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June 24, 2010

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who knows

I was told that prohibition of women president is a recent addition to Young Israel constitution.

Jochanan

In my town, one shul's past president was a woman, the other a ger. But then again, I don't live in a freakin' time warp.

nachos

We wonder what is wrong with Judiasm today!! Rabbi Lerner, perhgaps hashem is sending you a message also through Shalom's sentence? It's all about money!!!

Cheskel: Is this an example of a Jewish heart? I am still waiting for my answer

friend

This has nothing to do with Rubashkin.
Why can't you publish the post on it's own merits?

Neo-Conservaguy

What do you expect from an organization that tries to hide the significant involvement of R. Mordachai Kaplan in its founding? The shul should ditch YI and never look back.

harold

Rubashkin Rabbi

Just what is a "Rubashkin Rabbi"? If a rabbi is a big supporter of Chai Lifeline does he then become a "Chai Lifeline Rabbi"? How absolutely absurd and childish and oh so transparent!

Abracadabra

Neo Conservaguy -

What do you expect from an organization that tries to hide the significant involvement of R. Mordachai Kaplan in its founding?

What who was he? Why do they try to hide that he was involved in it's founding?

Seraphya Berrin

How do they understand all the prohibitions and admonitions about not mistreating the ger?

Yabed

Lerner was a wacko when he supported Rubashkin (against the advise of the constituents) and his deeds reflect on his warped sense of obligation.

He has taken the YI movement away from their purpose and transformed it into a wannabe Aguda. Now that he has profited personally by wiping out the resourses, one wonders what is left for him to rape and pillar from the movement?


annonnnnn

Ask about Lerner and wife Greenwald and in-laws . . . Laniado Hospital anyone

who knows

Although addition of specific exlusion of women and gerim from the office of a president in YI seems to be of recent origin, it is not their invention. It is basic Halacha that excludes them from any positions of communal authority.

YI could have avoided appearing misogynistic and racist by simply stating "YI follows Halacha" in selecting shul presidents. I am sure this exclusion is not spelled out in any Haredi shul constitution, but you'll never see a woman or ger shul president there. They would not even entertain a thought about it so basic the undersatnding of limited rights of these 2 groups is for them.

Yochanan Lavie

Abra: Mordecai Kaplan was a Conservative rabbi who went on to found the Reconstructionist movement. He was involved in Modern Orthodoxy too, back in the day when the two movements were very similar. Reconstruction is apikorsut, by Orthodox lights.

rabbidw

Lerner is all about money. How he survives is simple. The National Young Israel does not exist. There are a YI Synagogues, which have become very right wing. The National organization specializes in press releases. No one cares about it. People become president and stay forever, because no one cares.
Lerner is an SOB and has been one since he took over the organization. Besides press releases, can anyone tell me anything that they have accomplished? They had a big scandal with nursing homes they were involved in, and they were investigated by the State when they wanted to sell their buliding. They drove out their member shul that was in the building. I believe they now have money, which pays Lerner very well, but they still do nothing but Press releases.

Yochanan Lavie

They should change their name to Old Israel.

ysh

who knows is wrong. the ban dates back decades.

itchiemayer

A few months ago I was in New York and visited seperately with Rabbi Lerner and with Rabbi Shafran. I can tell you that while I do appreciate that Rabbi Lerner gave me some of his time, he did not appear to me to be a particularly "warm and fuzzy" guy. I could envision him being a bully at times. Also, he does not even go to a Young Israel shul, which I found odd. He did say that if he went to a YI Shul, the people would nag him constantly and it would be a distraction. Perhaps so, I don't know. It was just a first impression on my part regarding Rabbi Lerner, so it is possible I misread him. As for Rabbi Shafran, I met with him for about 30 minutes in his office, and I came away impressed with him. We had frank discussions about issues on which we disagree such as Rubashkin. However, he was very cordial, open, and seems to be a genuinely nice person. I would not call Rabbi Lerner "Rubashkin Rabbi", as it is misleading.

Shmarya

I would not call Rabbi Lerner "Rubashkin Rabbi", as it is misleading.

Why?

He's been shilling for Rubashkin for years and has taken money from him for pro-Rubashkin activity.

itchiemayer

I also had dinner with Rabbi Greenwald in Monsey. An exceptionally interesting and very nice man, with incredible stories to tell. I only mention this because of the Greenwald reference I just noticed from earlier in the thread. I don't know what anyone might have against him, perhaps he might have supported Mordechai Tendler. Ok, so he would have been wrong on that one. However, I am convinced this is a man of deep conviction who cares about right and wrong. He isn't perfect, but he is one heck of a guy. I hope I have another opportunity to spend time with him.

itchiemayer

Rubashkin Rabbi would be the 7th Grand Rabbi of Lubavitch, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, shlita.

