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August 25, 2010

OU's Rabbinic Authority Says Do Not Call Law Enforcement On Child Sexual Abusers

OU logo Rabbi Yisroel Belsky says calling police or the D.A. to report child sexual abuse is wrong. Victims' families must bring their evidence to a beit din whose rabbis will decide if police and secular courts should be informed.

Today's online edition of the APP has a long article on child sexual abuse in the haredi community of Lakewood, New Jersey. (The article was in Sunday's print edition.)

It deals with the case of Yosef Kolko, an alleged child sexual abuser who is a nephew of the notorious pedophile Rabbi Yehuda Kolko.

Yosef Kolko just pleaded not guilty to charges of aggravated sexual assault and child endangerment.

The father of Kolko's alleged victim is a rabbi in Lakewood. When the son told his father that Kolko had sexually molested him, the father went to the District Attorney and Kolko was arrested.

According to the APP, Rabbi Yisroel Belsky, the rosh yeshiva of Torah Vodaas in Brooklyn and the Othodox Union's co-posek (rabbinic decisor) along with Rabbi Hershel Schachter of YU, opposes the father's decision to go to law enforcement:

"Such behavior (as that of the victim's father) wouldn't be tolerated'' elsewhere. "When your child tells you something, you don't go straight to a prosecutor, you go to a Bais Din and let them examine the (evidence).… "there's no evidence at all'' against Kolko.

Many leading rabbis in Lakewood also oppose the father's decision to go to law enforcement without first having a beit din review the case.

In late June those rabbis issued a kol koreh (proclamation)  against the father. According to a translation obtained by the APP, it reads in part:

"And if, in fact, he has transgressed and has gone so far as to bring the matter to the secular (nonreligious) courts, he is, perforce, obligated to do everything possible in order to remove any scintilla of accusation against the other party from the secular courts. And it need not be stated that it is forbidden (for him) to continue to cooperate with them (secular courts) and to assist them in their efforts to pursue a Jew.''

Interestingly, Rabbi Dovid Cohen, a posek in Brooklyn [this is most likely the same Dovid Cohen who is Ohel's rabbinic authority] was asked by a representative of the haredi community if the allegations against Yosef Kolko should be taken to the prosecutors. His view is the exact opposite of Rabbi Belsky's:

"Not only do I permit it, it is an obligation,'' he said he replied. "There are others who disagree. Those people aren't for molesters; they simply feel that there's a chance a person will be slandered. ... They feel it's not ethical to go to authorities until it's first verified by a Bais Din. That's where we differ.''

An unsigned letter titled "How [the child's father] Makes a Mockery of the Torah" was distributed with the kol koreh. It called the father's decision to go to law enforcement rather than to a beit din a "terrible deed." But it also threatened to publicize the names of the father's supporters if they do not "repent."

Prosecutors are looking into the letter and may charge its author(s) with witness tampering. The only name on the letter (besides the father) is Rabbi Abba Hershkowitz of the Bronx. Hershkowitz is a relative of Rabbi Belsky. It is unclear whether Rabbi Hershkowitz wrote or signed the letter.

You can read the entire article here.

Comments

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It is almost as though they are recreating the medieval kehilla. Sort of a de-assimilation and reconstruction of rabbinic rule much as Jews were under Christian, Muslim and pagan kingship 500 years ago.

With a total fertility rate of 6-8, they ARE the Nation of Israel -- if not now, then certainly in 20-40 years as assimilated Reform Jews with their miniscule 1.6 kids die off.

In light of this I am not surprised that Israel has now decided to create all-Haredi battalions mixing Torah study with kung-fu and rappeling. They really don't have a choice. The Israeli Army will become an Jewish Army of God just like the Muslim Armies are. And all in my lifetime. Fascinating.

Rav Belsky is behind the times.
BTW, Rav Eidensohn of Daas Torah fame is apparently going to be releasing a source book on this subject shortly.

Any individual found guilty of the sexual abuse of a child must be punished by death. The Tanach is quite clear what the penalty for this evil crime should be. If we were to hang every adult alive today who has sexually abused a child there would not be enough rope on the Planet to do the job, so we must enforce new laws to stop any further heinous actions. Imagine if every human being alive today had to confess all their crimes. The merit/demerit tally sheet would be fascinating for all to see. G-d does in fact have a cosmic spreadsheet on the dead and the living. He keeps the score so-to-speak. He also makes sure that wisdom flows through the zeitgeist to the most righteous of an age. If these people are followed the very fabric of the universe is protected. We are living in extraordinary times. The scales of justice are being tested in the divine court. We will see how good the various leaders are in the coming days and weeks...

