Haredim Stone Girl With Cinder Block Because Of "Immodest" Dress

Secular girl attacked, stoned by haredi mob while waiting for a bus in Beit Shemesh. Haredim screamed: "‘Animal, you are not a person at all."

First, the Hidush.org report:

Girl stoned for immodest dress

A flyer distributed in the Israeli town of Bet Shemesh reported that a local mob assaulted a girl and stoned her with a cinder block for dressing immodestly. “The hands of Torah sages keeping silent will be stained with the blood of the first ‘modesty murder’ victim.” Cautions Hiddush director Rabbi Uri Regev and welcomes budding counter-action from within the Haredi camp

A young secular woman who was waiting for a bus on Hazon Ish Street in Bet Shemesh was screamed and spat at, and stoned with a cinder block, by people who felt she was dressed immodestly, according to a flyer distributed around the increasingly ultra-Orthodox town. The director of the non-profit organization Hiddush – For Religious Freedom and Equality, Rabbi Uri Regev, who is also lawyer, announced that he would be contacting the police about opening an investigation into the case and putting the perpetrators on trial. He also called on the most prominent Haredi rabbis to issue a categorical halachic ruling condemning all violence in the name of religion and advising such thugs of their punishment from heaven.

The flyer reads as follows: “Last Friday people calling themselves ultra-Orthodox had the gall to suddenly burst into bestial roars at a girl, a daughter of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob from among our misguided brethren [sic], who was innocently standing at a bus stop on Hazon Ish Street, spat at her and insulted her by calling out to her in horrendous screams, ‘Animal, you are not a person at all’ and so on and so forth, in plain view of a large audience and giggling children, and their evil tempers did not cool, until one among them with a white beard picked up with his rude hands a stone that has the power to kill and threw it with willful wrongdoing and hit her, while she collapsed beneath it moaning and weeping bitterly.”

The flyer proclaims: “Heaven above! Are we to suffer such people in our midst? Is it the will of the Torah?? Will we allow people in our midst to fall so low as to come soon to actual murder, and all ostensibly in the name of the Torah? Anyone who does not refrain from stoning a person from among our misguided brethren with a large rock, what is to prevent them tomorrow from murdering anyone who does not keep to their crooked path! Let us rise up against them and excoriate them and boycott them, lest it be too late!”

The editor of the weekly magazine Mishpacha, Rabbi Moshe Grylak, courageously publicized the affair in his personal column, “Point of View.” Grylak writes: “If it is Da’at Torah to hurl cinder blocks at human beings, then we want to see a clear halachic ruling on the matter from one of the great rulers, and then we too shall act likewise. In the meantime we will warn against it.”

The director of the non-profit organization Hiddush – For Religious Freedom and Equality, Rabbi Uri Regev, said he “welcomes the signs of budding action against the growing violence in the name of religion, and calls upon the police to act vigorously to stem the ongoing transformation of Bet Shemesh into the Tehran of Israel. The person who threw the cinder block must be found and put in jail for years to come. There is no room for tolerance in regard to violence in the name of religion, which is worse than ordinary violence, since it is backed by an ideology that deprives others of their humanity.” Regev also called on the most prominent rabbis in the ultra-Orthodox community to issue a categorical halachic ruling banning all violence in the name of religion. “It is only a matter of time before the first ‘modesty murder’ occurs, and the victim’s blood will be on the Torah sages’ foreheads.”

Yeshiva World also picked this up:

Immodest Attire Prompts Attack Against A Woman
Yechiel Spira • YWN Israel

Last week, pashkavilim were seen in Beit Shemesh addressing an incident in which a woman appearing in immodest attire was attacked. The notices were a condemnatory message against the attackers, who assaulted the woman in the name of tznius. It stated the attack was perpetrated by youths and children, including throwing a stone at her.

Rabbi Uri Regev, who runs the Chidush organization, commented on the unfortunate event on Yaron Dekel’s program on Israel Radio’s Reshet Bet. He has words of praise for Mishpacha Magazine, for using the forum to comment on the event in an editorial, condemning the behavior of those involved.

Regev stated all “mehadrin Jews” must distance themselves from such unacceptable actions.

[Hat Tip: Joel Katz.]

Comments

[Mr. Apikoros]

How come there is no report of this in the mainstream Israeli press? How come no arrests? Are the cops in Jersalem afraid of these monsters?

[JK]

At least the leadership in this city had the common sense to condemn the rabble. This is unfortunately not always the case. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail. Still, what kind of people who proclaim to be more religious than others throw rocks at women and call them animals?

[sage]

People who would do such horrendous things, such as this, deserve the same mercy as HaShem gave to Korach and his associates.

