Chabad Rabbinical Front Group: Rubashkin Sentence "Sinister"

The Rabbinical Centre of Europe (RCE) has expressed shock and outrage at the sentencing of Sholom Rubashkin, the former head of Agriprocessors.

The RCE was started by Chabad several years ago to compete with the long established European Orthodox rabbinical group the Conference of European Rabbis, which was founded in 1956.

The CER's president is the Chief Rabbi of France and its associate president is the Chief Rabbi of England, and leading rabbis from across Europe are members. On the other hand, most RCE members are Chabad shluchim (rabbinical representatives).

The CER's founding was widely seen as a Chabad power grab.

European rabbis: Rubashkin sentence 'sinister'

Rabbinical Centre of Europe expressed shock, outrage at sentencing of former chief executive officer and vice president at Agriprocessors to 27 years in prison

Ynetnews

The Rabbinical Centre of Europe (RCE) has expressed shock and outrage at the sentencing of Sholom Rubashkin, former chief executive officer and vice president at the Agriprocessors slaughterhouse and meat packing plant, to 27 years in prison.

Rubashkin was also ordered to pay $27 million in restitution by Chief US District Court Judge Linda R. Reade.

The RCE is an organization dedicated to meeting the religious and spiritual needs of Jewish communities in Europe.

“This is a blatant imbalance of justice,” said Rabbi Yisroel Yaakov Lichtenstein, Head of the Federation of Synagogues Rabbinical Court in London and member Presidium of the Rabbinical Centre of Europe.

“The doctrine of proportionality in sentencing seeks to limit arbitrary and capricious punishment in order to ensure that offenders are punished according to their ‘just desert’, and this is light years away from proportional sentencing.”

The RCE, and many other supporters in the Jewish community, felt that Rubashkin was already being singled out for special and undue attention when there was an attempt to deny bail on the grounds that the defendant could flee to Israel.

“Already at the bail stage we saw an outrageous bias against Rubashkin because he was a religious Jew,” added Rabbi Yitzchak Schochet, rabbi of the Mill Hill Synagogue in London. “This sentence merely compounds our earlier fears and smacks of sinister intent and utterly undermines the very foundations of fair justice for all upon which the United States of America has always taken immense pride.”

The RCE fully supports Rubaskin’s appeal and call upon the American judicial system to save itself from this grave inequity of justice and to allow for common sense and righteousness to prevail.

Comments

[Yochanan Lavie]

The word "sinister" connotes a villain twirling his moustache.

[itchiemayer]

Wasn't the old Underdog nemesis Shalom bar Sinister.....oh right.....Simon bar Sinister.

[Althelion]

“Already at the bail stage we saw an outrageous bias against Rubashkin because he was a religious Jew,”

I thought it was because SMR was left-handed. Or because he is a virgo. Or because he drives a foriegn car. No, no.....that's not it. His bail was set so high because of all the charges against him and the high probability of him being a flight risk.

Think you find SMR amongst the haredim in Israel? Can you imagine an overhead shot of a crowd of rioting haredim with the caption, "Where's Shlomo?"

The above quote also implies that a non-rteligious Jew would fare much better in the American legal system. So, this is not simple anti-semitism since it applies only to "religious Jews."

[i'm from missouri]

Rce should stick to European Jewish problemsnstead of getting involved in criticizing the American justice System

[Choni Davidowitz]

Could there be a connection between the way Chabad have "ignored" the captive Jonathan Pollard, and the sentencing of Rubashkin?
"Sinister"?

[Jason]

RCE clearly has no idea how the US "justice system" works.

“The doctrine of proportionality in sentencing seeks to limit arbitrary and capricious punishment in order to ensure that offenders are punished according to their ‘just desert’, and this is light years away from proportional sentencing.”

There are kids serving years in US prisons for possession of small amounts of marijuana. US courts regularly put criminals to death (along with China, Iran, Iraq, Suda, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, etc.) and only banned putting mentally retarded criminals to death less than 10 years ago. Poor Americans are overwhelmingly more likely to serve significant prison sentences (for the same offenses) than wealthier Americans, and in fact the wealthy hardly ever get convicted in the US.

We have more people, and a higher percentage of our population in prison than any other country in the world (the US has 5% of the world's population but 25% of the world's prison population).

