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July 07, 2009

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MisterApikoros

When I first discovered this blog, I thought Shmarya was cherry-picking; the Hasidim and non-Hasidic ultra-Orthodox couldn't be this incredibly stupid.

Then, I started reading Vos iz Neias, and if anything, Shmarya underestimated the idiocy of the zillion "anonymous" posters who (1) totally defend even the most ridiculous of the ultra-Orthodox practice, and who curse other Jews who don't, and (2) make apologies for stupid and criminal behavior by Jews because (in their eyes) doing otherwise constitutes "treason" to the Jewish race.

Dr. Dave

Just toss out all the letters from these Israeli "gedolim" schnorring for money.

Cut them off.

alternative childcare

MrA: This is all true, but why are you so incensed? You have frequently stated that you and all your siblings intermarried and never even considered conversion for the spouses or children?

pierre

I know an older couple who were gerim and their kids who made aliyah recently, I should ask how it went for them.

MisterApikoros

This issue isn't just about conversion. It's about some idiot 85-year-old mamzer calling himself a rabbi setting himself up as Pope.

If I wanted a Pope, I've have converted to Catholicism long ago.

Nigritude Ultramarine

Too bad Ruth doesn't meet these requirements. I say revoke her conversion just to be sure.

What a bunch of asshats.

Yosef ben Matitya

well, isn't it what we have been saying for years now:
Bereishis 13:13
יג ואנשי סדם, רעים וחטאים, ליה-ה, מאד

Itzik

Rabbi Freuendel and others in the RCA made a very big mistake when they gave away *any* of their autonomy. The Chief Rabbinate itself will never honor its side of the agreement because its very structure doesn't allow it to do so. Plus other government structures like the Interior Ministry are not bound by it in the first place.

Never make a deal with the devil. That's what the Israeli Chief Rabbinate is.

PulpitRabbi

Rabbi Freuendel and others in the RCA made a very big mistake when they gave away *any* of their autonomy. The Chief Rabbinate itself will never honor its side of the agreement because its very structure doesn't allow it to do so. Plus other government structures like the Interior Ministry are not bound by it in the first place.

Read the quote, Rabbi Freundel said that the problem is that it is NOT the Chief Rabbinate that is involved here; it's the Interior Ministry.

Hometown Postville

Sounds like they are a step and a half away from being as "selective" as another madman in history, Hitler.

MisterApikoros

Be careful, Hometown. Don't even mention that name or the self-appointed Simon Wiesenthal of this blog, Alternative Childcare, will be calling you a Nazi.

BTW, I totally agree with you. And the comparison is spot on.

justayid

"Israel does not recognize non-Orthodox conversions unless they are conducted abroad. Orthodox conversions are accepted only if they are performed by one of nine specific rabbinical courts in the United States."


Wait, what? The above reads as if there are more restrictions on O rabbis than C. Is there perhaps some confusion?

Shmarya

The Rabbinute does not recognize non-Orthodox conversions no matter where they're done. So, whatever the State does doesn't matter.

Alternative Childcare

MrA, of course you agree whenever anyone uses the Nazi term. Its your life's fascination, attacking Jews, threatening them with violence, using very foul language, and quoting all sorts of Nazi documents on Jewish sites. There is not a single posting of yours on this site that doesn't fit this description.

On the other hand, Hometown Postville has always appeared as someone who wants to learn about the Jewish world, and I've not come across any violent or offensive statements from him.

Yonah

Justayid - it matters for aliyah. I believe Conservative and Reform gerim can make aliyah as Jews, but Orthodox ones have to be recognised by those specific batei din.

MisterApikoros

From now on, AC/DC, I'm gonna simply take the advice of those who are more level-headed than I and ignore your posts.

ah-pee-chorus

the article left out the most important fact. she has not passed her dirty diaper throwing class. only then will she know the joy of haredi life.

kathiego

Is that really correct? Conservative and Reform can make aliyah while the frumsters are stuck in a bad place waiting years in line for citizenship? And apc don't forget the class in spitting, rock throwing, trash burning and causing a "ruckus". So if a Conservative or a Reform wanted to make Aliyah, go to Israel and live they could be citizens or no? Someone clear up my confusion. Thanks. :)

Yonah

Kathiego, from my understanding you can live as a citizen, it's just that you're screwed if you need a marriage/divorce/membership in most shuls/etc. It's because Reform and Conservative movements are more or less centralised, so they internally approve everybody who converted under their auspices. But what central organisation will vouch for an Orthodox ger? So they need approval from the Rabbinut or some batei din approved by them.

I could be completely wrong. I've heard tha almost nobody knows the real law regarding this.

ah-pee-chorus

kathiego : the spitting, rock throwing, and trash burning classes are for the males. a woman's role is limited to the dirty diapers.

kathiego

Let's say if someone who was reform or conservative moves to Israel, right? and then, God forbid, their husband or wife dies and later on, they wish to marry someone else who is also the same milieu they are such as marrying another reform or conservative. Could they get married or no? Or do they have to convert to Orthodox but neither of them is Orthodox... ?? What if they want to marry someone that's not recognized by the Charedi such as Modern Orthodox? Thank you.

Yonah

Not that I'm an expert, and someone please correct me if I'm missing something, but...

If the person they want to marry is another non-Rabbinut-recognised convert, it's theoretically okay, because they're both "not Jewish" (sigh) and so fall out of the Rabbinut's jurisdiction. The new problem is, there is no civil marriage, so who's going to perform it? Jewish is out, because if you're "gentile" you can't have a Jewish marriage, which is controlled by the Rabbinut. Christian and Muslim are both obviously out also. So I guess you'd have to go outside the country anyway to get a marriage recognised.

If the person they want to marry was born Jewish, they can't unless the convert re-converts.

kathiego

Yonah thank you. At that point I guess it would be off to Cypress or somewhere.

Yonah

Yeah, I guess. :(

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