Headline should read:

OU's Rabbinic Authority Says Do Not Call Law Enforcement On Child Sexual Abusers First

They are not saying to NEVER call the police, they are saying first call their rabbi then a determination will be made if the next step is to call the Police.

From the article: "Those people aren't for molesters; they simply feel that there's a chance a person will be slandered. ... They feel it's not ethical to go to authorities until it's first verified by a Bais Din.”

The problem is that the police department is infested with parasites known as “the media”. They are in such a rush to get out a story that to them people are guilty until proven innocent. Crimes like sexual abuse once one is accused leave a stigma that even if it is not true can cause the person irreparable damage and can take years (if at all) to be corrected.

Until the police can rid themselves of this infestation within their midst, going to a rabbi or Bais Din to see if the charges have any merit makes sense.

If the police and the secular legal system can keep things confidential until the guilt of the perpetrator is proven then I will say go to the police first since their investigative capabilities are superior.

We are talking about the father here. I am quite sure unless he was sure that his son was guilty he would not have gone.

The main problem is after the rov has verified it is true will he then agree to go to the police. There is another blog here which I will not mention so as not to give the publicity and credence they relish. They claim to speak in the name of rabbonim but so far have not produced a single one. Their site is moderated and they only accept comments written by themselves. Their English in English letters or Hebrew letters confirms this. I tried to draw them out and they agreed that they want to keep the molesters anonymous and give him therapy. They names two therapists who have said they have nothing to do with them. They must be molesters themselves, scared of being caught and claim righteously that they only want to defend the innocent.
I wrote to them which they moderated and didn’t print that the Torah commands death and to be put out of circulation which prison today can achieve. I also wrote a wayward son is put to death for doing much less and not given the choice of therapy. The idea of therapy is alien to the torah which they seek to uphold. I also wrote which they surprisingly printed what deterrent according them has an abuser got. He wont be punished, will stay anonymous and will just carry on. They haven’t yet replied.

Yisroel Belsky, you're guilty of obstruction of justice. You'll be seeing your asshole buddies in Otisville soon.

Problem here is that the time expended in going to a beth din may seriously damage the evidence necessary to obtain a conviction. Plus, the requirement to first see the Beth Din is essentially Contempt of Court and Obstruction of Justice.

The Ultra Orthodox need to remember, we are not in czarist Russia, or pre-war Poland, this is not the 18th century and as much as they'd like to believe it, most members of the law enforcement community are not anti-semites. They will not use a Jew's lawbreaking as an excuse for a pogrom. The Ultra Orthodox of the US and Canada must remember that their ancestors came to North America for food and justice, where they could be left alone to practice their religion. Coming here did not give them license for their rabbinic courts to supercede the laws of the land. The Torah notwithstanding.

Harold you are wrong and Belsky is maybe lying.

Bes deim never allows one to go to the police.

To famous cases where the original kolco and the infamous mondrowitz. Both of them the beis dein said do not go to the police. because if they rule as per halacha, unless an adult saw the act they will not agree to go to the police since a child is not a witness according to halacha.

maybe you or belsky can enlighten us, and prove they are willing to go to secular court by naming 3 -4 cases when they said go to court

Sorry Harold, you are dead wrong. The rabbinic authorities have proven to be less than useless when faced with child sexual abuse in their communities. What was the father supposed to do, go to the beit din who would have told the father that his son is a liar, and that what he is doing is a shanda on the community, etc.

The beit din, like the catholic church, is more concerned with protecting its organizational backside (literally and figuratively) than it is with protecting the individual. The beit din like the catholic church would probably force the father and son to leave the community, or, they would suggest that the rabbi move elsewhere, so he could molest those unfamiliar with his reputation.

Furthermore, to avoid the appearance of impropriety and the issue of "dueling rabbis" (who has a better reputation, etc), which the beit din is incapable of sorting out, the secular authorities are the better parties to review the allegations. Those who think otherwise probably have a few skeletons in their closet and are afraid to have outsiders look to closely at their lives.

Rabbinic courts are merely arbitrators, and both sides have to agree to use them and abide by the arbitrator's decision.

