Are They Smarter Than A 3rd Grader? State-Funded Haredi Teachers Fail 3rd Grade-Level Test

Half of those tested did not know how to complete the first line of the national anthem after having been given the three first words out of four. When asked the meaning of the word "Saturday," 65% did not know. Many spelled the words "spelling mistake" wrong. Napoleon was declared a Russian emperor and an IDF chief of staff. The boiling point was named 42 and 60 degrees Celsius and Israel was located in Europe.

Haredi teachers fail general knowledge test
How do you say Shabbat in English? Many ultra-Orthodox teachers don't know, nor could they tell Yedioth Ahronoth who Napoleon was; yet they still receive state-funded paychecks, often in cash
Amir Shoan • Ynet

A survey conducted among ultra-Orthodox teachers has uncovered a worrying lack of basic knowledge – including the words to the national anthem, Napoleon's nationality, and even the word for Shabbat in English.

Thus, for example, the Yedioth Ahronoth daily interviewed A., a 26-year old yeshiva student who tutors at a heder, or a religious elementary school, in Jerusalem.

"I go there every day for an hour, and receive $300 cash a month. It's not much, but it's cash so that's nice. It's great money for an hour of work a day," he said. As to the subjects A. teaches, they include Math, Hebrew, and "a little about the destruction of the second temple".

"Of course the content is suitable for the haredi sector," he said. "We don't teach Zionism."

When asked whether the students are taught subjects such as Science, History, Literature, or English – which are considered basic subjects by the state – A. answers, "Never."

He went on to describe the pupils' day. "After morning prayers, at 8:30, we enter the heder. In the morning we study Torah," said A. "Only the last hour of school is dedicated to basic subjects."

The study by Yedioth Ahronoth was a sequel to its report two weeks ago, in which the paper revealed that many of the schools receiving funds from the state for teaching basic subjects were actually teaching almost nothing on the Education Ministry's curriculum.

Calculations by the ministry show that around $7 million are going to waste every year because of this, and the lack of supervision in the schools. Two inspectors charged with maintaining the Education Ministry's standards were found to have made false reports on the number of hours of basic subjects being taught: By reporting on more hours of basic subjects the supervisors obtained extra funding for the schools.

An official at the Justice Ministry was unsurprised, and told the paper the schools had many adjustments to make before basic subjects could be taught. "They have no teachers and no books," she said.

Saturday: The day of the star?

Yedioth Ahronoth put together a test, which included 10 questions taken from lesson plans for grades 1-3 on the various basic subjects – Math, Hebrew, History, Civics, Science, and English. The exam, simplistic by all accounts, included questions such as: 'On which continent is Israel located?' 'Who was Napoleon?' and 'What is the square root of 81?'

The paper presented the test as a survey of general knowledge to 25 teachers from the haredi sector as well 25 teachers who work at state schools.

The results were shocking. Among haredi teachers, the average score was 59, with 40% of those tested getting five or more questions wrong. Half of those tested did not know how to complete the first line of the national anthem after having been given the three first words out of four. One answered: "I don't know and I don't want to know." Another wondered if it was a line from the bible. There were a few who knew the answer but could not recite the second line. When asked the meaning of the word "Saturday", 65% did not know. Among the answers were: The name of a month, the name of a meal, and "the day of the star".

Many spelled the words "spelling mistake" wrong. Napoleon was declared a Russian emperor and an IDF chief of staff. The boiling point was named 42 and 60 degrees Celsius. Israel was said to be located in Europe. One of those tested got nine questions correct. "Did I get 100?" he asked, but was told he did not, because he could not complete the first line of the national anthem. "In that case I got 101," he scoffed.

Teachers belonging to state schools received an average of 96, and many were surprised at the simplicity of the quiz. Some enlightened the auditor on the various subjects involved, such as Napoleon's beliefs and conquests. One teacher talked about the scale that preceded Celsius and Fahrenheit, which he said was computed by Sir Isaac Newton. Another recounted the history of the word 'Saturday', and explained that it was derived from the name 'Saturn'.

Granted, these teachers would probably not have excelled as well at questions on Torah and Talmud, but the paper stressed that the issue at hand was that of basic subjects, which the educators tested were supposed to be teaching at the time they were quizzed.

Certification required, but not enforced

The state has stipulated recently that haredi teachers must be certified by one of the various teaching colleges located throughout the country. Certification requires three years, and uncertified educators who were already teaching were required to complete two years of studies.

