Satmar Celebrates Anniversary Of Its Rebbe's Rescue From The Holocaust Without Thanking The Zionist Who Saved Him

For 66 years, Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum's followers have refused to thank the man who saved him – Rudolph Kasztner.

 

From Lakewood's Voice:

Brooklyn, NY – On 21 Kislev 1944, the Satmar Rebbe, Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum zatzal, was rescued from the Bergen-Belson Nazi concentration camp along with 1368 other Jews.  Since then, for the past 65 years, Satmar Hasidim have celebrated the day as a day of festivities which includes Divrei Torah, singing, and meals. The idea is based upon the notion of a personal Purim (See Chayei Odom Klal 41 for an elaboration).

(The above photo is Dec. 7, 1944 which was released by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shows the Satmar rebbe, third from left, with George Mantello, second from left, in white coat, arguing for the entry of the rebbe into Switzerland)

The event is usually topped off with grooms and brides that got married within the past week coming to the respective Rebbes at the end of the event and receiving all seven of the Sheva Brachos from the Rebbe.  Both groups engaged in this custom as well, last night [November 27].…

What really happened in Bergen Belsen? This:

[T]he Satmar Rebbe survived Bergen-Belsen because he and his entourage were passengers on Kasztner's Train (more here), the Zionist-organized rescue of almost 1800 Hungarian Jews negotiated with Adolph Eichmann, the Nazi in charge of the Final Solution.

The train was diverted to Bergen-Belsen by Adolph Eichmann and its passengers were held there as Eichmann waited to see if the Jewish Agency could come up with additional ransom meant to save other Jews.

The Kasztner hostages – who had marginally better conditions than other prisoners – were released on Eichmann's orders, 318 after about one month and the remainder after close to five months. All were taken to safety in Switzerland.

After the War, when Kaszter was libeled and the government of Israel sued in support of Kasztner, The Satmar Rebbe was asked to testify on Kaszter's behalf. The Satmar Rebbe allegedly replied, "I was saved by God, not by Zionists."

The Rebbe – who had ordered his hasidim to stay in Hungary and who steadfastly refused to believe the Nazis would harm Hungary's anti-Zionist Jews, fled Nazi-controlled Europe with the help of the Zionists he so vilified, leaving his followers to burn in Auschwitz.

Satmar (both factions) spent huge amounts of money to throw large events to commorate the rescue. But just like Yoel Teitelbaum, they won't thank the man who saved him, Rudolf Kasztner, or the Zionist movement he represented.

You can read more about Yoel Teitelbaum's behavior during the Holocaust and then during the Kaszter trial in the following posts:

The Satmar Rebbe and the Holocaust.

Satmar and the Holocaust.

Killing Kasztner.

[Hat Tip: Burich.]

Comments

[Teddy]

The Lakewoodians cannot even write Bergen-Belsen correctly?

[effie]

So, why did they help him escape after he urged his followers to stay and die? None of these so called rabbis should have been aided. They make me sick.

[ruthie]

I was saved by God, not by Zionists."
that dirt bag satmar rebbe could have mentioned rudolf kasztner's name.

MAY G-D BLESS RUDOLF KASZTNER A MILLION TIMES OVER.

i don't know...are satmar evil or just stupid?????

[Yerachmiel Lopin]

Some more corrections are in order. His conditions were not "marginally better at Bergen Belsen." They were incredibly better. He was a detainee in special section along with the others on the train. In Bergen Belsen Jews were being murdered and were dieing from the harsh conditions. Virtually everyone on the train was alive when the transport resumed.

The Satmar Rebbe was not the only charedi rav on the train. There was also R. Moshe Stern, the Debrecziner Rav and a few others.

Most of the people on the train bought their way in. If I recall correctly, the orthodox communities response (selection of the rescued and collecting and delivering cash) was coordinated by Filip Von Freudinger. He and his immediate family also survived.

[Chicago Sam]

Satmar Rebbe was really a Dirt-Bag Rebbe.
He was a Kafoy Tovah--and personified the worst kind of human being! I for one can think of dozens of other victims who deserved rescue, but not him or his ilk.

[WoolSilkCotton]

The Lubavitcher Rebbe rescued his books and fine china, rather than other Jews.

[ruthie]

woolsilkcotton...
you can't be serious... :( no! i can't believe that...no...

[yudel]

Should anyone be surprised at this? Note there is no satmar anymore. After Faiga died that was the end of it.

[jancsipista]

ruthie they are both stupid and evil of course some are decent but dont realize what they went into a cult that is

[A E ANDERSON]

Wasn't this the subject of Ben Hecht's 1961 polemic Perfidy?

If so, the Yoeli-in-chief would hardly be ungrateful for not thanking his benefactor, if the evil Nazi collaborator Kastner could be called a benefactor any more than Eichmann and the nefarious Jewish Agency types who helped these posh kapos effect their evil Jews-for-gold transaction at the height of the war.

In fact, an Israeli court (later reversed) in 1955 ruled that Kastner had "sold his soul" to the devil by failing to alert Hungary's Jews they were on the way to the gas chambers so that his Jews might be saved. Kastner later angered the Israeli public yet again when it was learned he had intervened in the war crimes prosecutions of at least seven SS officers. Kastner was assassinated on a Tel Aviv street. (see Wikipedia entry, Rudolph Kastner)

Of course, for we Revisionists (Herut, General Zionists, today's Likud), the Kastner Trial and its aftermath represented a moment of vindication, after years in the Socialist Zionist wilderness of the Mapai mandarins, Kastner fellow collaborators.

In light of this, Yoel Teitelbaum and the Yoelis of today can hardly be faulted for not honouring Kastner. I am puzzled why there's a הוה אמינא to the contrary in the first place.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Ruthie, it was discussed here about a year ago. I'll research the archive.

