Dispute Over "Unauthorized" Weddings Spurs Satmar Hasidim To Dump Garbage On The Streets Of Kiryas Joel

The garbage-dumping that nearly blocked a main road in Kiryas Joel and led to disorderly conduct tickets for four men over the weekend stemmed from an ongoing fight over a wedding hall just outside the village where dissident community members have held services since January.

Garbage dumping in Kiryas Joel stems from dispute over unauthorized weddings
Chris McKenna • Times Herald-Record

KIRYAS JOEL — The garbage-dumping that nearly blocked a main road in Kiryas Joel and led to disorderly conduct tickets for four men over the weekend stemmed from an ongoing fight over a wedding hall just outside the village where dissident community members have held services since January.

For several weeks, zealots had been littering the village with fliers denouncing the nine young couples who have wed at the B'Nai Yoel hall in Woodbury without the approval of Rabbi Aaron Teitelbaum, the leader of Kiryas Joel's main congregation and grand rebbe to one faction in the divided Satmar Hasidic movement.

Enraged that the fliers had photographs of the grooms and phone numbers for the couples, their families and the rabbis who officiated, protesters sent out a text message last week declaring a “Code G,” the signal to dump bags of household trash on top of any piles of fliers too numerous to remove.
The goal was to force the village to collect both the garbage and strewn leaflets.

Joseph Waldman, a dissident leader who said he was not involved with the protest, explained the reasoning behind the tactic on Monday and said he didn't condone it, even if he sympathized with the frustration that led to it.

“There's a very understandable reason behind it,” he said. “It became a desperate situation.”

Waldman said callers have been harassing the people whose numbers were listed in the fliers.

Dissidents resorted to dumping trash only after repeatedly complaining to the police and coming under attack while trying to pick up and remove the fliers, he added.

The leader of Kiryas Joel's main congregation countered Monday that dissidents have often distributed similar fliers against their targets – including him last winter, while the two sides were battling over a dissident synagogue that has been shut down by court order.

“The streets were white every morning with fliers against me and others working under me, listing all our numbers,” said David Ekstein, president of Congregation Yetev Lev. “I don't think you have seen me throwing garbage on the streets ‘to force the village to remove them.'”

The garbage dumping did force a street cleanup, as intended. By Monday, as a result of those labors and two days of torrential rain, the streets in Kiryas Joel were mostly clean.

[Hat Tip: Burich.]

Comments

[seymour]

I think I will make a road trip to see the action as it happens.

I will bring my dogs they might get a kick out of it too

[A. Nuran]

Unauthorized weddings?

[harold]

The garbage dumping did force a street cleanup, as intended. By Monday, as a result of those labors and two days of torrential rain, the streets in Kiryas Joel were mostly clean.

B"H the streets are clean and there were no garbage bin fatalaties.

Lets hope it can remain this way till at least after the yom-tovim.

[Critical minyaN]

Reb Aharon is insisting on his droit de signeur. That's what this fight is really about.

[Critical minyaN]

Brilliant fucking strategy by the bnai Yoel. Make the garbagemen come by dumping extra paper. Fuck the ahoroni shitheads.

[jay]

Seriously.. dumpsters ? garbage dumped in streets? What is this obsession Hassidim have with refuse?

[ah-pee-chorus]

If there's one thing a delusional cult cannot withstand it is dueling cultleaders. Heck, we can see that even having a dead leader is OK as long as there is agreement as to which dead guy is the moshiach. So I propose a solution in which both sons claim that their father never really died and is the true moshiach. They can even set up a pretty red chair for him in the beis medrash.

[harold]

Seriously.. dumpsters ? garbage dumped in streets? What is this obsession Hassidim have with refuse?

They are basically non-violent - in the "violent" sense i.e. guns, knives, bats, chains, etc. They still have a need to show disapproval so they hoot, holler, push (rarely) and throw garbage. Trash is free, readily available, and is annoying enough to register their displeasure.