But reality paints an entirely different picture. Many rabbis have ordered haredi teachers to begin working first, and then consider getting certified. In addition, the inspectors ordered to make sure only certified teachers are working in the schools are the same inspectors who were revealed by Yedioth Ahronoth to be drawing up false reports on the basic subjects taught in schools.

And their conduct was found to be no different when it came to supervising the teachers' education. A quick check revealed that 15% of teachers were still in the process of achieving certification, while the other 85% had records with the Education Ministry which had never been verified. Because of the lack of supervisors, no one had gone over the files to ascertain that the teachers are certified, as per the new order.

Yedioth Ahronoth interviewed 10 haredi teachers from Bnei Brak, Jerusalem, Ashdod, and Elad, none of whom has a teaching certificate. Some of them were not even aware of the requirement, and were unfamiliar with the concept. When asked whether he would be willing to obtain such training one of the interviewees answered that his experience of 10 years in the field was more than enough. "I'm certain the rabbis won't allow this oppression to continue," he said.

'I'll never learn English at age 32'

In the haredi sector, any teacher of basic subjects (no matter which) is called a "Schreiber", or a writer. Usually, one such Schreiber is charged with teaching each grade all of the basic subjects they are meant to study.

When basic subjects are taught in haredi schools, it is usually at the end of the day, when both student and teacher are tired, and in many cases they are relinquished entirely. This is problematic because these are the only studies the haredi children have in common with the Western world, and involvement in the job market becomes nearly impossible for those who don't learn them.

Many economists believe this is the reason 65% of haredi men are unemployed. "Schreiber is a derogatory term," says R., a 32-year old haredi man who has recently begun to study in secret at the Open University.

"If we flunked the Schreiber subjects or cut class everything was fine, as though nothing had happened. The only thing that was important was Torah studies, at which we had to excel and get good grades. There was a test on the Talmud almost every week, but there were often no tests on Schreiber subjects, or just one a year," he said.


"I will never forget the shame I suffered when I tried to make up what I lacked. The courses I take at the Open University are also attended by secular and National-Religious people, and often when I ask questions people stare and make fun of me behind my back. I don't know English to this day, and I doubt that at my age I will be able to learn it."

'No one knows what they teach'

Girls are a different matter. Their education has vastly improved over the past few years and most study all of the basic subjects in school. This revolution was led mainly by the (female) teachers, most of whom are certified and many of whom have gone on to study degrees. But most male teachers have only finished eight years of formal education, and because of the lack of supervision it is often difficult to know what, exactly, these men are teaching their students.

"No one actually knows what or how they teach, or what they know aside from Torah. Haredi education is largely obscured from the view of the secular public, and supervision is irrelevant. They do whatever they want," said Dr. Nahum Balas, who researches the education system.

Dr. Yaakov Lopo, another researcher, stressed the lack of standardized testing in the haredi sector. "When these tests do not exist no one knows what the level of knowledge and education is and there are no objective measurements," he said. "You can't check the teachers' level either. I think the teachers there are mainly chosen according to relations, contacts, and their level of knowledge on the Torah."

And unqualified teachers who are otherwise unemployed stand to gain quite a lot from such part-time work. A haredi family of six in which neither of the parents work receives between $1,040-1,300 a month. Even an additional $300 is a relative goldmine.

"Most of the teachers receive cash handed to them each month, without contracts or wage agreements," Dr. Lopo said. "Usually the amount is set in dollars, and the rate in shekels is not set according to the bank but rather by the rabbis. They determine the rate of the dollar, they determine what is studied, and they determine what our society will look like."

When presented with the findings, the Education Ministry was evasive. "The ministry has no knowledge regarding the identity of these teachers," said a formal statement on the uncertified teachers located by the paper. It should be mentioned that the demand for certification was stipulated by the ministry three years ago, and includes all teachers, haredi and secular.

Regarding the claim that the ministry had not verified the certification of 85% of haredi teachers despite having records on them in its possession, the ministry stated that "the additional supervision demanded by the ministry will lead to maintenance in this field".

Yana Pevzner and Guy Lieberman contributed to this report.

Exposé: The Haredi School Scam.

Comments

[David]

Harold? Comments please!

[Jeff]

Oh, he'll just say the survey was biased.

Anyway, a lot of good it does secular Israelis to be educated. They won't need to know any of those things in Gehinnom!

