In Response To Shidduch Crisis, Rabbis Ban Dates Between Older Men And Younger Women

"That mindset is the reason there's a crisis. Women in the Orthodox Jewish world shouldn't have an 'expires by' stamp on them."

Dreidel robbers
By REUVEN BLAU • NY Post

There's an epidemic of kosher cradle snatchers -- and a group of rabbis is out to tame them.

The Talmudic titans, based here and in Israel, are calling for matchmakers to stop setting up Jewish men with much younger women, claiming the practice is leaving too many older women unmarried.

Matchmakers should set up men only with women whose ages are "within a year or two of the boy's, or even older," the 60 yeshiva rabbis declared in a letter.

The marriage missive, issued in late September, also suggested that shadchanim -- Jewish matchmakers -- concentrate on girls "age 20 and above."

Local singles bristled at what they saw as an implication that women who aren't even of the legal drinking age are already old maids.

"That mindset is the reason there's a crisis," said Allison Witty, 30, a communications director. "Women in the Orthodox Jewish world shouldn't have an 'expires by' stamp on them."

Sima Greenstein, a volunteer matchmaker in Cedarhurst, LI, had "mixed feelings" about the letter.

"When 30-year-old men say they want a 19-year-old girl, it's just unfair to the ones who are the right age for them," she said.

But, she added, "I'm not closing my doors to anybody. There are some 19-year-old girls who want to get taken by an older man."

About five years ago, the rabbis assembled an emergency meeting to address the growing number of single Orthodox women -- the so-called shidduch crisis.

Those rabbis concluded that older men marrying teen women was the primary cause.

They sponsored ads in Jewish publications promoting close-in-age matches. Some even suggested that matchmakers get paid double for making such connections.

Rabbi Shmuely Boteach, author of "The Kosher Sutra," a relationship guide, welcomed the latest edict.

"Men need to grow up," he said. "Rather than appreciating a woman who has matured like a fine wine, they often look for someone who is all cover and no book."

He said he knows many women in their 40s and 50s who have completely given up on love.

"This is getting worse because we live in a visual age. Men are only looking for wrinkle-free women," he said.

Michael Salomon, author of the book "The Shidduch Crisis," said the rabbis need to do more.

"I think this [edict] is a feeble attempt to address a situation that has never been addressed properly," said the Orthodox Jewish psychiatrist from Long Island.

He said the crisis is also reflected in spiking divorce rates and domestic violence among observant Jewish couples.

Singles are being bullied into marriage by pushy matchmakers, the therapist said.

Ilana Hostyk, 18, called it "good advice" to marry someone close in age, but noted, "When love comes around, I don't think you can place rules on it."

Comments

[Isa]

People wait until Mr or Ms Right comes along, which in some cases never happens, should have gotten hitched to Mr/Ms 'good enough'
There was things I saw in my shul of old that I could not figure out. I knew one guy who was exclaiming he found Ms Right and he said 'all the guys just date her once and never call her again' He married her of course- successful marriage from all indications after many years (25)
Oh yes!
Be wary of any women that never got along with her father.

[sheiner kleiner]

I have to give credit to the Rabbis for at least trying to do something to remedy the situation and try to feel the pain of the singles (myself included, unfortunately). But, as been proven many times in the past, bans do not work. Especially in place where emotions and love are concerned. A better way would be to adress these problems through lectures and in Yeshivas and seminaries but not through bans that are not enforcable

[Ben]

In fast growing populations, Haredim being one of such populations, incorrect marriage age gap produces either a lots of single man of single women.

For example if the rabbis reqired only same age people form families, then 5% of men would be without bride. If the gap is man 1 year older then men and women are have about the same numbers. If custom would require man be 10 years older then a woman then we'd have 50% of women go without husband. That is a fundamentals of the shidduh crisis. In the olden times this difference was narrowed by 2 factors - high death rate of women in childbirth and polygamy. Now both factors are not there, but tradition that man should be significantly older then a women stands.

This combination of a) high growth rate society with b) modern medicine and c) absense of polygamy and d)old tradition regarding man more aged then woman produces "shidduch crises".

[itchiemayer]

45 DJM seeking orthodox, Kohen eligible woman between 40 and 50, that is willing to move to a mid-sized Jewish community in the midwest.

She must be a bit goofy (endearingly so), eager to do chesed, and a good female role model for my children.

References are available.

I always hate it when people put in their frumster profiles that they are looking for someone nice looking. While I do believe physical attraction is important, the person has to be attractive to ME, whether or not someone else finds them attractive or nice looking is irrelevant.
I am sure some people find me nice looking, and others not so much.
I don't care what anyone else thinks, just that I am spiritually and phyically attracted to my wife, and my wife to me.
Anyhow, people should be free to date/marry without age being mandated by Rabbis. I am not looking for a 30 year old, but if a man wants to marry someone 15 years his junior, I guess that is their business.

