Shoshana’s Story: A 12-Year-Old Heroin User's Life On The Streets

She was a 12-year-old Jewish heroin user who got her first high by tricking an older boy into believing she was 16. He did for her what she couldn’t yet do by herself – he shot her up.

This post is part of an ongoing series on Jewish homelessness and poverty.

Shoshana’s Story
A 12-year-old heroin user's life on the streets
By Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

She was a 12-year-old heroin user who got her first high by tricking an older boy into believing she was 16. He did for her what she couldn’t yet do by herself – he shot her up.

She was a 12-year-old runaway, a kid parents warned their kids about, wild and unpredictable.

But she had behavioral problems long before the first time she felt heroin course through her veins.

And when she was 9, her parents sent her to a therapist to resolve them. But the therapist sexually molested her.

She spent most of a decade on the streets, sleeping in squats, in shelters and under bridges. She ran with a group of homeless kids and survived while many other street kids did not.

Her name is Shoshana. I spoke with her yesterday. This is her story.

She was raised in a Modern Orthodox community in the Los Angeles area but she grew up on the streets of Hollywood and New York. She train-hopped across the country. She stole to eat and she stole to feed her heroin habit. She watched friends die.

Shoshana ran from a home and a community where she didn’t fit in, a perception that was certainly enhanced by the sexual abuse she suffered.

She told me she vomited over and over and over again during that first heroin high. “I remember things like, why am I doing this? But it really didn’t feel that bad because I was puking and it didn’t really feel like I was puking.…I’m not sure why I still did it.”

Female victims of child sexual abuse often cut themselves or injure themselves in other ways. Another Jewish survivor of child sexual abuse I know used to masturbate with a pencil, point in, hard, until she bled. When she told me this I called Vicki Polin of The Awareness Center to ask her about it. She told me it’s common, and went on to talk briefly about girls who cut their vaginas with knives. Suicide attempts, self-mutilation and drug addiction and overdose are often the byproducts of child sexual abuse, and lend credence to the few Orthodox rabbis who have ruled that child sexual abuse is a crime that overrides any concern about mesira, the Jewish law that forbids informing on another Jew to police or secular authorities.

Heroin offers a form of self mutilation combined with a numbing effect that dulls emotional and physical pain – at least until the heavy cravings for the next high sets in. Perhaps that’s why Shoshana used it. “It was weird,” Shoshana told me about her first experience with the drug that killed Jimmie Hendrix.

Her mother sent Shoshana to a boarding school out of state to try to reform her. After a while, Shoshana convinced her mother to move her to a boarding school closer to home. When she did, Shoshana ran away, back to the streets of Hollywood and her friends. “I manipulated her,” Shoshana said.

Sometimes they hopped freight trains and travelled to New York, where she told me she met a large number of haredi street kids. She told me about one boy in particular, a rabbi’s child. “He looked religious but he sure didn’t act that way.”

Shoshana and her friends panhandled for money to eat and feed their drug habits. They would supplement that income when necessary by robbing houses. But if she saw children’s toys, cribs or strollers, she’d try to stop her friends from robbing the house. There was something about the children and the need to support them that stopped her cold.

Sometimes Shoshana picked up johns who wanted to be dominated by a young girl. She'd handcuff a man to the bed and then take his money and watch, and leave. She justified this by convincing herself she was victimizing perverts."You wanted to be f@%$ed by a young girl? Well now you have been."

Even though she was on the streets and often high, Shoshana somehow managed to get a high school diploma. A school bus driver looked out for her and used to pick her up from the street at five a.m. every morning and get her to school. “I actually owe my bus driver my high school diploma,” she told me, and she wasn’t kidding.

Shoshana stopped using heroin when she found out she was pregnant, and says she has been clean ever since, about 5 1/2 years. She lives with her daughter and works and hopes to go back to school to become a Medical Assistant.

Her relationship with her parents is still strained. She can spend a day with her father and all he says to her is good morning. She still gets along with her siblings, though, half of whom are very religious. The other half are secular.

But she recognizes the pain she must have put her parents through. “There must have been so many times when they thought I was dead,” Shoshana told me.

I asked her what the Jewish community could do to help street kids. She pointed to a lack of street outreach and the need for drop-in centers that are open 24/7.

She spoke about a Hollywood-area drop-in center that served breakfast and lunch, allowed kids to take food with them, had showers kids could use, and gave kids clothes and hygiene products. But they couldn’t sleep there. The couldn’t even take a nap sitting in a chair. That’s probably because many cities have laws that forbid using drop-in and day centers as domiciles. These laws may be a reflection of attempts made to discourage homeless people from congregating in a city, or could be meant to encourage the homeless to get jobs or to force them into the shelter system or to prevent them from sleeping all day and hitting the streets all night where, presumably, they would otherwise commit crimes.

But largely all these laws do is make already sleep-deprived people even more tired and less able to cope.

Shoshana told me she wouldn’t have gone to a Jewish-only drop-in center or shelter. It would have to be a place where everyone was welcome, she said.

The street outreach Shoshana means isn’t a Chabad mitzvah tank and its table of Shabbos candles and tefillin.

She means a different kind of outreach, one that is based on helping people no matter who they are. “There used to be people who went out on the streets and handed out [free] sandwiches…,” Shoshana said, voice trailing off. Those people are now gone. Shoshana means outreach done by people who care about these street kids, who are willing to meet them where they are and be their friend, no strings or conditions attached.

There is one former haredi rabbi, Yehuda Fine, who has been doing this for years, working on his own and with Covenant House and the Reciprocity Foundation in New York, and in other cities, including the L.A. area. But he’s one man. And he isn’t funded by the Jewish community.

There are literally hundreds of Jewish kids in New York City that on any given day could use these services. Other cities, like the L.A. and it’s surrounding communities, have a large number of Jewish street kids, as well.

These kids are largely on the streets because they were raped or abused, or because their sexual preference was not accepted by their parents, who threw them out rather than have a gay son or daughter at home.

They make up a large segment of our community’s homeless and they have more access to government services than any other segment except the elderly. But their needs are far greater, and they are not being met.

They are off our community’s radar.

The Federations could fix this gap in services by funding Covenant House and the Reciprocity Foundation in New York, and by using Jewish professionals – like the above-mentioned Rabbi Yehuda Fine – who have worked these streets and who have saved the lives of many of these street kids, to train other people to do the job, and then paying for that job to be done.

The theme of this year’s General Assembly of North American Jewish Federations is tikkun olam, repairing the world. The GA will be held in New Orleans, and part of what its thousands of attendees will do is help rebuild homes destroyed in Hurricane Katrina five years ago.

This is good, important work. But it is not enough.

Right now these Federations rely on Covenant House and the Reciprocity Foundation to do the work with our homeless kids. Worse yet, the Federations do not support this work financially. This is inexcusable, just as it is inexcusable that Jewish homeless between the ages of 21 and 60 can’t count on the Jewish community for help or shelter, either.

