Rothstein Indicted On $1 BILLION Fraud

Mega Chabad donor was led into the Miami FBI office in handcuffs following his early morning arrest on five charges, including a violation of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations, or RICO law, often used against the Mafia and other criminal organizations.

Fla. lawyer charged with $1B investment fraud
By CURT ANDERSON • AP

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. – A once high-flying attorney who courted politicians and celebrities was arrested Tuesday on federal racketeering and fraud charges alleging he operated a $1 billion investment scheme involving phony legal settlements.

Lawyer Scott Rothstein was led into the Miami FBI office in handcuffs following his early morning arrest on five charges, including a violation of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations, or RICO law, often used against the Mafia and other criminal organizations.

Rothstein was also charged with wire fraud, money laundering, and mail and wire fraud conspiracy. The combined maximum prison term for convictions on all counts is 100 years, according to court documents.

A few hours after his arrest, Rothstein pleaded not guilty in federal court even though the information charging document — rather than an indictment — used by prosecutors typically means a defendant has agreed to eventually plead guilty.

"There is no deal at this point in time," said Rothstein attorney Marc Nurik.

Nurik added that Rothstein — shackled and wearing a black T-shirt and blue jeans in court — intends to repay as many investors as possible. "At the end of the day, the people who deserve to get money back hopefully will," Nurik said.

Rothstein was ordered held without bail by U.S. Magistrate Robin Rosenbaum, who noted that Rothstein had wired some $16 million to a bank account in Morocco and flew on a chartered jet there in late October before returning to Florida. Rothstein carried up to $500,000 in cash on that trip, she said citing evidence from prosecutors.

"At least at some point, Mr. Rothstein intended to flee," Rosenbaum said.

The charging document cites unnamed "other conspirators" who also played key roles in the fraud, suggesting that more people could face charges. The document also said that Rothstein paid "gratuities" to unidentified police officials "to deflect law enforcement scrutiny" of his activities.

The criminal case was seen as inevitable after Rothstein returned from Morocco early last month amid mounting questions from investors and the FBI about missing money.

Federal agents have seized Rothstein's boats, including an 87-foot yacht, as well as 20 luxury cars and numerous other assets, including his share of the Miami Beach mansion formerly owned by fashion designer Gianni Versace. Prosecutors are also going after 21 homes and other properties linked to Rothstein in Florida, New York and along Rhode Island's Narragansett Bay.

Meanwhile, the once fast-growing law firm Rothstein Rosenfeldt Adler is defunct and Rothstein has been disbarred by the Florida Supreme Court. Several investors have already filed lawsuits seeking their money back, including one case demanding more than $100 million in damages.

Rothstein promised huge returns on investments in legal settlements he said would pay out over time. Prosecutors say most of the settlements never existed and that Rothstein operated a Ponzi scheme, using money from new investors to pay older ones.

Shortly after the scandal broke, the Florida Democratic Party returned $200,000 in contributions from Rothstein and his law firm. The state Republican Party gave back $150,000, and Gov. Charlie Crist returned $9,600 that Rothstein and his wife, Kim, had donated to Crist's campaign for the U.S. Senate.

Rothstein's office is filled with photos of him with politicians from around the country, including former President George W. Bush, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, Arizona Sen. John McCain and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. He was also close to Miami Dolphins great Dan Marino and many South Florida business and community leaders.

Chabad has already removed Rothstein's name from the building he helped build. [Hat Tip for the name removal: joe.]

[Hat Tip: ML.]

Comments

[sage]

Hashem willing, the same thing needs to happen to the RCF and all other entities, who aided and abbeted in their criminal activities.

[harold]

Rothstein's office is filled with photos of him with politicians from around the country, including former President George W. Bush, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, Arizona Sen. John McCain and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. He was also close to Miami Dolphins great Dan Marino and many South Florida business and community leaders.

... then why this preoccupation with his affiliation with Chabad?

