Rabbi Elyashiv Bans Braces For Women

Orthodontic braces "disqualify" dip in mikveh because they create a "barrier" between person and the water.

Braces not allowed in ritual bath
Rabbi Yosef Elyashiv's new ruling: Orthodontic braces disqualify dip in mikveh because they create barrier between person, water. This effectively prohibits adult women from straightening their teeth
Ari Galahar • Ynet

A new halachic ruling was made recently by the leader of the Lithuanian faction, Rabbi Yosef Elyashiv, that effectively forbids adult women from seeking orthodontic treatment to straighten their teeth. According to the ruling, braces on one's teeth are considered a "partition" [sic] and therefore disqualify dipping in the ritual bath, also known as a mikveh.

A few weeks ago, an individual approached Rabbi Elyashiv in order to seek advice on whether orthodontic braces are considered to create a partition between women dipping in the mikveh after their menstrual cycle and the water.

After a thorough study of halachic material on the subject, Rabbi Elyashiv responded that braces are indeed a partition between the woman and the water, which must come in contact with every part of the body according to halacha.

The ruling was made despite the fact that dipping in the mikveh is done with a closed mouth, and water would not touch the teeth in any case, braces or not. According to Elyashiv, the halacha also refers to partitions within the body, such that there is no significance to whether or not the teeth are actually being immersed in the water.

The mikveh immersion of a woman with braces would therefore be disqualified, and she would not be able to have sexual relations with her husband, or even to come in any physical contact with him.

A source close to the rabbi noted that even dirt under one's finger nails is considered a partition that would disqualify a mikveh immersion. He also noted that according to halacha, or at least the haredi version, the immersion of a woman who intends to get her hair cut, but immerses goes to the mikveh prior to this, is disqualified because her hair at that point is no longer considered a part of her body.

Orthodontists and dentists in the haredi sector already prepared themselves for the new halachic ruling. One haredi dentists' office already published a notice announcing that removable braces are available to customers at their office. They even offered a special deal for the wives of yeshiva students.

This is one of the more foolish rulings to come out of Rabbi Elyashiv in recent years.

Simply put, traditional bridgework is connected to healthy teeth using metal – meaning the same type of "barrier" is present.

That would mean that women with such bridgework should also be disqualified from immersing if Rabbi Elyashiv's logic is followed to its conclusion.

Yet, for at least 100 years such women have been immersing with the approval of the greatest rabbis in the world.

Past that, there a lots of rulings from major rabbis that go against Rabbi Elyashiv. For example, a woman should not wear contact lenses when immersing but, if she did, after the fact the immersion is valid according to many rabbis.

Contact lenses are removable, at the time these rulings were issued were normally taken out daily (making them less a part of the body, so to speak, than braces), and would not normally come into contact with mikva water, because the eyes are not opened during immersion.

In other words, this seems to be yet another example of overreaching by Rabbi Elyashiv.

Knowing his history, that should come as no surprise to anyone.

Comments

[Zevi]

This is one old...very old jackass.
Why would anyone listen or care what he
says.

[CHAIM]

I HOPE ALL WOMAN BOYCOTT THIS SENILE OLD MAN AND USE THEIR MOUTH TO BITE OFF THE P........ OF CHAREDI MOLESTORS

[Bill]

From http://www.yoatzot.org/question.php?id=4746

(a website dedicated to "Women's Health and Halacha")

"I have recently developed a case of shingles..I have started to blister over.1) can i tovel with the blisters? 2) Is it a danger for other women to tovel in the same water? since the contagious part of the virus is in the blister .. 3) If i can't tovel at the regular time..how long must i wait?
Thank you

------------------

Dear questioner,
Thank you for your question.

Because the scabs are part of your skin and would be painful (and even slightly dangerous) to remove, they are not considered a chatzitzah. They should be soaked well to soften as much as possible. The degree of contagion via the water is rather small, but to be on the safe side, you should ask to be the last woman to immerse for the day before changing the water. You need to discuss this with the mikveh lady in advance, as different mikvaot change the water at different frequency and/or have filtration systems.
Refuah sheleimah!"

[Pessie Gelb]

I never heard any opinion on this matter that differs from the psak of Rav Elyashiv.
I want to know what rabunim hold otherwise.

