Family Of Deliveryman Left Brain Dead By Texting Driver Won't Pull The Plug, Vows Lawsuit

Cops found Nechama Rothberger inside the smashed-up Toyota, typing a text on her phone, according to court papers. Investigators also found evidence she was texting at the time of the 11:15 p.m. crash.

Note that even one day after the accident, girl's attorney and family can't even issue a brief, coherent statement showing empathy for the victim's family and hoping for his recovery:

Kin of deliveryman left brain-dead by texting driver won't pull plug, vows suit
BY Edgar Sandoval and John Lauinger • NY DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Clinging to hope, the family of a Brooklyn deliveryman run over by a texting teen driver refused to remove him from life support Tuesday as it vowed to sue.

"I want justice for my husband," the wife of Tian Sheng Lin, 53, said at Kings County Hospital after a sleepless night at his bedside.

The father of three was making a delivery late Sunday for his Chinese restaurant in Midwood when Nechama Rothberger, 19, plowed a Toyota Camry into his scooter.

Cops found Rothberger inside the smashed-up Toyota, typing a text on her phone, according to court papers. Investigators also found evidence she was texting at the time of the 11:15 p.m. crash.

Lin, who brought his family to America from China's Fujian Province in 1992, was left brain-dead. He also suffered organ damage and shoulder injuries.

"He has such massive injuries," his wife, Xiu Ying Zhang, 52, said through an interpreter. She said she was "upset" Rothberger was allegedly too busy texting to pay attention to the road.

The family's lawyer, David Sobiloff - hired to sue Rothberger - said doctors are still performing tests on Lin.

"It would take a miracle, but the family is still hoping for recovery," he said.

Rothberger, the daughter of a Midwood doctor, was charged with driving while using a cell phone and reckless driving and was released on $5,000 bail.

Her lawyer did not return a call yesterday, and a receptionist at her father's office said he would not comment.

Lin's family said all it can do is pray for him and work even harder to keep open the family restaurant.

"Emotionally, we're in turmoil," said his daughter Anna Lin, 29.

Another daughter, Meina Lin, 27, looked at photos yesterday that showed the family arriving in America and running the restaurant in its early years.

"He was young then," she said of her father, pointing at a picture. "We looked happy here."

With Daniel Beekman

Orthodox Woman Texting While Driving Rams Man On Scooter, Leaves Him Brain Dead, Refuses To Apologize.

[Hat Tip: Dr. Rofeh-Filosof.]

Comments

[norm]

Shymra you are way off base here. The is safmily seems to be bad but it got nothing to do with their religion-What am I missing?

[Garnel Ironheart]

First of all, what does this mean:

> Cops found Rothberger inside the smashed-up Toyota, typing a text on her phone

Do you really expect me to believe that she was sitting there inside the wreck texting away and blissfully unaware that she'd hit someone?

Is it possible that right now she's having a nervous breakdown over what she's done? That her parents are in hysterics over their daughter's behaviour?

On another note, a frum friend of mine told me about his constipation the other day. Maybe you could run a post condemning kosher food and its effect on the gut?

[WoolSilkCotton]

++The family's lawyer, David Sobiloff - hired to sue Rothberger - said doctors are still performing tests on Lin++

If he has been officially declared brain dead, then they are not "still performing tests".

[Shmarya]

Shymra you are way off base here. The is safmily seems to be bad but it got nothing to do with their religion-What am I missing?

There is a religious obligation not to act in a way that embarrasses God.

The family is clearly and identifiably Orthodox and their actions are identified with the Jewish community and therefore with God.

This concept is codified in Jewish law which mandates mitigating chillul Hashem, not by covering up crimes and misbehavior, but by acting justly and righteously.

That means once a mistake has been made public one's actions must reflect minimizing the damage done to God's name.

That is why this is a Jewish issue, and that is why the family actions are an embarrassment to their community, to all of us, and to God.

[Shmarya]

If he has been officially declared brain dead, then they are not "still performing tests".

Sure they are.

They are waiting and doing the brain death protocol, probably every 24 hours, in the hope the first time was in error.

[WoolSilkCotton]

+Cops found Rothberger inside the smashed-up Toyota, typing a text on her phone
+

What if she was communicating with her parents or other family, asking for help, asking what I should do? What if they are sending her important information about what she should do, or who she should call?

If someone sends me a message that you're late, where are you, shouldn't she text back and tell them what has happened here?

Do you truly think the girl is so heartless and callous as to continue some silly chit-chat texting with a girlfriend immediately after getting into a terrible accident?

[harold]

Note that even one day after the accident, girl's attorney and family can't even issue a brief, coherent statement showing empathy for the victim's family and hoping for his recovery:

This does not mean that they have no empathy for the victim's family and are not hoping for his recovery. Your logic is twisted.

Is there ANYONE out there with the EXCEPTION of Mr Rosenberg who believes that the Rothberger's family have no empathy for the Lin family and why.

[Shmarya]

This does not mean that they have no empathy for the victim's family and are not hoping for his recovery. Your logic is twisted.

Moron.

I am clearly talking about two things:

1. The girl's obligation under Jewish law to PUBLICLY express sympathy.

2. The girl's obligation under Jewish law to do the same privately to the victim's family.

[seymour]

Is there ANYONE out there with the EXCEPTION of Mr Rosenberg who believes that the Rothberger's family have no empathy for the Lin family and why.

Posted by: harold | September 22, 2010 at 08:05 AM

maybe they read those seforim from Israel that one can kill a goy

a brief statement would be appropriate without admitting guilt I do think that is always done.

[WoolSilkCotton]

++The family is clearly and identifiably Orthodox and their actions are identified with the Jewish community and therefore with God++

Absolute nonsense. I have an obviously Jewish sounding name, and I've been told I sure as hell look Jewish.
So when I'm sued by a patient for malpractice, I should immediately confess and beg forgiveness, and in a public forum? What a load of crap.

