UK Welfare Cuts Will Hit Haredi Community Hard

During the last round of cuts, of the 32 families in Hackney who were affected, 30 were from the Haredi community. This time, it is likely the impact on the community will be even greater.

Benefit cuts 'to hit orthodox Jewish community'
By Mukul Devichand • BBC Radio 4, The Report

A member of the north-east London Jewish community "Manni" is one of the Haredi Jews who fears losing his home as a result of the changes.

Manni, 28, opens his front door in Stamford Hill and invites me inside for a tour.

"I live in a five-bedroom house and I've got six children," he explains. "I cannot pay the rent if I'm not receiving the benefits."

Manni (not his real name) works full-time in a local Jewish organisation, but his low income and large family mean he qualifies for £420 a week of Local Housing Allowance to help pay his rent.

He puts in £80 a week himself for the family's home in an old Victorian street in north-east London.

But along with many tenants across the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, he is about to see his payments drop. From next April, the benefit will be capped at a maximum of £400 per week.

Six months later the cap will fall again to a lower rate, under the coalition government's plans to reduce housing benefit nationally.

Because no-one will be allowed to claim more than the reduced rate for a four-bedroom property, there will be a big impact in the Haredi Jewish community where families are often large.

The term Haredi indicates a devout and strict dedication to Orthodox Judaism.

The community's leaders estimate families like Manni's will lose £170 a week, and that around half of the community's 4,000 families use Local Housing Allowance to pay their rent.

Many in the community have already seen their housing benefit payments fall when the amount paid for a property with five or more bedrooms was capped in April 2009.

Of the 32 families in Hackney who were affected, 30 were from the Haredi community. This time, it is likely the impact on the community will be even greater.

Tight knit

"Every hard-working family in this country has to make a decision on where and how to live," says Welfare Reform minister Lord David Freud.

"It doesn't make sense for the taxpayer to see a different set of rules for people on benefit from those they have to live on themselves."
Rabbi Abraham Pinter Rabbi Pinter does not want his community to be forced to move

So did Manni realise this could happen when he chose to have a large family?

"I understand this point," he tells me. "But I cannot change my life, because I'm Orthodox Jew."

"I've got my children and I cannot give them away," he adds. "I have to help them to grow up."

Life in the Haredi community is intensely local. Stamford Hill has 70 synagogues, several Jewish schools and rows of Kosher supermarkets.

It is a tight-knit place where people follow strict teachings on their dress and behaviour, such as the rule that only travel by foot is permitted on the Sabbath.

"I love this area, but to be very honest I don't have a choice," explains Rabbi Abraham Pinter, a proud local figure who runs several schools.

"I have to live in this area because this is the only area where I would have the infrastructure where I can practice my religion and where my extended family lives."

The changes have prompted a series of crisis meetings in Stamford Hill. But the strictures of religious custom mean options for the community are limited.

Deprivation

There is very little suitable council housing on offer in the area. Community leaders say that although charity within the Jewish diaspora will help, it will not be enough to support all the families affected.

Still, Rabbi Pinter resolutely refuses to use the politicians' terminology of "social cleansing" that has coloured the debate.

"There's no question about it that the system needs to be reformed," he says. "But it needs to be done in a thought out way, and not to force people out of their communities."

The government is hoping that people will not need to move en-masse, because so many rents are paid by Local Housing Allowance that private landlords will be forced to drop their rates.

"I don't accept that they have to move," says Lord Freud. "I think some people may have to make adjustments in their housing."

But for Rabbi Pinter, the changes will mean a rise in deprivation and overcrowding - as families squeeze in to smaller homes rather than move out.

He says the prospect of recreating the fabric of Haredi life in a cheaper part of the country is a daunting one - but he is prepared to think about the option.

"In an organised way I think that is a future," he says. "We should have that vision of moving into other areas, but not in a forced way."

[Hat Tip: Undercover Kofer.]