[Thor]

In fact this is an unfortunate example of extra restrictions becoming considered halacha.
But I guess this is just what rabbis like to do.
Because according to the Gemara that pesak is wrong.
Deuraita you need rov and makpid to be a separation. Derabana you either one is a chatzitza. The way "makpid" is explained by Rashi it means "strict to take it off". I.e. like a nail that is just hanging on at one end that one would normally just take off.
But here she is running to the mikva so she has no time to bit it off. That is the peshat Makpid. Needless to say there is no such thing as being makpid because of the mikva. The hakpada has to come from a natural reaction to something one would normally just take off. The way makpid is explained nowadays disagrees with rashi. I don't remember anyone (rishon) disagreeing with this Rashi. At any rate braces are not something a woman would normally being taking off. She wants it there. It is not makpid and not rov

[Hometown Postville]

"Braces/Dentures/Dirt under fingernails/ hair that needs cutting- New Age Birth Control."
What "disqualifies" the men from having sex?

[HF]

I think it's time for a golden parachute.

[critical_minyan]

i heard that rabbi elyashiv considers an independent thought in a woman's head to be a chatzizah (barrier) also.

[Office of the Chief Rabbi]

Rabbi Elyashiv needs to get laid.

[The Hedyot]

What about stitches from an operation?

I can't wait to see what effect this has in the chareidi world. This is either going to make him even further irrelevant or if people decide to follow him, it's going to bring them that much closer to realizing just how OJ has become.

[The Hedyot]

Oops. "...just how ridiculous OJ has become."

[WoolSilkCotton]

++Bill | February 15, 2010 at 04:58 AM++

That is incredible. No wonder these idiots are now spreading the mumps. They don't even wash their hands in the bathroom; they only rinse with that stupid cup outside the bathroom.
Only a matter of time before herpes zoster becomes an epidemic, thanks to the woman in that Q&A.

[seymour]

what happens if a woman had a hernia operation and they but a patch where the tear was. That part should be a barrier even thought it is inside the body since,

the halacha also refers to partitions within the body, such that there is no significance to whether or not the teeth are actually being immersed in the water.

this opens a whole can of worms, what about a stent, pacemaker, screws in the body?

I guess now a wife can always threaten her husband who does not want to but her something, if you don't I will get braces

[who knows?]

With this approach to life I wonder, how did Rav Elyashiv shlita had managed to produce over 1500 descendants?

[Phillip]

To follow his logic.... a woman can not
even get a tooth filling....
This old man needs 24 hour supervision
in a skilled Nursing Home.
But not here in Brooklyn....

[critical_minyan]

im more concerned about the children. How many children's true jewish blood stream have been compromised. So many of us are now suspect ben nidahs based on this new chumrah.
just to be careful, when you go out on a date, ask about the mom's teeth. If they are crooked and rotten, you know the progeny is pure.

[Norm]

The people aren't really Jews and its time the mainstream comunity stops subsidizing them and feeling guilty that they somehow represnet true Judaism. They are to Judaism what Jim Jones was to Christianity.

[Devorah]

If the women are so clean and pure, why do so many Chasids hire prostitutes or fool around? Maybe cleanliness killed the cat.

[Bill]

Wool,

To me the most heinous part of the responsa I quoted above is that the responder is defering to the opinion of a "mikvah lady" about the transmissibilty of an infectious disease - instead of telling her to ask a health professional.

It just demonstrate how ignorant and bone-headed some of these haredim are.

[Maskil]

It is of the essence that we investigate to reveal any and all cases of conversions where the "convert" immersed in a mikveh while fitted with dental braces. This is a far more serious matter for such men may not be counted for a minyan and the descendants of these women may not be married. The braces-converts are amongst us and must be eradicated.

[Shelly]

WOW. Anyting it takes to keep the Jewish woman looking dowdy or repulsive. It's called control. Besides many 'men' have other younger interests in class and they don't even notice their wife's crooked teeth.

[Dr. Dave]

Plot for the movie: Tooth Fairy:

Derek Thompson is 'The Tooth Fairy,' a hard-charging minor league hockey player whose nickname comes from his habit of separating opposing players from their bicuspids. When Derek discourages a youngster's hopes, he's sentenced to one week's hard labor as a real tooth fairy, complete with the requisite tutu, wings and magic wand. At first, Derek "can't handle the tooth" – bumbling and stumbling as he tries to furtively wing his way through strangers' homes…doing what tooth fairies do. But as Derek slowly adapts to his new position, he begins to rediscover his own forgotten dreams.

Plot for the sequel Truth Rabbi:

Rabbi Elyashiv is 'The Shtuyot Fairy,' a hard-charging Chumra monger whose nickname comes from his habit of separating normal Jews from their Beliefs.
When Rabbi Elyashiv discourages the non chareidi world's hopes, he's sentenced to one week's hard labor as a non Hareidi Rabbi, complete with the requisite compassion, humility and mishna brura. At first, Rabbi Elyashiv "can't handle the truth" – bumbling and stumbling as he tries to furtively wing his way through strangers' lives…doing what chareidim do. But as Rabbi Elyashiv slowly adapts to his new position, he begins to rediscover his forgotten bretheren.