Does anyone seriously believe that an accused child molester would agree to abide by an arbitrator's decision?

Is there any orthodox criminal, even a child molester, that Harold won't try to defend?
At least Lewin makes money doing this. Harold, you are just a fool.

Anon, what is the name of the other blog? Would love to read it.

Anyone rov or bais din (if u can find an honest one) who is versed in these halachos knows that 2 adult males are not required in such cases. Problem is these rovs know at best 3 or 4 topics in halacha and are just smart enough to play a good enough act as if they are knowledgable in other halachic areas. In truth even the best and honest rov cannot know all of torah and therefore will rule on this topic with the expertise of a borderline am haaretz given the severe handicap of ignorance of this matter. I've seen righteous rabbonim ruling the wrong way on these cases only later to admit they erred. But meanwhile it is the victim and his family who suffers greiviously from these mistakes.
Interesting to know if Shmarya can get an opinion from rabbi Shechter (Belsky's copilot @ OU) on Putz-Belsky's statements. Rabii Eidensohn has no shortage of halachic responsa reffuting Putz-Belsky's assinine words. Makes me think Sruli Belsky is still suffrering from the PTSD of growing up with his crazy grandpa around. Sick.

harold- i havent see one instance where a molester wasnt guilty have you? what in the world are you trying to prove that youre a fool thats very obvious you dont have to prove it

Both Rabbis Yisroel Belsky and Dovid Cohen have one thing in common they are protectors of confessed and convicted pedophile and Viznitzer chassid Rabbi Yom Tov Lipa (Lewis) Brenner (Hacohen) and his family which includes his son-in-law alleged pedophile Rabbi Ephraim Boruch Bryks (Halevi). Belsky is involved with Bryks and both (along eith other Rabbis) signed a siruv against a Rabbi in Las Vegas a few years back that was made public.

The fact is what rav in the above article that says to go to a beit din first has any knowledge of any beit din EVER givening permission to go to the police? It simply does not happen. All it does is compromise any possible future investigation, witnesses and evidence.

Rav Dovid Feinstein on reporting abuse to the authorities in a July 2006 interview with the pro-Tendler Jewish Voice (note Rav Dovid Cohen recruited him to the 2nd bais din on this in the Hafner sexual abuse case):
...
Rav Dovid Feinstein of the Lower East Side, in whose office the beit din was held, says the rabbinic court was called at the behest of the (removed) family who, somewhat belatedly, decided they wanted halachic approbation to call in the secular authorities. In fact, according to Rabbi Feinstein, this was not the first beit din that was called to adjudicate the matter. He maintains that, before going to the police in the first place, the (removed) had asked a beit din to decide what they should do. “When the beit din ruled that the family should not go to the police, the family decided the beit din was biased against them, and allowed the secular courts to take over,” says Rav Feinstein, who did not participate in that first beit din.

Personally Recruited
According to Rabbi Rottenberg, the second beit din consisted of five rabbis who were all personally recruited by Rabbi Cohen.
“He wanted to find the five best rabbis he could to sit on this beit din, because he wanted no arguments about the ruling,” says Rabbi Rottenberg, adding that when he hesitated to join, Rabbi Cohen called Rabbi Rottenberg’s parents to convince him to take part.
...
In general, Rabbi Feinstein says, it is a good idea for would-be accusers in the Jewish community to take their charges to a beit din before going to the police. “If the person is found guilty, the beit din would tell the accuser to go to the police; if the person is found not guilty, the beit din would tell the accuser to forget it,” he says. Asked if he knows of any instances in which a beit din referred a case to the civil authorities, Rabbi Feinstein says he does not.
...

http://getridofnuchem.blogspot.com/2010/08/same-old-song.html

Dont bother commenting unless your yiddish is good at bad language

It's pretty clear what the jist of this story is, Harold.

If you do go to the cops, you'll be threatened by the local rabbinical thugs, like this Rabble Hershkowitz.

Now go crawl back under your rock like a good reptile, Harold.

I dont think its nice of you to go after Harold. He really has no idea what a rabbi and beth din are these days.
The torah commands you to kill, yes kill a molester even today as a 'roidef' if that is the only way to stop him in the act.
Now tell me a rov who has the 'guts' to pasken according to the Torah.

If only they would keep the shulchan oruch!
He is right, though, that if it was a proper beth din if only they existed, one should go there first. but that is after the act.

