Rubashkin’s Jail Sentence Denounced by Angry Haredim

A wave of outrage rippled through New York’s haredi community, crossing the usual ultra-Orthodox divisions, in response to the announcement that Agriprocessors executive Sholom Rubashkin would be sent to a federal jail for 27 years for bank fraud, with no possibility of parole. Some Accuse Judge of Anti-Semitism, ‘Just Like Dreyfus!’

Rubashkin’s Jail Sentence Denounced by Angry Haredim

Some Accuse Judge of Anti-Semitism, ‘Just Like Dreyfus!’

By Gal Beckerman • The Forward

A wave of outrage rippled through New York’s Haredi community, crossing the usual ultra-Orthodox divisions, in response to the June 21 announcement that Agriprocessors executive Sholom Rubashkin would be sent to a federal jail for 27 years for bank fraud, with no possibility of parole.

The heated emotions were in evidence on the night of the announcement, as several thousand people from a variety of Hasidic and other ultra-Orthodox groups crammed the streets of Brooklyn’s Boro Park neighborhood. Crowds gathered around movie screens set up outside Bais Yaakov, a large hall on 15th Avenue, where a pro-Rubashkin rally and fundraiser was taking place. Inside, a sea of tightly packed black hats massed beneath a dais where the white-bearded luminaries of the Haredi world sat, many holding their worried faces in their hands.

“Today a dagger was thrust into our hearts!” yelled Pinchos Lipschutz, who is the editor and publisher of the Orthodox Yiddish newspaper Yated Ne’eman and is one of the few who spoke to the gathered thousands in English and not Yiddish.

News of the 51-year-old meatpacking executive’s sentence hit when Linda Reade, the presiding federal district court judge in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, unexpectedly released a memorandum explaining her decision a day before the official sentencing. Rubashkin, who managed the now-defunct slaughterhouse and meatpacking plant in Postville, Iowa, owned by his family’s huge kosher meat enterprise, was found guilty last November of 86 counts of financial fraud. He had misrepresented his company’s financial state in order to maintain its line of credit from two banks and keep the business afloat.

Even some of Rubashkin’s harshest critics in the Jewish community expressed surprise at the severity of the sentence. By comparison, junk bond king Michael Milken, who pleaded guilty to six securities and reporting violations in 1989, ended up serving two years in prison, though he also had to pay a $1.1 billion fine. And Dennis Kozlowski, former CEO of Tyco International, was sentenced in 2005 to anywhere from eight years and four months to 25 years in jail for receiving $81 million in unauthorized bonuses. His first parole hearing comes up in 2012.

The loss to the financial institutions that Rubashkin defrauded was estimated at $26 million. In addition to his prison sentence, Rubashkin will have to pay the banks this amount in restitution.

Those who defend Rubashkin have long contended that the federal government has handled the case unfairly. Months earlier, the government dropped charges that Rubashkin was responsible for the company’s hiring of illegal immigrants. And in a separate trial in June, Rubashkin was acquitted of charges that he violated child labor laws (though the company itself pleaded guilty at the outset of the trial, to multiple charges of abuse of underage laborers).

That left the bank fraud charges the government ultimately pressed against Rubashkin.

The prosecution recommended that he receive 25 years. Reade added an additional two years because, she wrote, Rubashkin had perjured himself in court, offering statements that he knew were “inaccurate and untruthful.”

Reade also rejected Rubashkin’s attempts to reduce his jail time by pointing to the role he played in providing affordable kosher meat to his community and by noting his charitable endeavors.

“It is entirely possible that a number of Defendant’s charitable deeds were funded with proceeds from his crimes,” the judge wrote in her sentencing memo. “It is far easier to be generous with someone else’s money instead of one’s own.”

Nevertheless, it was Rubashkin’s selfless character that was the crux of the matter for those at the pro-Rubashkin rally protesting Reade’s sentence. The night began with a video slideshow presenting Rubashkin as a family man who consistently acted for the good of his community. Images of his 10 children alternated with photos of Rubashkin wearing a hairnet and examining meat at the plant. Mournful cantorial music played in the background. The speeches that followed were equally dramatic, with most culminating in tears. One rabbi, Avrohom Schorr from Tiferes Yaakov in the Flatbush section of Brooklyn, repeated continually in Yiddish the number of years that Rubashkin would serve — zibn un tsvantsik yor — crying the whole time.

The other purpose of the evening was to fundraise for what the organizers said were Rubashkin’s hefty legal bills, which totaled $2 million, according to one speaker. Dozens of booths were set up to take contributions, and large posters suggested donations, all in multiples of 27, up to $2,700. Money will also be needed for the appeal that Rubashkin’s lawyers plan to file.

Besides pointing to his character, the speakers described the sentence as anti-Semitic. Lipschutz expressed this sentiment, as well: “Once again, a Jew has been scapegoated, a libel has been created and given credence by a court.”

Outside, the floodlit streets were crowded with Hasidim milling around on the warm summer evening. Many people said they didn’t think Rubashkin was totally innocent, but they did think he was being unfairly punished. Others thought the whole case was fabricated as a way of attacking the ritual of kosher slaughter.

