Make No Mistake – Israelis Have Always Been Racist

In its early days, when Israel's character was taking shape, it determined that the white race was superior. When the people who would eventually become "Mizrahim" arrived and were brought here from North Africa, it wasn't suggested or made possible for them to take part in the government, the land, the systems of power and the media. Very quickly they became citizens, but second-class citizens subject to humiliation and inferior conditions. They were excluded from public life and official cultural life, living with the knowledge and experience of inferiority. And separation: They were put in separate housing projects and separate neighborhoods.

Make no mistake - Israelis have always been racist
The racist, extreme right wing gets in and fills the vacuum left by the negligent social left.
By Merav Michaeli • Ha’aretz

Among those shocked at the "spread of racism" are people who claim that the residents of the neighborhoods protesting against foreigners are not racist but merely afraid, merely in distress. Indeed, the chief activist in the neighborhood of Kiryat Shalom, Eli Mizrahi, said, "There is no hatred .... We know they are suffering .... I don't understand: Why is it necessary to make it harder for us, in a place with a weak population? ... Why pile weakness on weakness?"

It's true; the neighborhoods are weak, with weak residents who have a hard time making a living and getting ahead. One can just read the reports on increasing poverty, declining wages and growing nutritional insecurity to know how tangible the distress is; a struggle for survival. Israel neglected these people and communities, and in recent years is only increasing their number.

But the distress does not contradict the racism, it goes hand in hand with it. In its early days, when Israel's character was taking shape, it determined that the white race was superior. When the people who would eventually become "Mizrahim" arrived and were brought here from North Africa, it wasn't suggested or made possible for them to take part in the government, the land, the systems of power and the media. Very quickly they became citizens, but second-class citizens subject to humiliation and inferior conditions. They were excluded from public life and official cultural life, living with the knowledge and experience of inferiority. And separation: They were put in separate housing projects and separate neighborhoods.

People who grow up with this experience of inferiority, when racism is directed at them, internalize that racism. When a landlord, the master, determines that white is good and black is inferior, you internalize that standard and hate yourself because you are not white. The standard of white superiority and the racism that comes with it become part of you, even when you are its victim.

And then you project your racism onward, to anyone who is darker and more inferior than you. Add to that the existential distress and the inflaming of baser instincts by types like extreme right-wing activist Itamar Ben-Gvir, who don't miss an opportunity to gather new believers, and you get the recent racist demonstrations.

After all, this is always how it works: The racist, extreme right wing gets in and fills the vacuum left by the negligent social left. But make no mistake - the hatred and racism were always here; now they are emerging more loudly.

The white upper classes sublimate their racism: They employ the people they perceive as inferior; they have the money to pay them (not much ) to clean for them and take care of them. Once it was the Arabs and the Mizrahim, now it's the "infiltrators" and the foreigners (in fact, upper-class women are the employers, the men don't even have any contact with them ).

And so this class does just what the white and racist prime minister is doing, inciting against the very things that step on the weakest points of the weak: "a concrete threat to the Jewish and democratic character of the country," and a "wave threatening Israeli workplaces". And immediately thereafter, warning Israelis "not to take the law into their own hands and not to hurt the illegal infiltrators" so he can wash his hands of the matter: They are the racists, those baboons, not him.

That's the way this class is, part of which belongs to the good old "left," disappointed with the peace process and party to the building of the separation fence, the roads for Jews only and acceptance committees to communities. And in the same breath, they frame the others with the charge of racism, those others from the Hatikva neighborhood and Bat Yam.

 

Comments

[uncle sam]

Another crap article from the Palestinian paper published in Hebrew, Haaretz. The claim that Israel is racist is the common denominator of the Muslims, Western intelligencia, and Haaretz. Of course, it's a little hard to be a white racist in a country where the majority is non white, but rest assured, the liberal anti Israeli press will find a way. And of course any actual racism displayed by Muslims either isn't really there or has been caused by the Jooozzze!

[Riverdaleapikorus]

This woman is Kastner's granddaughter(yes, that Kastner) and has a lot of hate for her fellow Israelis who have treated her family(and grandfather ) like shit. She is right about that, but extends her self- loathing to the entire Israeli population..too bad..

[Isa]

True
In the beginning, Sephardim were treated as nixxers

Shas was created because Rav Yosef was excluded because he didn't know Yiddish (one of many reasons)

[Gloom]

To Riverdale-etc.
What Merav Michaeli writes has nothing to do with her ancestry - and it is NOT true that Kastner was treated badly. In the liberal circles he was nearly deified. The guy who blew him away was considered a nut. Michaeli's problem is simple: She is a dumb blonde and writes stupidity. The only reason she is allowed to write for Haaretz is because of her "fame" and because she takes maudlin leftist stands. And her ultimate flaw is that she is not even blonde; she should at least have the decency to bleach her hair.

[Shmarya]

…She is a dumb blonde and writes stupidity. The only reason she is allowed to write for Haaretz is because of her "fame" and because she takes maudlin leftist stands. And her ultimate flaw is that she is not even blonde; she should at least have the decency to bleach her hair.

Posted by: Gloom | December 29, 2010 at 08:20 AM

You may not like her but she is very far from dumb. I interviewed her and spoke to her for probably 30 minutes or so after the interview. She's bright. One of her great talents – one that I lack – is that she doesn't generally respond to personal attacks or political positions she opposes by acting like, well, you.

[Garnel Ironheart]

Curious question:
Let's say it was the Sephardim who had initiated modern Zionism and come in large numbers to Israel first, building the infrastructure of the state only to watch hordes of displaced Ashkenazim wash up on the beach after the Holocaust.
Does anyone think Israel would look exactly the same, except with the Sephardim living in the nice neighbourhoods and the Ashkenazim surviving at the edge of society?
It's a dark world and everyone getting along is a nice but unattainable option.

[jay]

Garnel--- I generally don't use obscenity on this site but your last statement proved one thing: you're a jackass. "Hordes... wash up on the beach?"

The Ashkenazim airlifted the Sephardim and Mizrachim into Israel in order to build up manpower. After the Holocaust Ben Gurion was at a loss - how would he build up the population of the state of Israel?

His people prioritized and evaluated the "material" they wanted to import from other countries, They ranked Yemenite Jews at the top of the list and Moroccan Jews were considered the least desirable.

They were still importing Holocaust survivors at the time from Europe, and prioritized their "desirability" above ALL the Sephardim/Mizrachim. This was not out of compassion for the Survivors. It was because they were white Europeans.

The Oriental Jews, as they were called, were kept years longer in DP camps in Israel the ANY Ashkenazim. When homes were built en masse, they were built first for Europeans. When land was distributed to start kibbutzim- the best vacant land was allocated to Europeans.

The stereotypes they created about Sephardim were typical of those any society builds about it's underclass: "They're dirty, lazy, shifty,stupid, they can't be educated, they steal, they lie"

The most vile bigoted stereotype created about Sephardim, which some Ashkenazim hold to this day was: "You can't trust them. If we go to war, they'll turn against us and fight with the Arabs"

I wish I could tell you how many times I heard that hateful statement during the 70s and 80s but I would rather not remember.

In the early years of Israel they called Moroccan Jews "dirty kushim" Now the Ethiopian Jews have that bigoted appellation imposed upon them.

No, I don't believe that Israel is an inherently racist society. However I believe that they European culture in Israel, the secular Zionist culture that Ben Gurion and his ilk deliberately inculcated, included the European disdain of non-European cultures, and darker complexions.

