Tropper Sex And Abuse Of Power Scandal Makes The NY Post

Rabbi Leib Tropper of Rockland County is heard encouraging pretty, blond woman to participate in phone sex and actual sex with men the rabbi knows, including one he calls "the Satmar guy."

Tal-mood for love
Sex-tape rabbi tries to 'share' hottie
By REUVEN BLAU and MELISSA KLEIN

Eww, that's not kosher!

A prominent Orthodox rabbi has been caught on tape discussing his apparent love affair with a shiksa he was converting to Judaism -- whom he allegedly also pushed to have sex with his friends.

Rabbi Leib Tropper of Rockland County is heard encouraging pretty, blond Shannon Orand of Houston to participate in phone sex and actual sex with men the rabbi knows, including one he calls "the Satmar guy."

Tropper, who calls the woman "darling" and "cutie pie," talks about his own love affair with her at one point, saying: "I want to squeeze you."

He also fantasized about rape. "I could role-play a rape with you but I couldn't actually rape you -- you know what I'm saying, darling -- does that make sense?" he asks.

The scandal has rocked the Orthodox community from Rockland to Israel, and transcripts of the sex tapes are circulating on Jewish blogs, with the audio posted on YouTube.

The rabbi talks about paying Orand money for a lawyer and a stipend of $1,300 for the month of November. He also mentions putting in writing an agreement between the two.

"Why would you want to document that kind of agreement on an e-mail?" an upset Orand asks.

Orand, who identifies herself on the tape, apparently recorded the phone conversations. "It was only supposed to go to a few leading rabbis," Orand, 32, told The Post.

She refused to comment further, and later released a statement saying, "While an individual 'rabbi' acted in an inappropriate manner, my desire to become a bona fide Jew is undeterred."

Orand reportedly told a Jewish blog, failedmessiah.com, that Tropper would tell her: "If you fulfill my needs, I'll fulfill yours -- and you need a conversion."

The blog reported that Orand's conversion was to have been finalized last week, but was canceled at the last minute by a religious court.

Tropper declined to comment, but a source close to him said the rabbi feels like he's a victim and was used by Orand.

He resigned effective Dec. 12 from Eternal Jewish Family, a Monsey-based organization that primarily works to convert gentiles in interfaith marriages to Judaism.

The 59-year-old rabbi is the founder of Eternal Jewish Family and sought to create strict universal guidelines for conversion, which are handled differently by various Jewish sects.

Here's Shannon's full statement, which she released early Friday afternoon, apparently after realizing the Post was outing her:

While an individual “rabbi” acted in an inappropriate manner, my desire to become a bona fide Jew is undeterred. 

I remain inspired by the beauty and wholesomeness of authentic Judaism. One unhealthy person cannot and will not interfere with my quest to become a fully committed observant Jew.

I want nothing more than to focus on my family at this time.

Previous Posts: 1, 2, 3, 4.

Jewcy Conversion Exposé: 1, 2.

Comments

[critical_minyan]

if this is true, and it looks like this is, there is no greater scumbag than this rabbi.
shannon, from what I know about her, was poor and going through a custody battle to keep her children.

The Rabbi should be prosecuted for blackmailing her.

[Shlomo]

Does anyone think there is a connection between "revoking" the conversion of a women (and her child) because she sometimes wore pants and his rape fantasies of women. The word misogyny comes to mind

[chaim k]

what a sad story,,,,,,,,,,,monsey rabbis are the most corrupt bunch of hoods look ar the tendler.tropper,yakov horowitz scandals

if any one gave money to the aguda frontman horowitz the phoney guy is the biggest protector of sex molestors on our kids share those stories with us

[Isa]

I was on a Jury in a "Speeding in a construction zone- double fine" case. What decided that, was a recording the officer made and we heard construction noise in the background.
After the trial, I asked the officer to see his recording device, it was extremely small, and I asked where he got it.
"Radio Shack" he said.

SO now you too can bring down the next preacher, politician or official.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Isa, in most states it is perfectly legal to record a conversation without the other person's permission, as long as you are a part of that conversation.

My attorney recommended I do that when someone at work was threatening me.

[Dr. Dave]

Since Tropper was approved by the chareidim, should we now suspect and reject all chareidi conversions?

That is what they are doing to other fully legitimate and even orthodox conversions.

There had been an uneasy Isaachar - Zevulun relationship between chareidim and the MO.

The chareidim produced the shochtim, the sofrim, etc. and ran most of the yeshivot.

The MO (along with masorti, secular etc.)were the ones who actually had jobs and worked for a living, subsidizing and supporting the chareidim.

