Beit Din Ruling Meant To Block Testimony In Haredi Molester's Criminal Trial

The ruling forbids a victim of sex abuse from testifying against his rabbi abuser.

The beit din's ruling was cited in the Baruch Lebovitz trial. Please click to enlarge:

 

A rough translation:

PSAK DIN - JUDGEMENT

In the matter of the dispute-matter between the sides, that is Mr. ____ Side A the plaintiff, and between Rabbi Berl Ashkenazy shlit”a (should merit to long good years??) the defendant, side B, after the (sides) disputants agreed to heed the judgment of the dayan signed below, and after listening to the arguments and counter arguments of both sides, and after sorting out the facts and the halacha (Jewish law) ,the following ruling went out.

A. There is no obligation from side B to side A.

B. In contrast to this, it is forbidden for the young man (bochur) _____ to inform on side B (Rabbi Ashkenazy) to the courts (because) [that] he (talked on his heart) [tried to persuade him] that he should leave the courts, which is according to their laws a grave crime, and there is an obligation on side A to do whatever is in his ability to deter the above mentioned young man from this (mesirah) [informing].

C. Side B accepted on himself of his free will that he is prepared to help the above mentioned young man with whatever is in his ability to encourage him to go in good ways, however he will begin with him after the above mentioned young man will remove himself altogether from the courts of the goyim also in other matters.

And there are no more arguments and counter arguments between the sides, only peace to us and to all Israel.

And on this I applied my signature in the 9^th day of Shevat 5769

Says Israel Meir Makovetzky, Dayan

Lebovitz is due to be sentenced Erev Pesach. Polite letters to the judge are welcome. Details here.

Comments

[Shlomo]

why do they use the word צדק "righteous" after Beth Din? I don't think that is the appropriate description

[HaNavon]

this is actually obstruction of justice, and punishable by several years in prison for each of the members of the beis din.
please, you must call this in to the FBI immediately, if you do not, knowing about this crime of obstruction of justice is in fact, obstruction of justice!
WE MUST TURN IN THE RABBIS FROM THE BEIS DIN

[Bill]

Shmarya, wrong translation.

The ruling forbids the young man from disclosing to the courts that Asheknazi told the young man to "leave the courts."

The "crime" referred to in this ruling is the crime of obstruction of justice, not pedophelia.

Either way, this is a bombshell.

[Bill]

HaNavon,

It is a halachic ruling that is probably (but unfortunately) protected by the first amendment.

[HaNavon]

bill, that is not true, this is the classic case of obstruction of justice and witness tampering, which i believe is a federal crime that comes with a 10 year maximum.
this case is actually uncanny in its similarity to several cases of obstruction of justice and racketeering involving the catholic church.
here's just one
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_n21_v110/ai_13202407/

[Pessie Gelb]

How will this fake phony fraud imitation tzadik be able to face the people who he has been fooling all these years that he is a tzadik? If he stays in jail he wont have to face the oilam and explain to them/us that he was only fooling us into thinking that he was a tzadik. If he stays in jail he will never have to admit to us that he is gay. If he ever gets out of jail alive he will have a lot of explaining to do regarding how he was able to fool us into thinking that he was a tzadik and completely free of sin. The embarassment will probably be too much for this baal gaavo to bear. Maybe it would be easier for him to remain in jail for the rest of his life especially since the penalty according to jewish law for what he did is death by stoning.

[Pessie Gelb]

This homo is not proud of his being gay. He is proud of his wife and 5 children and 20 grandchildren and ashamed of his being a fagot as he should be. The fact that he got married when he was 18 and has only 5 children shows that he was probably not so attracted to his wife as most frum couples who get married at 18 have a lot more than 5 children.

[Pessie Gelb]

These homos have to be exposed for what they really are which is homosexuals. It is time for us to stop calling them fancy titles like molester and pedophile.
Lebowitz is going to jail for 32 years because he refuses to admit to doing what he did because if he were to admit to having done what he did he would have to admit to being gay and he is too proud of his wife, children, and grandchildren and illustrios rebbeshe ancestors and brother to admit that he is gay.
There is no such thing as gay pride by frume yiden.

[Pessie Gelb]

Homosexuals cant even be counted in a minyan. A minyan requires 10 tzadikim. A tzadik is a man who is shoimer eis habris. A homosexual is the exact opposite of a man who is shoimer eis habris. Avruham Uvini when he begged hashaim yisbureich to save the city of sdoim asked hashaim yisbureich to save the city of sdoim for the sake of 10 tzadikim (men who did not do mishkav zucher), but 10 tzadikim could not be found in sdoim so hashaim yisbureich destroyed sdoim.
Please Hashaim, save our communities from being destroyed like you destroyed sdoim and teach us how we can be mkayem the groise mitzvo of iviartu haru mikirbechu. haru is the homosexuals who molest and rape our boys and cause them to leave yidishkait and live like goyim instead of like yiden. Any homosexual who molests or rapes a boy is responsible for all of that boys sins for the rest of their lives and the molester will never get out of gehenom.

