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January 04, 2010

Hole In The Sheet: Sex Rules Of Gerrer Hasidim


ShtreimlExtreme sexual prudishness in the guise of hasidut.

Shearim writes about Sarah Einfeld, a former Gerrer hasid whose story has received quite a bit of attention in Israel:

Sarah Einfeld

…[As a child,] she always asked herself why her uncles would not even look at her. No one answered her questions and finally she found out that those are the modesty rules of the group. One day, at the age of 18, she came home from school and her mother told her that they found a Shidduch for her. She spoke to this Chassid for two hours and the next time she saw him was under the Chuppah [at her own wedding]. 

In her blog, she quotes some women who said that their wedding night was nothing but "rape". Chassidut Gur has wild sex Takanot and, among others, men and women only uncover the "necessary" body parts…

Basically you are going into bed with a person you do not even know. Here, she emphasizes, that it is the same (bad) experience for a man and a woman. 

"It was a total rape. I felt dirty and I wanted to push him down from my body"…

[For Gerrer hasidim] everything is determined [by the rebbe and group leadership] and so-called "Madrichim-Guides" even watch over everyone's sex lives.… 

Two years ago, I posted on some Gerrer sex rules as reported by an insider:

[G]errer men:

1) cannot show any affection towards their wives (chibuk v'neishuk [hugging and kissing]) even during intimacy
2) cannot be with their wife (outside of mikva night) unless they get permission from their "kommadent" (superior)
3) wives must walk in back of husbands
4) After giving birth wife cannot go to mikvah for 1/2 year [so the couple cannot have sex for those six months].

No Foreplay, No Affection, No Love: Sex And The Gerrer Hasid.

Previous Einfeld Posts: 1, 2.

Comments

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Even the Taliban and Puritans aren't that bad. These guys are completely pathological.

My niece married a Gerrer, and I can all but guarantee you they do not follow those rules.

There is a reason why most satmar chasidic women never smile; they are basically traumatized rape victims.

This is on the current Ger wikepedia site.A fiend sent me there last week,I believe he is a Ger chussid. Have not had a chance to ask him if this part is true.But he is a sort of different type of Chussid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ger_(Hasidic_dynasty)

[edit] Emphasis on purity and holiness
The Beis Yisrael put great emphasis on purity and holiness, and will always be remembered as the Rebbe who rebuilt Ger after the terrible destruction of World War II.

He left a great impression on many people from all walks of life, and was highly respected in all Haredi circles. His ideal was to elevate every person to somehow become one level higher than his present state. There are countless stories from individuals (Hasidim and non-Hasidim) who met the Rebbe, which relate how he had a tremendous spiritual impact on them and how this strong impression will never leave them. What makes this even more impressive is that many of these encounters with the Rebbe were for a very short period of time.

To instill holiness and purity in his chassidim, he instituted strict rules (takkanas) most of them which are still currently in effect. Strict oversight and interventions of young couples by a "Komandant" for at least the first year of marriage. Frequency and all other aspect of marital relations are strictly monitored. Strict rules are in effect even after the first year, including no Chibbuk Vnishuk even during relations, every other friday night and all other times the wife should be treated as Niddah (impure). (Many aspect of these takkanas have been greatly debated over the years, mainly the institutionalized secrecy and the practice that brides usually only find out the extent of the takkanas after their wedding. However it should be noted the Bais Yisrael felt that these steps where necessary for his chassidim in order to achieve higher levels of purity and holiness.)

I am not sure what the problem is with shidduchim done the Hassidishe way, in general.

I work with upper class Hindus. Almost everyone had their family choose their spouse for them. When asked about this, they answer they trust their family to make the right decision for them. Situations may be different for men and women, but both people are well-educated and accomplished.

oh yeh, th norrmal caveat about useing Wikepediaas a source.........

Why do I always have to look up words and phrases, e.g., Chibbuk Vnishuk. I can't even find a definition on the internet. I'll take a wild guess: foreplay?

Hugging and kissing.

I updated the post.

This only reinforces the opinion that Ger Hasid males are sexually and emotionally immature.

Essentially you have created a culture wherein rape is institutionalized and treatment on one's life partner is reduced from friend and lover to acquaintance and rape victim.

The practices described herein do not elevate the self to a holier and purer form, it creates an environment where participants, if in posession of a relatively normal psyche are reduced to lives of quiet desperation, or who in utter frustration may lash out at a child, or mate.