“This is just like Dreyfus! J’accuse!” said Mordy Getz, 28, a tall man who wore a large red beard and stood underneath one of the big screens that was broadcasting the rally. “They won’t kill him, but they’ll just lock him up for decades and destroy a whole family.”

In Postville, Aaron Goldsmith, a Chabad rabbi who is close to the Rubashkins, said he thought the heavy sentence would finally expose what he called “an agenda-driven prosecution.”

“She finally revealed her cards,” Goldsmith said, referring to Reade. “She has a different sense of justice. I don’t think she is an anti-Semite, I just think she’s a bad judge. And she’s now trying to vindicate her earlier bad judgments by imposing such a harsh sentence.”

Several Rubashkin critics who had focused on the immigration charges and allegations of illegal child labor had complicated feelings about the trial’s outcome — a heavy sentence for committing bank fraud and not punishment for the alleged abuse of workers.

“Of course I would have wanted him to be convicted on the immigration and child labor charges,” said Jane Ramsey, executive director of the Chicago-based Jewish Council on Urban Affairs. “But I am not sad about this conviction, since the light wouldn’t have shined on those frauds if the light wasn’t already shining on him for those other issues.”

Shmarya Rosenberg, who runs the website Failed Messiah, has kept up a constant stream of criticism of the Rubashkin family over the past few years. He was quick to tick off what he saw as Rubashkin’s crimes, and thought that Rubashkin himself bore significant blame for his steep sentence through his courtroom behavior. But Rosenberg also found himself in the strange position of having sympathy for a man who has been a popular villain on his website.

“Twenty-seven years is way too much,” Rosenberg said. “Especially in a system where there are no conjugal visits and you really don’t get to see your kids very much except for brief visits in a room with a lot of other people around. It’s just that the system is structured in such a way that it takes people who don’t fit the normal profile and it hurts them more than is necessary.”

Rosenberg put the blame for the long sentence on the federal guidelines, which he thought needed to be reformed.

Rather than feeling vindicated, the sentencing left him feeling uneasy.

“I had an initial feeling that finally he’s being punished for what he’s done,” Rosenberg said. “But that was followed immediately by me saying, why the hell is he getting 27 years?”

Comments

[harold]

A wave of outrage rippled through New York’s haredi community, crossing the usual ultra-Orthodox divisions

Not surprising. A really bad decision, a heartless one - one that was handed down by a very angry hateful person. Simply put - there was no justice here. Not a good sign for the orthodox community to embrace the US justice system as one that is fair and just. A system that is to be shunned unless there is no other recourse.

[A. Nuran]

Not surprising. Whenever the Charedim don't get exactly what they want they pout and scream and stamp their little feet. Good thing the American authorities don't put up with the sort of nonsense the Israeli ones do.

[Shmarya]

A really bad decision, a heartless one - one that was handed down by a very angry hateful person. Simply put - there was no justice here. Not a good sign for the orthodox community to embrace the US justice system as one that is fair and just. A system that is to be shunned unless there is no other recourse.

Please.

First condemn Rubashkin for committing so many crimes, for showing no remorse, and for refusing to pay restitution – including refusing to pay less than $4,000 he owes to a cattle dealer.

After you do that strongly and clearly, feel free to campaign for a change in the federal sentencing guidelines.

Until then, troll elsewhere.

[Denise]

Harold said: Not a good sign for the orthodox community to embrace the US justice system as one that is fair and just. A system that is to be shunned unless there is no other recourse.

Recourse? That would be called...move to Israel. Otherwise, in America people follow the laws of the land. If they fail to do so, they are dealt with in the justice system.

[Isa]

Take a Guess...

Guess three different places where Rubashkin's picture might possible be found and placed in a 'honored' position.

#1 is easy-Any Chabad place

#2 His lawyer's office for the wealth (and continued wealth ha ha) that the office receives.Big Christmas party this year!

#3 A trophy room- another 'head' on the wall
ha ha

[douv]

most killers and rapists dont get this much time and many high ranking men of power agree so how could you disagree, be real

[Dr Moe]

A wave of outrage rippled through New York’s haredi community, crossing the usual ultra-Orthodox divisions,

They forgot to add 6 former US Attorney Generals.

(though the company itself pleaded guilty at the outset of the trial, to multiple charges of abuse of underage laborers).

LIES

[douv]

many high ranking men who arent jewish

[Shmarya]

"(though the company itself pleaded guilty at the outset of the trial, to multiple charges of abuse of underage laborers)."

LIES

Agriprocessors pleaded GUILTY just before Rubashkin's trial to multiple counts of KNOWINGLY employing child laborers.

[Shmarya]

most killers and rapists dont get this much time

That's because most killers and rapists are tried by states, not by the federal government, because their crimes are state crimes.

Some states have very lenient sentences for rape and murder, some – like Texas, for example – have very strict sentences, including death.

[justice seeker]

Dear Moe: Why don't you get your Rubashkin clan together and get them started on the issue of restitution. You and your black hat buddies out to be able to raise a few shekels to pay SMR's debt! If he made an extrodinary effort at restitution maybe he could finagle a pardon, or maybe the Rebbe will appear and solve the problem. Or maybe the Rebbe will appear and say the problem is solved and SMR is where he belongs. Do you know anyone who can channel him?

