Rubashkin Trial Day 4: Afternoon Summary

“When someone gets on the stand and says I don’t remember giving any interviews with anyone ever, obviously there’s some credibility issues.”

Rubashkin trial: Court adjourned
BLOG POST BY JENS KROGSTAD • Des Moines Register

4:34 p.m., Waterloo, Ia. — Court is adjourned for the day.

After the jury left the courtroom, defense attorney F. Montgomery Brown asked the prosecution to turn over all evidence — if it hasn’t already — related to interviews of witnesses by government agents after the immigration raid.

When presented with a written record on cross-examination, most of the witnesses have said they don’t remember any specifics about the interviews. Others said they don’t remember doing any interviews.

“We’re confronted with a road block of amnesia regarding the existence of these interviews,” Brown said.

Black Hawk County District Associate Judge Nathan Callahan said he has no reason to believe the prosecution has withheld any exculpatory evidence (information that will help with Rubashkin’s defense.)

However, he said the defense has successfully attacked the credibility of some of the witnesses, in his opinion.

“When someone gets on the stand and says I don’t remember giving any interviews with anyone ever, obviously there’s some credibility issues,” he said.

2:54 p.m., Waterloo, Ia. — State witness Noe Castillo Ordonez appeared to not know how old he was when a state prosecutor asked his age.

Ordonez always stated the same birthday in December 1990, but told the prosecutor he’s 20 years old, because “I’m starting my 20th year” in 2010.

On a later question he said he turned 18 in 2007, before correcting himself.

“I want to make sure I understand accurately, because I’m confused now. Do you know for a fact what your date of birth is?” said Deputy Iowa Attorney General Thomas H. Miller.

“It’s the 16th of Decemeber, 1990,” he said through an interpreter.

Miller asked him how long he went to school, and if he learned his “addition and subtraction.”

Ordonez said he did, and attended school for five years in Guatemala.

Rubashkin’s attorneys have been suggesting all week that the state’s witnesses don’t know their true ages because they gave so many different birth dates to government officials after the raid.

Ordonez also said he was not hired the first time he applied, because he looked too young. The defense has also been arguing all week that it’s hard for non-Guatemalans to tell the age of young people from that country.

The witnesses have all said they lied about their age out of fear.

Ordonez said he lied because he feared he might spend more time in prison as a minor. However, federal agents did not believe he was over 18, and separated him from the adult detainees, he said.

Ordonez was the first witness all week that has had trouble lining up his stated birthday with his current age.

2:25 p.m., Waterloo, Ia. — Candido Alfredo Marroquin Argueta said he had been hanging chickens at Agriprocessors for three months when the kosher slaughterhouse finally asked him for identification.

Marroquin Argueta started working at the plant in Postville in 2007, when he was 17. He worked from 3 p.m. to 3 a.m.

Like the witness before him, he said he’d load dead chickens in a barrel and move them outside.

When Rubashkin approached his area, workers would say, “Hurry up, here comes Sholom,” he said. However, he only saw Rubashkin at a distance.

On cross-examination, defense attorney Mark Weinhardt noted he was only 6 weeks short of his 18th birthday at the time of the raid.

Assistant Iowa Attorney General Laura Sloan asked Marroquin Argueta to stand up while she showed a picture of him on the day of the raid to the jury.

He was noticeably thinner. She asked if he had lost weight.

“In Guatemala, there’s not enough work or money to buy food that you need,” he said.

1:45 p.m., Waterloo, Ia. — Court is back in session. The next witness will be Candido Alfredo Marroquin Argueta.

I’ve received some questions about what exactly a U-visa is. To receive one, a person must suffer substantial physical or mental abuse, and work with law enforcement in learning more about a crime or in aiding in the prosecution of a crime. They can then work legally in the country for four years while they apply for permanent residence.

