Letter from London: The Orthodox Community's "Devastating Secret"

Like the Roman Catholics in Ireland and the USA before them, Orthodox Jewish parents cannot help but start to question the absolute trust they place in their untouchable religious leaders and teachers.

Sexual abuse: the Orthodox Jewish community's devastating secret
By Julian Kossoff • Daily Telegraph

Two days after his wedding, Mordechai Borger, 24, an Orthodox Jew, left his bride sleeping in their Brooklyn hotel room, went out onto the seventh floor balcony and leapt to his death.

The New York Post reported that this deeply pious young man was tormented by memories of being molested as a teenager at a yeshiva (an all-male religious college) and had killed himself after confessing to his new wife (who, incidentally, had been introduced by a “matchmaker”) that the mental scars made a physical relationship with her deeply problematic.

It ended a year in which a trickle of disturbing cases of sexual abuse among Orthodox Jews in the US, England and Israel began to filter into the public domain. But the heat really turned up on the simmering scandal last week, when the Israeli Rabbi Mordechai “Motti” Elon was accused of abuse. The police are now investigating.

Far from being the rabbi of an obscure Hasidic sect, the charismatic Elon is a high-profile leader, educator and media personality, representing the more mainstream religious Zionists and former head of the renown HaKotel (Western Wall) Yeshiva. He comes from a family of high achievers in law, politics and academia that has drawn comparisons with the Kennedy clan.

Like the Roman Catholics in Ireland and the USA before them, Orthodox Jewish parents cannot help but start to question the absolute trust they place in their untouchable religious leaders and teachers.

The blogsphere is alive with claims that at many yeshivas – cut off from the outside world and where celibacy among the unwed is demanded – sexual predators are exploiting their power over impressionable boys and young men. To date, it appears that abusers have had a free run, thanks to the impenetrable conspiracy of silence.

Within the Orthodox Jewish world the power to crush the unpalatable truth is reinforced by the strongly held belief that the close-knit community is undermined dangerously by “lashon hara“ (evil tongue).

Victims are trapped by shame and the knowledge that to speak out that they, and their families, would become pariahs – marriage, study and work opportunities would be ruined – with the implicit threat that to go to the authorities could result in someone being condemned as a “moser” (a traitor).

As with the Roman Catholic hierarchy, the mechanism to preserve a wholesome public image has meant abusers and paedophiles have been protected, excused and shuffled from community to community.

But for the victims some measures are finally being developed that may ease their terrible torment and offer them justice. Indeed, Rabbi Elon’s alleged crimes were exposed by Takana, a religious Zionist forum working against sexual misconduct by rabbis and teachers. Its role is allow the victims to report their abuse within the comfort zone of the community itself and not have to face the consequences alone.

In Brooklyn, New York, home of the largest Orthodox Jewish community outside Israel, a recently founded team of prosecutors, counsellors and religious leaders is working to combat sexual abuse, and there are 25 cases currently being investigated by the District Attorney – up from virtually zero.

But few believe this is anything but the tip of an iceberg which will move heaven and earth to avoid being cracked, and for Mordechai Borger it remains too little, too late.

[Hat Tip: Michelle.]

Comments

[Bill]

Sexual intercourse with small children is permissible under hareidi halacha.

They have yet to ban it, let alone "investigate" it.

[yudel]

here is the deal....remember clearly victims only have the right to speak up and fight their predators not the press. The ethics are clear -you cannot double rape people who had managed to get away and live a sanctified life and do not want to face people of immense power, money and family in a court room. They have kids , jobs et al.
Maybe someday the many and the number is large if not huge in Golders Green or Manchester will have the indictments given .

Stiff upper lip is more than steel. You can all sit here and ponder and say why be quiet?

OR i would do this or that? But you do not have kids or kids friends who went through this period.

Having said this New Scotland Yard should get to work and never ever overlook people in high places not just rabbis.

They though have no idea what to look for nor does the law provide protection to the victims.

The catholic church cases are totally different. You have lapsed catholics who come out hurt and angry.

A frum person gets cherem and shunning. Would loose their jobs, and a whole lot of other nasty things would come out.

You who read live in another world that cannot possibly understand the world of incest and abuse

So don't get up on your high horse and start spouting. This is very heavy business.