Clearly there is a problem with proportionality in the US system, and with the system as a whole. I can only assume the RCE will work diligently to draw attention to this problem, not just to the case of one individual who was sentenced according to the federal sentencing guidelines for the crime he clearly committed.

[Jason]

RCE clearly has no idea how the US "justice system" works.

“The doctrine of proportionality in sentencing seeks to limit arbitrary and capricious punishment in order to ensure that offenders are punished according to their ‘just desert’, and this is light years away from proportional sentencing.”

There are kids serving years in US prisons for possession of small amounts of marijuana. US courts regularly put criminals to death (along with China, Iran, Iraq, Suda, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, etc.) and only banned putting mentally retarded criminals to death less than 10 years ago. Poor Americans are overwhelmingly more likely to serve significant prison sentences (for the same offenses) than wealthier Americans, and in fact the wealthy hardly ever get convicted in the US.

We have more people, and a higher percentage of our population in prison than any other country in the world (the US has 5% of the world's population but 25% of the world's prison population).

Clearly there is a problem with proportionality in the US system, and with the system as a whole. I can only assume the RCE will work diligently to draw attention to this problem, not just to the case of one individual who was sentenced according to the federal sentencing guidelines for the crime he clearly committed.

[Robert Wisler]

The moronically written article uses the term:
‘just desert’

A desert is a area of land which is parched and usually covered with sand etc. An example is the Sahara Desert in Africa.

A dessert is defined by Wikipedia as:
"A course that typically comes at the end of a meal, usually consisting of sweet food."

[WoolSilkCotton]

'Rabbinical Centre of Europe '
Like anybody gives a shit what they think.

[Barry]

Maybe the movement should look inside at themselves, and their own misguided tenets for an answer.
SMR got what he deserves as a crook, liar, fraudster, and everything else heis, has done, and has not been uncovered as yet.
Let him make full restitution to all agrieved parties, let his sect followers, begin to realize he is a crook, and not empowr him.
Then let them all teach their children that crime does not pay, and you must pay a persoanal penalty called personal responsibility. Let them all begin to do Tushuva, and mayb e SMR will get the message.
Maybe this is Hashems punishment through a criminal court system.

[NotHarold]

Chabad is a sinister attempt to do what Jews for Jesus always wanted.

May HaShem protect us from Chabad brainwashing.

Remember Education Cures Chabad so teach your media friends about the beliefs and practices of chabad.

[Dr Moe]

"May HaShem protect us from Chabad brainwashing."

I guess Hashem does not like you, cause Chabad is growing and growing since after his passing.

[Yisroel Pensack]

"This message has been brought to you by Chabad-Lubavitch...taking the sin out of sinister since 1772."

[Bill]

A desert is a area of land which is parched and usually covered with sand etc. An example is the Sahara Desert in Africa.

A dessert is defined by Wikipedia as:
"A course that typically comes at the end of a meal, usually consisting of sweet food." - Wisler

I love this incisive legal analysis.

Someone get the gentleman a gig on Court TV!

:)

[A E ANDERSON]

sinister=left
dexter=right

[althelion]

dexter is a shaichet

[Dovid Smulovitch]

THICK HEADS! The problem at the bail stage referred to by Schochet is that they labelled a flight risk because of the "Law of Return." That means that every Jew from now on will be deemed a flight risk. That is a dangerous precedent.

[Rabbi Abe]

I am too heavy to fly...

[Jose Gonzalez]

By making the false claim of RCE being a Chabad front, the truth is being discredited: Yiddin in Europe find abhorable the actions committed by the US Federal Government against Rabbi Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin.

In logic, this type of argument - RCE is a Chabad front - is known as " Guilt by association" which leads to a "Ad hominem" fallacy. This form of the argument is as follows:

Source A makes claim P.
Group B also make claim P.
Therefore, source A is a member of group B.

Check the website http://www.rce.eu.com/ you will see that most of the members are not Chabad! Indeed, Chabad is just another group that is associated with the RCE in Europe.

[Shmarya]

By making the false claim of RCE being a Chabad front, the truth is being discredited:

Please.

That "false claim" was largely proven in a JTA investigative report published 5 years ago.

If you'd actually follow the link I provided and read, you'd know that.

