Orthodox Woman Texting While Driving Rams Man On Scooter, Leaves Him Brain Dead, Refuses To Apologize

The 53-year-old deliveryman was stopped at a red light near East 17th Street when he was rear-ended, police said. The impact sent the father of three flying. He suffered severe head trauma and was rushed to Kings County Hospital, where he was declared brain dead, authorities said.

Texting horror
Distracted driver mows down man: cops

By LORENA MONGELLI and CHRISTINA CARREGA • New York Post

A dopey young Brooklyn woman who was texting while driving crashed into a scooter-riding deliveryman, leaving him clinging to life, police said yesterday.

Nechama Rothberger, 19, was driving a 2005 Toyota Camry on Avenue P in Midwood at 11:30 Sunday night when she plowed into Tian Sheng Lin, authorities said.

The 53-year-old deliveryman was stopped at a red light near East 17th Street when he was rear-ended, police said.

The impact sent the father of three flying.

He suffered severe head trauma and was rushed to Kings County Hospital, where he was declared brain dead, authorities said.

"My dad did everything for his family. He always took care of us," said his heartbroken 19-year-old daughter, Anna.

The victim works at Best China Restaurant, located a few blocks from the accident scene.

Police charged Rothberger with misdemeanor reckless driving and using a mobile phone while driving.

At her arraignment last night, prosecutors said cops found her cellphone in the car with a half-written outgoing message.

Rothberger's lawyer, Lee Kimmel, said his client "didn't hit him intentionally. It was merely an accident."

The teen's mom paid the $5,000 cash bail.

Both Rothberger and her mom declined to say if she was sorry as they left Brooklyn Criminal Court. But Kimmel said, "Of course she's sorry."

Then, asked by reporters -- unaware of the brain-death declaration -- if Rothberger planned to visit Lin in the hospital, Kimmel said she'd send a letter.

The accident was the latest in a series of smash-ups that law-enforcement officials have blamed on texting while driving.

A study last year by the Virginia Tech Transportation Institute found that drivers who text are 23 times likelier to crash or come close to having an accident than non-texters.

In November, New York passed a law that set fines of up to $150 for those caught texting while driving.

But under the law, the fines can be imposed only for texting as a secondary offense -- that is, if the driver breaks another law while texting.

The woman should be charged with manslaughter if Tian Sheng Lin is taken off life support and passes away.

Unfortunately for his family, Nechama Rothberger is an adult. It is unlikely she has much in the way of personal assets, and I think it will will be very difficult if not impossible to sue her parents – unless the car belonged to them and Nechama Rothberger has a previous history of reckless driving.

[Hat Tip: CS.]

Comments

[harold]

Refuses To Apologize

You have got to be kidding. I did not get that impression from the article.

Both Rothberger and her mom declined to say if she was sorry as they left Brooklyn Criminal Court. But Kimmel said, "Of course she's sorry."

Again Of course she's sorry

She said nothing because that is what lawyers tell their clients - don't say anything - especially to the vermin - "the media". I am sure that if they would be face to face alone with the victim’s family they would say that they are sorry - common sense! I am sure if the scum media would ask "is it day or night" they would say nothing. Declining to say is NOT the same as refusing to say!

[Garnel Ironheart]

Even if she didn't say "sorry", so what? How is this specifically a religious Jewish problem? You think other groups don't text and cause accidents and then refuse to apologize? If it's true that she has no remorse, it has nothing to do with her being Jewish and everything to do with her being a jerk which, unfortunately, is not a uniquely frum problem.
Besides, we all know that even if she had openly screamed sorry, you would have just adjust the headline to "She didn't apologize... enough"

[D S Esq.]

Shmarya what's the point of you posting this? Would it have made it to your site had the young lady not been an Orthodox Jew?

[Helen]

Oh come on she is a teenager She was just listening to what her lawyer told her to say. I always yell at my kids not to text and drive. It is not just a Hareidi problem.

[D S Esq.]

Helen, on this blog, if a chareidi Jew breaks wind, they are all environmental criminals.

[rabbidw]

How do you know that she is orthodox?

[Esther]

DS esq: are you Daniel schwartz who worked for Abe konstam?

[Catcher50]

This piece was unnecessary in this blog. A couple of things:

1. I assume that your last para had to do with a civil suit from the family of the delivery driver. Her lack of personal assets is, in all likelihood irrelevant. The financial piece would be paid by her (or her parent's) insurance company.

2. This piece absolutely belongs with publicity about the dangers of texting while driving. Maybe it should be brought up while discussing the police not doing their job (yeah, I know, they should not be bothering red light runners or those "only" going 15mph over the limit) and hauling in minor offenders instead of catching murderers. Tell it to Lin's family.

[WoolSilkCotton]

When you get in legal trouble, you should keep your mouth shut. You don't make contact with the other party or their family.
Keep away from cameras and microphones.
Do what your lawyer says. Let him do all the talking.

There are serious legal charges here, and probable civil suits. I would give my kids the same advice.

You can comment all you want that she's a dopey kid who did a stupid thing that ended up causing a terrible accident, but it doesn't change the fact that for the time being, she and her family need to keep their mouths shut and stay away from cameras and microphones, and away from the victim's family.

[mkarpas]

Shmarya knows the that the texting girl is Orthodox the same way a doctor put down on a medical hstory form that I was circunsized without asking me or checking to see if i were.

[who knows]

According to CNN news report about 5405 people have been killed last year by the people who were texting or talking on cell phone while driving. Many more were injured or left crippled or brain dead.

Most people who made those accedents are between ages 20 - 30 according to the same report.

What is special about this case that it needs to be posted?

[jewishwhistleblower]

Stop the needless attacking of the messenger.

The texting girl has an uncommon name. I believe I've seen her posts on the onlysimchas website and it appears at first glance that it is the same person. Therefore she is as Orthodox as any frum drunk driver. Here is an example of one of her posts which I've edited out the names:
Posted By Nechama Rothberger (15-Jan-09) wow. i really hope their isn't some curious (deleted) out there looking to see who has the same name as him and coming across this odd page...then again os is such a girl thing and i don't think (deleted) is such a common name (sry to the curious zimbabwean (deleted) who was curious to know who has the same name as her.) well it seems that 208 has a lot of fun in fam liv...maybe we should invite mrs. (deleted) to get a look at this thing...or maybe none of us wanna face reality and study cause senior kallah is too scary a concept (even tho we already had a junior one lol) well (deleted), as i always say "eggs in one basket, dear" lol mazel tov!!!!!