But if New Scotland Yard would begin looking into all shuls and all important people and i have no idea what or how they can legally do that they would hit a jackpot that pales the catholic church cause we are not very many.

but the laws as such make people in court targets. You think it is easy going after say your aba? Or a group of men all powerful.

A huge and largest bust of pedophiles in the world happened a couple of years back in the UK. All these groups are on the same spider web. Not necessarily trading films and pictures but they know of each other.

Hope that they stick to the investigation. They said a decade was needed to figure it all out.

And do not be naive. New Scotland Yard backs away from investigations as they can be shoved down by fear and orders on high.

so this small tragic article leads no where.

Even parents who know what happened to their kids are afraid to speak. You think some victims coming forward are going to go on breathimg?

Different milieu and no organized core of frum people with power stands behind a victim. Remember how easy here in the states it was to intimidate twerski. Who put lanner away certainly not the original complainants.

It is far worse in the UK. If you know someone with money in the UK and said person is in the middle of that world and hires a devastating good PI and works with new scotland yard something might break.

I doubt it though. It is only the victims who can speak even if police come up with something who is going to testify?

Answer no one cause there is no support period and no rabbi can be trusted period.

Same true here in the states. Never trust a Rav. They just write letters and nothing more.

And victims never will come near them. They have flapping lips and see this as some kind of ego hero thing and are not even trained nor have been trained to deal with abuse.

As good as survivors for justice might turn out to be they are just penny pinching no power nothings in this whole business.

The world is not ready to support these people unless one huge moneyed law suit in civil court is a big huge win.

But those who come out will be branded in spite of what people say. Who are you to even speak of such horror?
Answer all of you for the most part are good people but naive and have no power nor means nor organized effort to protect and put up real wall of protection so adult victims can come forward.

The only place you can get these people is in Israel because of the legal structure.

No need to reply . I do not come back to answer or read.

[harold]

Sexual intercourse with small children is permissible under hareidi halacha

That is news to me, where is that written?

[Bill]

Harold, it's not prohibited by Shulchan Aruch, Rambam or any hareidi halachic authority.

[critical minyan]

suicide or overdoses due to depression is probably the leading killer of young charedim and ex charedim.

[randomthought]

Bill,

In fairness I would suspect only because it's so obvious. It's CLEARLY in Tanakh, I believe such people are cursed in Devarim.

[Paul Freedman]

um, Bill, the charge that Orthodox Jewish leadership have institutionalized as a good thing the practice off sexual predation of children is unfortunate. Norms of family relationships, marriage, and marriage contracts do not include intercourse with children.

[Bill]

Random & Paul

Where specifically is it prohibited?

Paul,

I said nothing about "institutionalizing" sexual relationships with children.

I did say that it was never prohibited by hareidi Halacha.

Those are separate points.

[randomthought]

I have in mind Deuteronomy 27:15-26.

Prohibitions against 'lying with father's wife, beast, sister, mother-in-law' - so there is incest there.

I suppose it does not specifically say with children although there are curses against 'insulting one's father or mother, misdirecting a blind person (e.g. could be youth) along his way, and subverting the rights of the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow (e.g. again those in a vulnerable position).

As I understand it (and this may have been simply an author's thoughts) but one of the factors in the old hate of Hellenism was the penchant for pedophilia amongst that culture.

[randomthought]

I suppose that you could still make the argument that it was taboo even then and thus has had a niche to be swept under the rug across generations. (Ever wondered what happened to Freud? lol.. sorry.)

Still it's not my impression that sexual abuse is done with moral care - or at least I've not heard anyone come out and say "this is condoned by g-d."

[Bill]

Rondoms,

I wasn't talking about beasts, widows or insulting one's parents. I am not sure how that ever entered into the discussion.

Your overreading of a prohibition of sexual contact with children into general principles of biblical "fairness" is very subjective and vague.

[randomthought]

It's actually not that vague Bill. But you're a smart guy and could see that if you cared to.

Still, as I said, the actual specific prohibition was not where I referred you to.

[randomthought]

http://qumran.com/AmYHWH/sinful_wicked_1-14-05.htm

This looks quite interesting.

[Rob Wisler]

There is a reference to pedophilic sex in meseches Shabbos, daf yud (I forget which amud).