[HaNavon]

pessie, well its not true that a minyan needs ten 'tzaddikim', you can have rashaim in a minyan.
however, i will tell you that the very reason for the homosexuality and pedophilia in the frum world (homosexuals are usually not pedophiles at all, pedophiles have a completely different sickness)
is because of the strictness placed upon sexuality by the leaders of the frum world! they're actually doing this to themselves.
the fact that we as a culture have entered into the age of the sexual revolution is inescapable, and so it must be embraced.
do you know how many women in the frum world have never experienced a sexual climax? they learn how to be an 'aidel maidel' in beis yaakov and seminary, they're out of touch with their own sexuality, they get married to men who themselves are totally out of touch with their own sexuality, which, if that alone hasn't caused their psyche to have a meltdown, they get married and dont have the proper sexual experiences with their wives because their wives are so out of touch with their and their husbands' sexuality, that the men wind up touching little boys or being homosexual, and the women wind up sleeping with other men, and the entire society breaks down!
the navi yechezkel (ezekiel) 23:20 says "she has gone after her lovers, who's flesh was like that of donkeys and whos emission was like that of the horse" this is the castigation of the jewish people for not giving their women what they need, which was the cause of their women having to go out searching for someone who could satisfy them, i.e. the flesh of a donkey.
it is this vicious cycle of sexual repression within orthodoxy that causes all of these problems! this isn't hashem doing it to us, this isn't the fault of the non jews, it is the fault of the 'gedolim'!
don't you find it strange that the conservative, conservadox, modern orthodox have a significantly lower rate of these problems? the reason is because they're NORMAL! they go out with girls when their young, and ok, they kiss, big deal! and even if they wind up having premarital sex with their JEWISH girlfriends and boyfriends, they wind up normal.
i personally asked an open minded, out of the box rav what he thought about this very issue, years ago, and he said "human sexuality is like a balloon, if you squeeze one side too hard, the other side gets so big that it pops" and then he told me that if he were in charge of the frum world he would allow boys and girls to date before marriage, even though he knows that some of them would have premarital sex, it would be better in the long run because they wouldn't wind up to be pedophiles, homosexuals, and adulterers.

[Luis Fernando Lopez]

one of the signatories Pinchus Rabinovitz was the av beis din of Trooper kangaroo beis din, he converted whoever Troppder told him to convert and revoked conversions Tropper told him to do so. He was making good money working being Tropper's dog.

I think there was something to do with sex escapes which made them go different ways.

[jj]

another typical hungarian chassidish pedophile fag scumbag pervert.

the list just keeps growing.

[Abracadabra]

You KNOW that there will be 100 people sending in letters telling the judge what a wonderful ba'al tzedakah he is, with a fine, upstanding character, and asking the judge for leniency in the sentence!

Let's COUNTERACT all that by writing in to the judge and asking that Lebovits be sentenced to the max.

The sentencing hearing is on March 29th so we have to do this quickly. Write this week to:

The Honorable Patrica M. Di Mango
Supreme Court, Kings County
320 Jay Street
Brooklyn, NY 11201

Include on the top of the letter:
"Re: Sentencing of Baruch Lebovits"
and include the date, your full name, address, and a handwritten signature.

And remember to make the letter polite so that the judge will pay attention to it.

Also, our writing letters will maybe in some small way counteract the chillul Hashem of all those frum people and their letters coming out in support of this piece of drek.

C'mon everyone - let's ask the judge to put this guy away for the max!

[Pessie Gelb]

Hanavon is partially right about sexual repression in frum communities in that homosexuality is so repressed that men with homosexual desires end up molesting and raping innocent children in order to fullfill their sexual desires even though they have no pedophile desires and probably would enjoy homosexual affairs more if they would have their homosexual affairs with consenting adults.

[Pessie Gelb]

Lebowitz's homosexuality can possibly be blamed on a factor that people who have studied homosexuality say causes homosexuality. Lebowitz's father, Rabbi Burich Yehida Lebowitz died before Burich Mordechai was born and Burich Mordechai was raised without a father. It is said that boys who dont have close relationships with their fathers end up becoming homosexual but we shouldnt have rachmunes on him. We should and must have rachmunes on their victims.

[soso]

It's a bit simplistic to blame pedophilia on repressing homosexuality or sexuality in general.

The truth is that a small number of people with such tendencies exist in every culture and they take advantage of the structures of the culture.

In a repressive culture, they take advantage of the power gap between them and their victims.

In an open culture, they take advantage of the openness of the culture (and the power gap).

It also seems to be a general phenomenon that people lend more credibilty to victims when perpetrators are from the "adverse" culture.

Frum Jews will immediately believe that abuse took place in the hippie-movement, but will deny that a "holy rebbe" could be a pedophile.
Vice-versa, adepts of the hippie culture tend to deny abuses linked to "sexual liberation", while they love to point fingers at clergy abuse.

[Abracadabra]

Regarding the Dayan's Name - Makovetzky:

Here's his advertisement:

Call Dayan Mak-ovek-tzky today! He can "Mak-ovek" any problem you have with a simple Psak Din and a stamp from the Beis Din Tzedek!

LOL.

[LEBOWITS HUNTER]

IT IS IRONIC THAT IF NOT FOR THIS WITTNES LEIBOWITS WOULD HAVE WALKED

[harold]

please, you must call this in to the FBI immediately, if you do not, knowing about this crime of obstruction of justice is in fact, obstruction of justice!

Nu, so I am curious just what did the FBI tell you when you called?

[SH]

Someone could always send a copy of the Beth Din's letter to the courts, now it is public no one would know who sent it.