[YbM]

at least they don't call it rosh hashana of any sort. no lachasidus, nor l-ailanos nor la-shtaros.
aside from that, they have that strain of shtus common to all chosidim shoytim.

[DBSesq.]

On this I agree with Shmarya; Kasztner was mistreated by everyone. Considering that no one Jew saved nearly as many Jews as Kasztner (1,600 on the train and about 12,000 more whom he kept alive in Vienna) it's a black spot on the history of Israel's founding that he was dealt with so shabbily. He deserved better.

[Menachem Mendel lll]

I have always wondered why 6 million tzadikim were murdered while fuckers like this son of a bitch escaped.

Who am I to question the infinite wisdom of Ha'shem.

Moshicah Uber Alles!

[Shmarya]

Posted by: A E ANDERSON | Canterbury, New Zealand | November 30, 2010 at 08:26 AM

Please.

The man who shot Kasztner has publicly said what he did was wrong and that Kasztner did not deserve it.

Past that, more than a dozen historians of the Holocaust and Yad Vashem view Kasztner as a hero. And archival material from Hungary and Slovakia only opened to scholars in the past few years supports that conclusion.

I've posted about this several times and the facts are widely available, yet somehow you don't seem to know them.

I suspect that's because you dismiss facts that prove you wrong and that rock your worldview.

[corn popper]

Considering that no one Jew saved nearly as many Jews as Kasztner (1,600 on the train and about 12,000 more whom he kept alive in Vienna)

Posted by: DBSesq. | November 30, 2010 at 08:51 AM

Are you serious?
Does the name Michoel Ber Weissmandel not ring a bell by you?

[OMG]

I don’t have the time to get into a debate about Kasztner but see blow the link for a good article about this subject.

http://www.forward.com/articles/116718/

As a ex Satmar kid, I vaguely remember the Kasztner trial, but as I got older, I understood that the Satmar Rebbe never actually made any comments Vis-à-vis Kasztner. Additionally the Chasidim’s view was that Kasztner got paid a huge sum of money. All this information cannot deduct from the criticism leveled against the Satmar Rebbe, that before the war he encouraged his flock to rather stay put and not emigrate to Palestine or America.

[Shmarya]

Are you serious?
Does the name Michoel Ber Weissmandel not ring a bell by you?

He didn't save anywhere near the number of Jews Kasztner did.

[eli]

Kastner was a egotistical power hungry Nazi fuk, and I'm no fan of satmer but all you guys cursing out the rebbe will burn in hell. KAstner was responsible for aiding the nazis in killing theJews of hungry, he was their little bitch and he's prob in hell with them now.

[eli]

ANd just btw menachum mendel you are sick fuk, I see all your posts0indicate not only your lack of intellect but your general grudge against any religiop person. I'd love to hear you talk trash like this in person, I'd teach you some manners.

[Menachem Mendel lll]

Dear eli

Fuck you.

[ca]

MM, III - FU is WSC's line. LOL.

Lets all just each pick our most loathed Rebbe of all time and bash him now.

I will pick the kolover Rebbe, that low down dirty guy. he didn't suffer enough at the hands of the Nazi's. How dare he come to America. He should have gone to Africa and caught malaria to make sure he suffered more.

You can't get this kind of stuff on any Nazi site. I'm canceling all my neo-nazi site registrations and just staying here to get my daily much needed dose of Jewish religious hatred.

I can't even fathom the fact that Chasidim would allow themselves to die on mesiras nefesh while their Rebbe's saved themselves. What suckers. I was talking to a chosid who told me, he would save his Rebbe over himself any time. I told him he is a low down fool and that he should step on sick child molesting Rebbe's head to save himself if they were both drowning.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Eli, keep both hands on the keyboard.

MM3, kudos.

[jancsipista]

hey eli to me it looks like youre the one who is sick menahem is right on all those satmerers mostly are fakes they pretend to be angels but they are sadly the devils in disguise you writing here like a lowlife shows youre real personality, menahem has a right to express his feelings the way he wants to you dont since you hold youreself the judge of others who arent like you di farikte shoite

[Aleksandr Sigalov]

Common, guys !!!

We have been told recently by Mr. Ovadia, that goyim exist only to serve Jews.

So it does not matter if that guy helped or not: he was just the slave and was doing his master's bidding.... ;)lol

[Mr. Apikoros]

Eli:

I'd be happy to talk trash right to your face, you illiterate bastard.

[Mr. Apikoros]

And fuck the satmar rebbe, too.

[anti chabad]

those satmars have no gratitude .they have a cold heart and no soul .

just like the chabad ppl who take your money think it's normal, and do not owe you anything . chabad are THE WORST KIND , they take everything for granted ,
never thanks, never apologize .

i used to give to chabad , not anymore .

[Satmar Rebbe]

It is well know that Kastner was WELL PAID for "helping" the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L. Let's get the facts straight

[cowfy]

kastner mistreated?hell no.killed very nicely.the chickens come home to roost all you pinko scum.

[Shmarya]

It is well know that Kastner was WELL PAID for "helping" the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L.

Those would be lies "well known" in Satmar.

In reality, the facts show Kasztner bribed the Nazis with the money he got from his train's paying passengers, and that most of those passengers paid nothing to get on.

Reb Yoilish lied and his followers continue to lie, and you should all be ashamed.

[Satmar Rebbe]

Ashamed of what? Thank you for your input and your good quality blog

[cowfy]

lies shmaya?oh yea.you gotta know.

[Deremes]

For those of you who will say:
Don't confuse me with the facts i made up my mind, don't even read my comment.

To thank Kastner is like to thank the Nazis.Because after all it is they the German's who let the the train leave for Switzerland. Does anybody think we need to thank the Nazis?
Well Kastner did feel that yes. He felt it was important to give back a favor to the Nazi Kurt Becher and went to testify on Bechers behalf after the war. As it was all revealed at the Kastner trial.

