Jerusalem Police Commander Condemns Silence Of Haredi Rabbis As Riots Continue

"I have not heard an outcry by [haredi] rabbis or dignitaries calling for an end to the riots. There is no sane element in the ultra-Orthodox community that has stood up and spoke out…Someone needs to wake up because eventually people will get hurt."

Jerusalem police chief: Where are the sane rabbis?
Jerusalem District Police Commander slams rabbis' failure to condemn ultra-Orthodox riots in wake of 'starving mother' affair; 'Someone needs to wake up because eventually people will be hurt,' he says in press briefing
Efrat Weiss • Ynet

Rabbis have not done enough to contain ultra-Orthodox riots in Jerusalem over the arrest of a mother who allegedly starved her son, a senior police official said Thursday.

"I have not heard an outcry by rabbis or dignitaries calling for an end to the riots," Jerusalem District Police Commander Major General Aharon Franco said. "There is no sane element in the ultra-Orthodox community that has stood up and spoke out against this phenomenon. Someone needs to wake up because eventually people will get hurt."

In a press briefing, Franco said police officers have been deployed in force in recent weeks because of the haredi protest over the opening of city parking lots on Shabbat. "It started there, and escalated in the past 24 hours to the point of violence against motorists and vandalism."

Police officials are preparing for the possibility of more riots ahead of the weekend, either in connection with the haredi mother's arrest or with the parking dispute.
 
Addressing the so-called "starving mother" affair, the senior official said police had "decisive evidence" in the case. He added that the Orthodox mother suspected of starving her three-year-old son "could have been released last week on restrictive conditions had the family and her attorney not insisted on objecting to a psychiatric examination."

Franco also said the government was not doing enough to contain the riots, noting that "we are talking about our capital, and not enough had been done on the national level to calm the situation."

As I've pointed out many times before, haredi leaders and gedolim want these riots.  Rabbi Elyashiv and other haredi gedolim continue to send people out to the streets to "demonstrate" knowing violence has happened and will continue to happen.

The responsibility for this violence lies as much with Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv as it does with haredi street thugs – and it always has.

Comments

[steve]

RABBIS STERNBUCH AND FINKEL HAVE STEPPED UP, NOW WE NEED THE REST OF THEM TO:

23 Tammuz 5769

Lechol bnei hayeshiva, ain lehimotzei klal bechol asar hahafganos, lelo yotzeh min haklal velelo shum

horaas heter.

Nosson Tzvi Finkel

Translation:

To all the bnei hayeshiva,

No one is to be found in any of the locations of the protests, without any exception or leniency.

Nosson Tzvi Finkel

[Shmarya]

Rabbi Finkel is a nice man. He's also an American and he largely – although not completely – keeps out of haredi politics.

But notice this public appeal, which only forbids their own students from being near the riots, does not condemn the riots or the rioters. And the statement was not issued until long after the riots started, and only after massive public condemnation of haredim.

[Just a Goy]

I came across this article on the web, and came away absolutely dumbfounded...

When reporting abuse is permitted - Gedolim should not do it

DANIEL EIDENSOHN - July 2, 2009

Rav Tzvi Gartner (Yeshurun 15 page 637) notes that the Maharam Shick (C.M. 50) was asked about the case of someone’s brother who had died suddenly and the deceased brother’s wife was suspected to having poisoned her husband. There was much circumstantial evidence and a partial confession that she had in fact murdered her husband. Gedolim wrote to the Maharam Shick that they were astonished why he was silent when it was obviously a mitzva to destroy evil. He replied that he was silent because there weren’t any witnesses to the killing and even if she had in fact poisoned her husband it was only gramma (indirect killing). Therefore according to the Torah she was not liable to the death penalty. Consequently she should not be reported to the secular justice system since they make judgments based on confessions (which is not accord with Torah law). However the Maharam Shick ultimately decided that it was permitted to report her to the police based on the gemora (Bava Metzia 83b) concerning R’ Eliezer ben R’ Shimon who reported Jewish thieves to the government because he was authorized by the king. However the Maharam Shick noted that while reporting her was definitely permitted according the halacha, but the gemora in Bava Metzia also indicated that it was inappropriate for gedolim to be involved in reporting others to the secular authorities. He noted that this was also the view of the Rashba that was cited by the Beis Yosef in Choshen Mishpat 338. An even greater proof that it is not desirable to inform on others to the secular authorities - even when there is a possible danger not to report - is found in the Rambam (Hilchos Yesodei HaTorah 5:5). Rambam rules that if non‑Jews have specified that they are looking for a certain Jew and that they will kill all the Jews unless he is handed over to them - if that Jew is deserving of the death penalty he can be given to them to save the others. However the Rambam notes that this halacha is not to be taught in advance. This is also the view of the Yerushalmi (Terumos 8:4) which says that even though informing is permitted in this case but it shouldn’t be done by pious people…. Therefore the Maharam Shick concluded that even though one can not protest if other’s inform the police in these cases because they are following the halacha and they have many poskim to rely on – nevertheless gedolim should not actively involve themselves in reporting but should rather do nothing.

http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/07/when-reporting-abuse-is-permitted.html

[state of disgust]

If they are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem!