Shmarya

Rubashkin Rabbi would be the 7th Grand Rabbi of Lubavitch, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, shlita.

No, that would be his rebbe.

itchiemayer

His Rebbe, shlita....

itchiemayer

Rabbi Greenwald gave Aharon Weider from the Ramapo School Board some tips on menschlichkeit after Weider came across so poorly at school board meetings.

itchiemayer

Since I'm name dropping, did I tell you I went out with Bar Rafaeli....ok, just kidding.

sifter

I am a member of YI in the midwest. I can't possibly conceive why a woman can not be president, it is a ceremonial post, nothing to do with Halacha. And if a Ger converts halachikally, why can't they be president? What does this say about their confidence in thier own conversion process?

Unfortunately, the only other choices in my area are mostly black hat shuls, not exactly my cup of tea.

This needs to be changed.

Izzy

The (possible) halachik issue with having a woman or convert shul president relates to the concept of "serarah," which can be loosely translated as "authority." Googling that term will result in a number of hits explaining the concept. In the YI shul I attend, the president is the functional chief excutive of the shul, so I can understand why that would be considered serarah.

Devorah

"Rabbi Greenwald gave Aharon Weider from the Ramapo School Board some tips on menschlichkeit after Weider came across so poorly at school board meetings."

Posted by: itchiemayer


If that's the case, Greenwald failed because Aharon is still an idiot. Aharon voted for the budget and then stood at the poles passing out flyers to his people to vote it down!

who knows

Women and gerim are not allowed to have authority. It is halacha. Is it in tune with our times - NO, but it is an unchangable "word of G-d" for the haredi.

Bassy the Haredi Slayer

Pesach Lerner is not a Modern Orthodox he is haredi , he went to Ner Israel and he is buddy of Avi Shafan. How he became the head of Old Israel is a mystery to me.


They worry about women in authority position but it does not prevent them from going to a professional dominatrix.

As Melissa Melissa Febos writes in her memoir , the majority of her clients are Ultra Orthodox and hassidim

http://www.amazon.com/Whip-Smart-Memoir-Melissa-Febos/dp/0312561024

Izzy

Bassy - funny you should say that. I did a search of that book, and that is a misrepresntation of what she says. She says that "Orthodox Jews were amongs our most frequent clients," and recounts one encounter with a Hasid. That is the only time the the words "Orthodox" or "Hasid" appear in her book.
Why do you feel the need to misrepresent/exagerate to make your point?

Nigritude Ultramarine

I was told that prohibition of women president is a recent addition to Young Israel constitution.

As was the prohibition against "righteous converts" -- snort! -- but few people give a crap about them. The hate is strong with this organization.

Nigritude Ultramarine

In my town, one shul's past president was a woman, the other a ger. But then again, I don't live in a freakin' time warp.

Nor do you live in bizzaro world.

sifter

What is the reasoning, then, behind 'serarah'? IF we say a convert has all the merit, and even stands in a place before HaShem where a FFB cannot stand, why would his (or her) authority be at issue?

Regarding women in general, is the authority issue the same as why women can't be Jewish judges?

nachash

Pesach Lerner is neither Modern nor Chareidi. He is a liar and a forger. He looks the other way that a large Young Israel in Westchester has a women's minyan and through forgery he covered up the cherem of the young israel rabbi in Las Vegas who arrested a widow for trespassing after she stopped paying dues to them

joseph

It is clearly a halachick issue. I would say it is clear that those who allow a woman president will allow woman rabbis. At the core they are the same issue. The halachic issue is called serarah. And it goes back to biblical times. The bible tells us when we enter the land to take a king. The sages tell us the biblical verse is telling us a king and not a queen. Maimonidies rules as do many others that women are not allowed to have positions of authority over the community.


See an overview of the historical and halachick discussion by Professor Frimer who is at the forefront of giving greater roles to women in Orthodox Judaism. http://text.rcarabbis.org/?p=931

itchiemayer

Joseph - thanks for the link. It was fascinating and Rabbi Dr. Frimer treated the issue with absolute integrity and fairness.

Jeff Eyges

Orthodoxy as a whole is self-destructing. It can't come quickly enough to suit me.

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