The abuse must be as a result of one of these categories: Rape, torture, trafficking, incest, domestic violence, sexual assault, abusive sexual contact, prostitution, sexual exploitation, female genital mutilation, hostage situations, peonage, false imprisonment, involuntary servitude, slave trade, kidnapping, abduction, unlawful criminal restraint, blackmail, extortion, manslaughter, murder, felonious assault, witness tampering, obstruction of justice, perjury or attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit any of the above mentioned crimes.

For more details, go here and here.

Comments

[justice seeker]

SMR has "TEN" children, we've seen that in print a few million times. I saw a courthouse picture of his wife and several children including a 12 year old son, who by the way doesn't look old enough to work on a slaughterhouse floor. I guess that only illegal kids look mature!

[sage]

It's a shame that ALL of the horrible abuses that the children suffered, while working in Agri, can't come out in this trial.

If they did, the sh-t would hit the fan in an overpowering way, and blow right into SMR's face.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Justice Seeker, the Rubashkin Junior Crime Corps have never done a day of physical work or physical exercise in their lives, nor will they ever. Hence, their forever youthful appearance.

[sage]

+++ "Rubashkin Junior Crime Corps" +++

Hi WSC,

You've just coined a new moniker for the site!! [RJCC]

Congradulations!!!

[Dr. Moe]

Justice,

It was already established by the testimony from the witness that even they cannot tell the ages of other guatmalans, infact there was testimony that some were turned away cause they did look to young.

So far we are hearing how father after father, family after family knew the real ages of thier "loved ones" yest they forged documents and had their kids lie about their tru ages.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Thanks, Sage, although RJCC sounds like a place to play basketball on a Thursday night!

[justice seeker]

Moe: You are a true Rubashkin. Read the testimony...14 year old kids that weighed under a hundred pounds, who in some cases were turned down until they got the "right ID". The parents were desparate, ok indict them for being desparate. SMR was an abuser of both parents and kids. Rubashkin paid them $5.00 an hour under typical starting wages, which he got away with because they were desparate and he knew it. He owned the real estate which he rented to them at over market costs, and his folks fixed them up with the illegal documents. Hell it wouldn't suprise me if he was in business with the coyotes. I can look at SMR's son and see he is not 18, I guess the Rubashkins don't have that ability. It must be tougher with the brownskin kids. Not being able to see the difference between desparation, and pure unadulterated evil, your comments are no longer entertaining just a stench in the nostrils of honorable men.

[sage]

Hi JS,

You have raised some fascinating points.

In the testimony, we keep hearing of various people on the street, providing false ID's for Agri employment.

It wouldn't surprise me, as well, if these were hired by the RCF, who took a cut in all of the transactions.

[Dr Moe]

Justice Abuser,

I have nothing to do with Rabbi Morris Allen or the Rubashkin Family, Everyone on this blog knows already that I am impartial in this case, I write what I observe, also if Agri did not Hire that kid 14 years old with the false documents the family would have complained to Higher Authorities that Agri was not hiring because of discriminating reasons.

You should wash your hands before you use your keyboard, cause it stinks so hard from your lies.

Sage,
you seem to know more then the DA, ICE and the Fed's and your still on your computer, if you know so much just go to the judge and tell him what you know, help out the DA!

[justice seeker]

Dear Moe: I can spot a 7th grader, and I can spot a Rubashkin. Impartial you aren't.

On another point none of the witness's were trained. I loved the 30 minute video in english for the spanish speakers. Witness's were consistent in their testimony that if they missed three days works with sickness or injury they were fired. I bet the Jewish employees didn't have that same sick leave policy, any takers? Another way to discriminate against the brownskins and their children.

Moe you are excluded from taking this bet. Rubashkin money is to dirty for my taste.

[state of disgust]

Dr. Moe said:
...It was already established by the testimony from the witness that even they cannot tell the ages of other guatmalans,..."

You have made this and similar arguments before. Basically, you seem to be saying they all look alike. Now, where have I heard that kind of remark before. Possibly from White Supremacists referring to blacks ... and to Jews.
In fact I heard the Defense argue that all frum Jews with beards working at Agri looked like one another. How's that for a defense. When your lawyer makes racists stereotypical statements about his client - and no one says a word. Yes sir, SMR has a real hot defense team (standing behind him and pushing him into the line of fire). Real class.

