Chabad's Lost Messiah

Did the Rebbe really believe he was the messiah?

Chabad's Lost Messiah
Tomer Persico • Azure

For several terrifying days in late November 2008, all Jewish eyes were on the Indian city of Mumbai. Muslim terrorists had launched a series of coordinated shooting and bombing attacks on targets throughout the metropolis, including the Nariman Chabad House, a hasidic cultural center that served the local Jewish community as well as Israeli tourists passing through. For two days, terrorists held those inside hostage; on the third, Indian security forces stormed the building. There they found the bodies of six captives, including the young Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg and his wife, Rivka, then six months pregnant. Only the Holtzbergs’ two-year-old son, Moshe, survived, having been spirited away by his Indian caretaker at the onset of the attack. Later, he was returned safely to his family in Israel.

Amidst their grief, the followers of Chabad found one additional source of comfort—or at least of awe—in the Mumbai tragedy, however: Though the Nariman House and its contents had been severely damaged, an oil painting of the late Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, the seventh Lubavitcher Rebbe and the last leader of Chabad, had survived unharmed. To many of his followers, this was nothing less than proof of the miraculous aura surrounding their deceased leader.1

Referred to by his acolytes simply as “the Rebbe,” Menachem Mendel Schneerson (1902-1994) continues to excite the passions of Lubavitchers even today, a decade and a half after his death—a testament to his personal stature as well as his profound impact on the Chabad movement. Under his charismatic leadership, Chabad was transformed within a few short decades from a small hasidic sect into a thriving global network of schools, community centers, synagogues, and charities.2 Even those who do not avail themselves of Chabad’s services have like as not encountered, at one time or another, one of the movement’s followers manning a street-corner stand, offering tefillin (phylacteries), prayer books, and tutelage for Jews curious about ritual observance. Nor are Chabad’s activities limited strictly to members of the Jewish faith: In accordance with the Rebbe’s instructions, Lubavitchers have also assumed responsibility for convincing non-Jews to follow the Noahide Laws, a set of seven moral imperatives the Talmud claims are binding on all mankind. Owing to this fervent activism, Chabad is now the most widespread and vibrant Jewish organization in the world; in some countries, such as France, Australia, and almost all of the former Soviet republics, Chabad has effectively become Judaism’s public face.

To be sure, such impressive achievements required a powerful motivating force. For Chabad, this force was a messianic awakening the likes of which Judaism had not experienced since the brief rise and fall of the seventeenth-century false messiah, Shabtai Tzvi, and at its center stood Menachem Mendel Schneerson himself. As the Rebbe’s fame increased in the decades since the 1950s, and his movement grew in power and influence, so, too, did the messianic expectations surrounding him become more and more zealous, ultimately overwhelming both Chabad’s rank and file and its rabbinical leadership alike. This cult of personality profoundly altered the movement, both institutionally and theologically. Indeed, since the Rebbe’s death in 1994, no one has been deemed worthy of succeeding him. Moreover, the movement has found itself split between those who have accepted its leader’s death and those—the majority of Chabad’s followers—who believe he is somehow still alive.

No less worrisome than this internal schism, the Lubavitchers have found themselves increasingly at odds with other ultra-Orthodox Jewish communities. Although Chabad members follow the commandments to the letter, often adding their own, more onerous restrictions, their critics have gone so far as to cast doubt on the movement’s Jewishness. The head of the Lithuanian Jewish community, the late Rabbi Eliezer Shach, once called Chabad a “cult” and sarcastically defined it as the religion closest to Judaism;3 Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, spiritual leader of the Sephardi Shas movement, ruled that a certain statement by the Lubavitcher Rebbe was “true heresy” and “idolatry.”4 And in a recent book titled The Rebbe, the Messiah, and the Scandal of Orthodox Indifference, historian and Orthodox rabbi David Berger demonstrates that one faction of Chabad no longer presents the Rebbe as “only” the messiah, but instead goes so far as to identify him with God himself—cause, argues Berger, for the movement’s excommunication from Judaism.5 For their part, Chabad members respond to such criticisms with either anger or derision: They describe Berger as a crackpot, scorn the opinions of Ovadia Yosef, and insist that Eliezer Shach was the Devil’s representative on earth.6

In light of the uproar surrounding the “aberration” of the Chabad movement, one cannot but wonder: Did the Rebbe in truth believe he was the messiah?7 The messianic faction of the movement naturally insists that he did. The moderates, however, have largely succeeded in convincing the general public that the Rebbe never presented himself as such. At most, they assert, he neither confirmed nor denied such claims. Rather, the messianic fervor that engulfed the movement was “from below”—i.e., at the instigation of his followers.8

Yet such apologetics simply do not mesh with the facts. As I will show, the Rebbe did believe—and encouraged his followers to believe—that he was the messiah, destined to reveal himself to the people Israel and redeem the world. In fact, he could hardly have thought otherwise: This perception was an inevitable result of the messianic theology the Rebbe inherited from his predecessors, a theology whose internal logic was reflected in his teachings and which guided both his decisions and actions. The current messianic tension that grips Chabad is therefore not a side effect of its achievements under the Rebbe’s leadership. Just the opposite is true: Messianism was the driving force behind Chabad’s success, and it has only grown stronger after the death of the supposed savior himself.…

Comments

[Yossel]

Thanks for the teaser. Now... what about his evidence? :-)

[Yerachmiel Lopin (FrumFollies.wordpress.com)]

Great item. Shmarya, once again, thanks for finding a gem out there and bringing it to our attention.

