Rabbi Bans Women From Holding Public Office

"The first problem is giving women authority, and being a secretary means having authority The second problem is mixing men and women. Secretary meetings are held at night and sometimes end very late. It is not proper to be in mixed company in such situations.…Within the family certain debates are held and when opinions are united the husband presents the family's opinion. This is the proper way to prevent a situation in which the woman votes one way and her husband votes another."

Rabbi bans women from public office

Chief rabbi of Elon Moreh says women cannot have 'authority', advises to be heard through husband

Shmulik Grossman • Ynet

Rabbi Elyakim Levanon, chief rabbi of the Elon Moreh settlement in Samaria, has prohibited female residents from running for the office of community secretary.

The elections for the position are scheduled for Wednesday, but so far not a single woman of the 750 eligible adult residents of the settlement has announced candidacy.
 
One woman, who remains anonymous, sent a letter to Rabbi Levanon asking whether she could run for the position. "I am a young woman and I think I have the desire and energy to do things. I also believe there is a benefit to making a woman secretary, because it's not right for men to be the only ones deciding how to run the community," she wrote to the rabbi, asking his opinion.

But in his weekly column in the settlement's newspaper Levanon wrote that the position of secretary was not fit for a woman, according to the teachings of the Rav Kook. He said women could participate in various councils, but not as secretaries.

"The first problem is giving women authority, and being a secretary means having authority," he wrote. "The second problem is mixing men and women. Secretary meetings are held at night and sometimes end very late. It is not proper to be in mixed company in such situations."

The rabbi added that women who desired to affect public opinion should do so through their husbands. "Within the family certain debates are held and when opinions are united the husband presents the family's opinion," he wrote.

"This is the proper way to prevent a situation in which the woman votes one way and her husband votes another."

But many residents of Elon Moreh and its surroundings objected to the rabbi's decision. Daniela Weiss, former council head of the settlement of Kedumim, said women had once been prophets and held distinguished roles in Jewish society.

"It is in times of trial that women have proven themselves capable of standing up and getting through," she said.

Nurit Tsur, who heads the Israel Women's Lobby, said the rabbi's decision was anti-democratic and medieval. "Its place is in a halachic state and not a democratic one," she said.

"When things like this are taken out of the sphere of mere talk and made into a clear order for the Jewish female public in Israel, I expect leaders of the religious public to decry them and clarify that women's place in local and national political discussion is necessary and vital," Tsur said.

Comments

[Mr. Apikoros]

When it comes to Sarah Palin, I agree with the rabbi.

[Maskil]

Nurit Tsur, who heads the Israel Women's Lobby, said the rabbi's decision was anti-democratic and medieval. "Its place is in a halachic state and not a democratic one," she said.

Wow, she's really not paying attention. The rabbi's "decision" was not a State-legal opinion but rather a halachic opinion published in a section for answers to questions in halachah. The democratic counil still allows women to run for office of secretary and the rabbi is not authorized to nor has he expressed interest in changing that.

[Alter Kocker]

Time for the rabbi's wife to amputate his dick.

[Dr. Dave]

When it comes to Sarah Palin, I agree with the rabbi.

And when it comes to Nancy Pelosi?

Or are we just starting ad hominem attacks on conservatives again?

[Dr. Dave]

Besides the obvious sexism of the statement, of course!

[yaacov]

Correct Makil. Maybe Ms Tsur(is) should learn how to read.

[Dr. Dave]

Time for the rabbi's wife to amputate his dick.

And toss it out of a car window?

[Yosef ben Matitya]

not so with rabbi ovadiah yosef that expressed himself as having no objection to a woman prime minister.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

Nurit Tsur, who heads the Israel Women's Lobby, said the rabbi's decision was anti-democratic and medieval. "Its place is in a halachic state and not a democratic one," she said.

ms tzur should look at the bright side.
if the husband can't work, the wife can't hold a decent job, they will reach a situation of oblivion.