Without getting into all the details which can take hours,weeks of writings and i will cite some books in the end of my comment,here are some tiny facts:

Most of you probably never heard of many Orthodox Askonim who were involved in saving Jews during the Holocaust.
The satmar rebbe ob'm was in the Cluj ghetto. Kastner who had his connections got permission for 300 Jews to travel to Budapest.
As its known the the satmar rebbe was a staunch anti Zionist he let his voice heard without fear as did most of the sages prior to the Holocaust.

To get on the list of 300 jews, nothing in the world not even money would persuade kastner unless you were a zionist.
There was a famous orthodox activist R' Chaim Roth (who btw after the war lived in willimasburg and headed the famous Yad L'achim org) and with his connections made sure that the Satmar rebbe should get unto that transport.
Again,it is very lengthy to write and to many details.

Later on, money was paid that the satmar rebbe should be part of the 1600 Jews on the train that left Bergen-belsen.

As far as the great tzadik rabbi Wiesmandel: it was he that held back for over two years the entire Slovakia Jewry they shouldn't be transported,through the money he gave to Wistlezini the nazi head in Slovakia.

To all of you with open minds, i urge you to read some books and you will all see who rescued Jews and how the jewish agency HELD back rescues in order to be able to ask for approval for a Jewish state after the war. The more jews get killed the more the world will see that jews most have a state.
They had over sixty million dollars at that time and refused to give money to rescue Jews.

Please dont belive a word that i write. Just go and read stuff that your hair will stand up.

Some books:
Perfidy
Min Hametzar
Holocaust Victims Accuse
The unheeded Cry
51:Documents:Zionist Collabratinon with the nazis
Ten Questions To The Zionist,
And many more.

[Shmarya]

Pathetic.

More than a dozen Israeli historians, including those with access to Slovakian archives, and Yad Vashem, along with literally dozens of historians of the Holocaust outside Israel side with Kasztner.

The lies of Satmar have clearly been exposed and sourced as lies, and Ben Hecht's Perfidy has long ago been proved false.

And Becher went with Kasztner to concentration camps before liberation and ordered their commanders to stop killing Jews.

Only sick twisted haredim and equally sick and twisted Revisionists would think testifying for Becher after the war was proof some type of crime.

[Satmar Rebbe]

Deremes, Kudos

[Deremes]

Pathetic it is.

Many Orthodox Jewish historians with access to archives all over the world including the archives of the Vad Hatzoloh that was headed by Rav Kalmonowitz in NY,will show the role the zionist establishment played during the Holocaust.
Those archives show also that money was paid so that the satmar rebbe should get on that transport.
Eichmann yemach shome wrote extensively what cold demeanor kastner had when he had meetings with him.
Nobody is denying that kastner rescued Jews. But his preference was the elite Jews only.Doctors,lawyers,musicians,writers.

Becher yemach shome saw whats coming that the war is coming to an end and every Nazi commandant will stand trail. Smart bastard that he was,he made a deal with kastner :i do you this and you will pay me back after the war. Again, don't believe a word that i write just go and read the court documents of the kastner trial.

No matter what, there is no reasonable answer how a jew can testify on behalf of a nazi after the war when there was no more fear of the Nazis. Only a twisted mind will find a reason.

[Shmarya]

Nobody is denying that kastner rescued Jews. But his preference was the elite Jews only.Doctors,lawyers,musicians,writers.

Please.

The vast majority of the people on Kasztner's train were not rich or the elite or muscians or artists or even Zionists.

They were Jews from all walks of society, many of them little children.

As for Becher, for whatever reason, he disobeyed orders and went with Kasztner and he saved Jews. And that is worth something.

[Ephraim]

Michoel Ber Weissmandel called on people to testify on behalf of Kastner. Now, I consider Ben Hecht a heroic figure, but he's worthless as a historian. The fact is that Kastner who having reached safety went back into hell over and over again to save Jews. People love to quote from Perfidy, but they never bother to read anything else.
I read Perfidy first, and then spent years attempting to verify its contents. I came up with nothing.

[Deremes]

Ephraim,
Maybe what you say is true, i don't know and highly doubt it.
What i do know as a fact that Rabbi Wiesmandel was asked by Kastners lawyer to testify and he refused for many reasons.

I am not here to defend Ben Hecht. Perfidy is only one of many books written.

[jancsipista]

deremes youre thinking is outdated you need to read books other then what supports youre way of thinking also you cant even spell properly i can see were you come from, you have like other satmerer hassidim an extremly closed mind incapable of accepting oppinions that differ from youre this is trademark of the satmerrer holier then thou attitude di shoite vus di bist

[jay]

My father is from the region including Satmar. He tells me that the preeminent Rebbe at that time was the Klausenberger Rebbe. He suffered through the holocaust with his followers, not abandoning them to their fate like Yoilish Teitelbaum, y'm.

[Ephraim]

"Perfidy is only one of many books written."

I'm aware of many of the books you cite. But they are all worthless. They all are poorly documented, and are written by amateurs. None of the books actually deal with the realities of Holocaust rescue. The Unheeded Cry, for example implies that it was no big deal to raised huge sums of money, illegally move it during wartime and hand it over to Jew haters for the purpose that they might keep their word and save Jews.
These books have an agenda. For Ben Hecht, it was to attack the left-wing Zionists. For Rav Weissmandl (whose cousin and associate Gisi Flesichmann was a Zionist) it was to attack the Zionists.

How do you think I got my opinions? I read Perfidy and was determined to research to see if his accusations were true. I came up empty handed. True, there were individuals who could have done more to save Jews; perhaps there were those who should have been more aware of the imminent danger against Jewry. But I could not substantiate any of accusations brought up by Hecht and his circle.
You like reading books? Try these:

Ben Gurion and The Holocaust
The Politics of Rescue
The Abandonment of The Jews
Jews For Sale?
A Race Against Death
...and many others.