There isn't a frum criminal that DBS Esq. won't defend and a messenger he won't attack. This is the same guy who does work with alleged pedophile Rabbi Ephraim Bryks in dinei Torah and publicly defends Bryks.

[PulpitRabbi]

Texting while driving is a grave error of judgement, and can indeed kill. But I want to highlight a totally different point.

Several commenters point out how people often don't apologize or take responsibility because of legal advise not to make any statements. This makes our society, especially but not only in the US, an increasingly interpersonally harsh society. That, too, is a negative externality of the sue-happy lawyers.

Shouldn't we desire tort reform to allow society to become more civil once again?

[jewishwhistleblower]

My sources are familiar with a case of a mentally challeged man that was beaten into a coma by a gang of Jewish youths with baseball-bats for fun (they weren't Orthodox youth since that's your normal concern DBS Esq.). The victim was in a coma shortly over a year before he died and accordingly they couldn't be charged with murder or manslaughter. I suspect that could be the case here as well if Mr. Lin remains on life support.

[Mr. Apikoros]

I despise the ultra-Orthodox, and all that they stand for.

Nevertheless, this headline was a cheap shot. The fact she may be an Orthodox Jew is immaterial and irrelevant to what happened.

[effie]

JWB: The victim Mr. Lin, has been pronounced brain dead - not in a coma. If he hasn't been disconnected from life support already, he soon will be. The driver should then be charged with manslaughter.

[effie]

So, when an entire community starts screaming anti-semitism after she is re-arraigned on manslaughter, then will the fact that she is orthodox be relevant?

[Schneur]

Orthodox schools and their media ought to stress basic "derech eretz" and obeying the law. Yes this is not an Orthodox problem , but after all what does the Torah say about accidental murder ? Do the elders of the nearest town to the site need to bring this to their attention? I wonder if 1 charedi rabbi in Brooklyn will talk about obeying traffic laws in the 6 days of holidays that is coming up. I would like to be wrong on this one.Killing someone even if by accident without any intention is not just a matter of "mah becach"!

[Shmarya]

Nevertheless, this headline was a cheap shot. The fact she may be an Orthodox Jew is immaterial and irrelevant to what happened.

She would not apologize for an accident that is apparently 100% her fault.

She and her family seemed to show little, if any, concern for Mr. Lin and his family.

The Rothbergers are Orthodox. They have identifiable Jewish names.

Don't you think she and her family bear some responsibility, if not out of basic human decency then out of preventing or minimizing chillul Hashem, to act like mentchen?

[WoolSilkCotton]

++ Shmarya | September 21, 2010 at 10:25 AM ++

Wrong. When you are in serious legal trouble, you keep your mouth shut. Period.

You will only make things worse for yourself at trial by issuing apologies and admissions now.

Yeah, it's a very uncomfortable position to be in, but that's what you have to do right now.

[the usual chaim]

pulpit rabbi - you are confusing 2 totally different issues: sentiment and law. should there be tort reform? yes. does this have anything to do with sentimentality? no. governmental systems should exist to promote justice, not sentimentality. go to a rabbi or some other role model for that.

shmarya - i cant believe you said this: "The Rothbergers are Orthodox. They have identifiable Jewish names." I generally take you for a clear thinking and honest person. Jewish name does not equal orthodox. there are many many jews in brooklyn that are not orthodox. you can speculate, but i think its a very weak speculation.

beyond that - again, the sentiment of regret is totally meaningless. she killed a man. if she or her family want to do something meaningful they could offer to replace his income for a while. people spend so much time worrying about feelings and justice suffers

[Monsey Hocker]

Who is this D B Esq aka the bonesmuggler? This is Shmarya's blog and he can damn well post whatever he wants. This isn't some faygetty blog like matzav or a front for nambla porn like yeshivaworld. If you want edited news that paints all yiddin as saints because you are too timid to handle the truth, go to those sites. If you wake up and start your brochos with Baruch Ata Rubashkin then go back to trolling those sites - here you get the emes baby.

As for this article - wow, what a shock - some yenta frumock kills a guy because she is purely reckless and doesn't give a damn. Shocker. Look where she grew up. This news is slightly less enlightening then telling us that ice freezes at 32 degrees.

[harold]

Several commenters point out how people often don't apologize or take responsibility because of legal advise not to make any statements. This makes our society, especially but not only in the US, an increasingly interpersonally harsh society. That, too, is a negative externality of the sue-happy lawyers.

Remember, the "Almighty Press" was upset that she did not apologize to THEM on camera - What arrogance of them to think that this is the venue that an apology should be delivered. Just who the hell do those creeps think they are? Is that the way apologies are to be done, via the media, they only think about themselves and don't give two shits for the victim. I am sure there is an appropriate time and place for an apology (as if is really required, as if one would bring the victim back to his loved ones) my g-d man, I am so sure that young girl would love to turn the clock back and smash that damn phone if she could.

This post is a perfect example of the way the media operates. This tragic story was posted not because there was any empathy for the victim. This is an opportunistic story to try to somehow besmirch orthodox Jews. How pathetic! Yech!

[Alter Kocker]

Orthodox Jewish or not, Christian or not, Muslim or not, it really does not matter. A man is lying in hospital, clinging to life. Brain dead. Will likely be taken off life support. His family devastated. Why, because someone ignorantly was texting instead of paying attention to their driving.

In this situation, it is plain, without reservation, the religion, race, creed or sex does not matter. The perpetrator should forfeit their money and freedom for depriving the victim of their life and their family of a breadwinner. Nothing else matters.

[effie]

Under these circumstances, there is no credible defense to rear ending the victim who was stopped at a red light. A simple apology now would be more credible than her atty claiming she was sorry at her sentencing hearing as they drag her off to Cell Block H.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Shmarya posts:

"Don't you think she and her family bear some responsibility, if not out of basic human decency then out of preventing or minimizing chillul Hashem, to act like mentchen?"

She (the perp) certainly does. Her family? Absolutely not. Her mother wasn't texting, didn't take her eyes off the road, and hit this guy. Neither did her father, nor her brothers and sisters (and if she's haredi she's got plenty).

She must take full responsibility for her actions, and if she's convicted of criminally negligent homicide (unlikely), she can do the time.