[hashem yerachem]

reade is no dummy although she may be the wicked witch of the west

1. she released the sentencing memo on monday b/c she did not want an uproar as she read it out in the court. at the formal setencing hearing he knew what was coming everyone did. everyone was still in sock to kick up a fuss. she did not want any drama

2. she gave a crazy sentence knowing that it wil go to appeal. she wanted to wash her hands. give a sentence let him start sitting and then let a higher court deal with the reduction. she knows her deicsion has no hope of being upheld but did not want to look soft. she made the headlines people are scared of her and now made a deterent etc etc it had the impact she wanted

3. he needs to sit so let him start sitting at least in a place where he can have food etc and then hell get his presidential pardon or a reduction with an appeal.

[Rubashkin supporter]

B"H

Thank G-d Hashem runs the show and not any of the posters here.

In time things will definitely turn out good for SMR.

Meanwhile hope to make more $ soon so I can send to the legal defense fund.

[Dr Moe]

Dear Moe: Why don't you get your Rubashkin clan together and get them started on the issue of restitution. You and your black hat buddies out to be able to raise a few shekels to pay SMR's debt! If he made an extrodinary effort at restitution maybe he could finagle a pardon, or maybe the Rebbe will appear and solve the problem. Or maybe the Rebbe will appear and say the problem is solved and SMR is where he belongs. Do you know anyone who can channel him?

1. Rubashkin is NOT my buddy nor am I Haredi, I actually agree with 6 former US attorney Generals and other high and low elected officials in the Goverment and the Judicial system.

2. Had there not been a raid thats was signed off by Linda Reade, everything could have worked out fine, the bank would had gotten their money back plus make a big PROFIT off the loan, so now that the Feds raided the plant they are the ones who stopped the flow of money to be paid back to the Bank plus they are the ones who made the bank lose on their profit, cause they shut down the Business, even Rubashkin and his attorneys confronted the many division of the FEDS to work a deal and solve all the complaints but the feds decided to go on the Raid route and not peaceful route to solve their issues, it is their problem not Rubashkin.

3. Who says all Judges are innocent good people? there are Judges who make mistakes and even commit crimes and this sentience would fit in a North Korean court not in the courts of United States of America.

[Barry]

A system that is to be shunned unless there is no other recourse.

Harold, you have made a good point. I suggest that the Hareidim take it upon themselves not to bring any civil action whether to recover business debts, rent arrears or challenges against zoning decisions particularly against gentiles since that Rashante Linda Reade and her cronies are gentiles. That will show them!

[harold]

Recourse? That would be called...move to Israel

Making Aliya is an excellent choice. What I was referring to was to first go to your Rabbi and see if the dispute or problem can be solved or mediated, if not then, if possible, try to make use of a Beis Din. If it is not appropriate then obviously you have no choice. The key point is that the US legal system should be a last recourse as a venue to get justice.

[Reader]

He might have to give his wife a get.
27 years, no conjugal visits, kids' shiduchim, etc.

It will be terrible for him when the reality sinks in. In a way, I hope it never does.
A very sad case.

[A. Nuran]

Rubashkin supporter writes:
Thank G-d Hashem runs the show and not any of the posters here.

In time things will definitely turn out good for SMR.

Meanwhile hope to make more $ soon so I can send to the legal defense fund.

Suppose he doesn't. Will you have the honesty to say "My faith is wrong"? Or will you immediately come up with some bullshit reason why you were right after all. His toes were crossed, or the mezzuzahs weren't straight or some other excuse.

[critical_minyan]

The judge was not inclined to show mercy because she was interested in deterring future Rubashkin's, to educate the rest of the ultra-orthodox kehila. Rubashkin's crime was not financial, the money stolen was minimal in comparison to crimes such as Kozlowski, who lived far more obscenely luxurious lives. What galled her, was that fact that Rubashkin mixed his sacred and business interests so completely, all with the tacit assistance of his Chabad community. If he stolen the money from the bank and spent it on fancy cars and prostitutes, he would have gotten less time because he would have been shamed in court. Instead, he involved his community institutions, abusing the legal structures that society built to separate church and state, that we depend on to keep society cohesive, unbalkanized.
His defense that he was a family man, that he was charitable, worked against him in this case, because the end result was a net negative for society. He was stealing for his cult, to keep his cult separated, for the praise of his colleagues within the cult. H

[Barry]

I still don't get it Harold. Lets say for example that a Hareidi landlord owns a block of apartments with a majority of non Jewish tenants. It becomes known that this landlord refuses to use civil courts to recover rent arrears so as to show his contempt to that machsheffa Reade. The non-Jewish tenants take advantage of his principled stand and withhold paying rent. These non-Jewish tenants will laugh in his face should he send them a Beis Din hazmona and will tell him that they will turn up at beis din the day a black female dayan is appointed.
Surely in such circumstances rather then issue civil proceedings and thereby recognize US law the landlord should take his minority Jewish tenants to the beis din to force them to partly contribute to the losses he is suffering for his principled stand by doubling the rent they pay him. Alternatively the Hareidi landlord can always sell his interest to a non-Jew. Admittedly should all Hareidi landlord's put their property interests on sale it will create a buyers market however we must surely be prepared to suffer substantial financial loss by passing some of our wealth to non Jewish Americans to show our disdain for their system of justice.