My daughter was in a serious car accident at age 19. Both cars were totaled. Nobody was seriously injured. The police gave her a ticket for careless driving and assigned blame to her, as well as other tickets.
My attorney gave us the same advice as I mentioned in the other thread.
In court, my attorney bargained with the prosecutor, judge, and the police officer. The tickets were rescinded, and another summons was issued (exact wording escapes me) which specifically did not assign blame. We paid a big fine and were done.

My lawyer told us this was extremely important because if the other driver later claimed to have whiplash or other pain, my daughter would not be blamed.

Also as a result, there were no points, so her license wasn't tainted, and our car insurance wouldn't screw us.

Since my daughter and I are both obvious Jewish with Jewish sounding names, shouldn't we both have gotten down on our hands and knees and begged the other driver for forgiveness?

My point being- keep your mouth shut and let the lawyer handle it. Admit nothing and say only what your lawyer tells you to say in court. F*ck the media. All that matters is what is said in court.

The initial ticket for careless driving is not etched in stone. The matter will probably be bargained and settled without trial.

How much blame is assigned to each driver remains to be determined, and it will be crucial in a civil suit. Even that will probably be settled without a trial.

Maybe Chinese clergymen should lecture to their community about what a terrible reputation their delivery drivers have, and how they are committing a 'Hillul Budda'?

[WoolSilkCotton]

+Shmarya | September 22, 2010 at 08:02 AM+

So the fact is, he is still not brain dead.

[WoolSilkCotton]

+ Shmarya |September 22, 2010 at 08:16 AM +

America is run by American Law, not by Torah Law.

[Shmarya]

+Shmarya | September 22, 2010 at 08:02 AM+

So the fact is, he is still not brain dead.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | September 22, 2010 at 08:25 AM

The fact is, the doctors declared him brain dead but the family has not accepted that diagnosis and hopes it is in error.

Not a difficult concept to grasp, now is it?

[seymour]

she must have hit the guy pretty hard to sustain such damage

[Shmarya]

America is run by American Law, not by Torah Law.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | September 22, 2010 at 08:26 AM

What a foolish, irrelevant thing to say.

There is nothing in American law or in its application that prevents a brief empathetic, sympathetic statement from being made.

On the other hand, Jewish law mandates such a statement.

[WoolSilkCotton]

++They are waiting and doing the brain death protocol, probably every 24 hours, in the hope the first time was in error++

Brain death protocol requires that the tests be repeated after certain intervals, usually 6-12-24 hours, depending on the hospital's particular protocol. It has nothing to do with "the family hoping for an error".

http://www.aan.com/professionals/practice/
guidelines/pda/Brain_death_adults.pdf

The American Academy of Neurology has guidelines, which each hospital can incorporate into its own brain death protocol.

Doctors have very stringent criteria for declaring someone brain dead, and that's why the tests are repeated. It's not something a doctor can change his mind about after declaring someone dead. That is why the tests are repeated.

Not a difficult concept to grasp, now is it?

[WoolSilkCotton]

++There is nothing in American law or in its application that prevents a brief empathetic, sympathetic statement from being made++

There is plenty in American Law to indicate that you could be screwing yourself if you admitted to something outside of court by making such statements, no matter how well meaning.

The lawyer did say something brief and empathetic.
No matter what he says, you will still not be satisfied, will you?

Why bother with a trial at all? Why not just take the girl, her family, and her lawyer, and hang them from a lamppost at the corner of Mott and Canal Streets?

[Shmarya]

Brain death protocol requires that the tests be repeated after certain intervals, usually 6-12-24 hours, depending on the hospital's particular protocol. It has nothing to do with "the family hoping for an error".

Those times have already passed.

But when the attorney answered that question, it probably was before the 24 hour test.

So what may have happened is the first two tested showed brain death.

Or it may be the protocol was already completed, and the family asked for it to be repeated.

Either way, tests would be done.

[effie]

Do you truly think the girl is so heartless and callous as to continue some silly chit-chat texting with a girlfriend immediately after getting into a terrible accident?

I've seen so much bad behavior by people, I certainly wouldn't rule it out. And if I needed help I would be speaking to 911 - not texting.

You seem to be confusing your daughter's situation with this one. They are not the same.

[Shmarya]

There is plenty in American Law to indicate that you could be screwing yourself if you admitted to something outside of court by making such statements, no matter how well meaning.

The lawyer did say something brief and empathetic.
No matter what he says, you will still not be satisfied, will you?

Why bother with a trial at all? Why not just take the girl, her family, and her lawyer, and hang them from a lamppost at the corner of Mott and Canal Streets?

There are times when I wonder if you base your comments on what I write or on your own fantasies.

Try to think through this:

1. It is entirely possible and regularly done to issue statements of empathy and concern without accepting legal guilt.

2. The issue at hand is the girl, her family and he attorney's refusal to do this, not her criminal and civil liability.

Of course, this is very difficult for you. After all, the victim was a Chinese deliveryman and you've made it abundantly clear you detest them.

[Shmarya]

++The family is clearly and identifiably Orthodox and their actions are identified with the Jewish community and therefore with God++

Absolute nonsense. I have an obviously Jewish sounding name, and I've been told I sure as hell look Jewish.
So when I'm sued by a patient for malpractice, I should immediately confess and beg forgiveness, and in a public forum? What a load of crap.

You are so insane.

When you are sued for malpractice because of a poor outcome it is perfectly normal and legally safe to express sorrow for that outcome while denying culpability.

Most doctors I know would tell patients and their families how sorry they are the surgery didn't work or the treatment failed.

Expressing that sorrow does not legally mean the doctor has acknowledged his own culpability or guilt.

But as you continue to comment like this your agenda becomes clearer.

This is all about your own life, your hatred for Chinese deliverymen and your profession.

Past that, you spent years as Chabadnik and still associate with Chabad and you show little understanding of Jewish law. Why is that?

[Shmarya]

You seem to be confusing your daughter's situation with this one. They are not the same.

You're wrong, effie.