[BronxJew]

In my experience upper-class white Israelis are open and tolerant people. They are very good people, in fact. Unfortunately, however, there is definite racism in the Charedi world. In the minds of too many in that milieu, it is like so: gentile world - secular jewish world - traditional jewish world - Torah-true jewish world - people who dress like us jewish world - Anshei Shlomeinu (people of our own clan). They see their own immediate group as being the elite of humanity. It is arrogance of the highest degree. But I don't find such a mindset among today's white upper-class Israelis. In fact, many of them are limosine liberals who bend over backwards to prove to everyone how tolerant they are.

[Dave]

Jay, very well said.
Sadly, we Jews have so well adapted to the cultures around us that we have picked up the bad as well as the good.

[Althelion]

Bigotry is bigotry.

The rabbis have relied on an external threat to keep their communities together, and under their control, for so long they don't know how to exist otherwise. So, in Israel, the Jewish country, in the absence of the boogie-man goy external threat, the rabbis, those great gedolim, endorse the boogie-ization of dark-skinned Jews.

"Maybe if they just wash themselves better their darkness will come off."

It's a sick and sad situation.

[Garnel Ironheart]

Jay, you clearly missed my point.
I'm not anti-Sephardi. Heck, a good proportion of me is Sephardi. I was not trying to minimize the Ashkenazic crimes against Sephardim during the early years of the state or the ongoing discrimination they face now. I personally can't stand such hatred and wish strongly it would go away.
Did you ever see the Harry Belafonte movie "White Man's Burden"? Great little film about a possibly alternative history in which the US was colonized and founded by Africans who brought over white Europeans as their slave class. The idea was for white folks to see how things were for blacks by making it personal. Did a good job.
I'm just asking: lets say instead of Ben Gurion, Ibn Gurion had become the first leader of Israel. Would Israel look any different today except that the Sephardim would be in the nice houses and the Ashkenazim would be living in the poor areas?

[YbM]

And of course any actual racism displayed by Muslims either isn't really there or has been caused by the Jooozzze!

not really uncle sam. they are indeed horrible, but aren't we supposed to be better?
aren't we claiming to be a breed apart?

[Menachem Mendel lll]

Every word is true.

We don't have to board a plane to experience this kind of Jewish Ahavas Yisrooel first hand.

Take a peek into at friendly neighborhood area Ashkenazi Chabadnik or Agudat Israel yiddele.

How marry end up marrying a "dirty piece of African monkey shit Sephardi."

Sure, "mistakes" happen and a few khasenes make it thorough the cracks (hot pieces of ass or money never hurts) but crunch the numbers and they want "them" in their families as much they want tuberculosis.

Moshiach Uber Alles.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Apologies to: Stories

She was black as the night
Moishy was whiter than white
Danger, danger when you taste brown spices
Moishy fell in love overnight

Nothing bad, it was beshert
A nice Jewish girl, not a flirt
When he took her home
To meet his mama and tatty
Moishy knew just where he stood

Chorus:
Moishy Moishy Moishy, Moishy
Moishy Moishy Moish-I
Moishy Moishy Moishy
Moishy Moishy you're gonna cry

[Instrumental Interlude]

There he stood in the night
Knowing what's halachically right
He took her home to meet his mama and tatty
Man, he had a terrible fright

Moishy nearly caused a scene
Wishin' it was a dream
Ain't no diff'rence if you're black or white
Yidden, you know what I mean

Chorus

[Instrumental Interlude]

Chorus 2x

[jay]

Garnel: yes, it would look very different. Sephardim didn't create denominations as did the Ashkenazim. They always maintained a culture and belief that a Jew is a Jew no matter what. The exception being the Syrian Jews because of their stringencies about conversion. No, I never heard wealthy elite Sefardim and Mizrahim denigrate Ashkenazim in such consistent and racist terms.

[Yoel Mechanic]

>aren't we claiming to be a breed apart?

The actual claim is not one of a "breed apart". The claim is that as a nation, we had a national revolution (a large group experience), were taken from another nation, received the Torah, and remember it and follow it. Not surprisingly, the Torah doesn't have a modern concept of biological race. That is the reason to avoid racism. Not that we are a "breed" apart or "better" in some essential biological way.

[Malcolm]

What a surprise to find out that Israeli Jews are like other people and have prejudices. It seems that the accusations of 'racism' are driven by disappointment that Israel is not Olam Ha-ba. Actually I am disappointed too, but realize it is an unrealistic expectation.

Try to remember, however, that this is not the racism of 1950s Mississippi, with lynchings and denial of voting rights. It is more similar to the elitism of Florentine Italians, with its indifference to those other Italians who migrated north from Sicily and Calabria looking for work and a better way of life.

Racism is the wrong word to describe the problem. If using the r word has some shock value, and pushes Israel in the direction of resolving some of its real social problems, then perhaps it is ok to use the word. But my guess is that such wild accusations of racism are not helpful, and just serve to support the antisemitic claims of ignoramuses that Israelis are no different than the Nazis.

[Menachem Mendel lll]

"...and the Lord made the Ashkenazi Jew in his image."

"...and the Ashkenazis were given dominion over all others sub species of Jews."

[Red Tulips]

I am sorry, but this column is a load of total rubbish. So Israelis are racist? Maybe so - but no more so than any other country. Look at the history of every other country on the planet - and especially the neighboring countries on the planet. It's pathetic to look at this context and then proclaim Israel racist.

Yes, there is room for improvement for Israel. But what other country on the planet airlifted tens of thousands of Africans to live in their country in the way Israel did? The answer is none. And yes, Ethiopians in Israel have their problems (which is understandable, as they went from a tribal society to a modern country), but after 20+ years in Israel, Ethiopians are integrating faster than they would have anywhere else. What other country on the planet regularly integrates such disparate people as Israel has?

Merav Michaeli has an understandable grudge against the state after what happened to her grandpa, but she is absolutely wrong to write her article, and frankly, Shamyra, you are also dead wrong to post this rubbish article without at least some background commentary of your own.

[Red Tulips]

One more thing. Merav Michaeli is herself a racist to define Ashkenazi as "white." Yes, many are pale skinned. But many also are not. I have relatives who are very dark skinned Ashkenazim. Reading the crude way Ms. Michaeli categories people is itself an exercise in reading a racist screed dressed up as an "anti-racist" screed.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Ashkenazic Jews are "white." They are members of the Caucasian race, and are as "white" as any other European ethnicity.

For that matter, Sephardic Jews are "white," too.

[Shmarya]

what other country on the planet airlifted tens of thousands of Africans to live in their country in the way Israel did? The answer is none. And yes, Ethiopians in Israel have their problems (which is understandable, as they went from a tribal society to a modern country), but after 20+ years in Israel, Ethiopians are integrating faster than they would have anywhere else.

Um, any objective look at the facts shows that Israel did not do Operation Moses willingly. I know this first hand.

I think its time for you and other knee jerk defenders to realize how stupid you look, and how really foolish you are.

Fix the problems. Don't waste your time trying to spin them away.

[nobody]

Uhh, polls show that between 44-55% of Israelis want the illegal african migrants deported. And are we going to pretend that ALL of these are mizrahim who once felt discrimination!? Racism is not the root of this issue.

[Red Tulips]

Um, any objective look at the facts shows that Israel did not do Operation Moses willingly. I know this first hand.

I think its time for you and other knee jerk defenders to realize how stupid you look, and how really foolish you are.

Fix the problems. Don't waste your time trying to spin them away.

Firstly - so what if Israel did not do Operation Moses willingly? Did I say Israel did not suffer from racism? No. But the point is that Israel not only did Operation Moses (and Operation Solomon - and many other such rescue operations), but Israel also has worked to integrate the Ethiopians and other so-called "dark skinned" immigrants within its midst, and within a generation, there has been an astonishing transformation within Ethiopian-Israeli society.

And moreover, what of Operation Solomon? I know Ethiopian Jews firsthand who speak of the way that Israel went out of their way for them.