[Joey]

Shmaraya, You should mail that to the judge asap

[critical_minyan]

in my humble opinion, when the old testament banned "homosexuality" it was not banning consensual male on male sexual interaction. It was vague. It said, "you shouldn't have sex with a man the way you would have sex with a woman".
My interpretation of that is, in the ancient times, women had no rights, were considered like chattel or property. Sex between a man and a woman was between two people with unequal power and rights. By the same token, what is banned by the torah, is sex between a man and a boy, or a teacher and a student, anything non-consensual due to power imbalances.
That is my dvar torah of the day.

[shmulki]

critical_minyan
i agree with youre thinking i was molested in the mikva at age 10 by non other then our shohent in the town i used to live and i came to similar conclusion he did to me because of the reason you write a power imbalance to show me he is untouchable no one can do anything to him he is like a g-d and i am powerless against him this happened over 50 years ago

[Althelion]

Pessie, there is a huge difference between someone who is gay and someone who is a pedophile.

Critical Minyan, your power imbalance theory is very insightful in the case of homosexuality as well as a whole host of other halachic and/or customarial behaviors in the frum communities.

The beit din is a farce. It reminds me of the role of the royal family in England - a holdover from another time and place. Most beit dins are filled with men via the yichus process (read nepotism). Their appointments were not made based on any criteria of merit except who they're related to and how old they are.

[harold]

Shmaraya, You should mail that to the judge asap

Isn't this the job of the prosecution?

[Joey]

Harold, I hope that every letter to the judge from the public will add one day for Mr Lebovits with bubba in prison. Shmulki, I'm sorry for what you went thru. I know that half of the males inthe charedi community have a mikvah story. I have also come to the conclusion that Pessie Gelb must be PR from David Niedermn's office. You cannot really be that dumb of a cu.t

[OMG]

Pessie Gelb is definitely not a plant, unfortunately, she is imbalanced, her way of thinking probably caused her personal relationship to suffer, is that the reason she lost custody of her child, or the opposite because she lost custody she went off the deep end, but one thing is for sure you cannot reason with her, I tried to no avail.

[Abracadabra]

Shmulki - I am sorry for what you went through. I wish you could have shown him a thing or two after you were bigger and stronger, but most people who were molested at a young age understandably have their spirits broken by the predators.

[Abracadabra]

Critical Minyan - that is an excellent insight. I never thought of that before. Very interesting.

[Abracadabra]

Did you write a letter yet?

There will be 200 people sending in letters to the judge asking for leniency for Lebovits, saying what a wonderful ba'al tzedakah he is, with a fine, upstanding character, and asking the judge for leniency in the sentence!

Let's COUNTERACT all that by writing in to the judge and asking that Lebovits be sentenced to the max.

The sentencing hearing is on March 29th so there's not much time. Write this week to:

The Honorable Patrica M. Di Mango
Supreme Court, Kings County
320 Jay Street
Brooklyn, NY 11201

Include on the top of the letter: "Re: Sentencing of Baruch Lebovits"
Include the date, your full name, address, and a handwritten signature.

And remember to make the letter polite so that the judge will pay attention to it.

C'mon everyone - let's ask the judge to put this guy away for the max!

[critical minyan]

thanks to everyone who agreed with my dvar torah. It nice because it allows us to reconcile our belief that homosexuality in consensual situations is harmless, while demonizing a much graver misdeed, taking sexual advantage of the youth, powerless women and people without choices.

[mechl]

save your postage stamps

the psak was in the hands of the judge all along

[OMG]

Critical Minyan; very illuminating, something to ponder.
Thnak you

[Pessie Gelb]

Critical Minyan:
Are you saying that men should make sure that men should have their sexual relationships with other men instead of have their sexual relationships with women because when a man has a sexual relationship with a man he is having a sexual relationship with his equal and when a man has a sexual relationship with a woman he is having a sexual relationship with somebody who is inferior to him, an act the you consider to be immoral because you consider all sexual relationships between superiors and inferiors to be immoral? What are us heterosexual women supposed to do? Become lesbians in order to have sex with our equals instead of our superiors? What if we dont want to be lesbians? Do we have to be celebate in order to avoid having sex with our superiors? Maybe we should instead show the world whos boss and start raping men in order to show the world that women are superior to men?
Your new liberal morality stinks and is an abomination just like for a man to have sex to a male instead with a woman is an abomination.

[Pessie Gelb]

Ms Critical Minyan:
Are you a lesbian?

[Pessie Gelb]

Why is it that whenever anybody says anything radically charaidi on this blog they accuse him of being mentally ill and off his meds?

[Pessie Gelb]

Even if certain reshuim can be counted in a minyan such as thieves and maybe even people who dont keep shabos, it is required to be counted in a minyan that one must be a male over the age of 13 who does not engage in homosexual affairs.

[mechl]

To all the Gaonim in this thread, haNavon, Pessie, et al.

It is interesting how you advocate being matir issurei deOraysa in one fell swoop, because there is a miniscule number of pedophiles amongst klall yosroel. These pedos are not being accused of mishkav zochor (though it doesn't make it much worse), they were fondling or perhaps playing orally with these nebach kids. And you go advocating that the rabonim should be matir to knock up every female in sight, in order to avoid pedohilia. Your minds are at least as perverted as the BML's amongst us, if not a lot more. You are speaking from a perspective of a genuine and shameless baaal taaveh. Shame on you.