[Jock S.......r]

"Meanwhile hope to make more $ soon so I can send to the legal defense fund."
Dear Rubashkin supporter,
You are just pouring sand down a rat-hole. They had him dead to rights. He should simply have admitted his crimes, pleaded guilty and asked for mercy. Instead he tried to bullshit the court with high-priced lawyers (for which you are paying) - and Linda and the jurors were not stupid enough to buy it.

[Abracadabra]

Harold -

What about the Chassidishe Rebbes who fight it out in secular courts? Examples include the current Bobover Rebbes (both of them), the current Satmar Rebbes (both of them), and past rebbes.

And then there are the holy Yeshivos whose rabbis fight internally for assets and leadership in the civil courts.

Somehow, when push comes to shove, the higher-uppers can't seem to adhere to the rulings of beis din. Or some don't even bother going to beis din at all. So then why, I ask you, should they tell the rest of us to?

"Unless there is no other recourse" usually means "Unless you don't think you'll get the result you want" or "Unless you don't have enough money to pay off the beis din."

Anyway, based on your comments, I doubt you ever tried taking a dispute to a beis din to resolve anything.

Either way, the reality is that battei din are not in any legal position to enforce their rulings, and don't work except to promote extortion and distrust amoungst those who are naive enough to use them.

If anything, they cause more problems than they resolve.

[harold]

I still don't get it Harold

I did use the term "where appropriate". Obviously if the dispute involves gentiles then going to a Rabbi or a Beis Din would not be appropriate.

[yidandahalf]

This is great. I can retire Sham Wow and call him Dreyfus Rubash-in. I like it.

[yidandahalf]

The Rubbishclan supporters are moving from their initial stage of anger and now are in denial. What comes after? I think it's a profound depression moving into final acceptance. Let us keep track of haredi post traumatic stages; good research material for a thesis.

[state of disgust]

Harold:
Please do not promote more haredim moving to Israel. They have enough ortho's on the dole and can't support more. Send them instead to Uruguay or Argentina or Venezuela or even ... Poland (I understand the Poles are enamoured of Hasids these days).

[itchiemayer]

To Harold and others: What sentence could the Judge have given about which you would not have complained. 5 years? 10? 12? 2? time already served? That he should have been found not guilty on all charges? What would you have considered justice being properly served. Personally, anywhere in the 10 - 15 year category I would consider perfectly appropriate. Hell, you guys would be calling a 15 year sentence a "life" sentence. I guess what I am asking is where do you draw the line in the sand. My hunch is at anything more than time already served.

[Barry]

I am still confused, Harold

If by going to the Beis Din you get better justice then by using the secular courts, then why do the Ultraorthodox impose communal sanctions on those who do not do so.

For example lets say I need to travel 30 miles. I have a choice of either using an automobile or horse and cart. I would of course choose the automobile as it is better. However if the driver of the horse and cart threatened to break my jaw should I not hire him, then under that pressure, I might be 'presuaded' to use his services notwithstanding that they are far inferior to something more modern.

So it seems that the fact that the ultraorthodox use heavy pressure to 'persuade' Jews to use their legal services strongly suggests that secular justice is better than religious justice as otherwise why threaten those who might use 'the competition'?

[WoolSilkCotton]

Our friend Harold and the others in the Rubashkin Amen Chorus simply cannot accept the following:

1. SMR committed serious crimes.
2. SMR has never cooperated with the authorities.
3. SMR continues to deny any criminal wrongdoing.
4. When you are convicted of serious crimes, and you don't cooperate, and you deny you did anything wrong, you can expect the judge to throw the book at you.
5. The judge threw the book at him.

Nobody in America is given the option of embracing the US justice system. Everyone is required to obey the laws of the USA, whether they 'like' the system or not.
If you obey the law, you can minimize your need to interact with the justice system.

None of this is antisemitism.

[WoolSilkCotton]

1. Denial- 27 years? It can't be!

2. Anger- 27 years! The judge is evil!

3. Bargaining- maybe something can still be worked out. Maybe a pardon from Obama? More appeals, yeah, that's the ticket!

4. Depression- oy vey. SMR is screwed, and all our histrionics failed to accomplish anything.

5. Acceptance- that new kosher meat company makes good stuff! What's up with the latest money laundering scandal in New Square? Sholom Mordecai who?

[effie]

1. Judge Reade released the memo in advance because that is the better practise. I've only been in one court which did not tell the attorneys in advance the sentnce they intended to impose.

2. Judge Reade made a clear and detailed record to support the sentence she gave. Most sentences are reversed due to procedural errors, specifically that the court failed to make a clear and detailed record.

3. I see that the usual suspects are slamming her all over the internet and have altered her wiki page with a number of blatant falsehoods.