[steve]

Excellent article by Naomi Ragen:

Time to Extend Israeli Law to Meah Shearim

http://archive.mail-list.com/naomiragen/msg01741.html

[Reader]

The government just might hand these areas over to the PA and there will be no more hareidi riots, guaranteed.

[steve]

Pinny Lipshitz of the Yated attacks Rabbi Horowitz in his latest screed:

http://matzav.com/%e2%80%9cshabbos-shabbos%e2%80%9d/#more-12200

Religious Apologists

The problem is compounded when religious people who ought to know better get swept up in the propaganda. People who have never witnessed a protest over the desecration of Shabbos allow themselves to be manipulated by media hype. They encourage other frum Jews to write letters to the secular media decrying the objectionable behavior of their fellow chareidim. They rush to express sympathy for secular Israelis who are lobbying for a new parking lot-right opposite the walls of Yerushalayim.

Rabbis who ought to know better feed the media one-liners against the violent extremists, as if they constitute a sizeable camp. They issue sharp indictments which reinforce the stereotype of Orthodox Jews as an archaic, intolerant bunch of people

[Reader]

The reason the rabbanim do not speak out against the riots is because if they do, they might get hurt.
A few years ago (I believe it was R. Elyashiv, but I may be wrong) issued what his followers believed was an overly lenient ruling. They vandalized his car in some way, I don't remember exactly, it was a long time ago.
Which begs the question - who controls whom?

[DK]

They vandalized his car in some way, I don't remember exactly, it was a long time ago.
Which begs the question - who controls whom?

The Zealots aren't Eliyashiv's followers. They are Chassidim.

[MisterApikoros]

Where were the Muslim imams in the USA who condemned the 9/11 attacks? They were some, to be sure, but most were silent, especially when it came to turning in bad guys.

[Reader]

To: DK
"The Zealots aren't Eliyashiv's followers. They are Chassidim."

It doesn't matter whose followers they are.
My point was that the followers intimidate the leaders.

I've just found it:
"Let us recall, for example, how a number of years ago Rav Elyashiv’s car was attacked by stone-throwing zealots who were upset about one of his positions."

http://www.vosizneias.com/34474/2009/07/02/new-york-rabbi-hoffman-violent-jerusalem-hafganot-is-destroying-klal-yisroel/

[David Willig]

I remember Rav MD Tendler sying that when jes father in law, (Rav Moshe Feinstein ZTL') issued a psak that the chareidin thought was too lenient, he was subject to getting harassing phone calls at all hours of the night. It makes me wonder if all these chumros of the past 30 years are honest halachic opinions, or cowardly responses to perceived personal threats.

[Ben]

The Silence of Gadolim is Deafening.

[Ben]

I am an Orthodox Jew, who begins to question entire system. Is it possible that these men are not truthfull in all bunch of other things as well? If they are, what are the things that I can trust them and what are the ones that I can not?

[Dr. Dave]

Ben -

Trust in G-d.

Trust in the brain he gave you.

Abraham and Moses argued with G-d.

Trust Rabbis insofar as your intellect tells you to.

Rabbis are no better nor holier than you. Perhaps more learned.

Learn. Go to the sources, the Torah, Gemara, Rambam, Turim, Shulchan Aruch.

Then use your own brain.

[Ben]

Dr.Dave, but this very logical approach will make anyone apikoyros. It is said that one have to find himself a rav and then follow him even if he says that left is right and right is left, he, and not you own knowledge, is to be trusted.

Entire system stands of trust and obeyance of rabbinical authority and it will be destroyed as soon as everyone will begin make decisions for himself.

What about trust in seforim written by the holy rabbis of the past. Is this trust also to be selective? Then what would be diffence between the orthodox and the reform?

[Dr. Dave]

If you noticed, I stated that you should go to the writings of the true Gedolim of the past. This would be as recent as Rav Moshe Feinstein and his tshuvot.

Find a Rav, but use your own mind.
Discard any BS you are bing fed.

A talmudic example would be Rabbi Meir who still learned from Acher (Elisha ben Avuya), after he became an apostate (an epicurean to be exact). The gemara in Chagiga apx. daf 15 discusses their relationship.

Rabbi Meir would "eat the fruit and discard the rind" of Acher's teaching.

While today we are not on Rabbi Meir's level, still use your mind. That's why G-d gave it to you!!!

[Dave Marshall]

Ben, what you and Dr. Dave are discussing is exactly what the Karaites do, except they don't study much Talmud (ha ha!)
However they do Very Intensively study the Tanach, and I mean Very Intensively and the Entire Tanach. I guess as an Orthodox Jew, you'd call them apikoros, but on the other hand they do believe in Torah mi'Sinai, Unlike Reform and Conservative.
Mind you I am loyal to my rabbinic ancestry (5 rabbis from Iraq in the 19th century), so I am not planning on becoming a Karaite, but it's worth reading some Karaite literature. By the way they do keep kashrut (well, Rabbi Yose the Galilean style), and they do not accept gay rabbis/ hakhamim, so they're already way ahead of Conservative and Reform.