For WSC, it's all about him.

He views everything through the prism of his daughter's errors, his malpractice suits, and his hatred of Chinese deliverymen.

For him, even a simple publicly-expressed wish by the girl or her attorney that the victim get well is too much to ask.

[the usual chaim]

i am just not with you on this one shmarya. Given, she has an obligation not to cause a hilul hashem. but her silence here is not out of the norm, as has been pointed out here repeatedly. hence she does not stand out as a jew and is not being condemned with respect to her jewish identity. her crime was also criminally negligent but not malicious. thus it differs both from your posts on sex abuse, which have directly to do with a horrific interpretation of jewish law as well as from your postings on financial fraud, which often has nothing specifically to do with judaism in any way that differs from secular law (i.e. stealing is illegal in both systems) but is done maliciously and, so, reflects poorly on orthodox jews.

[Shmarya]

but her silence here is not out of the norm, as has been pointed out here repeatedly

That is simply false.

The norm is for the defendant's attorney to issue a brief statement from the defendant and her family that shows empathy and sympathy for the victim and his family.

The reason the Post did its report the way it did is because the defendant and her family did not follow that norm.

hence she does not stand out as a jew and is not being condemned with respect to her jewish identity

That is simply false and does not follow logically.

She has a very identifiably Jewish name and the picture of her and her mother makes it absolutely clear they are Orthodox Jews.

[seymour]

Is there ANYONE out there with the EXCEPTION of Mr Rosenberg who believes that the Rothberger's family have no empathy for the Lin family and why.

Posted by: harold | September 22, 2010 at 08:05 AM

maybe they read those seforim from Israel by those settlement rebbies

a brief statement would be appropriate without admitting guilt I do think that is always done.

[Anon 99]

+ + +1. It is entirely possible and regularly done to issue statements of empathy and concern without accepting legal guilt. + + +

The girl herself and family not issuing a statement, is clearly the guidance of her attorney. Even when people do that, the comment is then, well what good is the prepared statement, it obviously is meaningless. So the perp cannot win by issuing a statement or not.
As for the lawyer issuing a statement without accepting guilt - these are always used in Civil trial's against the defendant. Such a statement would not prejudice a defendant in a criminal context of a plea bargain or even a trial by judge, but absolutely gets brought up to the jury in the civil trial.

This is a big story now, not because of the lack of apology, that is normal, but because of the fact that texting while driving is a hot issue right now, someone is now brain-dead allegedly because of texting while driving, this story comes shortly after new laws into effect against this crime, laws that many people think are not tough enough. Nothing at all to do with the apology. That is completely your spin on it and fabrication. So all should be clear, when the reporters were asking her and the attorney questions after the arraignment, they had no idea that the man was declared brain dead and neither did the court or prosecutor.

You are really stretching on this one.

[Shmarya]

You are really stretching on this one.

No. You are misunderstanding it.

Having a spokesperson – usually the attorney – say something like our hearts go out to the victim and his family and we hope and pray for the victim's full recovery does not negatively impacts the defendant is criminal or civil court.

And the "spin" about the apology isn't my creation – it is reporting done by the NY Post.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Shmarya, you're a complete, absolute fool. This girl is acting on the advice of her attorney.

When you're being sued (and it sure didn't take a long time for the lawyer to file one) you don't admit wrongdoing. Ever. That can and will be used against you.

Moreover, WSC is an anesthesiologist. Therefore, one might assume that he knows a little bit more about brain death than you, who sits on his ass in St. Paul, MN, pontificating.

[Garnel Ironheart]

Shmarya, you're playing a hypocritical game here. How many times have you posted about frum people ignoring American law and criticizing them for it?
Now this girl follows America law, doesn't issue a statement on the advice of her lawyer, and you say she should follow Jewish law instead?

[Shmarya]

Shmarya, you're a complete, absolute fool. This girl is acting on the advice of her attorney.

When you're being sued (and it sure didn't take a long time for the lawyer to file one) you don't admit wrongdoing. Ever. That can and will be used against you.

Please.

I have made it clear over and over and over again that I'm not talking about admitting guilt.

What I'm talking about is issuing a brief statement of sympathy for the victim and his family, and hope for his recovery.

This is done all the time.

Moreover, WSC is an anesthesiologist. Therefore, one might assume that he knows a little bit more about brain death than you, who sits on his ass in St. Paul, MN, pontificating.

I absolutely guarantee you the WSC knows more about the technical aspect of brain death than I do.

I also absolutely guarantee you that his knowledge does not extend into the ethical or halakhic aspects of it in any significant way.

And I also guarantee you that brain death is tangential to this discussion.

[Shmarya]

Shmarya, you're playing a hypocritical game here. How many times have you posted about frum people ignoring American law and criticizing them for it?
Now this girl follows America law, doesn't issue a statement on the advice of her lawyer, and you say she should follow Jewish law instead?

I think this finally confirms my creeping suspicion that an Orthodox Jewish education destroys one's ability to think logically.

American law in no way forbids issuing a brief statement of sympathy for the victim and his family, and hope for his recovery, which is what I say is at minimum necessary under Jewish law.

And American courts do not penalize defendants who do issue such statements.

So Nechama is not "follow[ing] American law."

The problem is, she isn't following Jewish law, either.

[effie]

I have been on both sides of this issue, so to speak. These type of cases evoke a lot of emotions from everyone involved.

In California, it can be charged as misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter, i.e., a traffic infraction violation (usually FTY while making a left turn) causes a death. I also remember a 19 year old who was distracted by her tape player and sideswiped and killed 4 cyclists. She was charged with 4 felony vehicular manslaughters.

[Menachem Mendel lll]

Some of you really get me sick.

For a JEW to show no empathy, contrition or emotion to the victim and his grieving family while only worried about themselves and how to beat the charges and the system is something any decent Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist would NEVER DO.

To Nechama Rothberger and her family I respectfully ask that you exclude yourself from kehlas Yiroel and I will buy your family a beautiful cross to hang up in your living room.