The bais din system is not consistently honest or objective. Issues such as yichus, protecting a jewish institution such as a school, protecting particularly eminent families or rabbonim appear to influence their decisions. We are obligated to submit to the laws of this country. Laws prosecuting pedophiles, especially in a judicial system that presumes innocence until guilt is proven, protect everyone- including the jews who so often and inappropriately scream "Antisemitism" when one of our own is culpable.

This will lead to the outlawing of the Bes Din. As criminal cases are destroyed and evidence compromised the civil authorities will lose patience with this medieval relic.

When Belsky has a heart attack IYH I hope he calls his local bakery for help because going to a beis din when a rebbe sticks his putrid member in a child's rectum is just as stupid.

Harold you are wrong and Belsky is maybe lying.

Bes deim never allows one to go to the police.


If that is the case then they blew it. To bring it to a Bais Din is to render judgment which I feel that they are not equipped to do. I feel that just going to a third party, a Rabbi would do, is what is required to make sure that there is merit to the accusation before you go and destroy his life, then go to the police. Again, if he is guilty, then he should get what he deserves, just do your due diligence before you let the genii out of the bottle.

The media jumps to fast, almost never retracts, and never apologizes for the damage that they cause. Like the "gun toting Orthodox mom" who holds up liquor stores on shabbos. If you note, the story here at FailedMessaih still has in its headline that she is Orthodox, Mr Rosenberg, like a pit bull, will hang on to that headline despite the fact that it appears to be in error. All the other outlets that erroneously labeled her as Orthodox have changes their headlines and HTML tags with one exception – that’s right – FailedMessiah. He, like all the other media outlets, answers to no one.

Why wouldn't I believe my child over some pervert? Therefore, I would go to the police immediately.

This is unbelieveable, that a Rabbi should hold don't go to the police.
Is he insane? Maybe he should try having a hot dog stuck up is rectum under the supervision of OU.. He can then tell everyone it was Glatt Kosher.
When will we have Rabbinic QUALITY LEADERSHIP of the HIGHEST STANDARDS, rather than these clowns that make a farce of Torah, Talmid, our SAGES,etc.
When their own children or grand children are attacked by these predators, will they simply hold a dinner and give attributes to these mumzarim, or will they give them a completely new and full bris?
Then OU wants is honor and integrity, yet with Rabbis the likes of Belsky, and his rantings, I question the sanctity of OU.
It appears they are as perverted as Belsky, and I still remembe the LANNER case.

Anon: URL shorteners are your friend and they are free. http://goo.gl/oCxX

So, if we walk in and see some pervert doing our kid, who are we to believe? A beit din or our own lying eyes??!!

Harold, rabbis are not police officers. They are not criminal investigators. They are not courts. They are not fit to investigate or try criminal cases.

The proper place to determine guilt or innocence is not a religious scholar. It is the police. Anything else is obstruction of justice and an undermining of the legal system.

Harold, when it's one of your children or grandchildren, we'll see how you handle it.

It’s shocking, that people like Harold would demand that a Jewish victim should go thought two different trials, one- in front of a beit din, (Jewish court), two- in from of a secular court, in the mean time if there were any physical evidence, it would be degraded and the chain of custody would be lost, thereby saving the molester from the secular court system. Additionally, if someone goes to the police and the molestation took place back in time, they will not arrest the alleged molester, only if they have sufficient information and evidence to act upon, during the investigation they don’t expose the stories to the news, for the fear that they might taint the investigation. Finally I am wondering, when is it ok to go to the police? After a person raped once, ten, or just hundred times? When will you say ok, enough is enough, throw this beast where he belongs.

So, if we walk in and see some pervert doing our kid, who are we to believe? A beit din or our own lying eyes??!!

If you catch someone in the act, run don't walk to the police (after you give him a good kick in the you know where). But if someone comes out and says, I just remembered that Chaim Yankel diddled with my weenee 3 years ago, I would do my due diligence first before I go to the police.

Kol Koreh: "...he is, perforce, obligated to do everything possible in order to remove any scintilla of accusation against the other party from the secular courts."

This is called Obstruction of Justice, and will land you in the big house. Those issuing this proclamation should be brought before a Grand Jury.

>due diligence first

Due dilligence is reporting the allegations to trained forensic investigators, the police and child protection agencies NOT playing keystone cop and contaminating evidence and compromising any proper future inverstigation. If you want to protect the accused and the survivor contact the police immediately otherwise you will compromise any future investigation that can confirm the allegations against or innocence of the accused.