Yes, there are problems in Israeli society. But to exaggerate them and then proclaim Israel a "racist" society is beyond the pale.

Shmarya/Scott, I am not impressed with you. You proclaim yourself someone who simply shines a light on the muck of Jewish/Israeli society, but this article goes way beyond that, into being a polemic. You have a long history of being an advocate for the Jewish people, and the state of Israel, and yet you post this polemic tripe without rebuke?

For shame.

[JC]

We are all *racist* i.e. the hatred of a group of people by virtue of their belonging to the group. I am proud and am not ashamed of my hatred of haredim and chabad. Call me a *racist* or any other label if you must but thats the way it is. If you don't like it - kiss my ass!

Same goes for the fucken Arabs, if *they* wish Israel's destruction then I have no need for them and as far as I am concerned they can hop over the border to their kind.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Red Tulips | December 29, 2010 at 12:26 PM

You obviously don't know your history.

Operation Solomon was brokered and partly run by the US.

As for the rest of what you write, Merav has more than paid her dues. And the points she makes are largely factually correct.

Stop trying to cover up Israel's problems and instead devote some time to trying to fix them.

[Red Tulips]

You obviously don't know your history.

Operation Solomon was brokered and partly run by the US.

As for the rest of what you write, Merav has more than paid her dues. And the points she makes are largely factually correct.

Stop trying to cover up Israel's problems and instead devote some time to trying to fix them.

What is your point, Shmarya? Operation Solomon was partly run by the US, so that negates the good that Israel did? Do you know how outrageous you are to even type that? Do you know how you sound like a polemicist by writing that?

You are going out of your way to support the ludicrous and offensive notion that Israel is per se a "racist" country.

As I have written - and you fail to refute - of course Israel suffers from a degree of racism. So does every country on earth. Just look at the problems in the Arab world, where the word for African is a synonym for the word "slave." Or look to the USA and its own history of Jim Crow laws and slavery. Israel has none of this to account for. To proclaim Israel is especially racist is just disgusting.

I want to add a final point. Merav Michaeli never connected the question about the African immigrants to a so-called racism epidemic within Israel. I would be thrilled if the 7,000 or so Ethiopian Jews left in Ethiopia emigrated to Israel immediately. But Israel simply lacks the space and ability to potentially house the millions of non-Jewish African immigrants who suffer from civil wars and genocide. It just doesn't. That doesn't mean such immigrants should be thrown right back into the middle of a civil war, but it does present Israel with significant moral dilemmas. To crudely equate this morale dilemma with "racism" is frankly a polemic act I would normally think is beneath you.

As I typed - for shame.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Red Tulips | December 29, 2010 at 12:44 PM

Please.

Israel did it because the US made it happen. Go learn before you write your ridiculous comments.

Israel did good, but it's good that was US-initiated, which is my point.

As for the rest of what you write, your argument for refusing to help refugees was used by England, Switzerland, and other countries during the Holocaust to keep Jews out.

Process that.

[Red Tulips]

Please.

Israel did it because the US made it happen. Go learn before you write your ridiculous comments.

Israel did good, but it's good that was US-initiated, which is my point.

As for the rest of what you write, your argument for refusing to help refugees was used by England, Switzerland, and other countries during the Holocaust to keep Jews out.

Process that.

Firstly, I would like proof that Israel is especially racist, which is the point of Merav Michaeli. Feel free to provide evidence that Israel is somehow more racist than the Arab world, Europe, the rest of Asia, or even the USA.

Secondly, your comment about the USA shows your own ignorance. Israel did not just do Operation Solomon because of the USA. That shows an astonishing cynacism against the country you used to admire, for which I am simply astounded. Israel rented every bus in Ethiopia for months on end, and pretended to take the Ethiopian Jews to the zoo, while actually training on the sly for the big day. Is this the act of a country taht simply "went along" with the USA? And yes, Ethiopian Israelis have problems integrating (as would anyone who moves from a tribal country to a modern economy), but the younger generation who grew up in Israel is proving to be a real success.

Care to explain how this proves Israel is so especially "racist"?

Thirdly, I know all about the treatment of the Mizrahim in the past. Of course you leave out the fact that Israel airlifted many of these Mizrahim to safety. And of course you leave out that especially the Yemenites were often tribal upon moving to Israel as well - and it is not so easy to uproot a tribal community and then have these same people easily integrated into a modern society. You also forget that the Mizrahim were often very religious at the time they moved to an extremely secular state, which Israel was in the 1950s. It was an extreme culture clash in many senses.

Israel made mistakes, some deliberate mistakes, and some not, in integrating the Mizrahim. Yet the proof of the non-racism is in the pudding, and the pudding is that there now are so many mixed marriages between the Mizrahim and Ashkenazim (including in my own family), and the Mizrahi generation that grew up in Israel has been able to reach the upper echelons of Israeli society.

Fourthly, your last comment about the same reasoning being used in the Holocaust is absurd. Are you going to compare the population and landmass of the USA and Europe, even in the 1940s, to that of Israel? Really? Again, this shows you have descended from being a pro-Israel advocate into being simply a polemicist.

Any pro-Israel advocate recognizes where Israel has gone wrong and seeks to fix it. But such a pro-Israel advocate does not then broadly denounce the entire society as "bad" and "racist."

I said it again, and I will say it again.

For shame.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Red Tulips | December 29, 2010 at 01:09 PM

My word. You certainly have a reading comprehension issue. Either that, or you are disingenuous.

Merav does not say Israel is more racist than, say, Saudi Arabia. So that entire line of argument you pose is ridiculous.

As for absorption of "tribal" immigrant, Israel made the same "mistakes" over and over and over again, from 1950 until today.

I guess in your mind, it is okay to screw up so many times, for so long. You still get a free pass as long as you're Jewish and Israeli.

Lastly, you write this outright lie:Fourthly, your last comment about the same reasoning being used in the Holocaust is absurd. Are you going to compare the population and landmass of the USA and Europe, even in the 1940s, to that of Israel? Really? Again, this shows you have descended from being a pro-Israel advocate into being simply a polemicist.What I actually wrote is as follows:As for the rest of what you write, your argument for refusing to help refugees was used by England, Switzerland, and other countries during the Holocaust to keep Jews out.England is not a large country. Neither is Switzerland. Both used the same argument you used, except they used it against Jews during the Holocaust.

And you can't compare Europe's landmass to Israel unless you want to compare the landmass of the entire Middle east to Europe.

Put more simply. much of Europe was FIGHTING England. Switzerland was NEUTRAL. You cannot combine their landmasses or include the landmass of Nazi-controlled Europe with them.

If you knew history, if you actually thought before your wrote, and if you were not so painfully dull, you would know all of that without me telling you.

But you don't.

"For shame."

[Red Tulips]

Merav does not say Israel is more racist than, say, Saudi Arabia. So that entire line of argument you pose is ridiculous.

As for absorption of "tribal" immigrant, Israel made the same "mistakes" over and over and over again, from 1950 until today.

I guess in your mind, it is okay to screw up so many times, for so long. You still get a free pass as long as you're Jewish and Israeli.

Israel deserves to be lambasted for its problems in the initial absorption of immigrants from the Mideast and Ethiopia. Of course, there were also problems in the absorption of Russian immigrants - so is that "racist"? There are problems in the Gush Katiff refugees who still lack a permanent home. Is that "racist"? Many North American immigrants with "first world" skills find it very hard to integrate into Israeli society. Is this "racist"? This all shows a bottom line that Israel has a problem in figuring out how to integrate immigrants of all stripes. It is a problem. Some degree of it is due to prejudice, but much of it is not. Yet you would then say this is proof that Israel is "racist"?!