[Bill]

"The actual specific prohibition was not where I refered you too." a Random

Random,

Please help me. Where is the "actual specific prohibition"?

[A E ANDERSON]

All sexual congress outside of marriage (hupah + kidushin) is prohibited under Orthodox and historically normative Judaism.

Judaism is traditionally so modest that only a rank anti-Semite could even suggest that Judaism condones acts of pederasty or sex with children. Even the inadvertent display of a body part normally covered (e.g., a thigh) is prohibited as immodest nakedness "ערוה."

In Judaism, accidental and inadvertent nocturnal emissions are considered sins, as is any emission of semen outside the marital bed (זרע לבטלה). This alone -- in addition to prohibitions governing specific acts -- would make child molestation into a grave sin, Judaically speaking.

The best English source for these matters remains Ganzfried's "Code of Jewish Law" (קש"ע). A cursory read will elicit the clear conclusion that molesting children is not only a grave sin, but almost unthinkable in the traditional Jewish mind. So to maintain there is any sort of textual basis for this perversion is on par with the other lunacies that anti-Semites lob at Jews from time to time: Holocaust denial, Blood libels, etc.

The anti-Semites like to point to texts that consider child marriage and betrothal (common in the ancient world) as representative of Judaism today. That's on par with saying that Christians burn witches, which is something they once did.

One might be able to raise a question, say, with regard to a 12 year old girl, who is considered an adult woman in Jewish tradition. But some US states have allowed marriage as early as 14, so while shocking to the contemporary mind,it is not historically unprecedented. Mind you, there is an obligation to comply with the secular law (דינא דמלכותא דינא). But again, that would only be with regard to marriage, not sex outside of it, as molestation clearly is.

Now, just because Judaism is traditionally modest, doesn't mean that the practices of Eros never found their way in through the back door (no pun intended). David Biale's Eros and the Jews is iconoclastic in this regard.

But as to "haredi halakha,' I don't think there is any way to maintain that the constituent acts of child molestation are not utterly prohibited under Biblical law, and necessarily "haredi halakha."

[effie]

I don't care who or what endorses sex or fails to prohibit sex with children. I don't need to be told or have some definitive authority telling me it's wrong. It is evil and against the law.

[SH]

Bill

Rambam & Shulchan Oruch state clearly that 'the Law of the Land is the Law'.

That is the halacha, both criminal & civil law of the country in which one lives applies, with the one provision that it is not specifically enacted against Jewish law, eg if the senate enacted a law that all Jews eat bread on pesach, halacha instructs to ignore it.

Therefore paedophilia, being a criminal act (in most countries), is against Torah Law, and one of the seven noachide laws is that non jews have to institute laws and legal systems to uphold them.

Jews should not prevent or interfere with non jews adhering to their seven commandments!

[Bill]

Anderson,

Can you please provide a specific reference and quote to the code o Jewish Law? Thanks!

SH,

by your logic, if not specifically banned by the
secular govenment, pedophelia would be permissible in Halacha?

Effie,

you don't need to be told. Others obviously do!

[SH]

A E ANDERSON

You wrote:
“All sexual congress outside of marriage (hupah + kidushin) is prohibited under Orthodox and historically normative Judaism.”

What about the pilegesh? No chupa, Kiddushin or kesuva.

Same with a shifcha, which Rabbi M Finestein in his Igrot Moshe suggested was the best solution for a mamzer!

A ‘common law’ wife is also considered a form of marriage, and requires a get to break the ‘marriage bonds’.

[Anon]

TEAR DOWN THE WALLS OF SILENCE
Case of Rabbi Baruch Lebovitz

WHEN: Thursday, Feb. 25, 2010 at 9:00 AM
WHERE: NY Supreme Court, Criminal Division
320 Jay Street, Brooklyn, NY

Rabbi Baruch Lebovitz's trial will begin. He's being tried on two counts of child sexual abuse. The trial is being heard before the Honorable Judge Chun, Part 20, 4th Floor

The survivors and their family members need your support.

[SH]

Bill

Paedophilia as we understand it, as child abuse , would not be sanctioned, but marriage to a young girl would be ok.

