Haredim Want Separate Sidewalks For Men And Women

Women ordered to walk on the opposite side of the street.

Jerusalem: Haredim bring segregation to the street
Group of Neturei Karta activists tour capital's ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods on Friday, call on men and women to use separate sidewalks
Ari Galahar • Ynet

A group of ultra-Orthodox men took to the streets of the haredi neighborhoods in Jerusalem last Friday and called on the public to adhere to a complete separation between men and women in certain areas of the city.

The activists toured the streets near Geula neighborhood in taxicabs and announced, using  megaphones that on some streets men and women should walk on opposite sides of the road during the weekend.

 

According to a resident of the neighborhood, Avraham Cohen, those responsible for the initiative belong to the extremist Neturei Karta stream. "The leading rabbis of the ultra-Orthodox public do not support this initiative," he said. "This group decided to on their won accord go into the neighborhoods and set new modesty codes." 
 
However, eyewitnesses said that although the segregation had not been sanctioned by prominent spiritual authorities, most passersby heeded the call last Saturday. "During the noon hours when women go out for a stroll and the men go to the synagogue, men and women walked on different sidewalks," one resident said.

But the same level of separation was reportedly not observed on the busy Friday, when the streets are regularly packed with crowds.

Comments

[Yosef ben Matitya]

• Stores In Jerusalem Introduce Separate Entrances For Men And Women
. Haredim Want Separate Sidewalks For Men And Women
Why not move the whole lot to Kandahar or Mazar el Sharif in Afghanistan, maybe, if they discarded qabbala, the Taliban will accept them as pure monotheists, who knows?

[Yosef ben Matitya]

oh!
i fergot to mention:
separate entrances to shuls,
discouraging ladies from going to shul altogether,
and making sure those of the ladies that do go to shul, leave a good 20 minutes before the end of the services lest they bump into men in the street (which would be like mixing of the sexes in pizzerias or falafel stands chos vecholileh)

[Mr. Apikoros]

Why are these "men" all holding hands and skipping?

[A. Nuran]

Attempted murder of public officials - yes mass stoning is attempted murder. Arson. Fraud and theft declared to be spiritual virtues. Rioting. Taliban-like restrictions on women. OCD food taboos. Living off the generosity of your fellow Jews while holding those who feed and clothe you in utter contempt.

If this is Real Judaism(tm), other options are beginning to sound a lot more attractive. At least I'd be able to hold my wife's hand every day of the month and eat scampi. The Sikhs have better hats. The Buddhists don't want me to toss rocks at anyone. And Vodun throws infinitely better parties.

[happy]

their happy...

[A. Nuran]

Yosef, if the Haredim moved to most Muslim countries and meekly accepted their status as dimmi everyone except the Saudis would be happy to accept them. And most of the Black Hats would be happy. After all, being a nigger in an Arab country is a lot like being a nigger in Czarist Russia. Let 'em go and good riddance.

But it wouldn't work. These twits place their Rabbis above god. So they wouldn't be real monotheists.

Apikoros, in all seriousness there's probably a hell of a lot of, umm, brotherly love going in in the yeshivas. Societies which have extreme segregation of young men and women tend to have an awful lot of homosexual activity. It isn't spoken about. It's condemned and always punished severely. But it happens. Young people with over-active hormones, no access to members of the opposite sex, close emotional bonds with same-sex peers and no idea of how to deal with the other flavor. Figure out where the lines cross on that particular graph.

[Michael Makovi]

Mr. Apikorus,

To put a human face on them?

[Mr. Apikoros]

Brotherly love?

Funny, they don't look like they're in Philadelphia.

Can you imagine the reaction of Philly's citizens if this bunch of girlie-men skipped down Market Street?

[Ex BT]

Someone ought to rein these boys in before they do some real damage.

A phalanx of female IDF soldiers??

[esty]

Can someone tell me please why they get all the rights and no responsiilites?

[seymour]

It seems there is competition amongst heridiem, who can be the most frum or outdo each other with their nuttiness

Like some metal bands each one wants to be more outrageous.

What happens if I live on the side of the street that they say are for woman. how do I get out of my house do I fly over them? Or maybe a shobbos bus can pick me up

I propose every married couple have two houses so the separate to brother and sisters.