Moreover, Israel also has had many successes. And as you fail to acknowledge, Israel (a) has gone out of its way to help Ethiopians reach the USA; (b) the second generation of Mizrahim and Ethiopians (i.e., those that grew up in Israel) have become integrated. We see it in the intermarriage between Ashkenazim/Mizrahim, and we see it in the business and political success of the Mizrahim in particular, but also a new generation of Ethiopian Israelis. There is no permanent bar that keeps Mizrahim and Ethiopians as an underclass.

Then you wrote this:

England is not a large country. Neither is Switzerland. Both used the same argument you used, except they used it against Jews during the Holocaust.

And you can't compare Europe's landmass to Israel unless you want to compare the landmass of the entire Middle east to Europe.

Put more simply. much of Europe was FIGHTING England. Switzerland was NEUTRAL. You cannot combine their landmasses or include the landmass of Nazi-controlled Europe with them.

If you knew history, if you actually thought before your wrote, and if you were not so painfully dull, you would know all of that without me telling you.

But you don't.

Firstly, the UK has a population that is roughly ten times that of Israel, and is not considered the one "refuge" for Christians around the world. Moreover, the UK covered about a quarter of the world's land mass during WWII, if you included all of the colonies. Secondly, the USA has a population that is about fifty times that of Israel's, and a land mass that is continental in size. Sorry, but try again.

As I have said, you have gone from advocate to polemicist.

For shame.

[Red Tulips]

Yikes - I meant to type that Israel has gone out of its way to help Ethiopian Jews reach Israel, not the USA!

But the rest stands.

[Red Tulips]

One more thing.

Shmarya, using your logic, I question why you are not in favor of the so-called "right of return." After all, the Palestinian population is suffering in concentration camps in Lebanon, and still are a permanent underclass across the Mideast. So why not come to the first world Israel? Based upon your logic, you apparently believe concerns about Israel remaining a Jewish state should be considered secondary.

So do you support a "right of return"? And if not, why not?

[jay]

Israel has not worked to help the Ethiopians integrate into society while maintaining their distinctive, ancient and venerable culture. From rejections due to questions about the "authenticiy" of their jewish practice, to segregation in schools to job discrimination- even to being forced off of buses- they are being treated similarly to Afro-Americans in the 50s. Not the same- similarly. Israel destroyed 5,000 pints of donated Ethiopian Jewish blood during the Lebanon war. No one tested the blood to see if it was tainted in any way. It was summarily destroyed because it came from the Ethiopian Jews.

[Shmarya]

You're an idiot. You don't know history. You can't make a logical argument. And you have trouble telling the truth.

2nd generation Ethiopians in Israel are not fully integrated. They have an extremely difficult time getting work. Even college educated Ethiopians often work as security guards because that is the only work they can get. There is rampant discrimination that the Israeli media reports on regularly.

But you, an anonymous moron blog commenter, disregards all that.

Further, you Palestinian analogy is itself moronic.

Refugees fleeing persecution and genocide in Africa are not seeking to "return" to their rightful homeland in Israel. They just want a safe place to be until the genocide stops, so they can live and not die.

You simply do not realize how foolish you are.

[Red Tulips]

Jay,

It is taken for granted that many within the rabbinate question the religious status of Ethiopian Jews. Yet the society as a whole has accepted Ethiopians as Jewish.

As far as being forced off buses - I read of one case of it on this blog. I don't see evidence of an epidemic of this behavior. On case is one case too many, but it is not enough to call Israel a "racist" country. As far as job discrimination - there is no evidence of a systemic problem, and in fact Ethiopian Jews are equal before the law, and can always petition the court if there is job discrimination. The same could not be said of African Americans in the USA in the 1950s.

As far as the blood donations - this policy has since ceased, and in any case, was enacted far before there was a mass immigration of Ethiopian Jews, and affected far more than simply Ethiopians. Here is a statement from the Magen David Adom:

Magen David Adom spokesman Yeruham Mendola responded to the claims by saying: "The guidelines set by the Ministry of Health determines that anyone who was born, or who lived for over a year since 1977 in central Africa, southeast Asia or the Caribbean islands, or has spent over six months in Britain, or was in France, Ireland or Portugal for over 10 years — can choose not to donate blood, or donate blood, which is then marked, and know that it will not be used for transfusions."

This policy was wrong and stupid, and a result of some bureaucrat no doubt. But it has since ceased, and affected far more than Ethiopians (such as British and French Jews), even when in effect. It is not proof of an endemic racism within Israel.

[Red Tulips]

You're an idiot. You don't know history. You can't make a logical argument. And you have trouble telling the truth.

2nd generation Ethiopians in Israel are not fully integrated. They have an extremely difficult time getting work. Even college educated Ethiopians often work as security guards because that is the only work they can get. There is rampant discrimination that the Israeli media reports on regularly.

But you, an anonymous moron blog commenter, disregards all that.

Further, you Palestinian analogy is itself moronic.

Refugees fleeing persecution and genocide in Africa are not seeking to "return" to their rightful homeland in Israel. They just want a safe place to be until the genocide stops, so they can live and not die.

You simply do not realize how foolish you are.

Wow, you really like to just insult me. This obviously shows that you know when you are in the wrong.

Feel free to explain where in anything I wrote I stated that there is no racism in Israel. Feel free to show me where I said that Ethiopians don't suffer from job discrimination. I have read the reports myself. Yet at the same time, I know plenty of Ethiopians who have reached positions of prestige, because while there is some discrimination, I don't see evidence that it is systemic (and it is certainly not legal discrimination). I would add that I see no evidence that discrimination in Israel is worse than in the USA. I have an African American Jewish convert of a friend who lived in Israel for nine years, and told me that she felt it was more open and free a society than the one right in the USA. She felt more "equal" as a citizen over there than over here.

As far as Africans go - in fact, tens of millions of Africans are suffering under horrific genocide. Ideally, there would be some form of aid to these countries (by all Western states, not just Israel), to prevent the genocide. Yet, short of that, no, Israel alone is simply ill-equipped to absorb possibly tens of millions of refugees. You think that once the war is over, these refugees will just up and go home? These wars have in many instances been going on for decades and could end up going on for decades more. What is to happen until the wars end? You don't even slightly see the real concern as to how this could affect Israel's status as a Jewish state?

All I can say is WOW.

[Red Tulips]

My problem with you, Shmayra, is your absolute failure to contextualize Israel's problems.

Of course Israel suffers from internal Jew-on-Jew discrimination, most particularly found in the rabbinate and its curious definition of who is a Jew. Yet does such anecdotal evidence of discrimination mean an entire society is racist? You mention there are Ethiopian Israelis who are college educated and cannot find work. I have friends who have law degrees and live in the USA and cannot find work. Unless you actually show some form of systemtic problem (not anecdotal in nature) then I find your conclusions to be bizarre and offensive.

[Shmarya]

You really are an idiot.

If you look at the stats, you'll see that many Ethiopian lawyers are working as – security guards. The same holds true for most other professions.

As far as Africans go - in fact, tens of millions of Africans are suffering under horrific genocide. Ideally, there would be some form of aid to these countries (by all Western states, not just Israel), to prevent the genocide. Yet, short of that, no, Israel alone is simply ill-equipped to absorb possibly tens of millions of refugees. You think that once the war is over, these refugees will just up and go home? These wars have in many instances been going on for decades and could end up going on for decades more. What is to happen until the wars end? You don't even slightly see the real concern as to how this could affect Israel's status as a Jewish state?

Yup. That's just want God wants. Make sure Israeli is ethnically "pure" and allow thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of non-Jews to be murdered as a result. [/end sarcasm]

There's just one little problem: nowhere in the Torah can you find any support for that contention.

In fact, the opposite is true, and God links helping refugees to our foundation as a nation and his gift to us of the land of Israel.

Process that.