[Rob Wisler]

So the oil painting survived. Big f'ing deal! The "messianic miracle" would have been if the human beings survived.

How typical of Chabad beliefs, to put material stuff (like the pig Joseph Schneerson's fanatical pursuit of his goddamned book collection during WWII) in front of care and concern for human life.

[pierre]

I'm afraid it is just a teaser; you used to be able to read articles free by joining the site. At least it was free back when I joined to read the article on RAMMSTEIN!...

[Ben]

I've had this experience first hand. First tefillos and communal tehillim, then being told by a few Chabad friends about the miraculous survival of rebbe's painting.

When I've noted to one of them that many chairs also survived unharmed, but he does not consider this a miracle and that I'd consider saving a pregnant mother and other people there much move valuable then saving a painting, he got offended. That happened last year.

[Althelion]

Chabad is a movement of few leaders and many followers. Messianism works to keep the followers following. Belief in a messiah, especially in someone who used to live in Brooklyn, helps the leaders to rationalize and legitimize all their beliefs to their followers. It is a very self serving approach. It helps people who want to follow, but are sometimes unsure, to feel good about following.

Chabad plays an interesting game of "Don't ask, don't tell" with the outside non-chabad world. Chabad people believe that Menachem Schneersohn is either a) God; b) the messiah; or c) a prophet.

Nobody in chabad thinks that Menachem Schneersohn was a flesh-and-blood human being. That is a cult of personality.

[Yoni]

Too long; fucking summarize it for those of us billing by the hour. Was a subscriber to Azure for years but let it lapse since it became too boring. Plus its design is really annoying.

[Nach]

Someone recently tried to trip "the rebbe" as he was 'proceeding down the aisle' in 770. The Meshichistim gave him a beating... The man screams "idiots! Why are you wasting your time with me now? Shouldn't you first help the rebbe get up"....

[joe]

I believe that the Rebbe "was a flesh-and-blood human being." How about that?

I also believe he passed away like all the tzaddikim before him. I also believe that all the tzaddikim are "called living [even] upon their demise". I also believe that all "the wicked are called dead even whilst still living" (read: the owner of this blog, "sage" and others here, you know who you are).

I also believe that the had Moshiach arrived prior to 3 Tammuz 5754, it would most likely be the Rebbe. However, no one knows the identity of Moshiach for certain until he arrives. May it still be the Rebbe now? I do not know, but certainly not unless there is techias hamiesisim first, which has not happened so far...

The Rebbe was very emphatic on this, "there is no obligation to identify Moshiach." So did the he "believe" he was THE Moshiach? He certainly gave it his all to bring about the coming of Moshiach and he certainly *hinted* that during in this generation it would be him. Alas, it stopped there. It didn't happen.

The crap Scot sells (that Lubavitchers secretly believe the Rebbe to still be Moshiach but are loath to say it openly) is a Big Lie. Those who believe it, make it no secret, flags and all.

[Rob Wisler]

Joe,
You believe in a lie. MM Schneerson was no better than Jim Jones or L. Ron Hubbard or any of the other "can commit no sins" "can make no errors" cult leaders.

[Choni Davidowitz]

The Rebbe (rightly) considered himself the sole captain of the Ship SS Exile, and would be the last to leave.
Problem is since his passing there have arisen thousands of captains.

[joe]

Rob Wisler, the need to denigrate the beliefs of others is not a result of a healthy psyche. Get well soon.

[yudel]

Does anyone remember he had a stroke and was only seen by his inner circle? Does anyone really think he sent out letters during that time? Did anyone from the outside spend real time with him?

Palace coup was at work.

[ah-pee-chorus]

+++The crap Scot sells (that Lubavitchers secretly believe the Rebbe to still be Moshiach but are loath to say it openly) is a Big Lie. Those who believe it, make it no secret, flags and all. +++

Posted by: joe | November 19, 2009 at 10:06 AM

the meshichist wackos fly their flag and say it openly ONLY when and where they choose. whenever i come in contact with a shliach, i ask their stance on this issue. i have never met even one who would clearly state that the rebbe is not moshiach. each very cleverly leaves the door open. now this is probably because the meshichists control and appoint the shluchim. since they know that this belief may not lead to as many donations from their prospective new sheep, they keep it on the QT. this is just one more example of dishonesty to go along with the intellectual dishonesty required to have accepted belief in the moshiach myth.

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

Who cares? He did or he didn't. The jeep went over the cliff and Chabad is now the most boring leave-us-alone-already Orthodox group out there. Anybody still capable of getting worked up over this guy is as retarded as he turned out to be. So he couldn't get a life. Get your own.

[joe]

ah-pee-chorus wrote: "now this is probably because the meshichists control and appoint the shluchim."
_ _ _

LOL! Lots of insider knowledge you have! Why theorize on easily verifiable and well-known facts?

I do not know why anyone would want to "say clearly" that someone is NOT Moshiach. How does one know such a thing for certain? How is saying this any less arrogant and primitive than claiming that one knows who Moshiach is for certain? Also, can you not see that there is a lot of room between believing someone to definitely be Moshiach and believing they are definitely NOT? Can you process this? Please try.

Besides, what does this all matter to someone like you, who believes the very concept of Moshiach to be a "myth"? Strange.

[ZoroIslamoYid]

If any of you are interested in the only decent study so far that starts to "get" what Rebbe Schneersohn's messianism was all about, I highly recommend you read Prof. Eliot Wolfson's brand new book: "Open Secret: Postmessianic Messianism and the Mystical Revision of Menahem Mendel Schneerson" by Columbia University Press.

http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-14630-2/open-secret/reviews

(Amazon is selling it for 20% off: $28)

I can say a lot about it, but I'll leave it up to all of you to read it for yourselves & draw your own conclusions.