4. I would like to see an accounting of all the money they collected on behalf of Rubashkin. His defense should not have cost all the money they took in and are still taking in and this includes the appeal.

[effie]

Had there not been a raid thats was signed off by Linda Reade

WHEN IS DR. MOE AND OTHERS GOING TO STOP TELLING THIS LIE???

[effie]

Barry: If harold's mind explodes, you're cleaning it up.

[nachos]

Barry: If harold's mind explodes, you're cleaning it up.

Posted by: effie | June 24, 2010 at 08:00 AM
What mind?

[Isa]

""""most killers and rapists don't get this much time""""

Lying Assholes

Try do that in Texas

When you vote the 'needle' [for Christians] you get to hold your head high and sit in the front row at services

AND you suddenly become more popular too!

[Choni Davidowitz]

Wake up Orthdox Jewry in America (and all of Diaspora).
Anti- semitism is a light sleeper, and is awakening all over the Diaspora.
Time for mass Aliyah.
Chabad should stop their kiruv in the diaspora, and bring our people home.
There is much kiruv to do in Eretz Yisrael.

[Michelle]

B"H

If someone wants to help someone who is REALLY being discriminated against, help this poor kid in Georgia.

He hasn't been convicted of anything, just arrested, and has been put through continuing and escalating discrimination.

Now the Jail has him in a 12X12 secluded cell and denied him the right to see a rabbi (but they let a missionary wander around and pass out tracts!).

http://nokosherfoodindekalbcojail.wordpress.com/

[Yochanan Lavie]

Why don't the black hats give a fig about Gilad Shalit? (rhetorical question)

[state of disgust]

Choni:

Please stay the hell out of Israel. You've done enough damage to Jews in the US, we don't need you f**king up Israel any more then you already have.

[YAAKOV]

Imagine how many more years he would have received, if the judge could take into account the Chillul Hashem he caused. This was not just "ordinary" Chillul Hashem because he was a visibly orthodox Jew, but because the whole business was religiously based, i.e. kosher food , this just increases the amount of Chillul Hashem .

[BPHocker]

The black hats, Yochanan, don't give a fig about anyone but their own sweaty, gabardine clad, dandruff riddled, yellow tzitzis that used to be white, and god forbid you walk into a shteebel on day 3 of a three day yontiff where the stench is unbearable with no one showering even though they took 2 minutes to be mekayim Der Miktzve and stink like rotted whitefish, kind.

[justice seeker]

Dear Moe: Your Rubashkin logic is flawed. The fraud started 10 years before the raid. Exploiting the poor to pay off a bank loan is so obnoxious a conclusion that only a Rubashkin could come up with it. I'd have more repect for you if you could channel the Rebbe. How about it?

[danny]

BPHocker... that's a messed up comment. Why do you wallow in negative stereotypes? Does it really make you feel good?

[harold]

Anyway, based on your comments, I doubt you ever tried taking a dispute to a beis din to resolve anything

I am one of the vast majority who have not had a brush with the law - secular or religious.

Another problem with the secular system is the need to have an attorney to navigate the system. Outside of the use of attorneys for real estate, which fortunately were a fixed cost, the only other time I used an attorney was for elder care advice. I remember once calling the office to find out if they sent me a bill yet - they charged me $65 (10 minute consultation @395/hr) to tell me that it was not mailed yet. Lawyers - YECH!

That was years ago, today if I need advice I go to http://www.liveadvice.com/ where one can get professional advice from a real person for a few dollars an hour. They have user ratings as well a personal statement from the people supplying the service. I had a tax question (I do my own taxes) and got the answer I needed – cost me less than $10! It was quickie question that needed a quickie answer.

[harold]

for a few dollars an hour

make that for a few dollars a minute

[sage]

What's happened so far, may be just the beginning of the elimination of criminality within the Orthodox Jewish World.

If the rumor that the US Government is planning to bring well-earned RICO Charges against Chabad, watch out.

[sage]

Correction:

What's happened so far, may be just the beginning of the elimination of criminality within the Orthodox Jewish World.

If the rumor that the US Government is planning to bring well-earned RICO Charges against Chabad is true, watch out.

[sholom]

This case brings to light how the archaic Torah's punishment system is much more compassionate than the "humane" inhumane bestial system by the best of the secular system. Any public lashing is a million times more humane than locking up a person from his family for 27 years.

[Dr Moe]

Dear Moe: Your Rubashkin logic is flawed. The fraud started 10 years before the raid.

We already know that Rubashkin took the loan before the raid and was CONTINUALLY paying back the Bank including Interest until the day of the Raid, however the FEDS also admit that due to their own raid that was SIGNED by Linda Reade who also gave Rubashkin a North Korean and Pol Pot style of sentencing was part of this disastrous raid and due to the raid the payment to Bank could not be continued, if there was no raid the bank would had made a profit to this day.

Again Judges and High officials make mistakes and commit crimes also not every is honest.

Exploiting the poor to pay off a bank loan is so obnoxious

was never charged or convicted for such a crime.

I'd have more repect for you if you

PUHHPLEASE... I dont want respect from someone like you who likes Pol Pot style sentencing.

