Rubashkin Supporters Crowd Courtroom

"All these people feel that supporting him is worth the trip to Sioux Falls," Getzel Rubashkin said. "My father is loved and respected by many people, only a minute percentage of which have been physically able to attend the trial."

Rubashkin draws a loyal following
BY GRANT SCHULTE • Des Moines Register

Sioux Falls, S.D. - Sholom Rubashkin awakens early in his downtown Sioux Falls motel, prays at 6:45 a.m., chats with his lawyers and heads four blocks south for the legal fight of his life.

Behind him, in a wood-paneled federal courtroom, throngs of Orthodox Jews with beards and skullcaps gather to watch his trial.

The unusual scene has repeated itself for almost a month now, as Agriprocessors Inc.'s former vice president stands trial on 91 financial fraud charges.

Supporters have come to Sioux Falls, S.D. - a quiet Midwestern city of about 142,400, with one synagogue listed in its phone book - from Australia, England, New York and other Midwestern cities. The stream of well-wishers has filled hotel rooms and turned heads on the street.

The supporters mostly keep to themselves, praying every morning and watching Monday Night Football and the World Series at night. Many have brought their own kosher food from New York, Minneapolis and other locales to adhere to their strict religious diet.

"It is a sacrifice," said Shmuel Raices, a rabbinical student from New York. "This is a very busy time for me. But you know what? Sholom would do this for me in a second."

Rubashkin's son, Getzel, 25, said his father has earned the support through years of charity work and other good deeds. The Orthodox Jewish community has followed the case closely, he said.

"All these people feel that supporting him is worth the trip to Sioux Falls," the younger Rubashkin said. "My father is loved and respected by many people, only a minute percentage of which have been physically able to attend the trial."

Prosecutors say Rubashkin's support in the Orthodox Jewish community and his charity work are irrelevant in the eyes of the law.

Rubashkin, 50, is charged with 91 financial crimes, including bank, mail and wire fraud, money laundering, and ignoring an order to pay livestock providers in the time required by law. He faces a maximum 1,280-year prison sentence if convicted of all counts. Closing arguments are scheduled to begin Monday.

He also allegedly conspired to hire and harbor illegal immigrant workers at Agriprocessors. A second federal trial for Rubashkin on 72 immigration charges is set to begin in Sioux Falls in December. He has pleaded not guilty.

Rubashkin critics blame the high-profile meat man for creating conditions in Postville, Ia., that made it a ripe target for law enforcement. Federal immigration agents raided Agriprocessors in May 2008 in a crackdown that exposed the alleged fraud but destabilized the local economy.

The raid, code-named "Operation Cedar Valley Junction," was based on evidence and tips collected over two years.

Assistant U.S. Attorney C.J. Williams objected to extensive references to Rubashkin's religion or charity work Thursday, before the former slaughterhouse executive testified. Defense lawyers countered that some references were needed to explain Rubashkin's appearance and his behavior at Agriprocessors.

"In a court of law, everyone is equal," Williams said Thursday. "Frankly, what Mr. Rubashkin does for charity doesn't matter."

Some supporters expressed anger at what they view as an unfair crackdown on Rubashkin and the plant he managed for years. Orthodox Jewish supporters point to the industry practice of hiring immigrant workers and ask why Agriprocessors was targeted.

"This is a witch hunt," said David Moskovitz, an Orthodox Jew from Chicago. "And you can quote me."

The supporters range in age from teenagers to men with white beards hanging over their chests. They squeeze into rows of wooden courtroom benches, muttering prayers and listening to testimony. Some sway back and forth - "shuckling" in Yiddish - while reading psalms.

At one point during testimony, U.S. District Judge Linda Reade admonished one supporter for sleeping in the courtroom. Reade warned the group again Thursday when a few spoke out loud during Rubashkin's turn on the witness stand.

Rubashkin has embraced supporters during down time at the courthouse. One well-wisher from Chicago was talking to a reporter from The Des Moines Register during a break last week when Rubashkin walked up, patted the man's back, grinned, and looked at the reporter.