If you don't read them, you're intellectually dishonest. And there's nothing to fear- these books will not turn anybody into a Zionist.

[Deremes]

jancsipista: I am not into name calling games,fact and truth what counts.
Make sure to spell check before criticizing someone else .

jay: Its if you are a frum Jew or not. But you do come across a bit like a miemor(in spite)

Don't be foolish. Almost every single person who was able to get rescued did anything and everything to do it.

You really got sucked in what shmarya wrote in the post:
"The Rebbe – who had ordered his hasidim to stay in Hungary and who steadfastly refused to believe the Nazis would harm Hungary's anti-Zionist Jews, fled Nazi-controlled Europe with the help of the Zionists he so vilified, leaving his followers to burn in Auschwitz".

Repeat the lies many times until its hard to believe how people can make up such lies so it has to be true

[Shmarya]

Repeat the lies many times until its hard to believe how people can make up such lies so it has to be true

They aren't lies. They're documented facts.

[BronxJew]

The Klausenberger, Kalever, and Bluzhever rebbes suffered in Auschwitz and did not abandon their followers. From what I understand R' Yisroel Spira (the Bluzhever) was there the longest.
As the grandson of suvivors, I am not impressed with rebbes like the Satmarer and Belzer who lied to their flocks and ran like bats out of hell to save their own hides. They are in the same category as the New Orleans preachers who were airlifted out of that city to safety during Hurricane Katrina - bankbooks and financial papers in hand - while their parishioners drowned in the streets.
You want a REAL hero of the war? Rabbi Menachem Zemba. He and the other two chief rabbis of Warsaw, zt'l were offered safe haven by the catholic church but refused saying, "We are not leaving our people". Those are Tzadikim. And as with most true Tzadikim, very few know of their deed.

[BronxJew]

Dr. Henryk Goldszmit, zt'l who went by the pen name "Janusz Korczak" was also a true Tzadik. He ran an orphanage for Jewish children in Warsaw, and marched with two-hundred of them into the gas chambers.

[Deremes]

Ephraim
You made up your facts and cant be confused.
The Unheeded Cry does tell how the Jewish agency refused to give money and how Sally Mayer who was part of it gave an answer that its "illegal" to give money to enemies. I guess, Dina Damalchsa dina,hu?

Rabbi Weismandel sent along a letter to jewish leaders with Wiselintzi( pls help me out with his correct name) when he went from Slovakia to Budapest to be the head nazi commandant,stating that for money he will hold back transports of Jews. And willing to let go the a big part of Jews in Hungary for money.
Rabbi Weismandel knew a bit better then you because he made deals with Wiselintzi in Slovakia.
Rabbi Weismandel was one of the biggest anti Zionist rabbis, so what you write about G.Flieschman is non-sense.

[jancsipista]

deremes youre right on my spelling but thats were youre emes ends didnt double check, youre deluding youreself starting with youre name here this is a trademark of the hassidim mostly the satmerers their whole life is self delusion like yourse you cant admit to youreself that others have better knowledge about what happened during the war, you only read what agrees with youre way of thinking as usual no one can be right only the satmerers thats why they are mostly dead wrong

[Shmarya]

The Unheeded Cry does tell how the Jewish agency refused to give money and how Sally Mayer who was part of it gave an answer that its "illegal" to give money to enemies. I guess, Dina Damalchsa dina,hu?

While Sally Mayer was no hero, the book misrepresents what happened – and that's saying a lot because I knew the author's son and used to eat lunch with him regularly when we were both in university.

If you had even the slightest understanding of what the Holocaust was and how it worker, you'd know most of the dollars for Jews schemes were impossible and could never have worked.

Ironically, one clear exception to that rule was Kasztner's, and for his hard work – and after saving thousands of Jews, the most saved by any Jew during the Holocaust – he got as reward vilification from lying scum like Reb Yoilish – who Kasztner saved! – and Shmuel Tamir.

[David]

What is your source that RY was requested to testify at the Kasztner trial and refused, and the quote attributed to him?

[Shmarya]

What is your source that RY was requested to testify at the Kasztner trial and refused, and the quote attributed to him?

It's in practically every scholarly work on Kasztner, and Satmar has never questioned it.

[shmiel]

Who ever speaks a word against satmer rebbi I promise will rot in hell

[Shmarya]

Who ever speaks a word against satmer rebbi I promise will rot in hell

Good to know your word is so powerful.

Now I'll tell you something – all the people who follow Reb Yoilish are already in hell, a hell of their own making.

[fred]

what a frikin retard should he have thanked eichman too for ordering the release?u crazy read perfidy he sold out to the nazis!

[ruthie]

Dr. Henryk Goldszmit, zt'l who went by the pen name "Janusz Korczak" was also a true Tzadik. He ran an orphanage for Jewish children in Warsaw, and marched with two-hundred of them into the gas chambers.

Posted by: BronxJew | November 30, 2010 at 03:54 PM

thank you for bringing the name janusz korczak to light.
he was a great great man.

[Moshe Aron Kestenbaum, Williamsburg ODA]

Shkotzim, reshaim gemurim,Chilonim, bnei noach, and bein assess. How dear you assault the satmer rebbi yolish ? He was a holy man that went into even fire to help a fellow jew no matter where he came from or where or what he was,He always said that when a jew is in need help you first make sure to help him , dont ask shailos . He was my only rebbi that I had and I will ever have. Kastner was opportunistic, he helped some and dumped others. To say katsner was saint? No way . He cheated on his wife openly even after he emigrated to Isreal, His wife Bogy was always talking about it. He was shot when he wanted fame and he ran for a kenneset seat, and that was already to much for a son that loat his father because Kastner didnt put his father on the train because he didnt have money. just read Ann porters book on Kastner

[Robert Wisler]

I didn't know that Janusz Korczak was a pseudonym! There's a street on the east side of Skokie, IL called "Dr. Korczak Terrace" in memory of him.

