Illegal Yeshiva Angers Town Residents

"All of a sudden," the private home was a haredi school. "65 little boys in a single family home."

Illegal Yeshiva Angers Ramapo Residents
Tony Aiello • CBS News 2

RAMAPO, N.Y. ― In the blink of an eye, it went from a quiet single-family home to a busy private school, and on Thursday a Rockland County town filed court papers seeking to shut down a Yeshiva that it claims opened illegally.

Two weeks ago the house at 97 Highview Rd. in Suffern was a single-family home, until one morning.

"All of a sudden it was a school," said Bob Stevens, who neighbors the home. "It's definitely illegal, a very serious situation."

Added neighbor Annette Doerr: "They haven't filed for the permits for a school, there's no sprinkler system. There's 65 little boys in a single family home."

Doerr said the pictures tell the story. Every weekday, buses pull up, dozens of boys get out and go into the house, which is now a Yeshiva – a school for Hasidic boys. It's also a source of frustration for nearby residents.

"They just moved in and started the school. They're disregarding the law, they're not supposed to be here as a school," said Doerr.

Building and fire inspectors visited the Yeshiva on Thursday. Ramapo town officials said the school opened illegally. The building doesn't have the required sprinkler system or emergency exits.

CBS 2 tried to ask Rabbi Samuel Gross why he opened the school without permits, but nobody inside the home would come to the door.

"They say they want to be good neighbors, but they're not gonna be. They can't be," said Stevens.

Highview Road is a busy thoroughfare with no shoulder for the school buses to stop on, so they pull into the narrow driveway, and sometimes get stuck.

"It's definitely disrupted our lives. It's noisy, it's not the right place for it," said Doerr.

The town of Ramapo has issued building violations and is taking steps to get an injunction to shut the school down. Neighbors want the school to learn a lesson about following the fire code and obeying the law.

Zoning law does allow a private school in a home, but only after a lengthy approval process and site review. 

[Hat Tip for the video: Joel Katz.]

Comments

[Ahavah]

So the city should come in one day with the swat team and social services to remove every last one of the children into state custody until the parents can prove they will no longer place the children in unsafe environments. That's the only way this type of thing is going to stop. The law of the land is the law. It is no violation of Torah for the city insist upon proper zoning, building and safety codes in places where children are warehoused all day.

[Big Bill]

@Ahavah: :"swat team and social services?"

Son, they only do that for kooky Christians sects, like the Waco folks. Be thankful they don't do it to you. They like to come in with tanks, tear gas, machine guns and (for those that survive) school buses to whisk them away for weeks.

But not to worry. No matter how kooky they are, they have way more pull with the NY and Federal government than kooky Christians do.

[effie]

They need to change the laws. If it violates zoning it should be shut down immediately. When there is no permit and fire and safety violations - especially when it involves children, they should shut it down even faster and file criminal charges. Otherwise, they will drag it out for months in court and through appeals and make false promises and miss due dates. How many times have we seen this before?

[sheiner kleiner]

But, of course, its all because those Ramapo folks are such antisemites. Its never us. Oh, no, we are perfect...

[Mr. Apikorus]

No, they don't need to change the laws. They need to enforce those laws which are already on the books.

If the Christian (and secular Jewish) residents of Suffern are contemptuous of their ultra-Orthodox neighbors, the ultra-Orthodox holier-than-thou frumbags have only themselves to blame.

[WoolSilkCotton]

They vote en bloc and give lots of $$$ to politicians at local and state levels. Therefore, they can do as they please.

[effie]

The law grants them rights of appeal which they use to delay.

Anyway, I guess change will happen when a fire happens and a lot of kids die.

[effie]

Also, how many bathrooms in that place??? I'm sure there are all sorts of plumbing code violations, too.