[Anon 99]

Shmarya -

Sorry but your defense just doesn't cut it. At this point, for her to say anything would not help the situation at all and can only harm her. She will likely face a re-arraignment and more serious charges, she will be sued by the victim's family and as the saying goes, she has the right to remain silent. Anything said can and will be held against her. It is common practice to simply not comment or ignore the media in this situation. As an attorney, I would have advised her or any client of mine to not say anything. Her refusal to apologize has nothing to do with her being frum.
(For those questioning her religiousness, she is frum, I know her and family well.) She is a well-meaning girl who has done something, albeit unintentionally, with very serious consequences.
I don't think texting/talking on the phone while driving is a unique issue facing orthodox Judaism, just as I don't think speeding is unique to us nor shows how little respect we have for the laws of the country.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Nobody on this blog ever talked on the cell phone while driving? Looked at a text message while driving? Typed an address into your GPS while driving? Drove home after a drink (or 2 or 3) at a simcha?

Like anyone else, she has the right to due process.

She has the right to hire an attorney, and to have that attorney defend her as best as legally possible.

Plea deals have been worked out on other serious accident cases. Remember Lizzy Gruber?

Even if there was tort reform, an aggrieved victim (or their family) will have the right sue for compensation. Tort reform might limit the amount of compensation, but there should always be the right of a victim to demand civil damages from a perpetrator who caused grievous injury.

I don't mean to attack the victim, but how many of you drive in NYC? If so, how would you describe the driving etiquite of those Chinese food delivery guys on bicycles and scooters?

[Shmarya]

Sorry but your defense just doesn't cut it. At this point, for her to say anything would not help the situation at all and can only harm her.

At the very least, her attorney could have and should have issued a brief statement on behalf of the girl and her family.

He could have done so without admitting guilt, but still showing great sympathy for the victim and his family.

But that is often, it seems, the furthest thing from the haredi mind.

When shit happens, haredim seem to view themselves as the victims – even when their careless acts kill innocent people.

[Cheskel]

+++She would not apologize for an accident that is apparently 100% her fault.
She and her family seemed to show little, if any, concern for Mr. Lin and his family.
The Rothbergers are Orthodox. They have identifiable Jewish names.
Don't you think she and her family bear some responsibility, if not out of basic human decency then out of preventing or minimizing chillul Hashem, to act like mentchen?+++++

I got give it to you,when you good your great.

The New York Post is not known to have to much love for orthodox Jews,still they didn't feel it was important to mention in the heading "Orthodox".

WSC,

Be honest,what do you think is the real reason Shamarya wrote "Orthodox"?

[Menachem Mendel lll]

RE: D S Esq comment:

"Would it have made it to your site had the young lady not been an Orthodox Jew?"

I trust that if this story was about anyone other than an Orthodox Jew or Jewess, Mr. Rosenberg would not have posted this article.

I fail to understand Mr. Esq's comments but at the same time I respect his POV.

If I want news from around the world I would seek out other reliable and respected news sources who specialize in such coverage.

If I or anyone else who is interested unbiased, objective news reports pertaining to all types of criminality (as in this unfortunate tragedy) within the religious, orthodox, frum, haredi Jewish communities Failed Messiah is the "go to" website and why I along with tens of thousand of people such as yourself Mr. Esq log on frequently.

[Catcher50]

I'm afraid, Shmarya (and I almost always agree with you) that you have overstepped, here:

1. An apology, particularly a public one, will satisfy only the media, who generally don't have either the best interest of any of the concerned parties or the general public in mind. Any apology is an admission of guilt/responsibility. Truth is that, if you are brought into a police station for any sort of reason that might negatively impact on you, there is only one word that you should say: Lawyer. She did the right thing.

2. Maybe this incident will provide the some of the frum Rabonnim with a reason to actually search text and do a d'var Torah that will have an impact on their congregants, rather than speaking about generalities or some esoteric subject that only will impact people over which they have no influence (such as most Jews.)

3. BTW, every time I hear of the need for such an apology, I'm reminded of an athlete's pro-forma apology, which is usually in the form of: "I'm sorry you were offended by what I did", which is a lot different from "I'm sorry for what I did."

[Anon 99]

At the very least, her attorney could have and should have issued a brief statement on behalf of the girl and her family. . . He could have done so without admitting guilt, but still showing great sympathy for the victim and his family. . . When shit happens, haredim seem to view themselves as the victims – even when their careless acts kill innocent people.

Perhaps the attorney could have issued some sort of statement but that is not his legal strategy. You cannot blame the girl or her family or orthodoxy for listening to one's attorney.

Really where from this article or the behavior of the girl/family do you see them blaming the victim for her act. Even if they had said that the victim partially responsible for his injuries for some reason or another - again, we live in a litigious society and contributory/comparative negligence is a perfectly common and normal defense. A defense not unique to orthodox people.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Cheskel, I agree with you. Even if the girl and her family were official members of the most ultra-orthodox group, it is irrelevant to the terrible accident.

The Post headline is "Distracted driver mows down man: cops"

So The Post headline says it's the police version of what happened. Even a newspaper known for sensationalist headlines was careful with their wording.

But here? Anything goes.

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

One reason it makes sense to point out she is an ultra-orthodox is because often when ultra-orthodox is arrested for something, they start claiming antisemitism.

Usual when Irish people , or Latin people get arrested arrested they do not claim it is anti-Irish, anti Latin thing.

[Cheskel]

WSC,
Is it your walk through williamsburg that you changed tone or you trying to trap me lol?

[True]

Refuses To Apologize "misleading title". shmaya do you hate all orthodox Jews?

[harold]

Refuses To Apologize "misleading title". shmaya do you hate all orthodox Jews?

BINGO!

A total and all consuming hatred. How sad, how truly sad.

[Mr. Apikoros]

On the same day, an Israeli-born man who works for a hedge fund was killed by a hit-and-run driver who knocked the Israeli guy off his motorcycle.

The hit-and-run driver, also a female, wasn't Jewish.

It didn't make Failed Messiah. This speaks volumes, and as everybody here knows, I'm no fan of the Orthodox.

[Mr. Apikoros]

In addition, I'd like to know where in the story did it say that the perp is claiming anti-Semitism. Nor did the NY Post come out and say the woman is Jewish, let alone Orthodox, although given her name and the neighborhood in which the accident occured, it's a safe bet to assume both.