[seymour]

Avraham Cohen, those responsible for the initiative belong to the extremist Neturei Karta stream. "The leading rabbis of the ultra-Orthodox public do not support this initiative,"

then why on busses

[Ben Amalek]

These people do perform one useful function, in that they demonstrate to the world the fundamental political and moral weakness of an Israeli political establishment that believes it cannot and therefore will not swat them aside. (Which they easily could, as simply by cutting off their state subsidies for sitting on their behinds and "learning.") Such a state is not long for the world.

[Shlomo]

The problem IMHO is that people meekly accepted their "decree". No-one wants to be seen as less frum chas vesholem so they just copy everyone else hence the same clothing hats etc even in the midst of summer.
It also makes me wonder if this is my religion (or cult)

[Ben]

I suggest to create separate cities and villages. Some cities will be exclusively for women and others exclusively for men. This would allow people to be most pious.

Or wait! Someone already invented it, they are called monsteries.

[Shlomo]

"they are called monsteries"
Is this a misspelling or purposeful

[Tonda]

The best solution would be to let them have their seperation. By at least 20 miles.

In less than a generation or two, they will have eliminated themselves through total gender seperation and non-propogation.

On a side note. In nearby Lakewood (NJ), hassidim in the pas were having a high incidence of being hit by cars because of their insistance to walk on the streets instead of the sidewalks. Their "justification" for this was that the Goy used the sidewalks, and thus it was unclean. The police tried to stop this practice by issuing tickes, but this was stopped after complaints and demonstrations.

Orthodox Judiasm seems determined to Darwin themselves into extinction...

[Tonda]

... in the pas(t) ...

[seymour]

On a side note. In nearby Lakewood (NJ), hassidim in the pas were having a high incidence of being hit by cars because of their insistance to walk on the streets instead of the sidewalks. Their "justification" for this was that the Goy used the sidewalks, and thus it was unclean. The police tried to stop this practice by issuing tickes, but this was stopped after complaints and demonstrations.

Orthodox Judiasm seems determined to Darwin themselves into extinction...

is that true or just an urban myth?

Now I see why we are having all this fraud problem we are walking on the same sidewalks as Goyim, and their badness is rubbing of on us.

Or, more likely it is the other way around?

Just a few ideas for the lunatic fringe of our religion

Don't walk
Men Walk
Woman Walk

Separate shopping hours for all stores

Weddings should be over two days different day for woman and the men

Children once they reach 5 cannot be seen by the opposite sex of their parents

For people who are really against homosexuality, they do seem to want to hang with their own sex alot.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Good idea, although Norplant and other birth control devices will get the job done quicker.

In the interim, I guess I'll have to drive down to Lakewood, park, and walk on the "unclean" sidewalks, as I don't want to walk in the streets and associate myself with frumbags.

[SJ]

Israel should send in tanks to deal with the haredim already. They wanna act like middle eastern sheikdoms they can get treated like middle eastern sheikdoms.

[norm]

The anwer is for every mainstream Jew to demand that his or her local Federation funding any relgious group or school which segregates by sex, refuses to enter non orthdox synagoges or won't listen to women sing.

[anycomment]

the site's headline is very misleading, and it seems that those commenting haven't bothered to read the article.

the headline should indicate that:

"those responsible for the initiative belong to the extremist Neturei Karta stream."

and that:

"The leading rabbis of the ultra-Orthodox public do not support this initiative"

So as it turns out:

Hareidim do not support separate sidewalks for men and women

In a democracy, a very small group, in this case extremists w/i the extremist NK demonstrate for something -- which is not supported by the vast majority on Chareidim -- and this site attributes their views to all Chareidim.

[Honestly Frum]

I was wondering what took so long for them to decide this, I have been aying that this is coming for years.

[Hometown Postville]

How do they procreate with so many restrictions? Does the poor woman have to put a bag over her head? From the looks of the photo, I would not want to associate with those goons anyway!

[Yochanan Lavie]

Frummy Lane (apologies to Beatles)

In Frummy lane there is a bochur showing photographs
Of every Rebbe he's had the pleasure to know.
And all the Yidden that come and go
Stop and greet Shlomo.