Any sexual association between two males, ie paedophilia with a boy is expressly forbidden in Leviticus ch20 v13 which is read at the afternoon service on Yom Kippur, together with a list of the forbidden incestuous relationships.

It is very interesting that this subject is read on the holiest day of the Jewish year, maybe to illustrate that even the ‘holiest’ people can fall to such deprivative depths.

[Bill]

SH,

Leviticus prohibits "laying with a male as one would lay with a female," that is interpreted by the rabbis as penile-anal penetration.

Sexual exploitation of minors is much broader than that.

[WoolSilkCotton]

++effie | February 23, 2010 at 11:58 AM++

The orthodox feel quite differently.

If something is not specifically prohibited in the Torah, as interpreted by the 'rabbis' and 'leaders' whom they consider to be infallible authorities, then it is not wrong.

Today's orthodox rabbis send a clear message than pedophilia will not be sanctioned by the religious leadership of the community. Indeed, the victims will be castigated for complaining.

What a perversion they have made of the Torah.

[Paul Freedman]

Bill--torah prohibits obversely by outlining sexual relations that *are permitted* and in detail. Torah does not specifically prohibit leaving a dog bad filled with feces at your doorstep, lighting a candle inside it, yelling fire, and pushing your doorbell. That does not mean Torah condones it, permits it, and encourages it--& if you are not stating that this is encouraged it then their is no point that is being made.

[Paul Freedman]

WSC: applies to your observation too. The observation that Orthodox not only overlook but enable, not only enable but sanction and not only sanction but actively pursue is beyond leshon hara.

[WoolSilkCotton]

My use of 'sanction' above is as in 'penalize' or 'deter'.

The word sanction is confusing because it has two meanings that are almost opposite.

[Bill]

"The Torah prohibits obversely by outlining sexual relations that are permitted - and in detail." - Paul

Wrong,

The Torah, in leviticus and elsewhere, provides lists and lists of prohibited sexual acts.

Pedophelia is not one of them, and neither is it as relatively-inconsequential as leaving feces at someone's doorstep - as you seem to imply.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Paul, much of orthodox 'scholarship' is based upon dissecting each word and letter of the Scripture, often in search for loopholes, and often with the conclusion that if it's not expressly prohibited, then it's probably ok.

Unlike the rest of civilized society, where an obviously inappropriate and repugnant behavior (such as child molesting) is intuitively regarded as wrong, the orthodox need everything explicitly spelled out for them, otherwise it's not considered necessarily prohibited. Sad but true. The sure sign of a backward people.

[Big Jew]

Bill:
I would think its safe to say that if the Torah says don't do something it should be common sense that one should avoid actions that lead up to doing it!

If its not permitted to have sex with your sister then its obviously also not permitted to fondle her breasts. If its asur to have homosexual intercourse its asur to touch a males penis or touch him in a sexual way.
You don't need tol be particularly bright to understand this.

[Bill]

BJ,

Obviously your "common sense" approach hasn't worked for the haredi community - which is teaming with pedophiles and abusers.

[zach]

Bill - that is a far cry from your initial assertion that "Sexual intercourse with small children is permissible under hareidi halacha."

[Bill]

zach,

My statements are not mutually exclusive. I'm not sure
what your point is in this regard.

[HaNavon]

keep in mind that the ultra orthodox rabbi chaim pinchas scheinberg, one of the leaders in the hierarchy, issued his 'psak', or edict, that you cannot call the police on someone who molested a child if there was no penetration!
i wonder what he would say if it was one of his grandchildren...

[Pessie Gelb]

Charaidim live in a society where homosexuals wouldnt be caught dead going to a gay bathouse or gay bar or even looking for a gay partner on the internet, and heterosexuals wouldnt be caught dead going to a prostitute. Because of this fear of getting caught in the act of trying to fullfill their kinky sexual urges with consenting adults, they instead pick on innocent children who they hope will never realize what is being done to them when they are raped by these sex perverts who are scared to come out of the closet and sin with consenting adults out of fear that their sins will get found out about.
All we need is for 2 kosher witnesses to enter a mikve room and witness this homosexual child rape and stone to death the homosexual rapist and maybe then the homosexual perverts will realize that they are safer commiting their perverted sins with consenting adults.