[bubiii]

this is what all that torah learning does stumps the mind from the real world in short it forces us into a fantasy world and detaches us from the real world i dont mean we shoudlnt learn any torah but too much of anything is not good too much food too much fixating on the torah too much exercise everything should be done in moderation even torah learning

[harold]

Certification required, but not enforced

There you have it in a nutshell. The Israeli govt should be ashamed of themselves. They pay, they declare that the teachers should be certified and they don't enforce it. Need I say more?

Give the schools at most one year to remediate the problem and after that, do not pay any teacher that is not certified. This appears to be a no-brainer.

[Garnel Ironheart]

Harold, the problem is that any attempt to enforce either teacher certification or teaching of the state curriculum will result in widespread riots (the Chareidi substitute for gym class) and a coalition crisis.

[Jeff]

the Chareidi substitute for gym class

Heh!

[Hadasah]

I was expecting a post like this. I do not find it surprising at all. I am happy though that this was posted on my birthday. :D

[Teddy]

Well, taking into consideration that Israel is (just like Turkey) a member of a myriad of European organizations, it is rather defensible that if one of those Haredim would have been looking at Israel with a world view colored by politicology, economy, diplomacy or something like that positioning Israel in Europe is quite defensible, everybody used to do .

[Yoel Mechanic]

If it really is true that the government fails in their civic duties because of riots (lame riots at that) and coalition crises then there indeed is a problem, in a state that have not even a constitution, and sectors in the public neither educated nor interested in democratic rule. btw: the Manhigut Yehudit faction lead by Moshe Feiglin can and will make a democratic government ( w/constitution) and appreciates the need for seeing Judaism as a culture.

[harold]

Harold, the problem is that any attempt to enforce either teacher certification or teaching of the state curriculum will result in widespread riots (the Chareidi substitute for gym class) and a coalition crisis

No other way my friend, no other way.

Yes there will be protests if they demand replacing all teachers with certified ones in a week or force a curriculum overhaul overnight. Do it menchlich, give them time to find replacements. Maybe bring in students from an education program in a university - while not certified, they will be motivated and are better than what is currently there. Maybe create some fast track teaching/certification program for the current teachers.

Do what ever is takes, if you want to solve the problem.

If all you want to do is bemoan the problem and make jokes, then fine. Let the status quo remain.

[Reader]

Since when 1-3 graders are supposed to know square roots, boiling points of substances, continents, and French history?
Granted, the teachers are not 3rd graders but this is hardly a 3rd grade level test.

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

Being in the Haredi camp myself and having sent my children to American Haredi schools, I do hope the Israeli government will crack down on the fraud being perpetuated by the Israeli Charedi educational system. It's more than about time. Will there be riots? I'm afraid so. But Charedi-haters, rejoice! Every riot will bury the Charedim ever deeper in their own graves! At some point, the Charedim will irritate such a large portion of the non-Charedi population that they will unite against them.

[rabbidw]

It is more than time to reclaim the State from the Chareidi Mafia. NO GOVT FUNDING FOR CHAREIDI EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS. If they riot, put them in jail.
If parents are receiving govt. funding their children will have to take, and pass, semiannual exams. If the children do not pass the exams the parents will have the choice of sending the children to real schools or losing their own welfare checks.
The cycle of perpetual welfare and unemployment must be broken now. Any Chareidi family that protests should be offered one last alternative, a one way ticket to the country of their choice. Maybe Saudi Arabia wants them, maybe Iran.
Never, in the history of the Jewish people, did we produce generations of children that could not function in the world. It must stop now.

[harold]

Do what ever is takes, if you want to solve the problem

Upon further reflection, maybe they should institute statewide exams. If someone fails it’s off to summer school. If you fail that you repeat the grade. I can go on. These are old tried and true methods. Not everything will result in riots. There are lots of room for creativity here. The most important thing is to decide that you want to help.

[seymour]

this happens in the USA to.

In 12th grade I had only 3 lessons a week of 45 minutes. I thought is was normal little did I know.

however, they reported that we took many more courses than we really took like gym and other stuff. I found that out when I requested my transcript for collage.

So unless they the government really cracks down with spot inspection they will just lie and say they do teach the stuff

funny it was hammered into me how one must not lie and then to find out my whole school education was a lie

[harold]

If parents are receiving govt. funding their children will have to take, and pass, semiannual exams. If the children do not pass the exams the parents will have the choice of sending the children to real schools or losing their own welfare checks

Absolutely absurd. Leave the poor parent out of this. If there is a woman with 10 children and her fifth grade daughter is failing in school you will take away food and rent money from the mother unless she yanks her child from a school that she has gone to since first grade? Please! The problem is with the schools and that is where the solution must come from.