Shmarya: Thank you!

Effie, why would you make a comment complaining about Chassidiim using certain words you don't understand, but then you start using words they don't understand?

So to help them out, maybe you should explain the word "foreplay".

I heard a humerous joke about gerrer chassidim.

A gerrer chosid once told his friend that he saw that their mutual chavar's wife was walking next to her husband. His friend replied: Are you sure it was HIS wife ??

This is one sick chassidus !!

As i mentioned in a previous comment, the bais yakov of gur (ger) was established in brooklyn so the american boys would have someone to marry. Up until then, no one (including chassidishe girls) wanted to marry a gerrer boy.

Keep in mind that R' Avrohom Schorr is a rabid off the wall gerrer chossid personally recuited by the Bais Yisroel while he was learning in Brisk - Jerusalem.

He is in line to lead the agudah and the yeshiva world in a number of years.

If this is really how they go about their lives i really feel for the women.
Yes it might be a bad experience for the men, but i think it isn't as bad as it is for the woman and not as emotionally traumatising.
The women in this sect would be better off single or lesbian.

I have 2 questions:
1) Is this really "authentic Judaism"?

2) If it is then who wants to be a Jew?

Been there. Done that. All of us know our wedding night will be the beginning of the worst nights of our lives. Forever.

formerpostvillian: A picture is worth a thousand words. So, why don't you show them???

So Terribily Sad!

All Jokes Asides Very Sad!


I do mot believe that the ratio of boys to girls in gerrer households is about the same as in the rest of the charedi world.

This presents a theological problem for Ger

Either no one in Ger is following its draconian Takaanos or Ger chassidus is proving that the statement of the Chazal in the beginning Parshas Tazria is incorrect.

Vhamevin Yaviin.

They seem like revisionist, our torah tells us the rule for relations for husband and wife the rebbe sounds like a control nut & pervert..

HI Shmarya:

1) You used the wrong SHTREIMEL, the Gerrer wear "poilishe Shtreimlech" the tall "spodik" like ones.

2) Chibuk VeNishuk is in Halacha.

3) Gerrer women wear pretty thin stockings, compared to some other chasidim.

4) In Kotzk (predecessor of Ger) if someones wife gave birth to a girl, they gave him a "mashkanta" (beating while wrapped in a sheet or talit).

5) As much as the boys and yungeleit were "farfrimt", the the girls read all kind of novels.

"2) Chibuk VeNishuk is in Halacha."

Are you off your rocker?

This is total bs! Ima gerrer girl and my bros are very fafrumt and none of them behave that way..its not right to be so stereotyped..it could b one or 2 ppl in various chassidus r like that..and this guy obviously didn't have a normal chosson teacher...but its not right to talk that way about others!

It is common knowledge WITHIN the majority of Ger that the above described "sterile" marital relations is the ideal. Unfortunately they don't realize that it is with this that they have joined the Christians in considering sex as evil. Someone please tell me that these atitutes have no correlation to the amount of sodomy, incest and other sexual perversion so comonly found amongst the Gerrer.

I work with upper class Hindus. Almost everyone had their family choose their spouse for them. ..... but both people are well-educated and accomplished.

Said Jimmy the Greek.
And I say yippee, now we caught up finally with the Hindus.
Pretty soon, we can hopefully worship bovines too. (live ones I mean).
Well, sure beats worshipping the dead, may be! At least cows breathe!

There are many different types of chasidim in Ger. Some are super frum and some are a bit more "open minded".
The Israeli ones tend to be more fanatic than the American ones or those living elsewhere in the world.
Originally, these strict takanos were meant only for ten people close to the Rebbe, but everyone wanted to be holier than thou and they all joined without question.
I know many different Ger chasidim, they are closely related to me. Young couples do not ride in an elevator together, nor do they share the same bedroom on Shabos afternoon, one will sleep on a sofa in another room!
The ones in America are very modern, with some of the women literally not looking like they "belong" to their husbands.
I know plenty of good marriages, as well as plenty of awful ones that have been made only worse by these practices.
Some of the men get better after the first few years, but by then it is too late for some women, and they are unhappy, but don't want to get divorced because of the children. They try to find fulfillment in other ways.
Years ago, when a Gerer chasid had a girl, he would tell his friend "Der DUS hot gehat a YENS." In Yiddish, loosely translated this means that the thing (my woman) had another thing (girl)
They dont even want to say the word wife! Or girl.