[R]

Why would anyone send their child to such a place? It's the parents that have the sick minds to send their children to illegal schools or day care centres.
The amount of times things have happened to kids in such places makes you wonder why people still send...maybe because they don't believe it'll happen to them.
Well i hope the government closes down this school and bans this person from opening any other centre for children or young adults. They should think about the safety of the children first and foremost and not about how much money frummers pay the government.

[Robert Wisler]

Just shows the outright contempt that hareidi Jewry has for their gentile and non-Orthodox neighbors.

[effie]

When I was a kid we were terrified by the infamous Our Lady of the Angels School fire where over 90 kids died. Never ever think it can't happen to you.

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

Why would anyone send their child to such a place? Because they may not know the zoning and code issues of the new facility. I don't know all the programs the school participates in. But, the school is getting money from New York State:
http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/nclb/allocations/0910/nonpubsetasidesniatorock
Search for Talmud Torah Ohr Yochanan.

See the description of free universal prekindergarten:
http://www.childcarerockland.org/family/prek.php
The application form for free universal prekindergarten still shows the address of the old location in Spring Valley:
http://www.childcarerockland.org/family/documents/English.UPK.Application5-15-09.pdf

Why the move? Google maps show the new house is larger than the old house. There are schools of all faiths getting allocations by the NYS Education Department. Some of the schools on the list of part of a private school system with professional management on board. But in the case of this yeshiva, either the administrators are totally clueless, or they are lookin' for a bruisin'.

[effie]

Why would anyone send their child to such a place? Because they may not know the zoning and code issues of the new facility.

Well, they know now.

[WoolSilkCotton]

All the parents are firm believers in the antisemitic conspiracy theories and paranoia that are an integral part of the black hat mindset.

Even the 'legitimate' haredi schools and yeshivas are generally dirty and crowded. There is no accountability. Parents are used to this from their own 'educational' backgrounds. If you complain, you must be against the Torah and your child will be expelled and you will be ostracized.

Safety laws and fire extinguishers are for goyim. The Aibishter watches over the kinderlach. No need for expensive sprinkler systems or toilets that flush.

[sheiner kleiner]

"When I was a kid we were terrified by the infamous Our Lady of the Angels School fire where over 90 kids died. Never ever think it can't happen to you."

Effie, when and where did this terrible incident take place. Can you supply some info on that. Thanks

[reuven sabel]

all of the people(mr apikoris, wool silk cotton, effie, r, robert wisler, and first generation bavarian american) who broke shabos to comment on this arcticle on shabos are all holy brothers who unfortunately learned in goishe schools instead of yeshivas. because they learned in goishe schools instead of yeshivas they learned how to break shabos, they learned how to eat hazir, and they were taught how to dance with shiksas. the majority of jews who go to public schools instead of yeshivas not only learn how to break shabos, eat hazir, and dance with shiksas, but also end up marrying shiksas.
what is worse? to send ones children to public shool where they will learn how to break shabos, eat hazir, dance with shisas and probably marrying a shiksa, or to send ones chilren to an illegal yeshiva where they will learn to be good jews?

[reuven sabel]

i live in monsey and i never heard of this yeshiva before, even though i sometimes daven in the synagouge that sponsers this yeshiva, because it is a small new yeshiva. now that this small new yeshiva has gotten the publicity of being accused of operating illegally without any permits, people now know about this yeshiva and the yeshiva will with G-d's help be able to raise the money needed to either fix up this house to make it legal for a yeshiva or even better to raise enough money to move into bigger and better quarters. if anybody is interested in contributing money to this yeshiva they can call me and i will refer them to the people who run this yeshiva. my number is 845-659-9162.

[Silver Spring Observer]

The comments from Mr. Sabel show he doesn't get it. The issue is not which is worst. The issue is that this school is violating both American law and Jewish law and endangering the lives of the boys who learn there. That they should now be trying to raise money from the publicity of this illegal activity, activity which is also a terrible chillul hashem, is just offensive. There are plenty of legal yeshivot in Monsey, even on Highview Road.

