Letter from Rubashkin Lawyers: The "Truth" About The Prosecution

U.S. Attorney Stephanie Rose has decided "silence is no longer in order." But should a U.S. attorney take offense at the exercise of First Amendment rights by American citizens who support Sholom Rubashkin? Rose says Rubashkin's supporters have painted the prosecutors as "racists, Nazis, and zealots." No responsible Rubashkin supporter has said or implied anyone on the prosecution team is a racist or a Nazi.

In an op-ed published today in Iowa, Rubashkin attorneys Nathan Lewin and Guy Cook ignore repeated claims made by Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz and other Rubashkin fundraisers that the prosecution, judge and government are antisemitic.

But Lewin and Cook ignore more than that. For example:

1. Rubashkin attorney James Clarity played the antisemitism card last year, when he compared Iowa to Nazi-occupied Poland..

2. In state court, F. Montgomery Brown, another Rubashkin attorney, in his summation during the child labor trial, called Rubashkin "Moby Jew" and talked about the government "harpooning" him.

3. The haredi press has been full of articles claiming Rubashkin is the victim of a "blood libel" and antisemitism.

4. Monday's massive Brooklyn pro-Rubashkin rally, at which Nathan Lewin was a featured speaker, several speakers, including Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz, cried antisemitism. Lewin did not object. In fact, Lewin praised Lipschutz.

5. After repeatedly criticizing American Jews for their "silence" during the past 5 1/2 years of Rubashkin scandals, Lewin asked "American Jews" to stand up for the wrongly convicted Sholom Rubashkin, as if it was American Jewry that was being persecuted by the Justice Department and the State of Iowa.

Honesty is not the hallmark of defense attorneys, but it should be the hallmark of Jews. As ancient Jewish sages taught, the seal of God is truth. We are expected to emulate God and be truthful.

Both Rubashkin and Lewin are Orthodox Jews. Neither should be engaging in this type of deceitful behavior.

Perhaps Rubashkin has an excuse. After all, he is a convicted felon.

But what excuse does Nathan Lewin have? That he is a defense attorney?

Here is the US Attorney's letter Lewin and Cook are responding to.

Now here is Lewin's op-ed, written with Rubashkin trial attorney Guy Cook, attacking the US Attorney:

The truth about the Postville prosecution

By NATHAN LEWIN and GUY COOK • Des Moines Register

U.S. Attorney Stephanie Rose has decided "silence is no longer in order." But should a U.S. attorney take offense at the exercise of First Amendment rights by American citizens who support Sholom Rubashkin? By writing a guest essay ("Setting the Record Straight on the Postville Prosecution," June 23 Register) that makes assertions neither proven nor tested in court, Rose has opened the propriety of her conduct to discussion.

Nathan Lewin has criticized her in a letter to the Department of Justice. We now challenge her to debate the propriety of the prosecution in a public session. This essay addresses errors in her published defense.

Rose portrays Postville before the May 12, 2008, raid as beset by fear that necessitated the federal government's "massive enforcement operation." Before the immigration raid Postville was enjoying a substantial economic boom because of Agriprocessors' commercial success and substantial employment at the plant. Fears of deportation, creditors or a crumbling economy resulted from - and were not cured by - the ill-conceived raid.

Rose fails to explain why the Department of Homeland Security has reduced substantially the immigration-raid policy she extols. Have the "highest levels of the United States Departments of Justice and Homeland Security" now decided the "fears" Rose graphically describes are in fact caused by immigration raids?

Several U.S. attorneys rejected Immigration and Customs Enforcement's raid requests while they were in office. Her office was asked in a formal lawyer's letter to enter the Postville plant peacefully and remove those they found to be illegal aliens, as had been done in Texas. This peaceful proposal was rejected.

Rose praises the "tireless" federal effort that followed the raid. Professor Erik Camayd-Freixas, a Spanish interpreter, wrote a detailed essay condemning the assembly-line process, and a federal civil rights lawsuit attacked the procedure she lavishly praises. The U.S. Supreme Court held unanimously in May 2009 the identity-theft felony her office threatened to use against the aliens to get them to plead guilty in 2008 was inapplicable to their case and was, therefore, misused by the prosecutors.

Rose says Rubashkin's supporters have painted the prosecutors as "racists, Nazis, and zealots." No responsible Rubashkin supporter has said or implied anyone on the prosecution team is a racist or a Nazi.

Her claim that Rubashkin personally profited from Agriprocessors' funds fails to note he put personal funds into his father's wholly owned business. Agriprocessor funds paid to Sholom Rubashkin were reimbursements for Agri expenses, repayment of loans Rubashkin made to Agri, or funds used for Agri purchases.

Rose claims the accusations against her office are "vicious and false" and "ill-informed." But there are many critical accusations she has failed to answer.

- Was Rubashkin handcuffed and arrested in October 2008 only to generate publicity? The routine procedure is to tell the defendant's lawyer to bring the client in to plead to the charge.

- Why was Rubashkin imprisoned for 76 days before trial on her office's bogus claim he could flee to Israel and would be immune from extradition under Israel's "Law of Return"?

- Were the charges against Rubashkin deliberately multiplied by the office through an unprecedented seven superseding indictments to 163 counts to overwhelm the media, the public and the jury?

- Why was a 1921 law that has never before in U.S. history been used for criminal prosecution invoked when the charges were based on full payments made by Rubashkin 10 days late?

- Did the office prevent sale of the business to any purchaser who might employ any member of the Rubashkin family in a managerial capacity, thereby making a sale of the business virtually impossible?

A consensus of the legal community, including six former U.S. attorneys general, both liberal and conservative, has objected to Rose's overzealousness in her sentencing recommendation.

We trust Rose will debate publicly on these important questions about the propriety of her office's conduct and tactics.