Again, for anyone interested in this stuff, this is a must read. Prof. Wolfson is arguably the most learned academic/visionary of (Jewish) mysticism in America, so this is no light matter. Moreover, he thoroughly went through all of of Schneersohn's ouvre, including the unedited talks & discourses & journals & letters -- something that practically all other so-called experts on Lubavitch, even those IN Lubavitch, didn't do.

Makes an excellent Hanukah gift.

-- ZoroIslamoYid

[Chicago Sam]

Whenever I visited 770 I can tell you that the Rebbe always got off on being regarded as the "Moshe Rabbanu" and "Moshiach" of our time.

Whenever the Hasidim cried of, "Yehi Adonanu, Morenu, Rabbanu, V'Mishechanu . . ." the Rebbe smiled and said "Lachaim," to his legion of mindless followers.

If the Rebbe didn't believe he was "Moshiach," he would taken somebody and said, "Listen up, oh loyal hasidim,this man is going to be the next rebbe . . ." This would have laid the matter completely to rest, but the rebbe's own madness and megalomania got the better of him.

Like the Eagles' song, Take It Easy,"

Take it easy
Don't let the sound of your own wheels Drive you crazy ...

Well, this happened to the Rebbe and his Hasidim--they all went insane.

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

Wolfson claims they went nuts in a saner or nuttier way than you think (take your pick)--all these Santa Claus is Real claims were based on a belief Santa Claus is So Real Because He Isn't a He But a BIg Nothing:

"This highly original reading of Menachem Mendel Schneerson's messianic doctrine renders irrelevant much of the ongoing speculation and debate on the question of whether or not the Lubavitcher Rebbe, like the bulk of his following, believed that he was the Messiah. The book argues insightfully that beneath his well-attested endeavors to demonstrate the imminence the messianic advent, and his resort to the traditional language of Jewish messianic speculation, lays the paradoxical 'open secret' of a totally impersonal Messiah who, reflecting the nature of the infinite kabbalistic godhead itself, can be revealed in the world only by way of concealment. His advent is conceptualized as a universal expansion of spiritual consciousness, a nonevent that continuously occurs, has occurred, and will occur 'immediately, without delay, in actuality,' which effectively means beyond measurable time. " — Ada Rapoport-Albert, University College London

[ah-pee-chorus]

++Why theorize on easily verifiable and well-known facts? ++
Posted by: joe

please illucidate me as to these facts. i am always willing to change any opinion or belief based on new info. are you?
there is a HUGE distinction between believing that it WAS theoretically possible for him to have been moshiach had he fulfilled all of the requirements, and believing that he IS moshiach and is capable of answering prayers, answering questions posed at the ohel through book finger pointing, and will be returning shortly. got it?
as for why it matters to me, it is one thing to state a belief in something that has a set of rules attached to it, such as what moshiach will do before he dies. while i consider that belief to be a silly myth, at least adhering to the rules of the myth would be nice. but it is a whole nother level of intellectual dishonesty to have those rules and requirements remain unmet and yet insist that he is still or even can be moshiach. that is a cult. and you appear to be drinking the kool-aid.
now if you can tell me who is control of the shluchim appointments, i would appreciate it. my anecdotal evidence led to a conclusion which you are implying is incorrect. please elaborate.

[joe]

1. "Who is control of the shluchim appointments?"
New independent appointments are rear and are in purview or Merkaz, i.e. Rabbi Moshe Kotlarsky – NOT a mesianist, to put it mildly. Most new sheluchim are appointed by regional directors, who are also overwhelmingly not messianst as well.
(even Scott probably knows this much).

2. "Answering prayers" is a misnomer. It is, however, entirely appropriate according to orthodox rite (see SHU"T Minchas Elozor) to ask the deceased Tzaddikim (at their grave sites!) to intercede on ones behalf.

3. "Book finger-pointing" is a detestable cult-like novelty.

4. "Rules unmet". Correct. And you know today for certain they will not be met in the future? It is a strange question to ask someone who believes the whole thing to be a myth. Well, I do not think it to be a myth. I also find it impossible to predict whether or not these "rules" will be met in the future. Nor do I think it is an important subject to speculate upon. I absolutely detest people that call themselves Lubavitchers that engage in such speculation (not to mention those that took it upon themselves to state this as a certainty). Most of these people are (well-meaning?) BTs that were misguided by a few demagogues.

[Chicago Sam]

Prayer: Dialing direct is always cheaper ...

[Dr. Dave]

But ask shluchim if the rebbe is Moshiach and you always get an evasion.

One of the saner shluchim I know told me that: "a chasid should always think his rebbe could be the Moshiach", and would not elaborate further when i asked whether Rabbi Schneerson is still the Moshiach.

[joe]

Dr. Dave, no real Lubavitcher wants to preclude the possibility (remote as it may be) that techias hameisim of tzaddikim might happen before the coming of Moshiach and that then their beloved Rebbe would still be 'an eligible candidate'. But this has nothing to do with any definitive certainty or "belief"! Nor does it have anything to do with "evasion" or "PR concerns". Let me put it this way: I am telling you exactly how I feel. Do you have a problem with my stance? If yes, what might it be?

[Rob Wisler]

Joe,
From your statements, you obviously are very poorly educated both in Jewish and secular areas. You seem to have a sick desire to lash out at those who dare contradict your insane ramblings. I would definitely seek some counseling before you do damage to yourself or those around you.

