Scores Of Chabad Followers Travel To SD To Support Rubashkin

Devotion and respect for the Rubashkin family is what draws the men to support a fellow member of their Hasidim, a branch of Judaism that translates to “the pious.” They know Rubashkin as the former teacher at an Atlanta Jewish school explaining his faith to young pupils.

Scores of Orthodox Jews travel to SD to support respected spiritual leader in bank fraud trial
By Nigel Duara, Associated Press

SIOUX FALLS, S.D. (AP) — In the musty conference room of a South Dakota hotel, Sholom Rubashkin helps a disheveled man in a hooded sweat shirt wrap black bands around his left arm and head. Attached to each is a black box containing inscriptions from the Torah.

“It’s on your arm close to your heart, on your head close to your thoughts,” Rubashkin, a leader in the Orthodox Jewish community, tells Robert Graham in a thick Brooklyn accent. Graham nods.

For the 50-year-old Rubashkin, and the dozens of Orthodox Jewish men who arrive almost daily from across the country to support him, such spiritual guidance is partly why God led him to his federal trial in Sioux Falls.

The former manager of Iowa kosher slaughterhouse Agriprocessors Inc. is accused of defrauding a St. Louis bank and, if convicted, could spend the rest of his life in prison. But for now, he’s spreading his spiritual message to people like Graham, a South Dakota Jewish man who was only remotely familiar with the broadest outlines of his religion’s traditions.

That devotion and respect for the Rubashkin family is what draws the men to support a fellow member of their Hasidim, a branch of Judaism that translates to “the pious.” Its members are easily identifiable in long black coats, fedoras and beards. They know Rubashkin more as the former teacher at an Atlanta Jewish school explaining his faith to young pupils.

“They have a solemn faith it’s going to go the way it should,” said Graham, a bus driver from Sioux Falls. “Even if it comes back guilty, they would say that’s what God wanted.”

While they pray in the hotel conference room, a jury of seven women and five men discuss in a courthouse five blocks away whether Rubashkin is guilty of 91 counts including bank, wire and mail fraud. They carry a combined maximum prison sentence of more than 1,000 years.

Rubashkin also will face a second federal trial on 72 immigration charges.

Despite the uncertainty, the conference room is anything but somber. As it has been for weeks, the room is filled with men who have been arriving and departing in waves, about 10 at a time.

At one table sit two Orthodox Jewish men who joined four others in a Dodge Caravan on Saturday night in Brooklyn. They drove in shifts nearly nonstop to Sioux Falls, roughly 1,400 miles away from their New York City borough, stopping only for gas and to pray.

They’re smiling and eager to talk about their faith and Rubashkin, a man they had only met once or twice. Although confident that he will be freed, they say any verdict would be God’s will.

“We believe everything is by divine providence,” said Zalman Levin, 23. “Coming to see him, it’s not a religious duty. It’s something we should do. We consider the whole community a family. Even if we would have never met him before.”

Levin grew up in Palo Alto, Calif., but is studying at a Jewish school in Crown Heights, a Brooklyn neighborhood with a large Orthodox population. He and Rubashkin are Lubavitchers, a branch of the Hasidic movement in Orthodox Judaism. They met once in Brooklyn, when Levin was about 15.

Levin said that because they share a faith, he at least owes Rubashkin a visit. It’s difficult, he said, for outsiders to understand why the men have been regularly rolling into this city of about 125,000.

To them, Rubashkin and his father Aaron are the ideal Lubavitchers, men who founded Agriprocessors Inc. in northeast Iowa, far from the lives they knew in New York, and supplied inexpensive kosher food to Jewish men and women who otherwise couldn’t afford it.

To many, the Rubashkins’ image in Crown Heights is of generous and devout people who donated money without a second thought and opened a restaurant that didn’t charge those who couldn’t pay, said Isaac Gurewitz, who traveled to Sioux Falls with Levin.