[Jason]

Oh, and don't forget that standardized testing is susceptible to massive cheating. In the NY State Regents Exam scandals of my youth, it was the students at the Brooklyn yeshivas who had stolen the exams/answers and disseminated them. Does anyone here doubt the Charedi yeshivot in Israel would do the same?

[Yeshiva teacher]

Do you think it's any different in the New Square Yeshivas here?

[harold]

Oh, and don't forget that standardized testing is susceptible to massive cheating. In the NY State Regents Exam scandals of my youth, it was the students at the Brooklyn yeshivas who had stolen the exams/answers and disseminated them. Does anyone here doubt the Charedi yeshivot in Israel would do the same?

Do not give the test in the school but at other locations. One can have the tests on line and the exam can be set up to have the computer randomly renumber the presented questions so two people can even sit next to one another and it will not help them.

Like I said, if there is a will there is a way. Just make the decision that change is in order.

I know that it is fun to project haredim in the worst light. Have your fun.

[rabbidw]

Sorry Harold, I would have the Parents arrested for contributing to the truancy of their children. I really do not care if the women makes a living giving phone sex or real sex. I doubt very much if she is capable of earning a living in any other fashion, and I will not continue to pay her to allow her children to continue in a state of ignorance.
You take the governments money, you live by the governments rules. You don't like the government rules, fine, the government will stop giving you money.
You, of course, are welcome to set up a special charity for these people who wnat to continue to live in ignorance. Perhaps the charity can be named for Rubashkin.
"Give to the Rubashkin fund. Support the next generation of ignoramuses."
It might work. Put Rubashkin's name on any charity and it will raise fortunes.

[chaim]

chaim says
youre all missing the point.
The government needs the religious parties, they know they will withdraw from the coalition if anything like what is being suggested is forced upon them.
So they make laws about the curiculum and dont enforce them and everyone is happy.

[Шнеерсон was мошенничество]

Kids have the RIGHT to a decent education and not this haredi crap.

Harriet still defends this system and is thus evil. By this I'm saying "harold" seems like a an angry tranny who likes "rules" so we shall call him Harriet from now on.

[harold]

Sorry Harold, I would have the Parents arrested for contributing to the truancy of their children

Amazing! Simply amazing! Arrest a parent because their child failed an exam. WOW!

[Bartley Kulp]

In light of the fact that there are not enough teachers in this country to fill in the vacuum, give them grandfather the excising teachers while giving them three years to get certified. Give the teachers student loans if they need them. If whatever Hareidi authorities refuse this agreement defunding must be immediate.

[Shmarya]

Amazing! Simply amazing! Arrest a parent because their child failed an exam. WOW!

No.

Arrest a parent because they knowingly sent their child to a 'school' that illegally does not teach the basic subjects mandated by law.

[A. Nuran]

So let's see...

The teachers at these schools are frauds. They are taking money under the false pretense of teaching subjects. They do not and demonstrably cannot do so. They aren't illiterate by any objective standard.

Harold can't refute the fact so he blames the government for not being tougher on the criminals. Every time the government even makes a vague noise about holding the Charedi community to the same legal standards as the rest of Israel he is first to leap to the defense of the Charedi and their position above the law.

What does it boil down to?

It's your fault for not making us do it.
You can't make us do it.

[harold]

No.

Arrest a parent because they knowingly sent their child to a 'school' that illegally does not teach the basic subjects mandated by law.

Oh, I see! Arrest ALL the parents of ALL the children in the school.

Even more amazing and even more brillient!

[Bartley Kulp]

Actually Israel is supposed to be a country of law and order. For the tax payer the buck should stop with the government. There needs to be an inquiry as to why these boss Tweed arrangements are tolerated.

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

Golda Meir once said:

The solution will come when the Likud, Kadima, Israel Beitenu and Labor will hate the haredim more than they hate each other

[reb chaim]

Who was it who said: "Ignorance is bliss"?

Is that from the rabbonim or from the kisvei hakodesh?

[David]

If there is a woman with 10 children and her fifth grade daughter is failing in school you will take away food and rent money from the mother unless she yanks her child from a school that she has gone to since first grade?

Correct. The girl must be given an appropriate education whether the paretns like it or not. And also, "if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em". Nowhere in the Torah does it say you are meant to have 10 or 15 children whom you can't possibly love or care for.

[Garnel Ironheart]

Here's another thought: give this test to the average grade 10 or 11 student in Israel and see how many pass it. Although the percentage will be higher than in this sample I bet it won't be much.