Nathan Lewin is a former deputy U.S. assistant attorney general in the Civil Rights Division, teaches Supreme Court litigation at Columbia Law School, and has argued 27 cases before the U.S. Supreme Court. He is principal appellate counsel for Sholom Rubashkin.

Guy Cook is a Des Moines-based attorney with Grefe & Sidney P.L.C. who was the principal trial counsel for Rubashkin. He has tried more than 200 jury trials and is a former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Iowa. Contact: GCook@grefesidney.com.

Comments

[critical_minyan]

Nat Lewin is playing both sides. To the Charedi press he claims Anti-semitism in an attempt to cover up the fact that his client got 27 years. However, to not damage his reputation worse than it already is with the Justice department, he is careful to distance himself from that statement, saying, "no responsible supporter called this racsim or nazism".
Would he write in a Charedi paper that this wasn't anti-semitism. Obviously not. To the ultra-orthodox, he claims it was a great injustice solely about religion.
His grandstanding is disgusting. His double talking is painfully obvious. He thinks we are stupid and he is able to trick us.

[critical_minyan]

your client got 27 years. Wow you suck.

[Bill]

Here's the fatal flaw in Lewin's argument:

If you assume that no one "responsible," whatever that means, is arguing that Rubashkin was a victim of anti-Semitism, racism, etc. then there is no remedy availabe in the law regarding his claim of disparate treatment, of being "singled out," if you will, for agressive prosecution. The question his poses then become irrelevent.

The prosecution didn't like him. They thought he had a disagreeable personality that would make him easy to convict so they prosecuted him agressively.

So what?

[sage]

Nat Lewin is simply a inverterate liar, who can lie out of both sides of his mouth at the same time.

Nothing more, nothing less.

One of his more notable performances, was at the November, 2006 debate with PETA's Bruce Freidrich, in an Orthodox Shul in Manhattan.

Bruce told the truth and gave great honor to G-d's Torah, while Lewin lied and called PETA a bunch of Nazis.

Needless to say, Lewin's performance was so disgusting, that even the OU was ashamed.

Remarks Bruce gave about the inhumane slaughter in South America, caused an uproar, and the OU had to send out their enforcer Belsky, to calm the street.

[effie]

Since two of the defendants did flee to Israel, one with Rubashkin's help, how can they honestly claim he was not a flight risk? Also, he had a full bail hearing with appellate review on the issue of bail.

Considering the number of times Rubashkin supporters call people on this blog nazis or worse, Lewin is deaf, dumb, and blind.

[Esther]

Finally, someone is willing to state the obvious publicly: Pinny Lipschutz and Chaim Zwiebel are NOT "responsible" supporters of Rubashkin.

[state of disgust]

"Fears of deportation, creditors or a crumbling economy resulted from - and were not cured by - the ill-conceived raid."

This is a lie.

Supervisors regularly told workers that if they caused problems, they would bring in ICE and throw the lot of them out of the country. There was even a walk-out or workers at the plant a month or two before the raid because the workers were afraid SMR was calling in ICE.
Creditors were already beating down Agriprocessors doors BEFORE the raid due to failure to pay their bills. A quick review of Agriprocessors creditors listed in the bankruptcy filing and the dates those debts were incurred proves the point.

[state of disgust]

"Her office was asked in a formal lawyer's letter to enter the Postville plant peacefully and remove those they found to be illegal aliens, as had been done in Texas. This peaceful proposal was rejected."

Agri ignored repeated "no-match" letter notification and had a history of requiring US government officials to first obtain a court order before entry to the plant was allowed. So now you have the chutzpah to complain when the Government first gets a court order before conducting a raid?

[state of disgust]

Rose I'm sure will not debate Lewin.

Lewin is a pig and wrestling with pig only means you will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

The Des Moines Register also published the letter Mr. Lewin sent to the Justice Department in Washington back in April:
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/assets/pdf/D2160026624.PDF

[p]

Rubashkin zealots are on record as calling her all sorts of names. They even insinuate death threats against Judge Reade. While my heart aches for Mr. Rubashkin, he must request his supporters to stop shooting their mouths off with threats. otherwise he may have extra company in jail.

See the following URL to see for yourself:

http://www.therobingroom.com/Judge.aspx?ID=1305

[rebeljew]

"Rose says Rubashkin's supporters have painted the prosecutors as "racists, Nazis, and zealots." No responsible Rubashkin supporter has said or implied anyone on the prosecution team is a racist or a Nazi."

As a veteran of the Bill Clinton years, I am surprised how many were enraged by this statement. It is true. No one on the team ever called prosecutor A, B, or C any of these names, nor did anyone in authority in the Rubashkin supporting world, AFAIK.

[sage]

+++ Rose I'm sure will not debate Lewin.

Lewin is a pig and wrestling with pig only means you will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.

Posted by: state of disgust | June 25, 2010 at 07:22 AM +++

Maybe there should be a debate, with Judge Judy Scheindlin and Judge Linda Reade as moderators.

All Stephanie would have to do is tell the truth, as Bruce Friedrich did back in 2006.

Same strategy, same results.

[SOP II]

Having lived through this whole damned thing from the beginning, I feel qualified to posit a couple of thoughts here.

First and foremost, I am a Christian. As such, I try to follow the life of a Christian, employing my faith and my actions so that they reflect the teachings I follow. That means I have forgiven Rubashkin and pray for him and his family every day. Those same prayers also include the victims on both sides of this fiasco.