[Jay]

Pessie, I know a Jewish homosexual who was a student in a frum yeshiva in Israel. He was told bluntly not to engage in his behavior while in the Yeshiva, to which he agreed. they incuded him in minyanim however he was not offered any honors beyond that. No psichas or aliyahs. Many Orthodox rabbis interpret homosexuality to be a matter of Ones-- a coercion beyond one's control. Others interpret it as a state of tinok shenishbar "captive child" who didn't grow up knowing any better. Consequently, while they will not offer them honors that are publicly visible they will count them in a minyan

[mechl]

Althelion

Makobetzky has no yichus whatsoever, beside his own. Please refrain from accusing or commenting when you you have no information to buck it up. What is it in frumkeit that you hate so?

[mechl]

Jay,

I marvel at your briliance. All the modern day chachomim notwithstanding, homosexuality, is nothing more than shameless taaveh. Of course, someone who is in the firm grips of the YH, might be considered a "nishboh" (not nishbar, btw), but it is he himself who put him in that position. Homosexuality only happens to fargrebte baale taavos, then they cry that they can't help themselves, so they caan feel good about themselves.

[R]

i don't think allowing girls and boys to meet and have pre marrital sex will alleviate the problem of couples cheating on each other. That makes no sense. Some people are cheats and some people are not.
As for this beth din ruling, no one should listen to what they say, they have no right to obstruct justice and be biased towards one party.

[Althelion]

"Maybe we should instead show the world whos boss and start raping men in order to show the world that women are superior to men"

Yes Mistress Pessie

[Althelion]

Mechl says:

"Makobetzky has no yichus whatsoever, beside his own."

Nu, was he found by the side of the road? The whole concept of yichus is nothing more than a Jewish caste system designed to perpetuate the power of the people who have it to their offspring.

So, in lieu of yichus, praytell, how did Makobetzky ascend to his lofty beit din post?

Mechl than asks: What is it in frumkeit that you hate so?

Althelion answers: INTOLERANCE. You might say I am intolerant of intolerance.

[Althelion]

And another thing Mechl:

You refer to the children whom these pious people assaulted as "nebach kids."

These children are VICTIMS. They are blameless. They are not losers. Many people, myself included, will not let them be thrown away.

[mechl]

althelion

it is so sad to see someone as clueless as you.

Makobetzky was not appointed to this bais-din. He happens to be a considerable talmid-chochom with some common sense as well, so he formed his own bais-din, and is considered to be a fair and honest bais-din.

Frummers are intolerant of unashamed baale taaveh. You happen to be right there.

[mechl]

when i said nebach kids, this is what i meant. poor unfortunate victims. i stand corrected. thank you

[Althelion]

Mechl said regarding Makobetzky:

"He happens to be a considerable talmid-chochom with some common sense as well"

From this statement you imply that it is possible to be a considerable talmid-chochom WITHOUT common sense. How many gedoylim are like that? What kind of poseks do those folks hand down?

Mechl said about Althelion (Hey, that's me!):

"Frummers are intolerant of unashamed baale taaveh. You happen to be right there."

I place my faith and trust in the good Lord NOT in the hashkafa of intolerant; insecure; and messianic yiddin.

[ML]

Pessie,

You REALLY do need to get back on your meds. Or see a shrink. If this makes you angry it only proves the point. Have a nice day.

[Jay]

Mechl, why in the world should anyone accept your point of view as superseding that of chachamim who allow homosexuals to have an aliyah. If a rosh yeshiva declares a potential student to be subject to Ones,who are you to contradict that?

[HaNavon]

actually mechl, you remember how i mentioned that the contemporary jewish revisionists make claims that the elements of the 'chumra culture' were always practiced by jews throughout history, when in fact that is abject falsehood?
the mahari mintz writes in a tshuva several hundred years ago that men and women are allowed to dance with each other, but only singles, and you should not dance with a married woman. there were many other poskim over the past thousand years that allowed lots of interaction between boys and girls. it is only in the last 40 years that it is talked about as if it's an issur diureysa!
also, the gemara says that we don't allow a man to look lustfully at a woman, to talk to her and to even touch her, if he has a sickness from which he will die if he does not, but, says the talmud, this is only in order that the jewish girls shouldn't be treated as prostitutes, but if the girls themselves will also have a sickness from the isolation, why then would it be forbidden?
also, the halacha is in 'even haezer' that you MAY have sex with a jewish girl to whom you are not married! this machlokes rishonim is brought down in the 'rema', and he says about a pilegesh that yesh omrim mutar, yesh omrim assur, there are those (rishonim) that say it is allowed, those (rishonim) that say it is not allowed. now the son of the shach writes in a tshuva that he father held (as you can see clearly in the shach) that when the rema lists a "yesh omrim" twice, and he doesnt end it with "and this is fitting to do" or "this way is correct", that the rema holds 'l'halacha' like the FIRST one, which in this case is that a pilegesh is muttar. now the yaavitz knew this rema (chuckle) when he writes in a tshuva that PILEGESH IS MUTTAR, that a girlfriend is allowed! the only issue is, according to the yaavitz, and according to the 'rosh' that a girl may be afraid of going to the mikva, but in several more modern communities (you know, the ones with far less problems of homosexuality and pedophilia) the single women do go to the mikva! so, where is there "issur diureysa" about which you say i should be ashamed???

hmm, who feels stupid now?

[ZIY]

It is very upsetting to see the gay-bashing going on here in some of the comments. It is not unlike the very gay-bashing that goes on in chareidi circles. Please learn to distinguish molestation of an underage child or teenager (regardless of sex) from the activities of (gay) consensual adults. If you cannot understand the difference, then you are as dumb, if not nefarious, as those that you accuse.