[seymour friedman]

Grylak writes: “If it is Da’at Torah to hurl cinder blocks at human beings, then we want to see a clear halachic ruling on the matter from one of the great rulers, and then we too shall act likewise. In the meantime we will warn against it.”

so if a rabbie says it is ok they he agrees to do it

[Shmarya]

I think he was being sarcastic.

[Michael Makovi]

Rabbi Joseph Telushkin, based on Dennis Prager, wants to interpret the prohibition of bearing G-d's name in vain, not to mean uttering His name for no good reason, but rather as a prohibition of using His name to justify evil. His prime example is Muslims who yell "Allah Akbar!" before murder.

In Rev. Abraham Cohen's Everyman's Talmud, Pesikta d'Rab Kahana is cited as explaining the prohibition of carrying G-d's name in vain as prohibiting one from doing anything immoral while wearing tefillin ( = bearing G-d's name). The point seems to be that one is prohibited from peforming a hillul hashem when he is wearing or saying something that associates him with religion and G-d.

And so all this explains precisely why the Haredim are so detestable, disgusting, revolting, and abhorrent, to'evat hashem.

[seymour friedman]

while it is disgusting what they did, the bigger problem is the silence by many of the cherideim mainstream and powers/rebbies. Until they speak up these will continue until someone it killed

[PulpitRabbi]

The good news keeps piling up in this High Holiday season. In another post, you report of Sara Netanyahu's father, here, we read about internal Chareidi opposition against holier-than-thou-thugs. What's next, perhaps even some national reconciliation, a resolve for speaking of our internal differences in a civil manner? Thanks for the report!

One correction, of the YWN account:
It stated the attack was perpetrated by youths and children, including throwing a stone at her.

... in the Hiddush.org quotation of the pashkevil, in contrast, the stone thrower is described as:
one among them with a white beard picked up with his rude hands a stone that has the power to kill and threw it with willful wrongdoing and hit her, while she collapsed beneath it moaning and weeping bitterly.

Neither medium can claim to be certified reliable, but I fear that the stone might very well have been thrown by an adult. Additional news reports on this matter would be most appreciated. (and I will call some of my Beit Shemesh friends for more info)

[harold]

How come no arrests
Probably because they did not find the perpetrators.

He also called on the most prominent Haredi rabbis to issue a categorical halachic ruling condemning all violence in the name of religion and advising such thugs of their punishment from heaven.
There are plenty of halachic laws on the books against violence. What is needed is to find the thugs and make sure that justice is served quickly and to its fullest.

[ah-pee-chorus]

++There are plenty of halachic laws on the books against violence++

and plenty that call for violence.

[harold]

and plenty that call for violence

Then why such a low incidence of violence commited by yeshiva bocherim?

[ah-pee-chorus]

because they are a minority governed by rational laws that have nothing to do with halacha.

[ah-pee-chorus]

all of the recent anglo olim in the area must be thrilled.

[effie]

The answer: CCWs for girls. Or, at least tazers. I would love to see a bunch of these nutters flopping around on the ground.

[reggie]

"Misguided brethren"
I don't know which is worse: throwing the cinder block at this poor woman or that condensending attitude towards the chilonim. By refering to them as such, This Rabbi is just stregnthening the barriers bet. frum and non-frum. What a shame

[harold]

because they are a minority governed by rational laws that have nothing to do with halacha

What ever the mix of laws may be. The bottom line is that the incidence of violence commited by the orthodox is very low compared to other ethnic groups and the general population at large.

[Shmarya]

I'm not at all sure that's correct. Even if it is, haredim have a much higher rate of tax evasion, tax fraud, welfare fraud, and other crimes than the larger population.

[ah-pee-chorus]

++The bottom line is that the incidence of violence ...+++
that is completely irrelevant to my initial point which was that there are many halachot which call for violence. i didn't claim that orthos have a high or higher rate of violence. a low rate might be due to an increased fear of jail, israeli police, or a low body weight or lactose intolerance. none of this has any bearing on fact that torah calls for violence many times.

[reggie]

"The bottom line is that the incidence of violence commited by the orthodox is very low compared to other ethnic groups and the general population at large."
The fact that it may not be reported to the police or is silenced by the askanim and gevirim or is swept under the carpet (surprise) may have something to do with those stats

[Frumish]

Those who in any way support "ultraorthodox" types share their guilt.

If you think its EVER ok to throw rocks at girls (even if your rabbi says you should) then you are a vilde chaya and maybe shouldn't live in America.

[harold]

The fact that it may not be reported to the police or is silenced by the askanim and gevirim or is swept under the carpet (surprise) may have something to do with those stats

In a prior post

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2009/09/letter-from-great-neck-why-do-media-love-jewish-scandals-456.html

I made the following comment - I will repeat it - and I still stand by it.