Comments

[WoolSilkCotton]

How about finding a second job?

Imagine that, having to be responsible and accountable for your own expenses, and not relying on government handouts.
The same folks who vote republican, but want government handouts.

[WoolSilkCotton]

What's with that stupid photo of the back of some shmuck's head?

[IH]

""I live in a five-bedroom house and I've got six children," he explains. "I cannot pay the rent if I'm not receiving the benefits.""

"he qualifies for £420 a week of Local Housing Allowance to help pay his rent. He puts in £80 a week himself for the family's home in an old Victorian street in north-east London."

Translation: He is paying £2,167/mth in rent -- $3,422/mth -- of which his contribution is 16% the UK Taxpayers is 84%. And some of his kids have their own bedrooms (5 bedrooms: parents + 6 kids).

Happy Thanksgiving, indeed.

[Menachem Mendel lll]

B"H the Zionist state will also tighten the noose on these freeloading Haredi bloodsuckers.

Kicking and screaming these Haredi parasites will opt to march to their graves without contributing a since British pence to the society they leach off or Ha'as v'halelah work where a percentage of their non existent paycheck will to taxes.

Moshiach Uber Alles!

What a bloody hypocrite this Pinter is. If he doesn't want to force people to move his schools should stop rejecting every other child. It is this that is causing families to move.

[Devorah]

Our Monsey-New Squares live better and make far less (?). The US government should wake up also. Cut 'em off or ship 'em out.

No more extra $ for nose and boob jobs.

[A E ANDERSON]

Ha!

Maybe the haredi landlords will have to reduce their rents and take a profit haircut! I think that's a far more likely scenario than the mass evictions suggested by the article.

But really, why should paupers feel they are entitled to be housed at public expense in one of the world's most expensive cities? Certainly the Midlands would be cheaper.

[Yoel Mechanic]

>why should paupers feel they are entitled to be housed

How do you know they feel "entitled". perhaps they just feel they "need" for the clear reason of remaining in their community. A key issue is the one of how or why these communities become really really expensive.

[yidandahalf]

WSC, probably because the assholes never want to be recognized, go on record, or have their names published. They want anonymous parasitism. When resources are scarce and poplulations struggle for them, usually the wane of the latter is not slow. They drop fast. There is no use to wean these leeches off their hosts; just cut them off.

[uk resident]

you dont have the full story. Most pay more like 600 pounds not 400. What happened was that pinter who calls himself rabbi was a city councillor and managed to get the council to pay these exorbitant rents. The main landlords are the berger family who support his school. So why not get money for nothing from the council to pay the bergers to pay for his school. This has made the house prices rocket and people have been buying and letting at 600 pounds a week to pay for the mortgage. As you write a good few thousand people are involved. Now the goverment has reduced the rents so people will not be able to pay their mortgage and the tenants will be thrown out. In other nicer Jewish parts of london the rents are no where near these prices. I cant really see any solution.

[jancsipista]

i just want to say that people who get welfare and keep having more and more children on the expense of other have no right to demand more and more they knew they cannot afford that many children but they kept having them even an animal doesnt have offsprigs if they cant find enough food on their own why should humans be rewarded for their indifference not only to the people that have to pay for it but for their own children whom they cannot support on their own wnat kind of insanity is this?

[ah-pee-chorus]

: IH ----

good points.

[Moshe Aron Kestenbaum, Williamsburg ODA]

President Ronald Reagan often wove into his speeches the story of someone he called the “Welfare Queen.” She was supposed to live in Chicago, and she had created a slew of different identities as well as a clutch of deceased spouses who happily cashed their monthly government cheques.

This elaborate scheme was cooked up, said the President, so that she could bilk the system and keep up the payments and maintenance on the Cadillac she drove.

[David]

If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em.

[IH]

The rental price is not outrageous. I just looked at a few estate agent websites for rentals in the Stamford Hill area and it seems in line (or even below) market.