SMR was led astray by a force that can only be controlled by a strong faith and an even stronger adherence to the teachings one follows, be you Christian or Jew. We all know how difficult it can be to fight that force; a force of temptation and an easy life here on earth. We must all be more conscious of the life that awaits us and need to stop focusing on making this life easy. That is what faith is all about. If we remain true to what we are taught, the greater reward awaits us. That means we have to face the challenges and temptations that beset us every minute of every day and remain focused on living on the path. It is extremely difficult to ignore the tempataion of an easy life in the now for the promise of a beautiful eternity. It takes sacrifice, discipline and an open heart. Sadly, this life seems easiest when we take instead of sacrifice, live without conscince instead of being disciplined in our bahavior, and to live with a closed heart so we mask the hurt we may cause others.

This is the basic premise of both our faiths - that we live our lives treating people as we ourselves would be treated.

How is it all the "pious" people involved in this travesty ignore this premise so easily, yet loudly proclaim their self-perceived rightousness at the same time? The answer is simple...we are not the faithful followers we claim to be. The loudest voices in all of this are Godless sociopaths without a conscience wearing their cloak of "faith" like armor to protect them from the seeing the wrong they are doing. They deserve our prayers and forgiveness (as we are taught) to bring them back to the path that leads to our ultimate reward.

I feel SMR's punishment was too harsh. Is that perhaps the penalty we must pay for becoming a nation of lawyers living by the laws of man instead of the laws of G-d?

We have brought this upon ourselves. The laws of man serve only man - and they serve only to make man feel he is doing the right thing. Ultimately, the punishment meted out by earthly judges will pale in comparison to the verdicts handed down by the Heavenly Judge.

Get a life, people...literally. Start LIVING the way we are taught instead of pretending you are living the life we have been taught. Stop masqerading and parading behind the laws of man and start living by the laws of G-d. We'd have a lot less trouble and a lot fewer lawyers.

[Shmarya]

Stop masqerading and parading behind the laws of man and start living by the laws of G-d. We'd have a lot less trouble and a lot fewer lawyers.

You forget that Jews have an entire corpus of religious law. One of those laws by some interpretations allows guys like Rubashkin to steal from non-Jews. (Think Church Canon Law until recent times.)

What we need, I think, is more humanism and less religion.

[HadEnuff]

Shmarya.

Ever consider submitting an Op-Ed rebuttle of your own? Maybe the NYT?

This was beautiful:

"Honesty is not the hallmark of defense attorneys, but it should be the hallmark of Jews. As ancient Jewish sages taught, the seal of God is truth. We are expected to emulate God and be truthful.

Both Rubashkin and Lewin are Orthodox Jews. Neither should be engaging in this type of deceitful behavior"

[Shmarya]

"Rose says Rubashkin's supporters have painted the prosecutors as "racists, Nazis, and zealots." No responsible Rubashkin supporter has said or implied anyone on the prosecution team is a racist or a Nazi."

As a veteran of the Bill Clinton years, I am surprised how many were enraged by this statement. It is true. No one on the team ever called prosecutor A, B, or C any of these names, nor did anyone in authority in the Rubashkin supporting world, AFAIK.

They just decried the government's 'antisemitism' and stood silently by as the haredi street screamed "Nazis!"

And now, when it is convenient, after more than 2 years of his silence on this issue, after not condemning those who screamed antisemitism, Lewin says it isn't his fault. More than that, he says it didn't happen.

[sage]

Shmarya,

SOP II made a comment worth much reflection.

G-d said in the Ten Statements: "You shall not steal."

Stealing is also prohibited in the Noachide Laws, given to all of mankind, by G-d.

If there are Jewish laws that can be interpreted as giving Jews the right to steal from non-Jews, they need to be struck out of Jewish jurisprudence.

[Shmarya]

Shmarya.

Ever consider submitting an Op-Ed rebuttle of your own? Maybe the NYT?

This was beautiful…

Thanks!

[SOP II]

Shmarya -

"What we need, I think, is more humanism and less religion."

Point well taken. But don't you think the very definition of humanism would start with the "Golden Rule"?

[Devorah]

They should stop all fund raising for Rubashkin and donate all money collected to help sexual abuse victims in their community. It's too late for SMR, but our victims can maybe start a new life.

[SOP II]

Shmarya - One more point...

Just as is the case with Christianity, the Laws followed by the Jews have been written by Jews. All faiths have added their own interpretations of "God's Laws". They have done it to tailor their own desires (ultimately perceived as needs) and make it easier for them to follow the Laws as they were originally passed down to us. There are only ten of those to follow. That should be pretty easy.

We are solely responsible for the mess we are all in.

[state of disgust]

If the Haredi community was serious, they would collect money to be given to the creditors who were injured by Agriprocessors to help make them whole.

[Shmarya]

SOP 2,

Regarding the Golden Rule, Hillel said the same thing first. That's where Jesus got it from.

But the idea of not hurting others and of not doing to others what you would find hateful if done to you would be a good start.

[Isa]

""""""If there are Jewish laws that can be interpreted as giving Jews the right to steal from non-Jews, they need to be struck out of Jewish jurisprudence.

Posted by: sage | June 25, 2010 at 09:14 AM """""

The Tanya from Chabad says in effect non-Jews have no soul. If one follows this 'teaching' along a 'path' guess what the result is...
There were people here like Ber that called Guat. children 'vermin'
Guess what such people have become...

Our oppressors from WWII but w/o the final solution!

[rebeljew]

SR

And that is the point. No one said these things about anyone on the prosecutor team. It was always said about the entire office as a unit, the entire government or the entire justice system, ad nauseum, but never about "anyone" or "any ONE" in particular, which is what he states in his op-ed. Sort of makes you nostalgic, in a way, trying to parse words in lawyer shprech.

[Shmarya]

And that is the point. No one said these things about anyone on the prosecutor team. It was always said about the entire office as a unit, the entire government or the entire justice system, ad nauseum, but never about "anyone" or "any ONE" in particular, which is what he states in his op-ed. Sort of makes you nostalgic, in a way, trying to parse words in lawyer shprech.