Tikkun olam means more than using federal grant money to help a designated class of people. It means helping people even when their needs are not funded by government money or when their appearance and their drug habits are off-putting.

If the Federations really want to repair the world, helping our own homeless, along with advocating for affordable housing and government programs that would help everyone who needs it, would be a good start.

Rebuilding Katrina-ravaged houses cannot be allowed to be both the beginning and end of the Federations’ tikkun olam.

More posts on Jewish homelessness.

Comments

[unProfesser]

I'm not sure who it is with the great imagination, if it's Shmarya, or this woman, but I sure don't believe this story to be anything more than a cute, agenda-driven, fairytale.

[Shmarya]

I'm not sure who it is with the great imagination, if it's Shmarya, or this woman, but I sure don't believe this story to be anything more than a cute, agenda-driven, fairytale.

Why?

I confirmed it with a street outreach worker who knows her.

[Shmarya]

I sure don't believe this story to be anything more than a cute, agenda-driven, fairytale.

Don't you believe there are runaway kids on the streets who live like this?

Is that what you mean?

[ruthie]

there are certainly MANY runaway kids on the streets. many many many

please show them compassion

[BaltimoreYid]

It always amazes me that there's never any money here in Baltimore to help children such as these. "Off the derech" is a term that's tossed around a lot but to no avail. Interestingly there's always money for newer, gaudier and more massive shules. It appears as though our priorities are all f_ _cked up.

[Shlomo]

Baltimore yid you get to put your name on the building but what do you get for helping these kids (other than Olam Habo)

[Moshe aron kestenbaum, Williamsburg ODA]

KIDS are our number one priority and we are f'd up by not helping them. Priority should be given to addressing the severe screwed up lack of real yeshiva education infrastructure. Anyone who does not teach his son a skill or profession is teaching him to be a thief and robber ... (Talmud Shabbat 10b); Every child has the right not to drown. This is what the Talmud says about parenthood not what these f-d up screwed rabbis think

[nachos]

What happened to harold?

[sam]

Why in the world Sh would you contact Vicki Polin, who went on the Oprah show claiming her family and other Jewish families were part of a Jewish cult going back 100's of years that bore babies in order to murder them in Jewish ritualistic murder rites. She is a total nutcase, and your "consulting" her puts your entire article in doubt.

[Shmarya]

Why in the world Sh would you contact Vicki Polin, who went on the Oprah show claiming her family and other Jewish families were part of a Jewish cult going back 100's of years that bore babies in order to murder them in Jewish ritualistic murder rites. She is a total nutcase, and your "consulting" her puts your entire article in doubt.

It's not unusual for victims of child sexual abuse – especially if the abuse began when the child was very young and had any ritual components – to have issues like Vicki had 25 years ago when she was just coming to grips with it and ended up on Oprah.

That doesn't make what she does now, 25 years later, crazy.

She's a licensed therapist who specializes in child sexual abuse issues, and she knows what she's talking about.

Further, if not for what Vicki has done over the past decade, there would be no movement to stop child sexual abuse in the Orthodox community, and for that she deserves our thanks and some respect.

Unfortunately, friends of Hershy Worsch, a rabbi who exploits his clerical position to manipulate and sleep with his female students and congregants, have waged a long war against Vicki because she helped to expose him.

You're buying into their BS and you're ignoring the good Vicki has done.

[sam]

Regarding Viki Polin, got this off crazijews.net, but google her name and see her performance on Oprah (Oprah almost came at the joy of describing a Jewish death cult): Vicki Polin talks about her jewish satanic ritual abuse upbringing. This was filmed in 1989. This is more evidence that there is such a thing as satanic ritual abuse used to create DID, something the CIA has been doing for decades. Vicki is currently the Executive Director of The Awareness Center, a Baltimore area sexual [...]

[Shmarya]

Regarding Viki Polin,

I see you missed my answer to you.

Why not read it and deal with it before you make any more comments about Vicki?

[sam]

And here is a site that allows you to play the Opra segment with Vicki making her claim. Watch Oprah practically wet her pants with the joy of tarring Jews with yet another blood libel.

[sam]

So here are some of the Jewish participants in the war to annihilate the Jews:

Vicki Polin
The professor who a few years ago wrote a book claiming that that was never a Jewish people, we are merely a ragtag group of recent converts to the faith

The professor (I believe Italian) who wrote a book trying to justify the claim that Jews murdered little Christian children to use their blood in Matzahs.

Sh, are these the sources you really want to rely on?

[the usual chaim]

unProfesser -

even if it were agenda driven, what is wrong with an agenda that promotes supporting the vulnerable? who knows if it is true and who cares? if shoshana isnt real there are other kids who are.

[Shmarya]

So I see Sam is incapable of reading my response to him and he is incapable of even being accurate.

Oprah went out of her way to reduce the impact of what Vicki said, and that is obvious to all but the most rabidly biased.

People like you, Sam, are transparently cruel.

You don't care about the facts. All you care about is attacking someone you dislike and "protecting" your community.

I asked you nicely to read my answer to you and deal with it before you made any more comments about Vicki.

Instead, in your rush to heap your hate on Vicki and anyone who dares mention her in a positive light, you skipped it.

What's the matter, Sam? Is the truth too inconvenient for you?

[Shmarya]

Let me also add that the information I attribute to Vicki is well-supported in the medical literature and I doubt there is any licensed therapist who specializes in working with abused kids would contradict it.

The issue, Sam, is that you really do not care about homeless kids or child sexual abuse – you care about hurting Vicki.

And that is very sad.

[sam]

Sh, I just scrolled up and saw your response. I think you're saying that Vicki WAS one screwed up person but isn't any longer - ok, I'll buy that -IF VP admits she fabricated the dead infant story; unless she does so, she's STILL too screwed up to be a source for anything.

And regarding Rabbi sexual abuse, it's disgusting - keep up your good work exposing it.

[Elias]

there is a great jewish humanitarian organization in Toronto called Vahavta. They send vans out to deliver food and clothing, but especially kind words and friendship.

The volunteers represent the full spectrum of the jewish community.

It is a beautiful example of tikkun olam.

Shmarya, would you like to learn more about the organization and perhaps use your talents for tikkun olam?

[harold]

They are off our community’s radar.

I unfortunately can understand why. While this is truly a sad story, except for the fact that she had a Jewish name, I found nothing Jewish about her story. Even her comment "Shoshana told me she wouldn’t have gone to a Jewish-only drop-in center or shelter." is telling.

Too many things that bothered me, “They would supplement that income when necessary by robbing houses”, “I manipulated her, Shoshana said.”, "You wanted to be f@%$ed by a young girl? Well now you have been." This was not a story about a “Jewish” girl, but one of a troubled girl.