"This is a good man," Rubashkin said, then turned and walked off.

The Register's entire coverage of the trial has been weak, and this piece is horrendous.

Lets start with the basics:

1. The vast majority (if not all) of the Rubashkin supporters in the court room have their expenses paid by Chabad's Rubashkin Defense Fund – the same fund that pays Rubashkin's attorneys. Many are Chabad rabbinical students. They may be 'sacrificing' their time, but they're not sacrificing their money.

2. Shmuel Raices is either the son or nephew of Rashi Raices who, in effect, worked for Rubashkin. She is the principal of the Chabad school in Postville – the same school Rubashkin controlled, the same school Rubashkin allegedly used to launder money. Rashi wrote an op-ed for the Register in January defending Rubashkin.

3. David Moskovitz is, I believe, related to the head of Chabad's Chicago operations, Rabbi Daniel Moskowitz.

Schulte ignores Chabad's funding, doesn't ask about familial or group ties, and writes a piece that makes it look like pious Orthodox Jews from across the world have flocked to Sioux Falls on their own to support Rubashkin, when what we have is an orchestrated campaign by the defense to create an image of a pious, kind, unassuming man who would never, ever, intentionally do wrong. And Schulte buys it all.

And then we have this:

Some supporters expressed anger at what they view as an unfair crackdown on Rubashkin and the plant he managed for years. Orthodox Jewish supporters point to the industry practice of hiring immigrant workers and ask why Agriprocessors was targeted.

"This is a witch hunt," said David Moskovitz, an Orthodox Jew from Chicago. "And you can quote me."

No doubt the quote is accurate. What is missing is what is missing in much of Schulte's work: context.

Did other plants allegedly employe 14 year olds and work them 12 or more hours per day? Did other plants allegedly steal workers' overtime pay and deny them breaks?

No, other plants did not do that. And other plants did not have two payroll systems, one for documented legal workers and one for undocumented workers.

All of these points are clearly made in court documents and are part of the public record – but, inexplicably, Schulte does not mention them. Rubashkin supporters in that courtroom should have been asked about those points – but Schulte doesn't ask. Wouldn't it be nice to know how Orthodox Jewish supporters of Rubashkin answer those points? Shouldn't that a key part of this story?

Schulte also does not mention what Rubashkin paid these workers, which his own newspaper reported was far below industry norms. And that's before you factor in what Rubashkin allegedly stole from them.

What Schulte is doing is wrong. He's abusing those undocumented workers by negating their stories, by removing them and the mistreatment they suffered from the story.

One of the abuses not yet charged was the sexual abuse of young female undocumented workers by Agriprocessors supervisors. Women who wanted to change shifts or move to less dangerous jobs had a special price they had to pay to be allowed to do it: sexually satisfy one – or, sometimes, several – Agriprocessors supervisors. (I've heard this practice goes back to at least the early- to mid-1990s, when the undocumented workers told to get on their knees and suck were Eastern Europeans.)

There was a level of dehumanization at Agriprocessors not found elsewhere, a rape that was both physical and spiritual, a rape that took place in the open, in broad daylight, a rape that everyone could see but did not, a rape that continues today in the coverage of the Des Moines Register.

Comments

[Hometown Postville]

Charlie Manson had a lot of followers too.

[Hometown Postville]

All right, so he may have been a philanthropist to his own people, but at whose expense?
Answer: Unpaid cattle growers, his immigrant slaves, Postville's utility coffers, environmental damage from waste run-off...et.al. So, is that the next defense, his actions were nothing more than of a modern-day Robinhood?

[yidandahalf]

His old man should be up there too for all the pogromist Ukranians he shipped out to Postville. Perhaps it was just out of nostalgia, remembering the days he ran away from their grandfathers. As Shmarya had said not to leave any cow unturned, there isn't much a Rubash-in would not do for gelt.
And Getzel at the ready should take a course in statistics, forsooth; "a minute percentage of those able to attend.". It's all a soft threat to demonstrate the feds are not honoring the constitution's separation of church and state law by curtailing the production of kosher meat and therefore demonstrating deep anti-semitism.
The entire medieval shtiss of religious slaughter should be done away with. All the holier than thou rollers can live like everybody else and for once shut TFU. If they feel unable to curb their lust for fressing, they can tie up an unfortunate animal in their yards and slaughter it themselves. There may be a sale on giraffes soon, that would keep them going for awhile.

