

Some Zionist rabbis also refused to sign the edict. Ramat Gan Chief Rabbi Yaakov Ariel said, “The former Chief Rabbi of Israel, Yitzchak HaLevi Herzog, already adjudicated that, despite the Biblical prohibition ‘Thou shalt not give them respite,’ in a democratic state you cannot discriminate between citizens. What’s more, it will cause discrimination against Jews in other countries.”

Maale Gilboa Yeshiva head Rabbi Yehuda Gilad said in response to the rabbis’ letter on Tuesday, “This ruling is a serious distortion of the Torah, and contradicts basic human morality.”

Gilad continued, “We can only imagine what would be [Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu's] reaction if he would hear of a case outside of Israel where the authorities forbade the rental of homes to Jews.”

SumDum Phool

Well, at least they didn't call for a death penalty on Jews who sell to arabs... like the PA does for arabs who sell to Jews...

mpidiot

Shmarya

You want proof here is proof
Today's haaretz under Yaad Vashem story

The leading rabbi of Israel's non-Hasidic Orthodox sector, Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, also denounced the religious ruling. "I've said for some time that there are rabbis who must have their pens taken away from them," Elyashiv remarked.

"It's interesting that these same Zionist rabbis support symbolically selling their land to gentiles during the shmita year," he added referring to the seven-year cycle when agricultural fields in Israel must lie fallow.

Note The Rav has a sense of huumor:

Shmarya

Note the "rav" has a long history of not telling the truth. Also not that the "rav" sat on Zionist rabbinical courts for many years until someone smarter and more Zionist than him made him look like a fool – the same kind of fool he would later look like in the Slifkin affair, the Indian hair wig affair and so many others.

That said, I'll correct the JTA's error, which I think is more than the "rav" has ever or will ever do for his own mistakes and misbehavior.

TzVi

For one Salman their are a million (even more) Ahmeds and Mohammeds who do the opposite and scream "Slaughter the Jews".
Anyway you heretics have to realize that its not Rabbis making rules. It is Halacha brought down in the Rambam and in the Torah.
Since you love the Ahmeds soo much, you can live together with them. Take them to your neighborhoods. (anyway if you continue you will most likely be close neighbors with the mohammeds in the next world (depths of Gehinnom).

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