[Bassy The Haredi Slayer]

Dr Moo,

I am not sure why you are bringing up rabbi Allen, he is not part of the conversation. You repeat again the silly idea that if Rubashkin refuses to hire them they will complain to the government that Rubashkin did not hire them for for discriminating reason.

Never heard about people suing someone because they were got rejected on a job interview.

I think you should go back and study the Tanya about the evils of masturbation. Good ideas the sicko from Liadi had.

[Dr Moe]

State,

Thank you bringing up an excellent point, you see many people who have not grown up or lived in a Hasidic Neighborhood when they come visit a Hasidim neighborhood they see a guy with a long beard and all of the sudden they think they guy is like 35 years old but later they find out that same guy is only 16 years old, so even in Jewish culture teens can be deceived to look like Adults.

This is real, similar to Latin people many Latin folks can be 15 and look like they are 18.

Justice abuser,

You cannot tell the difference between a 15 year old Latino and an 18 year old Latino.

I have been to Central and south America many times I know what I am talking about, also the central American countries the closer they are to the border of the Unites the more poorer they are in fact many of these kids in their villages they finish school at around grade 7 or 8 and start working that is how it, is so for a mom to send her 15 year old son or daughter to work they think its normal again I know this is against the law in the united States but in Guatemala this is very normal especially on the mountain Villages.

Bassy the slayer,

The reason why I bring Rabbi Morris Allen is cause his followers come here to spew their hate for Sholom Rubashkin and I happen to be impartial I do not Support sholom Rubashkina and I do not Support Rabbi Morris Allen.

[ber]

what has been established so far is that the witnesses have NO credibility whatsoever!!!

(except for shmarya and his followers on this blog, who would believe these shgotzim in an instant over Rubashkin. you are the same as these shgotzim. you both have one goal. to see a Yid suffer.)

[Shmarya]

shgotzim means vermin. And that should tell you enough about Ber.

[OMG]

Dr. MOE, not only are your bias to the RCF, but you are lacking critical thinking ability, the fact is that the only time people use I didn’t know the age defense, is didn’t know that she was so young, she really looked fully develop definitely at least 20 years old, so the argument goes this way, well why should I asked for an ID, when she looks fully developed? Now your bias is so blinding that your argument goes this way. Well all these Latino’s look so young so why should I inquire and double check to make sure they are not children. Even after getting 100’s of no match letters, they all look so young.

Do you understand that your argument is only helping the prosecution? That even if they have an ID Agri should have checked again and again especially if they received no match letters.
Thank you

[Getthefactsman]

I think the defense is winning this case so far and they havent even called a witness yet. This trial isnt about illegal immigration. This trial is about proving that Sholom intently hired minors and that he knew 100 percent that the employee was a minor. The Illegals dont even know there own age (per testimony) how in the hell was Sholom supposed to know??? This will be a hard conviction.

[state of disgust]

Getthefactsman:
When the defense has to resort to using stereotypes of Jews to defend SMR while cross-examining witnesses, they have already lost.
And so has the Jewish People.

[sage]

Hi Getthefactsman,

Not all of the evidence is in.

The state, IHMO, would not have gone to all of the effort and expense, if it could not prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that SMR is guilty of knowing that minors were being employed.

[Getthefactsman]

Sage
State wouldnt go to all the "expense" if it could not prove? Really... You dont think the state of Iowa has lost a case??? These illegals are winning the case for Sholom even without his witnesses. The State's witnesses have lost credibility. They have "convienently forgotten" evidence presented by defense - They have been caught lieing about their ages while on stand. The Judge even said that....

[ber]

sage,

are you even jewish?

[ber]

state of disgust,

you are a shaigetz like all the others.

The Jewish People don't need or care about your opinion of them.

[ber]

shmarya,

being that you gave been excommunicated by your community, doesn't say much about your character!