Rubashkins’ trial began Oct. 12, moved to South Dakota in part because of pretrial publicity in Iowa. At least 60 Hasidim packed in an overflow room in the Sioux Falls federal courthouse. They came from Brooklyn, Minnesota, Chicago, corners of the country with small Orthodox populations and even Italy. They rocked back and forth while reading from the Torah, and flocked to Rubashkin when he stepped outside during court breaks for a cigarette.

Levin acknowledges that the Hasidim are oddities to the locals — during jury selection, one South Dakota man confused them with the Amish.

“It’s a bit of a strange sight,” he said with a smile. “You haven’t seen many people like us.”

Former Agriprocessors employees have testified that Rubashkin personally directed them to create fake invoices. Days before an immigration raid in May 2008, former employees said Rubashkin scrambled to get new documents for his workers, at least 389 of whom were found to be illegal immigrants.

Rubashkin’s defense attorney has argued that Rubashkin never read the loan agreement with St. Louis-based First Bank and tried to show Rubashkin as a bumbling businessman in over his head.

Rubashkin’s son Getzel said his father has been a calming influence on his worried family. He said he’s amazed by his father’s perseverance, but shares his faith in a verdict of not guilty.

But the allegations weren’t the focus of a recent morning in a hotel room packed with kosher food. The Lubavitcher men instead wanted to talk about a new believer.

Graham, the Sioux Falls man, said Rubashkin showed him last week how to apply the tefillin, the black arm bands attached to Torah scripture. To the Lubavitchers, it was Graham’s initiation into Jewish society, and one of the reasons they believe God led them to Sioux Falls.

“This room is the biggest synagogue here,” Levin said, laughing.

Here's another media report that doesn't ask these Chabadniks who pays for their trips, who pays for their food, and who pays for their housing.

The answer to these unasked questions? Chabad's tax exempt Rubashkin Pidyon Shvuyim Fund – the same fund that pays Rubashkin's attorneys and that pays for his family's housing, food and transportation.

The article also does not ask these Chabadniks how their opinions of Rubashkin's charity and saintliness might change is Rubashkin is convicted on fraud and/or illegal immigration charges.

If these Rubashkin and Lubavitcher hasidim were Evangelical followers of a major televangelist, you can be those questions would have been asked.

I also think that reporters have much closer and more frequent access to Rubashkin now, during the trial, than they ever had before.

What they see is a nice man who seems down to earth and kind, and who seems to be more concerned with wrapping tefillin on a local Jew than he is with his own future.

What they miss is that Rubashkin holds the act of putting tefillin on another Jew to be of special religious import. It is an act sanctified by his rebbe-messiah, and act that rebbe-messiah said would save Jews from danger. And it brings the resurrection of that rebbe-messiah another step closer.

Reporters also see this apparently kind man and think, at least on a subconscious level, that he appears to be too kind to be crooked.

What reporters miss here is that a good portion of swindlers, confidence men and Mob bosses also seem kind in social settings, and many are known for their charity. That doesn't make them any less guilty of their crimes.

Al Capone could be an extremely charming man. I know this from several sources – including one of his cellmates in Federal prison. Bugsy Siegel was a man women loved, a man who was on the A List for Hollywood parties and who hung out with the leading actors and actresses of his day. He was an absolute charmer – unless you made the mistake of calling him Bugsy to his face. If you did that, chances are he'd knock you cold without warning.

You'd think by now reporters would be sophisticated enough to understand that even seemingly kind men commit crime.

The first bad word I ever heard about Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin was from a fellow Jew, a fellow Chabadnik, a fellow rabbi, who complained Rubashkin shorted his pay and forced him to work so late on Fridays that he often made it home, filthy and covered in blood, just as Sabbath candle lighting had begun. I thought this rabbi was simply exaggerating until I heard the same story from another Chabadnik. Rubashkin forced him to work too late on Fridays – and then Rubashkin stole his money.