She deserves to be helped, like many of the multitudes of lost souls out there, and I mean serious help, but a “Jewish” cause, like one run by Chai Lifeline for Jewish children stricken with cancer, I don't know.

[Shmarya]

She deserves to be helped, like many of the multitudes of lost souls out there, and I mean serious help, but a “Jewish” cause, like one run by Chai Lifeline for Jewish children stricken with cancer, I don't know.

You're a truly sick little man, 'harold.'

[harold]

You're a truly sick little man, 'harold.'

Maybe I should seek some help from the Federation.

[steve]

Unfortunately, there are too many Harolds out there that don't understand the devastating effects of child sexual abuse. Many experts who deal with OTD children on a daily basis will tell you that the number one cause for kids leaving yiddishkeit is sexual abuse. The Harolds of our community look at these kids and say, "Oh well, they could use help, but since they are disconnected from frumkeit, they don't deserve that much attention." What they fail to realize by continuously burying their collective heads in the sand, is that had they not suffered this abuse, these kids would be like any other typical "frum" children whom they would be so proud of. So in the end, not only are these victims stifled, muzzled and villified when the abuse occurs, they are further abused and labelled as "not Jewish" when they are suffering the effects of the abuse later on in life. Stories like Shoshana's and Shua Finkelstein a"h further show the devastating, life threatening effects of child sexual abuse.

[Hometown Postville]

This is beyond heart-breaking! What can one do for such a tormented soul?

[Shlomo]

Harold there are many frum people reading this blog even if they don't write you often come across as having confronting / strange opinions often you make a good point but here you are coming across as heartless. If we don't look after our tormented Jewish souls who will? And she has a history of sexual abuse which is the closest you can come to killing a child if its not a living death. Her life must be a living hell.
Other people will read your comments and believe they are the norm in the frum/chareidi world and will be turned off.
If you haven't anything positive or useful to say ...

[Adam Neira]

Prayers for Shoshana.

[harold]

but here you are coming across as heartless

All I am doing is attempting to answer Mr. Rosenberg's implied question of:

They are off our community’s radar

You may not agree with my analysis, but at least I attempting to take a stab at it.

By the way, I speak only for myself, for anyone to think that I speak or represent anything else is being foolish.

[harold]

This is beyond heart-breaking! What can one do for such a tormented soul?

I assume you could always send her a nice size check. It won't undo all that she has gone through but it can help her and her daughter in the future. Mr. Rosenberg I am sure would have no problems forwarding your donation to her. There is nothing like direct tzedaka without any middle man to siphon off the top for administrative costs.

[Louise]

http://critcrim.org/critpapers/pepinsky4.pdf

http://critcrim.org/critpapers/pepinsky6.pdf

http://critcrim.org/critpapers/pepinsky7.pdf

I am posting Hal Pepinsky's work with the hope of bringing greater understanding and help to problems such as Shoshana's.

[A E ANDERSON]

I think this story is compelling. One must take especial care to verify every detail on stories of this nature, especially in the wake of Janet Cooke and her "Jimmy's World" fabrication in the Washington Post. Even absent malice, street people habituated to telling the listener what he/she wants to hear may not present the most reliable sourcing. With these caveats, however, this is clearly a story that demands telling.

[ruthie]

1. shmarya......that the number one cause for kids leaving yiddishkeit is sexual abuse. miss s. left yiddishkeit!
and that's a prettttty frum family...or so they want you to believe!!

2. harold you really don't know what you're talking about! you have no idea what these kids are feeling on the streets.
they feel ALONE. they are ALONE.
DO NOT JUDGE THEM HAROLD. DON'T YOU DARE JUDGE THEM.
prayers for shoshanna and ALL the kids out there. winter is coming...
show these kids ONLY kindness and the utmost respect. they DESERVE it. poor children...my heart goes out to them.
there must be something we can do? people who don't understand them...like you harold....please just keep quiet on this one.

[Forty Eighter]

Shmarya, you did't mention whether Shoshana came from an intact family or a dysfunctional one. There is a big difference. If her family were intact chances are that they would have reached out to her more and not let her fall to the depths she did. The article says she has a daughter. I bet you that when that daughter reaches 16, her situation will not be rosy either. These situations tend to repeat themselves in cycles. Family breaks up... children get messed up.... have more children....etc. The mistakes that Shoshana made in her youth are now destined to perpetuate themselves for eternity.

With regards to Vick Polin, it is very nice of you to give her a pass on account of her being allegedly mollested. But what she did on Oprah was unforgivable. Especially since she has never asked for forgiveness nor has she retracted her statements. She has endangered future Jewish generations. Neo-nazis frequently utilize clips of her appearance as part of their incitement. Jews will one day pay with their lives for what she said, yet her only response has been silence.

Furthermore, many (if not most) of the child abusers who you so detest on this site were themselves earlier victims. You sure don't seem to cut them any slack on account of what they endured. Why the inconsistancy?

[sam]

".that the number one cause for kids leaving yiddishkeit is sexual abuse."

Don't know whether you are saying that or are quoting another poster, but besides being absurd on its face, do you even have a nutcase source (e.g.Noam Chomsky) saying that? Please

[JewishButProud]

Bullshit. Just another underhanded cheap-shot at chareidim. use a nice chareidi name, throw in the religious family tidbit, along with a brief dis at the rabbi's son, and there you have it: Another way to put down Chareidim! Wow, what an evil, perverted imagination you have! And all your readers repeatedly get suckered in! Talk about manipulative!

[steve]

do you even have a nutcase source (e.g.Noam Chomsky) saying that?

Rabbi Yaakov Horowitz from Project Yes to name one. He deals with troubled teens on a daily basis. He should know. There are several others as well. Please.

[sam]

Shmarya, since you would know (since you say she's your friend) whether Vicki Polin has ever disavowed her Jewish/Murdering Babies/Cult/Oprah statements, would you please let us know - if yes, please have her publicly admit she made them up so she can undo some of the damage she has caused Jews; and if not, please never quote her again, since she's still a nutcase.

And regarding Oprah (who lots of sites point out has a little tinge of antisemitism about her), can you imagine her bringing a Lutheran or Muslim woman on to make similar unsubstantiated absurd claims about their religious group - no one who is not an anti semite would allow a Vicki Polin to appear on their show.

[BaltimoreYid]

Shlomo,
To answer your question as to getting my name put up in a shule vs helping these kids the answer is simple. I don't give money to ANY shule and I donate a considerable amount to charities which try to help these "street kids." I appreciate your question though.

[Shmarya]

Shmarya, since you would know (since you say she's your friend) whether Vicki Polin has ever disavowed her Jewish/Murdering Babies/Cult/Oprah statements, would you please let us know - if yes, please have her publicly admit she made them up so she can undo some of the damage she has caused Jews; and if not, please never quote her again, since she's still a nutcase.