[chaim]

why are you all bothering with this criminaly insane human garbage, Bill,who obviously is either an outright gentile nazi-antisemite
or a self hating jewish antisemite,don't you think he knows pretty well that pedophilia is absolutely forbiden according to jewish law

[Bill]

Chaim,

This string is 36 comments long, and still not one halachic citation that prohibits child molestation.

So far we have "quotes" from Deuteronomy and the Code of Jewish law that do not exist, a reference to secular law, references to cursing parents and sex with animals, topped by a very strange "extrapolation" from homosexual intercourse to all forms of child sexual activity (including male against female, etc.)

You say it is so? Then prove it.

[just me]

Because of this fear of getting caught in the act of trying to fullfill their kinky sexual urges with consenting adults, they instead pick on innocent children

pessie, are you suggesting pedophiles are molesting children merely because the act of finding consenting adults is too difficult. is this your hunch or is it supported by any studies.

[Jack Ass]

A story seldom retold from Tanach records the sordid bit of to half siblings of the royal Davidic blood where the brother came unto the sister by force. Can anyone give an opinion if that story has bearing on the query set forth by Bill? I, as a chareidi victim of molestation who chose to remain within the chareidi world, beleive Bill's question is sincere though his assertation that Orthodox Jewry approves of said activity is an exaggeration borne of pain and frustration. Bill, when I had a similar discussion with a very sincere and intellegant chassid he was stumped at first but after some hours of thought suggested that "Kedoshim Teeyo" and similar statements would preclude pedophilia as anything but acceptable. Onais U'mefatte deffinately encludes the molestation of a minor, contrary to what penis Scheinberg would have u beleive. No doubt about it, molestation = rape, and to say otherwise is insane!

[Simon Rose]

This is deeply saddening stuff.

My heart goes out to all the people molested by these so called religious people.

What a shame young people need to go through that hell.

Hashem needs to stand up for these people and the offenders have to go the sheol.

[Bill]

JA,

I am really sorry and saddened to hear about what you've suffered through.

The issue here is not whether Orthodox Jewry as a whole approve or disapprove of sex with children. My point is and was that there is no prohibition in Halacha against it - a fact that I am sure has not gone unnoticed by at least some of the Haredi child molesters.

You're extrapolation from the very vague edict of Kedoshim Te'hiyu ("Thou shall be holy") only proves my point. It can mean almost anything
you want it to mean.

[Bilaam's Add]

Bill is correct. This is a great example where Halakha has been frozen p/ Hatam Sofer. As a Masorti rabbi its time for the Amha to grow up and take greater responsability for Yahadus and give up the infantile 'gadol' fantasy and ditch much of reactionary haredism which is hurting most of Am Yisrael for the benefit of a few.

[shneerhere]

Yeah, sure, go prove a negative. By the way, what exactly is 'haredi Halacha'? Is that like Lakewood Halacha, or closer to YU Halacha? I'm familiear with West Rogers Park halacha, but not Betar Ilit....

Asinine logic, "bill". There is also no Halacha against screwing a tree, but I doubt you'd find that sanctioned by "haredi Halacha' either.

You're just a Hater.

[Big Jew]

Bill
I already answered your question but its like talking to the wall. If the Torah says you can't have homosexual male relations then that means you can't. No means no and that inludes any sort of male-male hanky panky. A young boy is a male is he not? So why should the torah have to repeat itself? NOBODY says that Pedophilia is mutar. Where did you get that from? Prove that Rabbanim think its muttar? I don't even think the Rabbis who are pedophiles think its mutar and if they do its because they had to delude themselves to deal with the guilt. Anyone who is a pedophile has a very morbid mental illness. They would have this illness whether they were a Rabbi, a Doctor or an accountant. Yes unfortunately some Rabbis are molesters it is sad and it makes it that much more complicated for the Rabbinate to do what needs to be done about it. Its a serious problem that only very recently is starting to be dealt with with the toughness it deserves.

[Bill]

shneer,

I am not asking you to prove a negative.

I am asserting a negative and challenging you to prove otherwise.

I am sure that you can discern the difference.