[chief doofis]

There are several G'dolim who allow braces in the mikva (including R' Ovadia Yosef). At any rate, I don't think that R' Eliashiv is trying to do something evil, and while many of us, who observe Taharat Hamishpacha, may ignore his p'sak, few of us have the educational background to dispute it.

I often disagree with the actions of many Haredim, and do not always follow the decress of their Rabbis. It's still inappropriate to toss abusive language around. Centrists who call a great scholar "senile" are no better than Haredim who attach those to their left.

Find yourself a religious leader, and follow his decisions. Ad hominem attacks are uncalled for.

[Jay]

Come on now.. let's be honest here. He's doing this ban for one reason only: He doesn't allow women to be Mohels ;-)

[seymour]

to chief doofis

stupidity should be called out no matter who said it.

The man is senile and his words should not be taken seriously

[Big Jew]

WHILE YOU GUYS ARE AT IT WHY DON'T YOU MOCK HASHEM AS WELL AND REALLY SEAL YOUR FATES??
THE TORAH SAYS IF YOU LIGHT A MATCH ON SHABBOS YOU GET KILLED. YET A GOY WHO KEEPS SHABBOS IS CHAYAV MISAH AND GETS KILLED! GO GUFFAW ABOUT HOW CRAZY THAT SOUNDS!!

It never ceases to amaze me that those who know the least Halacha are generally the most vociferous against Gedolims Piskei Halachos. If Steve Jobs or Bill Gates said something about computer chips that you didn't understand or don't agree with would you all talk the same way? Why is it that its always open season on the Gedolim. They are not senile old men. In fact Rav Elyashiv at 99 years old can process things many times faster than any of you people. He's razor sharp. When he gives a shiur people half his age shoot questions at him often 2 or 3 people arguing at once and he deftly handles all of them. You don't begin to understand his greatness so how dare you mock him?

[A E ANDERSON]

I would issue my typical rejoinder and label Eliyashuv a fundamentalist cleric and fatwa issuer. Until I read his bio, that is, which reveals that the old codger will be 100 this April.

As with Rebbe Schneerson and other once-vital and once-coherent rabbis, I think old age has set in, and its time to find the fellow a nice, quiet bed in a rest home.

It's obvious he's off the deep end. If his family and supporters really cared about him, they'd ease him into a happy retirement for everybody's benefit.

[who knows?]

Chief dufis, you are selective in following halachot, which makes you Reform (whether you define yourself reform or not). However your way of thinking is decidedly haredi and illogical.

You say:
"I don't think that R' Eliashiv is trying to do something evil, and while many of us, who observe Taharat Hamishpacha, may ignore his p'sak, few of us have the educational background to dispute it."
If you can not "dispute" his ruling, how in the world you can "ignore" it?

You also say:
"Find yourself a religious leader, and follow his decisions." How can you "find yourself religious leader" if you "have no education background" to judge who among the leader wannabees is right?

Remember, if you follow a wrong leader you are going straight to hell! Who is going to make a decision for you? And if you are able to make this crucial decision, then why not a smaller one about braces?

[who knows?]

Big Jew, you write "In fact Rav Elyashiv at 99 years old can process things many times faster than any of you people."

Is that a fact or your opinion? Have you measured how fast any of the talkbackers, let alone all of them process information? Did you compare their processing speeds with that of Rav Elyashiv? I think not.

Note that this is the value of every statement that you've made so far. You throw around opinions and present them as facts. This is dishonest.

[Bill]

Dental braces have been around for thousands of years.

Why has he been holding this brain fart in for so long?

[James Dean]

When I see it in writing with his signature and two witnesses corroborating the signature then I will believe that he said this.

Likely some idiot when and asked him a question in a way that he could not say yes. We've seen this before.

This is yellow journalism at it's finest. I am sure the YNET reporter did not speak with R' Elyashiv to find out if it is true or not.

[maven]

By his reasoning, patients with cardiac stents would be prohibited from using the mikvah.

[Jack Ass]

It isn't the braces per say that is problematic. It is the radio signals they pick up in the mikva. A secondary reason to disallow it is that a blow job with braces is too good.

[DK]

WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE TO QUESTION THE GODOL HADOR?!?

[Norm]

What's the rule on contact lenses-or lense implants?