On the corner is a bochur with an Egged Bus,
The little children laugh at him behind his back.
And the women must sit in the back
In the pouring rain, very strange.

Frummy lane is in my ears and in my wallet.
There beneath the blue Israeli summit
I seethe, and meanwhile back

In Frummy lane there is a Rebbe with a beit midrash
And in his pocket is a portrait of his "queen."
He likes to keep his talmidim clean,
With his clean "machine."

Frummie lane is in my ears and in my noodle.
Gefilte fish and lukshen kugel
On Shabbos, meanwhile back

Behind the yeshiva in the middle of the men's sidewalk
The pretty bochur is selling sefarim from a tray
And tho' he feels as if he wants to play, he does anyway.

In Frummy lane the rabbi enslaves another young sucker,
We see the bochur sitting waiting for some trim.
And then the frummie man rushes in
From the pouring chrayn, very strange.

Frummy lane is in my ears and in my eyes.
There beneath Israeli subsidies
I sit, and wear a hat of black.
Frummy lane is in my ears and in my eyes.
There beneath the blue Israeli skies,
Frummy lane.

[ah-pee-chorus]

Yochanan Lavie : hilarious,,, and it seems you are even getting a bit more edgy.

[ah-pee-chorus]

the rabbis have announced that from now on , all girls who are born shall undergo immediate sex change operation to ensure that they will not become slutty tempstresses who ruin the bochrim.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Thanks again.

[ah-pee-chorus]

how would a holy man like king david have been able to acquire a harem of hundreds of concubines and pick out a married woman he wanted to have sex with and then kill her husband if he wouldnt have been able to see them somewhere? they are being very short-sighted. kings david and shlomo would be really pissed.

[R]

Neturei karta ought to be carted out of israel and sent with compliments to Iran. I like how no one agrees with them but people still listen to them. More out of fear probably because if you dared walk on the same side as the opposite sex you would probably be beaten up.

[Dave Marshall]

Evan, excellent ! Hilarious !

[maven]

If anyone ever walked down the street in Geula you'd see this was not anywhere close to a reality. Guys drive around and announce things from cars all day, from Arabs yelling "alte zachen" in Yiddish to various funeral announcements, etc. You could have a similar posting every five minutes; who knows if they weren't just pranking everyone? A few years ago a professor at Bar Ilan made a brilliant pashkeval ordering all families to keep their daughters locked in the house and not go out or to school, and then the next year another one banning the study of Neviim and Ketuvim.
Everyone on this blog is getting addicted to chumra-porn :)

[Asa]

Tonda, it should be kind of awesome if it were the haredim who inadvertently proved the validity of Darwin's theories, don't you think?

great posts, all. I find it interesting that any time something like this happens there's always a disclaimer that goes, "the head rabbis do not approve of this..." What are you a head rabbi for, then? What exactly are you head of?

[seymour]

maven

true but sometimes this is how it starts

[Yochanan Lavie]

Chumra Porn?

Debbie does Devarim
Beyond the Green Mezzuzah
Deep Torah

[phillip]

A bunch of men in strange clothing...
skipping down the street.... with
arms joined together...

Did I mention that their coats are very
long.... may be a bunch of gay..flashers.
No wonder they do not to be around women
since they have eachother.

[L.Krawitz]

As a South African I have experienced what these men are trying to enforce...

It's called - APARTHEID !

Except this time it's sexist and not racist.

So, nu... whats new?

[Kiryas Mishigos]

Enough with these minor prohibitions. Let's logically cut this off at the beginning: No women should be allowed to give birth to males. what a defilement!!!

[Alex]

I think the next step should be that of middle age monks. Haredim should have absolutely no interaction with women and should be completely celibate and concentrate on their study of Torah. After all if one gets bad thoughts from seeing women on the same side of the street, how can one live with one?

I am waiting for some rabbi to issue this decree.

[Audrey the Liberal]

Soon, the mythical "Hole in the Sheet" may just become reality.

[L.Krawitz]

re - Alex's posting that there should be Jewish monks.

What a brilliant idea.

Jewish 'monasteries'...

Radical yeshivas are already half way there.

It would certainly be an effective way to get rid of all those misogynists.