Lewin is such a lying sleaze. He should be disbarred.

[Office of the Chief Rabbi]

Shmarya,
I realize blogs, e-mails, etc. are the bastion of proper spelling, but in at least two loci you have referred to "Cannon" law. Please realize it is "Canon," and actually has a Hebrew derivation: קנה meaning "cane, reed, stick." Such a reed was used as a measuring device, and to say something is canonized is to say that it measures up.

Cannon law is when they shoot you.

[Office of the Chief Rabbi]

Whoops...meant
"are NOT the bastion..."

[Yoel Mechanic]

I did look here:
http://www.therobingroom.com/Judge.aspx?ID=1305
and noted with alarm the mostly negative comments. Like a lot of blogs many many people are talking in this "know it all" style. How do they know what they are talking about? All experts? The blogs are like electronic graffiti on bathroom walls, and perhaps only a tiny fraction of people engage in this but I am beginning to wonder if it is a bunch of hot-heads who think they know-it-all, and mouth off with anonymity. There is simply no way to know if anyone has a clue when they comment like this. I wish people would have some degree of self control and not comment unless they really know what they are talking about (but am dismayed... as a reader it is ever hard to know. The problem is the cautious are quiet, while the yahoos, etc. etc. you know the story.) I would also urge caution in using that website to draw conclusions in any direction.

[sage]

+++ Posted by: Isa | June 25, 2010 at 09:38 AM +++

Many thanks, Isa!!!!!!!

[Shmarya]

Shmarya,
I realize blogs, e-mails, etc. are the bastion of proper spelling, but in at least two loci you have referred to "Cannon" law. Please realize it is "Canon," and actually has a Hebrew derivation: קנה meaning "cane, reed, stick." Such a reed was used as a measuring device, and to say something is canonized is to say that it measures up.

Thanks for the correction, OCR.

[WoolSilkCotton]

The psychopathic hate unleashed against the judge by the Rubashkin Acolytes, of which we here only see a tiny taste through Dr. Moe, Cheskel, Harold, Sarah, etc., should serve notice on society that we are dealing with a potentially violent group of religious fanatics.

The FBI should obtain all the computer data from these sites and trace the sources.

Shmarya, if you do publish an OP-ED piece in the NY Times or other major newspaper, you should include postings and quotes from the usual trolls, including the hate, the racism, the veiled threats, the cursing of the judge and jury, etc. all done in the name of their 'love' for their 'fellow yid'.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Where are our trolls today? Have they all advanced to Stage 4 of the grief process, i.e. depression?

[critical_minyan]

Nat Lewin and Guy Gook's client got 27 years. If they had taken the plea deal they could have gotten him 12. If Lewin hadn't grandstanded against PETA, Rubashkin probably would have gotten a fine, probably less then 100k, and never would have faced a full scale investigation from the justice department or ICE.
The justice department lives for publicity. They can't go after every criminal, they want publicity for the cases they pursue, to deter other people from committing crimes. Nat Lewin did his client a real disservice by debating, instead of trying to make the problem go away with as little publicity as possible.

[Yoel Mechanic]

I looked here:
http://www.therobingroom.com/Judge.aspx?ID=1305
And wish to clarify my earlier comment. I was referring only to the very recent posts from this month, and wondering if it might be hot-heads with a know-it-all style. However there are comments there that goes years back, that *are* interesting. Your mileage may vary.

[MM]

"

Shmarya - One more point...

Just as is the case with Christianity, the Laws followed by the Jews have been written by Jews. All faiths have added their own interpretations of "God's Laws". They have done it to tailor their own desires (ultimately perceived as needs) and make it easier for them to follow the Laws as they were originally passed down to us. There are only ten of those to follow. That should be pretty easy.

We are solely responsible for the mess we are all in."

SOP II, what you say above is solely from a Christian perspective. In fact, according to Orthodox Jewish teaching, the entire Torah, both written and oral, was given by G-d to Moses on behalf of the nation of Israel at Mt. Sinai. There are not just ten laws to follow, but rather 613, plus a vast body of commentary and corollaries, and following them is anything but easy. Es is schver ein yid zu sein. Non-Jews such as yourself have but seven laws to follow (the code of Noah), and they are relatively easy: prohibitions of idolatry, murder, theft, sexual misconduct, blasphemy, and eating any part of a living animal plus a positive injunction to have a just legal system. Any non-Jew who follows these seven laws is deemed to be a righteous gentile and to have a part in Olem ha-Ba, the World to Come.

You are right though when you say that we are all personally responsible for the messes we make.

[Isa]

+++

Where are our trolls today? Have they all advanced to Stage 4 of the grief process, i.e. depression?

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | June 25, 2010 at 10:53 AM +++

Question:

What is the stage number where they jump off a bridge?

[sage]

A bridge to nowhere?

[Isa]

+++The FBI should obtain all the computer data from these sites and trace the sources.....
the veiled threats, .....

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | June 25, 2010 at 10:47 AM
++++

In such cases of death threats the government takes off its 'velvet gloves'and goes 'hard ball'

Guess who gets their taxes audited, businesses investigated, etc

[effie]

Yoel Mechanic: I looked at the website the day of the verdicts. You're right - most are not what they claim to be. However, there are a few defense attys who are posting anonymously and being extremely nasty. I wouldn't believe what they say, either.

[effie]

I did a very unscientific study that is probably very inaccurate: I plugged her name into two different legal search engines and looked to see how many of her cases were actually reversed. I didn't find any. I found a few that were remanded back for reconsideration of sentencing factors, but that was because congress changed the law.

