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August 27, 2009


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Mr. Apikoros

I was being sarcastic, "nobody." Sarcasm and irony are alien to both you and your alterego "Alternative Childcare."

Actually, Shoprites are franchised, or at least some are. The ones in my neck of the woods are owned by an Italian family. Thus it would be theoretically possible that Haredim own some Shoprites.


Well they are American technically. But culturally they are very different, a sort of minority group, not in mainstream culture. So I was making the distinction in that regard, culturally. You can't just take away their citizenship because you hate them.

But my main point was that Shoprite is not controlled by them, it's a normal american place, so what exactly were you trying to insinuate?

The hasidim take a different approach where they are a minority in America. IMO, in Israel they feel like they "own the place" so they are more willing to get coercive in regards to the outside culture. This is completely against their supposedly "antizionist" principles to get involved with anything or to think they "own" anything. Sort of a contradiction. But that is the way they've developed in the last few decades. But in America it seems they only really meddle with the authorities over their own district (within kiryas joel). Outside they are just patrons like everyone else and residents like everyone else utilizing the nice area that monroe is for all people.

Mr. Apikoros

Hey "nobody," we finally agree on something, aside from the fact that you're ugly.

You said "Monroe is a normal American suburban town...with many American people livie in it (many more thn kj hasidim who are confined to kj for the most part).

I totally agree that the people living in Kiryas Joel aren't American.

Mr. Apikoros

Mrs. A? The first time you called me that, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and considered it a typo.

Why don't we meet someplace, and you can call me "Mrs. A" to my face.

Better bring "Alternative Childcare" along, schmendrick. You'll need lots of help.

You're a poor excuse for a Jew, and an even poorer excuse for a man, she/he.


Anyway, Mrs. A, you are asking a silly question because it is a normal Shoprite, like any other American shoprite because Monroe is a normal American suburban town (more and more commercialized over the years) with many American people living in it (many more than kj hasidim who are confined to kj for the most part). Kiryas Joel is only a small portion of Monroe, and it is its own ghetto of sorts within the greater town.

Many of the kj hasidim are patrons of the local MONROE shopright, (they come OUT of their KJ to shop there) along with all the other american (jewish and nonjewish) monroe residents who shop there. It's a shopright like any other, without stipulations.


There are bungalow colonies in Monroe? (Where?) I thought those were farther upstate....

Bungalow Babe

Hi Mr. Apikoros,

Wow. Interesting theory. I did get chills thinking that Diane Shuler passed through this town en route to the Taconic.

Never checked out the liquor shops in KJ on a Sunday morning...or any other morning.

I did wanna go there earlier to pick up some kosher meat for Shabbat but couldn't find a skirt that is long enough. And now, it's probably too late as shops close early on Friday.

So I am going to ShopRite to try my luck in the kosher section.

In my running shorts and tank top.

Shabbat Shalom!

Mr. Apikoros

Does that Shoprite have separate entrances for men and women? How about separate checkout lines?

Send in the bulldozers, pave it over (but keep the Shoprite).

Seriously, Bungalow Babe, I have a question. In New York State, liquor stores cannot open before noon on Sunday. In Shomer Shabbot places (such as Kiryas Joel), are the liquor stores open before noon? It would be unfair for them to shut down on Saturday and Sunday morning, when nobody else does both days.

The reason I ask is I believe that woman, Diane Schuler, who killed herself and eight others bought (and started drinking) her vodka well after she left her campgrounds, traveled southeast on Route 17, then got into her "accident" on the east side of the Hudson, in Briarcliff Manor.

If one can buy booze on Sunday morning in or around Kiryas Joel, it might be a lead.

Bungalow Babe

As a summer resident at a bungalow colony in Monroe (check out the action at http://bungalow-babe.blogspot.com), I cannot express the on-going disgust that the local Jewish community feels at the scandal-fest that is Kiryas Joel.

What the heck are these people thinking??? Aside from the inherent WRONGNESS of their deeds, do they truly have no awareness of how they are being perceived?

I don't expect to be invited to any Satmar BBQs any time soon(though we do have friends in the community who are dissidents -- the wife secretly spreads news of the only halakhically-approved birth control method, the IUD, to prevent the child neglect and abuse that comes from having overly-large families, and not enough money) but as a summer visitor to the region, I have to sound off about their supreme unfriendliness and clannishness, though they behaviors are obviously the least of their transgressions.

IF one were seeking to find an example of a Jewish community gone wrong, with stereotypical "dirty" and "crooked" Jews, Kiryas Joel is almost too easy a target.

It is slum-like in parts, a source of incessant and often flagrant violations and criminal behavior. Sorry to say but personal hygience is not a top priority, judging from my experience of waiting on line with Satmar men at the local ShopRite.