[forty eighter]

1) Many things have been said in the name of Reb Elyashev recently, but there is now way to verify it. there have been instances where his son-in-law claimed something in his name, but it turned out he never said it.

2) This issue has been around for many years, and has been debated an nausium.

3) Responsible parents attend to their children's orthodontic needs when they are still teenager, so this issue is moot.

4) For those who need to attend to their teeth as adults, I highly recommend Invisalign. It is invisible, removeable and much more attractive for a married adult (male or female).

[Betzalel]

It's amazing how so many people have an opinion on the rabbi's opinion without even reading what the rabbi said, but believing everything ynet says.

Isn't it possible that ynet got it wrong?

[danny]

Chief Doofus: "Find yourself a religious leader, and follow his decisions. Ad hominem attacks are uncalled for."

I have a problem putting my religious beliefs and daily behavior in the hands of any single clergyman. Every human being has a full menu of failings. And everyone is literally and figuratively "full of it".

I reserve the right to pick and choose bits of wisdom from multiple learned sources, but in no way will I ever become a follower of any single rabbi, yeshiva, sect, etc.

I'm very interested in the idea of an online yeshiva, oriented towards free thinkers, rebels, etc. I like the idea of an online discussion groups that focuses on a reading, without devolving into the typical internet grudge matches.

[Big Jew]

Who knows:
I know of plenty of learned people who spoke to him in learning and I witnessed his shiur first hand. Its incredible how on the ball he is. Torah keeps the mind sharp.

I attended Rav Shmuel Berenbaums ZT"L shiurim when he was well into his 80's he wiped the floor with people of all ages. His mind was clear sharp and fast. He was much sharper then the students in their low 20s many of them very bright as well.

The fact is whether anyone wants to agree with their psakim or not the Senior Gedolim of Eretz Yisroel are of sound mind and quite sharp. If any of them became senile the word would get out faster than you can imagine.

[Yochanan Lavie]

This screams for a parody, but I can't think of one. Elyashiv doesn't care about crooked teeth because he never smiles.

[Yochanan Lavie]

This screams for a parody, but I can't think of one. Elyashiv doesn't care about crooked teeth because he never smiles.

[Bill]

BJ,

You are forever only as credible as your comment about the Vilna Goan an another post.

Prove it!

ISBN "number" of his book on mathematics?

What were his discoveries on ophthalmology that predate what "Drs." knew by 150 years?

[Yosef ben Matitya]

"In fact Rav Elyashiv at 99 years old can process things many times faster than any of you people."

ooooooo, yes!
i think though that he is not as fast as an as400 (amall to medium enterprises ibm system). the advantage of the as400, he doesn't inflict misery on people.
i can't believe the number of people who stand for this guy; he wouldn't even let u sit @ the pc to defend him, for heaven's sake. yiikes!

[Yosef ben Matitya]

"In fact Rav Elyashiv at 99 years old can process things many times faster than any of you people."

ooooooo, yes!
i think though that he is not as fast as an as400 (amall to medium enterprises ibm system). the advantage of the as400, he doesn't inflict misery on people.
i can't believe the number of people who stand for this guy; he wouldn't even let u sit @ the pc to defend him, for heaven's sake. yiikes!

[Big Jew]

Bill:
When the Vilna Gaon was 12 years old he wrote a math book called Ayil Meshulash. Incidentally he wrote it while in the bathroom because one is not allowed to think Torah thoughts in the bathroom.

As for the thing about the eyes, I read that in a biography of his life. I don't recall all the details sorry.

[Shmarya]

When the Vilna Gaon was 12 years old he wrote a math book called Ayil Meshulash. Incidentally he wrote it while in the bathroom because one is not allowed to think Torah thoughts in the bathroom.

That's a fairy tale.

He wrote the book and probably did some of the thinking related to it in the latrine / outhouse. But he did not write the book there.

[critical minyan]

what about dental plaque? what about anal hair? what about dingleberries? what is rabbi elyashiv's opinion about that?

[Bill]

BJ,

Facts, please.

Not "gedoylim" stories.

[Big Jew]

FOR THE RECORD
Rav Moshe in igros moshe Yoreh Deah Chelek Aleph Tshuvah 97 paskens that it is NOT a chatzizah.
There is a big machlokes about this issue.
Personally I doubt Rav Elyashiv actually said this as there are people who say things in his name that he never said. Unless he prints a Teshuvah I won't accept that he said this. Regardless of that fact everyone should do what their personal Rav paskens. (Yes that means one should have a qualified Rav to ask their Halachic Shailos to.)