[Isa]

There were two places in Houston that were hit by ICE for illegal workers, one a pallet repair place and the other some bakery. But the workers were paid a decent wage, something that the workers could save up and return home and buy a small farm with.
These two companies were hit with civil fines (cost of doing business)only.

Run a slave plantation (something that would make a hardened ICE agent puke) and the Feds will 'throw the book' at it.

[zach]

No one should be surprised by this. It's pretty standard to bring in character witnesses to get the judge to mitigate the sentence. The man was very giving to folks in his community and WAS well loved. But this, of course, is ultimately irrelevant regarding the accusation of his many criminal activities.

[R]

Well it's easy to give money to charity using money that doesn't belong to you.

[Yochanan Lavie]

If it's not one thing, it's another
Apologies to Blondie:

One thing or another they're gonna fine ya
I'm gonna Getzel Getzel Getzel Getzel
One way or another I'm gonna spin ya
I'm gonna Getzel Getzel Getzel Getzel
One way or another I'm gonna spring ya
I'm gonna meat ya meat ya meat ya
One day, maybe Moshiach zeit
I'm gonna meat ya, I'm gonna meat ya, I'll meat ya
I will drive past your shul
And if the lights are all low
I'll drink Mountain Dew

One way or another they're gonna fine ya
I'm gonna Getzel Getzel Getzel Getzel
One way or another I'm gonna spin ya
I'll Getzel, I'll Getzel
One way or another I'm gonna spring ya
I'm gonna meat ya meat ya meat ya meat ya
One day, maybe Moshiach zeit
I'm gonna meat ya, I'll meat ya

And if the lights are all out
I'll follow your bus Post-town
See if the mechitza's around

One way or another they're gonna lose ya
The judge'll give you the slip, a slip of the sentence
They're gonna lose ya [your followers], they're not just hicks, yeah [the jury]
One way or another they're gonna lose ya
The judge will click ya in the clink yeah
One way or another they're gonna lose ya
They'll have to give up the shit

I'll walk down in Israel
Stand over by the Wall
Where G-d can see it all
Find out who ya call
Lead you to the kotel hama'aravi
Some kvittels and minyanim, get lost in the crowd

One way or another I'm gonna Getzel, I'll Getzel, I'll Getzel, Getzel
Getzel, Getzel
(Where G-d can see it all, find out who ya call)
One way or another I'm gonna Getzel, I'll Getzel, I'll Getzel, Getzel
Getzel, Getzel
(Where G-d can see it all, is it Rebbe who ya call)
One way or another I'm gonna Getzel, I'll Getzel, I'll Getzel, Getzel
Getzel, Getzel
(Where G-d can see it all, is it Rebbe who ya call)
[repeat until fade]

[krewz]

"The Register's entire coverage of the trial has been weak, and this piece is horrendous."

hahaha

Shmarya your full of it, you just sit in minnesota and complain. You can get to Sioux Falls for approx. $100 each way. but for some reason you claim that the only way you're gonna go is if you get thousands!!

the difference with your reporting and Grant Shulte is that Shulte doesnt ask those specifics because he doesnt know What to ask.

you claim to know what to ask but you just stay in MN and fabricate ideas on your blog.

[yidandahalf]

YL, you are a cruel fellow. Well done!

[Yisroel Pensack]

Someone should send Shmarya's above excellent critique of this lame, softball article to the editor-in-chief of the Register.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Yid: That's the nicest thing you've ever said to me. I'm misty eyed...

[formerpostvillian]

I plan to make a killing off of my new business idea:

"Free Sholom" t-shirts

[vdal]

On the contrary it is a lot of fun when your 18 or 19 years old Bochur hanging out in Sioux Falls, S.D for a week or 2 plus free meals and free hotel room every night watching the world series, otherwise they would be stuck on Yeshiva.