[harold]

whom you can't possibly love or care for.

Maybe they can? My mother came from a family of 9. Even though my grandfather passed away at an early age, my grandmother, even though she struggled, brought up her family with love. It is unfortunate that Hitler killed half her family.

Just because your capability for loving is limited does not give you the right to speak of others.

[rabbidw]

Amazing! Simply amazing! Arrest a parent because their child failed an exam. WOW!
Harold if a Parent continually refuses to send the child to school in NY, the State can take over custody of the child. The State acts in the best interest of the child. The best interest of the child is getting an education.
I think the Rambam said, in a different context, KOFIM OSO AD SEYOMAR ROTZEH ANI.
We know the parent wants to do the right thing for his child, but he is being compelled to do otherwise by the cray society they live in and by the crazy leaders that they follow. We therefore compel them by whatever means we can to do the right thing for their children.
And if the chareidim pu;ll out over this issue, the coalition will get many more votes from people that have learned to hate the chareidim and all that t5hey stand for.

[I rather not say]

I am a convert

Went to 9 years of Catholic school education.

Most of the time, one teacher taught the one grade and all the subjects.

When they closed the door they ruled with an IRON hand

Taught the 4 R's
Reading, Writing, Arithmetic and Religion. [as well as other subjects]

Even the S L O W learner was FORCED to learn

College was one of the stated goals

[harold]

Harold if a Parent continually refuses to send the child to school in NY, the State can take over custody of the child

Whoa, hold your horses. We are not talking about a case where a child is at home not attending any school. Let’s compare apples to apples here. If someone is sending their child here in New York to a school that is not up to your standard, or is a poor performing school by national standards the state will NOT take over custody of the child. As Mr. Rosenberg would say, Please!

[Streimel Shmuley]

Nebech, we are in Gallut! G-d will provide in Torah ten times what time the kinder waste in english classes so why waste time in them?

We need Moshiach now!!

[R]

Actually as Israel participate in the EuroVision song contest and also in UEFA, they are almost part of Europe.
As for the other questions...is 3rd grade Year 4? (as in 8-9 years old).
They should go on that show "are you smarter than a 10 year old" granted they get kids on that show who are on their way to Harrow or Eaton, but it's still amusing.

[Dr. Dave]

If the teachers are barely at a third grade level then where does that leave the students?

[Shlomo]

What is really frightening is the chareidi response see VIN such as I am proud of this teaches, thats all he needs to know why did he let himself be interviewed etc
The best comment here was Harold at 10:05 the government should do whats best regardless of the consequences to their coalition

[Streimel Shmuley]

Everything that Yidden need to no is in the Talmud and if it is not there then we don't need to no it. Leave that to the goyim.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

Everything that Yidden need to no is in the Talmud and if it is not there then we don't need to no it. Leave that to the goyim.

of coarse (:->) shmuley!
sheneymor, hofokh bo, vehofokh bo, dekhuley bo!
who needs anything else?

[Menachem Mendel lll]

But...when it comes to fornicating and banging the Shabos way they are at the top of the class and perfer to be on top as well.

Moschiach baby....

[harold]

Everything that Yidden need to no is in the Talmud and if it is not there then we don't need to no it. Leave that to the goyim

Its "know" not "no". Anyway I still feel that it is better to be on the giving end of Tzedakah then to be on the receiving end.

One day the goose that laid the golden egg will stop giving and there will be a period of great hardship. It is better to begin the process now while there are people that will be willing to work with you. Seize the opportunity while you can.

[Yoel Mechanic]

There's a Chasidic witticism: What's the difference between a house-holder and a cat? They seem the same, both want to catch mice. The answer is that, yes, both want to catch mice, but the difference is the house-holder wishes the mice weren't there. The cat is catching mice but is actually glad the mice are still there and hopes they will continue to be there. So too on this blog, some people are like house-holders and some are like cats. Some rag on the Charedim (but wish it wasn't that way, and hope some day it will change) and other rag on the Charedim (they actually like it this way, and are doing it because they actually enjoy ragging on Charedim). Please decide which group you are in.

[rabbidw]

Everything that Yidden need to no is in the Talmud and if it is not there then we don't need to no it. Leave that to the goyim
I guess spelling is not in the Talmud. It says in the Talmud that a man who does not teach his son how to make a living has taught his son to steal. I guess your father taught you well, as did all the chareidi parents who continue to steal money from the taxpayers.