[Jose Gonzalez]

That "false claim" was largely proven in a JTA investigative report published 5 years ago.
I read the report, and, they make some wild claims. There is no proof of anything but that Chabad has good relationships with the RCE. You, as usual, twists words and jump to conclusions that benefit your cause.

IDIOT
Ad hominem abusive. Very typical of you.

[Shmarya]

I just love the fact that you refuse to deal with the facts.

[Jose Gonzalez]

I just love the fact that you refuse to deal with the facts.
Yet another ad hominem

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.

Stating that someone refuses to see "facts" is an ad hominem.

Firs of all, the source of the "facts" needs to be a credible one. Second, when a paper is printing two different views in an un-biased manner, and a second party selectively quotes lines out of context that benefit their argument, it makes a feeble argument.

Just screaming that something is a fact doesn't make it a fact. This is the typical argument used by the Catholic church to lynch Jews; consider the case of Rabbi Sholom Mordechai as an example. The Catholic Church using funds supplied by Morris Allen trained illegal immigrants to state "facts" in a court of law. Thanks G-d, the Jury and Judge were able to see through the smoke screen.

[Jose Gonzalez]

... the RCE is a Chabad ...

One of the councils of Antwarp, Belgium is The Israëlitische Gemeente van Antwerpen Shomre Hadass - primarily oriented towards the Modern Orthodox community - that is led by Chief Rabbi David Moshe Lieberman who is a member of the RCE.

[Shmarya]

"I just love the fact that you refuse to deal with the facts."

Yet another ad hominem

No.

You refuse to deal with the facts. The RCE was started by Chabad and is a Chabad front group. I linked to an exposé done 5 years ago by the JTA about this.

My point – clearly and lucidly made – is that you ignored that link in my post, and then ignored it in the comment I left above.

Process that.

[Jose Gonzalez]

I linked to an exposé done 5 years

Please, you only have one article written by an unknown writer. Seems to me that the only thing he is truly proving is that there is is some type of quarrel between two Jewish factions, and that one of them has good relationships with Chabad.

I know that the word exposé brings attention to your blog, but doesn't mean a thing.

Truth be told, many of the members of that group are not Chabad.

[Shmarya]

Seems to me that the only thing he is truly proving is that there is is some type of quarrel between two Jewish factions, and that one of them has good relationships with Chabad.

The one with good "relationships" to Chabad:

1. Was started by Chabadniks.

2. Was staffed by Chabadniks.

3. Most of its members are Chabadniks.

By why quibble over inconvenient truths…

[WoolSilkCotton]

++every Jew from now on will be deemed a flight risk++

Correction: Every Chasidic/Haredi Jew from now on will be deemed a flight risk, because they ARE. Too many cases already of black hat crooks fleeing to Israel.

[EU Rabbi]

Shemarya says about the RCE:
1. Was started by Chabadniks.

So what? the Conference of European Rabbis (CER) started by Litvakes, Is it make them all Litvakes? Since the moment that many other rabbis Joined the CER it became a general organization representing rabbis of all Jewish streams, and so is the Rabbinical Centre of Europe.

2. Was staffed by Chabadniks.

This is a Lie. Most of the staff are not chabadniks: 2 Litvakes, 1 Gerer Chosid, 1 Slonimer Chosid, 1 sefardi, and 2 Chabbadniks...

3. Most of its members are Chabadniks.

Another Lie. You probably miscounted the members of their counsil. Chabad are part of the counsil, not even close to be half of it...

Another important thing that should be stressed: RCE, not like CER, doesn't see any problem with having Chabad part of it. as they doesn't see having Litvaks and others part of the organization. In this is what freeks everyones out (including yourself, Shemarya, and the CER).

[Shmarya]

Please.

On its founding the staff was almost all Chabad and so were the members.

Follow the link in the article.

THe RCE offers incentives for rabbis to join, if you know what I mean, and that led to some non-Chabad rabbis joining.

But that does not change the fact that Chabad started the RCE, marketed it as the sole voice of European rabbis when it had almost no Chabad members, and tried to usurp the CER's position.

[EU Rabbi]

On its founding the staff of the CER were ONLY Litvaks. In this case I guess that Failedmessiah's tomorrow's headline would be: "Litvaks are taking over Europe"...

Give me a break...

Who cares how many chabadniks were part of the staff when they founded it today, while I am presenting to you real up-to-date facts, you are telling me stories of history...

the RCE today is a very powerful and helpful organization, and ALL the European Rabbis are benefiting from that.