[mechl]

Jay

No true self-respecting RY, deserving of the title, will show any tolerance for homosexuality. mishkav zochor is a toevah, no matter how you slice it. Toevah in and by itself, means zero tolerance. Sorry.

[mechl]

ZIY

of course, gays are not necessarily molesters, and not all molesters are gay.

however, both are despicable, each in their own way

[mechl]

haNavon

By issur deorayysa, i was referring to niddah. However, you call a girlfriend a pilegesh. Do you know that there are rules involved, otherwise it is beulas znuss.

[harold]

If you cannot understand the difference, then you are as dumb

Nothing wrong with being gay.

[harold]

Let me try that again (different picture).

If you cannot understand the difference, then you are as dumb

Nothing wrong with being gay.

[Cheskel]

HaNavon,
"WE MUST TURN IN THE RABBIS FROM THE BEIS DIN" i wonder how many halocus you observe besides Dina demalcusa dina.

[HaNavon]

mechl,

the difference between a baalas znus and a pilegesh is whether or not she is 'miyuchedes lo', if she is monogamous with him. if she if 'hefker l'chol adam', open for all men, then it is definately not allowed, but if she's involved solely with one man, then theres nothing wrong with it.

[HaNavon]

cheskel,

actually this is NOT an issue of dina d'malchusa at all!!!
this is SHMIRAS YISRAEL! if you allow it to continue you are over on many sins, including "lo taamod al dam reyecha" do not stand upon your brothers blood.
the obligation in calling the FBI is because a) if you don't this sets a precedent for rabbis to continue covering these crimes up, b) you may get into trouble with the gov't if you know about it and keep quiet c)the entire jewish community will become a target when it becomes known that 'we' cover it up. this is no different than the case in choshen mishpat of turning in (or killing) a jew who counterfeits money, because when they find out, they go against the whole community.
if you do not call the FBI, and they find out (which they will!) then they'll start checking into all of the cases of 'gedolei yisrael' knowing about these crimes for the past 25 years without acting....and you will see an investigation that goes so deep that aharon schechter, mattisyahu solomon, novaminsker rebbe and yisroel belsky will all be taken out in handcuffs and brought to prison.
leibowitz is just the beginning

[Chayim]

GAYS ARE SINNERS AND they are worse than murderers according to Jewish law. CHAREIDI POWER NUMBER ONE

[critical minyan]

I know many Homosexuals, most are fine people. What I was trying to do with my dvar torah, was present a possible interpertation of how to read the ancient bible, to include people who are often excluded.

[cheskel]

Hanavon,
"SHMIRAS YISRAEL" good to know that a poster on blogs is concerned about the safety of klal yisroel whereas 'gedolei yisrael' are not as concerned and covering up. Child molestation is a very serious issue and no one takes it lightly. its just because it is so sensitive and its about tznias,is the reason in the charedi world spoke about it quietly. But who could ever imagined what a hot topic this would be to the secular Jewish world or to people who left the fold. For them the entire torah everything has to put on hold and nothing else but child molestation. Anyone who leaves the fold reason is from now on:molested.

[Althelion]

Cheskel said:

"who could ever imagined what a hot topic this would be to the secular Jewish world or to people who left the fold."

I guess all those secularists and fold-leavers are just compassionate people who care about kids.

By the way, what fold is it they we're leaving?

[The Other DK]

Cheskel:

Unfortunately, tzniut is being used by some (by no means all) to facilitate coverups.

We are not the only religious group with these problems. However, molestation in the frum community is OUR problem which WE need to solve.

[steve]

But who could ever imagined what a hot topic this would be to the secular Jewish world or to people who left the fold

I haven't left the fold nor do I ever intend to. It is the so-called charedi leadership that has left the ways of the Torah! The way the charedi leadership has mishandled this problem is both despicable and criminal. For you to come on here and try to defend it, knowing very well all that has been exposed in the last four years, is just as despicable. This is not a "left vs. right" issue or a "charedi/chiloni" issue. This is about wicked people who value assets and honor more than human life. Both the molesters and enablers are starting to be held accountable for their wickedness and we will not stop until every last one of them is brought to justice. Our children WILL be protected from these violent predators, those mis-leaders will be brought down and apologists like yourself can go to hell.

[steve]

For them the entire torah everything has to put on hold and nothing else but child molestation.

And for the charedi leadership, the Torah has not only been put on hold but has been thrown out the window. In order to protect the yeshivos assets, they have sold out thousands of Jewish lives. The blood of Shua Finkelstein, Motty Borger and Daniel Levin is still boiling and is demanding justice. Every "leader" that helped protect and coverup their molesters must be held accountable, together with those predators. The Torah calls for justice for the victims, protection of our children and accountabiltiy of the leaders. THAT is Daas Torah, not coverups and lies and allowing child molesters to roam freely to molest again and again. A child molester is A RODEF. He must be turned over to the police. He is a violent criminal and must be treated like any murderer or rapist. This is the Torah law and this is the law of this country that we live in. Attempts to circumvent these laws IS CRIMINAL. The Torah should NEVER be put on hold or trampled upon like these "leaders" have done! Not for all the money in the world.

[harold]

Sorry guys about the double picture posts, but for some reason when I posted the first image my browser showed a small image placeholder with a red "X" in it so I assumed that something was wrong in my post or with the image hence my second post. It is not my intension to inundate with images, there are so many around if one is interested. I just wanted to give a flavor as to why there is such controversy especially if you throw religion into the mix.