[Cheskel]

+++On the same day, an Israeli-born man who works for a hedge fund was killed by a hit-and-run driver who knocked the Israeli guy off his motorcycle.+++++

That's because she felt sorry. Unlike this orthodox woman doesn't feel sorry. In fact if Shmarya had the balls he would write that she is delighted that a goy got hit.

[Monsey Hocker]

Mr. Apikores I hate to say it but they say there are two kinds of motorcycle drivers, those who have been killed and those waiting to be killed. Not that I blame the driver, but it is hardly news.

I hate to say this to all the frummocks crying like biotches about how the press is slanted and antisemitism drives the world, but if yiddin are going to lay claim as the am hanivchar, then they damn well better live up to it.

If a goy hit that poor chink dude, we would expect nothing. But from a frummock yenta we do expect more, and Shmarya is 1000% right for pointing this out. With great status comes great responsibility. If you want to act like the goyim, we don't need you in the tribe.

[Cheskel]

++++If you want to act like the goyim, we don't need you in the tribe.++++

You little racist.

[Monsey Hocker]

Can someone please post the name of the gook and his mothers name so we can daven for him. I'm sick of the Shulem Mordche ben Rifka Halevi Hatzadik Hanistar Hadrunk mi shebeyrachs. Sheng Ling ben what?

[itchiemayer]

I caused a three tow truck/zero ambulance (Baruch Hashem!) accident in April, just 9 days before my son's Bar Mitzva. I was talking on the phone to an out of town friend that had exciting news for me. I failed to notice a stop light, went through it, and was hit on the driver's side by a car making a left turn, and on the passenger side by a car making a right turn. When I realized what had happened, the first thought in my mind was that I have a yarmulke on my head and I was petrified of causing a chillul hashem (desecration of God's name). I took full responsibility for the accident, apologized to the other two parties involved, and I believe I averted the chillul Hashem. The other parties were good people, and perhaps I even sanctified God's name a bit.
Anyhow, Hashem was looking out for me. Noone was hurt, my car which I never liked was totalled, I was able to get a great deal on a 2009 Camry which I really like, all the parties had the same insurance company which I think helped keep things clean, and because I had (up to that point) an excellent driving record (bli ayin horah!), I was just renewed for insurance at about a 2% increase which is what I would have had even without the accident.
It also added material to my planned speech at the bar mitzva regarding Kiddush Hashem and not causing chillul Hashem.
Gam zu l'tova!

[WoolSilkCotton]

Cheskel, I thoroughly enjoyed my day in Williamsburg!
Had a great time walking along Lee Avenue, lots of good food shopping, AWESOME bakeries. Everyone there was very polite and well mannered. No wild bochrim or crazy baal tshuvah types running in the streets like you see in Crown Heights. No mentally ill wanderers shouting to themselves in the streets like in Boro Park.

I did plenty of food shopping, also got fantastic brandies at the liquor store, and all Satmar storekeepers (men and women) were very polite and friendly.

Cheskel, where is there a very early morning minyan on Hoshanah Rabbah in Williamsburg? Would they allow an ordinary yid like me there? I want to daven as early as possible to beat the traffic. Please let me know. Thanks.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Itchie, thank G-d everything worked out.
All the best to you for a Happy, Healthy, and Sweet 5771.

[Cheskel]

WSC,
I saw this post i think right after YK. I am not surprised that you got the impression.
As i said before without going into much details,that you cant judge the entire orthodox chassidic or non in the same way. There is one particular sect that is very militant (if i can use the word) so therefore many will link all groups in one.

Will try to think of an early minyan and will let you know.

So i guess you be in willi for chal hameod?

[effie]

Nobody on this blog ever talked on the cell phone while driving? Looked at a text message while driving? Typed an address into your GPS while driving? Drove home after a drink (or 2 or 3) at a simcha?

I can only speak for myself: No. No. No. Yes, but I waited until I was below the legal limit. I'm no saint. I just don't want to have to go through life with the experience of killing someone while driving.

None of Gruber's victims were killed. And Mr. Lin was stopped at a red light, when he was struck from behind. So, how is his driving in question?

I assume that is her with her mother in the NYPost photo. Anyone else find her appearance odd???

[norm]

For once I disagree with Shyrma-

This is an example of a person who happens to be Orhtodox doign a ba dthing and not beign responsible-The reason your site exists is that there people like Rubashkins who believe that because they are orthodox thelaws do not apply to them. This isn't such a situation.

[Mr. Apikoros]

The correct quote, MH, is that there are two kinds of bikers: Those who haven't gone down and those who have.

I had a motorcycle back in the late 1960's and 1970's. Various types, all Japanese except one Husquvarna 390 cc. I used to ride to work and park downtown where there were free spots for bikes, both in Chicago when I lived there and in Manhattan. It sure beats driving, or taking the subway, on nice days that is.

Yes, I went down. A little road rash, but nothing serious.

These days I own stock in Harley Davidson, which I recently bought. But buying a Fat Boy is very much on my bucket list, not quite the same as my kick-the-bucket list.

[Mr. Apikoros]

That's those who haven't gone down yet and those who have.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Cheskel, I hope to visit on Tues. or Wed. of chal hamoed.
It would be Wednesday if I can find a very early minyan.

Effie, I'll bet most of us probably have committed one of those questions at some time in our lives.

I'm sure her attorney will look for ways to discredit the victim, such as by his driving record.

She does look a bit odd in the photo, almost like she's got some sort of mental syndrome, but I've got to figure she and her mother are under huge duress walking out of the police station or courthouse, with a bunch of annoying news photographers shooting her. Reminds me of Bonfire of the Vanities. Can't expect the most flattering family portrait under those circumstances.

[effie]

I'm sure her attorney will look for ways to discredit the victim, such as by his driving record.

Since he was stationary and at a red light, his driving record is irrelevant and will not come in.

I don't expect a glamour shot but her hair looks like it hasn't been washed in a week, which as you point out, may be a sign of other problems.

[harold]

walking out of the police station or courthouse, with a bunch of annoying news photographers shooting her

The infestation that I spoke of in the past!

[sam]

1. The girls is clearly frum (see pic);
2. She does look a bit retarded;
3. She should obviously NOT be apologizing now, but just keeping her mouth shot for as long as this remains a legal matter;
4. I find it very odd that a reporter asked an alleged perpetrator of a crime – and it is likely to become just that after the guy dies – to make a declarative apology for commuting the crime...
5. I do NOT find it odd that a Jew-hater Scott Rosenberg YM"SH would want an orthodox Jewess to admit her crime and not have her day in court. For that alone I hope and pray that G-d brings a horribly painful death upon Scott Rosenberg soon, Amen! (And yea, I read his call for the lawyer to issue an apology letter without admitting any guilt – what a bunch of disingenuous bullshit!)