Well, I see logic, facts and general mentchlikeit all escape you.

One last time. Read it slow and try to process:

It's not unusual for victims of child sexual abuse – especially if the abuse began when the child was very young and had any ritual components – to have issues like Vicki had 25 years ago when she was just coming to grips with it and ended up on Oprah.

That doesn't make what she does now, 25 years later, crazy.

She's a licensed therapist who specializes in child sexual abuse issues, and she knows what she's talking about.

She works with leading figures in law enforcement, psychology and treatment of abuse, all of who know about her background.

But they still work with her and they still respect her.

Further, if not for what Vicki has done over the past decade, there would be no movement to stop child sexual abuse in the Orthodox community, and for that she deserves our thanks and some respect.

In your infantile view of reality, Vicki must have intentionally "made up" the story she told on Oprah.

But, again, as any PROFESSIONAL who treats or deals with victims of child sexual abuse (especially ritual child sexual abuse) will tell you, the story Vicki told is not unusual.

If you were 5 years old and you were regularly raped by your father, and each time he raped you he made you drink tomato juice and told you it was mixed with the blood of your pet dog, who your father had killed before your eyes previously, you'd believe you drank the blood of your murdered pet. And, chances are, you'd still believe that 20 years later.

This type of ritual sexual abuse takes place.

What you are doing is writing off the victims of it as insane, rather than dealing with what that abuse actually does to kids.

A kid who is forced to drink what he's told is the blood of his dead pet is not insane because he believes he drank that blood.

In fact, what he's doing is accurately representing what happened to him.

And what you are doing is ridiculing him for doing that.

Got it?

[Shmarya]

".that the number one cause for kids leaving yiddishkeit is sexual abuse."

Don't know whether you are saying that or are quoting another poster, but besides being absurd on its face, do you even have a nutcase source (e.g.Noam Chomsky) saying that? Please

Funny. Every person I know of who deals with what you would call "off the derech" kids says that most of those kids have been sexually abused.

In the same way, something like 70% of street kids were sexually abused before leaving home.

Something that is common knowledge among the social workers, therapists, cops, and clergy who deal with these kids is dismissed by you with sarcasm.

Why?

Because in your mind, protecting the reputation of your community is more important than protecting kids.

That doesn't mean you support or encourage child sexual abuse.

But it does mean that you reject information that raises your level of cognitive dissonance.

[Louise]

I don't think Noam Chomsky is a nutcase. You might not agree with everything he says, but he's definitely not a nutcase.

[What kind of goyishe name is Harold?]

It's sad. I have no money or food or shelter. I live in a coffee shop. Is there anything someone like me can do to help?

[sam]

Shmarya, I actually do think you have a reading/perception problem. I don't doubt that most street kids have been sexually abused; the statement many of us objected to was that: the "number one cause for kids leaving yiddishkeit is sexual abuse". So every time we see an ex frumy we are to think they were sexually abused? Nonsense, and you know it.

And since you seem to specialize in personal attacks, as so often you are wrong: I am not orthodox, speak no Hebrew, and in fact was never Bar Mitvahed. So if I am trying to protect any "group" from your grotesque charges it's the secular.

And regarding Vicki, your several paragraphs boil down to she still believes she was part of a Jewish baby/murder cult. That being the case, her perception of reality is still so skewed that she isn't a good source for whether it's light or day. And if she's a respected member of the law enforcement/psyschological community, God help us all,

And Louise, you're right, Chomsky isn't a nutcase: he's an evil, calculating anti semite who uses his "as a jew" designation to destroying the Jewish people.

[Louise]

On human craziness in general and the importance of good childcare, which people are gradually evolving into:

http://www.psychohistory.com/index.html

[Louise]

Sam,

Since your mind is made up, there's no point discussing this. But I don't think Chomsky is an evil anti-Semite at all.

Would you say the same thing about Gideon Levy?

[Mr. Apikoros]

Is there any evidence whatsoever that Vicki Polin's parents are or were abusive in any way?

She has zero credibility as far as I'm concerned.

[Shmarya]

Shmarya, I actually do think you have a reading/perception problem. I don't doubt that most street kids have been sexually abused; the statement many of us objected to was that: the "number one cause for kids leaving yiddishkeit is sexual abuse". So every time we see an ex frumy we are to think they were sexually abused? Nonsense, and you know it.

Notice how you truncated my remarks to suit your response.

What I actually said is:Funny. Every person I know of who deals with what you would call "off the derech" kids says that most of those kids have been sexually abused.

In the same way, something like 70% of street kids were sexually abused before leaving home.

Something that is common knowledge among the social workers, therapists, cops, and clergy who deal with these kids is dismissed by you with sarcasm.So either you have a reading comprehension problem or you are dishonest.

And since you seem to specialize in personal attacks, as so often you are wrong: I am not orthodox, speak no Hebrew, and in fact was never Bar Mitvahed. So if I am trying to protect any "group" from your grotesque charges it's the secular.

I never said you were trying to protect the Orthodox.

What I wrote was this:Because in your mind, protecting the reputation of your community is more important than protecting kids.

That doesn't mean you support or encourage child sexual abuse.

But it does mean that you reject information that raises your level of cognitive dissonance.So your reading comprehension skills are quite low, or, perhaps, the cognitive dissonance is just too much for you.

And regarding Vicki, your several paragraphs boil down to she still believes she was part of a Jewish baby/murder cult. That being the case, her perception of reality is still so skewed that she isn't a good source for whether it's light or day. And if she's a respected member of the law enforcement/psyschological community, God help us all,

Again, you clearly do not understand what I wrote, even though what I wrote is clear.

The reason you hate Vicki is because of what she said on Oprah, and you hate what she said on Oprah because it makes YOUR COMMUNITY look bad.

Instead of blaming the people who sexually abused Vicki, you blame the victim of that abuse.

Past that, you have no way of knowing whether or not a baby was sacrificed.

Sadly, these things actually happen.

And a small child, told she is eating the flesh of a sacrificed infant, will easily believe it is true if what she is eating is something – like chicken meat or veal meat – that is similar to human flesh.

Past all this, victims of ritual sexual abuse takes years to heal.

Vicki's appearance on Oprah was a very long time ago, not long after she started therapy.

Why you assume she thinks the same things today and holds the same beliefs today, about 25 years later and after a lot of therapy and her own professional studies is, quite frankly, bizarre.

And why you think a victim of ritual child sexual abuse is obligated to apologize for beliefs instilled in her through that sexual abuse is beyond me.

Notice that you and others who attack Vicki never attack the people who abused her.

If anything, you owe victims of child sexual abuse an apology.