[Joe Bloom]

Not a "mega donor"

[joe]

harold,

You probably know the answer to your own question.

In case you don't: Scott Rosenberg is old, fat and hopelessly single guy who has not left a single positive mark in this world. He has no wife, no children and no job. He knows that he will be thoroughly forgotten after his death. His only source of pleasure is his war against the Jewish People, Orthodox Judaism and Chabad in particular, whom he blames for his failed life.

That is why he posts pictures of a Rabbi and a Chabad synagogue with an article that has nothing to do with these pictures, thereby giving an intentionally false impression that Scott Rothstein debacle was some Chabad scandal.

Never mind that Rothstein gave to a huge number of Florida charities and political organizations, nor does it matter to Scott that the Rabbi had NO CONNECTION AT ALL to any wrongdoing. He is filled with hate and that is all that drive him.

[nachos]

Can this be "chabadnik attorney?" Just kidding :(

[Shmarya]

The Chabad center there is named for Rothstein, because Rothstein donated the bulk of the funds for the building.

When Chabad moves to restore those funds to Rothstein's victims, and when Chabad removes Rothstein's name from the building, you'll see a different take on the issue.

[Mr. Apikorus]

Joey baby:

I'm not exactly a big fan of Scott Rosenberg but exactly what mark have you made in your life?

[joe]

Firstly, this particular center has not been affiliated with the official Chabad, so the Rabbi is on his own as far as reimbursing anyone.

Secondly, the money was already used for the construction of the building and it will be up to the Court to decide what is to be done. The Court will, no doubt, weigh equities here (public need vs. the greedy & sleazy investors that lost money). Ultimately if the Court will rule that the building is to be sold to reimburse the investors, that is what will happen. That would be very unfortunate as I have no doubt that the sale would not recoup even a fraction of the construction costs...

Thirdly, it has been widely reported in the media that the name has already been removed from the building.

[Shmarya]

Thirdly, it has been widely reported in the media that the name has already been removed from the building.

Find the source for me and I'll post that.

[joe]

here is one of many sources:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-charities-rothstein-clawback-20091125,0,4643894.story

Here is a quote from this article: "And at Rothstein's spiritual home, a new building off Broward Boulevard whose front proclaimed "The Rothstein Family Downtown Jewish Center Chabad,'' his name has been stripped away."

[joe]

By all accounts Scott Rothstein sounds like a psycho con man from hell. However, his so-called "innocent victims" aren't much better – a bunch of greedy immoral vultures. "30% return on confidential settlements to whistle-blowers!" Let them blow on it now, they got what they deserved! It would be immoral to punish the truly innocent (the charities) to reimburse the vultures.

[harold]

Find the source for me and I'll post that

his name has been stripped away

Nice work Joe, lets see Scott follow up.

[Shmarya]

Nice work Joe, lets see Scott follow up.

It's been posted at the end of the story for 45 minutes or so, harold…

[Jack Schitt, Esq.]

When Chabad moves to restore those funds to Rothstein's victims, and when Chabad removes Rothstein's name from the building, you'll see a different take on the issue.

If Chabad is forced to dismantle and sell their building, they are Rothstein's victims too? Weren't they also conned?

Grow up Shmarya and stop blaming Chabad for every world malady that has some hook to Chabad in it.

[harold]

It's been posted at the end of the story for 45 minutes or so, harold…

I still see the picture of the building with his name on it contrary to the fact that his name was removed from the building.

[Yankele]

Shmarya,

The right thing to do would be to take down the picture.

"The list of charities wasn't released, but Rothstein has given to the Boys and Girls Clubs of Broward, the Jewish Federation of Broward, the Broward Public Library Foundation, the American Heart Association, Alonzo Mourning Charities, the Dan Marino Foundation and HANDY Inc., a charity that serves foster children."

None of the above charities were listed among the charities that have returned money.

[seymour]

I wonder maybe hi si related to Abe Rothstein

[seymour]

link that name was removed

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-charities-rothstein-clawback-20091125,0,4643894.story

[Shmarya]

The right thing to do would be to take down the picture.