[WoolSilkCotton]

++harold | September 21, 2010 at 02:54 PM++

Harold, you should read Bonfire of the Vanities.

[effie]

Okay, no apology and no argument at her sentencing that she demonstrated remorse at an early stage of the proceedings, therefore, no breaks. Don't drop the soap, Nechama!

[Cheskel]

The news here is that a driver while texting hit a person.
For a long time those who comment on this blog and is in agreement with Shamrya,kept on saying that all he does is reporting the negative news about orthodox Jews.Its not his fault that Orthodox Jews are making bad news.

The news here is clearly what it is. That a driver hit a person while texting.Also in the news that its a woman who is 19 years.The post said all that it could but didn't mention that she is Orthodox

Please don't apologize and do not remove the heading. It clearly shows for some who is in agreement with you most of times what a clear sick puppy you are. Its not even the hatred you have for orthodox Jews. Its hatred for humanity

[effie]

Because she was texting, which is illegal, she ran a red light, striking another motorist who had stopped for the red light, killing him. So, claiming that she merely "hit a person" while driving and texting, demonstrates the bias and hatred certain people have for non-Jews.

[David]

Whilst this is an example of negligent driving that just happens to have been done by a supposedly "religious" person, in general it is fair to say that Charedi drivers are extremely bad (and dangerous), wherever I have seen them in the world.

Whenever I see a car where the driver is wearing a black hat or a sheitl, or if I see a Moshiach sticker on the bumper, I keep well clear.

[Shmarya]

Let me help some of you process:

1. The girl is NOT denying she struck Lin.

2. The girl's attorney told the Post his client "didn't hit him intentionally. It was merely an accident."

3. Therefore, since the girl has, through her attorney, admitted the accident, apologizing for it (perhaps without saying it was her fault) could easily be done.

4. Even so, neither the lawyer or the girl's mother or the girl apologized.

5. This is all obvious in the story. But many of you either completely missed it or chose to ignore it.

6. As for the girl's picture, it wasn't posted until sometime after I did my post, so I never saw it until a moment ago.

7. Could the girl be mildly retarded? It's possible. However, it's unlikely the Post would have missed that. In fact, it probably would have been in the headline.

8. Now, for those of you who rushed to condemn me, I suggest you take a moment to ask yourselves a question. There are, sadly, plenty of accidents in NYC every day in which people are seriously injured or killed. Why did the Post feature this one?

9. The answer is twofold: a) The girl was texting, and that is a hot topic right now, and b) the girl and the family didn't apologize when asked.

10. As I wrote above, her attorney could have issued an apology if that would have been more comfortable but he did not. But, at the same time, he did say what the girl did was "merely" and accident.

11. What do you think the press thought about that statement, especially when combined with her lack of an apology?

12. As I said above, just like Rubashkin or any other Jewishly identifiable frum criminal, there is a debt to the Orthodox community (and to God) that is owed by the criminal.

Just as Rubashkin created a giant chillul Hashem, this girl created a chillul Hashem. But in her case, a simple heart-felt apology and showing real concern for the victim and his family could have mitigated it.

13. She and her family and her apparently frum attorney chose not to apologize or show that concern.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Other sources are reporting a different version of what happened:

"...Lin was heading east on Avenue P, a block from Best China Restaurant, when he tried to turn left onto E. 17th St., police said. Rothberger was in a Toyota Camry behind Lin, attempting to make the same turn when she received a text message, cops and court papers said..."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/
2010/09/20/2010-09-20_texting_brooklyn_teen_driver
_hits_critically_injures_chinese
_deliveryman.html#ixzz10CVnc6Yt
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/
2010/09/20/2010-09-20_texting_brooklyn_teen_driver_
hits_critically_injures_chinese_
deliveryman.html

http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories
/125779/young-woman-to-be-charged
-in-brooklyn-scooter-crash

http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-teen-
texting-hurts-deliveryman,0,5951633.
story

So both vehicles were in motion, trying to make the left turn, late at night on a dark street in Brooklyn. There was no red light.

You can be sure they will bring up the victim's driving record. What NYC juror hasn't dealt with an annoying Chinese delivery biker weaving in and out of traffic at high speed?

So maybe the NY Post got the story wrong?

[Cheskel]

+++3.Therefore, since the girl has, through her attorney, admitted the accident, apologizing for it (perhaps without saying it was her fault) could easily be done++++

When you will hit and kill a person, you will see how frozen you get for a few days or months.
She and her mother are in total disbelief to even speak.

++++ This is all obvious in the story. But many of you either completely missed it or chose to ignore it.+++

The NY Post is quite good in making splashy headlines that people should read it. And all they did was heading it as how tragic driving while texting. Not they mentioned in the heading Orthodox or the big story of the refusal of apology.

+++++. As I said above, just like Rubashkin or any other Jewishly identifiable frum criminal, there is a debt to the Orthodox community (and to God) that is owed by the criminal. Just as Rubashkin created a giant chillul Hashem, this girl created a chillul Hashem. But in her case, a simple heart-felt apology and showing real concern for the victim and his family could have mitigated it.+++++

With mentioning Rubashkin you just trying to score points with your usual few posters who agree with you on other news when it comes to bashing orthodox Jews. But it doesn't seem to work.

[Monsey Hocker]

There is no news here. The BP mentality is we are great, and freye yiddin suck. And goyim are nothing and nobody. There is zero tolerance for modernishe yiddin who may GASP wear kippa srugah. Don't worry if the chareidi neighbor of yours is raping his six year old kid every Friday night, that we won't talk about. But some yip gets hit by a yenta and if she's prosecuted you can be sure the flock will scream overzealous prosecution when the guy drops dead. Just watch a poor schnook freye yid who walks into a pizza shop on 13th Avenue. He'll be bumped into, ignored and stepped on like he's invisible. I've seen this. 99% of chareidim are uncouth and have no class or social skills. And the other 1% are in electronics and fly to Vegas 4 times a year and get shtupped by the hotties with the bolt ons that would make a satmar yentas sheitel fly off if she ever saw them - so these guys have learned a little how to behave. Like I said, there is no news here.