[tanya]

Unbelievable, they made the female workers have oral sex with them. These effen rabbis. They said it was the supervisors who demanded these favors, who were the supervisors?? anobody know?? Where they lubavich chasidim?? I would LOVE to know, as that exact behavior is what was posed by my pious orthodox rabbi. What a guy!! or maybe I should say, what a goy!! for what kind of a good jewish rabbi would be so filthy. Yeah, filthy. So sad, so bad that they are all jewish. As I am. It sickens me to see such behavior, taking advantage of women, targeted specifically at women not pure enough to be married to them. Filthy pigs.

[state of the Jews]

1) The sexual predation was practiced by Latino supervisors. Women as young as 16 were put in compromising situations until they agreed to become a supervisor's "girlfriend." The sex was more than just oral.
2) To my knowledge - from interviews with women - no shochet or mashgiach was ever involved in this practice.
3) Latino supervisors were trained primarily by Hosam. That is who taught them the job - and all of the "fringe benefits." Hosam was famous for having engaged in this awful practice.
4) The sex took place on Agri property, often in supervisors office.
5) Supervisor #1 and #2 often offered the same comparatively easy job to different "girlfriends" which led to discord among the female workers, disrupting work flow in the plant. Any plant manager worth his salt would have put a stop to this immediately if for no other reason than the disruption it caused to production.

[tanya]

Thand you, state,

man's inhumanity to man-man's inhumanity to woman. Latino supervisors trained by Hosam. And who is Hosam?? Please tell me.

"Any plant manager worth his salt would have put a stop to this immediately if for no other reason than the disruption it caused to production."

I guess none were worth their weight in salt. How much is salt per pound?? 99 cents? So none were worth $175?? shame shame shame. Ugly workings of people. I would really like to know who Hosam is. Please inform me.

[neighbor girl]

tanya
Type "Hosam" into the Search FailedMessiah box above. You'll get an answer.

[state of the Jews]

I suggest you go back in the FM archives and check out Mohammid and Hasom Amara. They are Palestinian brothers brought by Aron Rubashkin from Israel to run the chicken line when Aron opened the plant.

Mohammid returned to Israel 6-8 months prior to the raid. Hasom fled the country just after the raid when subpoenas were delivered to the plant. While no one knows what is in the sealed indictment against Hasom, workers told me that after being turned down by HR, in order to get a job at the plant they were directed by friends to Hasom's house and spoke to him. He would then offer to sell them a junky used car and if they bought, he would arrange with Human Resources for them to get a job. If they had no money (no one did) he would arrange for them to come by his home each pay day to pay him a small amount in cash until the debt was paid off. In other words, extortion.

There is of course more, including stories of physical and verbal abuse. SMR was told by multiple people about all of this and he said he put a stop to it, which he did not. At one point I was told about a quiet evening meeting between some workers and Shalom where they complained about the treatment and shorted wages. They felt Shalom just didn't know what was going on. How did SMR handle the problem? The next day Shalom met with the supervisors and the same day the workers who had met with Shalom were fired.
This is the tip of the iceberg. There was much, much more. Hopefully some of it will come out during the next trial.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Did other plants allegedly employe 14 year olds and work them 12 or more hours per day? Did other plants allegedly steal workers' overtime pay and deny them breaks?

Did they? Have you done the research? Were they forced to work for the plant? Did the earn a living and out food on their table thanks to Rebashkin.

No, other plants did not do that. And other plants did not have two payroll systems, one for documented legal workers and one for undocumented workers.

Please provide substantiation? Have you investiagted other plants?

All of these points are clearly made in court documents and are part of the public record – but, inexplicably, Schulte does not mention them. Rubashkin supporters in that courtroom should have been asked about those points – but Schulte doesn't ask. Wouldn't it be nice to know how Orthodox Jewish supporters of Rubashkin answer those points? Shouldn't that a key part of this story?

The Rubashkins are kind gentle hearted people beloved by many.