If a child is upset they will strike out using what is at hand, usually it is their hands (duh) and they will whine, scream and cry. What we have here is an adult(?) version of that.

People need to vent, as long as it is not violent (as in maim and kill).

[seymour]

Maybe George Mitchell and Hillary Clinton should get involved?

[Shlomo]

critical minyan - "droit de signeur" lol
What no one has commented is the publishing of the names and photographs of the newlywed couples and the subsequent abuse they have received from other so called chasidim.
I'm sure this must be an illegal invasion of privacy apart from halachic implications heck these couples are only indirectly involved

[Menachem Mendel lll]

This is Ahavas Yisroel?
This is ve ahavta et rayeha kamoha?
This is Tikkun Olam?
This is Tzinus of the nefesh?
This will bring the Moschiach?

Criminals should be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[David]

What is this obsession Hassidim have with refuse?

It represents the true "Essence of Chassidus".

In general, Chassidic communities all over the world are full of litter and for those hard working non-Chassidic Jews and Gentiles charged with managing such communities and institutions it is a full-time job trying to keep them operating to acceptable standards.

[Radical Feminist]

Semour writes "I will bring my dogs they might get a kick out of it too"

I wouldn't do that if I were you, they would probably attack and kill your dog.

[A. Nuran]

RF, it depends on what he means by his "dogs". If he means something with four legs, a tail and a snout, then you're probably right.

If he means his homies as in "'Ssup dawg" it could be a whole different party :)

[Reader]

“It became a desperate situation.”
They don't know what "desperate" means.
They have way too much money and time on their hands.
Abnormal lifestyles breed abnormal minds.
"The sleep of reason produces monsters."
This is the epitaph over the sorry state of contemporary Orthodoxy.

[Critical minyaN]

Feh. This fight is fun and harmless. Let the Jews play wrestle. The whole holy town needs a diversion.

[David]

Semour writes "I will bring my dogs they might get a kick out of it too"

I wouldn't do that if I were you, they would probably attack and kill your dog.

Posted by: Radical Feminist | August 24, 2010 at 12:06 AM

It horrifies me that the Charadi kids I see are not really taught to respect or understand animals. A consequence of this is that they are particularly scared of dogs. Normal people realise that showing fear in front of an animal, especially domesticated ones that have been bred, taught or have learned to read human facial expressions (e.g. dogs) is a sure recipe for disaster.

[Dr. Dave]

And so another Elul passes in the city of brotherly hate.

[Monsey Hocker]

Why don't these sexually repressed faygots just get it over with and start banging each other like good little queers instead of blowing off their steam with all this foreplay and repressed angst?

[Mr. Apikoros]

All of Kiryas Joel is trash, so how can one tell the difference? Maybe there are degrees of rubbish.

[harold]

Feh. This fight is fun and harmless. Let the Jews play wrestle. The whole holy town needs a diversion

More like mud wrestle. Listen, if a protest is too peaceful in that it inconveniences no one then it is a waste of time. Might as well stay at home and protest there. A lot of good that will do. The purpose of a protest is to bring to public attention or the attention of relevant people or organizations your grievances without the use of violence and minimal disruption or damage.

Throwing trash appears to work since it got the attention of FailedMessaih! Could you ask for any better coverage?

[Barry]

These scoundrels should be thrown in jail, and the key tossed away. Maybe then the inmates will be able to make Mensches out of them. By hook or crook!
These fanatics are destroying our reputations for GOOD citizenship, honor integrity, fairness, which the cultists DO NOT HAVE!
Not it's time for them to start decrying antisemitism, and the rest of the hogwash.
When will the Rabbis stand up and be counted to be leaders, and MENSCHes, SHOWING MORAL COURAGE TO RIGHT AND WRONG TO COMMUNITY AND STATE LAWS.

[effie]

If anybody killed my dog, I would kill them.