I heard those complaints in the late 1980s. After the Forward's report on Rubashkin abuse of employees broke in 2006, I ran into a Chabadnik intimately familiar with the kosher meat business. He is also a friend of Rubashkin. We got to talking about the Forward's report. The Chabadnik dismissed the claims out of hand. I responded by telling the stories of those two Chabadniks Rubashkin had allegedly mistreated and stolen from. "It's true," the Chabadnik familiar with the kosher meat business said, "that Rubashkin has a reputation of being very hard on his employees." The employees he was talking about Rubashkin being hard on were Jews.

Each of these three Chabadniks is currently supporting Rubashkin. Chabad's version of Omerta is far stronger than the truth, or the law, or the obligation to treat workers fairly.

It was like this with Al Capone when he was going down, and with many other Mob bosses. It was only after their falls were complete and the some time had passed that you began to hear stories about the nasty things Capone and others did to their own.

People forget Bugsy Siegel, Meyer Lansky and other Lower East Side and Brownsville criminals got their starts by robbing, beating, and extorting. And many of their victims were other Jews.

The Bugsy Siegel people remember started Las Vegas and lived a life of glamour. And Meyer Lansky is remembered as the accountant / CEO of the Mob, a man who ate lox and bagels in the delis of Miami Beach, contributed heavily to Jewish causes, and walked his dog near the ocean.

But no one who knows anything about crime in America would think or write of any of these men as innocents.

That is a lesson today's journalists have not yet learned.

Comments

[Rob Wisler]

It's very easy to do "physical" things such as putting on t'fillin, keeping separate dishes, wearing "haredi" fashions (the Borsalino fedora etc). It's the behavioral aspects of Torah (justice and charity for fellow men -- ALL men -- not only members of your own sect) that these idiots miss.

[Just a question]

I would give $100 bucks for a picture of that hotel room at check out time.

[al Farabi]

All excellent points Shmarya. I think you should add, if you didn't say so (I may have missed it there), that it is also a hallmark of non-jewish mafiosi that they are always heavily involved in the church. Cast your mind back to any movie about the mafia and there are images of a guy blowing someone's head off and then sitting down for a meal with the family and the local priest. It is an interesting phenomenon that criminals are often intimately associated with ministers of religion (I guess one can understand that) - however, more disturbing is the willingness of the ministers to be associated with criminals and to turn a blind eye to their often well publicized criminal activities - money will do that I guess.

[seymour]

why do not reporters just ask them do you think the accusation are true? Or, if there are true what should be done?

Then they will see it has nothing to do about guilt or innocence.

There is a disconnect in many people, not only frumies. Many think a criminal, or even worse killers like the Nazis somehow cannot be nice in other areas of their lives. many Nazis could have been very loving fathers and been know to be a very nice guy and not violent. But in the camps could have no problem murdering thousands.

To some this is simple impossible, and cannot believe that the nice man/woman they know could be that other person.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Seymour, good points. I don't like jumping to Holocaust analogies on every topic, but take a look at what nice people the Auschwitz staff were after their workday was over:

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/
online/ssalbum/?content=2

If idiots want to keep p!ssing their money away by donating to Rubashkin, let them go ahead. Someone ought to report the fund to the IRS.

[harold]

This is one of the things that I always admired about the chassidim; their strong sense of extended family.

[state of disgust]

Where did Nigel's article appear? I've yet to find a paper that picked it up.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Harold, if a member of my family were in trouble for criminal activity, I would advise him:
1. Get a good lawyer and do what he says.
2. Keep your mouth shut, go low profile, and live an exemplary law-abiding life while the heat is on.
3. Act contrite and apologetic in front of the judge or any camera.
4. Voluntarily go for psychological counseling to make it look like you're trying to address your personal issues.
5. Voluntarily take business ethics courses, also to make it look like you're trying to address your personal issues.
6. Make donations to appropriate charities, like the nonJewish social services in Postville, and Hispanic immigrant advocacy groups, all to improve your image and show the judge that you're serious about making amends.