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

Rabbi Elyashiv needs to get laid.

Vegas might be a good destination for him.

[simon]

Sounds like another one of his paskin that he will have to backtrack or modify just like he did with the elevator decision. Too impractical of a ruling to stick without some modifications. A possible modification could be that in the future one should use removable braces, but if you already have permanent ones then one can go to the mikvah.

[Bill]

BJ

It's not even a "math" book.

Google books describes it as an 82 page pamphlet.

It was published in 1833, and contains a regurgitation in Hebrew of high-school level geometry.

See,
http://books.google.com/books?id=LeVDAAAAYAAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s

[red]

What about breast implants?

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

This old man needs 24 hour supervision
in a skilled Nursing Home.

Maybe assisted living if he can wipe his butt.

[red]

One thing more .His extreme old age would bar him from serving on the Sanhedrin.So why do people take his psaks seriously?I will offer a reward to anybody who can provide a photo of him smiling.

[Big Jew]

Bill
What were you or anyone else publishing at 12 years old? Keep in mind he did this with a few spare minutes here and there as a 12 year old. He was learning Torah almost every second of his day. I never heard of any Jewish or non Jewish famous professor or scientist that did anything like that at such a young age even without spending most of the time learning Torah.

[effie]

"In fact Rav Elyashiv at 99 years old can process things many times faster than any of you people."

His mind is like an abacus in a world of super-computers.

[effie]

"He wrote the book and probably did some of the thinking related to it in the latrine / outhouse. by: Shmarya"

Who doesn't do some of their best thinking there?

[Big Jew]

Effie
You saying that about Rav Elyashiv is the same as me saying that about you. Do you know him? Have you spoken to him?
Barf.

[Bill]

"Keep in mind he did this with a few spare minutes here and there as a 12 year old." BJ

BJ,

The pamphlet was published in 1833, not when the Gaon was twelve, but 30 years after he died.

He apparently wrote up an 82 page pamphlet about high school level Euclidian geometry-the substance of which was well-know for more than a thousand years-at some point in his life.

That's it.

You wrote, "It is Documented that the Vilna Gaon who lived in the 1700 was expert in math, astronomy, physics....the leading professors of his time had a question for years that nobody could answer and he knew the answer in minutes!!! Furthermore he wrote a book on math and he was well versed in anatomy. He knew things about the eyes that Dr's didn't learn for another 150 years after his death!!!"

Prove it!

[chabadnik attorney]

1. Thanks Big Jew for citing the Igros Moshe (hopefully accurately). It made no sense that this was a new issue.

2. I have no particular reason to be a fan of R. Eliyashiv and don't particularly believe that ones intellectual prowess or Torah knowledge alone makes them a "Gadol". Ones charachter is far more important.

3. Those arguing against his psak (whether right or wrong) but who have zero or little Torah knowledge and even worse despise Torah are vile imbeciles.

[who knows?]

BJ,
1) there is no proof that Vilno Gaon wrote the math book at 12. It is more likely that he wrote it some time later in his life.
2) There is no great mathematical discoveries in the book
3) Gaon did not write it in the outhouse as you insist (think of impossible logistics)
4) Gaon did think on issues other then Torah even outside latrine and this book is a proof of it.
5) It is likely that the legend about 12 years Gaon writing a math book was developed by haredi types to show that he was under bar mitzva age and had he been above it he would not spend a minute on secular knowledge.

[Big Jew]

Bill:
I can only tell you what I read. Pick up a biography of the vilna Gaon and read it yourself.

[Big Jew]

Bill:
I can only tell you what I read. Pick up a biography of the vilna Gaon and read it yourself.

[maven]

BJ: he did not write it as a 12 year old, who know's statement is correct.
This is not to knock the Gra, who was a worthy individual on many fronts, but his summarizing of Euclidean geometry was not an important text. However, its very clear that had he lived in today's world he would have been attacked by the chareidi world. He tore out whole pages of accepted text as incorrect, including chunks of bavli and yerushalmi, revised the siddur (we discussed that just a few days ago in a different thread), etc.
I don't quite get what the Gra has to do with this novel psak of R. Elyashiv. Certainly anyone on the inside gets the feeling he's been issuing a series of "no" psakim lately. One can't help wondering if its his age or politics that's driving these rather extreme responsa.

[ShloMoney]

Well @ least this would cut down on young tweens getting married .

[chabadnik attorney]

1. Looking around the web just about everyone seems to be dumbfounded by such a Psak.

2. I looked at several orthodox "ask the Rabbi" type websites where people asked the question and were answered that the braces are not an interposition for purposes of mikveh.