Schulte also does not mention what Rubashkin paid these workers, which his own newspaper reported was far below industry norms. And that's before you factor in what Rubashkin allegedly stole from them.

How many workers does your company support? How many families have food on their table due to your employment?

What Schulte is doing is wrong. He's abusing those undocumented workers by negating their stories, by removing them and the mistreatment they suffered from the story.

Those undocumented workers are here illegally. They are criminals. Rubashkin, rightly or wrongly provided a sahe haven for them. What would your solution be, turn them into immigration and have them deported. You are so kind.

One of the abuses not yet charged was the sexual abuse of young female undocumented workers by Agriprocessors supervisors. Women who wanted to change shifts or move to less dangerous jobs had a special price they had to pay to be allowed to do it: sexually satisfy one – or, sometimes, several – Agriprocessors supervisors. (I've heard this practice goes back to at least the early- to mid-1990s, when the undocumented workers told to get on their knees and suck were Eastern Europeans.)

You are sick.

There was a level of dehumanization at Agriprocessors not found elsewhere, a rape that was both physical and spiritual, a rape that took place in the open, in broad daylight, a rape that everyone could see but did not, a rape that continues today in the coverage of the Des Moines Register

Its amazing that only you and handful of bloggers share in this opinion that is compeletly baseless and brought on my some personal vendetta against and jealously of the Rubaskins.

[Shmarya]

What is "completely baseless" to you happens to be well documented fact.

As for what other plants do, they pay a lot more, give benefits and treat their employees far better than Agriprocessors did. And yes, all this is documented, as well.

Dozens of women had to blow, suck and/or f%*k supervisors to get off the night shift and out of the worst jobs.

You call me "sick" for reporting this. I call you sick for covering it up.

I'm pretty sure God is on my side in this dispute.

[formerpostvillian]

I worked at Agri when Hosam ran the chicken line. I know for a fact this activity went on. One day there were two new girls on the line in the most desired stations. I knew one of the girls and asked her how she was lucky enough to get that job. Her response was they had given Hosam oral sex.

These weren't secrets, everyone knew. Neither Heshy or Sholom cared much for Hosam but they never fired him out of respect for their father.

Aaron never believed the "rumors" and was proud of the fact he was employing a Arab in a key management position.

The Rabbi's hated him and tried several times to have him fired, but Aaron would never allow it.

Chabadnik Attorney - I liked to talk to you about buying one of these cool new t-shirts I'm having made.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Quote from Shmarya: One of the abuses not yet charged was the sexual abuse of young female undocumented workers by Agriprocessors supervisors. Women who wanted to change shifts or move to less dangerous jobs had a special price they had to pay to be allowed to do it: sexually satisfy one – or, sometimes, several – Agriprocessors supervisors.

Quote from former formerpostvillian:

"I knew one of the girls and asked her how she was lucky enough to get that job. Her response was they had given Hosam oral sex."

1. I apologize to Shmarya for the unnecessary derogatory remark. Truth is I'm a pretty sick guy, so I shouldn't point fingers.

2. Formerpostvillian, Thank you for clarifying who was receiving the sexual favors.

I agree its disgusting on anyones watch. This kind of behavior goes in many work environments (although the legal system has been curtailng this) and is intolerable. At the same time (and I dont know Sholom personally, but I know a few Rubashkins) the Rubashkins I have met are kind hearted people. Its diffficult to judge someone until and unless you have stood in his shoes. Its obvious that mistakes were made. The meat business, kosher or otherwise, is a rough often dirty enterprise. Rubashkin was in over his head and probably wrongly justified looking the other way on alot of crap.

I want to make a point (although I am even offended myself at this point and personally would strive to a more decent point of view) but the fact seems to be that these are not innocents here. These are illegal aliens who by hook or by crook and trying to work their way up. They are taking advantage of our country, our people and our frailities. There have been many a woman to sleep there way up the ladder. Its sad that they had to, but they are not innocent and these illegals certainly are not innocent victems.

