Satmar Poultry Slaughterhouse Duck Recall

A non-kosher duck breed sold as kosher.

After initially denying the problem, last week under pressure Kiryas Joel Poultry issued a duck recall:

 

            A proclamation titled "Notice" in "Der Blatt" of January 15, 2010, KJ Poultry of Monroe, N.Y., signed by management, requests the return of ducks purchased "due to the investigation underway of the ducks delivered by a farmer that may have mixed breeds." The announcement advises that: "Until such time that a clear determination can be made, the ducks are not to be eaten and should be returned."

The determination KJ Poultry wanted has now been made, and the problem, such that it is, is real::

Details on the kosher issue regarding birds in general and ducks specifically.

[Hat Tip: A–Vroom!]

Update 12:55 pm CST – Here's a poster against Rabbi Aharon Tietelbaum for allowing the ducks to be eaten:

Comments

[Bill]

See!!

This is what happens when rabbis try, post-hoc, to revoke the "duck-iness of purebred ducks.

It's chaos!

[harold]

Thanks for the heads up!

[Yerachmiel Lopin]

The kashrut of Muscovy ducks has been in dispute for about 150 years. In the past there were highly regarded poskim on both sides of the fence. Over time it appears that the tendency has been to reject the kasher status of the Muscovy duck. The real issue here is that Satmar considers the Muscovy a forbidden species. Satmar KJ was misleading their consumers when they sold them Muscovy as if it was a Pekin (the accepted kosher katchkah of the old world).

If Satmar were faithful to their values, having made the mistake (assuming that is all it was) they would have admitted it, instituted necessary kashering of their own facilities that handled it, and advised their consumers about necessary kashering. This is what was done in Monsey when they discovered that treyf chickens were being sold as kosher. Halachically, this is much worse. The Monsey case involved a sofek d'rabbanan. This is at least a sofek d'oraisa.

[chabib]

I guess we can't now see the Marx Brother's
movie " Duck Soup " !

[Witness]

The issue of Muskovy has indeed been debated for more than 150 years. However, every rabbi that issued a permissible ruling did so conditionally. Contemporary rabbis, including the OU, do not allow it. No leading responsible rabbi that deals with kashus today permits it. Satmar's handling of the issue is not in keeping with their absolute strict guidelines.

[NoYiddishOnlyHebrew]

Can someone translate the ad against the Nirbatter?

[Witness]

It's not against the Nirbatur Rav (who has an excellent reputation) but against Rabbi Ahron Teitelbaum, the Satmar Rebbe from Mnroe (Kiryas Yoel).

[HaNavon]

i'm not generally in favor of anything that aharon teitelbaum says, and i feel strongly that he is a negative influence on the jewish people, however, in this case, i agree with him. the issue about the muskovy duck has indeed been debated for a long time, but the issue was NOT about whether or not this duck is a non kosher bird at all, it is whether or not we need a 'mesorah', a tradition about it's kashrus. this bird has been eaten by jews from the times before the ruling of the rema (hilchos simanei oifos) had become widespread, and there is a famous ruling from the "arugas habosem" that we may eat a bird on which we are lacking a tradition authenticating it's kashrus, if we've lived in close proximity to this bird for over 12 months and know that it does not have the signs of a non kosher bird.

[Successful Messiah]

The Monsey case was worse than this as it involved chickens that were definitely non-kosher. While Satmar seems to have committed a major (and quite embarrasing) faux paus here, there is a basis for ruling that the Muscovy ducks are kosher. I'm not a rabbi, but I suspect that most rabbonim today would not require kashering of keilim used for Muscovy ducks, at least if it were not a "ben yomo."

[state of disgust]

Vya duck?

[in the know]

does this mean that duck tape has no mesora either? how about frog tape?

[Neo-Conservaguy]

Contemporary rabbis, including the OU, do not allow it. No leading responsible rabbi that deals with kashus today permits it.

While accurate, that statement says more about the absurd lurching to the right of the Orthodox movement(s) than about which halachic position has more merit. I refer you to the state of what kosher cheese is "acceptable" to such rabbis, or what meat (e.g. glatt), etc. It's a different world than it was even 50 years ago - and not for the better in many ways.

[PishPosh]

In short, they have no mesorah worth drek and have no right to preach to others about something they are totally stupid about.

[Big Jew]

Would someone tell the lot of them to stop crying fowl!

[PulpitRabbi]

@Yerachmiel Lopin, @Witness: You are right that the kashrut of muscovy duck has been in dispute for 150 years, however,HaNavon and SuccessfulMessiah are right that the Monsey case was far worse, though unintentional.

Here we are indeed talking about a coverup, but about a coverup where many would contend that the bird is kosher, and that if we are strict, it is because Ashkenazim follow the view of Rashi and the Issur veHetter, ratified by Rama, that since the Torah does not give any explicit signs as to what bird is kosher, therefore we only eat such birds for which there is a continuous tradition that they are kosher. Turkey, a New World bird, came in through a back door, as it was first eaten by Sefardim, who do not follow this view of Rashi et al.

ThereforeHaNavon's comment is applicable, and at stake is really a question of a serious tradition, but not any serious fear of biblical infraction, despite what the pashkevil-posters say.

Neo-Conservaguy: The reason the OU doesn't certify muscovy is that they want as broad a market as possible, as a service to their customers (the companies seeking and paying for certification), and must stay out of areas of too great controversy lest they tarnish their reputation. The real question to ask is whether the OU poskim are convinced that the muscovyis kosher-but-they-don't-certify-it, treif, or kosher-but-impermissible-by-minhag.

[Dr. Dave]

Once again a matter of hypocritical inconsistency.

I you treat the muscovy as treif, then turkey should be treif as well.

I fyou eat turkey, then how can you ban the muscovy duck?

[Isa]

I looked up the latin name for this duck 'Carina Moschata' and lo and behold that is the type of duck that is around the little ponds here in Texas. Strange looking duck, looks like 'growths' on the head sort of ugly.
But if ducks are around or swim in a body of water, there are no alligators there.

I also read that these ducks can be cross bred with Mallards [I found no pictures of such] But I imagine how this slipped by since maybe it just looked like a large Mallard. It seems this whole thing started with a DNA result from some meat.

[Maskil]

What is this compulsion to yell hypocrite? There is no group and there is no person whose extreme version of piety is universal. Each Pharisee picks his own mishugaas to be stringent in while being lenient if not negligent in others. There is no law that binds one precept to another (i.e. to say that in order to keep halav yisrael properly one must first keep Shabbat, or the like) let alone one stringency to another. The Pharisee with the big tefillin may use a Shabbos telephone while the Pharisee with the long tzitzit may spit on widows and orphans. While you may detest the latter actions do not use them to scrutinize the former.

Pathetic!

[Alex]

I do not get it. Why is this duck not kosher but the turkey is kosher? Turkeys have entered European and probably Sephardi diets relatively recently so there is no tradition in Biblical times of eating them either.

[levi]

Alex: since when is there any consistency in this religion

[Isa]

The Turkey got to be 'Kosher' because the Sephardim first ate it. [Got in through the back door according to one post I saw]

[Baruch Atta]

My wife once sent me to buy some ground turkey. I went in the first butcher shop in Geula. Asked for hodu tichon. He replied "zeh lo belz, adoni". Nuff said