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December 04, 2010

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Maximillian Genossa

Sounds like someone is angry, bitter, disgruntled or all of the above. I see them in all walks of life, professional athletes, lawyers, physicians, priests, social workers, politicians, CEO's, company executives, salesmen, tellers, cashiers, students, professors and now...Shmarya and Floyd Landis. It works like this..."I did not like that they did not gave me the importance I think I deserve, I felt rejected so I left and now my raison de'etre is to trash talk them and scoop out all the negative stuff I can get my hands on.

Got some news for you, NOTHING is perfect, there is corruption and back stage jobs in all walks of life, ce la vie! That does not necessarily makes an entire institution evil, there are bad apples everywhere. Even King David had his own flaws. What planet you have been living the last 52 years?

Chicago Sam

I wonder how Dovid Eliezree treats people who tell him (1) their mothers are converts from the R or C movements (2) Does he welcome people who are patrilineal Jews, or does he tell them "You are not Jewish"--like Shlomo Schwartz routinely does? Chabad outside of Brooklyn behaves more like Bratzlav than Chabad.

Their supporters have no idea that Chabad is behind the "Who is a Jew?" movement that is segregating Jews by Choice from other Jews.

The duplicity in their emotional style of worship strikes me as being phony because in Brooklyn and Israel, they are extremely stoic. The public is being duped--again.

jay

@David: good one, well plagiarized ;-)

chabad houses

Chabad is very important for the Jewish community.
This article is very accurate in all the deatels
Shmarya is against the old Chabad times
Today Chabad is different and I think that Shmarya fits in Chabad today .I mean not in Chabad headquarters ,but in a small local Chaba house

Dave

Aleksandr, there is no problem. Thanks, I am glad we agree.
The only temporary difficulty is explaining to the "machers" how my solution to assimilation will be effective. I am certain it will be effective, but they have to be
persuaded.
David, ha ha! I laughed at your joke !

Aleksandr Sigalov

Don't worry, he's only temporarily dead for tax purposes and will soon return.
Wouldn't that be precious... ;)

David

I fear that a dead messiah might become a normative Jewish belief.

Don't worry, he's only temporarily dead for tax purposes and will soon return.

Aleksandr Sigalov

That's still a good start, since as far as I know that's where all Jews/ Israelites derive halachot from.
I was saying just that. In fact, I was implying that this is the only way to go anyway, as Chumash perhaps the most universal trait of all Jewish groups at the moment.

Believe me if we were able to get any sizeable number of adherents to the system I am proposing, I can assure you that Chabad and many other Haredim would be running after us for gelt.
Well... what is the problem, then? Or what do you think is the problem?


Dave

Aleksandr, Thanks for your comments.
I will study your website carefully.
1. It's true that the Samaritans only accept the Chumash as holy. That's still a good start, since as far as I know that's where all Jews/ Israelites derive halachot from.
Also the Karaites accept the entire Tanach as holy.
2. To be quite frank, I am not concerned what the Haredim or Chabad think.
Believe me if we were able to get any sizeable number of adherents to the system I am proposing, I can assure you that Chabad and many other Haredim would be running after us for gelt.

jay

Chabad has adeptly utilized Walmart's business model. They operate very lean, they use advertising and market saturation and they will gladly operate where no one else would consider opening a shul. Although I am not a great fan of their philosophy and certain practices, I do admire their success. If MO, Conservative and others were willing to do what they do, exactly the way they do it, they'd be far more successful as well. I doubt many of their rabbis would consider living the quality of life a typical shaliach accepts.

Isa

""""It's a pity they don't do kiru to people with a Jewish father and non Jewish mother too...""""

BUT THEY DO!!!
Maybe not all over and maybe just here or there...
Of course a nice contribution keeps the 'acceptance' going too!
I will not tell more and bugger someone's 'happiness'

yudel

Cults fashion themselves to needs and to the pursuit of getting true believers to take on the mission. For Chabad this is no surprise. It is actualy quite amazing we do not have more cults in the Jewish world.

But when you have insider in the group operations with what lifton calls sacred science, Mystical manipulation ,loaded language, doctrine over person, mileiu control and other matters the scene is set.

They found the niche and they exploit it for monetary gains, true believer gains, etc.
And at the center power.

It is not as hard as it may seem to do any of this. Meaning starting a cult. It does though take organization and today we find most eastern cults woven directly into society.And they have millions of members right here in america.

With Chabad acceptance is key. People can argue all they want about their messiah , learning, etc and that goes right by members but that is not anything that concerns them.

You convert, join and life changes. And that conversion is often the most powerful event a person can have in their lives. That release of tension and touching the divine is then exploited to the max by the group.They step right in with the explanation and provide explanations for everything as failed messiah knows.


And they are small potatoes btw as far as cults are concerned. Chabad's membership and even associations are dwarfed financially and membership wise by hebrew christian groups.

