Haredim To High Court: Exempt Us From Teaching Core Curriculum In Our Schools

"People worry about matriculation exams, they want their son to have a job. Why, are rabbis starving? God provides, provides any living being. What's the matter? He'll have a living, he'll have everything. He'll be a rabbi, a Torah scholar, a rabbinical judge, they'll give him lots of money. Yes. Why should he think of other things?"

"It seems appropriate that Israel, which likes to pride itself on its multiculturalism, will not harm the uniqueness of the ultra-Orthodox students and force them, in a manifestly intolerant way, to study subjects which they do not desire."

'Haredim must be allowed to educate their children as they see fit'
Ultra-Orthodox students petition the High Court yesterday in response to move against exempting Haredi schools from the national core curriculum.
By Yair Ettinger

A Haredi education is no different that a state one, and even gives the students tools to enter the job market, a number of ultra-Orthodox students told the High Court yesterday in response to a petition against exempting Haredi schools from the national core curriculum.

The response, authored by a several former and current yeshiva students, led by attorney Aviad Hacohen, made pragmatic and principled arguments that there is no difference between Haredi and secular core curricula, and ultra-Orthodox parents should be able to educate their children as they see fit.

The original petition was filed by former education minister Amnon Rubinstein, former IDF logistics chief Elazar Stern, and Prof. Uriel Reichmann, president of the Herzliya Interdisciplinary Center. The petition was aimed at forcing the Education Ministry, the Knesset and the association of principals of Torah study institutions to roll back a Haredi exemption from the core subjects.

"The absence of core curriculum subjects from small yeshivas is no accident, but a deliberate move motivated by an educational, cultural and social ideology," Hacohen wrote in the 96-page response. "It seems appropriate that Israel, which likes to pride itself on its multiculturalism, will not harm the uniqueness of the ultra-Orthodox students and force them, in a manifestly intolerant way, to study subjects which they do not desire."

The ultra-Orthodox students are asking the panel, to be chaired by Court President Dorit Beinisch, to reject the petition. "The petitioners are trying to create social and political change by making inappropriate use of court processes," the respondents wrote. "It's clear that the subject at hand, even if it dresses in legal clothing, is fundamentally social, educational and political, and should be discussed in the Knesset, in the 'forum of ideas' in the media or social sphere, not in the courtroom."

The respondents say the petition ignores the intense yeshiva studies, which help students acquire learning habits, sharpen their minds, "and nurture fresh, critical and creative thinking."

"An average yeshiva student studies 14 hours a day, much more than his state school peer," they argue. "Reality shows that most of the yeshiva students who decided to turn to the job market are extremely successful and rise to prominent positions in whichever areas they join."

The students also maintain that "a democratic society, most certainly one concerned with liberalism and multiculturalism, must be inclusive of different hues and treat various sectors within it with patience and tolerance charted by the 'majority society.'"

The respondents note that students in democratic high schools also enjoy the liberty not to study certain subjects, including ones on the core curriculum, and that anyone who wants to can make up for core curriculum studies later and integrate in the job market. "Tens of thousands of Haredim can testify to that," they write.

Meanwhile Sephardi Chief Rabbi Ovadia Yosef said in his weekly sermon that graduates of state schools were "fools and Shabbat desecrators."

"People worry about matriculation exams, they want their son to have a job," the rabbi told his followers. "Why, are rabbis starving? God provides, provides any living being. What's the matter? He'll have a living, he'll have everything. He'll be a rabbi, a Torah scholar, a rabbinical judge, they'll give him lots of money. Yes. Why should he think of other things?"

Comments

[David]

I have no huge issue with the Charedim not educating their children in order that they can work, after all, teaching a child the skills to allow them a to work is something that Jews do not Charedim. However, if Charedim expect to receive welfare because of their unwillingness and inability to work due to their lack of education, then a condition of that welfare must be that their children follow a state curriculum so the cycle of ignorance can be broken.

[David]

The respondents say the petition ignores the intense yeshiva studies, which help students acquire learning habits, sharpen their minds, "and nurture fresh, critical and creative thinking."

Unfortunately their "sharp" minds and "critical" thinking don't motivate them to get jobs or fight.

[Dr. Dave]

God provides, provides any living being. What's the matter? He'll have a living, he'll have everything. He'll be a rabbi, a Torah scholar, a rabbinical judge, they'll give him lots of money. Yes. Why should he think of other things?"

There is the concept of not relying on miracles (lo somchin al hanes).

G-d does provide, by giving us the ability to use our minds, study, learn a trade or profession and earn a living. To do otherwise is to cheapen belief in the creator and in the world he created.

[Bartley Kulp]

While it is true that liberal multi-cultural societies tolerate other forms of education in their midsts, they do not fund them.

[Maarvik]

It is precisely this belief that "parnassah", or one's income, comes directly from the Creator (and its amount is allocated every Rosh haShanah and cannot be altered) that nurtures the worldview that does away with the value of secular education. However hard you try (learn a trade or not) will not change how much you earn. Yes, there is the concept of "yishtadlut", or one's own effort required, but that is only a condition for "drawing down" one's pre-allocated allowance from Heaven.
Until the Rabbonim make a paradigm shift and actually cultivate the idea of individual responsibility and self-sufficiency, the masses will keep on relying on Heavenly handouts as represented by the Bituach Leumi (National Insurance)in Israel.