[justayid]

"If there's one thing a delusional cult cannot withstand it is dueling cultleaders. "

Is there any actual evidence of folks leaving Satmar cause of the dispute? I would LOVE to welcome ex-Satmar into my Masorti shul, or even see them join other hassidic groups, or MO, or Chabad. But I don't see any evidence that its happening.

Both factions seem to be building more shuls, yeshivot, etc. It seems to be "fight the zionists as if there were no internal Satmar makhloikes, fight the internal Satmar enemies as if there were no Zionists"

[Menachem Mendel lll]

@ effie
If anybody killed my dog, I would kill them.
-------------------------------------------
ABSOLUTELY.

Your pup is your buddy and friend.
He is also a direct decendant of Noach's percious cargo, a gift from Ha'Shem.

If I had to choose between a pup, katz or bunny or sheep and these bearded monsters, scammeres, backstabbers, cheats and Jewish Amadenajabs the choice is obvious.

[Alter Kocker]

I say a cage match between the two Teitelbaums. One knife, closed cage, both brothers bound by one wrist with a sturdy rope. May the best satmar win! Controversy over!

[larry]

Check out the ‘intolerance’ and ‘racism’ of hareidy Jews..

http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=10510&alias=tearful-funeral-for-robinson

[ah-pee-chorus]

justayid ------ I was just being tongue in cheek and was referring to the internal harmony of the cult. The lubavs seem to be handling their leaders continuing state of deadness better than the satmars dispute over which son has a more direct line to god. But of course with their level of brainwashing and programming combined with their lack of knowledge of much else, the dropout rate is surely quite small.
Whenever i come in contact with these cultists I try to engage them in rational discussion and I have had some successes.

[Yoel B]

Primates throw/smear feces at/on creatures who displease or frighten them. Human infants have to be trained not to do this.
Somewhat more civilized primates do this symbolically, either explicitly ("You s**thead") or implicitly, as in a nasty book review.
It's interesting that this rather primal behavior is a characteristic, and as this article shows, consciously planned behavior of a commmunity that is supposedly refined by Torah and mitzvot.
Of course, chareidim and chassidim cannot possibly be classified as "primates" since that would imply an old universe and evolution so they must be doing it for another reason.

[Radical Feminist]

Having found and rescued 5 abandoned puppies on the streets of Jerusalem, and a few kittens as well, I say. 'if you care about your animals DON"T let them near Meah Shereme or any Haredi neighborhood; as they have the habit of stoning the animals to death. I rescued one kitten that had been hit in the head by a rock and was scarred because of it.

[satmargoyim]

as they say...Goys will be Goys.

[Moshe aron kestenbaum, Williamsburg ODA]

I posted this awhile back. Ever heard of this? You get annoyed when politicians speak about education, because you know they wouldn't last 5 minutes in a classroom. The satmar rebbi proved it otherwise. he started something from scratch, he was pushing a carriage with 4 kids in it when he started his talmid torah on the east side, let me see you should duplicate this then talk, that is why I am a satmar chassid I admire what he did. You dont have to agree with his shito, understand?

[ah-pee-chorus]

+++ let me see you should duplicate this then talk, ++++

Posted by: Moshe aron kestenbaum, Williamsburg ODA | August 24, 2010 at 12:34 PM

So anyone crafty and charismatic enough to start a school or a cult which attracts delusional followers should be praised ?
The majority of satmar I meet can't form a sentence in English despite having lived in America their entire life. You should set the bar a little higher for those you wish to follow. And if his shita is moronic, and his followers act like animals then he is not deserving of any praise. Scorn is more appropriate.

[jancsibacsi]

MOSHE ARON KASTENBAUM- IS YOURE FAMILY FROM RATZFERT THATS UJFEHERTO HUNGARIAN?