I question the accuracy because I don't think these search engines include every unpublished case though they seem to be including more of them these days.

Regardless, I get the picture that she is very careful when she is pronouncing sentence. When the COA found small errors, they deemed them harmless because she stated on the record, as she did in SMR's sentence, that if the case was remanded back she would then add other factors into the sentencing equation that she omitted because she felt the sentence was high enough.

She is also known as tough on sentence but because she makes a careful record justifying it, it is not considered unreasonable.

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

I think I can answer some of the questions the defense lawyers posted.

1. Q. Was Rubashkin handcuffed and arrested in October 2008 only to generate publicity? A. No, they were afraid he would flee if asked to surrender.

2. Q. Why was Rubashkin imprisoned for 76 days? A. Because the magistrate, in another matter, signed a report from an investigator indicating the defendant was destroying records. Besides, everybody in banking knows the way to smoke out frauds is to keep suspects off the premises for a few weeks.

3. Q. Were the charges against Rubashkin deliberately multiplied? A. But, of course! The prosecutors want to get free advertising for their slogan, "Crime Doesn't Pay". The dirty little secret is that it didn't increase any jail time.

4. Q. Why was a 1921 law that has never efore in U.S. history been used for criminal prosecution invoked? A. Because as some of the guilty verdicts confirmed, the charges were warranted. The dirty little secret is that it didn't increase any jail time.

5. Q. Did the office prevent sale of the business to any purchaser who might employ any member of the Rubashkin family? A. To keep investors from losing their money if the government was able to get the courts to shut down the business as a criminal enterprise.

[state of disgust]

FGBA:
Good response!
Problem is some of the original actors in this little drama are still employed by Hershey Friedman. Because of that, I still don't trust the kashrut at this plant and won't buy their product.

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

I should add to the above 12:43 post that those were the opinions I expressed on this site at the time the events took place.

[OMG]

Effie, a few days back you requested, if someone knows to explain the federal system of serving full time. To make a long story short, about a year ago I was involved in the federal system as a victim in a famous sexual molestation case the defendant go 30 years but on the web site it had a release date of 27.4 years. I called the ADA she explained to me that almost nobody serves 100% of the dates sentences. It is usually 80-85% depending on deferent factors age, health, and behavior. After he is in his permanent facility you could go on the DOC web page and a search it will give you the date he should be released.

[OMG]

sorry should say the defendant *got* 30 years

[sage]

A Free Offer,

After the Lewin-Freidrich Debate in 2006, I was sent 3 independently recorded audio files, covering the entire debate. [None of them had the whole thing]

I spliced them into one contiuous audio file, which fits onto two Labeled CD's.

If Shmarya wants to participate, please send him a request for the CD's, giving him, not me, your mailing address.

He will email me for enough CD's, that I will mail to him, to fill requests.

There will be no charge whatsoever.

[OMG]

here is the link

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp

[effie]

OMG: Thanks! I read up quite a bit on federal sentences years ago. The BOP locator shows the projected date of release - not the sentence. Inmates are entitled to credit for all presentence detention which would also determine the projected date of release.

At one time I had downloaded a manual, but I no longer see it posted. It was huge. The laws are complicated and made more complicated by the fact that the laws at the time of the crime/sentence control.

I know they got rid of parole and I thought there was a small amount of credits they could earn towards release. They also have this relatively new program which is only a 6 month early release after the inmate serves 10 years and if he is over 50.

All I know is that the feds are pretty strict. People here were claiming he would be released after 10 years or so which is ridiculous.

[Dr. Dave]

... called Rubashkin "Moby Jew"

There is no antisemitism here. The Judge and prosecutors hate SMR because they think he's fat!!!

[effie]

Here we go: http://www.bop.gov/DataSource/execute/dsPolicyLoc

Looks like he can earn 54 days credit a year if he gets his GED.

[effie]

Dr. Dave: His own defense attys referred to him as Moby Jew -- not the Judge or prosecutors.

[Successful Messiah]

"Rubashkin attorney James Clarity played the antisemitism card last year, when he compared Iowa to Nazi-occupied Poland."

That reference was to potential bias of the jury pool, not the prosecution.

"In state court, F. Montgomery Brown, another Rubashkin attorney, in his summation during the child labor trial, called Rubashkin "Moby Jew" and talked about the government "harpooning" him."

That was the state trial, not the federal trial.

"After repeatedly criticizing American Jews for their "silence" during the past 5 1/2 years of Rubashkin scandals, Lewin asked "American Jews" to stand up for the wrongly convicted Sholom Rubashkin, as if it was American Jewry that was being persecuted by the Justice Department and the State of Iowa."

This "as if it was American Jewry that was being prosecuted" is crap that you made and then try to attribute to Lewin. His message was a simple, a Jew was wronged, be it because of anti-semitism or some other reason, so we should speak up on his behalf.

"Honesty is not the hallmark of defense attorneys"

You wouldn't know what honesty is if it bit you in the ass.

"We are expected to emulate God and be truthful."

Do you believe in God?

[Bill]

"Looks like he can earn 54 days credit a year if he gets his GED." Posted by: effie

That would be bittul Toyreh and a waste of time.

Rabbi Rubashkin should use the time to study Torah instead.

:)

[Shmarya]

I see dull messiah thinks he's being pithy.

The real question, oh dull one, isn't whether I believe in God – it's whether you believe in God.

Your conduct here of the past years would lead many people to believe that, as much as you may profess otherwise, you do not.

As for the rest of your little missive, the point – which you characteristically miss – is that Sholom Rubashkin's defense team in both trials regularly played the antisemitism card and stoked the flames of haredi hatred.

Find examples of these clowns standing before haredi crowds and telling them to back off the antisemitism card.

Of course you can't do that, can you?