It is time to ditch the hypocritical, chumra loving, kofrim creeps, delegitimize their institutions (although people like Tropper and Rubashkin have been doing that all along) and establish schools and subsidies for the completely halachic - yet chumra free - practice of religious offices ranging from mohel to shochet to sofer to rabbonim to dayanim.

[critical_minyan]

the abuse of women by the ultra orthodox is an ingrained part of the culture. While this case, in its starkness, highlights the abuse of power of the Rabbinate, we should not miss out on the bigger picture.
Ultra orthodox Jews are brainwashed into legitimizing the physical and mental abuse of women Women are denied education, turned into baby making machines and threatened if they try to leave abusive relationships.
That is the unspoken backstory to this whole sordid affair.

[effie]

WSC: I'd be careful about that. It defies common sense but in some states not only can you not record without consent of all parties, it applies to non telephone conversations, too. I also vaguely remember reading in one instance the person skated because he used some sort of digital device as oppose to tape to record. Anyone can check this guide but they should also go look up the laws to make sure the guide is correct.

http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states.html

[danny]

I can't believe that the NY Post used the word "shiksa" in its article. I guess that Yiddish words have become so ingrained in American English, that the writers just assumed that their readers understood.

[R]

critical, they don't give their sons an education either, so i wouldn't worry about the girls not getting one.
In some cases the girls have a better education than the boys. Obviously not in gemarra.

[y]

ain apoTROPPERs l'aroyos

[WoolSilkCotton]

Effie, thanks for the info.

Problems seem to be when recording a conversation across state lines if the two states have different rules about recording, and if you record in some misleading role, such as an undercover investigator or journalist posing as someone else in order to ensnare someone.

Reminds me of Linda Tripp's recordings of conversations with Monica Lewinsky, which involved crossing state lines, pumping someone for information to be used against a third person, misrepresenting yourself for the purpose of gaining information, etc.

Best to consult an attorney if you feel you've got a serious problem that requires such recording.

[Isa]

Now I have read these comments regarding recording devices...

I would rather have an illegal recording protecting me against an unfounded accusation, at least one could have the accusation dropped quietly or other options.

Police need these things or else they will be accused of saying the 'N' word or the 'B' word or whatever.

Now of course someone did get into trouble of recording some politician cell phone conversation and then publicizing it (Federal Law)

[effie]

WSC: I believe both states could claim jurisdiction, meaning that if illegal in one state and not the other, that state can arrest you. I would make sure your atty is up on the law, too. Laws change all the time. Law enforcement is exempt from these laws, by the way. I do have problems with situations where it is illegal for people who are being victimized recording.

[KOLPOGIMBO]

חילול ה' איום ונורא

[Mr. Apikorus]

New York and New Jersey permit it. And despite what you might read here, it's the state where the recording is made which has the jurisdiction over its legality. Dunno about the law in Texas.

Ironically, Maryland, where Linda Tripp surreptitiously recording Monica Lewinsky, is one of the few states where the practice is illegal.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Dr. Dave: The Union for Traditional Judaism and Yeshivat Chovevei Torah are chumra free halachic institutions. They deserve our support.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

"I can't believe that the NY Post used the word "shiksa" in its article."

One of the commenters (1 of 6) on the NY Post site has complained about it's usage. The latest post asserts that Ms. Orand showed up in shul on Shabbos and that the doctor she has been dating seems to be avoiding her.

/Her life must be wonderful about now

[WoolSilkCotton]

She goes to shul on Shabbos and is dating a doctor?
What next, shopping at Bergdorf Goodman?
Ordering a cosmopolitan rimmed with Sweet n' Low?

Fran Drescher and Joan Rivers must be having a field day with this material.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

"Fran Drescher and Joan Rivers must be having a field day with this material."

Joan Rivers only comes out these days on a full moon when its light shines on the amulet of her sarcophagus which in turn activates a lever that causes its lid to slowly open.

[danny]

At this point, I feel bad for her. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to have that many "eyes" on me. I guess that you just have to be loud and proud. To hell with the what others might say or think.

I find her to be quite attractive, but the religious stuff kinda creeps me out.

[Shaul in Monsey]

VIN not reporting this really brings there value as a news source into question.

The other question is if Lipshits is going to defend Tropper like he did SMR.

[effie]

And despite what you might read here, it's the state where the recording is made which has the jurisdiction over its legality.

No. You really have to look at the law and case law and apply it to the facts of the particular case to make that determination. For example, NY has ruled that the law of the state where the injury occurs applies, which in their case was not the state where the recording was made.