[Tonda]

Why did the Haredim cross the road?
To get to the Kosher side.

How many Jewish monks does it take to change a light bulb?
None! That's a woman's job! And we won't defile our Monestary by letting one in here. Let it stay blown out!

This stuff just writes itself!

(Sorry, late in the day. And it's been a long day)

[maven]

YL: LOL! But I was thinking more along Kurt Vonnegut's "Welcome to the Monkey House" where the society would get off watching people eat. I remember living in a charedi neighborhood where groups of women would go through the charedi supermarket with their rebbetzin who would say with a scowl, "yes, its badatz, but we don't like that particular Rav", etc.

Seymour: But this has been going on for decades! I remember once in my life getting aroused by a pashkaval, a real one hanging in Meah Shearim, outlining specifically which types of nylon stockings are allowed and which are prohibited (so those with the line coursing gently up the calf and thigh are forbidden...)

[R]

ha ha ha.
BTW i like the idea of chumra porn. You can only watch it in the dark with no lights on.

[Tonda]

Because watching it in the dark with the lights ON would be difficult.

[seymour]

maven,,
remember those sign I guess they still have them that woman should dress modestly in Meir sheriom or not come here with a whole bunch of other nonsense.

I worked in a chaseddesh camp, and right before shobbos, I had to time it correctly so there was no time to take it down done for shobbos reasons not be seen putting the sign up.

I posted one of those posters right by the entrance of the dining room where most of the woman chesedesh woman entered.

A fun weekend

[Binyamin]

But this already exists...in New Square...I took pictures of the signs, which say (in Yiddish, of course) "menner zeit" and "frauen zeit"...to the great credit of the citizens of N.S., they were ignoring the directive...wonder what's happening there now...

[Mr. Apikoros]

I'll have to take a trip to New Square with my shikse fiancee, and go for a little walk on the sidewalk. I guess in this case it doesn't matter which side we walk on.

I dare some frumbag to try to stop us.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Binyamin, can you post these pictures? I just sent off an E-mail on this matter to Ellen Jaffee, the State Assemblywoman in whose district New Square is included.

[alternative childcare]

Mr Apikoros: No one would try to stop you, they tend to be respectful to the elderly, so you don't have to worry.

Your "shiksa" girlfriend, if she found out you were calling her "vermin" in public, would likely leave you. You are really combine all the worst elements; you use Jewish nasty language about non Jews, and Nazi language about Jews. You should get off this site.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Why don't you kick me off, girlie-man?

[Alex]

I wish somebody would do a Borat-style movie on Haredim. There would be so much material to choose from.

[ah-pee-chorus]

Alex: have you seen bill maher's "religulous"?

[alternative childcare]

Mr"Apikoros", I'll leave that for your girlfriend to do. But if you ever want to meet up some day on Emek Refaim, I'll be glad to teach you what 'sayerret' means.

[WoolSIlkCotton]

Mr. A, you rule!

[alternative childcare]

WSC: That's no surprise, given the way you describe yourself. Are you over 60 as well?:

If it helps you any, I am also a member of PETA, a union where I work, I am a liberal democrat who supports Obama, I sometimes eat nonkosher food, I date a nonJewish woman, and I am a subscriber to the Forward (as was my father).

[Mr. Apikoros]

I would love to meet up with you, little girl. I have never hit a woman, but in your case, I'll be happy to make an exception.

You name the time and place. I'll be there. And you know what, faygeleh, I'll be waiting alone.

Now go fuck Ingrid Newkirk with Rosie O'Donnell's dildo, like a good lesbian.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Alternative Childmolester:

You're as much a member of Sayerret Matkal as I am a defensive lineman for the NY Giants. If you actually belonged to Sayerret Matkal, you would be keeping your mouth shut about it.

What you are is a troll.

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

"I'll have to take a trip to New Square with my shikse fiancee, and go for a little walk on the sidewalk. I guess in this case it doesn't matter which side we walk on. I dare some frumbag to try to stop us."

Just don't do it on Friday afternoon. They'll be jumping all over each other fighting as to who gets to invite you for Shabbos.

[alternative childcare]

Violence, always violence from you nazi loving types threatened against Jews. By the way, your assumption of my being gay is as accurate as your understanding of Judaism. I'm happily married to a German convert to Judaism; we met in Israel and have lovely kids.