The only problem is no Christian would want people like you in their religion.

Please renounce your ties to Judaism forthwith. Your family violate and piss on everything Yidddishkiet stands for and represents.

My descendants were at Har Sinai when they received the torah and with the coming of Simhas Torah I want F_UCK ALL to do with you.

Surrender your mizuzot, tanchs, teffilin, gartel, shrymel and shytelach to a local Rabbi or bury them.

Where is the Moshiach as god's children are turning against him.

[Mr. Apikoros]

On August 31st, I ran over an open manhole cover in Princeton, NJ. There were no flags, cones, etc. to indicate the cover was open. (It's also possible that the cover was put back on improperly, causing the cover to pivot when the right front tire ran over it, and the right rear tire fell in the hole, then ran over the overturned cover.)

I stopped the car about 100 yards from the accident to inspect the damage. The tire, a runflat no less, was totally destroyed, and the rim was also damaged, as was the interior right rear fender, a piece of hard rubber that I found on the road. There was additional minor damage to the underside of the vehicle.

Fortunately, no injuries. By Newton's law of gravity, if you run over an open manhole (about 3' in diameter) at speed, and I was doing about 45 mph, the car won't fall more than an inch or so into the hole.

There was a Verizon contractor working in the area, and he later showed up and said that while he had opened several manholes, he hadn't gotten to that one yet, a complete line of BS as 250-pound manhole covers don't flip over by themselves.

Of course, I reported this to my insurance company, and the local cops showed up and did a police report.

What's relevant here is that I contacted Verizon, the owner of the manhole (the cover said Bell System which was the forerunner of Verizon). They took all my information, and promised to put it in their system and send me paperwork so I could attach the police report, etc., and maybe get full payment including the $500 deductible without waiting for State Farm to subrogate my claim. I'm still waiting for the body shop to finish the work, which amounts to about $1,500, chump change where BMWs are concerned. "Any day now..."

Needless to say, I'm still waiting. These guys aren't going to admit guilt even though they were far more negligent than merely texting on a cell phone. I could always develop a post-traumatic case of viplash, etc.

[P]

I am not a knee-jerk defender of frum transgressors, but it should be taken into account that it is possible that the deliveryman was not obeying traffic laws, perhaps going against traffic, and that may have contributed to/caused the accident.

Chinese bicycle (and I assume scooters as in this case are basically the same) delivermen are notorious for not obeying traffic laws, going wrong way on street and the like. They are rushing to deliver their pizza and Chinese food in short order. So we have to take into account that he may have been riding the wrong way so she didn't see him.

Of course, texting should not be done while driving, and there needs to be an accounting for that.

Just a thought.

[Shmarya]

Just a thought.

The problem is your thought is not supported by court documents or the accident scene.

[Mr. Apikoros]

P, the evidence from the newspaper reports says the deliveryman was waiting for the light to change. While that may be unusual, in this case, the dude was obeying the law.

[Menachem Mendel lll]

On Lawrence Avenue in Toronto, Ontario a student from Bais Yackov struck and killed her fellow schoolmate as she was crossing the street at a crosswalk.

The female 17 year old driver was blinded by the setting sun as she drove West.

The year was 1997.

The outpouring of grief and emotion by her and her entire family was heartbreaking.

They behaved and conducted themselves EXACTLY as Mr. Rosenberg mentioned.

NO CHARGES WERE EVER LAID.

Question: I wounder how the 19 year old woman (who is criminally charged and is before the courts) would have conducted herself if she haas v'halelah would have been texting or on a cell phone and struck a Jewish mother and all of her 4 small children as she walked with across the street on a green light.

[Mr. Apikoros]

I'm sure this girl feels terrible about having caused an accident which probably will involve a fatality.

I'm sure her parents feel equally terrible.

But this is simply vilification of someone because she MIGHT be Orthodox.

[Shmarya]

But this is simply vilification of someone because she MIGHT be Orthodox.

She is not being vilified and she IS Orthodox.

[Mordechai Y. Scher]

1. If there is indeed evidence that this girl was texting while driving, I'd like to see her get the most severe punishment possible. My *personal* take on that is that is criminally negligent. A car is a loaded weapon. Driving while intentionally distracted is playing with the trigger while swinging that weapon in people's faces.

2. I, too, would *like* to see some expression of regret or sympathy as simple human decency. But I have no idea what what this (scared) witless girl received as instruction from her lawyer.

3. Shmarya, you are fond of citing 'Jewish law'. You are not fond of citing actual sources open to discussion. You present general principles whose application you then assert to be an authority on. What halachot, exactly, did you have in mind here? G'mara, rishonim, ahronim would all be nice, thank you. Last time I challenged you on a point of halacha, you omitted my comment. You should be as accountable as anyone else.

4. As long as we are on the principles of kiddush Hashem and hillul Hashem created by our appearances and behaviors, what do you think of this? A blog whose owner regularly calls disputants things like 'moron', and regularly uses a dismissive and demeaning manner with those who disagree with him. This is an obviously Jewish blog, claiming to speak in the name of Jewish law. Would such an appearance be creating a kiddush Hashem, or hillul Hashem.

Hag Sameah!

[WoolSilkCotton]

What was Joseph Lifsch charged with in 1991? Nothing.

[harold]

1. The girl's obligation under Jewish law to PUBLICLY express sympathy

So does she

(1)Stand on a milk carton on the corner of Ave P & E17th street proclaiming her sorrow?

(2) Write a letter to editor to the Jewish Press expressing her sorrow?

(3) Put an ad in the Midwood version of the Penny saver proclaiming her sorrow?

(4) Post a message on VIN saying that she is sorry?

(5) Post a message on FailedMessaih saying that she is sorry?

(6) Take out a full page ad in the New York Times saying that she is sorry?

(7) Set up an 800 number and express your sorrow to every piece of shit who calls.