Unlike the CER that today is a one person's organization, which even don't have an office.

So in the future when you throw dirt on the RCE take it into your account...

[Shmarya]

Please.

Really, now. Don't you Chabadniks learn how to follow things logically and use reason?

When the CER was formered, there were perhaps TWO Chabad rabbis in Europe.

Chabad had little presence anywhere except England and France, and both were tiny communities.

The man most viewed as the head of Chabad in France was not a Lubavitcher hasid – he was a hasid of another Chabad rebbe.

Anyway, this is a vastly different situation now, when an established organization is being pushed out by Chabad. In 1953, when the CER was formed, the Jewish communities of Europe outside England were not much more than smoke and ashes.

[EU Rabbi]

Just a moment.

So basically what you are saying is that since when the CER was estamblished there were no Chabad rabbis in Europe, they decided to keep on without the Chabad rabbis - also when chabad has now hundreds of rabbis in Europe - and still call themselves the "Conference of European Rabbis" - which is actually, according to you, a BIG LIE...

I, actually, agree with your reasoning, and would even go one step further:

According to you they should be called "the Conference of Europe's Litvak Rabbis"...

According to you, it's a shame that they (the CER...) allow themselves to speak on behalf of Europe's Rabbis and Jews in the press and with European government officials.

According to you, if the Israeli government was estamblished by Polish jews mostly (you should know that dear historian), the Prime minister has always to be a Polish Jew (or at least just Polish...).

You really amazed me with your logic. And all that without even mentioning the inaccurate historic facts you brought up.

The Talmud's saying: שנאה מקלקלת את השורה, was written on people like you... motivated by Hatred.

Your hatred to Chabad twisted your logical skills.

[Shmarya]

Please.

Chabad flooded Russia and Eastern Europe with hundreds of poorly trained 'rabbis,' many of whom could not pass that Rabbinute smicha exam in whole or in part, and then tried to use that demographic advantage to take over Europe.

But the CER would not allow that to happen.

[EU Rabbi]

Really?

Interesting. I know the CER and its rabbis very well, some of them wouldn't even pass a basic exam in Judaism (not to speak on a smicha exam). Some of them wear rings, and still they are ordinary members.

That's very also interesting how you, sitting in the US, had the chance to check on all the chabad rabbis and to conclude that they are not capable of passing the smicha exam.

I have the feeling that the only reason you decided so is because they are chabad, which is very childish i must say. Which is also realtes to what I alreay wrote: YOUR HATRED TO CHABAD TWISTED YOUR LOGICAL SKILLS.

Also interesting how the CER DID accept one chabad rabbi and his representatives (that are "flooding" Kazakhstan) just because they are fighting all other chabad rabbis in the FSU, and DID NOT accept others. That's sounds to me as a real political fraud.

According to you: not that they are only DO NOT represent the rabbis of Europe, but they are also a bellicose bunch of chabad haters (just like yourself).

[Shmarya]

nteresting. I know the CER and its rabbis very well, some of them wouldn't even pass a basic exam in Judaism (not to speak on a smicha exam). Some of them wear rings, and still they are ordinary members.

Spoken like a true Chabadnik.

If you were not a complete ignoramus, you'd know there are actual real poskim who permit wearing rings.

That's very also interesting how you, sitting in the US, had the chance to check on all the chabad rabbis and to conclude that they are not capable of passing the smicha exam.

I have the feeling that the only reason you decided so is because they are chabad, which is very childish i must say. Which is also realtes to what I alreay wrote: YOUR HATRED TO CHABAD TWISTED YOUR LOGICAL SKILLS.

Actually, the Rebbe did this in the late 80s when he said he wanted all bochrim to get smicha.

Chabad promptly lowed its smicha standards.

Also interesting how the CER DID accept one chabad rabbi and his representatives (that are "flooding" Kazakhstan) just because they are fighting all other chabad rabbis in the FSU, and DID NOT accept others. That's sounds to me as a real political fraud.

Lets see, You and your Chabad friends tried to take over Europe. You did so unethically. You got caught.

And now you complain when normal people don't want to deal with you?

Please.

[EU Rabbi]

"If you were not a complete ignoramus, you'd know there are actual real poskim who permit wearing rings."