[jancsipista]

moshe arons you know the saying zay nisht kain nar hob nisht kain tsar take it into consideration

[Bill]

I attended a talk by Porter in Toronto when her book on Kasztner was published. There were some people in the audience who were actually on the train who made very clear that they didn't pay any money to get on as they didn't have any ability to pay and no payment was asked of them. They said as long as you could get to the train station you were able to get on the train. No one was checking papers or passes. True or not, this was their first-hand testimony.

[ruthie]

. He cheated on his wife openly ...
moshe aron...what are you an idiot????
so he cheated on his wife!!! big deal. are you jealous???
you are funny. you made me laugh..

[Moshe Aron Kestenbaum, Williamsburg ODA]

Bill yes, It was total chaos out there in Budapest and in klausenburg at the train station . The Arrow cross was shooting jews left and right for no good reason. People who had passes and had paid alot of money for the passes were shot dead for no reason. Listen kastner did good , but to say he was a saint? Chas milehaskir . The jews were helpless and no one in the whole world cared . What with the st louis? I still have sleepless night when I think of what the jews went thru on that ship, Not even cuba wanted them, not even this tini ini mini country called Belize wanted them . I still can't fathom the cold blooded attitude that the whole world has against the jews during that time.

[Moshe Aron Kestenbaum, Williamsburg ODA]

I will repost the story of The St Louis ship. these where jews who paid money and had paid certificates to enter cuba.Read on,,

The St. Louis was a German ship carrying 930 Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany to Cuba. When the ship set sail from Hamburg on May 13, 1939, all of its refugee passengers had legitimate landing certificates for Cuba.

However, during the two week voyage to Havana, the landing certificates granted by the Cuban director general of immigration in lieu of regular visas were invalidated by the pro-fascist Cuban government. When the St. Louis arrived in Havana on May 27 only 22 Jewish refugees were allowed entry.

Cuban President Federico Laredo Bru then insisted the ship and its remaining 900 Jews leave Havana. The refugees were also refused entry into the United States. Thus on June 6 the ship was forced to return to Europe.

these jewes all perished as victims of the Nazi Final Solution

Erets erets al techasi es domom.

[nachos]

And fuck the satmar rebbe, too.

Posted by: Mr. Apikoros | November 30, 2010 at 12:41 PM

Which one?

[Bill]

Another interesting point raised at Porter's presentation was the accusation from some in the audience that Kaztner didn't warn the Jews of his homewtown about the "final solution" awaiting them. Had he done so, they could easily have walked across the nearby border into Roumania. However others in the audience who lived there during the war years maintained that this was totally unrealistic. That it was impossible to go down the street for a newspaper let alone to escape across the border as the streets were heavily guarded and movement was greatly restricted. Again, true or false, this was their first-hand testimony.

[OMG]

Posted by: Deremes | November 30, 2010 at 03:59 PM
You wrote
“Rabbi Weismandel sent along a letter to jewish leaders with Wiselintzi( pls help me out with his correct name) when he went from Slovakia to Budapest to be the head nazi commandant,stating that for money he will hold back transports of Jews. And willing to let go the a big part of Jews in Hungary for money.
Rabbi Weismandel knew a bit better then you because he made deals with Wiselintzi in Slovakia.
Rabbi Weismandel was one of the biggest anti Zionist rabbis, so what you write about G.Flieschman is non-sense.”

Deremes, upfront let’s just tell you that you are a moron, I will not get into a debate with you because you totally lack the ability to analyze historical facts vis-à-vis what was possible and what was nothing more than a dream. For the readers please allow me to explain, in 1944 you had millions of Allied soldiers fighting, overall in the war 22 million allied soldiers died. And Eichmann Y’S first wanted millions of dollars then he wanted 2000 winterized military trucks, and from where the Jews would buy these trucks? don’t you understand, the Nazis believed that the Jews control the world, therefore Eichmann Y’S believed that the Jews could get the trucks. Nevertheless, Rabbi Weismandel, he was just plain stupid, to think for one second that anyone could arrange for the purchase and the delivery of 2000 trucks. Only dumb idiots who didn’t study history will eat this pure garbage.

[OMG]

Posted by: Bill | November 30, 2010 at 08:04 PM

You are right, additionally, when the liquidation of the Hungarian Jews commenced, the Romanian Jews were already liquated.

[OMG]

Posted by: Moshe Aron Kestenbaum, Williamsburg ODA | November 30, 2010 at 06:42 PM

If I am not mistaken, I think I remember you from the Yeshiva, I was older, we learned together in 167 Sands St. I agree that the Satmar Rebbe was a good person, who would help finically every Jew who would ask, regardless, of the level of observant. That said we couldn’t just wipe away the big mistake with real consequences, that the Rebbe told numerous chasidim not to leave Europe.
Shmarya, I love you for what you do, exposing the underbelly of the orthodox community. But, I must disagree with you, as far as I know, the Satmar Rebbe never ever vilified Kasztner, I would like to see some historical documentation. As far as I know, for the rest of his life I believe that the Rebbe regretted that he was direct impediment for his chasidim to save themselves from the gas-chambers.

[antony]

The story goes that kastner's father in law who was on the train (or perhaps some other of his family) wanted the satmar rebbe on the train because he thought that with him on it, there was more likelihood they would be saved. The story goes that the satmar rebbe did not want to go alone and they even agreed that some of his gabaim could go with, anything to get him on the train. I also understand that he was trying to run away but was caught on the way in the town where Kastner's family lived perhaps it was Kluj or Klausenberg of vampire fame.

[Shmarya]

The story goes…

Absolutely false.

It is amazing how many Satmar-generated lies some of you believe.

[Bill]

OMG: In Gaylen Ross's film, "Killing Kasztner", she documents that during the trial, Kasztner's lawyers went to the Satmar Rebbe asking him to make a statement on behalf of the man who was instrumental in saving his life, and he refused saying, "The Zionist didn't save me, G-d saved me."