[shneerhere]

You're a $hit-stirrer. You know damm well haredi 'law' doesn't condone sexual abuse of children. You can hide behind your pseudo-intellectual pilpul and distract by arguing all you want... you just want to besmirch Haredis. We all know very well that abuse happens, way too many cases, we know all about coverups and such. You're just spreading hate and stirring $hit.

[Pessie Gelb]

Regarding the toire's position on child molestation, for a man to molest a boy is prohibited because for a man to lie with a male is not only prohibited but an abomination punishable by being stoned to death. For a man to molest his daughter is also biblically prohibited incest as is for a brother to molest his sister. If a man molests his virgin niece of cousin or any other virgin he is to be forced to marry her and he can never divorce her.
Child molestation is not specifically forbidden by the toire because the victim is a child, but all child molestation falls into the categories of various prohibited sexual acts and is therefore forbidden.

[Pessie Gelb]

Regarding the question why homosexuals molest boys instead of sin with adult men;
in more liberal societies where homosexual acts are not considered to be sins, most homosexuals commit their homosexual acts with adult men and only those who have perverted fanticies about doing it with boys even think about doing it with boys. But in religious societies where homosexual affairs are taboo, homosexuals settle for commiting their abhorrent abominations with boys, even though they would prefer to do these sins with adult men, because they are ashamed to be caught looking for an adult homosexual to sin with.
In more liberal societies heterosexual men look for girlfriends to sin with or look for married women to commit adultery with or just go to prostitutes. In religious societies men end up molesting their daughters because they are scared that they might get caught looking for a girlfriend or going to a prostitute.

[leto]

The point here is that there is a great likely hood of a child being sexually abused in a chardie cheder this is actually true as I know from what happened to my own children. The point is not that charedi halacha allows it but that it is accepted. I in fact met the world's greatest expert on making mikvaot and sat with him for a few hours going over his new book on mikvaot with him and my chavruta. When he discovered the sexual abuse in the frum world he was ostracized.
I know for a fact that what ever loathsome satanic behavior rabbis do they will always blame it on the victims.
Clearly something is wrong with Orthodox Judaism as it is understood and practiced today. This is not just a matter of random individuals that have some problem. There is a spirit the dark side in Orthodox Judaism today.
I want to say however I don't think this is from the Talmud. I don't think Orthodox Judaism represents accurately the Talmud or the rambam. I DONT BLAME THE PROBLEMS ON THE TALMUD OR HALACHA IN ITSELF. But clearly there is a deep set spiritual evil that is embedded in Orthodox Judaism today.

[Bill]

BJ,

You argued in an earlier post that a prohibition against pedophelia should be read into the prohibition agains male homosexual intercourse.

This is completey wrong-minded as explained above.

You now tell us that it is too "complicated" to deal with because it involves rabbis and you are, by implication, pleading for time and patience in this regard.

It's not" complicated." it's apologists like you who make it seem that way.

[Big Jew]

Bill
You didn't explain anything. Wrong minded? Apologist? Ok....You have an agenda. You don't want the the Truth and you obviously have something against the Torah. No G-d doesn't dance through hoops to please every imbecile. Its all in the Torah and someone who knows all the Halachos can connect dots and know that its clearly assur. Not only is pedophilia under the prohibition of homosexuality it also is against the spirit of the Torah. We as Jews cherish our young. The children are the future. There are numerous pesukim about education and teaching children and passing on G-ds teachings to the next generation. Its absurd to suggest the Torah allows endangering a child. You just have a bone to pick with G-d go ahead blaspheme G-d and his Torah you only hurt yourself.

[invisible hand]

I would like to point out the sloppy way the author of the Daily Telegraph piece conflates 'pederast' and 'gay.' I suspect Motti Elon is gay and very confused. I have seen nothing to make me suggest he is a pederast. He did take advantage of his rabbinic status and this is abuse in the same way that a psychotherapist who becomes sexually entangled with patients is abusive. I am not excusing this.
It is not the same, however, as being sexually attracted to children. Most pederasts are men preying on young girls, not gay men.

What does a gay man do if he lives in a world where it is not imaginable to be gay? He makes confused advances, and he looks for the 'secret handshake' that identifies another gay. Of course, a lot of gays don't recognize or accept they are gay. It may well be that the young men who came to Motti Elon for guidance were also gay, and Motti recognized this. Gay, Orthodox and very confused, all of them. We should not be surprised that the confused transgress, they can't figure out how to be themselves without transgressing and they can't see that one line is different from another. But the problem begins with the community's denial. Confusion is not the same as perversion.