[jay]

vos is neis took off the article i wonder why

[Althelion]

But ask shluchim if the rebbe is Moshiach and you always get an evasion.

Ask your friendly shluchim about abortion; evolution; homosexuality; womens rights; The State of Israel; the souls of non-Jews; rubashkin................

Not a straight answer/opinion on any of 'em.

[Dave Marshall]

It's all cultural, I've come to the conclusion. I make excuses for Rav Ovadiah Yosef, since I am Sephardic I am comfortable with him, so I still like a lot of what he says, even though some stuff he says I openly disagree with.
So also some Ashkenazi Haredim/ wanna-be haredim, wanna-be hassidim "overlook" stuff the Lubavitcher Rebbe said which they don't agree with, because overall he made them feel comfortable.

[Office of the Chief Rabbi]

Even today's non-Messianist Chabadnikim are saying here "He coulda been a contender."

Such utter shit.

[Dave Marshall]

OCR, I agree with you. It's all avodah zarah. In fact I think that many of us are uneasy with the concept of the mashiach, because it so easily can be mis-used/ misunderstood, and veer into avodah zarah.
I am also against a lot of midrashim, because they have the potential to veer from speculation about stories in the Tanach to avodah zarah.

[Cha... Bad]

the anti-Meshichists are a bunch of revisionists bent on a presenting a semblance of normalcy to their wealthy contributors. The truth is Lubavitcher's are not normal Jews; they were (and to some extent still are) by any objective measure a bonafide cult no different than Jews for Jesus.

I was there when the Rebbe would affirm the raucous crowds hailing him the Messiah long before he initially fell ill. Even after he was wheel chair-bound, hanging out on that balcony they built for him to laud over his chanting minions, he would vigorously shake his hand in approval of the Yechi song. And now they want to deny it ever happened? To save face from appearing completely crazy? Please.

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

His actual writings on messiah were that messiah (probably Himself) was so exalted as to be beyond the normally human--he considered Himself to be a supremely refined vessel and not superman. Mangled Maimonides and abstract gobbledegook but what it was--he wasn't into a Bar Kochba type Messiah from the beginning or the idea that things took hard effort to do, like conquer the Land. You say he was one hundred percent that he was that vessel but even before the stroke this was a guy in decline stuck in a part. And afterwards the whole world knows he effed up.

[Chicago Sam]

Chabad says that "We are for ALL Jews," that is until you ask them what they mean by "Jew," which excludes Ethiopian, anyone have only one Jewish parent, e.g., the father.

By the same token, no honors are given to people that visit their congregations who happen to be--in their eyes--"questionable Jews."

The "Who is a Jew?" issue is a serious issue Chabad that has divided world-Jewry--kudos to the Rebbe for dividing our people like few Jewish leaders have done in centuries.

Many years ago, R. Yussi Krupnik, the Litvish brother-in-law to David Eliezeree, (today's vociferous Chabad point-man) used to observe, "When Chabad say in the Kedusha, Hu Elo-hanu (He is our God . . .") they all point to the Rebbe.

He was more right than anyone could have imagined at that time.

[Chicago Sam]

Chabad says that "We are for ALL Jews," that is until you ask them what they mean by "Jew," which excludes Ethiopian, anyone have only one Jewish parent, e.g., the father.

By the same token, no honors are given to people that visit their congregations who happen to be--in their eyes--"questionable Jews."

The "Who is a Jew?" issue is a serious issue Chabad that has divided world-Jewry--kudos to the Rebbe for dividing our people like few Jewish leaders have done in centuries.

Many years ago, R. Yussi Krupnik, the Litvish brother-in-law to David Eliezeree, (today's vociferous Chabad point-man) used to observe, "When Chabad say in the Kedusha, Hu Elo-hanu (He is our God . . .") they all point to the Rebbe.

He was more right than anyone could have imagined at that time.

[ZoroIslamoYid]

I find it ironic that "Azure," a right-of-center journal, which included the likes of Ambassador Michael Oran, Yossi Klein Halevi & Bibi sympathizers, should be writing an expose on Bibi's Rebbe & Lubavitcher chasidim who glamorize Bibi.

--ZIY

[Yochanan Lavie]

Meschist Radio (apologies Wall of Voodoo)

I feel a ruach on my shoulder
And the touch of a world that is younger
I turn the switch and check the number
I leave it on when in bed I shluffie
I hear the rhythms of the fabrengen
I buy the product and never break it
I hear the talking of the Rebbe
Can't understand just what's so heavy?

I'm on a Meschist radio
I'm on a Meschist whoa-oh radio

I dial it in and tune the station
They talk about the geulah situation
I understand just a little
Vos iz dos?, it's a riddle

I'm on a Meschist radio
I'm on a Meschist whoa-oh radio

I wish I was in 770
Drinking Mountain Dew with levity
He takes requests on the telephone
He's on a wavelength far from home
I feel a ruach on my shoulder
They ship 'em [illegals]in from south of the border
I hear the chanting of the fabrengen
Can't understand just what they're singin'?

I'm on a Meschist radio
I'm on a Meschist whoa-oh radio
I'm on a Meschist radio
I'm on a Meschist whoa-oh radio

Radio radio...
Nu? What does he say

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

I can't seem to face up to the facts
I'm tense and nervous and i can't relax
I can't sleep cause my dorm's on fire
Don't touch me shomriim, I'm a real live wire.
Psycho Rebbe, what's that you say?
ay ay ay ay ay ay ay ay ay
Better run run run run away....
Oy oy oyyyyyyy aiyah yah yah yahhhh

You started a conversation, and you can't even finish it.
You're talking a lot but you're not saying anything.
Though I have nothing to say our lips are unsealed.
Say no-thing once and say it again [and again and again].
Psycho Rebbe, here to stay?
Gone gone gone gone gone gone gone away....