[reb chaim]

The basic problem with the charedim in our time is that they fail to consider the fact that they no longer live in Czarist Russia. There, the court system was definitely biased against Jews, i.e., we were deemed gulity until proven innocent. That government was not only corrupt, but also anti-semitic. Special taxes and other fees were imposed on the Jewish community. So it was a mitzvah to cheat this government and to defy its laws wherever and whenever possible. Well, we no longer live in Russia and say what you may about the United States, its system of justice is neither unfair or anti-semitic. Almost everyone agrees that Sholom Rubashkin is not an innocent man and certainly not a martyr. Comparisons with Dreyfus or even Mendel Beylis are not only unrealistic; they are also ludicrous.

[Dr Moe]

"WHEN IS DR. MOE AND OTHERS GOING TO STOP TELLING THIS LIE??"

It is not my fault Linda Reade signed off for the Raid, ask her why she signed.

[Shmarya]

the FEDS also admit that due to their own raid that was SIGNED by Linda Reade

Stop lying, Moe. The warrant for the raid was NOT signed by Judge Linda Reade.

And the bank fraud started in 1997 (or even earlier).

[Dr Moe]

its system of justice is neither unfair or anti-semitic.

Thats right give everyone in America who committed worse crimes and defrauded banks with way more billions then Rubashkin give them 2 years and Rubashkin give 27 years because he looks different, even though 6 former Attorney Generals think different then Linda Reade.

~LONG LIVE KIM ILL SUNG THE GREAT LEADER~
as per your logic

[Dr Moe]

Stop lying, Moe. The warrant for the raid was NOT signed by Judge Linda Reade.

It was signed by Reade

And the bank fraud started in 1997 (or even earlier).

And the Bank was always being paid plus Interest, till the Raid.

[A E ANDERSON]

Here we go again....

Do we mean the "bank fraud" started in 1997 because of SMR's technically false certification that Agriprocessors was not in violation of any law?

[Shmarya]

Do we mean the "bank fraud" started in 1997 because of SMR's technically false certification that Agriprocessors was not in violation of any law?

No.

We mean he started inflating his accounts receivable and playing around with invoices at least that far back.

[Shmarya]

It was signed by Reade

Nope. It was signed by Judge Scoles, the circuit's magistrate judge.

[Cheskel]

Harold,
Judge Linda Reade is far from having any antisemitic blood flowing in her.

When mentioning Rubashkins autistic son to be one of the reason for a reduced sentence, she had very kind words about the Jewish community. What a good mother Mrs Rubashkin is and how wonderful the Jewish people are in helping one another. So Sholem Mordechai shouldn't worry about his wife and kids they will be taken care of.

Isn't Linda Reade a compassionate judge?

[Mr. Apikoros]

One of those six attorneys-general who argued for a lighter sentence was Ramsey Clark, who is an implacable enemy of the State of Israel, and who never met a dictator he didn't like.

Come to think of it, doesn't that make him very much like most Haredim?

[effie]

"WHEN IS DR. MOE AND OTHERS GOING TO STOP TELLING THIS LIE??" It is not my fault Linda Reade signed off for the Raid, ask her why she signed. Posted by: Dr Moe

She didn't sign it. It is your fault for repeating this lie after you've been told you were wrong and it is easily verifiable that you are wrong.

Oh, well, it's not like you have any credibility to begin with...

[effie]

Mr. Apikoros: I always wonder who is paying him. I don't he does it for free. If you look at the briefs and motions he files, they are all boilerplate.

[nachos]

To Harold and others: What sentence could the Judge have given about which you would not have complained. 5 years? 10? 12? 2?
Posted by: itchiemayer | June 24, 2010 at 07:25 AM

How about Chai?

[effie]

B. Criminal Warrant

On May 9, 2008, the government applied for a search warrant pursuant to Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 41....After reviewing the government's evidence and finding probable cause, Judge Scoles issued the search warrant. The warrant granted federal agents permission to search the entire Plant. The warrant also permitted the agents to seize any of the approximately 700 undocumented aliens against whom the government had filed a criminal complaint.

C. Administrative Warrant

Also on May 9, 2008, the government applied for and received an administrative warrant from Judge Scoles. ...

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff, v. AGRIPROCESSORS, INC., SHOLOM RUBASHKIN, BRENT BEEBE, HOSAM AMARA and ZEEV LEVI, Defendants. No. 08-CR-1324-LRR. United States District Court, N.D. Iowa, Eastern Division. July 28, 2009.

[Cheskel]

Dr.Moe, give in and move on.

She is a very nice Judge(can we use the word person one her?) with a good hearth.

Any of you who think that antisemitism had nothing to do with it is plain foolish. I can understand that Rubashkin was convicted but to think that zero antisemitism played a role in sentencing,either you guys are lying or stupid.

[effie]

Whoops! Forgot one:

A. Arrest Warrants

After reviewing the government's evidence and finding probable cause, United States Magistrate Judge Jon S. Scoles issued arrest warrants for approximately 700 of Agriprocessors' employees...

So, Judge Jon Scoles issued 3 warrants, while Judge Reade issued none.