(8) Make like “Wind In His Hair.” From the ending scene of “Dances witn Wolves” where he proclaims:

"Dances With Wolves! ... Dances With Wolves! ... I am Wind In His Hair! ... Do you see that I am your friend!? ... Can you see that you will always be my friend!?"

i.e. go to the tallest building in Midwood and proclaim in her loudest voice:

”Lin family.. Lin family .. I am Nechama Rothberger ..I am sorry .. Do you see that I am sorry …Can you see that I hope and pray that Tian Sheng has a miraculous recovery from the accident that I caused.”

Bottom line – Just what EXACTLY do you mean when you say “PUBLICLY express sympathy”

By the way, I am not trying to make fun of the tragedy. I do acknowledge the tragedy and the criminal nature of what precipitated this event. My problem is with Mr Rosenberg’s spinning and milking this story for HIS PERCIEVED orthodox connection. But then again, maybe he is stirring the pot to increase traffic to his site and really doesn’t believe all the crap that he is saying.

The problem with texting should be somehow dealt with on a technological level as well. I would like to be able to put a phone in a Do Not Disturb mode where texts get automated responses that say, “your message has been received but I am currently driving and will get back to you as soon as possible”. – and of course you do not see or get any text alerts until you get out of that mode.

[WoolSilkCotton]

++The problem is your thought is not supported by court documents or the accident scene.++

False.

The Daily News said they were both making a left turn. No mention of a red light. The Post said he was waiting for a red light.

No mention anywhere about Lin's driving record or how he was driving that night.

None of us, including Supreme Court Justice HaRav HaGoan Shmarya SHilta, have seen the court record.
Even if you did, the final police investigation report is still pending.

But that doesn't stop Shmarya.

Orthodox girl = guilty.

Get down on your knees and beg, ortho girl.

[Anon 99]

Menachem Mendel lll

Really - Canada's tort system and criminal system is totally different. For example in Quebec, and I don't know what the law is in Ontario, if you kill someone via motor vehicle by accident (even if the accident was done through negligence) the government gives the victims family a sum certain of money and there is no civil lawsuit. To compare this with our litigious society is really misleading.

One thing I cannot find out one way or the other and it really needs to be emphasized as a lesson to learn is to wear a helmet. Although this does not excuse NR's actions, a cyclist whether motorized or not greatly enhances the possibility of head trauma when not wearing a helmet. Folks don't ride bikes and don't let your kids ride bikes without one.

Shmarya - whether the lawyer feels it helps or hurts their client's case to make an apology is a strategic decision. You cannot fault NR and family and state that she refuses to apologize just because the lawyer has decided that strategically she should not to do so.

[WoolSilkCotton]

+the evidence from the newspaper reports says +

Since when are newspaper reports "evidence"?

[Mordechai Y. Scher]

Harold, the technology you wish for is superfluous. People need to take responsibility, show some restraint, and turn off their phones when driving, or at the least ignore them. A woman motorcyclist stopped at a light was killed in Chicago a year ago. The dimwit who killed her was doing her nails and not paying attention to her driving. She didn't need a new technology for her nail polish bottle. She needed to take responsibility, and not do such a stupid thing while driving. The real life examples of this are endless. So are the numbers of victims.

[WoolSilkCotton]

When I find myself in agreement with Cheskel and Harold, I know that Moshiach will indeed arrive in 5771.

Harold, she is not being charged with any criminal act. Even if the man dies, she may not be. There is still no proof that her cell phone log showing her texting times were studied and correlated with the moment of the accident.

Cops say she was texting. Cops say a lot of things. Ask Amadou Dialo. Ask Eleanor Bumpers. Ask Gideon Busch. Oh wait, you can't. All were unarmed and shot dead by the police who claimed they had guns.

[Shmarya]

3. Shmarya, you are fond of citing 'Jewish law'. You are not fond of citing actual sources open to discussion. You present general principles whose application you then assert to be an authority on. What halachot, exactly, did you have in mind here? G'mara, rishonim, ahronim would all be nice, thank you. Last time I challenged you on a point of halacha, you omitted my comment. You should be as accountable as anyone else.

Please.

Learn the halakhot of chillul Hashem. What you'll see is a person has a responsibility to mitigate damage she has done.

You screw up? You commit a crime or hurt someone? And you are identifiably part of the Jewish community?

You act like a mentch. You publicly and privately wish your victim well.

And– if there is no barrier to doing so like a pending lawsuit– you clearly accept responsibility and issue a public apology, as well.

Without question, once a criminal act is made public, it is the criminal who creates the chillul Hashem and it is the criminal's responsibility to undo it.

[Shmarya]

Harold, she is not being charged with any criminal act. Even if the man dies, she may not be. There is still no proof that her cell phone log showing her texting times were studied and correlated with the moment of the accident.

Yes she is. That's why she had to post bail.

And, according to the court documents, there is evidence she was texting at the time of the accident.

Cops say she was texting. Cops say a lot of things.

Apparently so do doctors who dislike Chinese deliverymen.

[Shmarya]

+the evidence from the newspaper reports says +

Since when are newspaper reports "evidence"?

Since those newspaper reports are quoting court documents.

But why quibble with an anesthesiologist.

[Shmarya]

Shmarya - whether the lawyer feels it helps or hurts their client's case to make an apology…

Lets see.

At least a dozen times I've made the point that a statement sympathizing with the victim and his family does not have to equate to an admission of guilt.

How much clearer to I have to be?

[alternative childcare]

"On the other hand, Jewish law mandates such a statement."

Source?

[DK]

It was erev yontiff, and people have to understand that multi-tasking is necessary for preparation for the chag.

[Shmarya]

1. The girl's obligation under Jewish law to PUBLICLY express sympathy

So does she

(1)Stand on a milk carton on the corner of Ave P & E17th street proclaiming her sorrow?

(2) Write a letter to editor to the Jewish Press expressing her sorrow?

(3) Put an ad in the Midwood version of the Penny saver proclaiming her sorrow?

(4) Post a message on VIN saying that she is sorry?