Here you got caught my friend. So it is not that the CER DOES NOT represent the chabad rabbis of Europe. They also don't represent all the Haredi rabbis of Europe. Taking off chabad and the haredim, it's a tiny little group they got there...

"Actually, the Rebbe did this in the late 80s when he said he wanted all bochrim to get smicha.

Chabad promptly lowed its smicha standards"

That's very funny. You just wrote that chabad rabbis are not capable of passing a rabbanut smicha exam. How did the Lubavitcher's Rebbe ORM initiative on smicha lowered the rabbanut smicha standarts? Lets say you are right, how come the other rabbis that are not affiliated with chabad are doing the same exams and are considered rabbis? Are the chabad rabbis get a special exam in the rabanut?

Again: YOUR HATRED TO CHABAD TWISTED YOUR LOGICAL SKILLS.

The truth is that there are some Litvak rabbis that worth nothing from the rabbinical/halachical aspect (just like some of the chabad rabbis and sefardi rabbis, and many others), and there are many chabad rabbis that have a very high level of halachical knowledge (again, just like some of the Litvak rabbis and many others). Judging a person relying only on his belonging to chabad or to others is AGAIN very childish.

"Lets see, You and your Chabad friends tried to take over Europe. You did so unethically. You got caught.

And now you complain when normal people don't want to deal with you?"

Nonsense. See above.

BTW, in "normal people" you mean Litvaks that hate chabadniks?

[Shmarya]

"If you were not a complete ignoramus, you'd know there are actual real poskim who permit wearing rings."

Here you got caught my friend. So it is not that the CER DOES NOT represent the chabad rabbis of Europe. They also don't represent all the Haredi rabbis of Europe. Taking off chabad and the haredim, it's a tiny little group they got there...

Idiot.

You incorrectly assume only Modern Orthodox poskim allow rings.

You are completely ignorant.

"Actually, the Rebbe did this in the late 80s when he said he wanted all bochrim to get smicha.

Chabad promptly lowed its smicha standards"

That's very funny. You just wrote that chabad rabbis are not capable of passing a rabbanut smicha exam. How did the Lubavitcher's Rebbe ORM initiative on smicha lowered the rabbanut smicha standarts?

Again, try to process.

The Rebbe asked for all bochrim to get smicha.

Chabad LOWERED ITS OWN STANDARDS to make that possible.

The Rabbinute did not change its standards.

The average Chabad shaliach is not learning at a high level or a middle level. Many can't even learn at all.

[EU Rabbi]

"Idiot.
You incorrectly assume only Modern Orthodox poskim allow rings.
You are completely ignorant"

First of all, thanks for your "idiot" - a wonderful way to ignore my arguements.

On one hand, nobody (except yourself probably) cares what poskim allow rings. On the other, everybody knows that NO haredi rabbi will wear a ring, and also everybody knows the fact that in the haredi society wearing a ring is off the limit!

So if, according to you, the Conference of European Rabbis (CER) are not haredi (including different chasidim) and not chabad - Who are they? a bunch of YU style snobbish rabbis?

So, please, spare us your bullshit.

"Again, try to process.
The Rebbe asked for all bochrim to get smicha.
Chabad LOWERED ITS OWN STANDARDS to make that possible.
The Rabbinute did not change its standards.
The average Chabad shaliach is not learning at a high level or a middle level. Many can't even learn at all."

Really? Allow me to understand (believe it or not - I am trying...:-)), basically what you are saying is that if chabad rabbi got smicha not in chabad he is considered a real rabbi? Am I "processing" right?

If so, what you wrote is a nonsense (again): because most of the chabad rabbis in Europe got smicha NOT IN CHABAD - you stupid bastard...

It is probably very exhausting to hate such a big group of people so much!

[Shmarya]

On one hand, nobody (except yourself probably) cares what poskim allow rings. On the other, everybody knows that NO haredi rabbi will wear a ring, and also everybody knows the fact that in the haredi society wearing a ring is off the limit!

First of all, you raised the issue of rings and used to to imply that CER rabbis wear them and are therefore ignorant.

When I pointed out that poskim allow rings, you replied that the CER only represented Modern Orthodox rabbis, because in your limited understanding of halakha, only MO poskim would allow rings.

And now you say that no haredi rabbi wil wear a ring.