[Baal Habos]

Interestingly enough, there are some real demographic truths behind this. Of course a ban is not the right the way to go though. The irony here though is that if it indeed does become a ban, they're probably priming themselves for another disaster in 18 years os so. The reason it's not a good idea, demographically spaeking, for older men to marry younger woman is because the current crop of 18 year old girls were born when the population was experiencing an increasing birth rate. So it's not a bad idea. However, I believe the current and near future crop of children being born are occuring in what is most likely a declining birth rate. If it continues, in all likelihood in 20 years, the situation will be reversed with an shortage of men and an overabundance of woman. By setting in place a ban, in twenty years it will be misconstrued as an issue of tznius and will never be changeabale.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Itchie, good luck! You deserve to find some happiness.

Will Shmarya start charging you $39.99/month, like jdate, for posting your ad? :)

[Charles]

beware of the islamic ways

[soso]

You could solve the crisis by opening the circle of eligible candidates to the non-frum. Less than 20% of Jews are frum...

[Dr. Dave]

"This is getting worse because we live in a visual age. Men are only looking for wrinkle-free women," he said.

Well... there's always Botox...

[WoolSilkCotton]

All the girls look pretty after 3am...

[harold]

I too see this happening. A friend of my daughter, a guy 30 years old just got engaged to a girl of 19. If you cook the numbers you will see that this will indeed result to a top heavy problem involving girls in the mid twenties and above having a more difficult time finding their match. If the perception is that it is hard for girls to find matches then this results in the guys having the pick of the litter, so to speak, and therefore going for the younger girls.

Outside the frum world it is the girls that have the easier time attracting partners. Hence the need for the Rabbis to get involved.

[shneerhere]

Yeah, sure, and women should only marry men who look like George Clooney or Brad Pitt. Good luck enforcing that one.

The real answer is to end Rabbi Gershom's edict and allow multiple wives. And yes, I'm serious.

[WoolSilkCotton]

++shneerhere | November 01, 2009 at 11:23 AM++

Oy vay, ONE wife is too much! How about banning ALL marriage? Imagine what alimony would be like if you had several wives and decided to 'clean house' one day!

The problem crosses all segments of the population. Ask any single woman in her 50's, regardless of religion, about what's out there in the dating world. Men want younger women, no matter what religion/ethnic group/culture you're talking about.

[Asa]

Multiple wives? Then you gotta allow for multiple husbands as well. This is the 21st century, after all.

[A. Nuran]

Multiple wives? Well....

Jews don't often posek the Muslims, but there's a first time for everything.

I know plenty of guys from Muslim countries where men can have more than one wife. It is not a lot of fun for them of for the wives. Even though the Quran, the Suna and the Hadith all say that a man must treat his wives equally it never happens. And even when the husband thinks it does the wives don't. There are factions. There are fights. There is jealousy, sniping, back-biting and trouble we probably don't have words for in English or Yiddish.

Unless the men are very rich they are chronically short of cash. They usually sneak from one wife's house to the next looking over their shoulders.

One wife's house to another? Why not keep them all in the same house? Because Jews are forbidden to commit suicide. And after a few months the husband would probably step in front of a beer truck just to be put out of his own misery.

When Mohammed's companions wanted to find him after hours they usually didn't go to his home. They went to the house where a Christian servant lived. He wasn't having sex. He was trying to have dinner and an evening with some peace and quiet away from his several wives.

Any man who is thinking about polygyny should consider his lesson carefully.

[ah-pee-chorus]

the solution is simple. remove all restrictions to all non-sexual boy/girl contact throughout grade school and high school. in fact, ENCOURAGE IT. this will permit the courting/flirting process to develop naturally. and because most people find love with someone close to their age , maturity and station in life, the likelihood is that most marriages will take place between people who are close in age, and might even like each other. the current bankrupt shidduch system treats the process like ordering food from a menu. and if most men prefer younger women, then why not tell the waiter to bring you some.

[Mr. Apikorus]

A 2 at 10 is a 10 at 2. My solution is to have all these guys check out the gals at 2 AM, not a minute earlier.

[Ahavah]

You do know if you put all your wives in the same tent/house, their monthly cycles will all coordinate - this is a medical fact - and you will end up with them all having PMS at once. Bad idea.

[Isa]

I saw a matchmaker in Minneapolis, not Orthodox per se but Jewish. However what struck me was most of the matchmaker clients were women.
Advantages of marrying an older man:
Job, money, maybe apartment/house. Why live in a hovel when older man can provide a house plus second car etc etc.

[itchiemayer]

In the Muslim world, women are kept down because they are unable to band together to stand up for themselves because they don't trust each other. Another woman could be a potential wife for their husband, so the women don't form bonds amongst themselves.
Besides, multiple wives is just a bad idea.
Plus, all the mikva fees I would have to pay, and Ahavah is correct about the "coordinated cycles".
WSC - thanks for the kind words. Go Yankees!