See: http://www.rcfp.org/taping/interstate.html

[Alberto]

Why on earth would they reveal the woman's identity? Seriously............

[effie]

Currently, in 12 states two party consent is required. But again, these laws often change.

http://www.rcfp.org/taping/quick.html

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

"Why on earth would they reveal the woman's identity? Seriously............"

Evidently, the NY Post is taking the position that no crime has taken place, hence no victim to protect.

[Out with the Phonies]

"The other question is if Lipshits is going to defend Tropper like he did SMR.

I agree that this is going to be really interesting. Molesting kids is a "nu nu". But women thats a real "oy vey gevalt". Ive' already heard the "its all made up" typical denial stuff. Truth be told there are many many people in the Monsey community as well as the overall black hat world who despised Tropper for any number of reasons. There are very few tears being shed over this. The question is do they circle the wagons because he is one of us or do they cut him loose. If they are smart they take there cues from the Jerusalem Rabbis and cut him loose big time. But then again they have always made the wrong calls to date so why should this be any different. Maybe him and Mordy Tendler can open a new shul together. They can hang a big welcoming sign "Eishes Chayil Mi Yimtza".

[Mr. Apikorus]

There are many exceptions to the two-party consent rule. For example, if fraud is involved or suspected. Believe me, I know, having audiotaped a well-known company which ripped me off for $14,000.

I got my money back, every nickel.

[Shaul in Monsey]

With Tendler there were always claims of tapes but none were produced. Here with Tropper you can clearly hear his distinctive "I could role play rape you but not actually rape you." And the the vile, bile wrenching, "I could squeeeeze you..."

[Dr. Moe]

"The other question is if Lipshits is going to defend Tropper like he did SMR."

The answer is NO, I am sure Rabbi Lipshuts does what is right and he will be againats Mr. Tropper (I wont even call the scum a Rabbi)as many Gentiles feel Sholom Rubshakin does not deserve to sit in Jail for the rest of his life for trying to save Postville.

Had Mr. Tropper worked for Agri he would have been kicked out long ago by Sholom Rubshkin you sound like you can't rest untill you see the blood of sholom Rubashkin spilling on the streets.

You cant mix apples with Oranges.

We are pretty sure Mrs Orand feels the same way.

[moshe shmiel]

just an intresting quiestion. i would like to know more info on this "called" rabbi, tropper. i never heard of him till this terrible case. was he a powerfull ruv, from what comunity is he, litvish, MO, chasidish? where did he learn as a bucher, etc. thanks

[ZIY]

there is some anti-misnagdic glee involved in all this, seeing this sanctimonious snag behaving more perverted than the lowest horny chasid. and to be pimping out to a yoylee no less!

yad ha'chasidim al ho'eolyonah!

YECHI GUMA!!!

[rabbidw]

He learned in Telz where he dropped out of high school in the 9th grade. He learned for a while with Rabbi Scheinberg in Jerusalem, but I do not believe that he got semichah there. He is very bright, and some people say he is charismatic, though I never saw that. He punced his ticket with enough "gedolim" he started with a baal teshuvah Yeshivah and then formed his own. He decided to make himself the Godfather of Orthodox conversions and used his contacts to get the Isreali gedolim to back him. Most big Rabbis are suckers for people with brains and that is something that Tropper has. He also has an ego the size of the Grand Canyon and that is what may be seen by some as charisma.

[Shaul in Monsey]

Moe, Lipshits coverage of the SMR trial was a disgrace. And so is Lipshits. The Rubbishclan has more felons than the Manson family yet Lipshits was dumb enough to call the whole affair every name in the book except what it really was - a criminal on trial for his crimes. The whining Lipshits did was evidence of either a psychotic break or a stroke - neither of which deserve any sympathy. But what do you expect from a rag like the Yated that just realized a few months ago that Kolko is a rapist and yes, kinderlach, there are rabbeyim out there who will rape you given the chance.

Troppers wife was in on this so except for the newfangled menage shalosh angle, this will only be news fodder for so long. Then we'll find out some beard in Willy B had a stable of hairless youth trapped in his basement and we'll forget all about this.

Either that or another victim will call it quits from a rooftop and we'll realize what a bunch of cowards 99% of our frimme rabbis really are. Again.

[itchiemayer]

R' Scheinberg was mesader kiddushin at LT's son's recent wedding, and he (Tropper) does claim to be a musmach of R' Scheinberg.