So next time you come to Israel, we can meet up in Emek Refaim, and after you take your antihypertensives, laxatives, antipsychotics, etc, you can attempt to unleash all your violence, perhaps threaten everyone around with more lawsuits, write to your congressman about der verfluchte Jude, etc.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Not once they see my girlfriend (fiancee actually). Not only is she a shikse, she's a SISTAH, and my hunch is that the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's never arrived in New Square.

[Mr. Apikoros]

AC: "I date a non-Jewish woman"

Does your German wife who converted to Judaism know about your shikse girlfriend?

[alternative childcare]

"she's a SISTAH"

Where were you brought up? In one small series of posts you managed to use "shiksa", "sistah", "girlie-man", you really are a walking sewer. Its good you have been bred out of the Jewish people.

And its nice that you know how to use wikipedia, though apparently you didn't read the article all the way through.

[alternative childcare]

MrA: That was a quote from WoolSilkCotton who was dating the non-Jewish women.

On principle, I would only have Jewish mistresses.

Oh, and when did you play for the NY Giants?

[Mr. Apikoros]

Sorry buddy, you just got caught with your skirt down.

WSC only posted once on this thread, and said:

Mr. A., you rule!

Then your post:

WSC: That's no surprise, given the way you describe yourself. Are you over 60 as well?:

If it helps you any, I am also a member of PETA, a union where I work, I am a liberal democrat who supports Obama, I sometimes eat nonkosher food, I date a nonJewish woman, and I am a subscriber to the Forward (as was my father).

Posted by: alternative childcare | August 12, 2009 at 01:57 PM

Then, your next post (there was no intervening response from WSC):

Violence, always violence from you nazi loving types threatened against Jews. By the way, your assumption of my being gay is as accurate as your understanding of Judaism. I'm happily married to a German convert to Judaism; we met in Israel and have lovely kids.

So next time you come to Israel, we can meet up in Emek Refaim, and after you take your antihypertensives, laxatives, antipsychotics, etc, you can attempt to unleash all your violence, perhaps threaten everyone around with more lawsuits, write to your congressman about der verfluchte Jude, etc.

Posted by: alternative childcare | August 12, 2009 at 03:11 PM

Therefore, I must conclude that between 1:57 PM and 3:11 PM, either you contradicted yourself or you got married. Since I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, Mazeltov!

Be sure you bring along your Cialis to the nuptials.

[alternative childcare]

I understand you aren't the brightest bulb in the room, but the line starting "if it helps you any..." is from a post by woolsilkcotton on a different thread. I obviously share very few things with that list other than having been a liberal democrat when I lived in the US.
I'm not familiar with Cialis, is that one of the meds you are on? Perhaps when I too start reading AARP.

[Mr. Apikoros]

From what I have heard, it works better than Viagra, Kommando Weichschwanz.

[alternative childcare]

Thanks for the drug info.

I sincerely hope that you and your girlfriend find the right medication that helps the two of you find happiness.

Perhaps then you won't be so concerned with venting all that frustration upon the Jews and their websites.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Alternative, you must have gone deep into the FM archives, searching all afternoon, to come up with that old quote from me in your second paragraph at 1:57.

I have no similar interest in researching you, because I have a life and a full-time job.

If I am approaching 60 (I'm 53), how is that a source of ridicule? I salute and envy Mr. A's obvious virility and great masculinity, and hope to be also when I reach 60.

Meanwhile, go back to your yeshiva studies. And please, don't return to America.

[alternative childcare]

WSC: Thank you for your kind words. I am happy to continue my yeshiva studies in Israel while voting for Obama as a US citizen.

I hope you remain virile, happy, and healthy way past 70. I also hope you won't feel insecure enough about it to keep proving it by threatening Jews with violence on a daily basis like Mr "Apikoros".

[WoolSilkCotton]

AC,
Unfortunately, some of our fellow Jews could stand to be grabbed by the lapels and shaken vigorously. And so I agree with Mr. A, and I admire his energetic approach and suggestions on how to provide new perspectives for some of our coreligionists.