They offer a more powerful message than Chabad. We accept you not just as a jew but as a christian and label you hebrew christian. Thousands of years of murder are all solved in one full swoop. You are loved instantly by the dominate culture.

Interesting to note Chabad's biggest theological fights are not with any other Da-ati group but with Jews for Jesus.

Who has the real messiah ?

Theologically Chabad also uses its proof texts that are almost chapter and verse that Hebrew Christians use to prove that jesus is the messiah. Minus of course Is. 7-14.

They are now embedded and minus a scandal of epic proportions they will be around a long time as are all other cult groups. They are not going down the sexual scandal route but even that we see no longer breaks up totally any group.

And what is there to counter their message?

Jewish renewal which is a deli of anything goes including sex.

The frum world? Impossible it is filled with hatred and racism at the top and apologist in the middle and no one really speaking out that is trying to grow a base.

Ironically with cults it is not hard to form them. Not hard at all. But you do need the fund raising money people to get the ground stabilized. And you need the leader. Here i mean not necessarily an evil cult. Just a new strong populist group lead by a charismatic rebbe who knows the terrain and believes in his message.

And said Rebbe must be a stand alone and not part of the frum or any world but Jewish.

But Chabad owns the territory for now.

It really though would help people understand them more if they read more about cults in general besides lifton, margaret singer and host of others.

This is not new and much of this also is designed on break away christian groups that are up and running in america.

The trouble is no one wants to start a new group. Fear and intimidation as well as excommunication on all sides scares people away.

As well as honest people do not have time to do the work.

But watch something will arise new. It is time for it. But the BESHT did say no grand movement would ever appear again after him. But someone will start a praire fire somewhere and it will grow.

Abu Jihad Schneerson

It's a pity they don't do kiru to people with a Jewish father and non Jewish mother too...

Sarah

'Chabad, especially outside Israel, is now aiming at the lowest Jewish common denominator and learning how to swallow even Jews who are "hard to digest" from the ultra-Orthodox point of view.'

Oh G-d.
May I eternally be someone that causes a permanent blockage in the collective serpentine esophagus of the abovementioned contaminates known as Chabad.
Omayn selah.

YbM

Explaining Chabad: How Did A Small Hasidic Court Become The Worldwide Face Of Judaism?

how did they get haaretz to write something so blind and foolish. If this is Judaism, let me out.
"..vekhol hazeidim keregaa yoveidu..." - Liturgy
This Yair, isn't shedding any light. He is shedding darkness.

Aleksandr Sigalov

So, for all the complaining we see on this blog this technique can be used by anyone: get the person involved in a mitzvah and see what happens.
You are absolutely right! Let's see what happens (data according to adherents.com)

By involving the person in a commandment (proper Christian word for mitzvah), you get 2.1 billion followers

By involving the person in a message (word for mitzvah in Isalm, if Im not mistaken), you get 1.5 billion followers

That puts Judaism somewhere between Spiritism and Bahai, with only 14 million followers...

Now that you know, I think you'd better switch to Christianity... 2.1 billion people cannot possibly be mistaken... right???

Yoel Mechanic

Consider the possibility that there is a Torah, a Jewish soul, and a Creator. There is a connection of the three, through involvement in the Mitzvot. If so this would be the root of Chabad's success, not through their wonderful fiscal management ans well run businesses (give me a break) or through their brilliant use of Madison avenues techniques (righto!). So, for all the complaining we see on this blog this technique can be used by anyone: get the person involved in a mitzvah and see what happens.

A. Nuran

If I wanted to join a Jewish zombie-messiah cult I'd be a Christian. At least then I could have bacon cheeseburgers

Aleksandr Sigalov

In the 22nd century, Judaism will become another dead messiah religion, if Chabad is not stopped.
+500
I ABSOLUTELY agree with you !!! Right on, man !!! Although Chabad is not the only one who needs to be stopped.

This is worse than Shabtai Tzvi.
It is MUCH MUCH WORSE !!!

3. We can do nr.2 by concentrating on what we agree upon, and there is a lot we all do agree upon.

2 Dave: The ONLY thing that all Jews can agree upon had always been and always will be The Law of Moses (Five Books of Moses). You must be prepared to accept that, Dave, if you want to include Karaites and Samaritans into your plan.

What you are saying is the right thing to do, but some groups (i.e Haredim or Chabad) may not approve.

I hope you have seen my blog already. I would be interested to hear what you think about it...


Yoel Mechanic

>In the 22nd century, Judaism will become another dead messiah religion, if Chabad is not stopped.

seems unpredictable, but an unlikely and overly dramatic forecasting.

> This is worse than Shabtai Tzvi.

seems like such a totally different situation.

harold

how many of those people are even considering becoming a chasid? 0.01% perhaps?

I don't think that is what they are looking for. The question is, how many of those that attend a chabad functions give them some support?