"... As an example, if it was near midnight and you would be walking down a street and a group of young Chassidim wearing striemels laughing among themselves or a bunch of yeshiva boys with their tzitzits out were coming toward you, would your heart skip a beat (I am sure that there are wise guys in the blog that would say yes) as opposed to a group of young people coming down the street toward you in the South Bronx or Chinatown. The point is that I am proud to be an orthodox jew, but I am not so naïve to believe that we are perfect."

[rabbidw]

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for the good to do nothing. The bystanders are not innocent. They must speak up. Having failed to speak up at the crime they must now come forward.

[ah-pee-chorus]

harold -

if i were a girl dressed in a tank top, i would fear walking in meah shearim more than anywhere else.

[ah-pee-chorus]

and why are the hassidim "laughing among themselves " but not the chinatown youth?
is that another ortho trait?

[steve]

if it was near midnight and you would be walking down a street and a group of young Chassidim wearing striemels laughing among themselves or a bunch of yeshiva boys with their tzitzits out were coming toward you, would your heart skip a beat as opposed to a group of young people coming down the street toward you in the South Bronx or Chinatown

If it is a female wearing jeans and a t-shirt walking in Mea Shearim or RBS2, she would have more to fear from a gang of haredim than a gang of gentiles.

[ah-pee-chorus]

would three girls in shorts feel safer in downtown tel-aviv or bnei brak
?

[nobody]

"And so all this explains precisely why the Haredim are so detestable, disgusting, revolting, and abhorrent, to'evat hashem."

Michael, this is incredibly bigoted of you to say such a general statement about all haredim. Similar things are said by some ingrates who hang around this site, but I expect much better from you and am rather disappointed to hear you resort to such attacks despite how (rightfully) frustrated you might be. This is a terrible thing to be saying especially right before Yom Kippur. I hope you will reconsider.

[A. Nuran]

This is attempted aggravated murder.
Soon we will have a case of aggravated murder for the capital crime of not dressing in a burqa.
Since G-d has a low sense of humour I predict it will happen on some Tisha Bev or Yom Kippur.

[steve]

Michael should change one word in his last sentence from "the haredim" to "these haredim".

[harold]

and why are the hassidim "laughing among themselves " but not the chinatown youth?

Ok, the group of young people coming at you from South Bronx or Chinatown are laughing among themselves. Does that make you feel safer?

Boy we have a tough crowd here!

[the Monsey Tzadik]

If you are 13 years ols boy with angelic face where would you feel safer in Yeshiva Torah Temima or in Bronx Science ?

[the Monsey Tzadik]

Wait until Jonathan Resenblum the former Conservative Jew write an article which says that the girl deserves what she got. After all she can have all the country where she can dress immodestly , the resident of RBS have only RBS to live according to their principles therefore they have the right to beat up the inconsiderate girl who invaded their space.

I am sure he heard from a rabbi (who never lies) that David Morris who is Modern Orthodox and not haredi also beats up girls.

[Ben]

To throw large stones is terrible. There must be other ways to influence secular girls. For example beating them with the cable (as muslims recommend) would be both effective and less dangerous to life.

[Shmarya]

Wait until Jonathan Resenblum the former Conservative Jew write an article which says that the girl deserves what she got.

To be fair, I believe Rosenblum provided the first print media confirmation of the attack on Miriam Sher in the mehadrin bus and condemned that attack.

I doubt he will in any way endorse this violence.

Blindness to child sexual abuse, horrible as that is, does not necessarily translate to blindness about other crimes.

[reggie]

Harold, the point you made about feeling safe in an ultraorthodox neighberhood vs a secular one is well taken. And certainly, you should be proud of being a frum Jew. But you must understand that violence has many facets. Perhaps charedi youth won't randomaly walk around acting violantly, but what about spousal abuse, child abuse (not the sexual kind) and violence towards those within the community who do not conform to the community's standard. And I did not even get to the SHABABNIK'S sickening acts within the Hareidi population. Obviously these things also occure in chiloni society, but let us be honest: that society is a lot more transparent the the hidden ultrafrum society. and those who commit these heinous acts are shunned and/or reported to the police. In chareidi society, increasingly, the opposite is true. Not only are these people not reported, they are given a pat on the back and retain their position in that society. When you factor all these facts the violence may be comparable to secular society's

[reggie]

Shmarya, you are quite correct about Rosenblum's expose and viewpoint regarding the Sher incident

[Dr. Dave]

There is a commandment (hocheiach tocheciach) to correct a fellow Jew. (It does not include the use of deadly force.)

This commandment must be followed.

By the chareidim.

NOT to correct other Jews, but to correct themselves.

Until they learn to eschew the use of violence in any form towards any human being - but especially women, police, meidcal staff and soldiers they cannot consider themselves holy, nor can they "correct" the activities of anyone else.