If you find yourself in Rananah, please visit my grandmother's grave.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Thank you for wishing my fiancee and I well, AC, but I don't need Viagra. Never have.

When my dad died, a widower at age 89, I went through his stuff and found a prescription vial half full of Viagra pills. After my mother died, five years prior to him, he got himself a lovely shikse girlfriend, about 8 years his junior.

I guess at some point, maybe 23 years from now when I hit 85, I'll need Viagra, too. And like my dad, I'll have occasion to use it.

The definition of shikse, BTW, is an attractive non-Jewish woman that Sophie Portnoy wouldn't want her son to date or even worse, marry.

[Mr. Apikoros]

WSC:

The last time I actually got into a fight was in 1984. I had just completed a 6-mile jog around Central Park, and was sitting on a bench just outside the park (5th Avenue side) drinking an Orangina. It was about 7 PM on a Sunday night in late October, and it was getting dark.

On an adjacent bench was a thug with a hoodie, maybe 20 (I was 37). We kind of glared at each other, and I moved to another bench further away.

Suddenly, a very attractive woman whom I knew as a kid, who was and is the wife of a very well-known hedge fund manager, crossed the street with her little dog, and walked into the park. The thug got up and started stalking her. By this time it was almost pitch black.

I looked in the street, picked up a big piece of tailpipe which was conveniently laying there, and went after the guy. He saw me and ran. I chased him across the road which circumnavigates the park and lost him somewhere. No punches or other blows were thrown.

When I returned, both the woman and her dog were gone.

This happened two months before Bernie Goetz shot the four hoodlums that were about to rob him. Ironically, I was picked as a potential juror for the trial. The judge asked me if I ever had a confrontation with a black person. I told the story and I was immediately excused.

As far as I'm concerned, Goetz deserved a medal.

[ah-pee-chorus]

WSC: i managed to sneak in a few posts today on VIN under the name APC. i riled a few people up before they removed all my posts. they were in article on rabbi aviner quoting rambam banning non=jews from army, and follow up quoting rabbi metzger disagreeing. you can see missing numbers in both . what fun!!!

[alternative childcare]

Shiksa and the male version Shaygetz means "vermin". You can't make up meanings based on your ignorance. Its like saying "N....>" is a river in Africa. Its a horrible word and I get offended whenever anyone uses it, and certainly my kids will for obvious reasons never use it.

WSC: I have been on this board for a long time and am in no way an advocate for any kind of status quo. However, I do not see how using Nazi terminology, foul words, or threatening Jews with violence over and over again acts to "shake anyone up". Ignorance and violence are not a way to effect real change (cf Sarah Palin and the Teabaggers). Show me one actual "new perspective" that Mr A has contributed.

[WoolSilkCotton]

APC, I too, enjoy occasionally doing an anonymous post on VIN as a goof, claiming everyone and everything is antisemitism, and intentionally misspelling and sounding as retarded as possible. They never stop me!
It's really hopeless to try to win a point there. It is shocking and saddening to see how mentally ill the religious crowd on VIN is, and what this implies for the frum world they represent.

I'll keep an eye out for your postings there!

[Mr. Apikoros]

Shikse shikse shikse. Shaygetz shaygetz shaygetz.

Oy, oy, oy, Hitler was a Shabbos goy.

You get offended awfully easily, AC/DC. Typical of folks with Asparger's Syndrome.

As I said before, now I know why Jerome from Manhattan no longer calls WFAN radio. He's currently living in Israel.

BTW, just to offend you a little more, "Jerome," the Niger River IS a major river in Africa. Like the other "N-River" in Africa, it's infested with crocodiles. Perhaps you can take some time off from your rabbinical studies some Shabbot and go for a nice cool dip in it.

[Mr. Apikoros]

VIN is always good for a laugh. Now I know why, WSC.

[ah-pee-chorus]

++VIN is always good for a laugh++

and a good cry.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Be a cutie, be a smartie, come and join the nazi party!
Spring time for hitler and Germany!

Was Mel Brooks antisemitic? Is The Producers?

Vat iz dis 'baby'? Der fuhrer never called anyone 'baby'!