After all, you were not abused. Your unsupported beliefs come not from sexual abuse but from your desire to protect your community from "grotesque charges" you don't even begin to understand.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Sam, we agree on two things:

1. Vicki Polin has zero credibility.

2. Noam Chomsky is an anti-Semitic SOB.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Why should I believe Vicki Polin's bullshit about how she is descended from a long line of cannibals any more than I should believe the bullshit propagated by Christian clerics (and others) during the Middle Ages that Jews kill Christian babies during Passover and drink their blood?

BTW, I'm descended from a long line of vampires.

[sam]

Since Api and I now agree on two things, an absolute first, I'm laying off posting for a while to savour the experience.

[Shmarya]

Since Api and I now agree on two things, an absolute first, I'm laying off posting for a while to savour the experience.

Posted by: sam | October 20, 2010 at 02:23 PM

You're "laying off posting" because you cannot answer or deal with what I wrote.

[Louise]

Golly, this is like listening to some Catholics deny that the holy fathers could have done anything wrong. Blame the victim, blame the victim, blame the victim, if it's Polin or an altar boy.

No one knows what Polin may have eaten decades ago, but you think she fabricated the entire story of her abuse?

I'll watch for you at the door on Halloween, Mr. Apikoros.

[Just Saying]

There is a wonderful Chabad treatment center in LA. Unfortunately it doesn't treat women. More needs to be done and everyone is responsible. I suffer from the disease of addiction and I am 5 years in recovery. Chabad saved my life. The problem in the community is huge and no one seems to want to deal with it sufficiently. Very sad considering how resourceful the community can be.

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

You're buying into their BS and you're ignoring the good Vicki has done.

I really do not really care about what friends of Hershy Worsch said or done, I do care about what Vicky Polin has said and done. Maybe the her appearance on the Oprah show was 20+ years ago but even now she still stands (as of 2007!) behind what she said then. She never apologized !

According to Vicky, she is self confess murderer and cannibal and should not have have anything to do with social work and therapy. She should open a center to hunt down baby eaters, expose the CIA involvement in eating babies and leave sexual abuse issues to normal professionals.

Check the Luke Ford expose on her, how she took advantage on people and swindled them in addition to eating babies.

http://www.lukeford.net/profiles/profiles/vicki_polin.htm

Would you say that Luke is a friend Hershy Worsch as well ? I remember Vicky accusing him of hypnotizing women and making them have sex with him which I do not think is possible. If true, Worsch would be making billions of dollar teaching how-to

[Moshe aron kestenbaum, Williamsburg ODA]

Shmarya BE STRONG . YOUR POINT IS WELL TAKEN, It is as always BLAME THE VICTIM.Always blame the victims - it's a tried and true strategy.The victim is the one who is bad. The victim is the one to blame. ... It's always the same old story, an ancient story. i am sick of that already. The concept that a victim can always consciously choose how to proceed is flawed.

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

Notice that you and others who attack Vicki never attack the people who abused her.

Yes, I will attak the afther if she had five abortions as result of him having sex with her.

I will attack the rabbi and the gabbai and board of the synagogue in Chicago where she was raped on torah scrolls.

I will attack the people who forced her to eat babies.

You are doing holy work Shmarya, it degrades your work, you associating with Vicky.

I told the same to the holy UOJ and to the Tzadik Tamim rav Blau.

[UnProfessor]

Shmarya said:

"Sadly, these things actually happen.

And a small child, told she is eating the flesh of a sacrificed infant, will easily believe it is true if what she is eating is something – like chicken meat or veal meat – that is similar to human flesh.

Past all this, victims of ritual sexual abuse takes years to heal.

Vicki's appearance on Oprah was a very long time ago, not long after she started therapy."

Do you mean to say you actually believe her? You're the first person I ever heard of who believes that she believed what she said on Opera. I mean you must concede that at least some of what she said on Opera was false; therefore it calls her credibility into serious question.

If some of what she said was untruthful, then she should "man up to it" and publicly say she lied, and then she can attempt to regain respect; but until she does so she remains someone who lied about something "some Jews" do in front of millions of people.

Shmarya, why do you think she has credibility without ever apologizing, no matter how log ago it was or how messed up she was?

[UnProfessor]

I'm not sure who it is with the great imagination, if it's Shmarya, or this woman, but I sure don't believe this story to be anything more than a cute, agenda-driven, fairytale.

Why?

I confirmed it with a street outreach worker who knows her.

Posted by: Shmarya

And people involved in organizations and outreach are never known to make up or exaggerate cases to promote their agendas?!

[SL]

gutskeit is besser fun frumkeit

[Shmarya]

Do you mean to say you actually believe her? You're the first person I ever heard of who believes that she believed what she said on Opera. I mean you must concede that at least some of what she said on Opera was false; therefore it calls her credibility into serious question.

I don't have any information that says she knew anything she said then was false.

And, as I've said repeatedly, victims of child sexual abuse with a ritual component generally believe what they are told by their abusers.

Yet, even though that is true, people like you continue to blame the victim, not the abusers.

Further, you don't show any sympathy for Vicki and you assume – without a shred of evidence to support that assumption – that Vicki intentionally lied.

And that says a lot about your honesty and about your motives.

[Shmarya]

And people involved in organizations and outreach are never known to make up or exaggerate cases to promote their agendas?!

The difference between me and you is I don't accuse people of lying without facts to back it up.

I spent a lot of time talking to the girl and found her to be honest. Her story never changed.

And the street worker's story has also remained constant.

Past that, as anyone familiar with LA's street kids knows, the only unusual thing about Shoshana's story is that she's alive, well and functioning. Most of her peers are dead, totally screwed up or in jail.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Was there ever a police investigation launched into Polin's claims that she was sexually abused by her parents? I don't believe there was. You'd think with such sensational claims as those Polin made on Oprah in 1989, the cops would have launched one if there was even a shred of evidence that any of Polin's story was real.

I remember, all too well, the McMartin case in Manhattan Beach, in which bogus psychologists, social workers, and so-called "advocates" not to mention prosecutors conducted a witchhunt which put anything in Salem, Massachusetts to shame.

There was Vicki, posting under a variety of aliases such as "Vicki Polin is a hero," defending the witchhunters.

People such as Vicki should be relegated to the same ash heap of history that Tailgunner Joe McCarthy was eventually relegated to.

[harold]

People such as Vicki should be relegated to the same ash heap of history that Tailgunner Joe McCarthy was eventually relegated to.

Careful, for all we know she may be anointed as our next "Jewish Hero".

[Forty Eighter]

Furthermore, many (if not most) of the child abusers who you so detest on this site were themselves earlier victims. You sure don't seem to cut them any slack on account of what they endured. Why the inconsistency?

Shmarya, with all the debating going back and forth you have still not addressed my very logical question. Why is it that you give Vicki Polin a lifetime carte-blanche on account of the alleged abuse she once suffered, while on this very same forum you have pilloried many other transgressors, although it is well known that they were also previously victimized.