[Shmarya]

You're a sick, disgusting piece of dreck. Blame women – some of them minors – who were often forced to have sex in order to get the shift they needed to care for their children, for example, you blame them?!!?

You disgusting creep.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

They innocent "minors" that "needed to care for their children". How old were they? They have children? Were they forced to work there? Were they slaves?

[Chabadnik Attorney]

You should read the comment more carefully as well. I said I didn't personally share the point of view that they are to blame, but they are certainly arn't innocents.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Also I agreed that I am disgusting. You however are a saint, I am sure.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Shmarya, you would have us think that a typical day for Sholom Rubashkin, was to wake up at 6:00 AM say Modeh Ani and then figure out how he could screw his bank (his lifeline and source of credit to keep afloat), torcher some cows (like he has nothing better to do), have his foreman rape an 8 year old girl (how rediculous), then take the cow he tortured suck its blood and spit it on the eight year girl (all so he could merit a 1,200 year prison sentence). Forget that he gave millions of dollars to Tzekoah _ He did it all for greed.

[Shmarya]

You're a sick, disgusting person – the antithesis of what a Jew should be.

Shame.

[formerpostvillian]

"I want to make a point (although I am even offended myself at this point and personally would strive to a more decent point of view) but the fact seems to be that these are not innocents here. These are illegal aliens.."

I think my point would be there was a lot of criminal activity on both sides. Both the illegal aliens and the Rubashkins.

The only beef I have with your few point is that because the Rubashkins ARE such wonderful people and Lubavitch, your only pointing out the illegal activity on the other side of the fence, and denying it on the side of the fence you favor.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Yep, you got it. The family whose rent I paid last month - ahead of my own - at a time when I am struggling financially -would agree.

But you who sees nothing but misery, scandall and corruption in his fellow man, are a saint?

If you are such a saint why don't you work with yidden to make our people better instead being a destructive force?

You think frum yidden are the worse people on earth. Worse than a whore debasing herself to make a dime.

You can make all the excuses for not being the chosid you would like to be. I am atleaste honest with myself. I know where I stand and I try to make myself better. I don't run away and direct hatred toward and use others as an excuse.

[Shmarya]

You're a disgusting piece of dreck.

You don't know what I have done or what I'm currently doing.

Filth.

[Shmarya]

a whore debasing herself to make a dime.

That's what this piece of filth thinks raped and sexually abused women are – whores.

You selfish evil piece of shit.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

"your only pointing out the illegal activity on the other side of the fence, and denying it on the side of the fence you favor"

Im not denying it. I just don't believe that they are the monsters that Shmarya would have us believe them to be. That they deserve to spend life in prison and experience other horrors that many in this blog have wished upon them. I think it is disgusting the way the workers were treated. I don't buy the slave labor crap about under age workers. My father worked in his fathers butcher shop from age 9. He would go in at 6 am and work until he had to go to school and then he would return to work after school. (I mean hard work. You think Rubaskins are tough, go meet my grandfather A"H) When people need to put food on their table they work. The workers should be treated well, I agee. There is no excuse for mistreating them.

I take the other side of the argument with others Lubabs all the time. I don't believe in one sided self rightous crap from either side.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

"That's what this piece of filth thinks raped and sexually abused women are – whores."

What would you call someone who blows their boss to get a shift? Now G-d forbid would I ever tolerate such behavior. I would beat the hell out of Hosam even if the girls were willing. And if in fact they were physically forced into sex acts then the perpretrator, in my opinion desrves the death penalty.

"the fault you find in others, your own blemish is fault you see"

You are so filled with hate, you can't even have a factual discussion. (I know, with a lowlife like me, its not worth your time discussing facts, how predictable)

Stop making excuses for yourself, its pathetic.

[Shmarya]

You're filth.

What would I call a 16 year old girl who is told she has to sleep with a sup in order to get off the night shift so she can care for her child or go to school?

An abused child.

You'd call her a "whore."

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Shmarya, its amazing how you would with one stroke of a brush paint a person as a "piece of filth".