[Bill]

The quote in my last comment should have read:

"The Zionists didn't save me, G-d saved me."

[Bill]

OMG: Please see also here -

http://www.jstandard.com/index.php/content/item/10201/

[antony]

Thanks for link from people on the train.
As the lengthy comments there say, there are a few inaccuracies.
But the story does unfold there, that it was the slovakian Weismandl and his cousin Fleishman who ensured the success of the trip. Without them it would have been doomed. The Swiss Saly Mayer could greatly have helped, but did not because he thought they were all 'rabbis' on the train. I am just copying what is written there which has to do with this post.
I forgot to add, to my previous post, that his father in law who was in Cluj as the link points out, and the Satmar rebbe was also there at the time, had a dream that his father came to him and warned him he would not be saved unless he took the rebbe on the train with him.
You will say of course again its all satmar lies, maybe, will we ever know the truth.

[jay]

Yoilish wasn't even considered a "rebbe" prior to the war. He was a wealthy merchant who happened to have smicha. It was onlly afterwards when a number of the remaining local Jews returned to a shattered life, that he organized them into "Satmar hassidim" As my father relates , prior to the war the local Jews mostly turned to the Klausenberger (and his rabbis), the bidsadder and other genuine tzaddikim for guidance. BTW- the Klausenberger was in the Baia Mare ghetto of his own choice, to be with his people. My father was deported to Auschwitz from Baia Mare with him.

[Shmarya]

But the story does unfold there, that it was the slovakian Weismandl and his cousin Fleishman who ensured the success of the trip. Without them it would have been doomed.

False.

I forgot to add, to my previous post, that his father in law who was in Cluj as the link points out, and the Satmar rebbe was also there at the time, had a dream that his father came to him and warned him he would not be saved unless he took the rebbe on the train with him.

False.

You will say of course again its all satmar lies, maybe, will we ever know the truth.

It isn't simply that I say they are lies. More than a dozen historians who study the Holocaust say they are lies, as does Yad Vashem.

[Jay]

Satmar was founded on a mythology created post-Holocaust by Yoilish and company. Just consider how they treat each other nowadays, much less other Jews. Schisms, riots, beatings, cemetery desecrations, synagogue desecrations...

[OMG]

Posted by: jay | December 01, 2010 at 06:19 AM

Although, I am not orthodox and I don’t belief in any human special powers, you are either good or bad, but I cannot sit back and not comment, on facts I know is not true. My father RIP was one of the Rebbe first students in Ilosva currently in Ukraine, a few years later he went with the Rebbe to Kruly in Romania, in both positions, he was the towns Rabbi and had a small yeshiva. Finally, a faction of Satmar Jews asked the Rebbe to come and be their Rabbi and there was an election with both sides fighting in the streets. My father married his first wife in Satmar and his father in law was one of the main characters in the Satmar community. Finally in Satmar is where he was transformed from a Rabbi to Rebbe. History is usually repeated with every Rebbe, the same story happened with Rabbi Moshe Teitelbaum who succeeded the Satmar Rabbi, who I still vividly remember as a small time Rabbi who had a small real estate empire with interest in few nursing homes. Think about MM Schneerson, he was a failed engineer. The bottom line is nobody is born to be a CEO of a fortune 500 company they work and they get promoted, the same could be said with Rebbe’s, they have to work to get promoted.

[jancsipista]

the whole satmer cult is based on fear and intimidation from early childhood years in heders they beat you into submission i know it first hand they the rabbis have no mercy on someone who cant keep up with their style of behaviour or thinking they in short are terrosists and they terrorize theier own kind

[jancsipista]

i forgot to say their biggest fear is that you will think for youreself that is unacceptable thats why they keep rehashing the same foolish or dummn stories like jay writes the whole satmer sect is founded on mythology the biggest sin is if you think things thru or if you start thinking critically and see reality

[satmarrebbe]

Reb Yoilish's memory should be blessed

[jancsipista]

Finally, a faction of Satmar Jews asked the Rebbe to come and be their Rabbi and there was an election with both sides fighting in the streets.
my uncle a few years ago told me he himself witnessed the fighting the other sides were the berbeshters my uncle even said that what they did the satmerers was nothing short of hillel hashem they were throwing stoes at each other it was terrible to see how they bahved well the apple doesnt fall far from its tree they are doing the same thing today

[OMG]

Posted by: Bill | December 01, 2010 at 01:43 AM

Bill thank you for the link, it was a good read. The only issue I have with the comment “Reb Yoeli would later betray Kasztner when approached to be a character witness. He said that God had saved him, not Kasztner” without any citation. That said, if it is true this would be one of his biggest character flaws.

[OMG]

Posted by: jancsipista | December 01, 2010 at 10:00 AM

Satmar is no different from any other Jewish or none Jewish religious sect/cult. the vast majority follower just follow without any intelligent curiosity, then you have a small percentage who understand their situation but for fear of the unknowing they fail to take the step needed to free themselves. Finally, you have a select few who were willing to put their toes in the water, and in realty we are the majority of the Jews but we always act as if we are the minority.

[Jay]

Yoilish didn't earn his following. He took advantage of the chaos and bereavement that followed the war in order to create the cult that's ultimately generated tremendous wealth for his descendants. Many Satmar are dirt poor , yet the organization(s) are worth 100s of millions.

[Mr. Apikoros]

"Many Satmar are dirt poor, yet the organization(s) are worth 100s of millions."

Similar to the Catholic Church in that respect.

[Deremes]

Shmarya, I quoted you yesterday:

"The Rebbe – who had ordered his hasidim to stay in Hungary and who steadfastly refused to believe the Nazis would harm Hungary's anti-Zionist Jews, fled Nazi-controlled Europe with the help of the Zionists he so vilified, leaving his followers to burn in Auschwitz".