Lebowitz and the Taliban-Mom come immediately to mind. I am sure there have been others.

The only distinction I can make is that these individuals had a limited number of victims, while Polin screwed the entire community, including all future generations.

I think that the real issue is that you do not fully grasp the damage Polin has done with her antics. And by keeping silent she is perpetuating her sin. I also think that you are blinded by your singular hate for the orthodox.

[Achdus]

What an achdus (unity) ? commentators from all sides of the spectrum (The charedi, the Apikoros, the slayer, the Modern Orthodox, etc ) are all united in believing that Vicki is a douche bag.

See, when Jews at whole are attacked and slandered we are all one.

[Shmarya]

See, when Jews at whole are attacked and slandered we are all one.

Actually, that's hardly true.

And, most of the time, there is no slander. It's just inconvenient truth that people like you can't stand.

In this case, that truth is just as I wrote above.

[Shmarya]

Shmarya, with all the debating going back and forth you have still not addressed my very logical question. Why is it that you give Vicki Polin a lifetime carte-blanche on account of the alleged abuse she once suffered, while on this very same forum you have pilloried many other transgressors, although it is well known that they were also previously victimized.

Lebowitz and the Taliban-Mom come immediately to mind. I am sure there have been others.

The only distinction I can make is that these individuals had a limited number of victims, while Polin screwed the entire community, including all future generations.

I love this. You compare a victim who says that as a child she was forced to eat human flesh with a person who sexually abused dozens of boys and a mother who tortured and almost killed her own child.

Are you nuts?

If Lebovits had gone on Oprah 20 years ago and said my rabbis sexually abused me, people like you would have pilloried him, just the way you pillory Vicki.

But Lebovits did not do that.

Instead, Lebovits kept the code of silence your community is known for. And he sodomized dozens of boys while he was doing it.

It takes a truly sick mind to equate what Vicki did with th eevil of Baruch Lebovits.

I think that the real issue is that you do not fully grasp the damage Polin has done with her antics. And by keeping silent she is perpetuating her sin. I also think that you are blinded by your singular hate for the orthodox.

Yup. More than 20 years ago she claimed on Oprah that as a child she was forced to eat the flesh of a sacrificed baby.

The "damage" done from that is still reverberating through the American Jewish community. Why, look at all the Jews lynched for baby sacrifice and related blood libels! [/end heavy sarcasm]

And, just to help you out, process this:

The people who have kept that Oprah appearance alive and public are not Oprah or Vicki or any of their assistants or friends.

The people who kept it alive are the friends of an admitted sexual predator, a rabbi who preys on his female students and congregants.

They do it to smear Vicki, who is the person chiefly responsible for outing that creep.

And then people like you, people who have, it seems, little moral compass and even fewer moral faculties, spread it even further.

But you're not mad at those people.

You're mad at a victim of child sexual abuse.

Blame Worsch's friends. Blame the people who abused Vicki.

But don't blame a victim for believing what she was told, over and over and over again, from the time she was a small child, by the people who raped her.

[Mr. Apikoros]

If Vicki Polin had gone on national TV and said her rabbi abused her, I'd be inclined to believe her. Or at least, not dismiss her allegation out of hand.

But she went on national TV and made an allegation which is ludicrous on its face. Add to that the fact that nobody in law enforcement investigated this -- to the best of my knowledge -- and I dismiss her allegations out of hand.

Then, she makes up a story (or hypes a story) that a well-known scholar abused her. If there were any truth to that, do you really believe the man would be allowed to get away with a conditional discharge and $55 court costs? It's pretty obvious that Polin wanted a trial, which would be extremely expensive for the alleged "perp," and this deal was a way of mollifying both sides with minimal damage to the "perp."

Once again, I ask, where is any proof that Vicki Polin was sexually molested by her parents?

People who cry "wolf" like Vicki Polin do a real disserve to real victims of spousal, parental, and clerical abuse.

[Shmarya]

But she went on national TV and made an allegation which is ludicrous on its face.

You see, that's your problem.

You really don't know what happened and you certainly have repeatedly shown that you do not understand the pathology of abuse, yet you judge what she said anyway.

That says a lot about you.

Then, she makes up a story (or hypes a story) that a well-known scholar abused her. If there were any truth to that, do you really believe the man would be allowed to get away with a conditional discharge and $55 court costs?

I recall that you claimed several times to have the transcripts of the trial, when in reality no transcripts actually existed. Then, after I challenged you several times, you admitted that you ordered the recordings of the trial. And You promised to share them with me. But you never did.

A judge found Vicki credible. The man who assaulted her was given a conditional sentence. If he complied with the court's orders for a period of time, he could then apply to have his conviction vacated.

This is something very common for first time offenders whose assaults were "minor," meaning there was no groping of sexual the organ or penetration or exposure.

Once again, I ask, where is any proof that Vicki Polin was sexually molested by her parents?

What proof does any child have that they were abused?

If penetration is involved, there is evidence of that, but if not, what proof is there other than the child's word and circumstantial evidence forensic investigators may be able to gather to support it.

But in your twisted little world, anyone who says they were abused but who doesn't a police investigation and trial to prove it, is lying.

Besides what this says about your mind, what you you are doing is ignoring things like statutes of limitations, the pathology of sexual abuse that keeps most victims from coming forward, often for years(and which is documented in medical literature), and other factors that you seem wholly unable to grasp.

Where's the proof you won 2 BMWs?

Why should we accept what you say on your word alone, especially when you post under a fictitious name?

You've been inaccurate about other things and you certainly have serious anger issues, all signs that you may be overstating your personal automotive inventory.

Very few people can afford to own 2 late model BMWs, after all. It would be exceedingly rare for you to own 2.

So why should we believe you?

Shouldn't we believe that you are lying?

That's the logic you're using against Vicki but with one important difference.

Vicki has the guts to use her real name and image.

You don't.

[Forty Eighter]

Shmarya, you know very well that overt persocution of Jews comes around in cycles. It is only a question of time. If you were to research the internet for the Neo-Nazi/Islamofacist groups who are destined to perpetrate this upcoming calamity you would see that Vicki's claims features prominent on their sites. To me that computes as Vicky having a hand in the actual spilling of Jewish blood.

If she would at least publicly disavow her claims, those ludicrous claims could be countered. But that would be too inconvenient for Ms Polin and her cause. So as the record now stands, there is an admition by a Jew that there exists a baby-killing jewish subculture with no counter proof. Thank you Vicky.

You keep refering to the "pathology of abuse". Let me debunk some of your ignorant beliefs. A preponderance of the latest scholarly literature on the subject suggests that "Multiple Personality Disorder" and "Repressed Memories" are NOT results of abuse. If such conditions exist at all, they are imbedded by so-called "therapists". (Look it up, you've got planty of time.) On the other hand, there is proof that the "pathology of abuse" does include the fact that abused very often become abusers.