My personal impressions of the many hundreds of close friends or relatives I have in Ger is that they have no class. No matter how rich they are, they do not know what the word classy means.
They are extremely stingy, cold people.
They are not giving and warm.
They will rush to say tehilim, run to the hospital to do a mitzva, but ignore their own basic needs.
They lack a little common sense about what is truly important.
And the women are frustrated.
The newer generation is a bit better. They have seen more divorces and more mental problems, and things are improving. But for those women over 40, things are tough.
They basically resign themselves to acceptance.

It is sad, because life is short and meant to be enjoyed!

ft, if the best that can be said is that some of the younger Gerrer can seen healthy married life on a clear day with a telescope I'm not impressed. It makes Vodun, Wicca and Islam look mighty attractive.

Hey Henny!
What the hell are u sayin? You and your brothers are ger and you hang out at failedmessiah! Your either a mudderne gerrer or a fake phoney fraud.

Bottom line:
It was Ger who gave us Mondrowitz and the Gerrer rabbonim who shushed it up.
It was Ger who gave us Leizerowitz.
It was Ger who gave us Avrum Schoor, Grand Rabbi of Ger in Flatbush, who has employed Leizerowitz in his Jerusalem Yeshiva for disadvantaged teens.
It was Ger that spawned the piece of shit Shoor who attacked LIPA at a wedding and led the ban against his concerts.
It was Ger who gave us those sick young men in Bnai Barak screwing boys ON TAPE in the mikve.
It is Ger that has these women in bondage freakin out from these unnatural and mentaly unbearable relationships.
It is Ger that will ultimately bring us so close to the precipice that the chareidi world WILL one day awaken and revolt against this insanity.

If you look at most chasidusses today you would understand how far reaching the Vilan Gaons vision was. He was a misnaged because although the Rebbes were holy the chassidim couldn't handle chassidus and they just pervert it. Down with Ger down with Satmar down with Bobov down with Apikorsus Chabad....

Only ger has such crazy rules. Satmar has no such rules.

The gerer rebbe, the bais yisruel lost his wife in the holocoust when he was in his fourties and never remarried. He chose to live a completely celibate life for the rest of his life because he thought that being celibate would make him more holy. Even though the bais yisruel had no children from his marriage before the war, he chose to not remarry and the whose time that he was gerer rebbe he had no rebbitzin. Maybe for the bais yisruel celibacy was the ideal life and maybe the bais yisruel was holy enough to handle being celibate without trying to be celibate causing him to sin, but very few people are this holy, and most people who try to lead such holy lives fall very fast and very deep into the abyss of sin.

Pessie Gelb
Well said I agree with you 100%! The problem is foolish chasidim misunderstand and want to be like the Rebbes. They think you can copy the Rebbe and it'll work for them like it worked for him. You can't run before you can walk!

Gerer rebbe obviously had PSTD. There is no reason for other people to copy that.

OK folks, listen up. You cannot draw conclusions from facts that are just not true. The Bais Yisroel DID have a married son before the war and letters exist of his frantic attempts to save his son and family after the Bais Yisroel escaped with his father the Imrei Emes. He was unsuccesful and they perished in the war. Additionaly, the B"Y DID indeed remarry post WW2 in Israel but had no additional children from her. His second rebbetzin survived him for many years after his demise (in 1977?), well into the 1980s and perhaps later. She resided in the apartment adjacent to the beis medrash on Malchei Yisroel Street and remained there during the reign of the Lev Simcha.
Now that you know the facts, carry on.......

What an attractive lady.

my brother is ger and he hasn't spoken to my wife in the eight years we are married....
Its alot worse than you think

One of my friends told me that her ex-husband raped her 3 times a night every night that she was not nida.

To all of you who are blaming the men again, I choose to differ, we are talking about adult women who are 18+, if they don't want to marry the guy they shouldn't marry him, if you are to dumb not to choose your own way then that's what you get, stop blaming others for your own stupid mistakes. I am sure if it was an 18 year old guy forced into marrying a bitch people would say they shouldn't have done it.

BY THE WAY THE BAIS YISROEL HAD A MARRIED DAUGHTER BEFORE THE WAR & A SINGLE SON NAMED LEIBEL
I AM A GERRER & IT'S A LITTLE OVERDONE
DON'T BELEIVE ALL B.S. THAT PEOPLE TELL YOU

and they call us goyim

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