My reply was:

"Repeat the lies many times until its hard to believe how people can make up such lies so it has to be true"

Your response to it:
"They aren't lies. They're documented facts."

1)While the war was in full swing and hundreds of thousands Jews were slaughtered in Poland and Ukraine,many or most Jews in Hungary didn't even hear of Auschwitz and didn't believe or just couldn't believe exactly what was going on there.

2)Show me a document from the Rebbe where he orders his Hasidim to stay in Hungary and he knew what was awaiting them. We call this TOT Tuchas oifen tish.

Bill,
The train from Budapest was suppose to leave on a Friday night with about 700 people for whom money was paid for.The sirens went off because America or England were about to bomb or whatever.It sounded for about 4 hours. After it got quiet the order was given to go to the train again. Many people from that place which was called the Columbus lager heard about it and took advantage of the chaos and darkness outside and pushed themselves on the train even they didn't pay or had the right documents. so total number became about 1600 people.
I heard it first hand from R' Chaim Roth who was one of the biggest Askonim in Budapest.
You don't have to believe me.

Also Bill you say:
"Another interesting point raised at Porter's presentation was the accusation from some in the audience that Kaztner didn't warn the Jews of his homewtown about the "final solution" awaiting them. Had he done so, they could easily have walked across the nearby border into Roumania. However others in the audience who lived there during the war years maintained that this was totally unrealistic. That it was impossible to go down the street for a newspaper let alone to escape across the border as the streets were heavily guarded and movement was greatly restricted. Again, true or false, this was their first-hand testimony."

Ok,lets say that it would of been impossible to cross the border.What does it have to do with Kastner not warning the Jews whats awaiting them? He could of tell them the truth and let the poor Jews decide if they want to run or hide or whatever. Why did he keep them quiet and told them lies where they are being transported?

Shmarya,

"The story goes…

Absolutely false.

It is amazing how many Satmar-generated lies some of you believe.

I forgot to add, to my previous post, that his father in law who was in Cluj as the link points out, and the Satmar rebbe was also there at the time, had a dream that his father came to him and warned him he would not be saved unless he took the rebbe on the train with him.

False.

You will say of course again its all satmar lies, maybe, will we ever know the truth.

It isn't simply that I say they are lies. More than a dozen historians who study the Holocaust say they are lies, as does Yad Vashem."

I heard it first hand from MY Uncle who knew Dr. Fischer Kastners father in law. Also, Rabbi Fischer o'bm who passed away about 8 years ago who was one of the leading Rabonnim of the Eidah Hachrideis in isreal and was i think a nephew of Dr. Fischer, use to relate the story. It was btw his mother that he dreamed about.

I am not sure, but i think that Kastner at his trail stated that his father in law requested the rebbe should be on the train.

Again you do not have to believe a word that i say.

And finally Shmarya, since you used a profane word against the satmar rebbe,listen to this:

On the train from Bergen-Belsen to Switzerland there were the elitist of the elite from Hungarian Jewry such as Judges,lawyers.doctors musicians,poets and many more which were all secular. Also many Rabonim and kehila leaders. One of them was a Dr. Kennedy i cant recall his first name.

After the war he wrote an article in a newspaper if necessary i will try to locate it and post it. He writes that when they arrived in Switzerland there were many people awaiting them. And all they heard screaming "where is the rabbinar where is the Satmar rebbe. He writes that they just couldn't believe it. Here we are THE people who thousands have read our poets and books and heard our music and no one is asking where is this writer or this Dr. all they care where is the Rabinar.

[Deremes.]

f i have time i will write soon how the train leaving Bergen-Belsen to Switzerland was almost turned around to Auschwitz. But because the Satmar Rebbe was there it arrived to freedom. How Eichmann yms was involved and the rest of the Orthodox Askonim from Budapest,Switzerland.

[Shmarya]

You just keep writing lies, lies that are proven lies. lies that have long ago been exposed as lies, lies that no university-trained historian of the Holocaust believes.

And that makes you a typical Satmar husid, too brainwashed and too ignorant to know or understand truth.

[OMG]

Posted by: Deremes | December 01, 2010 at 12:49 PM
You wrote,
“Show me a document from the Rebbe where he orders his Hasidim to stay in Hungary and he knew what was awaiting them. We call this TOT Tuchas oifen tish”.

Well I don’t need any documentation, my father may he RIP, told me first hand facts, that the Rebbe told him to stay put. And he lost his first wife and three children, my siblings. And guess what, my father was close to the Rebbe. In fact, after the war, the Rebbe asked my father why he is going to work and not opening a shul, my father replied that he believes in working to earn a living.

[jay]

Deremes, you want to believe the propaganda that legitimizes Yoilish, go right ahead. Those of us who have family from that region who aren't beholden to Satmar ,but were witnesses to decades of his reprehensible behavior have reason to believe that he's in a place so hot, he's baking a cake without an oven

[Deremes]

I stand behind every word i said. Just because you don't like the facts it doesn't become lies.

[OMG]

See link below
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/yad-vashem-hopes-kastner-archive-will-end-vilification-1.226041

Unjustified smear campaign
Yad Vashem officials said the material released yesterday would finally put an end to what it said was an unjustified smear campaign against Kastner.
"There was no man in the history of the Holocaust who saved more Jews and was subjected to more injustice than Israel Kastner," said Yosef (Tommy) Lapid, chairman of Yad Vashem's board of directors, himself a Holocaust survivor from Hungary.

[Deremes]

OMG, I still owe you a response to what you wrote:

"Rabbi Weismandel, he was just plain stupid, to think for one second that anyone could arrange for the purchase and the delivery of 2000 trucks. Only dumb idiots who didn’t study history will eat this pure garbage."