3. I wonder what my fellow Lubavitchers hold?

[effie]

Big Jew: Keep your barf to yourself. I'm not the one who banned elevators, crocs, the Knesset, contacts, and now braces. It is clear that the man is senile. It is not his fault that he is senile. But, what is your excuse for refusing to acknowledge it?

[william e emba]

When the Vilna Gaon was 12 years old he wrote a math book called Ayil Meshulash. Incidentally he wrote it while in the bathroom because one is not allowed to think Torah thoughts in the bathroom.

That's a fairy tale.

Correct. The sefer was only published several decades after he died. There is absolutely no knowledge of when or where he wrote it. Indeed, it's not actually certain that the Gaon in fact wrote it.

I have a hard time believing he wrote it in the bathroom. About half of it is negayah the Rambam's Hilchos Kiddush ha-Chodesh. The last perek is about permutations of kabbalistic interest.

I've always assumed the "bathroom" story was invented by people too dumb to do the math. In my experience, it's only repeated by people too dumb to do the math.

Oddly enough, these people are also quite certain that the Gaon is the Cramer of "Cramer's Rule". The idea that Cramer was his last name is another fairy tale, let alone the fact that we get the rule from one Gabriel Cramer.

[Ybother]

I'm assuming you wrote the article and comments after having spent many years of learning the particular Halachot in question. You've also received Semicha from several world-renowned Talmidei Chacomim, and have spent your life devoted to study.

Only if you've done this, can you even begin to entertain the thought to describe Rav Elyashiv as "foolish".

You may not agree with him, (again, assuming you actually know the subject matter), or you may go to a different Rav. But your arrogance and Chutzpah is simply astounding.

[Ybother]

I'm assuming you wrote the article and comments after having spent many years of learning the particular Halachot in question. You've also received Semicha from several world-renowned Talmidei Chacomim, and have spent your life devoted to study.

Only if you've done this, can you even begin to entertain the thought to describe Rav Elyashiv as "foolish".

You may not agree with him, (again, assuming you actually know the subject matter), or you may go to a different Rav. But your arrogance and Chutzpah is simply astounding.

[Shmarya]

ybother –

Please.

The man has issued a series of machmir insane pesak dinim that do not hold up to any examination.

These are for the most part political rulings meant to hurt his political opposition.

None of them are followed in any widespread manner; some are no longer in force at all. (Think Indian hair wigs.)

Rabbi Elyashiv has a long history of abusive political rulings. His fundamental pettiness and vindictiveness is clearer as he became very old, because he now seems to lack the mental acuity to mask his behavior.

He's a gadol because sheep like you made him one. You own his evil, so to speak.

[Izzy]

The reponses of most of the commenters here are quite telling. Most clearly have very little knowlege of, or respect for halacha.
Here is an article on Chatiza from the Yoatzot (not a charedi org)website.

According to Torah law, a barrier (chatzitzah) invalidates a woman's immersion in the mikveh when it meets two conditions: (1) it covers the majority of her body;
(2) she minds its presence – that is, it is a substance that she considers foreign and plans ultimately to remove.
The rabbis decreed, however, that a substance meeting only one of these conditions (either it covers the majority of her body or she minds its presence) also invalidates the immersion.
Thus, in practice, a barrier of any size is considered a chatzitzah if it is destined to be removed. Even when the woman does not mind the barrier's presence while she is immersing, if she would normally remove it at some other time (e.g., a ring that she removes only when kneading dough) it is a chatzitzah. Furthermore, if most women would be particular about an item, then it is considered a chatzitzah even for an individual who does not mind its presence.
Every attempt should therefore be made to remove even minute amounts of foreign material before immersing. If, however, a barrier is inconvenient, difficult or impossible to remove, then a rabbi should be asked whether the item is actually a chatzitzah. Some examples are:
1. The foreign material has a medical role (e. g., stitches).
2. Its removal would be dangerous.
3. It serves a cosmetic purpose (e. g., hair color).
4. It is permanently attached to her body.
In such situations consultation is essential. A woman should never assume on her own that foreign material is inconsequential, and risk an invalid immersion, but neither should she take it for granted that it is indeed a chatzitzah, and perhaps needlessly delay immersing in the mikveh.

Here is a Q&A related specifically to braces:

Brace on teeth
I have a tooth which is very crooked and my dentist says he can straighten it if I wear a brace on my top teeth for a period of about 9 months. The brace would stay in for all that time (i.e. it isn't removed at all and only the dentist could remove it if it got too uncomfortable) As far as I understand it, it would be attached to my teeth and about once every 3 weeks would be adjusted as necessary. Is there a problem with chatzitzah here?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear questioner,
Thank you for your question.