So I ask you again, why does Vicky get a COMPLETE pass (you idolize her), even though she is perpetuating her harm, while creeps like Lebowitz (who I detest) don't even get an inch of slack.

For the record, Lebowitz did not sodomize anyone. He got 32 years for giving a BJ to a consenting 16 year old degenerate whore, who would F his mother for use of a car or some drug-money. I know the guy.

So while Lebowitz is paying a heavy price for a few moment of private indescretion, Vicky Polin is a candidate for Folk-Hero.

Can you even understand why I would be preplexed?

[Mr. Apikoros]

Shmuckya:

There's a reason why people don't use their real names here. As you have incorrectly claimed, one can defame a screen name and the screen name has no standing to sue for libel, slander, or defamation.

You have also posted here that you would not reveal a poster's info, and in fact have kicked out a poster (Archie Bunker) for outing another poster.

So if you post my real name, or other identifying info about me, you'll lose your perceived right to slander me since I'm using an alias.

As you've called me a Nazi, implied I'm a child molester, and have falsely called me a liar on this and many other occasions, if you out me, I'll have your ass in court on libel and defamation charges, quicker than the faster of my two Bimmers can do a quarter-mile from a standing stop (that's about 13 seconds and change).

I will mail you my three NJ auto registration cards with my name and other identifying info redacted (other than the VIN numbers) if you promise, right here, not to use this information (the VIN or any other info) publicly in any way shape or form other than to post that these are Mr. Apikoros' three vehicles.

BTW, the third vehicle is a 2002 Lexus RX300 SUV which I bought last summer for $12,000. A virtual steal at a time when used cars were undervalued, like just about every other asset.

You, Shmuckya, are a petty and vindictive LITTLE man.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Another thing:

If you start outing people, it'll have a chilling effect on any other poster, especially those who have the guts to stand up to you.

With your readership gone, you might just have to get a real job.

[Mr. Apikoros]

C'mon Shmarya. Copies of the registration cards are in a stamped envelope, ready to be mailed. All I need is your agreement not to use the info to out me. If I get this today, you should have the stuff by Monday the latest.

[Isa]

Do you know why my daughter didn't suffer any effect of some sicko abuser??

Because I SCREAMED at the top of my voice
"LEAVE HER ALONE!!" when it first happened!

The abuser was mild mannered doctor [later i found he lost his license because of issues with females patients]
this asshole was a true jeckle hyde creep

My daughter owns two shotguns and knows how to use them

[shmarya needs some love]

Shmarya, you havnt had any in many years, your frustration is just to much to handle

[JewishButProud]

Shmarya isn't looking cool no more, is he? His stuff stinks. I love reading it for laughs. It's like reading National Enquirer- only the greatest believe that a real live alien washed up in NY...

[Mr. Apikoros]

We should take up a collection. Maybe Ashley Dupre would be available for the right price.

[Louise]

Why are you making a joke out of child abuse? What is the matter with you?

I guess if "it's bad for the Jews," it never happened?

You think Ms. Polin made it all up? Or you think she's lying because she said she was forced to eat an infant? You're angry at her because she never retracted that statement?

I don't know about dining on infants, but really horrendous stuff happens, and you're all here getting laughs out of it. Sickening!

http://naffoundation.org/About_NAFF.htm

[Forty Eighter]

Shmarya, your article itself was pretty benign, but a human interest story nontheless. I think it highlighted the plight of dysfunctional white-trash families in general, rather than a particular Jewish angle. It would have been an interesting read. But you had to go and contaminate the entire thing by interjecting Polin into it. Anyone who has looked into her background would classify her as a certified crackpot. Certainly not someone who would add credibilty to a controversial article.

BTW, Polin has done virtually nothing to aliviate the plight of abused children. I followed her site for many years. It was (and is) a disorganized bungled mess of articles. She mixes genuine credible cases alongside rumor and proven falsehoods. The only thing she has managed to do is stir up controversy and provided cover for molesters who can point to her past in an effort to discredit her and her cause. Nochem Rosenberg, as loony as he is, is the sole reason these issues have come to prominence in the orthodox community. I am sure that Vicky is dying of jealosy that Rosenberg has been able to accomplish in months what she tried for years, and without the need to fundraise.

No matter what happened in her past, Vicky must be sidelined because she is a dangerous loose canon. People like her and Kal Holcler hurt the cause more than they help it.

[Shmarya]

I don't know about dining on infants, but really horrendous stuff happens, and you're all here getting laughs out of it. Sickening!

Unfortunately, this type of behavior is common across the haredi and former haredi world. And you'll notice the facts don't matter to them at all.

Neither does the plight of street kids, even though many are former haredim, or homeless Jews.

All in all, it's a very sick community that produces very sick people.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Communism was a big problem in the U.S. State Department during World War II and its aftermath. Alger Hiss, who was probably the No. 3 man in the Roosevelt Administration during its third and fourth terms, was a communist and a spy, and singlehandedly responsible for the Evil Empire spreading its tentacles into Eastern Europe. KGB files released after Glastnost proved that.

But does that mean Tailgunner Joe McCarthy had the right to label people communists and fellow travelers, and ruin their careers and lives, without any evidence?

Same applies to Vicky Polin.

BTW, I'm a red diaper baby. McCarthy never did catch up to my mother, who cried when Stalin died. (I was a small child, aged 5, at the time and remember it well; I thought it was Grandma or Grandpa who had passed.) BTW, my mother was also a big fan of Alger Hiss, and believed in his innocence right up until her dying day, which occured well after the breakup of the USSR.

[Shmarya]

So while Lebowitz is paying a heavy price for a few moment of private indescretion, Vicky Polin is a candidate for Folk-Hero.

There are literally dozens of Lebovits victims. Ssome spoke to prosecutors but most have pased the statute of limitations.

Lebovits is a sexual abuser. Period. End of story.

As for what you write about that victim, I suppose in all your "research" into sexual abuse you missed the part about drug abuse.

You see, asshole, victims often self medicate, be that with cocaine, heroin, prescription meds or booze.

And then what happens is that creeps like you come along and say, "Look at this kid! He's a drug addict! You can't trust him!"

Sometimes I wish God would make assholes like you suffer the way these kids suffer.

[Snuffaluffagus]

I wonder what Scott would do if sex abuse would cease to exist? He sits at his computer all day blogging and reporting about stories to publicize in order to earn his living from his website and argues about many issues that affect Jews and how there should be more done to address the issues. He does not go out to help and say for example, setup a house for street kids as suggested in his article. He just sits comfortably at his computer publicizing the issues while watching his income odometer increase and telling everyone else to help. Scott, maybe you should get off your lazy behind and be proactive instead of manipulating the news to make money.