[effie]

So both vehicles were in motion, trying to make the left turn, late at night on a dark street in Brooklyn. There was no red light.

And she was following behind him, was distracted by her phone, struck and ran him over, and when the cops arrived 5 minutes later, she's still texting...

Still sounds pretty bad.

[Shmarya]

When you will hit and kill a person, you will see how frozen you get for a few days or months.
She and her mother are in total disbelief to even speak.

Hopefully none of us will ever hit and kill a person or hit and injure a person.

Past that, as the story made very clear, when the girl, ,her attorney and her mother refused to apologize, none of them yet knew Mr. Lin was brain dead.

[Adam Neira]

Never underestimate the stupidity of some people on the road. Cars can be killing machines. The road accident rate in Israel is way too high. Even in the best places there are still cases of criminal negligence and wilful damage. It is hard to teach common sense. Case in point...The State of Victoria in Australia has one of the lowest road tolls per capita of any region with high vehicle ownership in the world. Even so 290 people died tragically on the roads in 2009 out of a total population of 5,427,700. (The number of vehicle kilometres travelled per day is approximately 205,000,000 kms. The ratio of deaths per day to kms. travelled is 1:706896.) The reasons for this low toll are threefold : Public education; Better policing; Tougher penalties.

[Shmarya]

So both vehicles were in motion, trying to make the left turn, late at night on a dark street in Brooklyn. There was no red light.

Please.

I'm adding a picture of the intersection to my post.

As you can see from the picture, the intersection has street lights and also traffic lights.

[Monsey Hocker]

Once again Shmarya is attempting to engage in fair and even dialogue with apologists, holier than thou shtetel mongers, and a cadre of posers that destroyed a once beautiful religion. Good luck SR, you're a better man than most because I have no patience for anyone that excuses guilt and pulls the antisemite card every day and twice on Sunday. Be honest, this kid and her family will be sorry for what happens to her, but that the gook dies - they'll be bothered more by bubby's rancid flatulence and her refusal to take her Dulcolax.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Effie, true, but it seems that the detailed facts of exactly what happened are not clear.

Yes, she was texting, got distracted, hit a guy in front of her who was on a scooter.
Were both in motion? Did he stop suddenly while trying to make an aggresive maneuver during a turn? Did he have a record of obnoxious aggressive driving? Would she have hit him even if she wasn't texting?

Just trying to see all sides here, and not just the obvious 'dopey teen girl texting while driving'. Is it responsible journalism to describe her as "dopey"?

[WoolSilkCotton]

++Shmarya | September 21, 2010 at 04:44 PM++

Ever had an accident where you slammed into the car ahead of you, because he stopped suddenly?

Is driving safer at night or during the day, regardless of street lighting? Ask any cop.

17th and Ave. P in Midwood? You really think the lights are so bright there? Early Monday morning was pretty foggy here in the NJ area, just west of NYC. What were weather conditions at that intersection?

[anoymous]

once you say sorry you are admitting guilt and that can be used against you in a court of law every lawyer advises their client not to say a word to anyone until the court trial sorry that is the way life works

[Shmarya]

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | September 21, 2010 at 04:57 PM

Lets see. The Post and the Daily News mention nothing about fog, poor driving conditions, a dark intersection, or any of the excuses you use.

Past the extremely obvious, the girl's attorney did not use those excuses, either, and apparently none of them are found in the court record, which includes a description of the accident.

So to believe you, we have to believe both newspapers screwed up, the girl's attorney screwed up, and the police misrepresented the accident.

You obviously do not like Chinese delivery men – you've made that perfectly clear.

But the evidence as reported by two news sources and based on court records show a negligent texting driver striking and seriously injuring a man on a scooter. And that man was, apparently, following the law. The girl was not.

[D S Esq.]

Interesting how JWB suggests that I defend any Orthodox Jewish criminal. That simply isn't true. (JWB appears to have a perpetual chip on his shoulder. It must be agonizing for him to go through life with so much anger toward so many people. More than pity him I feel awful for those around him.) First off, I don't specialize in criminal law. Secondly, I never defended Ms. Rothberger. I know nothing about her case beyond what I read here. If she is guilty of a crime, she should do the time. All I did is point out that Shmarya's intentional reference to her being an Orthodox Jew bespeaks his true motivation in posting the story; to indict all of Orthodox Jewry in her crime. I'm sure that into the future, he'll be attacking the OU and other Orthodox organizations for not having a sufficiently strong anti texting while driving policy on the books. Orthodox poskim and rabbis will be vilified for not preaching about the evil of texting while driving often enough. Yeshivot will be upbraided on this blog for not doing enough to educate students about this issue. After all, Sharya will posit, Ms. Rothberger (allegedly) hit a man while texting. It must be due to a deep seated Orthodox ambivalence or even hostility towards the non-Orthodox and non-Jewish community at large. That she hasn't apologized for it proves it. Right Shmarya?>

[Shmarya]

All I did is point out that Shmarya's intentional reference to her being an Orthodox Jew bespeaks his true motivation in posting the story; to indict all of Orthodox Jewry in her crime

Please.

I cover crime in the O-R-T-H-O-D-O-X community.

The woman is O-R-T-H-O-D-O-X.

Get it?

Past that, as I made clear by my headline, the major issue was not apologizing and acting as if the victim and his family were tangential to the situation.

We don't yet know who called police or what the girl did after hitting Mr. Lin, besides texting.

Did she try to help him? Did she call police?

If she did not then the story only gets worse.

Lets hope that is not the case.

[effie]

Yes, she was texting, got distracted, hit a guy in front of her who was on a scooter. Were both in motion? Did he stop suddenly while trying to make an aggresive maneuver during a turn? Did he have a record of obnoxious aggressive driving? Would she have hit him even if she wasn't texting?

Texting while driving is a crime. Whether both were in motion or he came to a sudden stop, she would still be at fault, because, one, she was texting, two, she was distracted, three, she was following too close to stop safely. The spin you are trying to give it to make her less at fault and him the bad guy is unlike you, IMO.

Just trying to see all sides here, and not just the obvious 'dopey teen girl texting while driving'. Is it responsible journalism to describe her as "dopey"?

As far as I'm concerned, texting while driving is evidence of being a dope.

[effie]

What I always thought was a great idea is these cameras you can have installed in your car to check on how your kid is driving. If he/she is driving irresponsibly, take away the car.