[Mr. Apikoros]

I don't like Pelosi any better than Palin. Just because I oppose the teabaggers doesn't make me a commie, any more than my dislike of pinko commie-liberals like Pelosi, Boxer, and Reid makes me a far rightwinger.

I am of the radical middle.

[Alter Kocker]

Rabbi Elyakim Levanon:
You are a misogynist, with a mindset more appropos to the 19th century. Women, if you haven't yet heard are equal in every way shape or form. Put it this way: If an Israeli woman can pick up a rifle and stand a post, she certainly has every right to hold public office...oh wait, you and your kind would not even pick up a rifle and stand a post. I guess that you and your kind should not hold any public office.

[A. Nuran]

Mr. A, what planet are you from?
Pelosi, Reid and Boxer aren't even vaguely "commie" or "liberal". Their economic policies are right in line with the Republicans down to defending Wall Street, suppressing wages, deregulating everything in sight and passing tax cuts for the rich. Only someone who's been guzzling a steady diet of the Beck/Limbaugh/Hannity/tea bagger Kool Aid could put them to the left of "Moderate Republican".

[Maskil]

AK,

Levanon and his kind can and do hold rifles at their posts. Women, and I have seen this, have a harder time holding the larger machine guns. The army does not put them in full combat units - a decision of the Hilonim, not the Datim or Haredim.

And if you still think women are equal in every wa shape or form, then you haven't been using the Internet as it seems to have been intended. I fear to ponder about your sexual orientation, just don't swing in my direction please.

[Catcher50]

Among other things, I'm currently reading a novel by Anne Perry, about 19th century England. She does a wonderful job of describing the relationship of men and women in that place, at that time. My reaction is that the situation was a crime against people (both men and women) and that I was appalled that such attitudes towards women could exist in a, theoretically, advanced society and that, thank God, we've gotten beyond that nonsense.

Then I read this article.

[Alter Kocker]

Maskil:
You obviously are one of the misogynist many following the Chareidi minority in Israel.

I am fortunate to be the husband and father of some extremely intelligent, gifted and talented women. I decry anyone who would deny them full opportunity to pursue a position of authority or public office.

And PS. I have a relative, beautiful small girl, no more than 5 ft tall, who carries a machine gun for the state of Israel, and has put her life on the line for our people. I would like to see you deny her opportunities to her face. You might not survive the encounter.

[rabbidw]

I want to ban all Rabbis from serving in public office, First of all they face a conflict of interest in that the best thing to do for the body that elected them may create a problem for them with a higher authority. They are completely incapable of serving the people.
Second, they face the constant challenge of staying away from the appearance of bribery, as they vote appropriations for their own institutions. How can they do that and not be accused of solicting bribes?

[yudel]

i find this news very illuminating and points directly at the mistakes we make when trying to figure out what others did in the past.

here Rav Kook is quoted to define his ruling. But he as so many do did not ask the right question when looking up what Rav Kook stated. He did not look and wonder and ask...what was going on in Rav Kook's life that he made this decision. Specifically what was going down around him that he made his decision.

That is always the question to ask and seek . Sadly today we look for the sentence written not the reasons behind the sentences and the times when the sentences were written.

We look to find a sentence to support our thinking and deflect all reasoning. We seek proof text to support what we do not seeking text to figure out what we might do now.

They often are not at all the same. Funny is it not that we look for sentences to support rulings and do not look at the situation around the person who wrote the ruling that led them to make a ruling.

That is what is called today..tyranny of the text.

[Radical Feminist]

The older I get the more I hate religion. I use to be observant but, thanks goodness I grew up and got over it.

[Radical Feminist]

AK
You sound like a catch!

[Maskil]

AK,

And PS. I have a relative, beautiful small girl, no more than 5 ft tall, who carries a machine gun for the state of Israel, and has put her life on the line for our people. I would like to see you deny her opportunities to her face. You might not survive the encounter.