I cannot image a life more disconnected from reality than being in a yeshiva in Israel. Perhaps, if kept in perspective, it can be a wonderful time to forget about life's real problems and focus on Torah study and self-edification. Unfortunately, I doubt if very many students there have that perspective, and instead become more isolated from reality, and raise their levels of paranoia, persecution, and hate of everyone and everything to new levels.

[alternative childcare]

WSC: First of all, the hesder yeshivot are not disconnected from Israeli society. In my time there we did a great deal of social work, community service, etc. in underprivileged neighborhoods. And we certainly share in the tragedies of Israel's fights for survival, with many friends lost over the recent wars and campaigns. So while there are issues there as well, they tend to be political rather than social and a far cry from the isolation you assume.

Secondly, although I'm glad you think I'm still in yeshiva, I'm actually a scientist at a famous teaching institution dealing with molecular biology with several advanced degrees. Just because I go after Mr A and his violent Nazi outbursts (this chain was motivated by his attack on Nobody) doesn't mean that I'm anything like him. Au contraire.

Rananah is one of my favorite places in Israel, I really wanted to move there but it was too far away from work.

[WoolSilkCotton]

I am also a famous scientist. As my mother (OBM) used to say, I discovered the formula for turning money into drek.

AC, please keep in mind that many of us in the 50-60 age bracket were raised by Holocaust survivors, and typical dinner table conversation with my parents would involve a matter-of-fact casual retelling of some murder or brutal beating they witnessed, an incident of cannibalism they saw, or the details of some roundup of Jews who were put on a truck and never seen again. These conversations were as ordinary in my upbringing as anyone else talking about the Yankees or who was on the Ed Sullivan Show. My sister and I still recount these discussions, and my (nonJewish) ladyfriend is dumbstruck to hear these conversations.
Holocaust imagery taints much of what I think and say on a regular basis. What is appalling for you to hear, and perhaps understandably so, is commonplace for me to think or even to say. And so I ask you to give some slack to us older guys whose use of Holocaust symbolism colors much- probably too much- of what we say and write.

I cannot speak for Mr. A, but I suspect he is of similar upbringing.

Please do not mistake the cynical or caustic use of nazi references as sympathy for nazis. Mel Brooks has made it into a high art form. Remember, the original Producers came out in 1968, when our families still had the Holocaust fresh in our minds, and humor/sarcasm/satire was a common way of dealing with it.

I too have been pissed at Nobody, but I've deferred mixing it up with him (or her), and so I probably wouldn't blame Mr. A for whatever that little skirmish entailed.

[Mr. Apikoros]

It goes:

Don't be stupid, be a smartie,
Come and join the Nazi Party

Dummkopf! :)

[Mr. Apikoros]

Bullshit. AC started going after me long before I ever heard of "Nobody." In fact, it was when I made some unflattering remark about PETA to Yidandahalf. But then AC has long been known for bending the truth a bit, such as claiming I'm a Nazi. In fact, he's insulted Ashkenazic Jews in general by calling them AshkenNAZIs.

"The Producers" was one of my favorite movies (the 1968 version, with Zero Mostel) and one of my favorite Broadway plays, which incidentally won 12 Tony Awards. I'm sure AC was not on the Tony voting committee.

When I was a little kid, my mother, who was an atheist obsessed with a "circle-the-wagons" approach to anti-Semitism, taught me that Christmas trees were inherently anti-Semitic, because the goyim would all get drunk, cut down a tree, and beat up or kill a few Jews in the process. So this is the nonsense I grew up with, kind of reminiscent of the Sophie and Jack Portnoy family in Newark. This despite the fact that our family lost few if any of our ancestors to the Holocaust. Most had emigrated either to the USA long before, or to Palestine. (We also have a sizeable contingent living in Australia, and on my wife's side, of course, in Germany).

[Hometown Postville]

Next thing you know they'll promote poking the eyes out of women because that's the only body part that's exposed- with so much left to the imagination, men might read too much into the nuances of eye movement and get turned on when looking at them!

[WoolSilkCotton]

Women will be required to wear giant sunglasses, or maybe those beekeeper hoods.