[anony mouse (from monsey)]

I know for certain that Lipschutz has no love lost for Tropper. The EJF was not allowed to advertise in the Yated. Reb Elya Svei (who made these types of decisions for the paper in his lifetime) knew Tropper for who he was,,,

[seymour]

what is the beis dien thinking of revoking her conversion.

it goes the show you how corrupt the orthodox are

[Jon]

More likely they just think that "proselytizing is un-Jewish," and didn't like him for that reason.

[Ben]

Orthodox, especially perverted cult of haredi othodox, must not be allowed to define "who is a Jew" question. All of the haredi rabbis must be removed from all positions of power, since they are corrupt through and through. All haredim must present proves that they themselves are Jewish and every paper and every witness that they present should be a suspect for being fraudulent. They must get their own medicine in full measure.

[Red Sox Fan]

Where exactly are the audio recordings?

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

"Where exactly are the audio recordings?"

Rebbitzin Admission
Leib's Contract - Part 1

Leib's Contract - Part 2

[Robert Wisler]

I don't think that it's Tropper's fault. After all, his entire post-Telz education "learning" from the filthy old repulsive shit Scheinberg has been "as long as there's no anal penetration, it's mu'tar." The sooner Scheinberg's foul lips are silenced by heaven's wrath, the better.

[MalachHamovies]

It could have been much much worse. At least there was no discussion of him chas v'sholom wanting to shake her hand.

[KOLPOGIMBO]

Oh great, look Uncle leib can go in january and vist his shiksala
http://www.ejfseminars.org/sample_schedule

[Pinny]

Oh great, look Uncle leib can go in january and vist his shiksala
http://www.ejfseminars.org/sample_schedule

Judaism with Authenticity

Rabbi Yonasan Rosenblum, Noted Author, Lecturer and Columnist

And Agudas Yisroel Public Relations point man. http://www.jewishmediaresources.com/

[Shaul in Monsey]

Can anyone explain the tape called "rebbetzin admission" what is she admitting to? All I can hear is some nonsense about japanese surveillance.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

"Oh great, look Uncle leib can go in january and vist his shiksala
http://www.ejfseminars.org/sample_schedule"

That is a really jammed-pack schedule, but I can't find the breakout sessions for the ménages à trois.

[Isa]

They found the sign
See link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8423827.stm

[Out with the Phonies]

"Can anyone explain the tape called "rebbetzin admission" what is she admitting to? All I can hear is some nonsense about japanese surveillance."

It sounds like a discussion about a videotape and not showing it for "tzinius" reasons. If thats the Rebetzin that may be the admission that she is involved in the tape. It is less than clear. There has been talk of a videotape but it has not hit the airwaves yet. The Rebetzin may also be a victim of him. Evreything she knows about Judiasim comes from him. If he tells her its all muttar and kosher and a mitzvah maybe she believed him. You can hear from the tapes what a nonstop BS machine the guy is.

What's interesting is the discussion about the e-mail. He wants to put the financial deal in an e-mail and she refuses. What was his game. Maybe he wants to have a prostitution offense over her head in an email because he knows she has the goods on him.

Some commenter mentioned rechecking all of his geirus the same way they did to Druckman. I would say at least with respect to women it would be interesting to know if he pressured other female converts for sex. That would mean that the real criteria was not how strictly they accepted Judiasim but how well they serviced the rabbi and his buddies sex fantasies.

[nu]

גוי=חסיד

[Mr. Green]

You people don't understand. You have to dan Tropper l'kav zchus. He screwed her while she was still a shiksa because he knew that as soon as he completed the giyur it would be a much more serious aveirah.

[critical_minyan]

this dude converted 100's if not 1000's of people to judaism.
most of the people are committed jews, who must be devastated.
I know one of my friends converted his wife through him, who was scared to wear pants in NY because he was afraid his ex-wife was gonna rat her out.
they went to him specifically because they wanted an extra kosher conversion so their kids would be accepted in Israel.
Yanking all of Troppers conversions would be a nightmare scenario for these familiers.

[Mr. Apikorus]

I think we should yank Tropper's wang. Until it breaks off, that is.

[Dr. Dave]

Yanking all of Troppers conversions would be a nightmare scenario for these familiers.

No different than the "gedolim" yanking conversions for sincere converts and violating numerous Torah laws in the process.

The only honest, torah true thing these "gedolim" could do now is to publicly repent (do T'shuva) for oppressing converts (many of whom are also widows and orphans) and state that they will no longer abuse nor abase them.

The Syrian community in the U.S. should likewise repent.

Of course the hypocrites will never do so.