(5) Post a message on FailedMessaih saying that she is sorry?

(6) Take out a full page ad in the New York Times saying that she is sorry?

(7) Set up an 800 number and express your sorrow to every piece of shit who calls.

(8) Make like “Wind In His Hair.” From the ending scene of “Dances witn Wolves” where he proclaims:

"Dances With Wolves! ... Dances With Wolves! ... I am Wind In His Hair! ... Do you see that I am your friend!? ... Can you see that you will always be my friend!?"

i.e. go to the tallest building in Midwood and proclaim in her loudest voice:

”Lin family.. Lin family .. I am Nechama Rothberger ..I am sorry .. Do you see that I am sorry …Can you see that I hope and pray that Tian Sheng has a miraculous recovery from the accident that I caused.”

Bottom line – Just what EXACTLY do you mean when you say “PUBLICLY express sympathy”

You are perhaps the most disgusting person I've had contact with.

What it means is, when the papers ask if you're sorry, you or your attorney or chosen spokesperson issues a statement as I described above.

The attorney can do this in writing, if he wants.

[Shmarya]

"On the other hand, Jewish law mandates such a statement."

Source?

Please.

You create a chillul Hashem, you are obligated to do everything you can to minimize it or completely end it.

Or is the esteemed doctor arguing no such obligation exists?

[Menachem Mendel lll]

Anon 99

Yes...really!

You are correct that Quebec Laws are different than the rest of Canada.

This accident happened in Toronto, Ontario.

The victim's family told the Judge that they forgive the drive and insist that all charges be dropped.

The Judge agreed and granted their wish.

Please correct me if I am wrong Mr. Rosenberg but isn't this the kind of attitude Jews including Orthodox Jews should aspire towards.

By conducting themselves in accordance to the Torah the Abishter worked nisim.

By conducting herself the way that Nechama Rothberger did, along with her family all we can do is pray for the best and sit back and watch what the Abishter does or does not do in this case.

[WoolSilkCotton]

+Shmarya | September 22, 2010 at 11:45 AM +

"...she was arraigned on a misdemeanor count of reckless driving and a violation for using a mobile phone while driving.
She pleaded not guilty..."

I am not a Supreme Court Justice like you are, but a misdemeanor isn't a felony. Maybe it's a crime. But bail was only $5000.

In a few weeks the charges will will be pleaded down and settled.

But since she's probably orthodox, let's get the lethal injection ready.

Shmarya, please let me know just what it is you do for a living, so I can mock you, just as you mock me.

Now that we are at the mockery stage, as you have reached, it's time to round out the conversation by referring to the girl as a nazi, she is worse than Hitler, she committed a Chinese Holocaust, and Midwood is no different than Auschwitz.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Anytime a Jew is accused of a crime, he or she must get on his/her hands and knees and apologize, as per the media's request, and as per HaRav Shmarya Shlita.

No need to listen to your lawyer. Shmarya will guide you. Just send him a text message while you're waiting for the police to arrive.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Watch that, WSC. My favorite cousin lives on E. 25th Street between Quentin and Av. R. Possibly the only secular Jew (along with his wife) left on that block.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Justice Shmarya, kindly give us a sample draft of a statement you would like the girl to read to the media, that would not have any legal implications in a civil suit, and that would satisfy your halachic claims for an apology.

[WoolSilkCotton]

MM3, that case from Canada you mention is indeed extraordinary.

If someone accidentally kills a close friend, and both families are good friends and from a tightly knit community, than such a scenario is possible.

However, when the 2 people are strangers, and one accidentally kills another, you have to worry about a civil suit in addition to charges by the police, and so every word must be carefully considered.

Even in the frum community, or any other close community, people do wrong to each other, sometimes accidentally, and they end up suing each other, even if apologies were offered.

If the girl in this current case asked her Rav what to do, he would probably say, "hire a competent attorney and follow his advice". That's the advice my Rav gave me.

Rav Shmarya says otherwise. Go figure.

[Nobody]

"Maybe Chinese clergymen should lecture to their community about what a terrible reputation their delivery drivers have, and how they are committing a 'Hillul Budda'?"

LOL.

I have to agree with Woolsilk, they can't apologize or do anything that even resembles "admitting guilt" because otherwise they have basically forfeited their case and compromised the legal proceedings ensuring they will be sued and get max penalty. I'm sure the girl isn't happy about this. It takes a real nut to imagine that she is.

[WoolSilkCotton]

+Mr. Apikoros | September 22, 2010 at 12:30 PM+

LOL! I can only imagine how many frumma knock on his door looking for a handout.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Apologies to the Stones:

Shattered, shattered
Frummie girls are texting dreams
Are still driving on the street
Look at him, he's in tatters!
He's a shattered
Shattered

Friends are so alarming
My lawyer's never charming
Life's just a fabregen on the street
In Midwood
People dressed in body bags
Hit by traffic
Some kind of fashion
Shattered

Tragedy, and loneliness and text and text and text and text
Look at him, he's in tatters
He's a shattered
Shattered

All this chitter-chatter, chitter-chatter, chitter-chatter 'bout
schmatte, schmatte, schmatte -- I can't give it away on 13th Avenue
This town's been wearing tatters (shattered, shattered)
Work and work for love and texting
Ain't you hungry for acquital, acquit, acquit, acquit
Does it matter? (Shattered) Does it matter?
He's shattered.
Shattered

Oy, look at him, He's a shattered
He's a shattered
Look at him- he's a shattered, nu

Pride and joy and greed and texting
That's what makes Midwood so vexing
Pride and joy and frummie dreams and still driving on the street
And look at him, he's in tatters, yeah
He's been battered, what does it matter
Does it matter, oy vey
Does it matter, oy vey, he's a shattered

Don't you know the crash rate is going up, up, up, up, up
To drive in this town you must be tough, tough, tough, tough, tough!
You got black hats on the west side
Yekkes uptown
What a mess this town's in tatters he's been shattered
His brain's been battered, splattered all over Brooklyn

Oy vey, the court's full of money grabbers
Go ahead, bite the lukshen kugel, don't mind the maggots, huh
Shadoobie, his brain's been battered
The meat it comes around, it's
Glatter, glatter, glatter, glatter, glatter, glatter, glatter
Pile it up, pile it high on the platter

[WoolSilkCotton]

YL, you are the King of Kings County!