[HaNavon]

cheskel,

first of all, i want to remind you to go back to the article "haredi 'super' thiefs story to air on cnbc, and see what i responded to your resent post.
as for this issue, are you really convinced that the 'gedolei yisrael' are so concerned for the jewish people, or maybe they're more concerned for the future of the chareidi movement? (it is a movement, just like reform and conservative are movements, and it started relatively recently) all i know is that r' kanyevsky poskined that a chareidi baalas tshuva asked him what to do when her non religious, but jewish father left orders in his will that he be cremated, so he said that "anyone who asks to be cremated is NOT a jew" and allowed it! this is part of the neo chareidi view that we're the only real jews, everyone else can go fly a kite.
the 'gedolim' have known about the problem of child molestation since the 1980's and have done NOTHING to stop it, in fact they've tried to cover it up, as mattisyahu solomon said openly at the agudah conference that "we should sweep it under the carpet". it is a documented fact that the gedolim have begun (since it became a hot topic and they can no longer sit and do nothing) forcing the pedophiles out of the community, but they don't turn them in and they go to another community and open shop there! the gedolim seem much more concerned about keeping their own power than they do about the jewish people, which is why they made such a big deal over avi weiss's female rabbi, but never said a word about tropper, or any of the other scandals. this is what he greek philosopher thucydides says in the history of the peloponnesian wars that tyrants will always utilize their power to aggrandize their name and continue their dynasty at the expense of the masses!
we have all been held hostage by these gedolim and their cohorts....here they assared indian hair sheitels, thousands of jewish women had to buy new sheitels for thousands of dollars a piece, and then they admitted that it was just a lack of information, but they never tried to reimburse the money to all of those jewish families, did they? they spend all of their time trying to keep themselves in power by scaring us and making us feel like we need them, and how much time do they spend trying to uproot corruption?

[cheskel]

Hanavon, you write:
"we have all been held hostage by these gedolim and their cohorts....here they assared indian hair sheitels, thousands of jewish women had to buy new sheitels for thousands of dollars a piece, and then they admitted that it was just a lack of information, but they never tried to reimburse the money to all of those jewish families, did they? they spend all of their time trying to keep themselves in power by scaring us and making us feel like we need them, and how much time do they spend trying to uproot corruption?" Seems like you are into conspiracy theories all the gedolim rabonim etc think alike all they care is power and money. ever heard about the elders of zion? where jews held a big meeting to overtake the world

[The Other DK]

Cheskel:

Most of the current group of "Gedolim" have limited contact with the outside world. Therefore, they can be (and are) manipulated.

If you want to hear about one incident, listen to what R. Noson Kamenetsky had to say about the banning of his book. Just open this page to listen online or download the mp3 file:

http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/731293/Rabbi_Nathan_Kamenetsky/Making_of_a_Ban:_A_Look_At_the_Banning_of_Making_of_A_Godol

[HaNavon]

cheskel,

hmm, you're linking the corruption within the orthodox world to an anti-semitic book that claims that the worlds jewish bankers are in control of all of the worlds wars and finances through manipulation of money, how? these are two different things. i do not believe that the rothschild family has anything to do with the fact that since ww2, the surviving talmidei chachamim from lithuania have systematically subverted the other, already existing jewish communities in america and israel with the establishment of their own yeshivas, seminaries, and jewish news outlets, and have sent their own talmidim in an organized and premeditated campaign into the more modern minded jewish schools, and that they have literally turned themselves into deified personality cults, to the point where no one can question their authority and even the sfardim and the german jews have to capitulate to their collective agenda. this is an established fact, cheskel, if you'd like to discuss it at length, we can speak on the phone or in person, but keep in mind that i have more information on these subjects than most people do, and the people who actually are informed all agree with me.

[A. Nuran]

Cheskel, if only you were right. I would be dancing for joy if "everyone" took child sexual abuse seriously. Unfortunately that's not the way it works. The Charedi have a consistent policy of minimizing the harm, retaliating against the victims and protecting the rapist scum. The other strains of Judaism are much, much better. It's exactly the same pattern as we saw with the Catholic church.

And it's not just the baby-rapers. The Charedim are in the unenviable position of living an unsustainable life.

It simply cannot continue economically. Very few work. Most of their work is low end. They have a very high proportion of dependents - kollel guys and children. The communities are dependent on government assistance and charity. Since these are not sufficient to sustain the people we've seen a lot of crime and fraud in an attempt to fill the gaps.

The social survival techniques that (sort of) worked in Czarist Russia were transplanted directly to the modern world pretty much unmodified. They did not work during the Shoah. They do not work in 21st century America. They do not work in 21st century Israel. The only way they can work is by increasingly brutal social control in classic cult fashion.

[shmulki]

A.Nuran
wow youre so eloquent in describing the chareidim hats of to you youre briliant a genious

[Pessie Gelb]

I got rid of my charaidi filtered internet service and replaced it with a wireless air card so that I can access failedmessiah.com. which is not accessable with chraidi filtered internet. Even if failedmessiah.com is not accessable on charaidi filtered internet, failedmessiah.com should still try to hold as much as possible to the standards of charaidi filtered internet and not allow lewd pictures such as are posted on this page.

[Jay]

Harold, you chose pictures that were meant to be deliberately inflammatory and can in now way be considered representative of all Gay people. It speaks volumes about YOU that you searched these images and posted them.