[Ben]

Dr.Dave, I agree that these people will never repent. This is what makes them going - looking at others as less then human. In mild cases of haredizm they look at others as less human then themselves, in normal (advanced) stage of this illness they look at others as not human at all. Sex with a gentile is equal to sex with an animal by them. Don't forget about this. There is nothing to repent about. Would you repent and say sorry to a cow that you are eating? No. So why should they? This is very sociopathic approach that they hold - entire world is here just to serve their own needs and I'm not making it up (if I wanted to, I would not be able to. My fantasy does not go as far as their reality).

[jay]

this could easy get another tiger woods story. who knows?

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

The only honest, torah true thing these "gedolim" could do now is to publicly repent (do T'shuva) for oppressing converts (many of whom are also widows and orphans) and state that they will no longer abuse nor abase them.

Or get the list Tropp and Amar and were working from and apologize to each convert in person. That would be the ONLY way they could do t'shuva for this.

[joeshmo]

itchemeir:

the kallah is rabbi sheinbergs great granddaughter

[joeshmo]

i've seen numerous comments about r' shenberg and it being mutar if theres no anal sex whats this about?

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

"it being mutar if theres no anal sex whats this about?"

It's about the Kolko case and his proclivity to rub his "unit" against the buttocks of little kids and yet was pronounced "glatt kosher" to continue teaching.

You can read more about this wacko here:

http://bit.ly/6QDknt

And in 2006, New York Magazine reported:

"The suit also alleges that Margulies had a revered ultra-Orthodox rabbi, Pinchus Scheinberg (also not a defendant), tell the victims that as a matter of Jewish law, Kolko would have had to have more than just fondled them for the acts to qualify as sexual abuse."

So, there you have it. The big Torah scholar, the tzaddik who wears 40 lbs of tzitzis because he's so "Kodesh" says it's okay to rub one's penis up against a little boys buttocks.

[Ahavah]

What she was "admitting" in the tape is that on the video, which apparently none of us have actually seen, that she, tropper, and the woman from texas are recognizable to anyone who knows them personally. She says that yes, you can tell it is them if you know them. That's her concern, not that the tape isn't modest, but that they are clearly identifiable in it.

[Yoni B.]

I have known Reb Leib for thirty years. In all that time, he has always done whatever he could to help me and my family. He has helped many others whom I know personally. I never found him to be avaricious or duplicitous.

The circumstances which make it appear as if, in the last year, he could not defeat the yetzer hora, have yet to be fully explained.

Although this threatens to be a very sad parsha, it is not the worst thing ever to happen to the Jewish people.

If anything took place, only consenting adults were involved and it was certainly a set up.

What is the rush to ruin Leibel Tropper as much as possible?

There's plenty of time to pile on the mud, but in the meantime, why not a have little rachmones for everyone who's heart feels broken today?

Its still an open question how bad this thing is but for sure, Reb Leib has at least four decades of mitzvas to his credit.

It is also worth considering whether those who brought this sordid mess to the attention of the entire world - caused more Chilul HaShem than allegedly Reb Leib did.

[raheldworkin]

what about 'rav' pinhas pachter , chabad lubavitch shaliyah in paris, 20th district .
does anyone know ?
prob not . bc the incident was covered up.
'rav' pinhas pachter was in charge of converting a goya to judaism . instead , he has sex with her numerous times .
the goya complained . the incident was smothered .
pinhas pachter was married for 15 years and had 8 children . his wife divorced him after confirmation of the incident . he remarried .
he still kept his job as a chabad shaliyah in paris ( 20th arrondissement ). he was not excommunicated by chabad .AND HE STILL WORKS AT THE PARIS BET DIN , NOT AFFILIATED with chabad .
the betdin of paris is an orthodox organization , NOT AFFILIATED WITH CHABAD .
how can someone trust a
guy as pinhas pachter ?

[raheldworkin]

what about 'rav' pinhas pachter , chabad lubavitch shaliyah in paris, 20th district .
does anyone know ?
prob not . bc the incident was covered up.
'rav' pinhas pachter was in charge of converting a goya to judaism . instead , he has sex with her numerous times .
the goya complained . the incident was smothered .
pinhas pachter was married for 15 years and had 8 children . his wife divorced him after confirmation of the incident . he remarried .
he still kept his job as a chabad shaliyah in paris ( 20th arrondissement ). he was not excommunicated by chabad .AND HE STILL WORKS AT THE PARIS BET DIN , NOT AFFILIATED with chabad .
the betdin of paris is an orthodox organization , NOT AFFILIATED WITH CHABAD .
how can someone trust a
guy as pinhas pachter ?