[sage]

+++ "We are expected to emulate God and be truthful." +++

Yes.

Then why are Nathan Lewin and SMR liars?

[Dr Moe]

"ANA McCARTHY: I was there to meet with Father Paul and Sister Bradly. I waited by a couple and was talking to them. We could hear what Walsh was saying. He was coaching them, telling them about the rights, what they could do to get legal state. He said they had to say they were being abused by Mr. Rubashkin. told them he was a filthy Jew who became rich at their expense. telling them they could get deported..

ANA McCARTHY: Walsh got upset when he came out and saw me, Father and Sister did nothing. Walsh almost assaulted me. I tried to reach Jewish Council for Urban affairs.
ANA McCARTHY: I complained to Catholic church, referred to Sister Bradly"

Dear Judge Linda Reade:
You got the "FILTHY JEW".

[Dr. Dave]

Dr. Dave: His own defense attys referred to him as Moby Jew -- not the Judge or prosecutors.

Effie - I know. I was jokingly trying to stir something up.

And how about those fat chareidim psuhing around those poor skinny sefaradi girls.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Dr. Moe and Successful Messiah emerge from their burrow, see their shadows, then go scampering back down the hole.

Today, Tammuz 13, must be Chasidic Groundhogs' Day.

There will be 6 more weeks of their melodramatic hyperbolical vitriol about the Meat Messiah's trial and sentence.

[Dr Moe]

Woools,

Why are you barking? you and your gang should be happy by now and I would agree with Honorable Justice Reade, she finally got the Jew, you should have had your party by now with Morris Allen your gang leader at Taco Bell, even though Sholom Rubashkin was convicted of for something you and your Gang accused of him doing which was Illegal Immigration workers and Harboring Minors to work at the plant.

[Dr Moe]

Woools,

Why are you barking? you and your gang should be happy by now and I would agree with Honorable Justice Reade, she finally got the Jew, you should have had your party by now with Morris Allen your gang leader at Taco Bell, even though Sholom Rubashkin was NOT convicted of something you and your Gang accused of him doing which was Illegal Immigration workers and Harboring Minors to work at the plant.

[effie]

"There will be 6 more weeks of their melodramatic hyperbolical vitriol about the Meat Messiah's trial and sentence."

I dunno. I think we are going to be subjected to years of March on Washington, "I Am Shlomo Rubaskin" t-shirts, the naming of streets in Paris, Rue de Rubashkin, and giant papier mache heads, street theatre, and pupperty.

WWSRD

[Dr Moe]

I dunno. I think we are going to be subjected to years of March on Washington, "I Am Shlomo Rubaskin" t-shirts, the naming of streets in Paris, Rue de Rubashkin, and giant papier mache heads, street theatre, and pupperty.

I did not know Sholom Rubashkin was that popular!

[sage]

Hi Effie,

I agree with WSC, that there will be 6 weeks of this nonsense.

It's exactly the same time that the uproar over MacArthur's firing lasted, during which all kinds of nasty things were said about the President and his Secretary of State, with efigies of both of them burned around the country.

It didn't bother either of them a bit, as this is what sometimes comes from holding high political office.

In this case, the SMR dummies better be careful. Throwing vile stones at the US Judiciary and a sitting Federal Judge could seriously backfire, and may make a very unwelcome visit by Uncle RICO to 770, more likely.

[WoolSilkCotton]

VIN has already gone more than 24 hours without any mention of SMR.
On previous days when they did have threads about him, they were already allowing postings which dared to criticize the holy Meat Messiah's illegal dealings and the need to curtail the caterwauls of antisemitism.

On crownheights.info, there are only 1 or 2 daily stories about SMR, and their content is becoming more abstract and philosphical. Some replies are even criticizing the Meat Messiah. That would have been unheard of on crownheights.info only a few weeks ago. More and more responders are also displeased about the anti-Semitic rhetoric.

Very interesting item on crownheights.info, Rabbi Shemtov of Philadelphia was quoted as saying “this is not a Lubavitcher problem but a Lubavitcher with a problem”. There is an interesting exchange of opinions about this on ch.info.
Chinks in the Rubashkin Amen Chorus' armor are definitely appearing.

http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=27291

Of course, we will still see plenty of lunacy from the haredi/chasidic world on the SMR matter, and from the usual fools here- Real Joe, Dr. Moe, Successful Messiah, Sarah, Cheskel, Harold, etc. but there is no doubt, even though it's only the 5th day since the sentencing, that some folks in the chasidic world are starting to think for themselves.

[Bill]

"The SMR dummies better be careful" - sage

Sage,

it's too late for that.

the appelate devision surely know that Judge Reade is being accused of anti-Semitism. This will undoubtedly factor into every decision they make in this case.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Any marches or protests for SMR by chasidic knuckleheads that take place outside of chasidic neighborhoods will be about as effective as the NK protests in Manhattan against Israel.

Outside of their little ghetto worlds, they are quickly recognized as the lunatics and freakazoids that they are, once they appear en masse.
They will only embarrass themselves and whatever stupid 'cause' for which they march.

I do like the idea of an SMR piñata, or a WWSMRD rubber bracelet.

[Bill]

... the tacit and implicit threat here is that if the appelate division doesn't reduce Rubashkin's sentence, then it too will be accused of anti-Semitism.

And what's the one thing that federal judges hate the most?

You got it! it's being threatened. When they are threatened, they come down hard and punish.

[effie]

But...but...I already ordered the t-shirts...

Somebody suggested Bin Laden piñatas after 9/11 which I thought was a great idea.

[seymour]

maybe the epic battle that is taking place in Israel is also taking holds in the USA.