Please.

Chabad took the name off, which is the right thing to do – and I noted that as soon as I was made aware of it.

I'll do the same when Chabad returns the money.

But I won't remove the history of the connection.

[harold]

But I won't remove the history of the connection

I understand, your hatred of chabad is all consuming to your core. To the point that you have devoted your entire life, by your own admission, 12 hours a day, to your hatred of orthodox Judaism.

How sad.

[joe]

But I won't remove the history of the connection.

Scott, if you had really written a "history of connection", no one would complain.

Mind you, you would still have to make it clear that the "connection" is just that this shule recieve $ from Rothstein, just like countless other charities.

You wold also have to disclose that this shule was not connected to the Chabad movement and has been operating under the private authority of this particular Rabbi. You would thus have to acknowledge that there is no reason for "Chabad to return the money".

But you did none of the above, you took an article written by someone else and pasted these UNRELATED pictures - all in obvious effort to create a false impression.

Scum.

[Shmarya]

No, 'harold.' You miss the point entirely.

The connection is history and should be preserved, just as it was news and should have been reported – and I was criticized for reporting it, as well.

What Chabad chooses to do with this mess is also news.

If what it chooses to do is good, the news will be good.

That's how it works.

[Shmarya]

But you did none of the above, you took an article written by someone else and pasted these UNRELATED pictures - all in obvious effort to create a false impression.

You don't process information well, it seems. The pictures are all of Rothstein, either alone in his office or with his watches, etc., or (one) with his wife and the Chabad rabbi.

The other picture is the sign on the Chabad building.

There is nothing "unrelated" about them.

Scum.

Hasid.

[cashcashcash]

Investors do not want Chabad or any other charity to return the money
It is impossible to get the billion back.
They can rescue just few mullions that are going to be to pay lawyers
The money will stay in the chariites and at least investors are going to get a right off

[WoolSilkCotton]

++Scum.

Hasid.++

Shmarya, you rule!!

[effie]

joe: By all accounts you are a psycho con man. Stop coming here and insulting the host.

Shmarya: Can you just ban the jerk? He contributes nothing.

[joe]

The picture are not from THIS article. You pasted them in to make it seem like they are. You are an intentional liar.

Like I said, author your own post and paste away (the very same pictures even).

[Shmarya]

The picture are not from THIS article. You pasted them in to make it seem like they are.

Again, the pictures are:

1. Rothstein in his office.

2. Rothstein and his wife with the Chabad rabbi.

3. Rothstein and his watches.

4. The Chabad building with Rothstein's name on it.

None of those pictures is deceptive in any way.

You are an intentional liar.

You are an unintentional comic.

[joe]

effie, you feeble moron. the Scott I called "psycho con man" was Scott Rothstein, not Scott Rosenberg.

[joe]

You don't need to defend the pictures – no one challenged their authenticity.

Your post, however, gives an impression that you are displaying an article by CURT ANDERSON for AP. His article DOES NOT sport these pictures nor says anything at all about Chabad. Still don't get it?

[WoolSilkCotton]

Poor silly lifeless Joe.
You and Harold should be grateful to have Shmarya to spend hours insulting him every day.

Otherwise, you'd be wasting all those hours studying the Torah.

Personally, I believe reading FM qualifies as Torah study.

[Shmarya]

Your post, however, gives an impression that you are displaying an article by CURT ANDERSON for AP. His article DOES NOT sport these pictures nor says anything at all about Chabad. Still don't get it?

Take a deep breath, try to calm yourself, and process:

1. My headline and subhead mention Chabad.

2. The pictures illustrate both my headline and subhead and the AP story.

3. If you were to read other versions of this or any other AP story, you'll often find pictures in one version that you do not see in another, and you'll also see small and not so small changes in the text made by various editors. So an AP story about someone who committed a crime in Miami but lived much of the year in Minneapolis might have local pictures of him printed with the story in both locations, and both locations might add a bits of local reporting, as well. Only if those changes are significant do you see any note from the editors.