[Mr. Apikoros]

BTW, Louise, my mother was at the time a high school science (biology) teacher at Bryant High School in Astoria, the alma mater of Brooklyn Dodger pitcher Billy Loes, who famously lost a ground ball in the sun. This was before the UFT, and before teachers got tenure. Thus, she was extremely vulnerable to this kind of allegation.

My mom later went back to school, got her Ph.D. from Columbia, and became a molecular biologist of note and tenured professor at Cornell.

[Shmarya]

Scott, maybe you should get off your lazy behind and be proactive instead of manipulating the news to make money.

Maybe you should pull your tiny head out of your very large behind.

But then you'd actually have to see, and that would be so very painful for you.

[Snuffaluffagus]

Is it just me or does it appear that Scott does not handle opposing views too well? Sounds like a low self-esteem issue there.

[Mr. Apikoros]

So anybody who is a drug addict, alcoholic, or criminal was abused as a child, and that's why they're drug addicts, alcoholics, and criminals. Nobody can take individual responsibility for their behavior. Blame it all on Mom and Dad, and especially, the rabbi or priest.

Bill Clinton was the product of an abusive home, as was Hillary (to a much lesser degree). Seems as though they did OK for themselves, Bill's rather large libido nonwithstanding.

[Shmarya]

Is it just me or does it appear that Scott does not handle opposing views too well? Sounds like a low self-esteem issue there.

Could be. Or maybe it's just that I don't tolerate idiots well.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Scott does indeed have a problem with dissenting views, and even with folks who agree with him much of the time like myself.

That's why I enjoy hocking his chiynik.

[Shmarya]

So anybody who is a drug addict, alcoholic, or criminal was abused as a child, and that's why they're drug addicts, alcoholics, and criminals. Nobody can take individual responsibility for their behavior. Blame it all on Mom and Dad, and especially, the rabbi or priest.

Are you taking some type of idiocy pill?

I realize facts are often problematic for your worldview, but here's how it works.

Abused kids often do self-destructive things to punish themselves for the abuse.

Self-mutilation, for example, is very common.

Abused kids also try to kill the pain from the abuse by self-medicating.

All drug addicts are not abuse victims but many abuse victims are drug or alcohol abusers.

[Louise]

This whole conversation shifted from child abuse to the creditability of Polin.

I wish some of you who think it's some kind of joke would read from the links I posted, read Lloyd DeMause, Alice Miller, Hal Pepinsky and others to get some awareness of how much child abuse screws up not only individual relationships and lives, but the whole world.

BTW, while I'm not a psychoanalyst, I don't think Bill Clinton's a very admirable example of humanity.

Mr. Vampire, good for your mother. Did she know Nicholas Miraculous?

[Mr. Apikoros]

I'll take Slick Willie over most, including the incumbent, who, despite the heat he's getting is doing a good job. And I'll take Hillary over the Slickmeister.

But you're right. Child abuse is a very serious matter, which is why the so-called "experts" on repressed memories and other such bubameisas degrade and diminish the problem.

Look at what happened with Rabbi Bryan Bramly.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Louise, my mother's professional career as a molecular biologist spanned the period 1965 - 1990, when she retired. As Nicolas Butler lived during the early part of the 20th Century, they weren't acquainted.

Nice try, though.

[Mr. Apikoros]

@Scotty:

No, I'm not taking idiocy pills, which I'd need to be an idiot.

You, on the other hand, are a complete idiot without any pharmacological help.

[Louise]

Mr. Vampire,

If you think Shmarya is a complete idiot, why do you visit here so often? You're not an idiot but are attracted to idiocy? Want to have an insult fest? Some people might suspect you of being an idiotic, gas-guzzling car pig.

You said you were a red diaper baby, so your mum could have known Butler. I can't imagine why she cried when Stalin died.

Well, these digressions aren't helping us solve child abuse, which is serious. Joining nospank might be a start:

http://www.nospank.net/

[Louise]

Sometimes I wish God would make assholes like you suffer the way these kids suffer.

Shmarya,

That reminds me of Christopher Hitchens once saying that he was sorry there was no hell.

[ruthie]

people stay focused.
there are kids on the street now.
it's dark, getting cold....and they may have to do things that they wouldn't do so they can have money to eat and crash somewhere for another day or week.

shmarya...can't we kick rabbi horowitz out of community outreach in monsey....he's such a thief...steals millions from albany...teaches the hasidim how to cheat on social services...BIG TIME.
i would love to take over his office and open it for homeless kids.
i want all the homeless kids to come to monsey, to a center...then we'll see how much this community will help. some will for sure...the others? not so sure...they're too busy eating, filling out their social services forms, making babies, talking loshen hora...gee, i hope they're enjoying the sex.
pardon to anyone who may need social services or even think they may need it...
i'm just focusing on the RICH RICH RICH hasidim who cheat...yes, yes, you know who you are!!!!

[harold]

Well, these digressions aren't helping us solve child abuse, which is serious

It most certainly is serious, very serious; children are our most precious belongings – but “us”? We, as in FaledMessianites solve the vexing problem of child abuse – us? We are nobodies hiding behind handles, a disconnected brood linked by TCP/IP packets somewhere in the web cloud.

The best that we can do is to first of all is to protect our own very precious children, keep open lines of communication, be aware where they are, who they see and hang out with, keep a sharp eye for any changes in temperament. When attending children events, make mental notes of people who look like they don’t belong. An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. Police, shelters, Federation, Covenant House and the like are treatments after the fact and are not solutions to child abuse.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Louise:

You obviously don't know a whole lot about cars. BMWs get excellent gas mileage, about 24 mpg overall (not what is says on the sticker, what I actually get). The Lexus gets 21, excellent for an SUV. BMWs get superior gas mileage when compared to a Toyota Camry, and are much better cars.

Shmarya is an idiot because he's (1) threatened to kick my butt, something very few have been able to do in the past, (2) accused me of lying about my BMWs, and when I called his bluff, and put copies of my car registrations in the mail, ready to send, as of yet, he hasn't responded to a very simple request, which I require of him before I drop the letter in the mailbox. I guess he was raised by Frank Perdue.

I view my function here as gadfly, keeping everyone honest. Shmarya is hardly the only recipient of my righteous wrath.

See you this Halloween,

Mr. A.

[Louise]

On Marshall Rosenberg's Nonviolent Communication:

http://www.cnvc.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ-fUVM4Dos

And Mitch Hall:

http://web.me.com/breathepeacefully/Breathe_Peacefully/Welcome.html

http://web.me.com/breathepeacefully/Breathe_Peacefully/Interview_by_Norm_Lee.html

[Louise]

Oh, Mr. Vampire. He didn't accuse you of lying. He was just using that to illustrate his point.

Okay, good mileage, but why do you need three (3) cars?

I doubt if we'll meet on Halloween. I think you're on the Left Coast. I'm on the other one.