And then there is Kiryas Joel's rap sheet -- leaders lying to get government funding. stealing local resources, building without permission, unlicensed schools...and the ongoing shondas.

Several years ago, when a bear killed a little Satmar girl up in Woodbridge or Woodbourne, I was shocked to hear a local guy comment that "those people" value boys more than girls and the mother "gave" the little girl to the bear to save the son.

Naturally, I got into a heated encounter with the townie, informing him that I was part of "those people," even if I was not Satmar, and that he was a complete moron if he believed what he said.

A friend with whom I shared the story, (a local Jew), rolled his eyes and filled me in on the endless stream of misdeeds and scandals coming from the community.

Nothing justifies racist beliefs but the Satmar community of Kiryas Joel has given the town of Monroe -- and neighboring communities -- plenty to find hateful.


NotParticularlyFrumButSickOfBS asks:
"So where do we go from here?"

The answer is the same answer our mothers, bubbies, and if you were lucky, alter bubbies told us - BE A MENTCH!

Jews need to prioritize all the rules, regulations, restrictions, and prohibitions. The criteria for this prioritization is the goal of being a mentch each and every day.

And another thing: America has been very good to us. The metchlicht thing for us to do is return the favor. That means follow the laws, pay the taxes, be a supportive part of the greater community of Jews and non-Jews.

Good Shabbos


Seymour: I came to Boro Park 35 years ago as someone from a non frum home who was looking for God. I was always very much bothered by the fact that frum Jews were crooked when it came to government issues - lying and falsifying records to get money for yeshivas etc., food stamps, welfare. We used to joke that FRUM stood for "Food stamps, Rent subsidy, Welfare (in Yiddish - starts with a vav), and Medicaid." We didn't have the abuse scandals then. But I always felt that this idea of "b'shvili nivra ha-olam" has gone too far. They always used the Holocaust as an excuse.

The same thing is true, however, with the state of Israel - stealing Palestinian land, expanding settlements, treating Palestinians like crap - has only increased the danger to the Jews living in Eretz Yisroel. What is the justification? "God gave us this land". Well, God also gave us the responsibility to be the very best possible human beings, by keeping His commandments and not desecrating the Torah.

The frum community has blown it. And the non-frum community has never even made an effort. So where do we go from here? Israel is NOT the answer; if anything it just raises alot more questions.


Yet another school operating without permits, flagrantly breaking zoning laws, etc. Never ends.
The funniest part of the article?
"Isidor Landau, the Spring Valley man who bought the newly built house for $800,000 in 2004, later referred questions to his attorney, whom he wouldn't identify."

Here's how that must have sounded:
"Mr. Landau, please explain this crazy situation and your involvement in it."
"Not talking to you. I don't need to answer your questions. You want, talk to my lawyer."
"OK, that's fair. What's his name?"
"Not talking to you. I don't need to answer your questions."
Charedi chutzpah knows no bounds. THEIR INSANITY NEVER ENDS.


I worked in Boro Park for years as an electrician. I saw construction sites that operated without building permits as a matter routine. I saw complete disregard for worker safety. At the end of the week I had to chase the "boss" all over town to get paid. My education into chareidi modus operandi began early in my career. Funny the more things change the more they stay the same.


I am happy I do not see people here yelling antisemitism. The frum community is really starting to get on nerves and thinking on starting some anticheridie group.

They do all these type of things and when they get caught they yell antisemitism. I really am getting tom believe that some are taking the chosen people a little to far, and really thinking they are so much gresater than others that society rules really does not apply yto them

here is how they think

lets see

we can break the rules and
scream antisemitism when caught

we can have maids but collect welfare and food stamps

we do not need to comply with zoning laws
however we can enforce zoning laws when it goes against our interest

we scream, people should be tolerant about us having a school where it is not zoned for However, we are not tolerant when the city wants to make a public street friendly for cyclist, and say we live here respect us. Of course we do not have to respect others when we want something

Our perverts should not be treated like perverts when they molest our children or goyish children

Pervert that are not Jewish should be put in jail for a long time

Our fraudsters should be given a pass since he needed to feed his family (i laugh at that)
Other fraudsters throw the book at them there is no excuse for doing fraud.

When a frum yid does fraud he only did it for the yeshiva community or leshem shamaeym and should not be punished
a goy does the same thing he did it because he is a greedy pig

the believe of the ultra drum


You know, if police departments would commit to just bringing in social services and taking the kids away the very hour they found such an unlicensed "school" or "camp," you can bet there'd be a lot more cooperation between the Chereidi and the authorities and a lot less of this "no adult here wants to talk with you" crap.

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