If you had a flu would you go to a beit din first?

If you were robbed at gunpoint would you call Rabbi Yisroel Belsky or the police first?

Mr Rosenberg, like a pit bull, will hang on to that headline despite the fact that it appears to be in error. All the other outlets that erroneously labeled her as Orthodox have changes their headlines and HTML tags with one exception – that’s right – FailedMessiah.

Please.

A person has been sending emails saying he is the woman's neighbor and she is not Orthodox.

That is why others changed their headlines.

The problem is, this man is not listed in any phone directory I can find online, or in any other type of registry. That includes listed and unlisted phone numbers.

I checked. I doubt the others did.

Why should I take the word of a person like this?

A few points:
1. Herhkowitz is NOT a Rabbi or an askan - he is just an unassuming, ehrliche yid (there are thousands of people who would vouch for his aidelkeit, tznius and supreme honesty)who is severely bothered by what several world-renowned poskim who are intimately involved in this specific story consider to be a serious breach in halacha.
2. This accusation (which until proven is only that) is destroying a young man's life.
3. Hershkowitz is NOT defending indefensible behavior!
4. If any of you Monday afternoon armchair quarterbacks sincerely cared about any of the people involved you would'nt be so merciless. You are playing right into the hands of the news outlets who will do anything to slander observant Jews. It's a terrible tragedy for both families involved. Let's not be so excited to knock down others. We are approaching the Days of Judgement; may the Almighty have mercy on us - as we have to others.
Kesiva V'chasima Tova.

Following this rule leaves the parents and maybe even the OU open to an Obstruction of Justice charge.

Herhkowitz knows nothing about the abuse of children. His ignorance is hurting good people. His actions help the molesters not those they abuse. Herhkowitz is wrong. Go straight to the police and report abuse.

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2010/07_08/2010_07_24_Lipner_OrthodoxFace.htm
...
An Orthodox couple from Lakewood are very special and heroic people. When they found out that their son was molested by a rabbi, they confronted the rabbi and got him to admit it.

But when the rabbi became defiant and would not go to therapy or agree to leave the synagogue, they went to the police and had him arrested.
...

A Caring Jew...

If you actually gave a shit about Jews you would be first in line supporting the father and damning the baby-rapers and their repulsive defenders. Since you're defending the corrupt system which hides rapists from justice your concern for your fellow yidden is noted, and probably not in the Book of Life.

Please.

A person has been sending emails saying he is the woman's neighbor and she is not Orthodox


and the fact that she committed the crime on shabbos plays no role whatsoever as to if she is orthodox.

Just what does it mean to be Orthodox anyway?

(ok, here it comes, smelly, child mollesting, stealing, money laundring - haha!)

People are confusing being Orthodox with being a tzadik. To be Orthodox is a way of outwardly practicing Judaism. Attributes like, buying kosher, holding shabbos, going to minyan (at least on shabbos), celebrating most of the holidays, sending your children to yeshiva. There are variations, MO, haredim, chassidim etc. Within Orthodox, as with all such classifications you have good and evil, so one can be “Orthodox” and cheat on your taxes, abuse children etc. That is not the role of the label of Orthodox. It is a lifestyle issue, a classification where people classified as such have common grounds and reference points. People classified as such can relate and talk about “where can I go to get a good price on glatt steaks”, “oy, yeshiva tuition is getting out of hand”, “where can I find a late minyan for mariv”.

Good and evil, following the laws of the torah, etc, while this is a requirement by g-d between, man and g-d, and, man and man, is not within the characteristics of the definition of being Orthodox. One can be a blue eyed Orthodox person and an evil Orthodox person. One can be a phony Orthodox (one who, for example, eats kosher at home but privately, when no one is looking eats treif). From my read about this woman she is not Orthodox. There is nothing in the article that implied that she is Orthodox, but with the facts presented most clearly implies that she is, in all probability, not.

A. Nuran,
Hypothetical. What if you knew the father...would you still support him?

There is nothing in the article that implied that she is Orthodox, but with the facts presented most clearly implies that she is, in all probability, not.

WPIX's original article's original headline stated the woman is is Orthodox.

That is why blogs identified her as Orthodox.

And, as I noted before, the campaign to have that Orthodox label removed is less than credible.