[sage]

+++ NOT to correct other Jews, but to correct themselves. +++

How can those, who seem to be un-correctable correct themselves?

[ML]

How come we never hear about big burly man being attacked? It's always a woman (or two, at most).

[reggie]

"How come we never hear about big burly man being attacked? It's always a woman"

The simple answer is that they are pathetic cowards. But I think it probably goes a lot deeper than that. These "men" have some major sinister, dark, hidden issues. Freud would probably have a field day analyzing them

[Guillermo DaGoy]

Wait until some shiksa tourist unknowingly finds herself in the wrong place at the wrong time. Won't be pretty for her or the Office of Tourism.

[Hometown Postville]

These are not men, they are narcisisic animals looking for excuses to throw their testosterone around! Women must wield some sort of inner power that the men feel they must be control freaks to keep it from becoming unleashed.

[Maskil]

How come we never hear about big burly man being attacked? It's always a woman...

To understand this one must first understand how the haredim decide to enforce their standards of modesty. It is not an even enforcement of Jewish law on any Jew. If an elderly, hideous or obese woman is not dressed modestly she will not be chastised. The offending person is rated in hotness on a scale from one to ten and is then harassed in proportion to the rating. (One deemed four or lower in hotness is seldom if ever bothered.)

Shmarya,

There is an article in today's Maariv Hebrew language paper about this. Like the articles you posted there are no names, locations or even a date for this "attack" (just two pashvils - one anonymous and one from Regev - & the Mishpacha article, but plenty of commentary). If you know anything about journalism you'll know that in no other country could this be published as a news article - it doesn't meet basic journalistic standards. I am beginning to wonder whether this "attack" ever happened. Please keep posting if you get the slightest story backing up this rumor.

[Shmarya]

The attack was in Bet Shemesh. Posted on it a week or so ago.

The original report came from an Israeli haredi news site.

[Maskil]

Yeah, I got the name of the city together with the country, continent and planet. I mean like a street or other landmark so people who where "there" could be asked about the story. No location is given. Have you contacted any of these reporters to see if the story has a credible origin?

When someone with a kippah so much as sneezes near Karta parking lot the media is all over it. The only way someone through a cinderblock at a hilonit in Bet Shemesh (and there is not one actual news story on it) is if the woman was not only not hit by the object (as claimed) but also that neither she nor anyone else noticed it.

The only witness to this event was "the anonymous caller" who notified the editor of Mishpacha and told him about the incident and also sent him the pashkvil. He may just have been the only witness to the alleged event. Yeshiva World News and Regev could have picked up the story from Mishpacha. (Regev would probably not admit to having no real evidence the attack occured now that he's made such a fuss about it.)

Just find one real news story that has a singel verifiable detail from this and later we can speculate on the media blackout. For now it seems safe to presume this story is fiction (or fantasy - depending on your perspective). Post any updates to keep the public advised of any change in that.

[Shmarya]

Haredi rabbis in Bet Shemesh issued pashkvils against the attack, condemning it. They did so before any media reports, based on eyewitness testimony.

In fact, the first haredi news reports – the first news reports of any kind – about the attack were based on those pashkvils and information from those rabbis and from eyewitnesses.

[Maskil]

Haredi rabbis in Bet Shemesh issued pashkvils against the attack, condemning it.

No. Aside from Regev there are no signed pashkvils. You can't quote a rabbi, you can't quote a reporter, and you can't quote a witness.

In fact, the first haredi news reports – the first news reports of any kind – about the attack were based on those pashkvils...

Again, unsigned. Do you still think this story has any integrity? You owe it to your readers to publicize any further news on this story that can either verify it or debunk it.

[Shmarya]

No.

YES.

Again, haredi nes site reported it, published the pashkvils and interviewed rabbis and witnesses.

[Maskil]

Look, I'm just asking that you make a new post if you get a better, more credible update. If there is such a woman who was struck by a cinderblock she has to have a hospital record somewhere and there has to be a police report somewhere. Furthermore, if there were witnesses they must have names and if haredi rabbis condemnded the attack they must have names. But no one, not you nor any news reporter has any of these names or has verified any of the reports/records. It just doesn't add up, and it's lacking any hint of journalistic integrity (yet, surprisingly, you overlooked this hook, line & sinker).

Again, I'm just asking that if you find anything more concrete in the future you make a new post.

[Shmarya]

The original reports say police opened a file, but only after they were approached by outside people.

The girl did not immediately go to police.

In Israel, especially in haredi communities, police often look the other way, because they don't want to get involved in a situation that can lead to riots and other difficulties.

And Bet Shemesh police have been notorious in this regard for several years, already.

As bizarre as it may seem to you, the report is credible.