Assuming that your crooked tooth is bothering you (and not just your dentist), then there is room to permit the wearing of braces. This is easier to permit if the misalignment is affecting the function of your bite or leading to any pain.
An item that is in place for a medical indication and is left there for a prolonged time period is not a chatzitzah. Nine months fits into this definition. The fact that it can only be removed professionally also adds to its not being considered a chatzitzah.
If permitted, you need to clean it well, remove any temporary parts, and make sure it is in place and properly maintained prior to immersion. It would be best to insert after mikveh immersion so that any irritation has resolved before the next time you need to use the mikveh. You would have it inserted shortly after a mikveh immersion and would consult a rav prior to scheduling its ultimate removal.

[TuthDoc]

Okay, here are a few things the sharp-witted Rabbi who, according to some here who mistake Rabbis for God Himself, appears to have ignored:

Braces, by straightening teeth, protect people from damaged jaws, damaged teeth and most importantly: gum disease.

Periodontal (gum) disease has been clearly and verifiably linked to:
heart disease
stroke
diabetes
osteoporosis
colon cancer
prostate cancer (obviously not an issue on women)
low birthweight infants.

So if these women are not allowed to have braces, there are serious issues of pikuach nefesh as a result.

[Bill]

Izzy,

Read my post at the top of this string from an "ask the rabbi" type website.

It says that a woman should soak her infectious Herpes zoster ("shingles") blisters in warm water before going into the mikvah so as to soften them up to avoid chazzizah ("barrier") to dipping in the mikvah.

This stuff is revolting.

[WoolSilkCotton]

So that's what 12 year old rabbi-types are doing when they're locked in the bathroom. Creating scientific masterpieces.

[Big Jew]

Effie:
Don't believe everything stated in the name of Rav Elyashiv. Many times he will issue a psak for an individual that has no bearing on anyone else. In addition, often his psakim are misrepresented by those disseminating them for their own political or other agendas.
If he doesn't write a Halachic Responsa on an issue don't believe he said it. You can always ask your Rav for confirmation.

[chabadnik attorney]

WSC, you are hilarious.

[william e emba]

I can only tell you what I read. Pick up a biography of the vilna Gaon and read it yourself.

Did it ever occur to you that the biography might have been propaganda? Did it give a source for the 12-year-old-in-the-bathroom story?

Ayil Meshulash is more than a "pamphlet". It is mostly an elementary introduction to spherical trigonometry.

[chabadnik attorney]

WSC, we may never know what young prodigious students of Torah are doing in the bathroom but we certainly know what the Halachic detractors commenting here were doing and it def wasn't learning Halacha.

[simon]

So if these women are not allowed to have braces, there are serious issues of pikuach nefesh as a result

There are removable braces available so there is no issue of pikuach nefesh. However it is mishugas to have someone go through the pain and expense of removing a preexisting set of braces for a new one. I still feel that some form of a backtracking will be forthcoming.

[chabadnik attorney]

The removable braces may not be affordable.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Chabadnik Attorney, some of us do not live lifestyles bound by halacha, but appreciate its venerated historic significance. We would also like to think that a true, proper, erliche approach to life based upon thoughtful application of halacha would enhance oneself as well as the greater good of mankind. Unfortunately nowadays, we see few examples of people who have successfully achieved such a state.

When I read postings here in which grown adults believe that a rabbi of generations ago did his best work while sitting on the can, or that a 99 year old man still retains the full perspicacity of people a fraction of his age, and those people are the ones defending halacha here, their credibility goes begging.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Not every person who needs braces is a candidate for the removable type.

[critical minyan]

until this situation is resolved, I will not sleep with any married charedi women with braces.
you can't be too careful when it comes to halacha.

[critical minyan]

until this situation is resolved, I will not sleep with any married charedi women with braces.
you can't be too careful when it comes to halacha.

[alternative childcare]

I lost track of this thread. 12 year old boys doing bathroom geometry with 99 year old women wearing braces?
Sounds like a warped game of twister to me :)

[Althelion]

"what about dingleberries?"

Indeed, Critical Minyan! I would like to ask a shyla to the great rav elyashiv, shlita, about dingleberries. The great rav may posek: It depends if the berry was acquired intentionally or by accident. Also, since most dingleberries are unnoticed by their hosts, their purity may be preserved were the berry to be plucked within a short time either before or after immersion.