SMR has done NONE of these things. Who in the 'family' has suggested any of these? How sad. The 'family' are a bunch of enablers.

[seymour]

WoolSilkCotton

I just picked on extreme cases of evil people, who where very nice and pleasant in other aspects of their lives.

Very view people are evil in every single aspect of their lives.

[seymour]

SMR has done NONE of these things. Who in the 'family' has suggested any of these? How sad. The 'family' are a bunch of enablers.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | November 11, 2009 at 09:44 AM

I think you are missing a major issue here.
First. frum=innocent no amount of evidence will change that fundamental believe
second, we are Jews we have our halacha laws, and the secular laws courts have no right to judge us since we are judges by a much better system G-d and beis din

[WoolSIlkCotton]

It is not too late for SMR to start the WoolSilkCotton 6 Step Program to lessen the severity of the judgment. Maybe it's not too late to start giving the jury the impression that he's trying to address his 'mistakes' and 'issues'. It would definitely help with sentencing.
Similarly, Michael Vick, Michael Milken and others have done the WSC Program with good success.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

Seymour, I realize that the Rubashkin Cheerleaders have zero insight, and that they think the way you summarized at 9:52am.
Thus, there is no hope for any push in the right direction to come from them.

SMR's only hope is if a good family friend, non-Chabad, would grab him by the lapels and somehow get it through SMR's thick head that the WSC 6 Step Plan is his only hope.

[ML]

Very, very, very few people would even consider the fact that they are evil. Evil is commonly viewed as something outside the self, but the fact is that we all have the capacity for evil.

[AGRI-vated Angel]

WSC -

Your [November 11, 2009 at 09:44 AM] comment is truth.

Thank you.

[Anonymous Shlucha]

Honestly, now you're comparing him to a Nazi? Gimme a break!

Stop going overboard with all of this. He'll be judged soon enough, no need to make stupid comparisons.

I was one of those people who didn't understand that "bad guys" can be really nice in other areas of their lives. I was educated in real life soon enough.

Bottom line is, be an honest person. Don't lie and cheat and steal. if you can manage that, you won't have problems with the law.

[Getthefactsman]

Collive.com covers the trial very well.

[seymour]

Posted by: Anonymous Shlucha | November 11, 2009 at 10:16 AM

I did not compare him to a Nazi. I just picked an extreme case to show evil and goodness can be in one person

[seymour]

Posted by: Anonymous Shlucha | November 11, 2009 at 10:16 AM

I did not compare him to a Nazi. I just picked an extreme case to show evil and goodness can be in one person

[Althelion]

I don't think the chabad powers-that-be really care if Rubashkin is convicted or not. The pre-holocaust eastern european jewish fetish which these folks live by absolutely NEEDS an external threat to keep their communities together. In the Rubashkin case, that threat is the US government. On a day-to-day level, the threat is the boogieman goy.

The chabad leaders will win regardless of how the verdict against the "pious" Rubashkin turns out. If he's guilty, they have a great martyr to pray for; unjustly imprisoned like the rebbes of old - back in good ole russia. If he's innocent, thank God for truth and justice.

In many ways, it might be more beneficial to the chabad leaders for him to be found guilty. That way, the chabad leaders can tell the chabad followers, "See, we are being attacked! We have always been attacked! We always will be attacked! Cling together children! Let's all sing a song and wait for moshiach.

It's all very sad.

[Yerachmiel Lopin]

Who am I with my inferior litvak brain to judge these things. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He is a nice man.

I say, when he is sentenced for 120+ years he should definitely be put in the section for nice white collar criminals. If the system is really fair they will put him the section for nice white collar criminals with black hats. Just think of all those opportunities to concentrate on learning and praying without being distracted by duplicitous employees who are misleading him for their own private motives.

[CH_JEW]

Here's another media report that doesn't ask these Chabadniks who pays for their trips, who pays for their food, and who pays for their housing.
The answer to these unasked questions? Chabad's tax exempt Rubashkin Pidyon Shvuyim Fund – the same fund that pays Rubashkin's attorneys and that pays for his family's housing, food and transportation.