[harold]

Harold, you chose pictures that were meant to be deliberately inflammatory and can in now way be considered representative of all Gay people. It speaks volumes about YOU that you searched these images and posted them.

No, these were not chosen to be inflammatory. These were chosen to show vividly what images are in the mind of people who so vehemently post against homosexuality. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words and these pictures show just what the battle with homophobes are all about.

[steve]

IMPORTANT MESSAGE FROM THE GOVERNOR WHICH AFFECTS ALL NEW YORK COMMUNITIES:

Dear New Yorkers,

I have made clear throughout the fiscal crisis that despite our financial difficulties, New York will not shirk from the most fundamental of government obligations – the protection of its citizenry and of its communities. With that in mind, I would like to inform you of an important new initiative I signed and enacted into law that will enable you to automatically receive an alert when a moderate or high-risk sex offender moves into an area of interest to you or your family, NY-ALERT.

Through this new service, you can be notified by e-mail, text message, fax or telephone when a sex offender moves into or out of your community, or even when an offender relocates within a certain radius (from a quarter mile to 25 miles) of your home.

Here’s how it works: As part of the NY-ALERT system, through which 5.8 million New Yorkers receive alerts on everything from natural disasters to traffic congestion. Now, you have an option to sign up for sex offender alerts. After registering at http://www.ny.gov/governor/ and choosing various options, such as how you want to be notified and your regions of interest, you will receive sex offender relocation notices whenever a Level 2 (moderate risk) or Level 3 (high risk) sex offender listed on the public Sex Offender Registry moves into or out of your designated community of concern. If you do not have access to a computer, you can also subscribe to this important system by calling 1-888-697-6972 Monday through Friday 8 a.m. to 4 p.m.

In addition to signing NY-ALERT into law, I have enacted several significant measures to protect New York’s children and families including signing a law (E-STOP) that requires sex offenders to submit their internet information, including e-mail addresses and screen names to the Sex Offender registry; enacting one of the toughest DWI laws in the country, the Child Passenger Protection Act (also known as Leandra’s Law); and signed into law legislation ending the practice of allowing the State’s most violent felons to receive credit for prior sentences, and thereby become eligible for parole far earlier than intended.

Together with the NY-ALERT legislation sponsors, Senator Jeff Klein and Assembly Member Rory Lancman, we will further enhance New York’s efforts at protecting our children and families. I hope that you and your neighbors will take advantage of this important, new service.

Best,

David A. Paterson
Governor of New York State

[HaNavon]

actually shmarya, i agree with pessie gelb on this one and i'll tell you why. we have a message that needs to be heard by the chareidi world. usually subversion and secret societies are bad, but in this case, we are a part of a vast and as yet unorganized secret society trying to subvert a system that, if not changed immediately, will lead to a complete disaster!
whatever has to happen to bring to the masses of the chareidi world the idea that their rabbinic hierarchy is totally corrupt as well as the ideas of enlightenment, must be done...

[Pessie Gelb]

Regarding cremation:
Whenever a child goes to court to try to stop his parent from being cremated, the judge usually orders a temporary order to pospone cremation and allow temporary burial. After the person is buried with a jewish funeral and the mourners have had a chance to sit shiva and say kadish, non-religious siblings have a chance to go to court to try to get the judge to agree that the parent's body gets cremated and religious siblings have the opportunity to argue in court that the parents body should stay buried.
Burial is reversible. Cremation is not reversible.
There was once a case in Miami Beach where a prominent jewish renewal rabbi who had been orthodox when he was in his twenties was trying to have his mother cremated as per his mothers will and have her cremated quickly so that he could stop being an oinan who is not allowed to daven or even say bruchois. He tried arguing with the Miami Beach coroner, who happened to be an orthodox jew, that jewish law requires that jewish bodies be buried quickly and that since burial for his mother will be cremation instead of burial, that the coroner should allow quick burial for his mother. The orthodox jewish coroner told him that he should have his mother buried according to jewish law but the jewish renewal rabbi had to be stobbornly not orthodox and continue to insist that his mother be cremated as per her wishes, causing theorthodox jewish coroner to insist that the law requiring a considerable delay between death and cremation be followed in order that relatives objecting to the cremation should have time to go to court to petition the court to delay the cremation and allow temporary burial.

[Pessie Gelb]

I went off the subject of this story because I am annoyed at Rav Kanievsky's psak that anybody whowants to be cremated is not jewish so allow them to be cremated. Who is this Rabbi Kanievsky to say that a jew is not a jew because he wants to be cremated? Doesnt Rav Kanievsky know that anybody who is born from a jewish mother is a jew whether he follows the jewish religion or not and even if he doesnt even know that he is a jew? Doesnt Rav Kanievsky know that every jew is a cheileik eiloikai mimaal mamush?

[Pessie Gelb]

We have to tell the charaidi world that we will under no circumstances tolerate sexual abuse of minors. Anybody who sexually abuses a minor is a roidef and should be killed immediately without even first giving the roidef a chance to defend himself in bais din, but American law does not allow us to kill anybody even if he is a roidef and therefore we have no choice except to make a mesira against the roidef to the police. The laws against mesira are meant to keep us from turning somebody like Shulim Mordechai Rubashkin into the government.

[Pessie Gelb]

Get these lewd pictures off this website

[Pessie Gelb]

Whoever said that a person who sexually abuses minors is a roidef like a rapist or a murderer is only partially right. A person who sexually abuses minors is not like a rapist. He is a rapist and should be treated be treated like we treat a rapist. 32 years in prison for rapist Lebowitz.