[Shmarya]

I have friends who have law degrees and live in the USA and cannot find work. Unless you actually show some form of systemtic problem (not anecdotal in nature) then I find your conclusions to be bizarre and offensive.

The "systemic" problem has already been shown.

[Red Tulips]

You really are an idiot.

If you look at the stats, you'll see that many Ethiopian lawyers are working as – security guards. The same holds true for most other professions.

Please feel free to actually show statistics that present a systemtic problem of Ethiopian Israelis (second generation - raised in Israel) working as security guards at a rate that surpasses the general population of Israelis. I have not seen such studies.

Yup. That's just want God wants. Make sure Israeli is ethnically "pure" and allow thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of non-Jews to be murdered as a result. [/end sarcasm]

There's just one little problem: nowhere in the Torah can you find any support for that contention.

In fact, the opposite is true, and God links helping refugees to our foundation as a nation and his gift to us of the land of Israel.

Process that.

Shmarya, we are not speaking of thousands or tens of thousands. There are millions - tens of millions - of Africans who are suffering under genocide. Israel should do what it can and aid the countries to prevent this genocide, but it is a small country, smaller than the size of the State of New Jersey, and if it is understood that there will be zero immigration enforcement and all Africans can travel to Israel and remain there indefinitely, there is a real concern that this sets a precedent.

As far as the ones in Israel now - no, I don't advocate housing discrimination or any form of discrimination for them. But it all creates a real dilemma as to what to do. I am aware that sending them back means they go to a war torn atrocity. But allowing them to stay essentially tells all the tens of millions of Africans that Israel has open borders for them. There are no easy answers, and you just brush this aside? Israel is too small and in no position to be a safe haven for the world, whether you want to admit this or not. I don't know what the solution is to be, and I frankly understand both sides in this tricky situation, but it is pathetic to label those who are concerned about Israel's future as a Jewish state as simply "racist" and part and parcel with a country that is overall "racist."

Just pathetic.

[Shmarya]

You're a moron.

1. The stats were publicized in the Israeli media. Apparently your feeble brain missed them. Check with organizations like Tedessa (sp) the Ethiopian legal advocacy group. They have the stats.

2. Millions of refugees are N-O-T trying to get to Israel. Past that, the issue should be SAVING LIVES. But in your narrow version of morality, the issue is Jewish ethnic purity in the Jewish national home – which, BTW, was started by Jews who, by and large, would have both disagreed with you and found you to be quite dull.

Now run along.

[Red Tulips]

Shmarya,

You are either lying or are misinformed.

I went to Tebeka's website, and saw not one article which showed a study that proved systemic discrimination against second generation Ethiopian Israelis.

http://www.tebeka.org.il

You are the one claiming a study exists, so you are the one who has the burden of linking it.

As far as Africans who suffer from genocide - right now they don't go to Israel because they cannot go there legally. And what if that changes? You don't believe that a genocide victim is not going to do whatever it takes to escape genocide, including travelling to Israel? Jews travelled as far away as Shanghai to escape the Holocaust.

And thus I think it should be the USA and Western Europe, not Israel, which absorbs these refugees. The USA has 300 million+ citizens, and has more of the capability of absorbing those who are fleeing persecution.

I am not saying those who are in Israel now should be sent back - I frankly don't know what should be done. But it is absurd to claim those who are worried about the future of Israel, should it absorb possibly tens of millions of African refugees, are racists, and endemic of a "racist society."

[Shmarya]

Why don't you ask them, moron.

[Red Tulips]

One more comment for good measure.

I live in the USA, not Israel. Thus, when I say that I would like the USA and not Israel to absorb these refugees, I am not saying it from afar. I actually think it is the USA, and not Israel, who should bear this burden, and I would be happy to aid in their integration in the USA, should they desire to move here.

Process that.

[Red Tulips]

Why don't you ask them, moron.

Posted by: Shmarya | December 29, 2010 at 04:00 PM

I am smiling now, because I see how you clearly know you are wrong, because you have devolved into name calling.

I not only have "asked them," I am friends with a number of Darfurian and Southern Sudanese refugees in the USA. And yes, they specifically told me that other Darfurian and Southern Sudanese would love to move to Israel if they could.

I personally think they (Sudanese/Darfurians/Eritreans/sufferers of genocide/etc) should move to the USA, where I live.

Process that.

[Shmarya]

Please.

They can't get to America and you know it. They WALK to Israel.

But the US does take refugees from Sudan and Eritrea and should do more, as should other countries – none of which absolves Israel from doing its part.

You're a dull little man who, incidentally, ignored this:That's just want God wants. Make sure Israeli is ethnically "pure" and allow thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of non-Jews to be murdered as a result. [/end sarcasm]

There's just one little problem: nowhere in the Torah can you find any support for that contention.

In fact, the opposite is true, and God links helping refugees to our foundation as a nation and his gift to us of the land of Israel.You have no religious answer to what I wrote, meaning your position is not based on anything Jewish.

Wrap your little mind around that.

[Menachem Mendel lll]

Please don't blame me just because I'm of "pure" Ashkenazi stock.

[Shmarya]

I am smiling now, because I see how you clearly know you are wrong, because you have devolved into name calling.

Idiot.

I was clearly referring to Tebeka, whose website contains NONE of the studies or reports in question.

Tebeka has those reports, however. You could ask for them – if your tiny little mind truly wants to learn.

As for your African refugee friends, lovely ANECDOTE.

I have friends, too, who are refugees from genocide and violence in Africa. Many of then say very nice things about Israel.

But none of them want to leave the US to live there, except for a couple of fundamentalist Christians who would like to spend time in the Holy Land.

Now toddle off, little shoteh.

[Red Tulips]

Please.

They can't get to America and you know it. They WALK to Israel.

But the US does take refugees from Sudan and Eritrea and should do more, as should other countries – none of which absolves Israel from doing its part.

You're a dull little man who, incidentally, ignored this:

That's just want God wants. Make sure Israeli is ethnically "pure" and allow thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of non-Jews to be murdered as a result. [/end sarcasm]

There's just one little problem: nowhere in the Torah can you find any support for that contention.

In fact, the opposite is true, and God links helping refugees to our foundation as a nation and his gift to us of the land of Israel.

You have no religious answer to what I wrote, meaning your position is not based on anything Jewish.

Wrap your little mind around that.

Posted by: Shmarya | December 29, 2010 at 04:13 PM

Firstly, you live in some sort of a fog if you think victims of genocide cannot get to the USA. There are newfangled concoctions known as "planes" which can somehow "fly" to the USA. I personally know genocide survivors from the Sudan who did exactly that.

Secondly, you did not respond to tons of what I wrote, including the fact that Israel's help to Ethiopians and Mizrahim (airlifting both, and the success of the second generation at integration) are good examples of Israel not being a racist country.

Thirdly, Israel has no policy whatsoever towards African immigrants. If it stated "We are willing to accept XXX number of African (non-Jewish) victims of genocide a year," then maybe you would have a case. We can discuss how many a year Israel can accept without frankly changing the state from Jewish to African.

The truth is that Israel should be working with all countries to resolve this issue. There should be a coordinated effort so that if someone wants to escape genocide, they have a place to go. But the 'international bodies' that normally coordinate such efforts (such as the UN) are broken beyond repair, so I say "good luck with that."

In the meantime, there is a no man's land as to what should happen, as the world community is NOT working together, and most countries actually are CLOSING their doors to these refugees, which number potentially in the tens of millions.

I don't know what should be done in this no man's land, and it is offensive to say that those who are concerned that in this vaccum, completely opening Israel's doors to all refugees who want to come in, might potentially harm Israel's status as a Jewish state.

Yes, Israel has a duty to help where it can, but not at the burden of possibly destroying the one country on earth that is a safe haven to Jews. Would you deny that Israel simply cannot accept the burden of tens of millions of refugees?