[WoolSilkCotton]

++It takes a real nut to imagine that she is++

And we all know who that is.

[Taj]

I've debated for a while whether to post a comment on this story, seeing that the moderator of this blog quite clearly has an agenda which no amount of feedback (even from some of his usual supporters) will sway. But any impartial person who takes one look at the picture above of the young woman in question will be struck at how broken up she appears and would have no problem believing that she would issue a heartfelt apology in a heartbeat if she had her druthers and disregarded her counsel's advice.

But, hey, it keeps those page hits coming.

[Shmarya]

I am not a Supreme Court Justice like you are, but a misdemeanor isn't a felony. Maybe it's a crime. But bail was only $5000.

In a few weeks the charges will will be pleaded down and settled.

In a few weeks, she'll probably be re-arraigned on felony charges.

But since she's probably orthodox, let's get the lethal injection ready.

She isn't "probably" Orthodox. She *IS* Orthodox.

As for making fun of your profession, I'm not doing that. I'm making fun of a doctor who filters everything through is prism of malpractice lawsuits, his daughter's driving problem, and his distaste for Chinese deliverymen.

[alternative childcare]

YL, you know I love you but this one is a bit tasteless. I know a dati girl who at age 18 had a similar accident that led to a death, stuff like this happens, and it really destroyed her life. Just because Shmarya portrays her in terms out of his Der Stuermer fantasy life does not mean that it is true.

[harold]

Harold, the technology you wish for is superfluous. People need to take responsibility, show some restraint, and turn off their phones when driving, or at the least ignore them.

So much easier said than done! Take my word, people need all the help that they can get. An incomming text is hard for many to ignore. One must deal with reality here. What I suggested will work if activated.

[alternative childcare]

Shmarya writes:
You create a chillul Hashem, you are obligated to do everything you can to minimize it or completely end it.

I can only imagine what you, Shmarya, would be required to do for atonement if this were true :)

[WoolSilkCotton]

If you think a 19 year old girl with no criminal record whatsoever, gets into a car accident at night because of (allegedly) texting while driving, tragically hits a guy on a scooter in front of her, and he dies of his injuries, and you think she'll get re-arraigned on a felony charge, you must be on drugs. Check the radon and carbon monoxide levels in your basement office.

[Devorah]

I'll ask again. Was she tested for drugs?

[WoolSilkCotton]

++daughter's driving problem++

My three kids are all in their 20's, all are successfully employed (unlike yourself), and are good citizens. They all have their own apartments, support themselves, and live in different parts of the USA.

So how are your kids doing, Shmarya?

[effie]

I'm sure the girl isn't happy about this. It takes a real nut to imagine that she is.

Nobody is claiming that she is happy. However, you have to be naive to believe that everyone in this position feels remorse. They don't. I have met some. One, a teenage girl, saw herself as the victim.

[itchiemayer]

I don't care that she is old enough to be married, have babies, serve in the army, vote, and whatever else a 19 year old can do. She is still a kid. Unless you are no longer a kid, you should know what I'm talking about. She made a devastating and horrible mistake, but it doesn't make her a bad person. This was not a calculated, thought out, and pre-meditated crime.
She should pay some sort of price for sure, but it doesn't make her a bad person!

[itchiemayer]

I meant to write "unless you are still a kid".

[WoolSilkCotton]

Thank you, Itchie. Those of us with kids that age know that she is still a kid.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Thanks, WSC. Sorry if you found this one over the top, AC. Have a good Yom Tov, all.

[Shmarya]

She should pay some sort of price for sure, but it doesn't make her a bad person!

Since most of us do not know her we have no way to judge her except by her public actions.

If police are correct, she was the cause of the accident and was driving negligently.

That does not make her a bad person if what you mean by "bad" is "evil."

But she's in a very bad situation. A life taken cannot be restored.

There isn't a way for her to fix this.

The most she can hope for is her actions from now on will be a positive role model for others, and that her actions from now on will prevent other deaths.

[Monsey Hocker]

The frummies called Israel Weingarten - the dude with a sweet tooth for his own flesh and blood - innocent and his daughter - who is not frum (why would she be with filth like her father railing her?) a liar. You think they'll care about some brain dead ricepicker? If you can't condemn a father raping his own daughter I guarandamntee you a little vehicular manslaughter ain't gonna ruffle any feathers.

[Monsey Hocker]

"This was not a calculated, thought out, and pre-meditated crime."

She certainly made a calculated, conscientious decision to text while driving. In other words, she put her needs above the safety of the community at large. That is selfish.

Say what you want - she is a shaliach of the malach hamoves and has some serious introspection to work through.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Oy Vay.

Brooklyn Teen Wins National Texting Championship

http://brooklyn.ny1.com/content/
top_stories/125848/brooklyn-teen-
wins-national-texting-championship

[harold]

The attorney can do this in writing, if he wants

I thought her attorney said that she was sorry?

[Shmarya]

I thought her attorney said that she was sorry?

"Both Rothberger and her mom declined to say if she was sorry as they left Brooklyn Criminal Court. But Kimmel said, "Of course she's sorry.""

He also said it was "merely" an accident.

But what he did not do is express any sympathy for the victim and his family, and his way of handling this was horrible.

[itchiemayer]

MH - chas v'shalom tomorrow or the next day it could be you that is the shaliach of the moloch hamoves. We are all one daydream away from possibly doing a similar thing while driving. Funny how you take this opportunity to bash "frummies". Did you read the story I posted earlier about my car accident? I owned up to it and considered the chillul Hashem ramifications. But she is only 19. I am in my mid-forties. Big difference in being able to process everything.