[Moshe aron kestenbaum, Williamsburg ODA]

Yes my family is from ratsfert,Ujfehrto Hungary. My family was in the horse manure business (Horse shit)and also chicken manure that was used for Soil Fertilizers. it stinks terrible so they used to call my father "The stinker" when it came to shidichum they had to leave town because who would want to make a shiduch with a stinker

[A. Nuran]

I still don't understand how a wedding can be "unauthorized" if the bride and groom are free, unencumbered kosher adult Jews. Isn't being fruitful and multiplying more important than following a particular rabbi? Isn't a rabbi technically unnecessary if there's a gift, a ketubah, vows, witnesses and consummation? And isn't there a reason it's commanded to build a synagogue only after there's a mikvah in place?

[David]

Is there any actual evidence of folks leaving Satmar cause of the dispute? I would LOVE to welcome ex-Satmar into my Masorti shul, or even see them join other hassidic groups, or MO, or Chabad. But I don't see any evidence that its happening.

There needs to be an outreach group that helps these people leave the cult and be deprogrammed. Unfortunately, I don't see this being easy because the cultists are so disconnected from reality that they don't even realise how bizarre and unacceptable their lifestyle is.

[jancsibacsi]

david- you hit the nail on its head the truth hurts theese bozos dont even realize how odd they are bizzarre call it that, and disconected from reality they are its like someone making a mockery of himself acting insanely

[jancsibacsi]

moshe aron kestenbaum- kenst mir kishen in tohes fershtiess vus ih shreid dir

[justayid]

"There needs to be an outreach group that helps these people leave the cult and be deprogrammed. Unfortunately, I don't see this being easy because the cultists are so disconnected from reality that they don't even realise how bizarre and unacceptable their lifestyle is."

there are a couple of groups, I think, but they seem to be mainly therapy focused and to reinforce the tendency of Haredi drop outs to become hipster/dropout types, rather than to integrate them into the mainstream Jewish community. I think this is because the idea of any group proseltyzing to its 'right' is too radioactive. I see the situation as more hopeful in Israel, where a drop out naturally enters secular israeli society.

[seymour]

to all they won't hurt my dogs since they know one or two commands in yiddish.
instead of saying give me paw I say geit shobbas and they shake my hand.

also I tell them that they should thank dogs every day since if not for the dogs they would still be in Egypt. Rashi says that god asks the dogs not to bark when the Jews left Egypt so not to alert the Egyptians and the dogs did not bark.

Therefore every time they thank Hashem for rescuing us from Egypt they must think of dogs and good they are

[A. Nuran]

Even Sufi Muslims who have an explicit religious aversion to dogs say "If all murids (chossids) had the virtues of dogs there would be no need for sheikhs (rabbis)."

Anyone who attacks animals for fun, especially ones he is not going to eat and which are not harming him is scum. I don't care how much Talmud he's studied or how long his beard is. He's lower than whale dung.

[Jeff]

@ah-pee-chorus: The majority of satmar I meet can't form a sentence in English despite having lived in America their entire life. You should set the bar a little higher for those you wish to follow. And if his shita is moronic, and his followers act like animals then he is not deserving of any praise.

Agreed, and let me ask you this, Moshe - with how much joy did your teachers tell you, as you were growing up, that all of we frei yidden would burn forever in gehinnom?

[A. Nuran]

Jeff, is the choice an eternity burning in gehinnom or an eternity locked up with those vances? Bury me in asbestos underwear.

[dovy]

Hassidic men = Girly men

[Jeff]

Meanwhile, Moshe didn't answer my question. Perhaps he has the decency to be embarrassed, although that would be rare for a Satmar. Usually, they have no problem telling us we're going to hell; in fact,they rather relish the opportunity.

[Moshe aron kestenbaum, Williamsburg ODA]

Jeff, Not true my rebbi never said that frei yidden will go to gehinom. the thing about isreal it bacame now the Republic of Thieves. Frum yidden are unwanted. The satamr rebbi said this 50 years ago..That a time will come when the zionim will spit on frum yidden and say go from here

[Jeff]

Moshe, I have it from multiple sources that your young people are taught we're all going to hell. I've experienced it first-hand; I've been told by a Satmar I'm going to hell. He rather enjoyed telling me.