[effie]

Mr. A.: errata: I don't think he does it for free.

[WoolSilkCotton]

In the 5 Stages of Greiving, Dr. Moe is still in Stage 1 (still denying any wrongdoing by his hero, still babbling about the 6 AG's). Harold is in Stage 2 (angry at the judge and judicial system). Cheskel is also Stage 2 (sarcastic comments about the judge). 'Hashem yerachem' from 12:43 has already advanced to Stage 3 (talking about appeals and pardons). Other folks on VIN have advanced to Stage 4 (admitting defeat for SMR, sadness that he is screwed, this is golus, nothing else we can do).

Don't worry, all you trolls. In a few more days you'll advance towards Stage 5 (SMR is going to Otisville, where he'll get kosher food, Nusach Ari minyan, lots of time for Torah study, plenty of visitors, G-d will give the family strength to go on, another member of the Rubashkin family arrested for money laundering, etc.).

[Cheskel]

WSC, Again, you dont shit where you eat.

[Dr Moe]

Wools,

not that anything you say is credible, however I agree Rubashkin is Guilty of Financial fraud but he does not deserve 27 years compared to all people who commit worse bank fraud then Sholom Rubashkin and this is known to be a big stain the US Justice system as per officials within the Judicial system are saying.

[Cheskel]

Rubashkin is no ones hero.

I and almost all who were at the rally in Brooklyn are not chabad and disagrees with chabad on almost all issues. I don't know personally any of the Rubashkin family. I do know that he is a fellow Jew in big trouble and we need to help him in any way we can.

To cheer and give hand shakes like WSC ,Bill,Sandra etc when a father of a family goes to prison, what is left to say about such bad sad people.

[harold]

Isn't Linda Reade a compassionate judge

Real compassionate, she gave him jail time because he was late in paying cattlemen. If this was such a horrible crime deserving of jail, then why did the cattleman continue to do business with Rubashkins? Obviously they were making money and wanted to continue their business relationship, this in my eyes removes it from a jail able offense, and I would think also from the eyes of a “compassionate judge”

-------------------------

The company's chief operations officer, Tod Fleming, said Agriprocessors sometimes made late payments, particularly after April 2008, but always paid its debts in full.

Fleming said despite the chronic tardiness, his company continued to do several millions of dollars of business every year with Agriprocessors.

[effie]

She did not give him prison time because of the cattleman. He already defrauded the bank to the tune of over $26 million which put him well into the $20-50 million category and earned him 22 points. She did order that he pay restitution of $3,800 to one livestock supplier. The government failed to show the exact lost to the others and the judge would not estimate it.

[effie]

What? No retraction by Dr. Moe?

[Cheskel]

""She did order that he pay restitution of $3,800 to one livestock supplier.""

To even bring it up shows her true colors when never was something like this enforced. In other words i will give to Rubashkin as hard as it gets

[Robert Wisler]

WoolSilk,
Do they actually have a Chabad-nusach minyan at Otisville prison? Someone mentioned that Mr. Rubashkin will not be allowed to have possession of his religious goods during his transport through the various federal reception centers. If this is true, can we respect a violent reaction from him?

[Shmarya]

""She did order that he pay restitution of $3,800 to one livestock supplier.""

To even bring it up shows her true colors when never was something like this enforced. In other words i will give to Rubashkin as hard as it gets

What in the world are you smoking?

There are hundreds of GIPSA enforcement actions on record.

Past that, do you think before Rubashkin it was kosher to steal cattle? That no one was ever forced to repay what he stole?

You need to remove your Brooklyn blinders.

[effie]

"To even bring it up shows her true colors when never was something like this enforced. In other words i will give to Rubashkin as hard as it gets Posted by: Cheskel"

They weren't paid. She ordered that he pay them as part of his restitution. Since when is not paying people never enforced?

[Cheskel]

Of course it needs to be paid. But his crime was late payment, which was never enforced.

The prosecution went after every cattle supplier to see how much "money they lost in interest" because of late payment and could find only one.

They had an agreement about payment terms and everyone was happy doing business with the Jew Rubashkin. But its still against the law because agreement was not in writing.

[Shmarya]

They had an agreement about payment terms and everyone was happy doing business with the Jew Rubashkin. But its still against the law because agreement was not in writing.

Not at all.

It is illegal to fail to pay in the time period specified by law.

Dealers 'loved' doing business with Rubashkin only because there were few other options. Most beef slaughterhouses long ago closed or moved out of Iowa. There weren't many choices for dealers.

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

Let me repeat a GIPSA link I first posted here a few months ago:

http://www.gipsa.usda.gov/GIPSA/newsReleases?area=newsroom&subject=landing&topic=nr
&summaryYear=2010&x=5&y=8

[WoolSilkCotton]

Robert, I was joking about the Nusach Ari minyan, but who knows if they do or not.

I am sure his personal possessions, including religious gear, will be shipped to his new locale in time for his arrival or shortly thereafter. If his stuff arrives late, he can always borrow a cellmate's tallis and tefillin to make the bracha.