[apologies to David Byrne and the Talking Heads]

[Yochanan Lavie]

Excellent, YY.

[Ben]

Chicago Sam, you are right. Chabad is extremely devisive while claiming love among the Jews. It is hard to say whether they do more good or harm anymore.

All members of Jewish families who happened to be "wrong sided" are said to be goyim by Chabad and they are not any closer to us according to chabad then some indian tribe in amazon forest. Not an iota closer according to Chabad theoreticians.

[ah-pee-chorus]

+++"Rules unmet". Correct. And you know today for certain they will not be met in the future? It is a strange question to ask someone who believes the whole thing to be a myth. Well, I do not think it to be a myth. I also find it impossible to predict whether or not these "rules" will be met in the future. +++

Posted by: joe

so, joe, would you have a problem if a large group of jews said the same about albert einstein? or theodore herzl? i find the latter highly more likely to be moshiach. your attempt at non-judgement is pitifully lacking.

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

YL: thank you. I hooked up with a spiritual advisor from the 60's and received permission to break w/the "party line" and start calling a spade a spade

[Chicago Sam]

BTW,

Wolfson's thoughts about the Rebbe are nothing more than pure gibberish.

* No Messiah would have incited his Hasidim to attack a frail sister-in-law over a matter of books.

* No real Messiah would have ignored Ethiopian Jews who needed public support.

* No real Messiah would have refused not to join forces with other prominent Jewish leaders in confronting FDR to save lives.

* No real Messiah would have established a cult centered on himself.

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

CS--well even taking the gibberish at face value--what makes a personality cult is the flesh and blood personality not the abstractions on steroids--you can talk all this dialectic bs all you want--whether it's the rebbe talking about Himself or an outside intellectual--but it's a smiling face waving to the followers that is plastered on posters and websites from here to Kiryat Chabad and back again

[Chicago Sam]

Avatars have no place in Judaism--the Rebbe has indeed started a new religion just like Rav Shach observed. Chabad is an avoda zara.

[yossi]

The entire essay is available in Hebrew here:

http://tchelet.org.il/article.php?id=448&page=all

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

CS--technically I don't know that I could agree that avatar=avoda zara. But I wouldn't want to argue the point--enough oxygen has been sucked out of the atmosphere by Chabad's self-aggrandizing pre-occuptions. Whatever, he fell out of the stupid tree and hit all the branches on his way down.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

some are trying to launder the rebbe.
i wonder, what do they, believe themselves!
with so much hedged previously on him being messiah, by him and by his followers, the past cannot be laundered. it can only be flushed! even then it could still float for centuries to come.
they tried laundering shabtai tzvi too und ended underground.

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avatar

def 2b OK, not a"z, 2a---???? prolly not but a lot of mystic types grey-lined in that territory etc. etc.

[george smith]

Ultimately this is a boring and pointless argument - as more time passes those Chabadnicks who believe the Rebbee is/was the Messiah will die off and he will be seen for what he was - the great tzaddik of his generation. Might he have been the Messiah? Perhaps so, but G-d didn't ultimately chose him for that role.

Btw, evidently there are posters who don't have the first bit of Jewish knowledge; the traditional belief that Jewish inheritance derives only from a Jewish mother isn't just a Lubavitcher belief, it's the universal belief of all frum Jews.

[Ben]

George Smith, you wrote that Jewishness defined by the mother is "universal believe of all frum Jews".

In this case our father Yaakov was not frum, Yosef ha tzaddik ruler of Egypt was not frum, Yehuda the forefather of most of modern Jews was not frum and you can go on and on and on.

What you are saying in essense is that "frum" Jews really don't follow Torah and invented their own remotedly Torah based religion (just like Christianity and Islam).

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

George--it was already boring and pointless when the not-so-great tzaddik went ahead and started wasting everyone's time with it.

[Ben]

George, and of couse Moshe Rabbeinu who married midianite women (no frum beit din to make a conversion was present there and she did not study for a year under Rav Elyashiv's cronies either)was not frum.

Question to you George - are "frum" really Jewish?

[Chicago Sam]

Going back to Wolfson's dubious premise, that "the Messiah can only be revealed through concealment," I think this argument could be said of Jesus, or even Sabbatai Tzvi; there could even be a Talmudic antecedent for this concept as well.

Frankly, Rabbanu Yosef Albo was correct in postulating that Judaism would be fine without a belief in a personal messiah. Several midrashic texts support this premise as well.

Schersohn is nothing more than a slightly more pious Sabbatai Tzvi, and deserves to be mentioned as a "charlatan messiah."

[Chicago Sam]

Chicago Sam

Going back to Wolfson's dubious premise, that "the Messiah can only be revealed through concealment," I think this argument could be said of Jesus, or even Sabbatai Tzvi; there could even be a Talmudic antecedent for this concept as well--but this does not necessarily make the belief worthy of accepting.

As with the case of Jesus, Sabbatai Tzvi, and now MMS, the postmortem mythology of the dead "Messiah," paradoxically takes on a life all of its own.

Frankly, I personally think that Rabbanu Yosef Albo (ca. 15-16th century) was correct in postulating that Judaism would be fine without a belief in a personal messiah. Several midrashic texts support this premise as well.