4. In other words, Journalism 101 (a class you surely never took): there's nothing wrong with illustrating wire service copy.

[Asa]

"--You are an intentional liar.

--You are an unintentional comic."

Good one.

[itchiemayer]

I do notice that there seems to be a lot of "Chabad" Rabbis that I'm told are not part of the "official" Chabad. I'm just sayin'...

[joe]

Only if those changes are significant do you see any note from the editors.

Let's see:

1. Rothstein is not a "Chabad donor" (mega or otherwise). He gave many to a privately-run synagogue run by Lubavitcher.

2. The story is about his indictment, not about his connection to Chabad.

3. Pasting a picture of an innocent men in the context of this wire story about an indictment is not a "significant change"?

OK then. Enough time wasted.

[joe]

itchimayer,

go to chabad.org, make a search for any any Chabad Rabbi. If they do not show up, they are working off the reservation.

[Shmarya]

OK then. Enough time wasted.

I think most people said that about your comments a long time ago, joe.

Past that:

1. It is clear who Rothstein is, and it isn't the guy with the black hat.

2. Therefore, it's very unlikely anyone would mix up the two.

3. The rabbi is part of the story because he took millions in donations from Rothstein.

4. His connection to Chabad is the type of news this website would cover, just as it would cover his connections to Aish or Ohr Somayach or YU – if they existed.

5. I'll give you a frequent example. A man is in the news for something positive – he discovered a cure for cancer or saved siamese triplets from drowning in a lake, or won a Nobel Prize. Years ago, this man once stopped at a Chabad House to use the rest room. While there, the rabbi asked him to put on tefillin. The man did it and, as he did, the Chabad rabbi's son snapped a picture of his father putting the tefillin on the man. 12 years later, after no further contact with Chabad, the man wins a Nobel Prize. Within moments, Chabad.org has the picture posted over an AP story about the man winning the Nobel Prize. Do you complain, joe? Or do you think that's okay?

[WoolSilkCotton]

http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=22619

The sign on the building says 'CHABAD' pretty darned clearly.

I know there are plenty of unauthorized shmucks running around as Chabad rabbis, and not sanctioned by the Lubavitch organization. The best known is Rabbi Shmuely Boteach, aka 'Michael Jackson's Rabbi'. Still others are openly maniacal meshichists.
Many use the word Chabad on their websites, stationary, and their buildings. Pretty sleazy to use the name of an organization that already is considered pretty sleazy.

++Within moments, Chabad.org has the picture posted over an AP story about the man winning the Nobel Prize.++

Good point, Shmarya.
Chabad never met a camera it didn't like. Every opportunity is exploited.
They did something similar with the story of that professor that was killed at Virginia Tech University a few years ago, and exploited the story of his murder, his funeral, and then paraded around his widow for more Chabad PR. It was utterly shameless. The woman and her late husband had nothing to do with Chabad, and yet somehow they attached themselves to his name and jumped in front of the camera.
They are like the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharptons of the Jews.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3388753,00.html

http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=8839

http://lubavitch.com/news/article/2019140/On-Campus-Chabad-Couple-Named-To-New-Virginia-Tech-Librescu-Chabad-House.html

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3390258,00.html

[al Farabi]

Joe's comments typify those of the morally, spiritually, and intellectually bankrupt morons that comprise the haredi world and its apologists - they can't play the ball and therefore play the man. Come to South Africa Joe - we'll put you on the rugby field and teach you how to play the ball and not the man - you pathetic slob!