[Cheskel]

As i said they were happy doing business with Rubashkin and once he was put into bankruptcy he became the "Jew" Rubashkin who abused workers, sold drugs didn't pay on time etc. etc.

Do other slaughterhouses do business with cattle dealers and not paying as required by law? Yes. and you will say i don't know or no but don't kid yourself you know reality.

Was it ever enforced in the last 100 years or so? No

[Shmarya]

Was it ever enforced in the last 100 years or so? No

Yes, it was enforced.

Follow FGBA's link and you'll see many enforcement actions for violation of the GIPSA act:

http://www.gipsa.usda.gov/GIPSA/newsReleases?area=newsroom&subject=landing&topic=nr
&summaryYear=2010&x=5&y=8

[effie]

Oh, stop it already! You don't even know what you are arguing and you certainly don't know or care about the actual facts.

He did not get additional prison time because of the failure to pay on time. He was ordered to pay restitution as part of his sentence because he owed them money.

[G]

The Rubbishclan supporters are moving from their initial stage of anger and now are in denial. What comes after? I think it's a profound depression moving into final acceptance. Let us keep track of haredi post traumatic stages; good research material for a thesis.

Posted by: yidandahalf | June 24, 2010 at 07:21 AM

this made me laugh,
yidandahalf,

but the sad thing is that it's probably true

sigh

[Cheskel]

After throwing the book with a life sentence,asking to repay $3800.00 shows some character.

[sage]

Would you make the same cockamamie comment if it was Judge Judy Schiendlin instead of Judge Linda Reade?

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

GIPSA even published a brochure publicizing the Packers and Stockyards Act:
http://archive.gipsa.usda.gov/pubs/psact.pdf

Penalties for Violations

Formal actions brought for violations of the P&S Act may be settled in one of several different ways:

Cease and desist orders.
Suspension of business operations.
Civil penalties up to a maximum of $11,000
per violation; $27,000 for violation of poultry trust provisions.
Permanent injunctions, fines, and jail sen-
tences for actions taken through the Justice
Department.

[Cheskel]

"Would you make the same cockamamie comment if it was Judge Judy Schiendlin instead of Judge Linda Reade?"

Absolutely

[sage]

Then you've proven that you are certifiably nuts.

[David]

The black hats, Yochanan, don't give a fig about anyone but their own sweaty, gabardine clad, dandruff riddled, yellow tzitzis that used to be white, and god forbid you walk into a shteebel on day 3 of a three day yontiff where the stench is unbearable with no one showering even though they took 2 minutes to be mekayim Der Miktzve and stink like rotted whitefish, kind.

Posted by: BPHocker | June 24, 2010 at 09:01 AM

So true. And I can never work out why so many Charedim don't treat their dandruff....or dry clean their tallism. And thank G-d for the mikvah, otherwise some may never bath at all.

[SOP II]

Dr. Moe - You are either a moron or from a different time. The raid didn't shut that hellhole down. The Rubashkins did!

They tried to keep it going that whole summer after the raid but couldn't find a group of people to exploit. They refused to treat people fairly, offer a decent wage and safe work environment. No one would stay and work there.

They did it to themselves when their abusive house of cards came tumbling down in November of 2008.

[chabadnik attorney]

I bless yidandhalf that he should not one day face a tragedy that will give people the "opportunity" (sick) to document his own psychological moving from his initial stage of anger, denial, profound depression and then finally acceptance so that sicker people then he can track his post traumatic stages and make good research material for a thesis (sick).

[NotHarold]

at some point "haredi" morality should be called by its proper name ie "treason".

[lou]

dr. moe--
What do you mean by the bank would have gotten their money back--you mean banks as it was more than one and yes they would have gotten their money back when SMR lied to get more money from another one to repay the other one. It would have been a never ending processes. AND what ever happened to Teri Downing the one that was caught working at the bank in Postville and transfering money all around to make up for AGRI not having enough funds to pay bills???? mmmm--makes you wonder about other stuff that went on doesn't it????

[lou]

It all comes down to this
money and greed---all shalom would have had to say was NO!!!!!!

[effie]

"After throwing the book with a life sentence,asking to repay $3800.00 shows some character. Posted by: Cheskel | June 24, 2010 at 03:13 PM"

It shows the character that you lack. Because the banks were owed millions, you are arguing that it is petty to order restitution to the guy he owed $3800????

And more evidence of your lack of character is your habit of rewriting the facts.

[yidandahalf]

Fellows, they surely are moving through their stages faster than we predicted. Not many of them trolling and they seem to realize Drefus Rubash-in's goose is cooked. They are well into acceptance with oblivion to his cause coming fast. I plan on visiting the convict if possible one day. I urge any of you to make the effort as well. He deserves our commiseration in person at some point in his 'career'.

[Dr Moe]

What do you mean by the bank would have gotten their money back

The
Buisness was run to make money and the Banks were ALWAYS being paid on time till the Raid.

[nachos]

Cheskel:

What about Aaron? Nothing was done without his say so. Why is he letting this happen to his son. Why didn't he step in and take some blame, to help his son!!!! The man is a selfish person.

Cheskel, does he have a "Jewish heart."