[alternative childcare]

I'm bending the truth? Do I need to repost you massive file of violent threats, recurrent use of Nazi language (frequently as insults about Jews), and foul language, all posted to a Jewish site? And of course your fabled lack of knowledge about anything Jewish (you didn't recognize tefilin!) but your prolonged discourses about nazi insignia, ranking, and weaponry?
Talk about bending the truth, the "sizable contingent" in Germany are non-Jews who you claim owned Mein Kampf, a book you repeatedly advocated "everyone should read". You are a creepy individual, not of the background WSC is describing, probably the kind of person many keep their kids away from in the street.
Plus you are originally from Queens, which is a major strike right there...

[Mr. Apikoros]

You apparently have a job, but have so much time to vilify me that you go back and catalog posts on this blog. Is that how empty your life is, Paragraph 175 putz?

Since you've done all this "research," why don't you cut and paste all these supposed "discourses" I made on Nazi insignia, ranking, and weaponry.

And where did I advocate that everyone should read "Mein Kampf?" The fact is, Schwule, that during the Third Reich it was almost mandatory that people purchase Mein Kampf, but very few people bothered to read it for the obvious reasons: It was long winded, repetitive, boring, and terribly written.

I've had enough of your vilification, which would legally be considered "fighting words" in any court in the land.

Were your wife's grandfathers Sturmfuhrers bei SchutzStaffel? Oder Sturmabteilungsmanner? Is that the real reason for your vilification of me? Do you have a guilt complex because you too married a member of the Master Race, and your fellow tzizt'd bochurim have ein Problem mit das?

[alternative childcare]

No one in Israel had any problems with German converts, who were the most numerous group of converts in Israel prior to the Russian aliya. No one German today thinks the way you do about master race, etc. What you are is a bullied old Jew with insecurities who thinks playing a Nazi and attacking everything Jewish will somehow make you more "aryan".
Pathetic.

[Mr. Apikoros]

Ever hear of projection, AC/DC?

[WoolSilkCotton]

AC, you went to a yeshiva that taught midos and decency. Look at others for their merits, not their perceived faults or weaknesses.
Be a real Torah Jew. Offer kindness and forgiveness.
It's just a blog. The way we act anonymously sometimes says more about us than how we act when identities are known.
The very fact that any of us are here is because, at some level or another, we care about being Jewish and about issues that affect our peeps. Maybe some don't express it as nicely as you'd like. Offer an olive branch. Go ahead, be the first. I dare you.

[alternative childcare]

WSC: The line about midos, etc, I accept. I know you care about being Jewish, and I've not gone after people because I disagree with them, only because I was tired of having to see Nazi terminology being hurled around every day on a Jewish site, and it seemed to be more harrassment then about moving towards change. I was happy to not post about MrA for a while after this last happened and he seemed to cut it out, but when he started up with this bullying again it rankled me.
I am mekabel your plea for teshuva and will let the voice of Alternative Childcare disappear, unless there are more posts of a Nazi, racist or violent nature, just as with Archie, etc. I don't find them amusing or beneficial to anyone. So there's my olive branch as we come up to the yomim noraim :)

[Mr. Apikoros]

I will not subject myself to bullying and malicious canards by some self-appointed censor. You, AC, can go back to being "nobody," or staying in your role as AC, but it won't affect what I say in any way.

[WoolSilkCotton]

So we have a framework for peace! I will pour each of us a beer.
L'Chaim!

[Alternative childcare]

WSC: Red Stripe, Blue Label, and Bud Lite? :)

[Mr. Apikoros]

My fiancee is Jamaican. Red Stripe.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Bartender, a round of everyone's favorite drinks!

[Chayim]

Its a good idea to make seperate sidewalks on Shabbos as it makes life easier. We in the United states have several locations that have seperate sidewalks and its convienient.Israel should follow our countries frum communities as well.

[Live free or die]

Why are you all so afraid of women? What is it about us that causes you to want to walk on the other side of the street? Hide behind the skirts of religion all you want...
Try looking in the mirror and facing yourself. Your own fears. Stop blaming it on God, that's not fair to him/her. I'm really tired of all the religious right, Christians, muslims, Jews, Catholics, blaming their problems and insecurities on god. It's an insult to him/her, how dare you.
I don't think of god as male or female, more the spirit that lives within you, whatever "sex" you give it is your god to you.
Wake up and get a life.
Stop saying " I'm a _______, see how humble I am".