Your so consumed by your agenda of hate, that you will attack anyone who attempts to undermine your ajenga. You preach compassion and you practice hatred.

Funny thing is that you probably think, I opine poorly of you personally. I am well aware of the f'd up mind shit that many foolish Lubabs probably put you through. It doesn't make all lubavitch bad. The vast overwhelmingn majority are good, caring selfless people. We don't live in a perfect world. There is alot worse going on outsisde the Hardedi world than winthin it.

[Shmarya]

Shmarya, its amazing how you would with one stroke of a brush paint a person as a "piece of filth".

Your so consumed by your agenda of hate, that you will attack anyone who attempts to undermine your ajenga. You preach compassion and you practice hatred.

No. You stupid piece of filth. Y-O-U called abused children "whores" and did it – and kashered the abuse these girls suffered – to cover for your friend Rubashkin.

That is why you're a pice of filth.

[formerpostvillian]

"I just don't believe that they are the monsters that Shmarya would have us believe them to be. That they deserve to spend life in prison..."

As I said, the Rubashkins ARE wonderful people and I agree sometimes they are unfairly demonized.

But Sholom is being accused of stealing a lot of money from a bank, using fraud instead of a gun.

When your a 50 year old bank robber, regardless of how the money was taken or spent, why would life in prison not be appropriate?

And it brakes my heart too because he was once a very good friend. But stealing is stealing and he of all people knew better!

[Chabadnik Attorney]

The definition of a child is subject to vary based upon time and circumstance. This girl is a mother. She is a survivor. She is working to support a family. She experienced more of life than most 30 year olds. My father owned his own business at 16. Your argument is a red herring and an attempt to sensationalize to prove your point. Many people today are mothers at 16.

Once again the behavior is disgusting. However, I am not convinced that these are innocent girls. That being said, I would still kick the shit out of the filth who was taking advantage of her.

If it as you say then I retract that comment. But if they are not as innocent as you maintain, then although the behavior if the foreman is disgusting, the behavior of the girl is not proper either.

You know what, forget it I agree. These girls under these facts were taken advanatge of and its disgusting. I say this because of your argument and the fact since they are illegals they really have little recourse.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

"But Sholom is being accused of stealing a lot of money from a bank, using fraud instead of a gun."

There is a major problem among many orthodox jews when it comed to monetary honesty. We make a million excuses, heterim and justifications. We are wrong to do so and we just don't seem to learn our lesson.

We have just experienced the biggest real estate crash in history. It was largely due to to bank fraud. However the banks themselves participated by turning a blind eye, not enforcing strict measures and failing to do due diligence. The banks made alot of money. The loose lending practices were encouraged by the federal govt.

In Rubaskins case the bank was benefitting from the arrangement. His intent was not to steal money. He inflated his numbers to increase his credit line. The bank either looked the other way or didn't have proper compliance measures. They leveraged persinal assets to make good with the bank (for selfish reasons or otherwise the intent was not fuck the bank)

[Chabadnik Attorney]

If Sholom is convicted and goes to jail for for violating the law, then so be it. We don't need to make that our crusade. Its his job to leatn from his msitakes and face the consequences. Its our job to judge our fellow favorably.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

"No. You stupid piece of filth. Y-O-U called abused children "whores" and did it – and kashered the abuse these girls suffered – to cover for your friend Rubashkin.

That is why you're a pice of filth."

Shmarya, Good point. However that was not my intent. Although I readily acknowledge I am a peice of filth for other reasons.

I also have alot of good in me.

Its a struggle, many deal with.

In all sincerity, I hope you find peace within your self as I hope for myself.

Good night and Be well.

[formerpostvillian]

I never questioned his intent, but this.."He inflated his numbers to increase his credit line"...is called fraud, is illegal, and applies to Lubavitchers as well as anyone else.

We all make mistakes and dispite his good intentions, he made a big one.

It's just a reality that Lubavitchers have a hard time dealing with, similiar to the Rebbe's death.

The Rebbe lives and Sholom is innocent!

[Chabadnik Attorney]

formerpostvillian: True about some Lubavitchers. It may also be a part of that personality that is attributable to some of their successes as well.