I dont know why you keep on saying this it is absolutely FALSE!!

I drove cross country with a group of friends and the gas money was paid by us we stayed for three nights in a motel near the corthouse we paid the bill.
Yes, we are LUBAVITCH BUT WE PAID THE BILL
NOT THE DEFENSE FUND!!

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

There is a very simple way to settle this issue - the Pidyon Shvuyim Fund should post an accounting of how they are spending the money.

[harold]

If nothing else, I'll go for the verdict or the sentencing

Speaking about paying, Scott, will you be at the courthouse when the decision is read?

[Getthefactsman]

Who really cares if the fund pays for it - Thats one of the reasons the fund was set up for. You people need to get a life.

[tanya]

CH_JEW, if you hand in your receipts, you will be reimbursed. Now you know that, don't you.
Keep those receipts!!

[Office of the Chief Rabbi]

the WoolSilkCotton 6 Step Program
1. Get a good lawyer and do what he says.
2. Keep your mouth shut, go low profile, and live an exemplary law-abiding life while the heat is on.
3. Act contrite and apologetic in front of the judge or any camera.
4. Voluntarily go for psychological counseling to make it look like you're trying to address your personal issues.
5. Voluntarily take business ethics courses, also to make it look like you're trying to address your personal issues.
6. Make donations to appropriate charities, like the nonJewish social services in Postville, and Hispanic immigrant advocacy groups, all to improve your image and show the judge that you're serious about making amends.

Sounds like the old Teshuvah, Tefillah, Tzedakah approach to lessen the severity of the decree. All we need know is the date of the sentencing and Yochanan can write the song.

[harold]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3802914,00.html

Chabad rabbi decorated by Queen of England

Aryeh Sufrin honored by Queen Elizabeth II for his work with youth fighting drug addiction in Essex

Nissan Shtrauchler Published: 11.11.09, 08:20 / Israel Jewish Scene

Rabbi Aryeh Sufrin, director of the Chabad Lubavitch center in Ilford, Essex, was among the receivers of the Member of British Empire award (MBE) two weeks ago.

The honor is traditionally awarded to those who have made significant contributions to the English nation, and Rabbi Sufrin was acknowledged for his work with youth fighting drug addiction.

Sufrin has been running a support center for young drug and alcohol addicts for the past 18 years. The center caters to Christian, Muslim, and Jewish teens, and Sufrin even employs an Imam who works with Muslim addicts.

During the ceremony Queen Elizabeth II was mindful enough to refrain from shaking the rabbi's hand so as not to embarrass him, but did attach the ribbon to his suit herself.

Sufrin described the experience in an interview with the official Chabad website. He said the queen told him what a pleasure it was for her to award him the honor and noted how challenging his work must be.

Several years ago Prince Edward, the queen's son, contributed to the construction of a new building for the rabbi's foundation, titled Drugsline. During the ceremony the queen inquired after progress in construction, much to the rabbi's amazement.

Sufrin said he was overwhelmed with the fact that an 83-year-old woman who had spoken with so many people prior to him remembered to ask about the venture and was equally moved by the fact she had refrained from shaking his hand.

[Asa]

What's your point, Harold?

[WoolSilkCotton]

++Office of the Chief Rabbi | November 11, 2009 at 02:08 PM++

OCR, perhaps Chabad will incorporate my program into their nusach for the High Holidays. It can be inserted between the Unsaneh Tokef and Kedushah.

[Anonymous Shlucha]

I don't think the chabad powers-that-be really care if Rubashkin is convicted or not.

Posted by: Althelion

Althelion: You're wrong they care very much. I know someone who is a close friend of Rubashkin. All of these people agree that Rubashkin is (1) not only telling the truth the whole way along but (2) he is a tzaddik and is being tested, but G-d willing will not get jail time.