The smart solution that neither the "right" nor the "left" is willing to discuss is for all the democracies to work together on this issue. But sadly, fat chance of that.

Sorry - I must be "racist" in what I wrote.

*rolls eyes*

[Red Tulips]

Idiot.

I was clearly referring to Tebeka, whose website contains NONE of the studies or reports in question.

Tebeka has those reports, however. You could ask for them – if your tiny little mind truly wants to learn.

As for your African refugee friends, lovely ANECDOTE.

I have friends, too, who are refugees from genocide and violence in Africa. Many of then say very nice things about Israel.

But none of them want to leave the US to live there, except for a couple of fundamentalist Christians who would like to spend time in the Holy Land.

Now toddle off, little shoteh.

Posted by: Shmarya | December 29, 2010 at 04:19 PM

Firstly, I have been civil to you the whole time, while you engage in name calling. I am stunned that someone who reached your level of prestige would resort to such a base and degraded status of a name caller.

Secondly, if these studies exist and you have read them, then clearly you should be able to link to them. Even if I did request the studies, I would not get them for days on end, by which time this thread will be long since buried. So if you have the studies, feel free to show where they exist.

Thirdly, as far as the African friends - they were not speaking of Africans living in the USA. They were speaking of Africans living in Africa, under the threat of genocide. I think it's obvious that someone living under the threat of genocide will try to go anywhere they can to escape it. Heck, many have even ended up in Egypt, where they are brutalized!

You are looking for every excuse in the book to label Israel as racist, and that is disgusting.

[Shmarya]

You're a fool.

Israel doesn't have a "success" of 2nd generation Ethiopian and Mizrachi aliyah. It has some successes in that demographic but many more failures.

And the planes you speak about cost money and require these refugees to get to a safe country where they can be boarded. The nearest safe country would be – shudder – Israel.

Now run along.

[Red Tulips]

You're a fool.

Israel doesn't have a "success" of 2nd generation Ethiopian and Mizrachi aliyah. It has some successes in that demographic but many more failures.

And the planes you speak about cost money and require these refugees to get to a safe country where they can be boarded. The nearest safe country would be – shudder – Israel.

Now run along.

Posted by: Shmarya | December 29, 2010 at 04:36 PM

If Israel has mostly failures in the integration of second generation Ethiopians, then feel free to provide evidence of this systemtic problem. You have yet to do so.

And the nearest airfield from the Sudan is not Israel, it is Egypt. Cairo is a safe airport.

Regardless, I would be fine with Israel coordinating with the USA and other democracies for their absorption of African immigrants. But sadly, clearly that is not what is done.

[Shmarya]

Firstly, I have been civil to you the whole time, while you engage in name calling. I am stunned that someone who reached your level of prestige would resort to such a base and degraded status of a name caller.

You most certainly have not been civil.

Secondly, if these studies exist and you have read them, then clearly you should be able to link to them.

M-O-R-O-N. As I told you, they've been quoted and cited in the Israeli press and Tebka has access to them. If you want to see them, ask Tebka.

Now answer my very simple challenge, which I'm now stating for the THIRD time:That's just want God wants. Make sure Israeli is ethnically "pure" and allow thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of non-Jews to be murdered as a result. [/end sarcasm]

There's just one little problem: nowhere in the Torah can you find any support for that contention.

In fact, the opposite is true, and God links helping refugees to our foundation as a nation and his gift to us of the land of Israel.Do you have a Torah source for your racist ideas?

[Shmarya]

If Israel has mostly failures in the integration of second generation Ethiopians, then feel free to provide evidence of this systemtic problem. You have yet to do so.

The Israeli press is FULL of reports that SUPPORT my claim. Your laziness in not looking at those reports doesn't give you the right to claim they don't exist. You can search this site and see many of them, if you want.

And the nearest airfield from the Sudan is not Israel, it is Egypt. Cairo is a safe airport.

Note that I wrote "nearest SAFE country."

[Red tulips]

You have provided links to individual incidents, not comprehensive studies. Anyway, Cairo is a safe airport, as the millions of tourists can testify to.

I don't understand why you feel the need to quote Torah. It clearly is not incumbent upon Jews or anyone to take on more of a burden than can be handled. The Sudanese crisis involves millions of Africans and requires a coordinated response amongst the nations. Israel cannot handle it alone. And no one - not you, nor I, nor Bibi, nor anyone, has a good response as to what Israel should do in lieu of an international response. And that is hardly indicative of Israel's "racist" character.

[Shmarya]

You have provided links to individual incidents, not comprehensive studies

Idiot. And you have provided no links to prove these articles and studies do not exist.

Better than that, I told you how you can easily search for them.

But you are too obstinate to do it.

Anyway, Cairo is a safe airport, as the millions of tourists can testify to.

Idiot. I wrote "countries," and you cite an airport.

What of the hundreds of Sudanese refugees who have been tortured and even murdered in Egypt?

Are you so wholly dense that you do not know about that?

Or are you simply to callous to care?

I don't understand why you feel the need to quote Torah.

I was merely pointing out you were not, because you cannot.

Israel cannot handle it alone.

No one is suggesting Israel should handle it alone.

What we are suggesting is that Israel should do its part – something Israel from day one has refused to do.

[Red Tulips]

Shmarya,

I am amazed that you feel the need to keep insulting me again and again. It really proves that you have sunk, intellectually.

Regardless, I never said there are not stories about discrimination against Ethiopians. Is that not clear? I just have not heard of a study that showed particular and systemic discrimination on such a level that I would level Israel a "racist society." There is discrimination in the USA against African Americans and others, yet I would not label the USA a "racist society." Feel free to show any sort of study that provides evidence that Israel is so bad that it should be labelled a "racist state." You have claimed such studies exist. I have searched the internet and found none. Since YOU have claimed otherwise, it is YOUR DUTY to provide the link to a STUDY, not an individual STORY.

As far as the African refugees - again, you spoke of the nearest place to board a plane. I see no evidence that the Cairo Airport is somehow an unsafe place to board a plane, regardless of the treatment of Sudanese in the country, which yes, I am aware of. It should be noted that it is Egypt anyway which has the vast majority of Sudanese immigrants, and from that perspective, the resolution of this refugee issue should involve Egypt in a prominent role. Yet I don't care if the staging area is in Israel. That would be fine with me. But there is no international cooperation on this matter because the international community is broken, probably beyond repair. And so yes, that does leave Israel in an unfortunate position.

And finally, you end with this statement that Israel is not doing its part to help Sudanese refugees. Firstly, IDF officers have famously fought with Egyptian soldiers for the safe passage of Sudanese refugees into Israel. Israel also has enrolled Sudanese refugees into Israeli schools and provided them, until now, an imperfect safe haven. (admittedly imperfect) You should know of this story. So to say that Israel refuses to do its part misses the fact that Israel has in fact acted to help Sudanese refugees. Perhaps not enough, but it has fought in armed battles against soldiers who have sought to prevent Sudanese passage into Israel, so I would say that is a major something.

What should be done now? Without an international response to what is an international problem, there are no easy answers. I never said that Israel should send the refugees back to the Sudan, but I understand why some in the government have called for that (bad) solution. But you decide to label Israel a "racist" country for struggling with this problem, perhaps badly, but still better than most other countries.

This rush to label Israel a racist state shows me where your head and heart really are. I am sad because I thought your site was a good place to go to see a light shined on some of the unfortunate aspects of the Jewish world/Israel. Yet your commentary here particularly tell me you are not writing your critique from a place of positivity, but negativity. You are not seeking to help Israel, but rather to denigrate it, as only a denigrator would call Israel a racist state (rather than suffering from some elements of racism within the state, which is an important distinction) as you have.