See Rabbi Dratch's "The 411 on 911: Resporting Jewish Abusers to the Civil Authorities" at http://jsafe.org/pdfs/mesirah.pdf. He shows why it is MANDATORY to go directly to the police without first going to Bes Din. He cites many sources including opinions by R. Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, R. Eliezer Waldenberg, R. Elyashiv, R. Herschel Schachter, R.Gedaliah Schwartz and others.

Corn Popper, I'd absolutely support him. When there's an allegation of a crime you go to the police. I don't care how saintly or how degenerate you are. That's the right thing to do. Obstruction of justice, witness tampering, destroying evidence and coercing people into staying away from the cops are Mafia tactics.

Harold, we'll set you up a special chavrusa session with R. Ben Zion Sobel of Yeshivat Neve Zion, shielded by the entire frum world including R. Elefant and Feldheim Publishers, despite it being public knowledge that he molested dozens of kids entrusted to him for their year in Israel.
When you try to show your ruptured sphincter to the bet din they will say you aren't tzanua and can't be believed.
Learn well!

WPIX's original article's original headline stated the woman is is Orthodox.

That is why blogs identified her as Orthodox.

Is WPIX, the original source, sticking by its headline or have they retracted.

It is very likely that members of a beit din hearing a molestation case could be charged as accomplices or an accessories depending upon the jurisdiction. This is in addition to possible obstruction of justice or other charges.

Is WPIX, the original source, sticking by its headline or have they retracted.

The headline is changed but there is no retraction or correction posted.

Usually this would mean they have sources who say she is Orthodox, but they also got flack from people claiming she isn't Orthodox.

So they pulled the term because it isn't a critical part of their report, because their audience is very broad.

Harold,

I heard Avi Moskowitz explaining something like that when it comes to child molestation which is a horrific crime and sometimes the police overreacts and makes an arrest immediately because emotion takes over.

If someone is arrested for fraud etc and is found not guilty,he can still get back his name. Unlike child molestation even if found the arrest had no basis, his name is tarnished.

So perhaps maybe that's the reason why the rabbis don't want the police first.


I think any rebbie who says do not go to the police is a secret member of nambla

Shmuel Mayer Katz is full of BS. When parents and many parents took a pedophile to din torah, bais din after thorough investigations by professionals pronounced the pedophile guilty katz ran around saying the person is innocent and bais din and the professional made a mistake.. He made a circus out of it and the rosh hayeshiva malkiel kotler also said bais din was wrong and even learned with the pedophile bechavrusa do me mechazik him.

So they pulled the term because it isn't a critical part of their report

Ahha, but for the FailedMessiahnites, the fact that she may be Orthodox is critical! After all, this is a characteristic of frum mothers to pack a pistol and go out after lighting her shabbos candles and hold up liquor stores and rob banks.

hey i heard rabbi salomon closed the beth din in lakewood so that people would go to the authorities. rabbi i salute you and now have a new admiration for you.

Who is on Lakewood Hatzalah?

anyone who knows the father knows he is a true tzaddik and yurei shomayim
that is what really is the point
we are dealing with a true tzaddik

Shmarya,

A friend of mine, formerly of Omaha,NE is trying to expose the cover up of a convicted sex-predator by the Orthodox Jewish Community. Seems that the Orthodox Community has been harboring him and he is a regular attendee at Sabbath morning services.

Maybe you can be the first to break the story. If you are interested, email - milesehrenkranz@aol.com

cheskel- if someone is innocent he has nothing to fear the opposite is true for someone who isnt

Ok, I say let the frumma never go to the police when their children are molested. Stick with your corrupt Bais Din system.

Meanwhile, more and more of your children's lives will be destroyed, and even more will abandon the vile world of orthodoxy.

Ok with me if that's what the frumma velt chooses.

Rabbi Salomon did close down his Bais din. Even after being pressured by the RH he kept it closed. He believes the police is the only way to go in todays times.

Rabbi Solomon shut it down after the BMG Roshei Yeshiva sabotaged it!

Sure WSC. You know nothing whats going on. Most children are molested on a daily and hourly basis. Every rebbe in chedar is a potential molester if he didn't already. Every frum bus driver is a molester. And lest not start with the mikvahs,oh boy whats going on there.

Lol he still could have have opened. He has a lot more say and a lot more of a following then all the Rosh Hayeshiva combined. Besides read what I wrote Reb Malkiel begged hi to reopen for this case. He pressured him in every way possible. Rabbi Salomon had a tough battle but made sure it did not reopen.