I like chabad. I love the local shiluchim here in the 5 towns. My daughter attends medical school in upstate New York - not many Jews there but there is a wonderful Chabad near campus and my daughter loves the Rabbi, Rebitzen and her kids. I am MO and do support both these Chabads. How many more "Harolds" are there? (from the support aspect, not in persona g-d forbid, one is enough!)

jochanan

This is a bunch of hype.

Chabad is successful, vastly disproportionately so, but they are successful not so much in recruiting members or changing other Judaisms, but in empire building. But are they more successful than other missionary religions, like the Mormons? Utah is bigger than Crown Heights and Kfar Chabad.

The main thing that have succeeded in is becoming the face of Judaism in the media.

Is it worse than Shabtai Zvi? No, I think that's buying into the hype and spinning it negatively. By reading these articles, you'd think 90% of Jews were Chabadniks. And while I've read that something like 1 million Jews attend a Chabad function every year, how many of those people are even considering becoming a chasid? 0.01% perhaps?

I'm not worried.

Dave

Yochanan, you are absolutely right.
We will stop them by being even better than them.
By doing the following:
1. reaching out to all Jews, and all descendants of Jews- matrilineally through
rabbinic kiruv groups and patrilineally through karaite kiruv groups.
2. "burying the hatchet" between all theistic Jewish/ Israelite groups including Conservative, Reform, Orthodox, Reconstructionist, Karaite and Samaritan.
3. We can do nr.2 by concentrating on what we agree upon, and there is a lot we all do agree upon.
4. starting a world-wide kiruv organization using internet + schluchim- to both Jews and non-Jewish spiritual seekers. To the non-Jewish spiritual seekers, a very soft-sell low-key welcoming approach, but continuous advertising and schluchim based in as many countries as possible.
5. world-wide kiruv org to be overseen by a joint-committee of all factions/ movements and unaffiliated, and a committee of CPA's/CA's.
6. funding from "head office"- Not fund-raising by each of the schluchim (that's what Chabad does). that way the schluchim won't have to "schnor".
7. we must be welcoming, but we don't have to compromise our standards ie. no idolatry, quality control to ensure that no Christian missionaries and/or meshictim Chabadniks do not infiltrate.
7b. quality control can be established by having many many volunteers assist the schluchim on a month-to-month basis, to be coordinated with the schluchim and head office.
8. each movement/ group can run their own local show, but they have to cooperate with head office and submit to financial and ethical checks. Also each group must sign and adhere to a charter in which they explicitly commit themselves to not talking lashon harah about any of the other groups (eg. an Orthodox group may be against the Reform approach, or vice versa but they shouldn't "run down" the other group, they should only teach what they think is important (same goes for Karaites vs. Rabbinics, etc.)
9. a joint committe of Kulanu, Shavei Israel, Bechol Lashon, Pan African Jewish Alliance, and independent groups.
10. said joint committee to lobby all synagogue groups for anti-racist education.
11. a group to lobby "machers" to dramatically increase funding to the groups in 9.
12. if we keep "our eyes on the prize" and with Hashem's help, we shall certainly succeeed.
13. what are the pay-offs:
a. we counter assimilation
b. we out-flank Chabad
c. we strengthen Israel, through millions more committed Jews and converts world-wide
d. we can rebuild the 3rd Temple, with Hashem's help.
e. working to fulfill the prophecy "then ten men of each nation shall grab hold of the tzizeet of a Jew and say 'teach us for we have heard that G-d is with you' "

If anyone's interested in helping me, please e-mail me at: superdave8002@hotmail.com

Yochanan Lavie

I don't care if people become Orthodox. Believe it or not, I lean towards MO myself. I fear that a dead messiah might become a normative Jewish belief. That is not Orthodoxy, it's heterodoxy.

the usual chaim

lavie - if you read the article you would see that the vast majority of people chabad deals with are not on track to become orthodox, nor is that necessarily the marketing scheme at this point. your fears are ungrounded.

as to the educational issue - many chabad schools are absolutely terrible. it is very sad and there is a great deal of mediocrity. basically, all the intellectual resources went into outreach for many years and it hollowed out the movement. now there are very few people of teaching age who were educated sufficiently to provide a genuinely intellectual environment for students. Thus, present students are also left to hang and the absence is self-perpetuating. The schools that are not outreach schools, but are meant for chabad kids also tend to be terribly underfunded so that there is a constant cycling of teachers hired and quitting due to unstable pay ... or unsuitable teachers hired in the first place. it is very sad. I hope that in the coming years more attention is paid to this because it is a very serious problem

Office of the Chief Rabbi

One of the problems is articles, and headlines, such as we have here, which present Chabad as mainstream, normative, accepted and acceptable forms of Judaism.

Yochanan Lavie

In the 22nd century, Judaism will become another dead messiah religion, if Chabad is not stopped. This is worse than Shabtai Tzvi.

harold

Explaining Chabad: How Did A Small Hasidic Court Become The Worldwide Face Of Judaism?


Kein Yirbu!

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