Maybe this judge and others are getting sick of the Heridie community thinking they are above the US laws. They are sick that very time a frum person gets arrested the community screams antisemitism or that the community feels goyim have no right to judge them and only they can judge themselves. In addition, the defenders never show remorse neither their defenders in the frum community. And of course the attidute frum = innocent 100% of the time is starting to piss people off.

Maybe this judge is telling the community, we are in charge, and you guys better start following secular laws and not hide behind Jewish laws. or, just because he supplied cheap kosher meat he should be able to break the law.

One cannot even tell them anymore more move to EY, since in EY they also finally figured out this guys are a cult only based on Judaism. And have nothing to do with real Torah Judaism. They are idol worshipers and their idol is their corrupt leaders.

remember most heridie leaders hate Israel, protect molesters, abuse victims of abuse, think nothing is wrong to steal, cheat, lie as long as it goes to yeshivas or kollel.
and of course blame everything that happens to Jews that are bad on the secular and anything good on their learning Torah.

If mr. Yoeli can blame the holocaust on the secular, and his rescue by Zionists only on God and not Zionist. That is one deeply disturbed community.

[seymour]

and of course blame everything that happens to Jews that are bad on the secular and anything good on their learning Torah. even when their is a war and secular Jews are being killed, injured they have the chutzpa to say the war was won not by the soldiers who fought, but by them because they did not fight and stayed in their comfortable safe home learning Torah.

Am I wrong or is something very disturbing about they way they think

[effie]

It would be improper for the judge or any judge to hold what happens outside the courtroom and by other people including the defense lawyers against a defendant. However, I'm sure the prosecutors are annoyed by this type of behavior.

[seymour]

effie

true but everybody is human

[Bill]

seymour,

I like what you are saying.

here's a novel idea;

The judge, not the rabbi, will decide whether "Dina de'malchuta dina" (secular law prevails).

What a 'radical' concept!!

[Mark]

Rubashkin is a meth manufacturer and his Master Race creed teaches that his Gentile workers are not even human:

"Elder Brothers" Caught manufacturing methamphetamine at the their kosher slaughterhouse, http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2008/05/elder-brothers-caught-manufacturing.html

Rubashkins required "Noahide Law" training for workers they abused and defrauded, http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2008/11/rubashkin-shysters-required-noahide-law.html

"The best of the gentiles should all be killed." Sopherim 15, rule 10

“Gentile souls are of a completely different and inferior order. They are totally evil, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever… their material abundance derives from supernal refuse. Indeed, they themselves derive from refuse, which is why they are more numerous than the Jews…” Habad: The Hasidism of Schneur Zalman of Lyady Pp. 108-109

"…The souls of [Gentiles]… contain no good whatever…"
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/7880/jewish/Chapter-1.htm

[effie]

"Don't be stupid, don't be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party!"
http;//markisacrazyjewhater.com

[Mark]

The Torah, the rabbis, and the Israeli press state that Gentiles are not human and should all be killed... but, in Effie's view, they are not crazy haters. Go figure.

The Complete Guide to Killing Non-Jews
Ma’ariv 09.11.09 (p. 2) by Roi Sharon
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/964/186.html?hp=1&loc=1&tmp=3416
Here is a full translation of the article in the Maariv newspaper of Israel
http://didiremez.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/

Rabbi Eliyahu exhorts the killing of women and children:
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=63137

Rabbis Yitzhak Ginzburg and Yaakov Yosef endorse Rabbi Yitzhak Shapiro’s 2009 book endorsing the killing of babies and children, adding “It is permissable to kill the Righteous among Nations even if they are not responsible for [threatening Israel]. If we kill a Gentile who has sinned or has violated one of the seven commandments - because we care about the commandments - there is nothing wrong with the murder."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1126890.html

[Bill]

mark,

every orthodox yeshiva teaches that the life of a gentile is less valuable than a jew's.

tell us something we don't already know...

[Mark]

For the record, Effie, I condemn ALL racial supremacist creeds, so condemn both Judaism and Nazism.

Israel’s national poet:

"I too, like Hitler, believe in the power of the blood idea" -Chaim Nachman Bailik, “The Present Hour” (1934).

Bill, some posting here have claimed that Judaism honors truth, so evidently they "don't already know":

JUDAISM’S HERMENEUTIC OF DECEIT

CATEGORIES OF LYING PERMITTED BY THE TORAH:

scholarship (including Torah scholarship), sexuality, and hospitality
The Talmud: The Steinsaltz Edition, Vol II, p.49

lying to gentiles (Baba Kamma 113a)

for "peace" (meaning, "it's OK to lie to keep out of trouble") (Yebamoth 65b)

when everyone should know you are lying, "guzmah" (Hullin 90b)

It is strictly forbidden to moser [inform the non-Judaic authorities on] either a Jewish person or his property. One who mosers a Jewish person or his property has no share in the world to come. (Shulchan Aruch, Choshen Mishpat, 388)

[WoolSilkCotton]

It never ceases to amaze me how the mere mention of 'Rubashkin' bring all kinds of creatures out from behind the woodwork.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Mark, you need to break the Prozac tablets in half.

[Mark]

Wool Silk Cotton,

Those are the rabbis' teachings, not mine.

And I have no reason to believe that Prozac will help them, but perhaps Holy Water and exorcism will.

[Dr Moe]

Nat Lewin and Aliza Lewin says live for the record on the Zev Brenner Show that this was NOT Anti Semitism, however Rubashkin did get a sentence more then people who committed way more Billions of dollars in Bank fraud but got merely 2 years and one day in jail plus a fine:

http://matzav.com/audio-nat-and-aliza-lewin-discuss-rubashkin-case-with-zev-brenner

[Dr Moe]

Nat Lewin and Guy Gook's client got 27 years. If they had taken the plea deal they could have gotten him 12

There was NEVER ever a plea deal put on the table from day 1 and you cannot even post a link to backup your statement.