[Shmarya]

I just have not heard of a study that showed particular and systemic discrimination on such a level that I would level Israel a "racist society."

I told you where you can get access to those reports and studies. Now get off your ass and get them or be quiet.

Past that rather obvious point, the stories of discrimination against Ethiopian Jews are legion. For every good story there are 10 bad.

What makes Israel racist to the extent it is, is that much of the anti-Ethiopian discrimination could easily be stopped by the government, but it rarely does anything to combat it.

Jay told you about anti-Mizrachi discrimination, but you couldn't accept (or even understand) what he said.

Now process: just because your little mind hasn't seen a study doesn't mean the study doesn't exist.

and just because your little mind requires such a study and rejects the copious anecdotal evidence clear for anyone to see, does not mean that anecdotal evidence is worthless, or that its presence undermines the contention that Israel has serious race issues.

That you are too myopic and too close minded (and too mentally ill equipped) to understand any of this is not my fault, or Jay's, or anyone else's – it is yours and yours alone.

[Adam Neira]

I don't think Israelis are that high up on the global racist ladder. The Jewish community is a pretty polyglot and multicultural mix.

[state of disgust]

In recent weeks we have been treated to a number of examples of racist tendencies among a substantial proportion of Israelis, including the refusal to rent apartments to Arabs. One cannot deny the racist thread running through Israel at this time. Nor can one deny that the two centers of these racist expressions are the the Haredi community and the Russian immigrant community.
I quite agree that the Labor Party, Meretz and other political factions have failed to call these people out as they would have in the 50's and 60's. But that is evidence of the power of swing elements in a multi-party democracy - and one of its failings. Such racism is the antithesis of what the founding generation of Israelis believed in. Ben Gurion made a terrible bargain with the Haredim in his day, and now we are paying for it. It is time to separate Synagogue and State.

[Sam]

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=6&fid=7629780&jid=AJS&volumeId=34&issueId=01&aid=7629776&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0364009410000280

[nobody]

"Try to remember, however, that this is not the racism of 1950s Mississippi, with lynchings and denial of voting rights. It is more similar to the elitism of Florentine Italians, with its indifference to those other Italians who migrated north from Sicily and Calabria looking for work and a better way of life.

Racism is the wrong word to describe the problem. If using the r word has some shock value, and pushes Israel in the direction of resolving some of its real social problems, then perhaps it is ok to use the word. But my guess is that such wild accusations of racism are not helpful, and just serve to support the antisemitic claims of ignoramuses that Israelis are no different than the Nazis.

Posted by: Malcolm | December 29, 2010 at 10:45 AM "

Bingo.

Btw Shmarya, you're acting like a real child in this thread. I simply scroll down the page and I see insult after insult to begin each of your posts. Give it a rest already!

Does that add strength to your argument to call someone names? Or does it reflect your insecurity? Or does it actually convey weakness in your position which needs bolstering with insults added? Or some combination of all the above?

[Mr. Apikoros]

Anyone who disagrees with Shmarya, regardless of the merits of his (or her) argument, is an idiot, an imbecile, a moron, a shoteh, or a combination of all four.

[Shmarya]

Anyone who disagrees with Shmarya, regardless of the merits of his (or her) argument, is an idiot, an imbecile, a moron, a shoteh, or a combination of all four.

Posted by: Mr. Apikoros | December 29, 2010 at 11:24 PM

Anyone who disagrees with Mister A is simply a decent, normal human being.

[Shmarya]

Btw Shmarya, you're acting like a real child in this thread. I simply scroll down the page and I see insult after insult to begin each of your posts. Give it a rest already!

Does that add strength to your argument to call someone names? Or does it reflect your insecurity? Or does it actually convey weakness in your position which needs bolstering with insults added? Or some combination of all the above?

Posted by: nobody | December 29, 2010 at 10:41 PM

Please.

The man is an imbecile.

His basic argument is that if you cannot cite scientific studies to the contrary, then he has the right to say that Israel is not racist and anyone who says Israel is racist is some form of self-hating Jew. And, on top of that, he refuses to look at the Israeli press reports that show the patterns he denies exist, and cite studies, and he won't call the legal center for Ethiopian Jews that has much documentation to prove my point.

His argument is akin to saying in 1945 that Nazi Germany was not racist because there were only anecdotal reports of Nazi racism and antisemitism. (I am **NOT** making a comparison between Nazi Germany and Israel here; there is none to make. I'm simply pointing out the man's complete lack of normal thought process.)

I give people like you the ability to make nearly unfettered comments. I ask very little in return.

But one of the things I do insist on is that you make clear points that hold up factually and logically, and that you don't lie or play cheap little debate tricks like refusing to look at evidence unless I (or whomever else you're debating with) spends hours gathering, collating and then presenting evidence that you could easily see yourself in a few minutes if you would only look.

And to argue that the absence of a study allows you to disregard reams of news reports and anecdotal evidence is simply insane.

I owe this person nothing. In truth, I should have banned him a half dozen comments ago.

As for your concern about my language, I would only point out that you regularly attack politicians and others you dislike using equally harsh language.

Apparently you believe that you can vent your frustration at people you think are too harsh on Israel, but I can't vent mine on people I think are gratuitously soft on Israeli misbehavior and who also make arguments that have no factual or logical merit.

And you are wrong.

[esther]

"I just have not heard of a study that showed particular and systemic discrimination on such a level that I would level Israel a "racist society."

visit the website iaej-english.org/ (israel association for ethiopian jews) and look for 'the 5 year plan'.

they say that in 1994 IAEJ was the first and only organization that iniciated a campaign AGAINST the israeli government's policy of the wholesale placement of ethiopian children in to largely segregated boarding schools with NO ACCESS TO AN ACADEMIC LEVEL education.

this org. plays a big role in ethiopian lives... if this org. didn't exist... were these kids still "learning" in these "segregated schools"?

all i know is that last year some kindergadens refused receiving ethiopian children and the matter is being dragged until this very day. iaej involved again (as always)... but still... iaej still waits for a possible solution for the matter only for 2011...

[esther]

and whoever still does not believe ethiopians do suffer high levels of discrimination, it's just a matter of visiting their 'disco' in jerusalem and ask around whey they had the need to open their own place of entertainment.

ps: they were not allowed in other places.

"Despite many advances, 65% of Ethiopian Israeli children live in poverty and a third are at risk; only 21% of Ethiopian Israelis receive high school matriculations at a university entry level; and unemployment among Ethiopian Israelis is double the rate of the general Jewish population. IAEJ creates new opportunities striving to close these growing gaps."

[Riverdaleapikorus]

Shmarya- You lose credibility for your arguments when you engage in ad hominem attacks so cut it out already! Can we at least all agree that Meirav is one hot looking woman?

[Malcolm]

Shmarya, you wrote in response to someone: "You're an idiot. You don't know history. You can't make a logical argument. And you have trouble telling the truth."

Even if it could be verified that you have your facts right about this person (which I am inclined to doubt), that is not a constructive way to conduct a discussion. Not only is it lacking in Derech Eretz, it is problematic even in terms of Lashon Ha-ra.

I am sorry I even looked at these comments. The article, also, was not worth the time it too to read. Feh.

[yidandahalf]

There are no words to describe how boring the whole "racist" issue has become. Homo sapiens are animals, "racism" is a fundamental part of any individual's heirarchy of needs so to speak. "Separatism" exists and is enforced across species - this will always be the case. Homo sapiens are no different; they are essentially hard wired for "separatism" and thereby "racism". Malcom X evidently understood this, a few people seem to have a grasp of it now. All the warm and fuzzy think tanks and foundations will not find a solution because one does not exist.

[Shmarya]

Shmarya, you wrote in response to someone: "You're an idiot. You don't know history. You can't make a logical argument. And you have trouble telling the truth."