Yes, but how often does your 5 ft relative have to rest the machine gun on some surface to prevent lingering fatigue in her arms and shoulders? I've seen them doing it all over the country. Some of these girls can be carried in one arm by the average male soldier more easily than the girls themselves carry their weapons. Each example you bring to defy the statistics only stands to prove the rule. Sure, I've seen a couple girls who could kick my ass without working up a sweat, and that's the kind of muscle I want watching the my back and that of the Jewish State before force-drafting a bunch of girly-men (which is why the army is still dilly dallying on this matter and the girly-men are not getting drafted).

But let's get to the main point: The rabbi in the article is National Religious, not Haredi. He served in the military and never missed reserve duty, and expects the same from others. He did not "deny" anyone "opportunity to pursue a position of authority or public office," but simply answered the question posed to him regarding the halachic position on the matter. He did not even give his own opinion (he is an independent thinker, and they are far and few), which may have been very different, but deferred to relating the opinion of Rav Kook. Since the question was posited by a member of the National Religious public in a National Religious forum, he felt his duty to respond not with his own position but the existing teachings of Rav Kook (as applied to this specific office) who is considered the father of the NR community. He still supports the democratic nature of this country and the full right of the woman to exercise her free will to heed or ignore the halachah, and he considers this preferable to a scenario where her free will is stunted by religious coercion.

Don't callously throw around words like misogynist and Haredi, neither of which play any role in this matter. Remember, it is the rank and file military that still prevents women from serving in combat units, and not because of political pressure from Haredim but due to the classification that girls cannot pass the physical requirements to serve in these units. This misogyny is supported in the highest ranking Hiloni members of the military and the government, and has not been challenged by the secular courts.

[Paul]

This issue I believe goes to the heart of the position of the rabbi within a community and specifically within a Religious-Zionist one. This community has changed to such a degree in recent years that these rabbis have the standing in their own yishuvim as if they were chassidic rebbes. The residents stop using their own independent thought processes and more worrying still, the rabbi ceases to understand the society around him and uses ivory tower halachah unrelated to people's real lives.
It may be true to say that he is only offering a purely halachik opinion to a question asked of him as a rabbi but such an answer should have been given to the woman who brought the question. Once he publishes it in the yishuv's newsletter, it becomes a statement of dogma and of critique of modern democratic values. We have sleep-walked into a Religious-zionism which is today - in its value system - almost identical to the hareidi world view. They live in their own ghettos stuck on mountain tops and don't even need to relate to the values of a wider society. Kippot srugot but entirely hareidi in mindset. It is also worth examining how this came about and I would argue that basing their whole dogma on settlement and ignoring basic human rights for the surrounding population has led them to abandon any form whatsoever of liberal world view.

[Michael Makovi]

Nurit Tsur has shot herself in the foot by positing a contradiction between Judaism and democracy. Not only has she jettisoned her own chances for success, judging only by utility, but moreover, she is simply false from the perspective of secular historical scholarship. See my response at michaelmakovi DOT blogspot DOT com/2010/05/rabbi-elyakim-levanon-of-elon-moreh.html

[alternative childcare]

Say what you want, Mr A had the funniest comment on this thread. I heartily approve.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/the-palin-brand/?ref=opinion&ref=opinion

[Mr. Apikoros]

Nuran, I'm from planet Earth. You're from planet Choamsky.

[Maskil]

A female Border Guard officer was attacked by an Arab teen carrying a sword in east Jerusalem, who stole her weapon.

Police officers nearby apprehended the teen, after which his friends began to pelt them with stones, but injured only each other.

The officer noticed the teen walking on Salah a-Din Street and asked him what he was doing with a sword. In response the teen attacked her, tried to kick her, and made off with her rifle.

And that's the kind of muscle I don't want watching my back or that of the Jewish State...

[Don't worry AK, I doubt it could be your relative in this story. If it had been, based on your description, the youth would have left the weapon and made off with the soldier.]

[Dovit]

You seem to forget that Gilad Shalit was overpowered and kidnapped, Maskil, and he's male. So what's your point again?