[reuven sabel]

dear silver spring observer,
maybe you would like to have a mitzva and contribute money so that rachmestrivka can have a legal yeshiva in monsey.

[A. Nuran]

Reuven, if a person breaks Shabbos to say "1+1=2" or "The Earth goes around the Sun" 1+2 still equals two, and the Earth still goes around the Sun.

These Charedi scofflaws are endangering their children, harming their neighbors, sowing corruption and lies and endangering their own children. It wouldn't matter if I wrapped the note in bacon and forced it down your throat on Yom Kippur. It would still be true.

[reuven sabel]

holy brothers in silver spring and wherever else you may be,
nobody contributes money for a new synagogue or yeshiva until they hear about the new synagogue or yeshiva. until then, the new synagogue has to operate on a shoestring budget which is very hard to do legally. to start a new yeshiva you first have start the yeshiva and have the yeshiva operating before anybody will contribute money to make the yeshiva legal.

[reuven sabel]

most other yeshivas also started out illegally and only after they started were able to raise the money to become legal.

[effie]

sheiner kleiner: I had not seen this website before. They did an excellent job. At the bottom are links to photos and drawings. There is also a link to a film reenactment made by the LAFD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_the_Angels_School_fire

[seymour]

you are missing a very important point

There are many yeshivas in the area. It is not like there is a shortage. It just so happens someone else wants to start another yeshiva business that all.
No holy mission at all just to make a buck

Better public school then getting burned in a yeshiva

PS I went to a an ultra black hat yeshiva, and know their games very well.

In yeshiva we just learned how to steal and scam the government and think taking money from no Jews is not that.

So were are even bad

[shmuel]

Shut it down...NOW. That'll teach them a lesson.
When will they stop with their contempt for society and its laws?
NEVER.

[reuven sabel]

sure there are other yeshivas in the area, but thr rachmestrivka yeshiva is holier than most of them. please help them to have money to do everything legally by giving them a donation.

[Rapher]

Why don't the residents simply exercise civil disobedience, block the entrance, and prevent the children from entering. That's the only thing these parasites understand.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Reuven, I saw your website.

You need to find a pair of pants that don't make you look like a dwarf. Also, a hat with a narrower brim and lower crown would compliment your physique better.
Visit Bencraft Hatters in Boro Park, and try this one:
http://www.bencrafthats.com/product.php?pid=218&subcname=Borsalino

[effie]

For Reuven, I recommend The Centurion -- double layered, of course. ;-)

[WoolSilkCotton]

Effie, LOL!!

[Asa]

I second that: LOL! Literally! Wow, I needed a laugh today, and that was it.

[reuven sabel]

I WANT EVERYBODY TO READ MY MIND AND IF ANYBODY TRIES TO CONTROL MY MIND WITH MIND CONTROL DRUGS THEY WILL BE KILLED BY MY FRIENDS

[WoolSilkCotton]

Shmarya, please review the 3:05pm entry above. It may be time to pull the plug on our friend Reuven. It's not funny anymore.

[Alec]

Thank goodness for WoolSilkCotton's post. I was wondering if I'd returned to the wrong blog.

>> Effie, when and where did this terrible incident take place. Can you supply some info on that. Thanks

There's also the Cavan Orphanage Fire in 1943 Ireland, when 35 children and one adult died.

I have similar gut-wrenched folk memories of the Glen Cinema Disaster on Hogmanay 1929 in Paisley, where 69 children died during a matinee screenings. One survivor was interviewed recently, and recalls sitting the whole time on the front row somehow blanking out the sight of bodies jammed in the doorway (like a survivor from the WTC attacks imagined the bodies of the jumpers as cattle lying on the road).