And "buy to let" is a popular business opportunity throughout the UK, so even if his landlord is a member of his community, I see no evil lurking there -- he's entitled to make a living.

So I see no reason to blame anyone in this story. Nor, do I see any reason to have synpathy for this Manni (not his real name) either. While it may not be convenient for him or his family, the UK taxpayer is not responsible for accomodating his lifestyle choices.

[Richard]

Just wait until the Republicans will be in contol of the Capitol Hill and some states around New York. Then you will se what cutting government spending means!

[David]

Where in Halacha does it say that your fellow taxpayers should be responsible for paying for your excessive numbers of children?

[Jeff]

@WSC: The same folks who vote republican, but want government handouts.

Ain't that the truth.

[Moshe Aron Kestenbaum, Williamsburg ODA]

You may find it funny to support some lazy creative bastards.

Unfortunately the truth is they can not work… Why? Because the yeshivas dumped em en mass on the street without being able to talk basic english. What a waste of a precious neshomes.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Moshe Aron, even foreign immigrants who can't speak English will drive taxis 100 hours a week, or mow lawns, or clean toilets, to support themselves, and they live a very humble lifestyle.

Our frumma brethren have no concept of hard work with long hours, or living in a humble way. Silver kiddush cups and candlesticks, expensive hats, nice cars,etc. There is no concept of living within your means and doing whatever it takes to support yourself in an honest, self-respecting way.

[uk resident]

"The rental price is not outrageous. I just looked at a few estate agent websites for rentals in the Stamford Hill area and it seems in line (or even below) market."

"And "buy to let" is a popular business opportunity throughout the UK, so even if his landlord is a member of his community, I see no evil lurking there -- he's entitled to make a living."

I am from the Uk and think I know better than you what is going on.
600 pound a week is outrageous.
Remember no one and I mean no one works. They can get 1000 pounds a week from the council depending on how many children they have. Some are in kollel, and make extra on the side.
The government at last has decided to put a stop to this waste and is cutting their 1000 pounds a week as well. This means that all charedi schools in Stamford hill have had it as well. There is a special office here teaching you how to go about claiming the money.
Rabbonim here have not yet decided if you can throw some one out who cant pay. Some say that even with a contract of 600 pounds a week it was understood that was only as long as the council paid. and there fore now he has to accept 400 pounds going down further soon. that is not my opinion. It is now on the BBC news and most likely will be in all the papers tomorrow. a bigger chilul hashem than anything you can come up with in the states. These chareidim cannot understand why the council is not liable for their rent! Have you ever heard of Jews working not in Stamford Hill.
Buy to let was never meant that the council pays the exorbitant rent.
What the new tory government wants is that all who cant pay should move out of london to cheaper areas and who can blame them. of course the chareidim cannot move out and that is the problem.
so they expect the government to change its mind to accommodate them.
isnt that a chillul hashem.

[Anne O'Nimmus]

I'm with uk resident. It's a tight little circle, where your landlord is part of "your" community. The rents have been put at a maximum in order to get in as much as possible and "circulate" it into the same community. There will be 000's of large families in the area, some in socially provided housing (cheaper), some in privately rented but with rents more reflective of the real local economy. About time the costs were brought down. Why should the rest of us pay our taxes to keep his landlord rich?

[uk resident]

No that is not the way it works in the UK. There is no socially provided housing as such. When Mrs Thatcher came in she ruined the housing market by making everyone available for rent rebate. What the Jews in Stamford Hill have done is making sure the council pays 600 pound a week which is not in Golders Green for instance. It was made as much as possible to make the rich richer not to circulate it. These rents do not reflect the real economy at all. I suppose it is difficult to explain the system to someone from the states where it is totally different. The main thing is that people have bought houses at inflated prices and live 'in each others' so claiming rent rebate and now will not get the 600 pound to pay the mortgage. That is another problem. The rabbis here will have full workload.