Schersohn is nothing more than a slightly more pious Sabbatai Tzvi, and deserves to be mentioned as a "charlatan messi

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

"One of the saner shluchim I know told me that: "a chasid should always think his rebbe could be the Moshiach." Satmar certainly didn't think that way. While Reb Yolish was alive, his chasidim, when asked what would happen when he died, would invariably reply, "The Rebbe will live to greet Moshiach." The way it is phrased indicates that they didn't think he was Moshiach, but believed that someone else would be. How do you greet yourself?

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

Chicago Sam: I've read portions of the book and the argument is way "out there" and yes, gibberishy if sophisticated poetic gibberish--whether or not the Rebbe said or hinted it, and ia house of cards

Basically the Messiah is the impersonal open secret/hidden/revealed agency of Messiah exactly because He refuses, according to what I read, to be a personal Messiah. The secret of his revelation as Moshiach is that He will step back and refuse to be a personal Messiah and force his followers to be themselves be the "eighth" Rebbe--and through his inspiration they do tshuvah and good works and pray and find that they are collectively "Messiah": this is the two-fold secret of the Rebbe being Messiah yet not being Messiah but yes being Messiah because he inspires them to be collectively Messiah and in the blink of an eye transcending normal time and space bring in the Messianic age.

Well, for one thing--this is just magical too trippy thinking when the original doctrines of Messiah were at least straightforward--the guy conquers the Land etc.
And at the end of the day what the followers deduce (if not the Rebbe in his heart of hearts) is that the Rebbe is Moshiach--let's plaster the world with His face.

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

...and then he dies and nothing has changed....

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

Everyone is trying to get to the farbrunges.
The name of the farbrunges is called Heaven.
The band in Heaven plays my favorite niggun.
They play it once again, they play it all night long.
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens....

[Chicago Sam]

I agree with Yosemite; I think the mystification of the Messiah is the legacy left by the Sabbati Tzvi scandal; I suppose that could probably be said of the Pauline mystification of Jesus as well; Chabad's messianic doctrine is a house of cards, as is MMS's subtle claim of being the Messiah--God help us from Messianic pretenders, who have historically caused nothing but trouble for the Jewish people.

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

Chicago: ty. For Chabad it's like the movie Groundhog Day. Reliving the past over and over.

[Ben]

This Rebbe's idea of collective messiah seems be taken from Isaak Asimov's bood "Foundation", which rebbe apparently liked. Rebbe is creating his "Foundation".

[Yosemite Yarmulke]

:-)

roll over ron hubbard

[Chicago Sam]

Yosemite Yarmulke,

Good insights on a complicated and disturbing subject. Yashar Koach to everyone for their contributions--thus making a very stimulating read.

[Dr. Dave]

While Reb Yolish was alive, his chasidim, when asked what would happen when he died, would invariably reply, "The Rebbe will live to greet Moshiach." The way it is phrased indicates that they didn't think he was Moshiach, but believed that someone else would be. How do you greet yourself?

Well if you ask the Lubavitchers they'll say he meant he would say hi to R. Schneerson!!

[sheiner kleiner]

I heard from a reliable source that towards the end of his life, Rabbi Schneerson was basically a puppet who was manipulated by some of his top chassidim. This source also told me that even if the Rebbe wanted to protest all this moshiach nonesense, he would not have been allowed. Far too many people were making too much money to stop milking the moshiach cow. So, basically, we will probably never find out for sure what the Rebbe really thought of all this.

[Mr. Apikorus]

The Moshiach arrived on 8 Tammuz 5702.

[Chicago Sam]

The rebbe should have taken into consideration, the theological monstrosity he was making . . . He should have stood up to the Hasidim and laid the law down ... he didn't ...

[peter]

Finally read this article; terrifying. It makes clear so many things, among them how fervently those who became Chabad could actually believe Chassidut and more specifically Chabad are the quintessence of Yahadut, because there's "always" a quintessence, of lifeway and person who exemplifies it. I can almost grasp, given the story even non-Chabad jews had of him, WHY I could find even myself believing he WAS the most likely candidate for Messiah *of the generation*, a generation that didn't merit it's fruition. He WAS "responsible for so much" - more than his chassidim could understand - but 'read' as moshiach, any human motivations could be read no other way. An eminently human and mortal messiah we really did earn. It makes such sense of the utter turmoil Chabad was in after his death. The last bit of description, of the Chabadnik who described life without the Rebbe as comparable to being told there's no God to the universe I think also helps makes sense of certain of the criminal behavior and indiscretions; in the Modern and Yeshivish circles, when someone doubts the lifeways and beliefs, certain of them will continue as "orthoprax" because the believe core aspects and appreciate certain of the lifestyle, and can justify it within a 'non-sectarian' human worldview. When ones lifeway is so bound to a Jewish figure, the Rebbe, ideas about the outside world, etc, the literal way they view the world (no following the shita of Slifkin or Schroeder in their world), all which is both dictated to you as ONE unified system (no "elu v'elu" here), all of which is explicated WITHIN the 'greater' Orthodox Jewish setting WITHIN Judaism - it's not simply that much more to lose in leaving, it's that much thicker system to keep you in and to hide your transgressions inside. There is no reason to make the stretch of justifying a lifestyle on a non-sectarian human lifeway when you have so many Jewish degrees of separation before it even NEEDS to be a thought. It's not unlike the invariable response when you say ONE WORD of caution about chabad; "BUT they do so much good work..." transgressions and indiscretions - let alone an 'enviable' messianic fervor - are just a few bad trees in a thick, Jewish-looking Jewish forest.