[reuven sabel]

i am not a paranoid psychotic scizophrenic who is going to put an aluminum foil helmet on his head to protect himself from people reading his mind (see effie's 10:28am comment and the centurion website that he refered me to. but nobody and i repeat NOBODY is going to control my mind and if anybody tries controlling my mind or the mind of any other member of my organization, survivors of israeli medical malpractice anonymous, with mind control drugs or any other form of psychiatric mind control such as electroshock therapy or tazers, we will do everything we need to do to fight back. remember: we are survivors and we will not allow any of our members or friends to be victims again.
NEVER AGAIN

[reuven sabel]

IF ANYBODY QUESTIONS MY SANITY THEY SHOULD CALL ME. my number is 845-659-9162

[effie]

reuven: I am sorry if I offended you. It was an old internet joke. The site is by a bunch of MIT engineering students who thought it would funny. No one here wants to control your thoughts in any way, shape, or form or harm you. However, it would be nice if you would try to stay on topic and not make any threats.

[Mr. Apikorus]

As long as he calls me a Nazi (and he has come close) he gets a pass.

[reuven sabel]

i would like to meet all you holy brothers who think you are apikorsim

[sheiner kleiner]

Effie and Alec, thanks. I checked it out. Scary stuff that all Yeshiva adminstrators and Roshei Yeshivas become aware of.

[shmuel]

"Sure there are other yeshivas in the area, but thr rachmestrivka yeshiva is holier than most of them. please help them to have money to do everything legally by giving them a donation.
Posted by: reuven sabel | October 25, 2009 at 12:48 AM"

Uhh, no. Noone here is going to donate a red cent to an illegal operation which annoys its neighbors, breaks all civil laws and desecrates God's holy name. Not a single penny. On the contrary, we want it to be shut down. Do you understand the anger here at your so-called "yeshiva"? Do you understand why we, and the locals, are angry?

[reuven sabel]

shmuel, are you really one of the locals?

[reuven sabel]

holy brother shmuel,
G-d has chosen you to be the benefactor to contribute a few million dollars for the building of a first class legal yeshiva building for the rachmestivka yeshiva

[reuven sabel]

but shmuel, if you would contribute the neccesary money for the yeshiva to be legal, the yeshiva would be legal instead of illegal.

[seymour]

you need not donate to every Joe that wants to run a yeshiva

[reuven sabel]

but this is the holy rachmestrivka yeshiva. please donate money to them because without money they cant do anything legally and with enough money they can do everything legally. only money can make a yeshiva legal.

[shmuel]

"shmuel, are you really one of the locals?
Posted by: reuven sabel | October 26, 2009 at 05:30 AM"
Reuven, read carefully:
"Do you understand why we, and the locals, are angry? Posted by: shmuel | October 26, 2009 at 12:10 AM"

I'm not one of the locals, obviously. That's why I wrote we AND the locals are angry.

"but shmuel, if you would contribute the neccesary money for the yeshiva to be legal, the yeshiva would be legal instead of illegal.

Posted by: reuven sabel | October 26, 2009 at 05:36 AM"
Reuven, you don't get it: that's not the way things work in the normal world. In the normal world, one gets permits, complies with all zoning laws, shows respect for society and neighbors, and does everything possible not to tick off the locals, the Gentiles and the law. THEN you open your yeshiva.

But those who operate in bizarro world do everything like George Constanza on Seinfeld: the opposite. First, you open a yeshiva, breaking all the laws--who cares? The laws of the goyim don't matter! Then you beg for money, since that will enable you to make it "legal."
Sorry, Charley, you don't live in your bizarro world all by yourselves. Your actions have consequences, and one of them is: you'll get shut down by the law. Another? I won't give you a penny.
Where did you guys learn to operate like this? You bring disgrace upon us all. Your contempt for the law of the law is stunning. But don't worry: they'll teach you guys lessons you'll never forget.

[R]

If they didn't start their operation legally, what makes you think they will become legal after receiving funds?

[reuven sabel]

we want to be legal. we just need money to make our yeshivas meet legal codes.