[Yosef ben Matitya]

"Grow up Shmarya and stop blaming Chabad for every world malady that has some hook to Chabad in it."
it's not so simple, JS Esq. actually they are indeed a generator of trouble as well as a magnet of mischief.
it's no different than the way Yishmael is described by the angel:
וְהוּא יִהְיֶה, פֶּרֶא אָדָם--יָדוֹ בַכֹּל, וְיַד כֹּל בּוֹ; וְעַל-פְּנֵי כָל-אֶחָיו, יִשְׁכֹּן.
that's what they are, savages, with their sticky fingers in every pie (kosher or not). And scattered all over polluting all communities.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

taking money from the rothstein, is like buying stolen goods. a bit worse, those who buy stolen goods, go usually hush hush about it. here, they do it in broad day lite,

[joe]

It is clear who Rothstein is, and it isn't the guy with the black hat.

Seriously? You don't understand that by pasting these pictures into the SR indictment story – with no explanation at all – you are implying a sinister connection between the Rabbi and SR?

12 years later, after no further contact with Chabad, the man wins a Nobel Prize. Within moments, Chabad.org has the picture posted over an AP story about the man winning the Nobel Prize

You lie again. Chabad.org is a content site, not a news site, and it certainly doesn't engage in this sort of cheap sensationalism. That sort of stupidity you might find on col.org.il or shturem.net and, NO, it's "not OK" when they do it either. Except when they do it, it's just stupidity. You, on the other hand, are in this case guilty (once again) of evildoing and are cynically and intentionally attempting to malign a Rabbi who has ZERO connection to any criminal or unethical activity.

[Asa]

Chabad.org is comprised of many sections, one of which is news, with a large assortment of stories.

[Shmarya]

Lets see, Joe:

1. I explained the way editors handle these situations. You do not understand.

2. I explained that Rothstein's connections to Chabad are news. You did not understand.

You lie again. Chabad.org is a content site, not a news site,

Okay. Lubavitch.com, then, or the Lubavitch News Service – both of which do this type of thing all the time and both of whom are very, very official Chabad.

As for the "you lie again" crack, no, Joe, I did not lie "again" – I did not lie at all.

Maybe your circular reasoning carries water (or should I say mashke?) in Crown Heights, but it really doesn't work in the real world.

Drink happy.

[joe]

Matitya ימ"ש,

Taking money from Rothstein was NOTHING "like buying stolen goods." Not a single one of the huge number of Florida charities that had accepted Rothstein's donations had any knowledge that his largess came from ill-gotten profits.

Drop dead, moron.

[joe]

This what it would be like for a Jew to post comments on Der Shurmer, had it been a blog.

[joe]

Der Shturmer, that is.

[Shmarya]

JOE to Shmarya: You lie again. Chabad.org is a content site, not a news site,

ASA to Joe: Chabad.org is comprised of many sections, one of which is news, with a large assortment of stories.

SHMARYA to Joe: Okay. Lubavitch.com, then, or the Lubavitch News Service – both of which do this type of thing all the time and both of whom are very, very official Chabad.

JOE to everyone: This what it would be like for a Jew to post comments on Der Shurmer, had it been a blog.

When you can't win an argument with facts, when you can't win it with logic, you try to win it by invoking the Nazis. Pathetic – although your thought that Der Shturmer would allow any type of dissent, let alone the wide range of views regularly expressed here, is truly insane.

[Yerachmiel Lopin]

I love the PR talents of Chabad supporters.

I believe the handbook says:

Rule 1: If it is a miracle, the rebbe did it
Rule 2: If it is a scandal: It didn't happen
Rule 3: If it is too late to deny the scandal (like after the indictment):
Rule 3a: If he doesnt look Chabad, We had nothing to do with him and we dont know nothing
Rule 3b: If he is a chabadnik, its a blood libel and we know it is a false charge because only litvaks drink blood
Rule 4: When all else fails, blame Shmarya!

[Asa]

"When all else fails, blame Shmarya!"

So funny. Great post, Yerachmiel.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

Matitya ימ"ש,
u mean me?
i think it's more appropriate to see the names of the minim them, their progeny, their wives and their talmidin blotted.

[effie]

joe: you stupid pos. I called YOU a "psycho con man" - it has nothing to do with what you called Rothstein. I'm sick of reading your insults and lies.