Why did the psychiatric community decide that homosexuality was not a disease? Because there were many examples of homosexuals whose only symptom was their sexual preference. They worked productively. They were loyal friends. They participated fully in the life of their community. It was their sexual preference that led them into the 'twilight community.' (Yes, that was a term used in the fifties.)
Get rid of the stigma, their 'symptoms' go away. If Motti Elon and thousands of others could accept themselves and be accepted as who they are - frum gay men - they would find a way to live that did not include soliciting their students and that did not demean their partners.

Pederasty is different. A Rabbi drawn to 8 year old girls will never find a way to express his preferences that does not demean and objectify the object of his lust. The community needs to defend itself against predatory behavior, not accept it.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Numerous commenters on VIN state that what is considered 'moral' in secular society is of no concern to them. 'Moral' behavior is for goyem, unless that behavior is expressly stated in the Torah.
Orthodox Jews are only concerned with what is expressly stated in the Torah, as expounded by their rabbis, who are so learned and steeped in Torah that they are to be regarded as infallible.

Thus say the many religious folks on VIN. And if anyone here can please provide a clear Torah reference stating the age of consent for sex with a girl, as well as a clear reference prohibiting homoerotic behavior with male children, I would appreciate it.

Otherwise, we are all just stating that these behaviors are intuitively immoral based upon secular society's standards, and that just won't do for our holy brethren on VIN.

[Yosi]

invisible hand-- In a rush out the door, haven't read every word of comments here, but great point. In terms of making a discrepancy b/w homosexuality and pedophelia, it strikes me as strange that this Motty Elon issue is raising the child molestor issue. Anyone who has an inkling of the Hesder movement and the Mizrachi education system knows that Elon worked in yeshivas for boys generally over 18 (post high school). Elon may be abusing power and he may be a sexual predator, but his victims presumably (and a very fair assumption) were males of legal adult age, and if not at least post-pubescent with adult male bodies. I am NOT Gd forbid condoning, just trying to clarify.

[Big Jew]

WoolSilkCotton
You make a valid point however as learned as some of the posters here are none of us are Rabbis and just because we don't know an answer to what the Halacha is or where it says what doesn't make the issue decided. These questions are very important questions and need to be asked to a Rabbi. Just bear in mind that the age of consent that the Torah states may no longer be applicable in all cases as the world has changed much since then. Not to say that the Torah law wouldn't be binding, but that realistically one should go with the accepted norms of the culture they live in and of course obey the laws of the land. In Biblical times people got married as Ketanim under the age of 12 or at least the women got married at very young ages generally low teens. This practice has continued pretty much throught the centuries however I think in the 1800's the marriage age moved up by a few years and has steadily risen for the most part in Europe and the States.

[Bilaam's Ass]

With girls- Halakha is clear, its ok.

The Torah does not draw a distinction between a minor and an adult when it comes to sex in general
The Torah permits a father to marry off his young daughter (under the age of eleven and a half) to whomever he pleases. This law is learned from the verse "I gave my daughter to this man" (Deuteronomy 22:16). Thus did our forefather Isaac, at the age of 40, marry the three year old Rivkah. "And Isaac was forty years old when he took Rivka the daughter of Betuel" (Genesis 25:20); Rashi writes (ibid.) "He waited for her until she was fit for marital relations, [that is until she was] three years [old] and [then] he married her." So, too, does Halacha rule; until the age of three an infant is not fit for sex since her hymen would return, but after the age of three "an infant of three years and a day can be wed through intercourse" (Yevamot 57b).

[who knows?]

B.A. is this true? Is "wedding 3-year old through intercourse" just a weird story story in the Talmud or Rashi, or is it clear cut halaha?

[Bilaam's Ass]

Clear cut Halakha. Clause: This means she must be married through Huppah V'Kiddushin, you cant just 'take' her. Thought according to some, Biah k'kidushim, but that's another matter...
disclosure: conservative rabbi here-check the sources yourself.

[randomthought]

Are those brackets yours or Rashi's... ?

[who knows?]

B.A. thank you