[nachos]

Just wait until the Republicans will be in contol of the Capitol Hill and some states around New York. Then you will se what cutting government spending means!

Posted by: Richard | November 25, 2010 at 01:59 PM

I hope you are being sarcastic. Didn't the Republicans give us Medicare Part D and fight two wars on borrowed money?

[IH]

UK resident -- I rented in Central London for 8 years. I know exactly how it works. I also have (non-Jewish) British friends who have "buy to let" investments: one renting to a local council in West London. And I have also walked around Stamford Hill and shopped in some of the Charedi stores there.

Your sentiments are OTT (relative to this particular story in any case).

[IH]

For those interested in the history to which UK Resident refers, much has been written.

Looking at a few articles on Google, this one (surprisingly) summed it up best:

http://pimlico-flats.co.uk/blog/renting-studio-flats-in-london/a-history-of-rent-and-housing-benefit/

(Pimlico is decidedly NOT a Jewish neighbourhood)

[IH]

For those interested in the history to which UK Resident refers, much has been written.

Looking at a few articles on Google, this one (surprisingly) summed it up best:

http://pimlico-flats.co.uk/blog/renting-studio-flats-in-london/a-history-of-rent-and-housing-benefit/

[Menachem Mendel lll]

These Haredi parasites do not need the day off that everyone else will be getting when Prince William marries Kate because every day is a day off with pay for these lazy pieces of bloodsucking payesed dreck.

They are already living the life as if the Moshiach arrived.

[yidandahalf]

IH, What is OTT?

[Abracadabra]

Even if what IH says is correct - in that the 600 a week is not exhorbitant rent in that area, there is still a big problem with what the Chareidim have done.

My understanding of what they did is instead of buying a property and then paying a mortgage on it of 600 a week (2400 a month), which they couldn't afford, they used a loophole. If they bought to let (bought a property as an invesetment and then rented it out to someone else), they could still qualify for their OWN government handout to pay their OWN rent of 600 a week which they paid to their OWN landlord. And their neighbor who they were renting their "buy to let" investment apartment to was getting the same 600 weekly handout and paying it to them so they could pay the mortgage on their "buy to let" investment.

The problem is that now that the government is cutting the rent handouts (by 800 a month), nobody can pay the rents, and because they are all renting from each other, everyone will be defaulting on their "buy to let" investments because their tenants wont be able to pay the rents. But they themselves ALSO wont be able to pay their own rents. And it's going to be a BIG mess. That's what happens when you build a house of cards. Eventually, it all comes tumbling down.

Of course no one in Stamford Hill is going to suggest that they all go get jobs, start practicing birth control, stop promoting a livestyle they can't afford, teach proper English to the boys in yeshiva, and teach them skills that can help them be marketable in the working world. That would all be way too responsible. Far too radical. Besides, now they can blame the government for being "Anti-Semitic" - just look at how they are targeting the Jews with these policies!

It's a big chillul Hashem, that's for sure. The non-Jews reading this stuff in the paper are surely furious that their tax dollars have been going towards these loopholes and schemes.

Watch your mailboxes folks. You'll soon get tzedakah letters asking for food to feed these kids, money for rent for the homeless, and pleas for "hachnosas kallah" funds to make lavish weddings, buy $3,000 streimels for the chosson and fancy jewelry for the kallah.

There will be emergency appeals for tzedakah funds so that "Manni" (in the article above) can continue to live in a 5 bedroom house for him and his 6 kids. (And of course when they soon become 12 kids they will need a 10 bedroom house... And make no mistake, if he has 6 kids at age 28, he will have 12 kids by age 38.)

This will eventually happen in the USA also. Except here the non-Jews will riot when they find out what kind of fraud the Chassidim in Williamsburg and Boro Park, and the Yeshivish in Lakewood are pulling. Unlike the Jews of Stamford Hill who are living next door to the middle and upper class citizens of London, the Jews of Williamsburg and Lakewood are surrounded by dirt poor neighborhoods full of angry lower class folk who are just looking for an excuse to blame someone else for their misery. And when they find out about all the Jewish fraud, lying and stealing from the government, which is either THEIR tax dollars or THEIR benefits they would have otherwise received, they will go ballistic, and riot. No polite Englishmen here in the USA. It will be mayham.