The DA wanted him toast from day 1.

[effie]

Mark: You're a nazi. Go to hell.

[Isa]

+++++

Mark: You're a nazi. Go to hell.

Posted by: effie | June 26, 2010 at 09:27 PM ++++

Me too
Mark you are a Nazi or KKK go to Hell

[Mark]

Effie,

You are dyslexic, full of rage and hate, and have great moral confusion.

I condemn ALL racial supremacist creeds, so condemn both Judaism and Nazism.

You should work to overcome the genocidal teachings of the Torah, the rabbis, and the Israeli press.

[Dr Moe]

Mark,

Actually it is your here, you would fit perfectly on the Rubashkin Jury or even the Judge on the Rubashkin case.

[effie]

Mark: You should go to hell.

[Mark]

Actually, Moe, there are more critical issues than the deserved fate of one cruel swindler and methamphetamine manufacturer, important things like ending mass crimes against humanity and bringing the perpetrators and inciters to justice.

Engage and empower the International Court at the Hague to identify, prosecute, and, if convicted, punish ALL perpetrators and inciters of genocide and crimes against humanity.

The Court would not just run nonagenarian Nazis to ground, but ALL perpetrators and inciters of genocide, slavery (including sex slavery), usury, organized crime, and the dynastic swindlers, monopolists, and banksters that cause so much worldwide misery as to constitute genuine crimes against humanity.

Punish the guilty; leave the innocent alone.

[Mark]

Isa seems to share Effie's dyslexia.

I condemn ALL racial supremacist creeds, so condemn Judaism and Nazism and the KKK.

It is an irony though that Isa condemns me who opposes racial supremacism, but Isa does not condemn the racist "Great Rambam":

"Some of the Turks and the nomads in the North, and the Blacks and the nomads in the South, and those who resemble them in our climates. And their nature is like the nature of mute animals, and according to my opinion they are not on the level of human beings, and their level among existing things is below that of a man and above that of a monkey, because they have the image and the resemblance of a man more than a monkey does."

Maimonides explaining who is not fit to participate in Olem ha-Ba, the world to come, Guide for the Perplexed, Book III, chapter 51 cited in Israel Shahak, Hebrew University Professor, Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years. London: Pluto Press, 1997. p. 25.

See Google Books at:

http://tinyurl.com/yew88mb

[effie]

You're a lying pos and a nazi.

[Mark]

Lying? No. Check the reference.

Nazi? No. I have condemned that and still do condemn it.

Is it really that difficult for you to wrap your mind around principled opposition to ALL genocide?

Or is it just that you ascribe to Judaism's teaching that genocide of Jews is infinitely wicked, but genocide of goyim is a mitzvah?

[Mark]

"The Christians are idolaters, and Sunday is their holiday..." [Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Avodah Zorah, 9;4]

"The Christians are worshipers of Avodah Zorah ["idolatry"]" [Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Ma'akhalot Assurot, 11:7]

"It is a mitzvah [religious duty], however, to eradicate Jewish traitors, minim [Christians], and apikorsim, ["heretics," i.e., sincere Judaic converts to Christianity] and to cause them to descend to the pit of destruction, since they cause difficulty to the Jews and sway the people away from God, as did Jesus of Nazareth and his students, and Tzadok, Baithos, and their students. May the name of the wicked rot." [Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Chapter 10]

"... a gentile who worships false gods is liable, [for the death penalty] provided he worships them in the accepted manner. A gentile is executed for every type of foreign worship which a Jewish court would consider worthy of capital punishment." [Maimonides, Hilchot Melachim XI, Mishneh Torah]

The Jewish Encyclopedia affirms that the punishment for Christian "idolatry" is beheading. See:
"Laws, Noachian," Jewish Encyclopedia entry,
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=113&letter=L

[Jose Gonzalez]

The Rabbinical Centre of Europe has expressed their disgust with the actions taken against Rabbi Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin. You guys are acting like Goim; maybe this is a goishe crowd. You and that anti-semitic evil Judge are all the same.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3910628,00.html

Every Jew makes the same request:"Free Rubashkin!" We have not seen such unity in the Jewish world since the times of the former Soviet Union.

[Jose Gonzalez]

European rabbis: Rubashkin sentence 'sinister'

[Mark]

If there is much unity of opinion in the world, it is this:

The Goldstone Report
http://tinyurl.com/ydbgh7k

Israeli War Crimes: From the U.S.S. Liberty to the Humanitarian Flotilla by James Petras, June 5, 2010
http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/06/israeli-war-crimes-from-the-u-s-liberty-to-the-humanitarian-flotilla/

From Klinghoffer to the Gaza Flotilla
By Yvonne Ridley
http://www.counterpunch.com/ridley06022010.html

‘Israel is now a Lunatic State’ – Norman Finkelstein on Gaza Flotilla Attack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB_CKL5h2_8&feature=player_embedded

The Madness of Arrogance: Israel's Attack on the Gaza Aid Flotilla
by Dr. Alan Sabrosky / May 31st, 2010
http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/05/the-madness-of-arrogance/

Israeli Butchery at Sea by Gild Atzmon May 31, 2010
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/israeli-butchery-at-sea-by-gilad-atzmon.html

Cynthia McKinney: Israel's Latest Murder of Humanitarian Activists
http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/05/israels-latest-murder-of-humanitarian-activists/

etc., etc. etc.

[effie]

Mark: You're a lying POS nazi. Piss off.

[Shmarya]

The Rabbinical Centre of Europe has expressed their disgust with the actions taken against Rabbi Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin.

As I noted in my post on this, the RCE is a Chabad front group and does NOT represent the leading rabbis of Europe.