[Deborah Shaya]

1. Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneersohn tz”l, known as, ‘The Rebbe,’ was NOT the Mashiach.

Those who erroneously believe him to be the Mashiach that Am Yisrael is waiting for today, are bordering on Christianity, and committing the grave sin of Avodah Zarah, Idolatry.

Idolatry is forbidden in the Torah, and is the Second of the Asseret Hadibrot.
Similarly in the case of Breslov with Rav Nachman tz”l.

2. There should be NO MEDIATOR between a person’s tefillot and Hashem.

If a person chooses to use intercession instead of praying directly to Hashem, this is completely Assur.

If the leaders of Lubavitch/Chabad encouraged people to use the “Igrot” /(“Igros”) - including Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, tz”l - they were wrong. Using the Igrot is using intercession. Similarly the practices of

(1) "reading out the Igrot request to a PICTURE of Rabbi Schneersohn tz"l" is direct Avodah Zarah. We are only allowed to pray to Hashem.

(2) sending faxes to the Bet HaChaim should be stopped immediately.

(3) Praying directly to the Tzaddik at the Bet HaChaim is wrong. It causes tremendous tsaar to the Neshamah of the Tzaddik in Shamayim.

We pray only to Hashem – directly ourselves. NO mediator is permitted.

These practices are abhorrent and against the Torah. They are assur and forbidden, and should all be stopped.

If the tzaddik advised that people do this in his lifetime – he was wrong. And this must be corrected. Speedily.

TESHUVAH to Hashem should be done speedily instead - by the whole of the Lubavitch organisation especially. The whole of the Lubavitch organisation is currently all refusing to do Teshuvah.

Similarly in the case of Breslov, with those who go Uman to pray directly to the Tzaddik – instead of directly to Hakadosh Baruch Hu. “Intercession” and “mediation” is against the Torah.

The Torah cannot be mixed with Avodah Zarah. This is twisting the Torah, and the Torah must remain straight.

[Elliot R. Wolfson]

hi

[Elliot R. Wolfson]

I am glad that one reader finds my words gibberish and too trippy for his taste. What is remarkable is that the same reader invokes Albo to make the very point I am making, that there is no messiah for whom to wait and that Judaism is in no need of the conception of a personal redeemer. My language is relevant to the teaching of Habad, which is indeed very philosophically profound and poetically sublime. I never say that most followers of the Rebbe understood his message or even the greater teachings of Habad and I hardly expected everyone to accept my work, which is a labor of many years of study and reflection. I fully agree that in some respects it is irrelevant what the Rebbe thought in his heart and his actions need to be judged by the movement, which is of course not of one voice. There are many reasons for people to want to belong to something. As for evaluating my thesis based on the "original" teachings concerning the messiah--first, what are the original teachings? This is a faulty conception. Second, whatever the original teaching is does not matter to my analysis. If the reader wants to asess Habad by what he considers the original teaching, that is his business. It was and is not my concern. Finally, I will quote Dylan, "how much longer, babe, must we search for what is not lost?" Is the world in need of tikkun? Yes. Does that mean it will ever come to pass? No. My thesis regarding the messianic excitement surrounding the Rebbe is impossible because it is the only thing possible. More gibberish? Just ask Chicao Sam and his sidekick Yosemte Yarmulke. Someday I would like to read what they have written.

[Elliot R. Wolfson]

I will say a final few words about these people who have used the word "gibberish" to refer to my work. This is a nasty locution, meant to suggest that what I have written is nonsense or unintelligible jargon (assuming that these people know what the term means). Of course, this is a very hurtful thing to say and it reflects the likelihood that these people have never spent hours working on a project and producing a book. They have no sense of the mesirat nefesh involved in writing. But in this day and age, when people can pontificate their opinions behind relative anonymity (Chicago Sam and Yosemite Yarmulke), it is not surprising to me that they feel free to write this way about my work. Do they begin to understand the courage it takes to publish books, not to mention the painstaking work to read through so much material? No, they do not and beyond the issue of disagreeing with my interpretation of the teachings of Habad and the messianism of the Rebbe, these are not people of courage or deep understanding.

Had my book been read carefully, it would have been obvious that I am not taking an apologetic view defending the messianic fervor of Lubavitchers nor am I trying to defend the Rebbe himself. I am simply trying to take seriously the Habad teaching about the world, the ideal of bittul, the messianic vision and its implications for the new Torah, the status of the feminine, and the relationship between Jew and non-Jew. I frankly do not care if people on this blog, or any other, agree with me. I have examined thousands of texts and i came to the conclusion that there was an open secret, more concealed precisely because it was right there in the open. It is legitimate and expected that some will reject my interpretation, and I have no issue with that difference in opinion. However, I do take offense at the gutless manner of referring to my work as gibberish. If people are predisposed to dislike Habad teaching, that is their problem. Every word in my book was carefully chosen and the logic of paradox is pristine. I stand in the tradition of many mystical poets, but I have no illusion that my thinking will be everyone's cup of tea. It has never been that way, and the book I have written shows that the mystical-messianic insights of the kabbalah can never be realized in time. What the comments on this blog indicate is that I have clearly cast diamonds before the swine. And one who has read my book will understand what this means. As far as Chicago Sam and Yosemite Yarmulke, I remind them of the wisdom of the rabbis, shetikah seyag le-hokhmah.