Shmarya,

A friend of mine, formerly of Omaha,NE is trying to expose the cover up of a convicted sex-predator by the Orthodox Jewish Community. Seems that the Orthodox Community has been harboring him and he is a regular attendee at Sabbath morning services.

Maybe you can be the first to break the story. If you are interested, email - milesehrenkranz@aol.com


Considering the standards of the media as seen with the "Orthodox" liquor robbing mom, what you have described is enough to publish - So here it is:

Orthodox Community of Omaha NE is harboring a convicted sex-predator.

Not only are they harboring him, it has also been reported that he is a regular attendee at Sabbath morning services!

Hat tip "Tom N"

Sources? Who needs sources, “A friend of mine” is good enough!

"I think any rebbie who says do not go to the police is a secret member of nambla"

Seymour, compared to most Brooklyn perveyim, NAMBLA is normal.

OK Cheskel, so just occasional child molesting is acceptable in your world. Very nice.

Lu Chachmu Yaskilu, when will they ever learn? These "rabbis" want to set us back five years in all that we have accomplished. I thought once the Baltimore rabbis mea culpa came out, that these attitudes will change. I thought once the Noveminsker talked about "tikkun haovar", that things will change. Nothing has changed. In fact, they have become more brazen in declaring to the world that they will continue to protect child molesters. The wellbeing of the child molester and the financial assets of their institutions will continue to take precedence over the safety of our children. Evidently it doesn't matter to them how many children are molested. Hundreds, thousands, they don't care. Go the bais din they say. They will take care of everything. How many child molestations have all the batei dinim in the world combined sent to the auhtorities? How many child molesters have been put out of commission by these "batei dinim"? The answers are obvious by the fact that child molestation is rampant in so many frum communities. It's time for another mea culpa, this time with ALL the leading authorities' signatures. They can copy and paste the Baltimore letter and sign it. This will shut the mouths of these imbecilic enablers who made a broad chillul hashem by talking to the press about their nonsensical and dangerous opinions.

I don't wish to associate myself with the offensive statements about Rav Yisroel Belsky that a few commenters have made. However, the citation attributed to him by the Asbury Park paper is a violation of the 5th portion of the Shulchan Aruch - common sense. There is nothing worthwhile to be gained by first resorting to a normally constituted bet-din for a criminal case, particularly one involving a life-changing trauma to a minor. A bet-din, as has been noted, has no investigative credentials or enforcement power. Besides, the testimony of a minor has no halachic standing in a bet-din. Why would the father involved consider a bet-din as a first resort, when they are most likely to simply dismiss the accusations as unsupported? Moreover, Rav Belsky has been associated with the Kolko family. His volunteering an opinion about the charges against this Yosef Kolko merely feeds into those who wish to besmirch his reputation. The father is, apparently, a prominent member of the frum Lakewood community and stood to lose much by making an unfounded accusation. It stands to reason that he questioned his child carefully and became convinced that sexual abuse of the child had occurred repeatedly. The credibility in this case lies in the father and not in his rabbinic detractors.

Harold is guilty of the "No True Frummie" fallacy. I have renamed it because I don't want to cast aspersions on the Scottish nation.

No true Frummie is honest. So if you encounter a frum Jew who doesn't try to screw you in business, he's not really frum, and in fact, just finished eating his Quarter Pounder with Cheese.

No Mr. A. Liars, cheats, rapists and thieves are in every group as are good, honest, kind and loving people.

Believe me, if Yudi Kolko had cornholed Belsky as a child he wouldn't be singing this BS about besi dins. Beis din rabbis are whores, they just make sure you prepay before they eff you.

Why eff you? say it out loud and clear as usual.

See you all tomorrow

This article should be no surprise coming from an organization that hid and protected a known child molester for well over 10 years. The OU is clearly just continuing its practice of allowing child molestation to continue in the community.

Cheskel

lets go name one case where beis din has said go to the police

A. Nuran, you missed my point. Of course there are many frum Jews who are honest. A lot more than who are dishonest, I'm sure.

I was just molding the "no true Scotsman" fallacy to better fit this blog.

harold

I agree with most of what FM says but not all. However, he does stick to fact and does not make stuff up

Mr. A., fair enough if more than a trifle unkind. Maybe we should develop a No True Frum Scotsman Fallacy.