You have not met most of the CER's members, and you have no idea who does or who does not wear rings.

Past that, you mistake hasidic stringencies and customs for actual halakha, and you do not know the halakhot involved here.

You actually prove my point. You're a 'rabbi,' you're ignorant, and you're Chabad.

So if, according to you, the Conference of European Rabbis (CER) are not haredi (including different chasidim) and not chabad - Who are they? a bunch of YU style snobbish rabbis?

The CER is made up of actual rabbis – be they haredi, MO, or Sefardi.

what you are saying is that if chabad rabbi got smicha not in chabad he is considered a real rabbi? Am I "processing" right?

What I'm saying is Chabad lowered its standards to get as many bochrim to pass smicha exams as possible.

The Rabbinute smicha test is the gold standard for smicha tests. The vast majority of Chabad 'rabbis' have not and could not pass it.

Chabad 'rabbis' with non-Chabad smicha often get their non-Chabad smicha after first getting Chabad 'smicha.' They go to sympathetic non-Chabad rabbis – often ones with a political need to generate more politically like-minded rabbis. These Chabad 'rabbis' then get an extra 'smicha.'

[EU Rabbi]

The reason I raised the issue of the rings has nothing to do with the halachic aspect of wearing a ring (in which you have not much understanding).

The rings, for sure, show the style of this rabbis that participate at the CER.

NO haredi rabbi will wear a ring (it has nothing to do with halacha so even you should know that), needless to say that NO haredi rabbi will take part in an organization of rabbis that wear rings.

It has nothing to do with MO poskim or haredi poskim. You should check on the haredi rabbis around you and you'll find out that these "hasidic stringencies and customs" are very common ones.

Unlike you, a person motivated by hate, sitting in Saint Paul, Minnesota, writing against everything that has something to do with chabad (just because it is Chabad) without understanding Europe's Jewry, and without even knowing most of the rabbis there (even the CER's ones) - I know most of the CER rabbis. I know who they are and to what stream of judaism they are belonging to. Surprise.

As for the smicha part - bullshit.
Many chabad rabbis in Europe got smicha from the RABANUT. many CER rabbis in Europe haven't got smicha even from these "politically like-minded rabbis" you write about (It is not because they are belonging to the CER, just because they aren't smart enough).

The only difference between us is - that YOU write without even knowing the facts, Just because your hatred to chabad.

YOU just found here another angle to route your hate and frustration. This time, for your much disappointment, not a succesful one.

And I just came here to correct your BULLSHIT with the real facts (that don't seem to bother you at all).

[Shmarya]

NO haredi rabbi will wear a ring (it has nothing to do with halacha so even you should know that), needless to say that NO haredi rabbi will take part in an organization of rabbis that wear rings.

It has nothing to do with MO poskim or haredi poskim. You should check on the haredi rabbis around you and you'll find out that these "hasidic stringencies and customs" are very common ones.

Your ignorance is almost as astounding as your arrogance.

There are Litvish rabbis who wear wedding rings. There are Sefardi haredi rabbis who wear signet rings. There are even a few Moroccan haredi rabbis who wear small earrings.

Past that, most CER rabbis do not wear rings.

As for your smicha rant, are there a few Chabad rabbis with Rabbinute smicha? Sure.

But they are vastly outnumbered by Chabad rabbis with only Chabad 'smicha' or with smicha from other sources.

I watched Rabbi Yeruslovsky give a smicha test. None of the students kne what they were doing. The questions were all oral and were primarily confined to basic Shach and Taz.

Students only had to answer one question each, and their teacher roamed the room and helped the kids answer the questions.

Rabbi Yeruslovsky gave smicha to all of them.

[Rabbi]

"There are Litvish rabbis who wear wedding rings. There are Sefardi haredi rabbis who wear signet rings. There are even a few Moroccan haredi rabbis who wear small earrings."

Earrings... wow... astonishing. And that's what you call "haredi" rabbis. Sometime you come to a point when you ask yourself, either the guy is a c-o-m-p-l-e-t-e IDIOT or it is just that he is pretending to be an idiot. You may choose between these 2 options...

"Past that, most CER rabbis do not wear rings."