I admire the way they stick by their friends.... but in the end they are just enablers, and cannot see the truth.

[seymour]

I don't think the chabad powers-that-be really care if Rubashkin is convicted or not.

Posted by: Althelion

Althelion: You're wrong they care very much. I know someone who is a close friend of Rubashkin. All of these people agree that Rubashkin is (1) not only telling the truth the whole way along but (2) he is a tzaddik and is being tested, but G-d willing will not get jail time.

I admire the way they stick by their friends.... but in the end they are just enablers, and cannot see the truth.

Posted by: Anonymous Shlucha | November 11, 2009 at 03:23 PM

if he is telling the truth that means he is guilty since he admitted some crimes

[WoolSilkCotton]

++Anonymous Shlucha | November 11, 2009 at 03:23 PM++

They're a family that goes back generations to the old country. They've been very generous to many individuals, the poor, yeshiva bochurs, and anyone who just shows up at the house or at the restaurant (Crown) in Boro Park. They also give very very generously to Chabad yeshivas and organizations.

As a result, the community is totally in their camp. A Rubashkin can do no wrong.

It's a remarkable mix of genuine love and devotion to the Rubashkin family, combined with a sycophantic bootlicking usually reserved for Mafia capos and drug kingpins.

Now, combine that with a mental state in which paranoia, persecution complexes, and an exaggerated sense of self-importance routinely colors virtually every thought and action by everyone in the community.

The ongoing fiasco in Postville (and now Sioux Falls) is perfect fodder for the mindset composed of the above elements.

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

For those readers in Iowa who keep hearing about the Crown Steak House/Soup Kitchen/Deli/Restaurant in Brooklyn, you can see a photo on this page about Brooklyn:
http://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigmap/brooklyn/boroughpark/13thave/55th-45th/index.htm
It is seen in the 9th photo from the top. As this listing in New York's free weekly notes,
http://www.villagevoice.com/locations/crown-deli-153257
there are no steaks on the menu.
The inspection from the NYC Department of Health shows violations typical of a diner:
http://167.153.150.32/RI/web/detail.do?method=detail&restaurantId=40920598&inspectionDate=20090504

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

Photo of Crown Restaurant in in the 9th photo from the top:
http://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigmap/brooklyn/boroughpark/13thave/55th-45th/index.htm

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

There is no such thing as a free lunch:

4909 13 AVENUE, BROOKLYN 11219
Inspection Date: 09/04/2007
Violation points: 62

Establishment Closed by DOHMH. Violations were cited in the following area(s) and those requiring immediate action were addressed.
Sanitary Violations 1.) Food not protected from potential source of contamination during storage, preparation, transportation, display or service.

After three more inspections:

4909 13 AVENUE, BROOKLYN 11219
Inspection Date: 10/02/2007
Violation points: 3

Establishment re-opened by DOHMH

Sanitary Violations 1.) Non-food contact surface improperly constructed. Unacceptable material used. Non-food contact surface or equipment improperly maintained.

(From the NYC Department of Health web site)

[WoolSilkCotton]

I must confess that I've eaten at Crown numerous times. It's on 13th Ave near 45th St. The food is traditional deli. Sandwiches, side dishes, soups all tasty. The meatballs are superb. The rye bread is a little weak, though, not up to speed with otherwise traditional deli fare.
The ladies who work there are very Yiddishe Mame, kind and friendly, even to those of us who don't look religious. Prices are remarkably cheap (ok, that's the main reason i go there). Sometimes a homeless-looking person stumbles in, and they seat him and serve him a full meal, and don't appear to charge him. As much as you despise all things Rubashkin, I couldn't help but admire that.

Oh, well, I confess. I like Crown Deli/Restaurant.

[WoolSilkCotton]

The cleanliness there is typical Brooklyn kosher eatery. That's not exactly a compliment. But, the counter and the dining room seemed clean enough.