[Mr. Apikorus]

It's Der Sturmer, Josef. You had it richtig the first time.

[tanya]

pardon me, BUT----if one chooses to pose with a smiley face cozy cozy with the rabbi, (or with anyone else, for that matter,)that's his problem. He likes to get his kisser right up front, so pay the price. They like to show-off to everyone??so pay the price.

[justice seeker]

I'm thinking "BAIL"! Chabad chips in to support Rothsteins request, forms a defense fund, and argues anti-semetism. Wouldn't that be a hoot!

[tanya]

The only thing is, I don't think Chabad cares so much for a Jew like Rothstein. He's not one of them, they won't go to bat for him. No way. Going to bat is saved for the scandelous chabadniks who get caught. This guy is not a Chabadnik. They'll take his money alright, and then they'll use him, abuse him, screw him!!
I speak from personal experience--along with thousands of others.
Love the chochma bina das crew--they are phonies!!

[Rob Wisler]

Shmarya is a whistleblower, and it is an honorable profession (so were Woodward and Bernstein). Without Shmarya, UOJ. and more recently Lopin's FrumFollies, the lie that is ultra-Orthodoxy would continue spreading its anti-American lies and corruption without any bounds.

These incessant comments about "sitting in his mother's basement" are cheap and show "Joe", "Archie Bunker", and "Harold" to be what they are... low, uneducated, and sexual perverts who are obsessed with destroying the honesty and integrity that is characteristic of these blogs.

Since "Joe", "Archie Bunker" and "Harold" are too cowardly and low to reveal their true identies, it's best to just skip over their worthless comments or eliminate their postings entirely so that earnest and honest readers of this blog are not inconvenienced by the worthless thoughts of these utter fools.

[joe]

I do not believe that antisemitism played ANY role in SMR fate. I think US federal prosecution of white collar crime is excessive across the board and is out of sync with state prosecution of violent criminals (who do need to be kept away from society).

But – although this was not the subject of my comments – yes, even criminals like Bernie Madoff and Scott Rothestein (alleged at this point, but I am sure will be found guilty as well) deserve no less compassion and support from their fellow Jews. They are still "shvuim", even if deservedly so. So I do hope that the Rabbi that is pictured here will find the strength and do the right thing and remain involved with Scott Rothstein in his hour of distress and apparently deserved shame.

I am sure none of you can comprehend the last point. I will hep you – imagine we are talking about African Americans sticking up for a "brother". I know THAT is just wonderful in your book. Jews should do the same.

But rejoice, I am done commenting on this blog. There is no point in trying to discuss anything here – words are twisted to mean whatever you people feel like and then you proceed to argue against the imaginary point. Again (despite the freedom of expression allowed here), the attitude many here have displayed to a frum Jew is absolutely reminiscent to that of Der Stürmer.

Scott Rosenberg, I may be wrong about you, after all. Given a chance you might yet, G-d forbid, leave a skid-mark on history. Next to Pfefferkorn and his ilk.

[Shmarya]

Scott Rosenberg, I may be wrong about you, after all. Given a chance you might yet, G-d forbid, leave a skid-mark on history. Next to Pfefferkorn and his ilk.

Can't win on facts. Can't win on logic. Resort to calling opponents Nazis and antisemities.

Hasidim.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

speak from personal experience--along with thousands of others.

Posted by: tanya | December 02, 2009 at 09:00 AM

Get off it already.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Can this be "chabadnik attorney?" Just kidding :( Posted by: nachos | December 01, 2009 at 03:36 PM

Nachos: Thank you, you made my day.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Shmarya: The level of control and dignity that you have maintained in this post in the face of insults and abuse lends you an ear of credibility far above your detractors. I would have totally lost my cool.

Tanya should cut her rhetoric and learn a lesson from you and she might get a sympathetic ear from someone.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Rob Wisler: You remind of one of my past Rosh Yeshivas from LA who I admire greatly.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Tanya: Do you really belive that all Lubavitchers are phonies in their care for Yidden? I understand you had a bad experience. I have found the majority of Lubavitchers to care more about others than themselves.