Allow me to introduce you some of the CER rabbis (I am sure you've never heard the names before):

Rabbi Michael Schudrich of Warsaw, I qouting from wikipedia:

"Schudrich's graduation from the Jewish Theological Seminary—the flagship rabbinical school for the CONSERVATIVE movement -- and his heading a CONSERVATIVE pulpit in Japan, disqualified him from presiding over conversions under Orthodox standards." (His election as a chief rabbi in Poland gained very strong supported from the CER)

Rabbi Jonathan Sacks of London, a nice guy, typical YU rabbi, again I will quote wikipedia:

"rabbis, most notably Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, accused Sacks of HERESY against the tradition of Orthodox Judaism".

Rabbi Karol Sidon of Prague, here is wikipedia again:

"In 1983 he emigrated to West Germany and CONVERTED TO JUDAISM after studying Jewish studies at the Heidelberg university. He became ordained as a Rabbi after studying for a time in Israel... He is married to Marcela Třebická, and is the father of the actress Magdalena Sidonová".
[I would suggest you to try to arrange him a rabanut basic smicha exam... I am sure he'll be very succesful :-)]

Rabbi Ishak Haleva of Istanbul. very very contovercial, Even among some other rabbis of the CER.

Rabbi Arye Ralbag of NY-Amsterdam (lives in the US and comes to Amsterdam from time to time). Young Israel Rabbi, headed the Triangle K, Which I quote from wikipedia:

"has long been a source of controversy within the Orthodox community, especially with regard to their supervision of Hebrew National products, with many rabbis advising against relying on the organization's supervision."

Want more?

"As for your smicha rant, are there a few Chabad rabbis with Rabbinute smicha? Sure."

Well, it's a start... Shmarya, I am proud of you.

"But they are vastly outnumbered by Chabad rabbis with only Chabad 'smicha' or with smicha from other sources."

That's funny. How do you know? Did you count all of them? I am not speaking here about regular chabad shluchim, but about chabad rabbis of Jewish communities in Europe.

"I watched Rabbi Yeruslovsky give a smicha test. None of the students kne what they were doing. The questions were all oral and were primarily confined to basic Shach and Taz.
Students only had to answer one question each, and their teacher roamed the room and helped the kids answer the questions.
Rabbi Yeruslovsky gave smicha to all of them."

Here is an interesting link:
http://www.cer-online.org/en/index.asp?ID=35&TBL=tblWBNewsImages&FID=ImageID&CAP=caption

I am sure these russian Jewish boys showed some great knowledge in Shach and Taz. Give me a break...

Either they learned from Chabad or chabad learned from them, but one thing is for sure: turns out that today low standart smicha is very fashionable. You can find rabbis with this sort of smicha among all streams of orthodox judaism.

[EU Rabbi]

Check

[EU Rabbi]

Oh.. I forgot to add here Rabbi Chanoch Ehrentreu of London member of CER's standing committee, who the CER appointed as "the Av-Beis-Din of Europe" [belive it or not, according to the CER a-l-l Europe is under his jurisdiction...:-)].

Here is again 2 quotes from wikipedia (you will love the second one):

1. In March 2003, after many years, Ehrentreu successfully negotiated the construction of an eruv in London. Although established with the help of Rabbi Alan Kimche, Rabbi Jeremy Conway and others, its halachic validity was strongly contested by many other prominent London Rabbis.

2. Ehrentreu is a chairman of "Eternal Jewish Family", an organisation founded by Rabbi Leib Tropper to reinforce stringent standards for conversion :-)

[Shmarya]

Earrings... wow... astonishing. And that's what you call "haredi" rabbis. Sometime you come to a point when you ask yourself, either the guy is a c-o-m-p-l-e-t-e IDIOT or it is just that he is pretending to be an idiot. You may choose between these 2 options...

Actually, you are the complete idiot.

You're wholly ignorant of legitimate customs different from your own and from what you commonly see, and you're halakhicly ignorant as well.

As for the controversies surrounding the rabbis you mentioned, none of it is new to me.

But what you are too ignorant to know is that rabbinic controversies are common and go back hundreds of years.

You may recall that in the beginning most rabbis opposed Chabad's outreach to non-Orthodox Jews, and many condemned Chabad in the harshest terms for doing it. (An exception to that condemnation was YU rabbis – the rabbis who you now ridicule because they "wear rings" – who generally supported Chabad's outreach.)