I'm seriously thinking of moving to Australia.

[IH]

OTT = Over The Top (i.e. exaggerated)

Estate Agent = Real Estate Broker

Council = Local Government. E.g. in Inner London, there are 12 boroughs, each with an elected Council responsible for most local services: schools, social services, waste collection and roads. They collect "council tax" from residents -- not owners -- based on assessed property value of the listed residence.

[IH]

Abracadabra -- not according to this story. And rent is calculated monthly as ((rent-per-week * 52) / 12).

There is no malfeasance in this story, just a man discovering that his expenses are greater than his income.

The State pays welfare to many people. And many of us think this is wrong, but unless I wildly misread the article, nothing illegal or even "cheating" is evident.

[IH]

By the way, the usual stories of this kind focus on Muslims. The number of Charedim is tiny and Stamford Hill is not an area that most Londoners have much interest in visiting.

I would, however, recommend a stroll in nearby Stoke Newington and, particularly, the Abney Park Cemetery.

[David]

Bottomline: Charedim exploit a loophole i.e. owning or buying a home and renting it to a friend and renting the friend's or someone else's home for themselves and claiming a wlefare rent subsidy. Then the rent subsidy is reduced leaving Charedim stuck with overpriced homes (which were inflated in price due to the scheme). My heart bleeds for them. They just might have to get a job to get themselves out of this mess.

[uk resident]

David and Abraca you got it dead right.

But that is only part of the problem.
There are thousands here like the article says who are renting at over the odds. Its not OTT like IH thinks. This has nothing to do with the cemetery. Whatever got that notion into you. These thousands are now all having their rents slashed. Plus their benefits which could reach another 4/5 hundred a week are also being slashed. There are already notices that one should start praying. The whole Stamford Hill economy works on this. So what will be the outcome. For a start school fees will not be paid. That means the schools will close. The rich will also have their income drastically reduced. Even those in central London are not renting but trying to sell out. The landowners in Stamford Hill all Jewish will be trying to get their tenants out for not paying the contracted price of 600 pounds a week. Many have bought for their children who live in Israel and are bringing them back. This pack of cards is falling.

[uk resident]

Central London always had higher rents. The embassies are there and rich people live there. Stamford Hill if you look on the map is not part of Central but Outer London and commands much cheaper rents. But there are a few streets in Hackney which Stamford Hill is part of which are in Central London. So the rabbis like Pinter in the article who was also a councillor and there are many Jewish ones decided that Hackney should also be classified as Central. This does not mean that anyone personally paid the exorbitant rents, but only the council did. So as usual the 'rabbis' are to blame for this problem but wont admit it. They will make prayer meetings and pretend to show their devotion. This has driven up the cost of properties since everyone 'bought' to let usually to himself. And the rich also bought up the lot squeezing huge rents from the council. Since the Jews were not paying themselves who should complain. Everyone was happy. Now look what has happened.
The milch cow has stopped milking. So the future looks bleak.

[IH]

For the record, UK Resident, Stamford Hill, Hackney is in INNER London. I guess you're not from London (Gateshead?)...

The cemetery was just a comment about interesting things to do that are not far from Stamford Hill (which is rather uninteresting).

You (and other) are inferring malfeasance that is not in the article.

And, finally, some of you also seem to have missed: "Manni (not his real name) works full-time".

Shabbat Shalom

[us resident]

thats why i love the USA if you dont have a job you dont have a nice house its that simple 420 pounds per week for nothing... that does not exist here also welfare is temporary here and when you use it up its gone that why we dont have all these separate ghettos of Muslims and ultra orthodox you either integrate and get a job or you dont eat.