In any event, the rav would continue, the permissibility of a rim job would be not be considered until after the dingleberry was harvested and an additional toivel had taken place.

[Sarah K]

Question for Elyashiv: if a man goes to the mikvah before Shabbos but has a Prince Albert does that make his immersion not valid?

[Chayim]

Most of you bloggers are self hating pathetic jews. You are just envious of the chareidi communitys success in all aspects. So you mock religious ideas but when it comes to disgusting secular supported homosexual behavior you classify it as noble thing.You are all brainwashed by liberal media rags like the ny times and company. Soon when these publications start the next step of calling for marriages between fathers and daughters and mothers and sons,it wont take long for monkey sees and monkey does. And that will be followed by pet dogs and cats having sex with their lovely pet owners. Watch and see. If you tolerate this evil than it shows how sick and whacky you bloogers are.

[Simcha]

What about dental fillings, dental crowns, permanent dental bridges, cochlear implants, artificial lenses after cataracts...,? Thank G-d I have broken loose from the Orthodox label and the control of the current Rabbis. Feh !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Izzy]

Wow, I never realized how anti-halacha the readership of this blog is. A rabbi issues a psak that appears to be well within the bounds of normative halacha (Shmarya's opinion on the matter notwithstanding), and each comment is more derisive then the next.

[Shmarya]

If you'd learned teshuvot, Izzy, you probably wouldn't say that.

RYSE is way outside the bounds of normal halakha, even for Litvish Israeli haredim. Look at the teshuvot of the Tzitz Eliezer or Rabbi Shlomo Zalaman Auerbach and you'll see that.

[danny]

To Chayim.

You are the one who brought up the subject of bestiality and incest. This thread has been a mostly civil exchange of ideas and opinions.

So who among us has the sick mind, to bring up bestiality and incest out of nowhere? Who spends time thinking about these things?

[Abracadabra]

Danny wrote:
"I'm very interested in the idea of an online yeshiva, oriented towards free thinkers, rebels, etc. I like the idea of an online discussion groups that focuses on a reading, without devolving into the typical internet grudge matches."

Danny - go to Rabbi Natan Slifkin's site called "Rationalist Judaism" you might find a lot there that you like. Try to convince him to start an Online Yeshiva like you described. It's a great idea and he would be perfect for that sort of thing. I would join and pay whatever the tuition would be. It's a GREAT idea! When you DO get it going - please get Shmarya to put up a post about it here so that we know about it. Thanks!

[A. Nuran]

E. Anderson, the Muslims are saner about their fatwas than we Jews are about our rabbinical decrees. G-d's own truth.

A fatwa is a legal opinion pure and simple. Anyone can issue one. The only authority it has is the degree of credibility it has within the community. It's a purely human opinion which can be ignored if people believe it is nonsense. If enough people belive it you might be killed for heresy, but even then they are explicit about saying that G-d, not man, is the final judge.

But we have painted ourselves into a corner crowded with idols. Sages and rabis aren't just respected. We're supposed to treat their pronoucements just as if they came from the Almighty. Human opinions are "Torah". Mere fallible men are treated as if they were G-d. And if we don't believe this we are aporikosim. Hashem doesn't have to agree. By disagreeing with some greybeard with a black hat we have automagicaly forced the Master of the Universe to reject us.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is about as disgusting a form of blasphemy as I've heard since Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, the doctrine that Hashem himself must obey the dictates of the Priest.

[Izzy]

Shmarya,

You never cease to amaze me with your ability to extrapolate my experience/knowlege of halacha based on my comments here. Are you comparing RYSE to RSZA and the Tzitz Eliezer in general, or specific to this issue? If specific to this issue, what are the cites? If in general, I did not comment on his general halchic stance, but this specific pask (which you referred to as "foolish"). Yoatzot, which relies on the psak of R' Yehuda Henkin (certainly no Charedi), did not seem to think the issue was as cut-and-dried as you present it.

[Shlomo]

Many Poskim appear to agree if the dental appliance is fixed to the teeth for more than 30 days (or 7 days) it is not considered a chatzitzah think of temporary crowns which are not uncommon among adult women.
CA removable orthodontic appliances are often not suitable to correct many malocclusions

[Shmarya]

I'm referring to the overall theory of pesak.

RSZA and the TE have great concern for how pesakim will impact Jews. Will they create a heavy burden? Cause pain and suffering? Impoverish people? Impede proper medical care? Etc.

RYSE shows none of those concerns.

[Izzy]

What about this specific pask? The "foolish" one? Your post suggested it was way out of bounds.