[Isa]

Pessie Gelb is a liberal for espousing 'only' 32 years

I say douse the sucker in gasoline and flick a match

end of dark humor/

My daughter was physically attacked in front of us at a family gathering yet! The sicko was like he was in a different world...

After that I learn this 'doctor' spent a couple years in a California prison for abusing some daughter of a friend in his clinic. MUCH LATER,off the Web he had to give up his medical license both in California and New York. I got a document that says "I admit my guilt..." BTW this sucker is an Atheist

[Pessie Gelb]

If Isa wants to murder child molesters he has my blessing to do so and not get caught and go to jail for murder, but I am not interested in going to jail so I will not murder criminals. I will instead of murdering them turn them into the police and let legitamate courts of laws decide what to do with them.

[Pessie Gelb]

Regarding questions that were made on this page regarding my mental health. My ABUsive husband, in order that I should not be able to show up in court to testify against him at his arraignment for having molested our 7 year old daughter, called the police on me for being allegedly suicidel. The police broke down the door of my apartment and handcuffed me and forced me into an ambulance and took me to the hospital where the doctors could find nothing wrong with me except a broken wrist that was caused by the police who had handcuffed me. Shortly thereafter he bribed members of williamsburg hatzule to break into my apartment and beat me up and force me into an ambulance and take me to a mental hospital where the psychiatrists found nothing wrong with me. He then bribed a social worker to have me transfered to a different psychiatric ward with a different psychiatrist in charge who he bribed to say that I am mentally ill and need to be in a mental hospital and need to be on psychiatric drugs where they kept me until after my ABUsive husband's child molestation hearing where he got the charges against him dissmissed because I wasnt able to be in court to testify against him because he had me locked up in a mental hospital so that I couldnt testify against him in court.

[Pessie Gelb]

My husband still refuses to give me a get. Please make demonstrations in front of his house for the purpose of getting him to give me a get. His name is Elimelech Gelb and his address is 89a division avenue in williamsburg.

[Pessie Gelb]

I read another story from 2007 about child molestation on this blog in which former child wonder chazan Menachem Lang tells the story about his having left yidishkait because he had been molested by 3 different child molesters during his youth in Bnai Brak. He went back to Bnai Brak together with a news reporter to confront the men who had molested him one of whom was the son of a great admor.
The good news is that the son of this admor is now in jail for child molestation, but it sickens me that so many young charaidi men have gone away from yidishkait because they were molested and/or raped by rabbis who are repressed homosexuals.

[Pessie Gelb]

The sin of doing something to a person that causes that jew to leave yidishkait is a lot worse than the sin of doing mishkav zucher with a consenting adult. If repressing their homosexuality causes repressed homosexuals to molest and rape yinglach and bucherim, these repressed homosexuals should rather stop repressing their homosexuality and look for consenting adults to sin with. In America and even in Israel nobody ever gets stoned to death or even put in jail for having a homosexual affair with a consenting adult.

[Pessie Gelb]

Mishkav zucher is a horrible sin, toiaivu and abomination but the biblical punishment of being stoned to death can only be enforced if homosexuals commit sodomy in public or semi-public places such as mikvas and are seen by 2 kosher witnesses commiting the homosexual act. Consenting adults who commit homosexual acts behind locked doors will never be caught red handed in the act of commiting a homosexual act and will never be killed or even put in jail for commiting a homosexual act, but those repressed homosexuals who molest and rape yinglach and bucherim will go to jail for many years.

[Jay]

Sentence him on Yom Kippur

[eyesay]

There are two pictures posted in these comments. Neither of them is lewd. The first picture is of two men who appear to love each other. The second picture is of six men wearing Uncle Sam hats bathing suits. They have their arms on each other shoulders, but they are not showing any affection or sexual interest in each other.

Neither picture shows sexual organs or is titillating or appeals to prurient interest. Anyone who regards these pictures as lewd does not understand what lewdness is.

[Pessie Gelb]

Thease are obvious homosexual pictures and should not be on a jewish website.

[Pessie Gelb]

Stop taking lewd pictures from homosexual websites and posting them on jewish websites.

[HaNavon]

pessie gelb,

you can't stop repeating yourself, you're making interesting mistakes in spelling, context, syntax and logic.
do you suffer from a mild case of autism?

[Pessie Gelb]

Burich Mordechai Lebovits was a tzadik who in his work as a travel agent had to use the internet for parnusa. He saw pictures of homosexuals on the internet and was attracted to them but since he was a chasideshe yid he had no opportunity to fullfill his newly aquired homosexual desires with consenting adults so he ended up becoming a child molester and child rapist now he will have to spend the rest of his life in jail because of it. This is what the internet does to people even to adults who use the internet for business.

[Pessie Gelb]

Hanavon:
I think that you want charaidim to become child molesters and child rapists just so that you can have an excuse to make fun of charaidim.

[A E ANDERSON]

A tzadik? Who has evil thoughts? Shame!

A tzadik is one who has no evil thoughts because he has killed his evil inclination.

Have you forgotten Tanya 101?

[Just The Facts, Ma'am]

HaNavon

Reb Yisroel Belsky has never been scared of controvery. He has even gone up against R' Aaron Shechter, R Svei, etc..... when he felt that the community was being robbed of justice and the Beth Din system was being manipulated.

Please back up your claims that he ever was involved in covering up the crimes of a sexual molestor.