[Asa]

"But rejoice, I am done commenting on this blog. There is no point in trying to discuss anything here – words are twisted to mean whatever you people feel like and then you proceed to argue against the imaginary point."

Chickening out, huh? Very predictable. No one's twisted your points, Joe, ever. We've made the effort to have reasonable common-sense- and logic-based discussions with you. You respond with rants and insults.

You think you're the only one who disagrees on this blog? You're not. But there are those who disagree with class and dignity, and those who disagree like children who don't know why the sky is blue yet insist on arguing adult matters with adults. Not our fault you can't cut it here. Grow up.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Asa: Don't blame Joe. Its a tough crowd here.

Joe: Don't give up. There are certain arguments with some people that you can't win. Some people are arguing an agenda not a specific issue. It would be me trying to argue with a Mishichist that the Rebbe OBM isn't Moshiach. You would do alot more for your cause to portray yourself with integrity. Try to pick a general theme or agenda that you think might lend a positive outlook to your cause or that may be argued with in the confines and limitations of those you wish to convince. Remember you won't be able to convince a Meshichist that the Rebbe isn't Moshiach so why try?

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Joe: Read WSC's posts. and/or Especially Shmarya's posts (on a good day) You may learn a good art of blogging or debating lesson.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Joe: don't kid yourself, I made the same resolution, its impossible to ignore this blog, unless you drink alot of Kool-Aid with vodka. That does really work by the way.

I was a at a farbrengen and they brought me a cup of Kool-Aid (as a joke) to say LiChaim. I broke my diet for that Kool-Aid.

[tanya]

Chabadnik Attorney,
My opinion is based on experience, plain and simple. I am on Shmarya's side. I don't get your point.

[justice seeker]

I miss Marc, I kind of thought he'd show up and plead his case that it does no good to keep Rothstein in jail, its only more costly to society. He ought to be released and pay some sort of fine! Unless, of course, Marc is Chabad and differentiates between SMR and this miscreant. Come back Marc I miss you!

[WoolSilkCotton]

++Chabadnik Attorney | December 02, 2009 at 12:11 PM++

Thanks, CA!

[tanya]

CA, you need to apologize.

[tanya]

And, CA, just to clarify, I do not trust even a one Lubavich. Not a one!!
They have effectively TURNED ME OFF!!

[cashcashcash]

shmarya

would you return a donation from Scotty Rothstein?
let say a million dollars to FM?

[shneerhere]

Getting back on topic....

I think the bottom line regarding the picture is whether or not it is 1)ethical and 2)newsworthy to post a pic of a money recipient next to the money provider if the recipient was not aware that the monies were a product of criminal activities.

If Madoff gave $$ to Bloomberg (did he?) would a big headline pic of Bloomberg shaking hands with Madoff be appropriate? Would Bloomberg be 'guilted' by association? Or is it just news?

[WoolSIlkCotton]

Shneerhere, you can bet the NY newspapers would put that photo on page 1, especially the Post and the Daily News, even if no direct accusation was being made in the story.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

CA, you need to apologize. Posted by: tanya | December 02, 2009 at 04:41 PM

If I have offended you then I apologize for doing so.

I have a friend who was mugged at gunpoint by a black person. He doesn't hate or distrust African Americans. He understands that anytime you have a group of people who can be collectively identified by a commonality, such as the color of their skin, their mode of dress, the language they speak etc., it is possible to identify the actions of individuals as reflecting negatively upon the entire group. He understands that to do that is called bigotry.

You have previously advised me that you were highly insulted that I felt your beliefs were bigoted. I don't mean it as an insult, but the fact is they are.

I am not minimizing any hurt or suffering you may personally experienced.

Just out of curiosity I was wondering if you could tell me your age or at leaste within a range, like under 20 - over 20 but under 30.