[harold]

The girl's attorney told the Post his client "didn't hit him intentionally"

I should hope not!

The problem here is that Mr. Rosenberg, being part of the collection of parasites collectively known as the media has this warped sense of how the world works and their self worth. If "A" harms "B" then "A" has to apologize to "B". "A" does not have to go through "THE MEDIA" to apologize to "B" nor does he have to report to the media if and when and how he apologized nor does he have to even talk to them. They are to be ignored since they HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT HAPPENED and to be honest DON’T GIVE A SHIT. This is not the first time that Mr. Rosenberg's self worth has been shaken when people ignore him or the ilk that he is affiliated with.

There is no law, both religious or secular that says one has to say one f-cken word to the media, and to not respond to their questions SAYS NOTHING and MEANS NOTHING more that I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU". Nothing more and nothing less! Got it?

[Shmarya]

Posted by: harold | September 21, 2010 at 06:36 PM

As I've pointed out before, you're a shoteh.

Try learning the halakhot of chillul Hashem.

[Shmarya]

The girl's attorney told the Post his client "didn't hit him intentionally"

The atorney also said it was merely and accident.

But of course 'harold' did not bother to mention that.

[WoolSilkCotton]

++so to believe you, we have to believe both newspapers screwed up++
+Shmarya | September 21, 2010 at 05:22 PM+

The Post says he was stopped at a red light.

The Daily News says they were both in motion, making a left turn. No red light mentioned.

One says 11:30pm, the other says 11:45pm, and yes, the exact timing is crucial, when you check the cell phone for when the texts were received and sent.

At least one of the newspapers got the story wrong. You tell me which.

No mention of weather conditions or lighting, good or bad.

Yesterday she was arraigned on a misdemeanor count of reckless driving and a violation for using a mobile phone while driving.
She pleaded not guilty. The whole thing took only a few minutes.

It was not a trial, and so not all the facts and details were presented, nor did they have to be. The attorney did not have to present any evidence; it was just a plea of not guilty.

There is plenty of investigating that both sides, as well as the police, will still need to do.

Where is it stated that she was still texting her friend when the police arrived?

When I was in a car accident, the first thing I reached for was my cell phone, to call the police. Then I texted my boss to tell him I'd be late.

I can easily pull numerous articles of Chinese delivery men on bikes or scooters hitting pedestrians and other vehicles on the streets on NYC. They are notorious here in NY for their callous disregard of pedestrians as well as motorists. Let's see Mr. Lin's driving record. Let's hear witnesses describe how he was driving through the intersection. Let's see the timing of the girl's text messages and correlate them with the timing of the accident. Perhaps a witness knows the exact time of the accident.

[effie]

Where is it stated that she was still texting her friend when the police arrived?

It was in one of the links you provided. I don't think it said who she was texting.

When I was in a car accident, the first thing I reached for was my cell phone, to call the police. Then I texted my boss to tell him I'd be late.

I would think you would call 911 and then try to aid the victim in this case. If it were me, I would call 911, aid the victim, and then curl up into a fetal position.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | September 21, 2010 at 07:15 PM

You need to read the articles you cited again.

The Daily News clearly states its account of the accident is based on court documents, which would themselves be based on the police report.

The Daily News does not mention bad weather, poor lighting or any of the other excuses you invented. No other media reports do, either.

That means either every media outlet who covered this story omitted key facts to hurt the girl, which is highly unlikely, or those assertions you made are false.

And, I guarantee you, if the victim had been your friend rather than a Chinese delivery man, you'd be singing a completely different tune.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Her attorney's job is to protect her rights, and that involves presenting the story as a tragic unfortunate accident.

Yes, it was merely an accident. She wasn't trying to run him down.
Yes, the victim's injuries were grievous. And maybe "merely" wasn't the best word to use, given the severity of the injury, but the fact is that this was an accident, like so many other motor vehicle accidents in NYC every day, albeit with a catastrophic outcome.

Did the hospital do everything properly? Yankel Rosenbaum's injuries didn't have to be fatal, remember? The surgeons neglected to notice the stab wound on his back, and that's why he died.

Listen folks, I am not trying to exonerate the girl or vilify the victim. I am trying to have a free and open exchange here as an exercise to see all potential sides and issues.

I am not ready to write this off as "dopey frum girl, maybe retarded, texting recklessly while running down a hapless Chinese delivery guy waiting for a red light on a scooter, and she doesn't even care or feel bad, because she's orthodox, and after all, we know they don't give a shit about anybody who isn't one of them".

If her attorney thinks that issuing some carefully worded apology would be helpful, than he can formulate one with her. Seems like something for her to say in court, and not to a news camera. She owes no apology via the media.

Harold, you must read how the media treated the main character in Bonfire of the Vanities.

[WoolSilkCotton]

And why was Rubashkin mentioned earlier? Why stop there?
Why not bring in hitler, the Holocaust, nazis, and Auschwitz?

[WoolSilkCotton]

Something orthodox Jews get into accidents. Sometimes they do stupid things. Sometimes they commit crimes. Sometimes they get caught.

They still have the right to hire an attorney, and they should obey the attorney's advice. That advice is almost always "keep your mouth shut, don't discuss the case with anyone, stay away from the media, and let me do the talking". A wise client takes that advice.

If they have misgivings about the legal advice they're getting, they can always get a consultation with another attorney.

[Shmarya]

Yes, it was merely an accident.

No, it was not "merely an accident.

It was an accident that police say was caused by the girl's negligent driving and her texting.

And it was an accident in which a man was grievously injured and perhaps killed.

Yet all you see is are nonexistent road conditions, weather conditions and other excuses and your hatred for Chinese deliverymen.

And why you cannot see that a statement of sorry for the victim was and still is necessary is beyond me.

[Shmarya]

They still have the right to hire an attorney, and they should obey the attorney's advice. That advice is almost always "keep your mouth shut, don't discuss the case with anyone, stay away from the media, and let me do the talking". A wise client takes that advice.

Please. The family briefly spoke to the media. The Post reported it.

The attorney also appears to be Orthodox and, again, one can express sorry and empathy for the victim and his family without admitting guilt.

Any skilled lawyer knows how to do this.

But all you do is keep on alibiing for the bad behavior of the girl, her mother and her attorney as you ignore every fact that conflicts with your spin.

I can't help but wonder how different your remarks would be if the victim were no a Chinese delivery man.