[Michelle]

B"H

The reason Jewish men don't want more than one Jewish wife is because they would have more than one Jewish mother-in-law!

[born in the UK]

Correct Isa, any woman whos had a bad relationship with her father will often carry that rubbish into her marriage - often its so entrenched it will go on to become a huge problem in any marriage she has.

[tanya]

And how about a man who has had a bad relationship with his father. What an emotional basket case he is!1 Believe me, I know from experience.
And how about some Jewish cougars?? Is a cougar kosher?? No, of course not. So instead of cougars, lets call them Herfords, those Herfords, they make it with younger men, so will the rabbis ban them, an older woman with a younger man? I wonder what these men think about those women. And how does that fit in with shidduchim?? Go Herford, go after that calf, you can get 'em. You go, girl!!

[Yerachmiel Lopin]

I see two solutions.

1. Just put a ban on women marrying before they were 20 until the oversupply of women dried up.

2. Stop collecting for yeshivas and start collecting to seriously, and I mean seriously upping the dowries of the oldest unmarried women.

I am preparing a Moetzes speech along those lines for frumfollies. Will probably appear in a few days.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Yerachmiel, how about 'Just put a ban on women'?

[momo ha-homo]

Everyone is looking for a few good men...

[Successful Messiah]

What I don't understand is with so many eligible jewish single women, how come Scotty still struck out?

[Reader]

The reason there is a shidduch "crisis" is that the girls want handsome, RICH, and learned, etc. (THE top boy in the yeshiva), and the men want thin, beautiful, and RICH, etc. (regardless of their own characteristics). Most people, however, are pretty average, so the odds are in favor of a lot of people staying single.

[Hometown Postville]

"Men need to grow up," he said. "Rather than appreciating a woman who has matured like a fine wine, they often look for someone who is all cover and no book."
I agree on the premise the Rabbi indicated in this statement, but instead of just putting an age limit on partnering people, I'm surprised he hasn't added fertility pre-requisites.

[the Heilige Rebbe of Otisvill]

I think those rabbis shouls praise dating MILF in order to cerate some balance.

[Theodore]

How about young 18 year old chaps( 16,17
years of age with parental consent) marry
single,affluent older women as a measure
for maintaing a balance ?
Just a thought.

[R]

Isa, Born in the UK what nonsense you seem to spout. It's like that idiotic notion of judging a girl by seeing what her brothers are like. What happens if she has no brothers and why do people assume siblings are all alike?

Back to the shidduch crisis. Why do Rabbis think that the way to solve any problem is to ban something or other?
I would say ban the shidduch system as that is what is really causing the problem.

They ban boys and girls from mixing in any way. They don't even allow them to share the same dr surgery incase they might meet in the waiting room. Same goes for visiting eating areas. I remember in sem we weren't allowed to go to one place because the yeshivah boys went there.
Another sem didn't allow the girls to walk on the same side of the street that the yeshivah dorm was on. It is all nonsense and all you end up doing is alienating girls and boys, so when it comes to them wanting to get married they often face an almost impossible task. So in comes the shadchan who has a list and sets up random boys with random girls and eventually gets a winner and with it alot of money.
It's all a scam and you wouldn't have this snobbery and prejudice if you didn't have this shidduch system.

[A E ANDERSON]

Any so-called man who needs a shadchan to find a woman is wuss, and deserves an aging hag!

[A E ANDERSON]

I suppose they brought King David an aging hag to warm him up (מלכים א). Yep, "נערה בתולה" must mean a haggy cougar, not hot babe. (It's usually the בתולה word that gets us Jews in trouble, not נערה . )

And, of course, King David wore a kopoteh, and Bat Sheba wore 80-denier hosiery.

[Debbie]

B"H

Ok, I just had to comment on this.

Once upon a time, a friend of mine tried to hook me up with a shadchan friend of hers. (I'm single and no longer in those wonderful greed salad years)

I told the shadchan that in my experience I found that I clicked better with men a few years younger than I am (3-10 years I said). She told me to "look within myself" (her way of saying I needed to be more "open minded" which of course means that I should date men way older than I am....)

Another friend of mine tried to fix me up with his former roommate, a man about a year older than I am. I was ok with it, but this gentleman (who thought I was about 4 or so years younger than I am) said I was too old for him. go fig.

BTW, my hats off to Shmueli Boteach.

Oh, and, BTW, I'm looking for a single guy, Modern Orthodox, late 40s to early 50s (yes, I'm in there age wise) -- looks we'll find out when we meet.....

Debbie

[Toby]

The problem is that the Yeshivas are screwing up everyone. All the girls I dated were unobservant and every girl I dated I got to become more observant.