[Isa]

Regarding:
""They're a family that goes back generations to the old country. They've been very generous to many individuals, the poor, yeshiva bochurs, and anyone who just shows up at the house or at the restaurant (Crown) in Boro Park. They also give very very generously to Chabad yeshivas and organizations.""

Ever hear of Southern Hospitality??
Yes sir even during the days of the slave plantations these Southern Gentlemen were kind, gave to the poor and all that...

Just so long as you were White!

[harold]

What's your point, Harold?

No special point here. This is a forum that is "Covering Orthodox Judaism since 2004" so I figured I would post a news story. I understand that one is supposed to only post negative stories about jews - chabad in particular - but since this is not a forum where people can start a thread I thought here is a good a place as any to inform the public about a chabad rabbi being decorated by the Queen of England. Quite an accomplishment in my eyes.

[Asa]

No doubt it is quite an honor, and it seems the fellow is quite worthy of it. If he is what he seems to be, he's fresh air to me.

Look, Harold, no one here believes that every single Chassid is a scoundrel or a scumbag. Whoever so generalizes any group or race or gender is infantile and ignorant. I know several decent, kind, good-hearted chassids and their families myself, even if I think their beliefs and attitudes toward the world at large and even about religion are at best skewed and sometimes ridiculous.

And Shmarya has posted and does post laudatory articles about individual chassids. Look through the archives and you'll find them. I have. But you seem to come to this site not with the intention of arguing your point, but rather to air sarcastic remarks and insults. Why don't you take the time to understand that the posters here are reasonable individuals, and would respect you for arguing in a comparable reasonable manner your dissenting point of view? I know I would. In fact, I'd love to hear it. But if all you intend to do here is to bark at us and the owner of the site, what kind of reception do you expect? What kind of response? What kind of respect?

If you have something to say, say it, don't bark it. Be reasonable, and I, at the very least, would engage you.

[Asa]

One more thing, if I may:

If you step back and look at the fact that the chassidic world has been a very secretive and deceptive one, in that the very word, chassid, meaning pious, along with their so-called pious dress and outwardly pious-seeming religious behavior, you'll find that those in the Jewish world who may have been sucked into the idealistic, fantastic concept of chassidus and their lifestyle might need the stark contrast this site provides.

YOu have to understand that the great majority of Baal teshuvas and converts, such as myself, who are at a weak point in their lives and are seeking out their ease in some kind of spiritual salvation, are very impressionable and very vulnerable to the propaganda with which the chassids very cleverly present them. I have lost a friend to Jewish fanaticism, and I was close myself.

You're not being objective. The point is, when it comes to a group whose presentation is the height of piety, but whose core seems to be rotting if not rotten, a half-assed, balanced site won't do the trick. You need to show the vile insides of what on the outside appears beautiful and very, very alluring.

[harold]

So let me understand a story like "Exclusive: Haredim Issue Women's Stocking Color And Thickness Ban" is of relevance but a story like "Chabad rabbi decorated by Queen of England" is not noteworthy.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Harold, go visit VIN and see how the story was treated.

Many comments ridiculed and scorned the rabbi for accepting an award that may have had Christian origins.

Still others discussed at great length about whether he would shake her hand if she so offered.

Practically no one mentioned that it was an honor and Kiddush Hashem for the rabbi to have accomplished what he did and, for that, receive recognition by the Queen of England, once considered the most powerful person in the world.

BTW Harold, the Queen almost never offers to shake anyone's hand . That privilege is reserved for the most honored heros of England. You can count on your hand the number of times in history that the Queen has offered her hand to anyone.

That being said, I agree with you that it was a praiseworthy event. Too bad the orthodox media scorned the rabbi's accomplishment, and FM ignored it.

[INFORMED]

Does anyone know the name of the hotel? I would be happy to provide a picture of the room when they check out. I am sure there is more than 1 room. with any luck it is a chain hotel.

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

As was posted in the pinned post, it is the Country Inn and Suites.

[IAtroutfisher]

DM Register reports jury coming back with a verdict this afternoon.