Even if it could be verified that you have your facts right about this person (which I am inclined to doubt), that is not a constructive way to conduct a discussion. Not only is it lacking in Derech Eretz, it is problematic even in terms of Lashon Ha-ra.

I am sorry I even looked at these comments. The article, also, was not worth the time it too to read. Feh.

Posted by: Malcolm | December 30, 2010 at 06:48 AM

First of all, I did not say that to him after his first or second comment and I was not the first one hurl invective.

Past that, when someone lies, and does so repeatedly, when someone says Ethiopians do no face systematic discrimination in Israel when reams of proof exists that they do, and when he refuses to look at that proof or to make one phone call to get it, no one has an obligation to be nice to him.

He's lying. He's making no logical sense. And he's wasting our time.

You don't like my response? Tough.

[Malcolm]

No, Shmarya. Saying "systematic" implies a government plan, such as apartheid. In South African apartheid there was a government policy, and a plan to implement it. I do not recall seeing evidence of such a government policy, and plan, to deprive any group of its legal rights in Israel.

There is certainly a deplorable government indifference to bias. And there is plenty of mean-spirited bias. But who ever said that ignorant bastards could not make aliyah? I wish the world were a nicer place, and I certainly wish Israel was a nicer place than it is; and I wish that every Jew in Israel was struggling to make chesed an integral part of his/her life. Perhaps when the Mashiach comes everything will be perfect.

In the mean time I wish people would stop calling Israel a racist country. It is not. It is a country with plenty of bigots, but calling it a racist country does not follow from that. Israel is a country that has a problem with bias, as does every country I know of.

[Shmarya]

In the mean time I wish people would stop calling Israel a racist country. It is not. It is a country with plenty of bigots, but calling it a racist country does not follow from that. Israel is a country that has a problem with bias, as does every country I know of.

Posted by: Malcolm | December 30, 2010 at 01:34 PM

All Merav does is say that many Israelis are and always were bigots, and it that contention the commenter we are discussing opposed.

Past that, Israel has laws against discrimination but they are rarely enforced, even in clear cases of extreme bias that involve other lawbreaking, as well.

Israel still funds dozens of schools that will not take Ethiopian students, even though they have converted according to halakha. It's a clear violation of law, but the government refuses to enforce it.

The same is true for employment and housing discrimination.

Even nightclubs and restaurants discriminate against Ethiopian patrons, and the government does not prosecute.

If this sis not systematic discrimination, I don't know what is.

[Malcolm]

No, it is not "systematic discrimination."

It is the same problem that exists in every country I know of. It is not racism, and particularly it is not systematic racism. Saying that harms Israel by giving support to the vicioius accusations of Israel's enemies.

What I see is ad hoc discrimination, without any organization, or plan, behind it that I know of. It is mean-spirited and exploitative; but it is not systemic Israeli policy. If racism was Israeli policy, as it was under South African apartheid, you would not see weddings like this, because a policy of racism would not allow it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emmy82tFT30

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Malcolm | December 30, 2010 at 04:31 PM

Please.

The government refuses to enforce the law. The lower courts often refuse to enforce the law.

And you say that isn't systematic?

[Yoel Mechanic]

Mr. A said: ... is an idiot, an imbecile, a moron, a shoteh, or a combination of all four.

This is truly (yet another) brilliant insight! Thanks you so much for this stimulating and insightful observation. I hasten to add I am extremely rarely unlikely sarcastic, so don't get any funny ideas. Now let's consider this term "combination" here. I started to think, lets count these insults: "How do I insult thee? Let me count the ways..." To make it more notationally convenient lets just number the insult. Also the insults come in combinations of 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4. I presume you really meant to say combinations of UP TO all four.
So the total is:

C(4,0) + C(4, 1) + C(4,2) + C(4,3)+ C(4,4)

C(n,r) == combination of n objects taken r at a time.

we get: 1 + 4 + 6 + 4 +1 = 16

At this point there are 16 TOTAL insult. But you say WAIT a COTTON PICKing SECOND. We are just adding up binomial coefficients. This would have also be done
with Pascals triangle ( remember 8th grade Algebra 1 class: (x + a)^4 )

Now, summing that row 1, 4, 6, 4, 1 gives the 16. But hang on there, 2^4 = 16 that is the fast way to sum up any row in Pascals triangle. You play with the binomial series to get this, but your posted showed me another way to think about this... all because you were vague about the word "combination". This fantastic idea, new to me, I'm sure must be well known, so I won't share, but will give a hint. I started to think about gray code subsets as a way to list out strings of insults. Well.. you can fill in the rest.

But there is more: combinations of insults in sets of 0, 1, 2, ..4 imply that the order doesn't matter. Just COMBINE. But if one is in a certain mood the order DOES matter. I feel very different about being called a Shoteh then an idiot, as opposed to an idiot first (which gets my dandruff up) and THEN called a shoteh. So we should add up permutations:

P(4,0) + P(4,1)+.....P(4,4) = 65

65 ....!!!!.... wowoo. that is a big number. the !~ does NOT mean factorial here. Please check my arithmetic. Anyway I think you must have meant permutations, cause you get so many more insults that way and that is what its all about: MORE WAYS TO INSULT.

In conclusion, with the 4 insults you listed, the threat (I mean thread) could go on for as little as 16 posts of different insults, but more likely will continue for up to 65 posts until the sequences of insults will have to repeat.

ps: why does this article have a picture of someone in their pajamas? Is that related to the topic in any way?

[Malcolm]

Please.

The government refuses to enforce the law. The lower courts often refuse to enforce the law.

And you say that isn't systematic?

Posted by: Shmarya | December 30, 2010 at 04:39 PM

..............

No, Shmarya, system wide is not systematic. I would say that Mexico's treatment of its Indian population is a systemic plan to deprive a people of the rights they are entitled to. But no one seems to care about that.

On the other hand, when some Jews find out that Israel is not perfect, they fall apart and the accusations of "racism" start. Israel is just a country that has the usual amount of bigots that are found in any country. Sure some people have been deprived of fair access to education, and that's bad. It is a problem that needs to be solved, and things can be done better. But it is not as bad as what Blacks face in NYC...the so-called 'Capital of the World'.

Really, I wish the world was a nicer place. But the world is not such a nice place. Israel a part of this not-nice world. But it is normal in its problems (in its not-niceness), and not exceptional.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Malcolm | December 31, 2010 at 03:17 PM

I think you're making a distinction that doesn't exist here.

The GOVERNMENT most often refuses to enforce the law. The lower courts most often REFUSES to enforce the law.

What do you need to see this as a systematic problem?

As for your remark about becoming disillusioned with Israel because I have now seen problems, I would point out to you that I have lived in Israel, worked there, and was well aware of many problems there 25 years ago.

But what is happening today is different. It is much more evil, more base, and more dangerous. It is anti-Jewish in many ways. And I'm shocked that you do not see that.

[Malcolm]

Shmarya, it seems that we disagree. Perhaps we should just agree that we disagree, and leave it at that for now.

Shabbat shalom.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Yoel: Thanks for the review of the binomial theorem.

But I believe we can limit the number of combinations to 16. In my mind, at least, it matters little whether one is a shoteh, than an idiot, as opposed to an idiot, then a shoteh.

Happy New Year.

[Yoel Mechanic]

Mr. Apikorus: L'Shanah Tovah to you too! (In case anyone is wondering why I say this when the secular calendar increments a year, it is for a simple reason: L'Shanah Tovah is a brachah, and why miss an opportunity to bless a fellow Jew :)

[bhoodlum]

Israelis are so funny, and by funny I mean utterly racist. When any public figure has the balls to call Israel out on their innumberable violations of international law the only card Israel has is the race card. Which is even funnier because Judaism is a religion. Jews are not a race unto themselves.