[itchiemayer]

I must tell you that I am extremely uncomfortable with people speculating as to
any possible disabilities you believe this young woman might have based on a picture.

I am reminded of an excerpt from the bood "Sid and Nancy" by the mother of the late Nancy Spungeon A"H. Nancy's death was a public one since she was the girlfriend of Sid Vicious who accidentally killed her when in a drug induced stupor. Anyhow, shortly after her death, the Spungeon family was watching Saturday Night Live when a skit came on poking fun at her death. As you can imagine, it was a painful experience for the Spungeons.

WSC - thanks for the good wishes,and right back at 'ya! No Yankees Cardinals WS this year, darn it.

[WoolSilkCotton]

++It was in one of the links you provided. I don't think it said who she was texting.++

That's what the Daily News said, but maybe she was texting her parents about what had just happened?

The Post article claimed "cops found her cellphone in the car with a half-written outgoing message". That seems to imply that that was the message she was sending at the moment of the crash. Or does it just mean that she was in the middle of a text when they arrived, and she put down the phone?

Where is the exact timed evidence that she was reading or typing a message proximate to the moment of the crash? I assume the phone was confiscated by the police, and they will carefully review the log of all her texting and the times of each message.

++I would think you would call 911 and then try to aid the victim in this case++

The victim was trapped in the car; the door was badly damaged. He was a huge obese man. There was nothing I could do for him, except await the ambulance. He was conscious and talking to me.
I am a physician as well as a (former) EMT for a Rescue Squad. The correct thing to do was to immobilize his neck and back and then extricate. For that you need paramedics and rescue equipment.

++The Daily News clearly states its account of the accident is based on court documents, which would themselves be based on the police report++

Your thread here is based upon the Post, not the Daily News. The story is very different in the Daily News, as I mentioned at 4:19.

When a death or serious injury occurs in a motor vehicle accident, the police will do a detailed investigation which may take several days. It will certainly include details of the weather and lighting that night. That may involve more interviews with the police who were there, and didn't necessarily have to appear in the initial police report.

The newspaper stories were relatively brief, because so was the initial police report.

++if the victim had been your friend rather than a Chinese delivery man, you'd be singing a completely different tune++

And if your friend or relative had been the driver of the car...

I am not a relative, friend, or acquaintance with either party to this case. Therefore, I can remain dispassionate and try to examine all aspects.

[harold]

And why you cannot see that a statement of sorry for the victim was and still is necessary is beyond me

It is necessary (the apology, not the statement), I am sure it will be done if it was not done yet, BUT NOT VIA THE MEDIA!. That is not the proper way. What meshugas, a ”statement” of an apology! It should be done in private ”TO EACH OTHER, FACE TO FACE” so each side can express each other's loss - yes, this is a tragedy for the girl and her family as well - believe it or not. This is not the time to do it properly. Any sane person knows, or should know that she is sorry.

What you are looking at folks is the world through the warped eyes of the media. Imagine an accident occurs, and yes there is a fatality, but the accident does not draw the attention of the media. Does the person who caused the accident have to walk into the office of the New York Post, or The Daily News and declare that he wishes to apologize to the family of the victim? Just because the media decides that they wish to get involved does not mean that the rules of the game changes and now for anything to have any meaning now must flow through them? What arrogance! YECH!

[harold]

Woops blew it with unbalanced HTML tags, sorry guys!

Shoot, I said the "S" word, got to get dressed and go to the New York Post to give my statement of apology.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Shmarya, you didn't read most of what I wrote at 7:50, and so, needing to wake up at 5:00am, I will wish everyone goodnight.

[Shmarya]

Your thread here is based upon the Post, not the Daily News. The story is very different in the Daily News, as I mentioned at 4

Your spin is not supported by either version of the story.

When a death or serious injury occurs in a motor vehicle accident, the police will do a detailed investigation which may take several days. It will certainly include details of the weather and lighting that night. That may involve more interviews with the police who were there, and didn't necessarily have to appear in the initial police report.

The initial police report would contain details such as weather, road conditions, etc.

And, because of the details presented by the Daily News – which claims it's citing court documents – it must be that the story of the accident was known to police, either by the forensic evidence at the scene or by eyewitness testimony, or both.

And none of it supports your spin.

The newspaper stories were relatively brief, because so was the initial police report.

No.

The newspaper stories were relatively brief because both the Post and the News normally run very brief stories.

I am not a relative, friend, or acquaintance with either party to this case. Therefore, I can remain dispassionate and try to examine all aspects.

The one aspect you clearly miss is the victim's aspect.

Now why would that be?

[Shmarya]

Posted by: harold | September 21, 2010 at 08:31 PM

You're an idiot, 'harold.'

This is a PUBLIC incident and the proper way to respond in PUBLIC along with privately apologizing to the victim and his family.

Along with that, the proper thing to do was to show sorrow over what happened and empathy for the victim.

But Nechama, her mother and her attorney did none of those things.

[harold]

This is a PUBLIC incident and the proper way to respond in PUBLIC along with privately apologizing to the victim and his family.

This is not a PUBLIC incident; it is a private tragedy between two families. The Media, the force of darkness, has decided that this has entertainment value and has stepped in, uninvited, as OUTSIDERS and now everyone has to follow their rules and have to "act proper" by the Media standards? How absurd!

The proper way is to let the police handle the investigation, the doctors help the victim, and the courts do what courts do. The Media are bystanders with deep pockets ,expensive equipment and an audience to entertain. They are NOBODIES and rules do not have to change because they appear. Fortunately they also, like a child, have a short attention span and after a day or two go on to bother someone else. In this case, unless Mr Rosenberg turns it into a sticky, will soon fall into the bottomless pit of “Other” soon to be replaced by some other burning “story” like ”How Not To Shake a Lulav”.

P.S. Thanks for clearing up the unbalanced HTML tag problem in my prior post.

[Shmarya]

This is not a PUBLIC incident; it is a private tragedy between two families.

Please.

It is a public incident, not simply a private tragedy.

Go study the halakhot of chillul Hashem. Perhaps you'll lean something – like what responsibility a person like Nechama has.

[Devorah]

Was a drug test done on the teenager? What is she doing out at 11:30 at night texting? Does she not work or go to school?

[itchiemayer]

She is only 19 years old. Technically an adult, but 19 is still just a kid. I'm sure she is overwhelmed and frightened and not really able to properly ponder over the whole chillul hashem aspect.