[rabbidw]

Harold, if parents send their child to an unlicensed school, it is as if they kept him home. If they home school the child, the child must meet certain standards, or they can force him to go to school. Even the Amish were forced to give their children an elementary school education, and the Amish support themselves. They do not accept help from the government.

[A. Nuran]

I can't figure whether Streimel Shmuley is for real or just a case of Poe's Law

[chaim]

chaim says
another point forgotten continuously on this blog is that most of the parents rely on the state aid and the 'chaluka'. they would lose the 'chaluka' money if they sent the child elsewhere.

[harold]

Harold, if parents send their child to an unlicensed school

these are not unlicensed. The govt is giving them money!

[Jeff]

Some rag on the Charedim (but wish it wasn't that way, and hope some day it will change) and other rag on the Charedim (they actually like it this way, and are doing it because they actually enjoy ragging on Charedim).

I'm like the householder; I wish they weren't there. Frankly, I wish we had a concept of the Rapture, as the gentiles have; I wish Moshiach would come, and take all of the True Believers to heaven. Then the rest of us could get on with the business of trying to move civilization forward.

[Streimel Shmuley]

Plenty of goyim full of nowledge are walking the streets without a job. So what if Mendy cant do sqooare roots or Chava doesnt no the man from monkey nareshkeit of the goyim! Study Torah and Moshiach will come! When Moshiach comes everyone will be happy and get to study Torah all day long every day! The goyim can do there sqooare roots and grow our food. They will be happy.

[rabbidw]

Hey, Streimel Shmuely, don't you know that the Rambam says that the only difference the coming of the Mashiach will make is the elimination of the oppression of the goyim. Outside of that, we will still have to farm, produce, work. In other words, you will be just as qualified to starve for lack of any ability to earn a living.

[Mr. Apikoros]

There's a Chasidic witticism: What's the difference between a house-holder and a cat?

Meow. Does that answer your question?

[Jeff]

Study Torah and Moshiach will come! When Moshiach comes everyone will be happy and get to study Torah all day long every day!

So, if studying Toyreh all day brings Moshiach, and after he arrives, we'll get to study all day (oh, joy) - what you're saying is that his/her coming won't make any difference at all.

[A E ANDERSON]

The Yediot article suggests that the haredi children perform well on questions about religious subjects. I question that assertion on the grounds that, aside from their fixation on sex-related matters and certain profitable humras, the typical haredi is an am haaretz with at best a mediocre command of the texts they purport to revere.

Try this with a haredi anytime: have them close their sefer, look you straight in the eye, and ask them summarise the book (or even the daf) he's "learning" in two or three simple sentences using their own words and not quoting the text. The vast majority, while able to mouth quotes in sing-song, will be unable to make the abstractions necessary to formulate a coherent summary.

[zev]

and the funniest part about this is that they come to collect our money from america and not once do you hear them say how wrong it is to become educated and make money instead of staying illiterate and learning the whole day

[David]

This is so sad. In Halachic Judaism the pursuit of knowledge is encouraged. In the Charedi cult, which clearly rejects Halachic requirements such as honesty and work, ignorance is clearly the preferred status. I guess their uselessness makes them even more unemployable and thus eligible for welfare benefits (and therefore more efficient parasites).

I wonder what would happen if the Charedim were ever given their own country? How long would it take them to work out that no society is viable if it is comprised entirely of uneducated and ignorant parasites?

And would they then prefer to work or starve...?

[David]

and the funniest part about this is that they come to collect our money from america and not once do you hear them say how wrong it is to become educated and make money instead of staying illiterate and learning the whole day

Posted by: zev | July 28, 2010 at 09:24 AM

You mean "learning" not learning. They "learn" nothing useful but to become more efficient parasites. I am offended by their hijacking of this word as if to imply they were becoming educated or learned in the normally accepted sense. If they were so "learned" how is it they are not able to fulfil the most basic halachic requirement of being honest or being able to teach one's children to earn an honest living?

[David]

The vast majority, while able to mouth quotes in sing-song, will be unable to make the abstractions necessary to formulate a coherent summary.

Rote "learning" is all they have. They have no analytical skills whatever. In most religions and cultures rote learning became obsolete with the invention of the printing press (and in Halachic Judaism, much earlier than that, as Halachic Judaism has always been opposed to ignorance).

[Yos]

Book learnin' is the devil's work. Scripture's all ye need fer salvation. *toothless hillbilly grin*

[BeenThereDoneThat]

"We Don't need no education, We don't need no thought control"...Harav Pinchus Floyd.