[A. Nuran]

I don't see what this has to do with Charedism. If she did the crime it has nothing to do with her religion and everything to do with everyday criminal irresponsibility.

That said, I hope she faces serious charges and an enormous lawsuit for this.

[alternative childcare]

A. Nuran- why do you "hope" this? Have you already reviewed the evidence and prosecuted the case?

[seymour]

l do feel that if the person she hit by accident the reaction would be diffrent and offer prayers for the victim

[A, Nuran]

ac, the reason you have a trial is to determine guilt or innocence. She absolutely deserves to go on trial to see if her actions were criminally negligent. And if they were, I hope she gets serious jail time.

[Menachem Mendel lll]

Since texting was so important to Nechama Rothberger I have no doubt when she explains this to a Judge and Jury they will fully understand.

[assist]

There would appear to be little prospect of a viable defense in a civil suit. It is now about how much. An early expression of sincere regret could have had an impact on the victim's family and the amount sought. That time has passed.

[Jif]

I'm also not clear on the relevance to Judaism.

If she was texting before and continued after actually hitting the guy, that is seriously deranged.

[Menachem Mendel lll]

Jif

Mr. Jif consider this sinareo if you may.
Nechama Rothberger an attractive 19 year old female was getting the scoop aka Lashon Ha'arah from her friends on a great looking guy with uber rich parents who are very sick and both are near death.

He has dated several other Hebraic-Judaic babettes in and around town and for whatever the reason he was not interested.

Nechama Rothberger is on deck and she is trying to figure out what everyone else did "wrong" so she can "do it right" in order to claim her prize of a mega wealthy millionaire's son in order to retire before the ripe old age of 20.

Mr. Jif if this did infact occur would you be willing to give Nechama Rothberger (who is criminally charged and before the courts) the benifit of the doubt and retract you statement and all references to her being "seriously deranged."

Thank you in advance for you co-opeation and a frailachin Seekes and Simches Toyreh to you and yours.

[Menachem Mendel lll]

"Emotionally, we're in turmoil," said his daughter Anna Lin, 29.

VERSUS

The girl's attorney and family can't even issue a brief, coherent statement showing empathy for the victim's family and hoping for his recovery,

MAKES ME PROUD TO BE A JEW.

Tikkum Olam at it's finest!

Jews came a loonnng way from civil march walks side by each with MJK.

We have evolved as a Hebraic-Judaic species from "may I help" you to "fuck you."

I say "we" because I am held morally responsible for this senseless crime against an innocent hard working immigrant and family man that in so many way echos the stories of millions of Jews who made their way through the gates of Ellis Island hoping to build a "life and "future" with their Jewish families.

When I davened, shokeled and tapped my chest during the Al Chaiyet tefela last week I specifically thought of this sensesless crime Nechama Rothberger committed with reckless disregard for human life and the safety of others.

When it comes to "our" scared custom of
Bikkur Holim The Rothberger Meshpooheh, no speeeky eengleesh or yeeedeesh.

Nice.

Very nice.

[Menachem Mendel lll]

Shabos is almost over then all of you closet frummies can post.

[Not-so-sceptical]

It's nice to see, WSC, that you are not a Shmarya kool-aid drinker, and that you actually =disagree with him sometimes.

[Successful Messiah]

"Shmarya, please let me know just what it is you do for a living, so I can mock you, just as you mock me."

I can fill you in. He sits around in his mother's basement in his underwear and schnorrers money on his website.

"Watch that, WSC. My favorite cousin lives on E. 25th Street between Quentin and Av. R. Possibly the only secular Jew (along with his wife) left on that block."

There is no East 25th Street between Quentin and R.

"But what he did not do is express any sympathy for the victim and his family, and his way of handling this was horrible."

I may not be an anesthesiologist and can't claim to be an expert on brain death, but I do know a thing or two more than you about how these things are handled. This young lady and her mother simply were not talking to the press, period, end of story. They didn't say that they are not sorry and no inference can be made from their refusal to respond to any questions which, as has been suggested, is probably based on the advice of their counsel. I advise clients involved in criminal proceeding (not these type of proceedings - only white collar-type crimes) and my advice to them is don't talk to the press or anyone else for that matter, don't even say hello or good bye - just keep your mouth shut. Public statements by their counsel would be completely meaningless at this stage and such statements are not customarily made unless the counsel in question likes the publicity other than perhaps a perfunctory statement about the client pleading not guilty and is looking forward to his/her day in court. At this stage of the game, the only communications are typically between counsel and the prosecutor's office. In short, Scotty is dillusional about it being customary for counsel to issue some sort of statement on the girl's behalf.

[Shmarya]

This young lady and her mother simply were not talking to the press, period, end of story. They didn't say that they are not sorry and no inference can be made from their refusal to respond to any questions which, as has been suggested, is probably based on the advice of their counsel. I advise clients involved in criminal proceeding (not these type of proceedings - only white collar-type crimes) and my advice to them is don't talk to the press or anyone else for that matter, don't even say hello or good bye - just keep your mouth shut. Public statements by their counsel would be completely meaningless at this stage and such statements are not customarily made unless the counsel in question likes the publicity other than perhaps a perfunctory statement about the client pleading not guilty and is looking forward to his/her day in court. At this stage of the game, the only communications are typically between counsel and the prosecutor's office. In short, Scotty is dillusional about it being customary for counsel to issue some sort of statement on the girl's behalf.

No. In "short," you are a moron and I pity your clients.

First of all, the family did talk to reporters. See the Post story where there's a quote from the mother.

Secondly, the point – which you obfuscate – is that the family is identifiably Orthodox Jewish and, as such, has responsibilities to the Jewish community beyond covering their own asses.

Unlike what you claim, attorneys customarily express defendants' sympathy for the injured and their families.

They do so because, if they do not, their clients look like insensitive assholes.

And no, oh dull messiah, I do not live in my mother's basement or in any other part of her home.