Gladys,

Hold your horses. The haredi community is already showing signs of financial stress. I doubt that they could continue growing at their present pace.

Look at the E.G. case in lakewood.
They went to bais din, who then brought in professionals(Two very respected individuals in their field) and found him guilty.SMK decided that not only was the bais din wrong and lets leave the molestor free to ravage our children but he insisted as the rov of Hatzolah that HE BE LEFT ON AS A MEMBER!!! Yes folks, if you call Hatzolah in lakewood for your kids.....

Rabbi Hershel Schachter, the other co-posek of the OU, says that in cases of child molestation you go to the police FIRST. He has a tape on the subject. I think you can download it from yutorah.org.

Rabbi Hershel Schachter, the other co-posek of the OU, says that in cases of child molestation you go to the police FIRST. He has a tape on the subject. I think you can download it from yutorah.org.

If memory serves me, what he says is that when there is absolute proof (you catch someone molesting a child) you call police.

When you have suspicions of abuse but not proof, you should ask a posek.

The gray area in between those two things could go either way, depending on how you understand him.

Rabbi Hershel Schachter, the other co-posek of the OU, says that in cases of child molestation you go to the police FIRST. He has a tape on the subject. I think you can download it from yutorah.org.

Here is a link to the talk you referenced and to a clarification issued by RHS after he was challenged:

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2009/10/mesira-when-can-an-orthodox-jew-inform-on-or-testify-against-another-orthodox-jew-345.html

My recollection appears to be correct.

the problem with Bais dins today is that they are tainted. They have been hippocritical on many occasions. many women get permission to go to the secular courts first and then to bais din for a get! this is happening every day and belsky and hershel schachter are allowing this. see
http://rabbiniccorruptionatrcc.blogspot.com/
therefore as far as Im concerned his rulings are worthless!

Save our Children,
I am involved in the Lakewood case you are alluding to. From what you have written here I think you are really mistaken as to the facts. I don't think that this blog is the place to discuss it though.
If you email me at inlakewood@gmail.com I can tell you where I think you are wrong and then you can make up your own mind.

the problem with Bais dins today is that they are tainted. They have been hippocritical on many occasions. many women get permission to go to the secular courts first and then to bais din for a get! this is happening every day and belsky and hershel schachter are allowing this

Please.

The problem with beit dins is that they do not enforce women's rights, which leads to hundreds of agunot.

And then we have the general corruption that so plagues them.

Telling a woman to go to secular court first protects her rights – and that is why you don't like it.

I just called the OU's Communications Officer. He very kindly took the time to explain the organization's position.

Rabbi Belsky was speaking for himself. He is a respected posek on kosher food matters and works for the OU in that capacity. He does not speak for them officially on other matters.

The OU's position is that the police should be contacted immediately in cases of suspected child abuse.

I would like to thank Mr. Olivestone for his clear, patient clarification in this matter. It puts my mind greatly at ease.

Rav Belsky is saying that Jews can't be licensed educational or health professionals. As mandated reporters they must immediately inform the authorities of any suspected abuse and they can't make this conditional on a rav's opinion.

Should YU and Touro close its professional schools? Should frum doctors give up their medical licenses and declare bankruptcy because they will never be able to pay off their medical school loans, stiffing the student loan companies?

Charlie, I don't think Rav Belsky thought it through. And if he did I'm guessing he believes they should have a Bush-style religious faith exemption from carrying out the parts of the law they don't like.

A father -- any father & esp. a rabbi --- knows his child. When child reports that someone did something 'bad' to him, he listens. Then asks simple questions: What did he do? Did he take your pants off? Show me what he did and don't be afraid.

After a 10 minute conversation the average father can make up their mind whether child's story is credible. He knows his child better than any Beis Din where child will be intimidated, scared, and victimized a 2nd time, with the best intentions.

In addition with the corruption going on in our community please deal with this scenarios:

1. The alleged rapist/abuser is a mechuatan of a Beis Din Member. You think?

2. The alleged rapist / abuser gave $25,000. to the rabbi's "Building Fund". You think?

3. The alleged rapist / abuser knows of some shenanigans (financial or otherwise) that a rabbi did years earlier, and has let them know in uncertain terms that HE will walk in to the IRS with the secret tapes he has from them

And so on and so forth.

The rank & file is sick & tired of our leaderships corruption in all areas.

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