[David]

Ridiculous statements by Rabbi Ovadia Yosef who said "People worry about matriculation exams, they want their son to have a job. Why, are rabbis starving? God provides, provides any living being. What's the matter? He'll have a living, he'll have everything. He'll be a rabbi, a Torah scholar, a rabbinical judge, they'll give him lots of money. Yes. Why should he think of other things?""

There is not enough work in the Rabbinical area dfor sall thos charedim who do not take teh matriculation exams.

[Alter Kocker]

The government should not back down. To refuse to allow a child to ignore the basic secular subjects is to insulate him or her from the surrounding world and condemn them to a life of ignorance. I don't care if studying torah and critical thinking is the underlying educational standard among the ultra-orthodox, the child must be given an even break. Ignorance keeps the chareidi child a slave to the rebbes.

[who knows]

"The students also maintain that "a democratic society, most certainly one concerned with liberalism and multiculturalism, must be inclusive of different hues and treat various sectors within it with patience and tolerance charted by the 'majority society.'""

Interesting how this hypocrites use ideas of liberalism, tolerance, multiculturalism to defend their way which express goals are: dictatorship of king or rabbis, intolerance, and uniculturalism

They are the same as muslims, who use liberalism to promote sharia state which is the opposite of liberalism

[seymour]

"People worry about matriculation exams, they want their son to have a job," the rabbi told his followers. "Why, are rabbis starving? God provides, provides any living being. What's the matter? He'll have a living, he'll have everything. He'll be a rabbi, a Torah scholar, a rabbinical judge, they'll give him lots of money.

what an idiot, who pays for all that stuff in Israel, the secular government getting taxes from the secular who work and have good jobs because they went to a good school

also what is wrong withe the core subjects?

[I am what I am not]

If the Heridem don't want to follow the government's core curriculum then they should have that right so long as the government doesn't have to provide funding. The Rabbis should readily agree to this, after all, G-d will provide the necessary funds.

[A E ANDERSON]

Haredi children do not study 14 hours a day. What they do, at most, is mindlessly mouth texts in languages nearly incomprehensible to them, rendering purported summaries in simplistic jargon Yiddish 'teitch." This is more of a devotional activity, like the recitation of psalms.

Even at the "pilpul" level, the haredi yeshiva method of learning is so "shevach" that the student remains in near total ignorance about the historicity of the text being studied, its scope or role in Judaism, and often the basic grammatical structures of the languages in which the texts are written.

Ask any yeshiva student to compose an essay on the scope, role and significance of the Talmudic tractate he is studying, comparing that with the tractates studied over the previous year, and I think most

Haredi parents have a right to teach their children whatever they want. What they don't have a right to do is violate laws that set levels of minimal instructional quality, quantity and attainment. To allow a parent to prevent a child from obtaining the elementary skills and knowledge that EVERY OECD CHILD is given amounts to CHILD ABUSE whose consequences are greater than any act of sexual abuse.

[harold]

Haredi children do not study 14 hours a day

Just because to you what they study is meaningless does not make it meaningless. Nevertheless, to give everyone the broadest opportunity for their future mandates that they study the core curriculum, there is plenty of time left within their 14 hour day for their limudai kodesh studies.

[rabbidw]

Whenever ANY Chareidi comes to me for charity, I will give him a blessing, and quote Rav Ovadiah Yosef, "God will provide." Since God will provide, do not ask me to do God's job.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

Haredim To High Court: Exempt Us From Teaching Core Curriculum In Our Schools

the picture or ROY in this article is a tad confusing if not misleading.
the fact that rabbi yosef pronounced himself against the secular school doesnot necessarily imply that he supports shas schools exemption of core curriculum.
he means that secular school graduates receive no adequate jewish education.
it is a well known fact that ROY's daughter founded a haredi college for women with his blessing.

[Jason]

I suppose it is not irrational to believe that "God provides" when you don't work and money magically appears in your bank account, a roof over your head, and food on your table. Just like seeing a couple of bucks under your pillow, it is not irrational (if you are 5 yrs old) to think maybe the tooth fairy really did put it there.

The real criticism must be leveled at the Israeli government/non-Haredi population and to Diaspora Jews, especially the Orthodox/Modern Orthodox in the US. They are the ones who have enabled this lifestyle where sitting in a yeshiva is considered the Path for every yid, regardless of whether he is a talmid chacham, or just a dim-witted schnorrer. You can't blame the cat for coming to your door every day for food, if you keep leaving food out at the back door. Well, I suppose you can but it won't do any good. Want the cat to stop coming for food? Stop feeding him.

[David]

Posted by: A E ANDERSON | Miami, Fla. | August 09, 2010 at 10:56 AM

Good post A.E.A. but you need to finish the third paragraph.

I agree that sitting for 14 hours per day mindlessly reading texts out of all historical or social contexts and discussing them with equally ignorant people is not true learning. At least, "not as we know it Jim".

[Bill]

Anderson,

Excellent little essay!