I have to log off. I can't blog from my Bberry but I can check the posts.

Peace, CA

[Chabadnik Attorney]

And, CA, just to clarify, I do not trust even a one Lubavich. Not a one!!
They have effectively TURNED ME OFF!!Posted by: tanya | December 02, 2009 at 05:42 PM

I don't blame you, but there are alot of really good people out there in Lubavitch. People that sacrifice for you.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Sorry, I mean that would sacrifice for you.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Tanya: I am also not saying that you arn't entitled to distrust Lubabs based upon your experience. I am just saying that you may (or may not) wish to be aware that your views (although maybe justifiably) have been prejudiced and to discriminate based upon them is bigotry _ which I am not holding personally against you, as I havn't stepped into your shoes.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Peace out.

[tanya]

Peace out.

Posted by: Chabadnik Attorney | December 03, 2009 at 02:59 PM

Amein. CA, I do appreciate your peace offerings.

I am over 30 under 70. (lol)

I think they, the Lubavich, are all a bunch of gangsters. They are very dangerous. I don't trust them, I think they have a mission based upon milking secular Jews who they think little of. They think nobody knows their game. Little do they know that they are transparant, at least to me.

But, if you are indeed a Chabadnik Attorney, I do not hold it against you. I just want to stay as far away from them as I can.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Tanya, since your are over 30, I have a new found respect for you. You can't be over 39 though. Its funny because one of my complaints against my brethern is that they hold secular jews in high esteem based upon their wealth, statuts, fame or accomplishments. I mean really hold them in esteem and just to milk them.

Its been my expereince that many of the Chabad shluchim are sincere ernest people who dedicate their lives to spreading Yiddishkeit. There are some that are flamboyant and others that may be a bissul meshugah but even most of them at the end of day are working for what they believe to be a higher purpose.

I am from New England where everything is much more normal than say on the West coast for example, and the Lubavitchers here are quite caring and dedicated.

I think a few bad apples ruin it for the rest of us. Listen I am far from a saint and I have done things in life that i regret that could be embarassing to me and because I identify as a Lubavitcher to Lubavitch. On the other hand I am constantly working to improve myself and I have done alot of good in this world so far (or so people tell me). Would you suggest that I take off my kippah, shave my beard and tuck in my tsitsits because I am a shmuck that will probably cause a chilul Hashem some day? Would you suggest that it my religiosity that has caused me to act unethically? Maybe without my faith I would be twice as worse of a person than I am now.

Reminds me of a BT who had a nervous breakdown (someone close to me) and his family blamed it on becoming religious. Fact is the guy was always bipolar and was untreated and the breakdown would have happened no matter what he was doing. He had a speedy recovery and has a good life now, probably due to the structure and faith of his beliefs.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

I mean hold them in real esteem and not just to milk them.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Tanya: I have to sign out, but I want to thank you for suffering my comments and entertaining my thoughts and discussion. I feel I can learn alot from ernest and sincere discussions with people that have a different persepective than me, but I don't often get the opportunity.

[tanya]

Thank you, CA, for your thoughtful and seemingly sincere posting.
Personally, I am sorry to have so negative a view of Chabad, but I was stung, really stung, and I saw how this particular Lubav weaseled his way around the vulnerable and unsuspecting.
And you're right, I have generalized.
Your sincerity, however, has perhaps make a little dot of light in the darkness.
Thank you for that.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Tanya: My plan once upon a time was to become a Rabbi but I didn't feel deserving. I placed my dilema before one of my teachers. He said that if I was sincere then I should do it despite my short comings. (He didn't know how short they were. So I had to ignore his advice) I often regret that decision - but if I ever get my life in order I think I should revisit my prior interests.

Thank you for your kind words. And you don't have to tell me there are alot of sickos out there. I say trust no one - regardless of race, color, creed, national origin, religous persuasion, sexual orientation etc. Sad but maybe true enough.

By the way - I will personally take a few of my buddies and take that creep - you refer to- into a dark alley.