Much to write about with details,not for now.
But one quick reply:
Rabbi Weismandel besides being a tzadik was a genius in all aspects. They say that hadn't he been Orthodox he would of been an Einstein.First he was a great great talmed chocem. He knew almost all secular studies. He knew physics,mathematician and almost everything was open to him. He went to London pre the Holocaust to oxford library and sat there for weeks. So to call him what you did,is silly.

jay,
Your worthless even to reply.From your comments i see where you coming from, i feel your pain. Go to uc and bang your head to the wall screaming why am in this place.

[jancsipista]

its mathmatics not mathmatician, a genious can make the same foolish mistake as any laymen as omg writes no rational thinking person would beleive that 2 thousand trucks would be given to the gremans especially when they are the enemy and especially in a situation like as the yiddish saying goes this is for you deremes zay nisht kain nar hob nisht kain tsar

[OMG]

Posted by: Deremes | December 01, 2010 at 01:40 PM

Deremes, first let me admit to my mistake it was 10,000 winterized military trucks, not 2,000, I almost certainly know more about Rabbi Weissmandel then you, and in fact, my older brother was a student in Nitra yeshiva just a few years after he died. Now if it is true, that he was a genius, as you and his students claim, then explain to us morons, from where the Zionist would buy the 10,000 trucks. Who would produce them? The only country that had the capacity to produce that kind of production was the US, are you saying that the US would stop its own war production and supply the trucks for their own enemy. So we would be willing to prolong the war. Where would it stop? If the Nazi’s asked for fighter jets, or long range bombers, should the US supply them? For the sake of this discussion, let’s presume that the US would be willing to produce 10,000 trucks for the enemy, how would you propose we should ship the trucks to Germany, via FedEx? Be for real, Rabbi Weissmandel might have been a smart person, but there is an old saying, when someone drowns in water, he will even grasp, at a straw. Unfortunately, Rabbi Weissmandel indeed grasped at straws, and he died as an angry man, who never was able to understand. Why the allied forces were not willing to stop and supply their enemy with military trucks to use against them.

[OMG]

Shmarya, maybe you didn’t notice my question to you, please can you reply, see below.

Shmarya, I love you for what you do, exposing the underbelly of the orthodox community. But, I must disagree with you, as far as I know, the Satmar Rebbe never ever vilified Kasztner, I would like to see some historical documentation. As far as I know, for the rest of his life I believe that the Rebbe regretted that he was direct impediment for his chasidim to save themselves from the gas-chambers.
Posted by: OMG | November 30, 2010 at 10:27 PM

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

To OMG and Demeres:

I suggest you read Anna Porter. The trucks for Jews deal was a joke, and everyone but Rav Weissmandl knew it (maybe he knew it too). Himmler was using it as a cover to carry on his own negotiations with the allies. However, Kastner and Brand begged the Jewish Agency to play along with it to buy time.

By 1944, most of the Nazis knew the game was up. For that reason, some of them could be bribed. Himmler could be bribed; he was trying to fund his postwar retirement. Becher, as Himmler's deputy, was under orders to be bribed. Wicisleny (spelling?) could be bribed. Eichman could not be bribed by anything or anyone. He once remarked that if he could save his life by not killing 25 Jews, he'd kill the Jews and jump into his grave happy that he was able to kill 25 more. At the end of the war, Eichman was fighting his own war and trying to do an endrun around Himmler. That is why the Kasztner train was detoured to Bergen Belsen instead of going straight to Switzerland.

Kasztner and Rav Weissmandl were playing the same desperate game with the Nazis. Both were trying to stall the deportations until the Allies either bombed Auschwitz or occupied Hungary and Slovakia. Rav Weissmandl got cut short when a revolt broke out in Slovakia and was crushed, and Eichman was able to use that as a pretext to speed up the deportations there. Kastner was able to hang on much longer.

With regard to the Satmar Rebbe, I don't believe there is any evidence that Kastner put him on the train. He got on the train because Pinchos Freudiger put up a good part of the money Himmler wanted to let the train go, and he got to pick some of the passengers. Freudiger saved the Satmar Rebbe (and others), although he didn't go on the train himself. After the war, he was attacked for not having done more, and when he testified for Kasztner at the trial, Tamir demolished him, quite unfairly.

If you read Porter about the trial, you find that Tamir turned it into a circus unlike any until OJ Simpson came along. What Tamir did was a disgrace to Israel's judicial system and the legal profession in general. In fact, if you want to believe in fairy tales, you can say the Satmar Rebbe's refusal to testify for Kasztner was ruach hakodesh. He knew what the trial would degenerate into, and refused to be part of it.

[Demeres]

Lawrence M. Reisman,
R' Chaim Roth o'bm(ever heard of him) who headed the Yad L'achim org and who was one of the biggest Askonim during that time,tells the following:
When the train left Budapest it made a stop by the border of Astoria or Preesburg(i cant recall which).In some way they found out that the train is going to Auschwitz.One of the passengers was a former Hungarian soldier, a Jew of course who didn't have to wear the yellow star. The Satmar Rebbe asked him to go to Budapest to R' Chaim Roth and tell him whats going on.
Then they both went to Kastner and told him that the train is bound for Auschwitz. Kastner at first responded "the cheridam with their lies". He told him that he has here one of the passengers who was a soldier and he brought me the news. So they went to Eichmann and the bastard replied:let this train go to Auschwitz and i will give you another train that will leave for freedom.
R' Chaim Roth says that he doesn't know how he had the chutzpa and the courage to scream before top henchman Eichman. And he screamed and pounded on the table to Kastner: "How dare you do this to me, i paid you a large sum of money so the Satmar rebbe should get to freedom".
Eichman said he never got it. Eichman did get money for seats in general but not for specific people.
R' Roth asked Eichman how much you need and ill bring you. He went home took whatever he had and gave it to him. And the train then went to Bergen-Belsen.

[jancsipista]

demeres- like youre other pieces this also sounds like a dreikop piece youre writing here the trademark of satmers the champion of dreikops twisting everything inside out