I only mention good intentions, because the intent is an element of the crime.
Any complicity by the bank will negate most of the elements of the crime.

A persons charitable work is a mitigating factor at sentencing.

Shalom and good night

[The sane one]

C. attorney: you say you know SMR and he is a nice guy. Pretty sure a lot of people thought Al Capone was a nice guy with all of his charity. You must be an attorney=no soul.

[Chabadnik Attorney]

Sane one?

Why do you feel the need to launch a personal attack against me "attorney=no soul" ?. Are you insecure in your argument?

I never claimed to know SMR. I specifically stated that I do not know him. Kindly read the comments more carefully.

( "At the same time (and I dont know Sholom personally, but I know a few Rubashkins) the Rubashkins I have met are kind hearted people.")

The comparison with "Al Capone" is poor and does not serve to bolster your position. Though, I am sure you realize that. The Rubashkins are a beloved family. Shalom and his family are suffering terribly for his mistakes. How much more would like to see his children suffer?

How many years would you like for Shalom to sit in prison? Do you believe that he should be facing 1,200 years in prison? Do you seriously consider him to be of the ilk of Al Capone - a muderer?

[Chabadnik Attorney]

"Capone arranged the most notorious gangland killing of the century, the 1929 Saint Valentine's Day Massacre"

[formerpostvillian]

"I only mention good intentions, because the intent is an element of the crime.
Any complicity by the bank will negate most of the elements of the crime."

When he made up fake invoices, his intent was fraud. And I am unaware of any complicity by the bank. The bank trusted the "Rabbi" and believed the invoices to accurate. My understanding is the bank was unaware of any fraud at the time of the transactions.

But it doesn't matter, the point is each time you counter you have another angle as to why Sholom is innocent.

Here is your latest..
"Any complicity by the bank will negate most of the elements of the crime."

I don't think the jury is going to agree, I guess we will soon find out.

[Anonymous Shlucha]

Shmarya I read your blog from time to time. I have to say that in the beginning I had you down as a piece of garbage.... but I've changed my mind.

This is what you wrote:
You call me "sick" for reporting this. I call you sick for covering it up.

I agree with you. You have every right to publicise these things, and I think you are very brave to do so, considering the attacks you are getting from Chabad.

I was very closely involved with Chabad for a long time. Many good people there. But unfortunately also a lot of corruption in the higher realms (I don't mean head office, I'm talking from a personal experience in my own city).

I was wronged, very badly. I still suffer from it. No-one in the community helped me, I was an abused and battered wife, but the rabbi chose to call me a liar.

So I for one appreciate your honesty on this site, and hope that it goes a long way to wiping out corrupt behaviour by ANYONE, be they rabbi or shaliach, whoever they are, they have a duty to behave in a certain way if they choose to represent the Lubavitcher Rebbe.

Yasher koach Shmarya.

I would also like to say Yasher koach to the Rubashkins, because whatever the case, they are good people in the main, and all this is a nightmare for everyone.

[Shmarya]

Thank you for your kind words.

[effie]

"Any complicity by the bank will negate most of the elements of the crime."

That's one of the most boneheaded arguments I've heard in a long time. It's akin to saying that the kid who didn't lock his bike deserved to have it stolen. The family that didn't lock their house, was complicit in their own burglary.

[WoolSilkCotton]

The defense has not denied anything. The defense position is:
1. SMR was too stupid and incompetent to know better.
2. SMR was too busy to obey the law.
3. SMR has problems with his temper and anger management issues.
4. SMR is only human, and humans makes mistakes.
5. SMR is a really nice person, once you get to know him.

Is anyone stupid enough to think this a good defense? Perhaps if you've overdosed on Rubashkin/Chabad Kool-Aid, you may believe so.

[sage]

I have purposely not blogged, regarding the trial.

But I will say just one thing:

In a week or so, the jury will hand down their verdict and we must all have respect for their decision.

[state of disgust]

"...we must all have respect for their decision."

Until the next trial, and the next and the next.