I know of a case in the 1870s where a leading haredi posek had his home stoned by hasidim because he permitted a steam-driven wheat grinder to be used to make flour for matzot. His infant son was almost killed by a brick.

"In 1983 he emigrated to West Germany and CONVERTED TO JUDAISM after studying Jewish studies at the Heidelberg university. He became ordained as a Rabbi after studying for a time in Israel... He is married to Marcela Třebická, and is the father of the actress Magdalena Sidonová".
[I would suggest you to try to arrange him a rabanut basic smicha exam... I am sure he'll be very succesful :-)]

I realize logic is difficult for you, but try to process: being a convert does not disqualify you from being a rabbi or passing the Rabbinute smicha exam.

Many of our greatest sages were converts.

Sidon lived in Israel for a long time, where he studied in yeshiva and got smicha and dayanut.

You are a disgusting bigot and a liar. But you are also Chabad.

The lesson readers should learn (if they have not already learned it) is being a lair and a bigot is no contradiction to being a Chabad 'rabbi.'

[EU Rabbi]

"You're wholly ignorant of legitimate customs different from your own and from what you commonly see, and you're halakhicly ignorant as well."

The customs may be legitimate halachicly, but unfortunately you, stupid pastard, are ignoring my point here: NO haredi rabbi will wear earrings, and it has no relation to halacha. And the same case is with wearing rings.

"As for the controversies surrounding the rabbis you mentioned, none of it is new to me."

Yeah, yeah, sure. you know everything. Halacha, History, controvercies of european rabbis. Stupid Megalomaniac.

I am writing you about a rabbi that is actually conservative, so you are writing me that "rabbinic controversies are common".

I am writing you about a rabbi that is actually a convert and has no basic knowledge
in Judaism, so you are writing me that "Many of our greatest sages were converts".

But when it comes to chabad's rabbis controvercies (which mostly made up by you) your hatred is twisting your logical skills. How about "rabbinic controversies are common"?

"You are a disgusting bigot and a liar. But you are also Chabad."

Definition of a Bigot (from Random House Dictionary):

"a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion."

Wow, coudln't find a better definition to your utter intolerance to chabad and to many other groups you write against in your childish blog.

So who is the real BIGOT here among us? me or the "enlightened" Shmarya Rosenberg...?

BTW, you didn't answer most of my arguements. So it leaves us with the facts:

the RCE is the real European rabbinical organization today (made of real poskim of all steams of judaism. including chabad and haredim), and the CER is just a bunch of controvercial rabbis that blindly hate chabad (just like yourself. except the fact that you are not a rabbi...).

[Shmarya]

The customs may be legitimate halachicly, but unfortunately you, stupid pastard, are ignoring my point here: NO haredi rabbi will wear earrings, and it has no relation to halacha. And the same case is with wearing rings.

Really? So you know with certainty no haredi rabbi will wear a ring?

That's quite amusing – and quite wrong.

"As for the controversies surrounding the rabbis you mentioned, none of it is new to me."

Yeah, yeah, sure. you know everything. Halacha, History, controvercies of european rabbis. Stupid Megalomaniac.

I've reported on many of those controversies in the past so that by definition means I know about them.

I am writing you about a rabbi that is actually conservative, so you are writing me that "rabbinic controversies are common".

I am writing you about a rabbi that is actually a convert and has no basic knowledge
in Judaism, so you are writing me that "Many of our greatest sages were converts".

Actually, you only laughed and noted he is a convert who converted in 1983.

You have brought no proof he is Jewishly ignorant, other than the fact he is a convert. And that is no proof – it is bigotry.

the RCE is the real European rabbinical organization today (made of real poskim of all steams of judaism. including chabad and haredim), and the CER is just a bunch of controvercial rabbis that blindly hate chabad (just like yourself. except the fact that you are not a rabbi...).

The CER has haredi and MO rabbis, Sefardim and Ashkenazim, hasidim and Livaks as members. Most chief rabbis in Western Europe are members.

[EU Rabbi]

It was nice arguing with you. I think I've made my points here, while you are recycling the same prejudice that you have on chabad and making up facts on organizations and places you've never got to know.

Shabbat shalom and regards from Europe.

[EU Rabbi]

Just wanted to add re Karol Sidon the following link:

http://www.bhol.co.il/upload0708/20081028_0251813482_rabbi.jpg

A proof for the fact he is Jewishly ignorant.