[Chicago Sam]

Dear Elliot,

Let me apologize for calling your work, “gibberish.” I have long admired and read many of your works; you happen to be an outstanding scholar of Jewish mysticism, someone who is not afraid to think “outside the box.”

However, I think your attempt to extricate the Rebbe is mistaken on many grounds. As someone who spent many years in Lubavitch, there is no doubt in my mind (at least) that the Rebbe believed, or more precisely, hoped that he would indeed be the Messiah.

Curiously, I think Jesus himself made the same kind of error in thinking he was the “real Moshiach,” so to speak.

Just because you labor upon a work doesn’t necessarily mean that its fundamental premises are correct. It does take a lot of courage to write a book—something I too can personally relate to. To assume that your critics are bereft of “courage or deep understanding,” does not befit you as a scholar to respond this way. You could be wrong… Your comment, “Casting pearls before swine,” reflects a temperament that does not take criticism well.

For the record, I do not believe in a personal messiah, such a belief is really a metaphor for Utopia (cf. Rabbi Hillel's famous remark in TB Sanhedrin 99a), but one thing I do know is that Rabbi Schneersohn really did believe he was the “messiah,” and the theology of Chabad—as articulated by all of its rebbes, throughout all their writings (and I have personally read nearly all of them over the decades—including those that are in a raw manuscript form)—strongly indicates that the present Rebbe is the “Moshe Rabbanu of our generation,” (as were the previous Lubavitcher Rebbes) a role that Rabbi Schneersohn personally relished.

For the record, Rabbi Schneersohn hoped the whole world would unite behind his banner, but outside the cloistered world (or to use a more platonic metaphor, “cave”) of the Lubavitcher troglodytes exists a different kind of reality.
I think it is somewhat presumptuous to think you know the mind of the Rebbe than all of his erstwhile Hasidim—all of whom believed in a literal messiah. If you have any doubt, I suggest you speak directly with Rabbi Yoel Kahn, Eliahu Touger (a former chavruta), or any other Habad scholar, who will be only too glad to clarify this matter for you. That is why I thought your argument smacked of “gibberish,” and once again, I extend apologies for offending you and your work.

Freud often writes about the magical kind of thinking that religious-minded people have; in their psyche, thought is considered omnipotent; verbally evoking, “We want Moshiach NOW!!” in the mind of the Rebbe and his hordes, creates that reality. We, who live in a rational universe, know better. The world of the child does not alter reality; in this respect, the Rebbe was a delusional person and erroneous in his fundamentalist thinking.

Lastly, the Rebbe’s personal refusal to assist the Ethiopian Jews, his inciting his followers to physically assault his sister-in-law over a library, and especially his stance on “Who is a Jew?” are ample reasons to invalidate the Rebbe’s messianic credentials. He was a flawed man, but still a good man, whose devotion to the Jewish community was exemplary in many ways.

I love the Eagles and their music; this discussion reminds me of one their best songs:

Take It easy, take it easy
Don't let the sound of your own wheels
drive you crazy
Lighten up while you still can
don't even try to understand
Just find a place to make your stand
and take it easy
By the way, the Eagles’ wisdom applies no less to Rebbes and university scholars as well.

Happy New Year,

Chicago Sam

[Elliot R. Wolfson]

i still do not know who is the person behind Chicago Sam, and it is uncomfortable to use this public space to respond to a personal note, but i do want to say i accept your apology for using a pejorative term to characterize my work and i also respect your disagreement with my interpretation.

civil disagreement is fine and i can take criticism well when my work is not ridiculed with words like "gibberish." when the work is engaged more seriously (as in your last note), i have no problem.

i could respond more to your response but there would be no end to this give and take, and thus i will just say that i do not presume to know what was in the heart of Menachem Mendel Schneerson. i have tried my hardest to interpret his teachings, not to extricate him from any wrong doing or erroneous beliefs, as you suggest. i concur that he was a human being with failings like all of us. my book is not an apologia for him or the movement. if my understanding of what constitutes the messianic paradox does not make sense, so be it. i can, as you suggest, take it easy in the place where i have made my stand.

be well

[Chicago Sam]

Elliot,

I reread the postings, I never called your work, "gibberish," but I did say your premise is "dubious." BTW, Yosemite Yarmulke is not my sidekick; don't really need one... Silly Elliot, sidekicks are for kids (sorry, couldn't resist the dumb pun).

On a less frivolous note, "dubious" is not meant as a disrespectful term per se; I carefully chose this verb for a reason because many of us at FM have some serious questions as to the certainty of your arguments; this hardly makes me worthy of being "silent" as your rabbinic aphorism suggests.

Silencing critics or questions is a good example of monological thinking; it is not a good example of dialogical discussion. As educators, we need to get off the podium and engage the "person in the street."

For the sake of clarity, let me define the term:

dubious
adjective

1. Not affording certainty:

ambiguous, borderline, chancy, clouded, doubtful, dubitable, equivocal, inconclusive, indecisive, indeterminate, problematic, problematical, questionable, uncertain, unclear, unsure.
Informal: iffy.
Idioms: at issue, in doubt, in question.
See certain, clear.

2. Experiencing doubt:

doubtful, skeptical, uncertain, undecided, unsure.
Idiom: in doubt.
See certain.

Still, since all Israel are "responsible for one another," I will still apologize for someone else's comment.

Doubtfully and dubiously yours,

Chicago Sam

[Chicago Sam]

Elliot,

I think an exchange of give and take would spice things up a little bit at FM. You are always welcome to change my mind; like Emerson, I believe that, "I am a skeptic in that I consider all things possible..."

Best,

CS